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13 February 2015 @ 06:32 am
6.14 - 'Stay' (The Vampire Diaries)  
Here we go, thoughts on the next episode of The Vampire Diaries. Whee!

So this one made me cry. I'm guessing that's not a huge surprise or anything. I cried when Liz and Damon were talking at her bedside. And I cried during the final scene. And I cried when I rewatched those scenes while grabbing gifs. Yeah, this one was a tear-jerker. Not surprisingly… because, well, Liz. I love Liz. I've loved Liz from the beginning. One of the reasons I was never as terribly fond of Lexi as was practically everyone else is because Lexi was vamping out to kill Sheriff Forbes instead of using her super-vamp speed to run, run, run away off into the night.

Now, back then, I didn't know her as Liz. I barely knew her as Caroline's mom and she was just a pawn to Damon at that point, but Lexi was going to kill her and Damon saved her. And I liked this Sheriff Forbes—who'd I'd already spent a few episodes with— over this new, brash chick who was mean to Damon, was stealing drinks, getting teenagers drunk and got that poor, unknowing bartender fired without caring about consequences.

(Yes, I will take just about any opportunity to throw in a 'Lexi sucks' rant, why do you ask?)

Anyhoo, the point beyond the besides-the-point of Lexi's suckage is that I like Liz and I always have and now she's gone and that also sucks. I don't know why The Vampire Diaries decided to kill Liz off. I've heard that the actress wanted to maybe concentrate more on writing (I know she's written some scripts for The Originals—and the one episode that she co-wrote that I saw was very good) so that could be why. They were being cool and accommodating Marguerite MacIntyre.

Or maybe they felt that for Caroline's arc it was necessary to cut the parental ties. Again, I don't know, I really don't. Perhaps someone who's read some interviews on the subject can enlighten me without sharing spoilers. Obviously, I'm not happy about it, but I can't deny that it has been written very well. Other than some poor direction in a certain episode that shall remain nameless, I can't find any fault in how this story has been told. It felt very,
painfully real. The truth is that life can suck. As Damon so succinctly put it: "Sometimes really terrible things happen to really amazing people."

The Vampire Diaries is *not* a happy show. It's not about good things happening to good people. Let's go back to our oldest characters: Quetsiyah was betrayed by the love of her life and in turn she made him believe that she ripped the heart out of the woman he betrayed her with. The next batch: The youngest Original sibling was killed by a werewolf; Klaus was treated horribly by his "father" for his mother's adulterous sin. In turn, he killed his mother. And he's *still* throwing tantrums about it a millennium later.

Then we have Katherine, she committed the unpardonable sin (in her day and age) of bearing a child out of wedlock at seventeen years old. She then proceeded to flirt her way through England, set up those who were willing to help her to die to save her own skin and then continued to leave a wake of chaos and death through the next five hundred years. Ah, then we have our lovely Salvatore boys: Their father favored one son over the other, clearly something funky happened with Mama Salvatore (you know I'm talking more about that later), they were manipulated by Katherine, and then when they didn't follow Papa Salvatore's path, he shot them to death. And we all know how they have handled the next one hundred and fifty plus years.

Finally, we have our current crew. Elena and Jeremy have had so much death surrounding them it's ridiculous, I'm not going to even attempt an accounting. Tyler, Caroline, Bonnie… oh my Lord, not gonna even bother. Alaric? To date him is to die, and if you don't, you are damn lucky to get out alive and it means that you were near death enough and you got out just in the nick of time (paging Meredith… or rather don't, she's in Alaska!).

The point is that everyone we've met on this show is either a good person who has had bad, very, very bad, no good things happen to them and they've responded by turning worse in kind, or they were bad to begin with and they got just desserts eventually handed to them in the judgment department. Then there is door number three (a) and (b), good people who have bad things happen to them again and again, and reformed bad people who have bad things happen to them again and again, but still manage to find slivers of good among the sucktitude.

