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03 December 2015 @ 11:50 pm
7.08 - 'Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me' (The Vampire Diaries)  
I know?! This is up so early! Shocking!

I gotta start with my absolutely favorite scene. Oh man, Stefan's face during the scene with Caroline literally had me hitting the pause button so I could laugh out loud without missing dialogue. The way he kept turning his head slightly to look at her and then look away, the 'WTF?" expression on his face, in his eyes was just absolutely hilarious. Top-notch there by Paul Wesley. LOVED IT! I also did really love his heartwarming scene with Lily because it's so, so, so, soooooooo completely Stefan in every way possible. And it's something I do love about Stefan so very much.

Also, it's a big part of how he is in the place he is now with Damon because he is able to forgive those who've hurt him, tried to hurt him, hurt those he loved, etc., etc., because as awesome as Damon is and as much as we all know he *does* love Stefan, still Damon has done some terrible things to Stefan deliberately to hurt him. (I make this distinction because, yes, Stefan has hurt Damon A LOT as well, but a good, good chunk of that has actually not been deliberate just Stefan's immaturity, head-in-the-sand mentality, inability to see the big picture, and big brother blinders issues.)

On the flip side, I also really did love Damon's heartbreaking scene with Lily because it was so, so, soooooo completely Damon in every way possible. He will be harsh, he will make snide, snarky comments even when someone is being vulnerable; he will be a complete dick to that person. I also was 100% there for Damon giving Lily not-so-nice parting words on her way to sleepy-time forever. I stand by what I said after the last episode, Lily abandoned her boys, and then when she had opportunity after opportunity (before 1912 and after 2013—I think that's the year they're on now, LOL!) to repair the damage. Instead she stayed away, or she repudiated them, she took away the love of Damon's life, she kidnapped and had Stefan's girlfriend tortured. She stole their home, pretty much destroyed their town—which they do both love—all for this family that she considers her real one as opposed to her sons.

My only problem was that with her deciding suddenly and so quickly to turn on Julian and join forces with her sons in the last episode and this one, with all of the sweet goodbyes to Lily, with Damon apologizing "Three Years From Now" to someone who he thought was "mom" that we're supposed to agree with Stefan and not Damon. And I'm not saying this in terms of Saint Stefan vs. Demon Damon as in Stefan's way is the "right" way and Damon's is the "wrong." Rather that we, the viewers, are supposed to see Lily as some sort of heroine that we're supposed to be feeling sympathy for here. That when Damon repudiates her literally the moments before her death, we're supposed to think that Damon will regret this and that Lily deserved his forgiveness... and the future final scene confirmed that. Here's where we get to my problem: Lily is not deserving of sympathy or forgiveness from either of her sons, *especially* Damon because of HER actions that were deliberately designed post-reintroduction into this world to hurt—REALLY HURT—her sons.

I don't know what I'm supposed to think honestly, though, because we were reminded of what Lily is doing to Damon (re: Elena being kept from him). Plus, while they've been building up to making Lily sympathetic, she was nowhere there... but, yeah, I don't know. Did the show expect us to find her sympathetic here? I really do think we were supposed to (because of the Lily/Stefan discussion and because of Damon's future apology), but Lily hasn't done NEARLY enough to deserve the audience to be on her side. And frankly Annie Wersching's worst acting tic came into play the last few episodes—the wide-eyed, overly anxious, damsel-in-distress look—that it made Lily more annoying rather than endearing, but hey, maybe that's just me and my already-stated dislike of the style of the actress.

On that note, thanks to an excellent point by tj2013 below in the comments, I completely understand Damon's future apology now and it breaks my heart. As much as I adore Damon and tend to see things from a Damon-point-of-view often enough, I think that my dislike of Wersching and the lack of sympathy-build-up for the character kept my focus so thoroughly on her actions and Damon's justification that I didn't think of the emotional consequences it would have on Damon's psyche.