That, my friends, is the world of The Vampire Diaries. So, the lovely Sheriff Elizabeth Forbes dying? Not really a surprise. That Caroline managed to keep her wonderfully, fantastically, exceptionally ordinary mother around as long as she did is a blooming miracle. And now she is gone.

There is a part of me that is really mad that Caroline didn't get to be with Liz in those last hours she had, but on the other hand, I absolutely loved the Damon and Liz scenes. They felt so fully earned. I was so upset that we didn't get to see Damon find out that Liz was sick, and as awesome as the waking-up scene was when he flirted cutely with her in the follow-up episode, that was the only scene the two have shared since her illness was revealed. So seeing so many fabulous scenes really highlight and show an appreciation for their friendship was just wonderful.

This *is* a friendship that's been growing since early in season 01 and started to genuinely become real for Damon as early as the final episodes of that season so to allow viewers the opportunity to see it fully get its due was the right thing to do. Liz prodding at Damon to open up about his mother (yes, yes, later, I will get to it, you know I will), but backing off when he wanted her too. Damon agreeing to help her with her cold cases oh so hilariously. Seriously, I rewound that scene, I was laughing so hard. (“Me, me, me, me. Ooh, this was Stefan, no, it was me.”) and then telling her she's a terrible sheriff because she has booze and her shooting back right away that she's a terrible sheriff because one of her best friends (DAMON!) is the perp in half of her cold cases. HAH! The humor mixed in with the seriousness of Liz's condition and the rooting around into Miranda and Grayson's death kept such a perfect balance to their scenes, all of them including their final scene at Liz's bedside.

And my goodness, did that scene just gut me good. It was so beautifully written. Of course the whole episode was. About sixteen minutes into it, I stopped and rewound back to the beginning to see who the writer(s) was/were (thinking that it simply had to be Caroline Dries) and sure enough it was Dries and Brian Young. This episode, my goodness, the writing of every single character, every moment, every scene was just perfection. And that bedside scene with Damon and Liz was but one example. The dialogue:

Liz: If there had been a supernatural reason they died, it would have been easier. There would have been a reason. As it is, it was just an accident. Just a stupid accident.
Damon: No. You wanted someone to blame.
And it just put every scene earlier into perspective, and not just those, but her job and why she worked so hard, so many hours, even to the point where she wasn't with Caroline as much as she should have been. Because if it was supernatural, there was a reason…. There was a bigger reason, an extraordinary *thing* happening here that she had to fight to make this town, her home, her daughter's home safe and today she had this one unfinished fight. For all these years she kept that message from Miranda and if she could have been able to close one more extraordinary case, ordinary Elizabeth Forbes, there would have been a reason for missing out on one more day with Caroline.

And then there was this and Marguerite MacIntyre just broke my heart.

Liz: I did everything right, Damon. I lived a good life, took care of my family. It just…
Damon: I know, sometimes really terrible things happen to really amazing people.
Liz: I have to admit there is a certain amount of peace knowing I'll be one of the only people in Mystic Falls to die an ordinary death. I'm exceptionally ordinary. I'm OK with that. Caroline is anything but. She was meant to be extraordinary. She needs to know how proud I am of her.
Damon: She will. You tell her yourself.
The acting by MacIntyre, the changes in her voice from wistfulness to vehemence to regret to sweetness, but most of all when she spoke of Caroline, my goodness, there was so much love, her voice was just filled with such incredible amounts of love it was absolutely heartbreaking. I can't, I just can't watch this scene without tearing up yet. It's impossible.

And what she said, that she did everything right, it goes back to what I wrote above and how this is not a happy show because it's not because Liz did do it right mostly. She's such a good person. And there was Damon, the right person there to say the right thing because he is her friend and he does understand. And my heartstrings were so tugged, near to the breaking point, but then we had the beautiful touch of Dries and Young keeping that balance so that we didn't fall too deep into the maudlin well of tears, some light humor was brought back into the scene when Liz asked Damon to do her eulogy, but just don't make it dirty, she asked so sweetly and just as sweetly, he told her that he could make no promises. LOL!