Plus, I completely ignored the earlier comment in the scene between Stefan and Lily where he told her that Damon would eventually forgive her, but that he just needed time. Also, how Stefan easily brushed away the idea that Damon was incapable of forgiving her because of the look in his eyes. Using Stefan's history with Damon and us knowing Damon's volatile nature, and how, yes, time does and can heal his wounds—especially how that forgiving process would go much faster once Elena is back in the picture because of the effect that Elena has on Damon, and how she allows him to accept the better angel of his nature—was a beautifully subtle way of showing that Damon would indeed forgive her. He just needed time.

However, looking at the "As I Lay Dying" finale comparison (as tj2013 did), this time there was no time to give. One has to think that had Elena been around—ironically for Lily's hopes and dreams of forgiveness, she's not because of Lily—Elena could have reminded him of that. Had Elena been there with Damon at Lily's end, even now so close to her repudiation time and time again of her boys, Elena would have been able to get through to him in a way that not only could no one else, but also because no one else would really think to try. So instead because Lily took Elena away from Damon—that being the main reason that Damon can't forgive her now—he has no one there who will or can push him to see why he should have forgiven Lily not for Lily, but for himself. Oh, Damon.

But, hey, maybe that future apology to not!Mom will help ease his conscience a bit. Speaking of... I will say it was a good fake-out on her death. I was hoping half-way through the episode that she would die, but then was all like 'Damn, we saw her three years from now, she's still around.' So that was good. (Although, I did have a stray thought where "Mom" from the future was somehow not really her, so good on me!) Also good? At least she's now gone. And I fully believe that Damon's future apology comes more from his love for Stefan and their bond than anything about Lily—who, I'm sorry (not sorry)—doesn't deserve it.

I do have sympathy for poor Enzo, though. Man, for such a good-looking, finely-accented, charming (albeit-killing-like with all the vampireness and what-not) guy, he sure has tough luck with the ladies (and gent). OK, so I have to say it, I just loved how Matt told Enzo "Damon didn't want you. Lily didn't want you..." because it equated Damon and Lily as people who didn't want Enzo, but whom he wanted. And, yeah, I always kinda thought that maybe there was some kind of pansexual love there going from Enzo to Damon. I'll just take that line as confirmation. As for the rest of their conversation, I admired how Matt kept his cool, and because of that, and the look he was giving Enzo, I figured that he had something up his sleeve.

I do love what they've done with Matt in terms of his character and where he is/who he is... I just want to see more of him. (And I want him to get some happiness, some love... damnit! I miss my Matt and Rebekah beautiful, blond promise!) Maybe this will be the beginning of that more: Matt and his mysterious helpers.

By the way, completely unspoiled here (you all know that, of course), but I think his two helpers are Jeremy and Tyler. If they're not, OK, new characters. If they are... yay! BB!JEREMY!! Jeremy/Damon scenes pretty please!! GIVE TO ME! Oh, and some closure with Jeremy and Bonnie would be nice too. And, yeah, Tyler's reaction to Caroline being pregnant would be pretty HI-larious. Of course, I'm totes jumping ahead of myself here, but yeah, I hope it's them! (It's probably not. Don't spoil me either way if you know!)

I say Tyler's reaction would be "HI-larious," but that so wouldn't be the case if they were still together. Ugh, I shudder to think of how badly that would go down. Fortunately, he and Caroline are totally dunzo, so we just had Stefan's reaction. Which was TOTES HI-larious, and then super-duper sweet.* And it had me thinking that I don't want to see Caroline give up Stefan for the unborn babies magically stored in her womb because that's what's gonna happen... thanks, Lily for making that clear with your little pep talk! *sigh* Noooooo! Why can't Stefan and Caroline just be shiny, happy people? Why can't I have one couple onscreen together that I love and want to watch together.

* I was originally going to add something in here about their first mutual "I love you's" being over the phone like Damon/Elena and how it was a parallel, and one that actually bothered me a little bit because that did sorta become Damon and Elena's thing. However, recalling earlier Stefan and Caroline scenes, I'm OK with it, because Stefan and Caroline have both made it crystal clear to the other that they love each other (with their lists of reasons why loving you has made me better—which is so them). So, this was more of them finally just saying the words to each other at the same time. It was different with Damon and Elena. Still close enough though that I would have preferred a face-to-face with them to differentiate it more not just as a Damon/Elena fan (again, their thing), but also as a Stefan/Caroline fan because they have their thing too. And I love them.

Unlike—ugh—Nora and Mary Louise. So boring. *sigh* (And that ring was ugly, just saying.) But I still stand by my earlier thought—Mary Louise is more interesting and has more potential than Nora. Nora pretends to be the rebel, but really she just follows the lead of what she's supposed to do. Mary Louise is the one who actually goes against the grain... and I figure it has probably gotten her into trouble, caused major issues in the past which is why she tries to keep things so buttoned-down. She was SO MUCH MORE INTERESTING in her scenes with Julian—the earlier ones in retrospect—than she ever has been with Nora. I honestly expect nothing to happen with Nora, but Mary Louise, she's a wild card.

I have to admit that Julian hadn’t done much for me at all prior to his final scene in this episode. When we realized that he'd unlinked him and Lily not to stave off some new wicked plan, or because he wanted to be so many steps ahead of the Salvatore boys. Nope, he did it because he knew that they were after them and that they really possibly might not care if Lily lived or died so he unlinked them to keep her safe. After all that, it turned out the guy actually did love Lily and valued her life above his own. Still doesn't mean he wasn't a sadistic asswipe. But now there's more depth to the character and I really am curious to see what's going to happen with him and the rest of the Heretics.

And that needs to happen because it's about time things start kicking it into high gear with the Heretics. Will Beau join forces with Valerie and our team? Or will he stick with Julian and Mary Louise? On that note will Mary Louise stick with Julian after his whole shenanigans inadvertently caused Lily's death? And what will Nora do? I hope things start to get hopping because frankly, Lordy, I was not feeling the Lily/Julian scenes (well, those are done with), the Mary Louise/Nora stuff (please, be done with... just bring in new people for them—these actresses have ZERO chemistry and I don't buy that they love each other at ALL) and thus the majority of the first half of the episode. We won't even touch Enzo and Lily (thankfully done, done, done!)

But at least he's finally spending time with peeps who want him! LOL!

Not that Bonnie was one of them tonight! I ♥ her, but I didn't miss Miss Bennett in this episode. I don't really see where she would have fit in without being just kinda shoe-horned in. I understood why she got the night off. However, Alaric did feel like he was missed. He could have been used perhaps helping Matt—maybe Caroline could have said to Matt during their conversation that she mentioned the IV'd bodies situation to Ric and he needs to keep his mind off of the crazy pregnancy and Not!Jo/Florence Nightingale's re-death, so could Matt use his help? Then we could have had Matt and Alaric with Enzo which would have had the bonus of bringing up the Caroline pregnancy naturally (because it would SOOOO come up) and Enzo would find out that way. Say Matt said: "Damon didn't want you, Caroline didn't, neither does Lily."

Plus, we would have seen some of the Enzo/Alaric interplay which would have been great since we found out last season that Matt Davis and Michael Malarkey have great chemistry. Boom! You've now tied in the IV'd bodies, Caroline's pregnancy, Enzo's lovelorn-emotions for Lily/Salvatore Boys plot all together and Alaric is now neatly involved in the two other big stories going along. He's no longer confined to his sad little universe of Alaric—Jo's boyfriend/fiancé/almost-husband/father-of-her-twins—and that's all he shall be forevermore. So, yeah, I really think that Alaric should have been in this episode, but, oh well. Perhaps, possibly, probably, they have other plans. I will have faith.