The weird thing though, was that at this late (very late) stage in their relationship, it felt like a new twist in their relationship was being added—a maternal bond—because the request came about when Damon told Liz that he flaked out on giving his mother's eulogy. Yet, the really, really weird thing was that it *didn't* feel weird; it felt just right.

So yes, I loved, loved, absolutely loved the Damon and Liz scenes so very much and I was so very thankful for them, for the honoring of the friendship that has been built up over the seasons between these two characters. But, but, but, I wanted Caroline and Liz scenes. But on the other, other hand, I ADORED the Stefan and Caroline scenes. How on earth could I possibly not? Anyone who has been reading my journal for the long haul knows how long I have been shipping Stefan and Caroline. If you have not been reading it for as long as I've been shipping them, a heads-up: From Season 02, Episode 02: "A Brave New World", I haz the proof!

Aside from the Damon/Jeremy final scene, the other charged scene—and knock me over with a feather about this one!—was the Stefan/Caroline one. If a brand new ship did not set sail with a strong wind at its back tonight, I'll be shocked! Matt and Caroline are sweet, but damn, Stefan and Caroline were like whoah! I honestly think that Paul Wesley and Candice Accola's chemistry in that scene is the closest to the Nina/Ian chemistry I've seen on this show. I wonder if there will be any fan reaction and then fallout from it, or if I'm just seeing something that many others won't. I was all for shipping Stefan and Katherine, but I was seriously blown away by that Caroline/Stefan scene. And that final scene with Matt and Caroline just confirmed it because when in Matt's arms and she breathed out to control her veins, I immediately flashed back to her scene with Stefan and there was just no comparison.
Now, I know that some actually started shipping them in season 01 and kudos to those way early-timers, but I did start in episode two of season 02, so I have been waiting a long time for Stefan and Caroline. I thought during most of season 02 and definitely during 03 that it was a crack-ship and it had no hope of setting sail, but in season 04, my hopes began to rise. And then season 05 happened. And now…

 
 
 

There were other awesome Stefan and Caroline moments in the episode that I will discuss, but first can we discuss this? I mean… firstly, what happened to Paul Wesley and his inability to kiss onscreen? Seriously, I am not kidding. I was a mite worried about Stefan and Caroline's first kiss because I have not been, shall we say, erm, entirely impressed with Paul's on-screen kissing talents thus far. I don't know maybe it's because he really does see Nina Dobrev as a sister and therefore when he kisses her he thinks 'Ooh! Cooties!' and it's Claire Holt (because, let's get real, the worst Damon make-out on the show by far was Damon/Rebekah, and as much as I love Matt and Rebekah their kissy-faces weren't the bestest). So it wasn't Paul who was the problem with the kissy-kiss?

Because this kiss? This Stefan/Caroline kiss? Was P-E-R-F-E-C-T-I-O-N. I have like zero, nada, zilch, no complaints. It was perfection. Just so beautiful. The music, the lighting (more on that later, uh huh), the face framing, the hair touching, the lip-touching, the kiss, the kiss, the kiss, the pretty, pretty, pretty, BEE-YEW-TEE-FUL KISS!!! Really just perfection. (I confess, as a first kiss, I actually liked how it was done better than any of Damon and Elena's first kisses… although, I love that Damon and Elena have like five "first" kisses, LOL!, and I lurve all of them bunches.) I just remain in a state of awed shock and blown-away-ness at how beyond utterly splendiferessnessly they are writing Stefan and Caroline's romance. (Yes, that is a word I totes just made up.) It is just so, so damn good. I am in a pile of a goo at how much full of squee I am. When they kissed, I clapped like a seal and squeed and grinned and was so happy. It was… I just. I am a'flail.

I also loved how they built up to it in this episode with Caroline's awareness of Stefan's hunka-hunka-ness. And that while we didn't get Stefan's end, it was so clear once we got to THE moment of the kiss that Stefan was right there with her *because* Stefan was RIGHT THERE with her. It was such an absolutely gorgeous show that didn't need the earlier show because it was all in the moment and in Paul's acting. I just adored it. And, of course, we got the sexay hilarity of Caroline reaching into Stefan's pocket to grab his phone and obviously grabbing *something* else first. Hehehehe.

 

And Caroline stepping out onto the porch and seeing handyman Stefan at work in his jeans and muscles bulging and Caroline catching her breath and losing her train of thought and Stefan all ‘yeah, baby, I know whatcha thinking, hehehehe.' Did I mention it was awesome? If I did not, let me tell you now, it was awesome.

 

And it was amusing and cute seeing Caroline push around her little pink, way too small for her bike then not knowing the tears it would lead to at the end. (Damn you, show.) Which brings me back to… I loved, loved, loved so very, incredibly hard the Stefan and Caroline scenes (and my goodness, Candice Accola looked so, so pretty and her hair! So sunshiny and bright), but I really, really wanted Caroline *and* Liz to have those final hours... alas life doesn't always work like that. It really, really doesn't. And as much as I love this show, so often that's what we see, how painful life can be and that more often than not it's about wresting what joy and happiness you can in between the pain.

And that's what Stefan showed Caroline at the end. She was not with Liz in her final hours (but as we saw in between the moments of levity with Damon, Liz was a wreck, she was in pain, and she was concentrating on work--again, as she had so much during Caroline's life, instead of going to meet Caroline as she was supposed to hours before). However, Caroline was with Liz in her final moments on this earth, and more than that, Stefan reminded Caroline that she
would always have her memories of her mother. And it was those memories that gave both Caroline and Liz peace in the end. (And now I'm crying again.)

What I'm not crying about, surprisingly, is Jeremy's departure even though I know it's for good. Yeah, Steven R. McQueen is the one who's leaving, well, left. I was spoiled on that. I understand that he wants to broaden his horizons and do more than (if he's lucky) five minutes or so an episode, but I will miss Jeremy and what could have been done with the character. I feel like there was potential that wasn't tapped, but hopefully we can see Jeremy return now and then. That would be lovely. I have some speculation based on his departure and how it went down and it ties into my ongoing Alaric speculation, but first I want go into what we got with Jeremy in our final scenes with him.

Firstly, I am disappointed that they weren't able to arrange it somehow, someway for Bonnie and Jeremy to share something together before McQueen's departure but I suppose that's what last week was about, still a tangible scene between the two would have meant so, so much more. Ah well. Secondly, I am also sad that Michael Trevino (Tyler) wasn't in McQueen's last episode and there was no interaction between Jeremy and Tyler in the previous episode. Tyler and Jeremy have a lot of history and while I understand that Matt and Jeremy have become much closer of late, still, yeah, Tyler and Jeremy… lots of history.

So, those are my two complaints. On with the rest. I thought I would be bummed that Elena wasn't more emotional, all teary-eyed, but I get it. I really do, and I preferred this actually. She has expended so very much emotion on Jeremy over the last two years, so very much emotional grief and pain. To get him safe, to get him out of town, to keep him alive. It's been a non-stop battle for her and the one time she was actually able *to* get him out of town, she literally had to have a vampire compel him. So that he's leaving of his own free will, he looks happier, at peace than he has in months and she believes that he will be save and out of harm's way, I get it.

For the first time since her parents' death, she is seeing a Jeremy who appears completely unfettered and actually, actively looking forward to his future while she's got a boyfriend she's totally into, friends, a home she loves, and her future that she's good with… why would she possibly be anything but happy for him? And so it makes sense. She loves him, she wants him to be happy, and she's all cried out. This is what is best for him. She knows it, he knows it; so she's letting this little bird fly free.