OK just a few randoms —

- AHA! So now we know what the point of the IV'd peeps was... minions and/or snacks for Nora and Mary Louise' anniversary. Julian goes all, doesn’t he? (Eh, gotta admit, it's a week underwhelming.)

- Boy, oh, boy, will Enzo NOT be happy when he gets away from Matt's helpers to find out that Lily is dead. Oh wells.

- I think I said aloud about five times while watching this one: "He's so good looking." I'll let you guess who. (A hint: He was leaning so very beautifully for almost an entire scene. Uh huh.)

- Damon had a few fantastic one-liners (as always). My favorite was the one to Lily about why he wasn't going with the 'stake mom' plan: "Because Stefan's a momma's boy and I don't want to get the silent treatment for the next century." LMAO!

- Speaking of the 'stake mom' plan, Damon's constant iterations that it was easiest, simple plan and how he kept bringing it up as an option was hilarious.

- Blah, blah, blah, 'Three Years From Now...' who is this mysterious hunter? Who knows? I don't, and these snippets are frustrating, not in a good cliffhanger way, but in an annoying 'God, get on with it!' way.

- OK, I will say something positive about Mary Louise and Nora: Their white/black outfits were gorgeous at their party. Oh, and if they had an ounce of chemistry, the proposal scene with the poetry and all of that would have been really lovely. Alas, I felt nothing. But, damn, I never stopped going 'ooh! pretty!' about their outfits.

- So Beau was a singer. OK.

- I love Matt Donovan. Just saying.

- Speaking of Matt... the fact that he knew that Damon didn't want Enzo, I'm using as proof that Matt and Damon have had discussions off-screen where Enzo has come up. That's my head canon, damnit, and I'm sticking to it!

- Elena mention from Caroline via another diary entry! Elena as Damon's soulmate (even if her name wasn't said)! I love it... eight episodes in and we're still getting Elena and Damon/Elena=THE TRUEST LOVE EVA! Woohoo, baby!

Not the bestest episode simply because I didn't care at all about Julian/Lily, Lily living/dying/getting forgiveness/whatever, Mary Louise/Nora, but the mess that's left behind looks like it can be delicious, delicious fun. And, as always, Damon, Stefan, Caroline and Matt were awesome-sauce. So one more episode to go (I believe) of the year and in this time slot. OK, then!
 
 
 
Bogwitchbogwitch on December 4th, 2015 08:04 am (UTC)
Aside from the two flashforwards and Damon. This ep bored me.
Arabian: Caroline06arabian on December 4th, 2015 03:18 pm (UTC)
The first half I could definitely understand. Waaaay too much Nora/Mary Louise and Lily/Julian with just smaller scenes of Damon, Stefan, Caroline, Enzo, Matt (I know, not for you), but still "our" characters. Just too top-heavy with the Heretics by far in the first half. I did like the episode overall and I still think that watching the whole season together it will play out stronger--these type of episodes--still, yeah, I will say I'm not terribly surprised by this comment.
tj2013tj2013 on December 4th, 2015 11:53 am (UTC)
Wow, you were fast! Great recap, thank you as always!

"Not the bestest episode simply because I didn't care at all about Julian/Lily, Lily living/dying/getting forgiveness/whatever, Mary Louise/Nora," THIS

And THIS:"but the mess that's left behind looks like it can be delicious, delicious fun"

Loved the Stefan-Caroline Scene, too, Stefan's expressions were hilarious. I was laughing so hard.

I know why Damon didn't forgive Lily, and I think she deserved it. But I do feel sorry for him, since this decision is going to haunt him. Compare it to2x22, when Damon asked Elena for her forgiveness, and she told him she needed a lot of time, and he knew that he did't have that time. Damon and Elena got another chance. Damon and his mother never will, and although I am sure Stefan will stand by him and Damon's contempt was justified, that's something Damon will have to carry on his shoulders for the rest of his life.