Now, how cute were they all buzzed? I do not condone the use of illegal substances, ahem, but still, they were so cute and adorable just being all smiley and happy together and I'm so very happy that Elena and Jeremy got that one last memory together before he took off for "art school." Oh, yeah, that.

So I've been saying for a while now that I think that something just may be up with Alaric, well, this episode kinda helped solidified that belief. florencia7 has had issues with Ric throughout much of the season while I was defending him throughout most of the early half, understanding his point of view or blaming new writers (ahem). At one point early on, she commented that maybe his actions were driven by what Esther had done to him. I countered that whatever she had done had been wiped clean by his death, after all whenever we saw him with Damon from The Other Side, Alaric acted perfectly, wonderfully Alaric.

However, I mentioned to her in last week's comments that maybe she was right about that and something had transferred. I've been thinking on that more. We did get the comment from Ric in the first episode about how much he hated being a vampire. Also, whenever Ric was with Damon on The Other Side, well, he was *The Other Side.* That could explain why he was acting completely like the Ric we knew and loved. Perhaps upon his return or even when he became human again something that Esther did that had lain dormant was revived.

Or… something that Jo's witchiness revived. Esther was a witch. Jo is a witch. The Gemini coven is full of all kinds of weird witchy woo. I have no clue what nonsense is going on over on The Originals, but I know that Esther is up and about in some other witch's form, whether any of that could/would translate to The Vampire Diaries, I have no clue. I just know that Esther's big thing was that Alaric do his due diligence and keep on keeping on with his vampire-hunting. Oh, and what little venture did Alaric send Jeremy out on? Vampire-hunting.

Now think back… what is the one thing that always remained true in the Elena/Jeremy/Alaric(/Damon) family? Alaric always acceded to Elena's wishes when it came to Jeremy. Elena had the first and final say-so. Always. But yet this time, he goes behind her back, makes the plan, sends Jeremy off and clearly intends to keep it going without Elena any the wiser. Really? Does that sound even remotely like the Ric we know? The Ric who has the type of relationship he has always had with Elena? No, no, no.

Furthermore, we know that Steven R. McQueen is no longer a regular, and as far as I know Bonnie is sure as hell coming back eventually (and it better damn well be soon). Jeremy told Alaric that if Bonnie comes back to let him know with the clear implication that if Bonnie returns, so will Jeremy. Well, we pretty much know that Bonnie's coming back (she better!) and Jeremy is not, right? So that leads me to believe that Alaric does NOT tell Jeremy that Bonnie is coming back. And the email conversation made it seem like Jeremy would send emails, but not really be able to receive them.

I dunno. We'll see. Just think about the Alaric from before Esther got her claws in him. I know I'm repeating myself here, but really think about it: Alaric GOING BEHIND Elena's back is NOT who Alaric is. Alaric being shady is NOT who Alaric is. Alaric basically conniving to make Jeremy a vampire hunter is EXACTLY what Alaric UNDER ESTHER'S CONTROL was planning on doing... remember that letter that Elena and Stefan found in his apartment? That creepy, creepy letter? And remember when we (especially me?) were all annoyed with Alaric in season 03 because of how he was treating Damon and then it turned out that he was being controlled by Esther? I may not watch The Originals, but I know that she's been resurrected over on that show through the whole Other Side falling apart somehow and I know that she *was* over on The Other Side *with* Alaric while he was there.

So something has *got* to be going on. Plus, bringing Jo and her witchy, freaky Gemini coven ways back into it, there is a reason that Damon had that line to Alaric where he asked him: "Can I ask why we continuously compromise logic for some girl you just met?" Remember that Damon equals truth teller on this show. There is something going on here. After all, this is the season of the do-over, right? Damon and Elena re-doing their love story, Tyler re-doing his werewolf story without turning. Maybe we're seeing the attempt to turn Ric to the dark side, but this time it won't end in his death. Instead, we'll see the gang handle it and it will lead to Damon and Ric actually dealing with the real issues they do have. It makes sense, much more than what we're seeing with Ric right now. There just has to be method to this madness. There has to be. Just wait, we will see.

What will we also see? If Mama Salvatore is a vampire?!?! I'm telling you, my long-awaited dream is coming true. She's totally going to turn out to be a vampire who has been living in a monastery this whole time and it burns to the ground or something so she has to come out into the real world and she finds out… dun, dun, dun that her boys are vampires too and still around so she comes to Mystic Falls! Yes! The mention last week from Stefan, and then all of the talk this week from Damon? Oh, yeah, baby, she's a'comin'!

But will her fellow-consumption sufferer be around to meet her or will he be gone and/or dead by then? I'm seriously wondering, folks. I mean, dude, they just ain't even trying. Enzo is just coming across as a plain ole bad guy now, no middle-ground. Threatening Jeremy, nearly killing Matt (I know bogwitch, they tease you so!) and we all know that he's setting up poor Sarah for terribly wicked things! I don't know. I just don't get why they aren't showing another side to him, like, oh, I don't know, him and Damon, or him comforting Caroline. Not that I'd want to see that, but for the character's sake, please. I do like Enzo, but it's like they're writing him into a corner here.

Hmm… I can't see Enzo or Malarkey sticking around beyond this season at this point. I keep going back to my idea of he and Sarah actually falling for one another and Enzo changes his plans. Or maybe they're going to set up a genuine triangle between those two and Matt, which again, involves Enzo changing his plans. We'll see, we'll see. It's not like this show doesn't know how to throw doozies of a curve ball. And again, I do like Enzo, I just don't get what they are doing with him. I am befuddled, they have me in a state of befuddlement here. Hmm….

ETA: I just had an idea... I wonder if the plan is to set up a new main triangle here with a Salvatore in the middle now instead of on either side. Sarah is the "Elena," Matt is the "Stefan" and Enzo is the "Damon." I'm thinking it's quite possible. If all three have chemistry, and I think it could be, they might work on riding that out over the next few seasons. All three fit the look for sure.

Alright then, randoms …

- I admit I would have preferred a wee bit more with Damon and Jeremy, but hey, at least I did get something and for that I am grateful. (As well, I was pleased with one more bit of the Damon/Elena/Jeremy "family.") Damon got him a going-away present (aww!). There were smiles, there was teasing, there were heartfelt moments disguised in sarcasm. And, of course, Damon reminded him of that one time he killed him. And he threatened to kill him again. It wouldn't be Damon and Jeremy bonding time if there wasn't a death threat involved. The only thing that made the scene feel incomplete is that Jeremy didn't call Damon a dick. Ah well, so close. So close.

 
 
 

Honestly, if Damon and Jeremy (especially) were a bit more open in their affection towards one another than we normally see, I'm putting it down to the fact that they were being parted. I mean, knowing that he wasn't going to be seeing Damon on a regular basis, Jeremy just couldn't keep his minion-based love hidden. I mean look at the adoration on his face in that last shot. That boy loves his master. Totes.

- I am telling you and I'm not EVEN joking any more, Caroline Dries has a list. Another thing checked off: Damon had something to do with Elena's parents' accident? Nope, didn't happen.

- Six seasons in and Miranda and Grayson's death STILL matters. God, I love this show.

- *sigh* I loved the little kiss that Elena gave Damon as she left Liz's office (no more) Wah!


- Sarah remains very pretty and I continue to like her. She is just very likable, and very pretty.

- Stefan entwining his fingers with Caroline's was so swoon-worthy. It was just... I just... I am melting....

 

- Aww, I loved Liz looking all 80's with that jacket and the station wagon in the background in the flashback. Gah! That flashback. It was so, so beautiful. And little Caroline, "Don't let go, mommy," but Liz had already let go and little Caroline didn't even realize it. She was ready and Liz knew. Liz knew and she was smiling and, good Lord, I'm getting all weepy again.