Enzo kissing Lily? That was weird. I liked the scene as such, only not with these two. I still see Enzo as on of Lils's surrogate sons.

Another DE/SC parallel: first "I love you" over the phone. Nice :-)

Yes, plese let it by Jeremy and Tyler. I had the same thought, LOL.

So was Julian responsible somehow for Beau loosing his tongue? I kinda got the impression that Julian had put on this song to torment Beau. But maybe I am just imagining things.
Arabian: Damon & Elena40arabian on December 4th, 2015 03:38 pm (UTC)
Re: the "I love you" over the phone because of your comment, I went back and added this to the post.
    I was originally going to add something in here about their first mutual "I love you's" being over the phone like Damon/Elena and how it was a parallel, and one that actually bothered me a little bit because that did sorta become Damon and Elena's thing. However, recalling earlier Stefan and Caroline scenes, I'm OK with it, because Stefan and Caroline have both made it crystal clear to the other that they love each other (with their lists of reasons why loving you has made me better—which is so them). So, this was more of them finally just saying the words to each other at the same time. It was different with Damon and Elena. Still close enough though that I would have preferred a face-to-face with them to differentiate it more not just as a Damon/Elena fan (again, their thing), but also as a Stefan/Caroline fan because they have their thing too. And I love them.
I really had originally intended on putting something there but decided against it. I should have realized that it would be brought up by others as well. Silly me!

But I do feel sorry for him, since this decision is going to haunt him. Compare it to2x22, when Damon asked Elena for her forgiveness, and she told him she needed a lot of time, and he knew that he did't have that time. Damon and Elena got another chance. Damon and his mother never will, and although I am sure Stefan will stand by him and Damon's contempt was justified, that's something Damon will have to carry on his shoulders for the rest of his life.

OK, now this broke my heart. You so got me. I want to go back and watch the Damon and Lily scenes now with this perspective. As much as I adore Damon and tend to see things from a Damon-point-of-view often enough, I think that my dislike of the actress and the lack of sympathy-build-up for the character kept my focus so thoroughly on her actions and Damon's justification that I didn't think of the emotional consequences it would have on Damon's psyche.

Plus, I completely ignored the earlier comment in the scene between Stefan and Lily where he told her that Damon would eventually forgive her, just give him time. Also, how he easily brushed away the idea that Damon was incapable of forgiving her because of the look in his eyes. Using Stefan's history with Damon and knowing Damon's volatile nature, and how, yes, time does and can heal his wounds--especially how that forgiving process would go much faster once Elena is back in the picture because of the effect that Elena has on Damon, and how she allows him to accept the better angel of his nature--was a beautifully subtle way of showing that Damon would indeed forgive her. He just needed time.

However, using your season 02 finale comparison, this time, there was no time to give. One has to think that had Elena been around--ironically for Lily's hopes and dreams of forgiveness because of Lily, she's not--Elena could have reminded him of that. Had Elena been there with Damon at Lily's end, even now so close to her repudiation time and time again of her boys, Elena would have been able to get through to him in a way that not only could no one else, but also because no one else would really think to try.

So instead because Lily took Elena away from Damon--that being the main reason that Damon can't forgive her now--Damon has no one there who will or can push him to see why he should have forgiven Lily not for Lily, but for himself.

Excellent point. (And this is why I still write these posts, the feedback I get from other lovers of the show helps me see things that I have missed and appreciate the show even more.) And, yes, I'm so adding the above to the post, LOL!

So was Julian responsible somehow for Beau losing his tongue?

But why Beau be so loyal to Julian then? I don't know.

Edited at 2015-12-04 03:38 pm (UTC)
tj2013tj2013 on December 6th, 2015 06:20 pm (UTC)
"(And this is why I still write these posts, the feedback I get from other lovers of the show helps me see things that I have missed and appreciate the show even more.) And, yes, I'm so adding the above to the post, LOL!"