 

- The beep of the machine fading to silence and then staying silent as it faded to The Vampire Diaries end title card was awful and perfect and terrible. I hate this show. I love this show. I hate this show. They killed Liz. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Damnit, I'm crying again.

- They're all orphans now. (Well, OK, except for Kelly Donovan, but come on. And technically Abby, but she is undead. And If I'm right about Mama Salvatore, but again, she is undead.)

- You know what is really, really sad is that this was *technically* the Valentine's episode. So, yeah, go Stefan and Caroline!

- *sigh* Both Damon and Elena's and Stefan and Caroline's first (well "first" in Damon and Elena's case) kisses this season had this cool lens flare-effect. It's like it's the endgame couple signal. Hee!

 

(Psst! But Damon and Elena had a bigger flare!)

So, yeah, a tearjerker, but man, oh, man this episode was excellent. So, so, so very good. I loved this one. It broke my heart, I hate them, I hate them, I hate them and I'll never forgive them. First they took my Pearl and now Liz, but man, this one was so good. I love this season like lots. I love this show forever so hard.
 
 
 
Mattghidorah15 on February 13th, 2015 05:41 pm (UTC)
I'm not at all ashamed to admit that I cried at the end of this episode. In fact, it's the first episode of any TV show to make me cry in a while. Liz's death was handled with a lot of care and respect, for which I do praise the writers, but that just makes it even more painful and tragic. :(

Other than that...yeah. I've nothing to add.

Okay, that's not quite true. I think you're right about Alaric - something intentionally worrisome is going on with him. I just hope he doesn't end up turning evil - again. Heck, I can practically hear Damon wailing in frustration: "Oh, no, not this crap again!"

And to end on a lighter note...well, Stefan and Caroline's first kiss was indeed perfect. One of the best in the entire series. Shippers, our day has come. :)
Arabian: Alaric02arabian on February 15th, 2015 07:58 am (UTC)
I'm not at all ashamed to admit that I cried at the end of this episode.

It was a very cry-worthy episode.

In fact, it's the first episode of any TV show to make me cry in a while.

I don't cry for TV much, but I guess TVD is good at getting to me. I mean, Gram's death made me cry, and Damon's "death" in the season 05 finale goodbye between him and Elena had me tearing up the first 20 times I watched it. And now this episode. Gah!

Liz's death was handled with a lot of care and respect, for which I do praise the writers, but that just makes it even more painful and tragic. :(

Yuppers.

Okay, that's not quite true. I think you're right about Alaric - something intentionally worrisome is going on with him. I just hope he doesn't end up turning evil - again. Heck, I can practically hear Damon wailing in frustration: "Oh, no, not this crap again!"

I actually added a few paragraphs more to my Ric section that I'll just put here for you: I dunno. We'll see. Just think about the Alaric from before Esther got her claws in him. I know I'm repeating myself here, but really think about it: Alaric GOING BEHIND Elena's back is NOT who Alaric is. Alaric being shady is NOT who Alaric is. Alaric basically conniving to make Jeremy a vampire hunter is EXACTLY what Alaric UNDER ESTHER'S CONTROL was planning on doing... remember that letter that Elena and Stefan found in his apartment? That creepy, creepy letter? And remember when we (especially me?) were all annoyed with Alaric in season 03 because of how he was treating Damon and then it turned out that he was being controlled by Esther? I may not watch The Originals, but I know that she's been resurrected over on that show through the whole Other Side falling apart somehow and I know that she *was* over on The Other Side *with* Alaric while he was there.

So something has *got* to be going on. Plus, bringing Jo and her witchy, freaky Gemini coven ways back into it, there is a reason that Damon had that line to Alaric where he asked him: "Can I ask why we continuously compromise logic for some girl you just met?" Remember that Damon equals truth teller on this show. There is something going on here. After all, this is the season of the do-over, right? Damon and Elena re-doing their love story, Tyler re-doing his werewolf story without turning. Maybe we're seeing the attempt to turn Ric to the dark side, but this time it won't end in his death. Instead, we'll see the gang handle it and it will lead to Damon and Ric actually dealing with the real issues they do have. It makes sense, much more than what we're seeing with Ric right now. There just has to be method to this madness. There has to be. Just wait, we will see.