Thank you - happy I could add to the discussion. And yes, that's why I love reading your posts - and the comments, too. I am glad people are left that love the show to bits and are having fun analyzing the details.
aurora7948/Celestial Auroraaurora7948 on September 12th, 2016 08:59 am (UTC)
Beau
I ABSOLUTELY think that Julian intentionally put on that song to torment Beau. Julian might, in an indirect way, have something to do with him actually losing his tongue but I can tell you from my point of view (I am an avid singer) that it would be utter torture to never be able to sing again. And it would be even worse to be reminded that I wasn't able to sing. Julian's actual playing of the song could have been brushed off as him only wanting Beau and Lily to her Beau's sweet voice again. But you could tell by the look on Beau's face that it was painful for him, and you could tell by Julian's face that he knew it and had meant for it to be hurtful. It was a very well acted scene in the subtly in those brief facial expressions.

It seems as though everyone's loyalty, with the exception on Mary Louise, was pretty much to "the family" and not to Julian specifically. And the one positive thing that can be said about Lily is that she most definitely LOVED her "family". I'm sure that they all felt that. So when faced with a "choose the person who loves you vs. the person you have fun with" they chose the one that loved them.

Again....with the exception of Mary Louise. I can't wait to find out her backstory. I get the feeling that she will have been abused as a child also. I know, I know, I've been sooooo far behind in my tVD watching that I only JUST watched this episode, so maybe you guys already know what her backstory is. But, from my uninformed-of-future-episodes point of view, Mary Louise just displayed a classic symptom of being an abused child who has grown into a completely insecure adult when she picked the abuser. Forgive me, this will be rambling but it's 5:am here.

Mary Louise shows her insecurities, particularly regarding her relationship with Nora, multiple times over the course of the last 5-6 episodes. These examples include her super overprotective reaction to Caroline's laughing at Nora's Queen Victoria dress, her indignation when Nora rips the front of her devil costume, her spoken fear that Nora will leave her. The list goes on. Mary Louise chose Julian because she is insecure and, as stated, he spoils her rotten. Lily, while loving her family, did not spoil them. She had rules and expectations and she held them to those expectations. Julian was a rule breaker. But he seemed to have always included Mary Louise in on those rule breaking sessions, thereby creating a "special" bond with her. Or at least making her feel like it was a special bond because she was the only one he shared his "secrets" with (e.x. the maid during the "peace party"). Who knows how many more instances of shared rule breaking happened before Mary Louise and the family were trapped in the prison world. But that's why she went to him about her proposal. She felt they had a special bond (though it's really that he's manipulating someone who is insecure and therefore easy to manipulate) and he spoiled her more with the gaudy ring....but only after making her feel completely insecure! He tells her that the ring she picked isn't good enough and then even casts doubt "jokingly" on whether or not Nora will say yes because the ring is so inadequate. Mary Louise is so desperate for affection that she will do just about anything to win Julian's approval.

You might ask why Julian would bother with Mary Louise but I think it's been pretty well demonstrated at this point that Julian LOVES having power over people (most abusive manipulators do). And Mary Louise has power of her own but, by manipulating her, Julian can use her power in any way he likes.
Mattghidorah15 on December 4th, 2015 06:34 pm (UTC)
Dang it, how do you keep managing to cover everything? You ought to market your services. :P

I, too, see both sides of the issue with Damon refusing to forgive Lily, only to come to regret it in the future. Mind you, I saw the original version of your post where you didn't get why we should feel bad about his refusal, and I was just nodding in complete agreement - it felt off in the episode. But after tj's input, I get it. It's not about Lily, who indeed betrayed and hurt him too much for forgiveness to come that quickly - it's about Damon's ongoing healing. As you've noted, just because Stefan is better able to forgive her doesn't mean his brother is wrong, but it's still going to weigh on Damon's psyche.

Of course, I don't begrudge Beau or Nora or especially Valerie for their goodbyes to Lily - they needed to do it. And while you may prefer Mary Louise as a dynamic character, I can't agree. Figures it'd take this chain of events for me to finally like Nora - and yes, they should stay broken up, no question about that. Oh, and now Julian is bound to go on some rampage of grief. I, too, will give him a bit of credit that he actually loved Lily enough to not want her to die with him. It makes things more interesting - and it gives him a leg up on Giuseppe, I think.

I still have faith in Stefan and Caroline to come back together in the future, and I didn't mind the phone parallel at all - but it's fine if you did for a second. ;) I, too, wish Alaric had been able to show up, even if it was just for one scene, and I didn't think Bonnie's absence really hurt the episode.

As for Matt...well, I get your defense of him and I do sympathize with his feeling so helpless, but I don't see this new plotline with his mysterious allies ending well for him. It looks to me like he's slowly losing his grip on his sanity - another reason to feel bad for him, yes, but also a reason to be worried on just general principle. I can't imagine it'll be pretty for Enzo, either - though at least he did get to give Lily some sort of goodbye (and thank God he'll never kiss her again).

And, as always, the mention of Elena tugs at my heartstrings. It'll be such a relief when we eventually see her again. :)
jairem08jairem08 on December 8th, 2015 05:34 pm (UTC)
Since I still haven't watched and am saving it for when the long hiatus upon us I have really not much to analyse or comment on yet. I just want to put here that i enjoy and appreciate your posts and always look forward to reading them and all the other comments here.
Arabian: Damon04arabian on December 9th, 2015 03:16 pm (UTC)
One more episode (this week's) and then we have the winter hiatus, I believe, so you'll be able to watch the first batch of episodes. I'll let you know. I'm glad you've been enjoying the write-ups. :)
tj2013tj2013 on December 9th, 2015 10:18 am (UTC)
Air date TVD
I've read that after the winter hiatus TVD (and TO) are being moved to Friday night. Not sure what that means. Since I'm not living in the US an thus never watch live, I have no idea - is that a good sign? Or a sign the series is going to end soon? Or is that perfectly normal?

Edited at 2015-12-09 10:19 am (UTC)
Arabian: Stefan02arabian on December 9th, 2015 03:15 pm (UTC)
Re: Air date TVD
Friday's becoming OK for supernatural type shows, but it's not the best night for TV. It could be OK for TVD, and it won't have the rough competition it's had all along. It could be good, it could be bad. It could do better actually. Or it could mean the end of the show after this season. We'll know after the ratings come in.
aurora7948/Celestial Auroraaurora7948 on September 12th, 2016 09:04 am (UTC)
S/C Split?!?!? C & R WTF???
BTW, am I the only one who, when watching this episode, is HEARTBROKEN that Caroline and Stefan aren't together in the future?! I can NOT see her and Ric AT ALL. I mean, obviously, Stefan still cares for Caroline. He says so. But it's just kind of crappy that they spent all this time building them up and then, while we're supposed to be enjoying their budding relationship, we can't because they've shown us that the characters aren't together anymore. What the hell?!?!

And I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE him and Valerie. It seems so contrived and forced. Like the writers just needed to keep her involved and that was the easy way to do it while also breaking up everyone's other OTP to create drama. They already broke up E/D, not by choice but still, so there isn't any drama in that.



Edited at 2016-09-12 09:07 am (UTC)
Arabian: Caroline09arabian on February 24th, 2017 04:29 pm (UTC)
RE: S/C Split?!?!? C & R WTF???
Oh, I don't think you were the only one. I guess I just wasn't expecting them to be together at that point, but there was the possibility that things would change.
(Anonymous) on February 20th, 2017 10:43 am (UTC)
catching-up (slowly but surely ;)
”That when Damon repudiates her literally the moments before her death, we're supposed to think that Damon will regret this and that Lily deserved his forgiveness.” - I actually felt a little differently about this. Yes, I felt like we were supposed to think that Damon will regret this, but not because Lily deserved his forgiveness. We knew Damon was going to regret this because we know Damon. We know that he couldn't have said anything else to her, but we also know that he loved her. That's why both scenes, both goodbyes made sense – together. Because both reactions were real and true and in character.

”Did the show expect us to find her sympathetic here?” - I think only to the usual TVD extent, so to speak. In a way, the show always tries to leave room for the viewers to feel sympathetic toward everyone if they so choose. Well, maybe except for Kai.

”Plus, I completely ignored the earlier comment in the scene between Stefan and Lily where he told her that Damon would eventually forgive her, but that he just needed time.” - Yes, exactly. That's a good point.

”So instead because Lily took Elena away from Damon—that being the main reason that Damon can't forgive her now—he has no one there who will or can push him to see why he should have forgiven Lily not for Lily, but for himself.” - Yes, the paradox was tragic and really effective story-wise.

”I have to admit that Julian hadn’t done much for me at all prior to his final scene in this episode.” - Yeah, and the additional thing that bothered me, but I don't know, maybe it was just me, it was that there were some moments when it felt like he was going for Joseph Morgan's way of speaking/looking that just didn't work at all, not just because it didn't work, but because it felt like the actor was doing it deliberately. On that note. I just remembered. There was that moment in 6x19 when Bonnie was talking to Damon and she used THE SAME tone of voice as Elena did in 5x16 during her speech about bending her morals. Kat Graham said the word “AGAIN” in totally TOTALLY the same way (which was VERY distinctive and memorable when Nina did it in 5x16) and it just rubbed me the wrong way, not in terms of Bonnie/Damon, but in terms of Kat as an actress. But to be fair, the way her speech was written kind of led her in that direction, so maybe it wasn't her fault.
Arabian: Bonnie07arabian on February 24th, 2017 04:33 pm (UTC)
RE: catching-up (slowly but surely ;)
I actually felt a little differently about this. Yes, I felt like we were supposed to think that Damon will regret this, but not because Lily deserved his forgiveness. We knew Damon was going to regret this because we know Damon. We know that he couldn't have said anything else to her, but we also know that he loved her. That's why both scenes, both goodbyes made sense – together. Because both reactions were real and true and in character.

Yeah, I really got that from comments and discussion back and forth. I think I let my Lily hate run free there.

”Did the show expect us to find her sympathetic here?” - I think only to the usual TVD extent, so to speak. In a way, the show always tries to leave room for the viewers to feel sympathetic toward everyone if they so choose. Well, maybe except for Kai.

Ah, it goes back to Annie Wersching. She sucks.

”I have to admit that Julian hadn’t done much for me at all prior to his final scene in this episode.” - Yeah, and the additional thing that bothered me, but I don't know, maybe it was just me, it was that there were some moments when it felt like he was going for Joseph Morgan's way of speaking/looking that just didn't work at all, not just because it didn't work, but because it felt like the actor was doing it deliberately. On that note. I just remembered. There was that moment in 6x19 when Bonnie was talking to Damon and she used THE SAME tone of voice as Elena did in 5x16 during her speech about bending her morals. Kat Graham said the word “AGAIN” in totally TOTALLY the same way (which was VERY distinctive and memorable when Nina did it in 5x16) and it just rubbed me the wrong way, not in terms of Bonnie/Damon, but in terms of Kat as an actress. But to be fair, the way her speech was written kind of led her in that direction, so maybe it wasn't her fault.

I notice that you tend to pick up on those things, but they don't ever bother me. As for Bonnie saying it that way, I do think it was either a directorial OR actor's choice and I think either way, it was the right choice. I thought it was right because it basically boiled down to the same principle--giving up something of yourself for/because of Damon. Both Elena and Bonnie love Damon (albeit in different ways) and they put up with so much from him because of that love because they know why he does the stuff he does, and sometimes he pushes them to their breaking point. So, having them both stress that "again" similarly in dealing with Damon was an awesome parallel.