And to end on a lighter note...well, Stefan and Caroline's first kiss was indeed perfect. One of the best in the entire series. Shippers, our day has come. :)

Yuppers x2!

Edited at 2015-02-15 08:01 am (UTC)
tj2013tj2013 on February 13th, 2015 08:09 pm (UTC)
Liz, oh Liz
Yeah... that was ... painful. Gosh, I'm gonna miss Liz. She was always there, even if not on-screen, she was the last normal parent of our crew. I liked her so much, and I am really gonna miss her. Her death was not as shocking as Aunt Jenna's, for example, but still, I am kind of numb, and every time I rewatch her scenes with Damon, I am tearing up. +
RIP, Liz Forbes.
I agree, it was beautifully done, everything from her scenes in her office with Damon until the memory Caroline gave her.
I also had that impression that there suddenly was a son-mother vibe with Damon and Liz and it was ok, for both of them, and then Liz offered Damon a second chance! That's what the whole series is also about (at least for me) - about second chances, about the things you didn't do but you regret and then you get another chance to make it right - and she gave it to Damon. Which was really wonderful. I am tearing up again while writing this, honestly. It was so so so good.

Wouldn't it be ironic that (in case you're right and Mama Salvatore shows up being a vampire) our boys will be the ones with a parent? (not counting Abby and Kelly, because they don't show up anymore).

I don't know either where they are going with Enzo. No clue.

Stefan - Caroline: perfection.

Damon and Elena are back in their comfortable interaction, which in this ep was graet to see. It was in the back, but it was there, and I loved it. Their conversation on the phone, the short kiss, Elena's head on Damon's shoulder when Liz died...

So, yes, wonderful episode. Thanks for putting up your thoughts so quickly - and I hope you are feeling better!

Liz!!! Sniff....

Edited at 2015-02-13 08:51 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Damon&Liz02arabian on February 16th, 2015 08:54 am (UTC)
Re: Liz, oh Liz
Yeah... that was ... painful.

But in the best way possible!

Gosh, I'm gonna miss Liz. She was always there, even if not on-screen, she was the last normal parent of our crew. I liked her so much, and I am really gonna miss her.

Yup, yup, yup.

I also had that impression that there suddenly was a son-mother vibe with Damon and Liz and it was ok, for both of them, and then Liz offered Damon a second chance!

So, it wasn't just me. I've never felt that ever with them before, but I did with those final scenes, and it was so weird, how it didn't feel weird, but so right.

That's what the whole series is also about (at least for me) - about second chances, about the things you didn't do but you regret and then you get another chance to make it right - and she gave it to Damon. Which was really wonderful. I am tearing up again while writing this, honestly. It was so so so good.

Man, I was tearing up so much while writing this one!

Wouldn't it be ironic that (in case you're right and Mama Salvatore shows up being a vampire) our boys will be the ones with a parent? (not counting Abby and Kelly, because they don't show up anymore).

I know, right!! Dude, she's sooooooooooooooo showing up! Mentioned in two episodes in a row now? So, so, sooooo showing up.

Damon and Elena are back in their comfortable interaction, which in this ep was graet to see. It was in the back, but it was there, and I loved it. Their conversation on the phone, the short kiss, Elena's head on Damon's shoulder when Liz died...

Did you notice that Damon had his head on Elena's head too? So perfect.
tj2013tj2013 on February 18th, 2015 06:42 pm (UTC)
Re: Liz, oh Liz
Did you notice that Damon had his head on Elena's head too? So perfect.
No!! I missed that one. Shame on me, LOL. Thanks for pointing it out.

I am so excited about Mama Salvatore. And hopefully Bonnie will come back soon. Maybe she will be the one Matt can finally talk to. And then Bonnie will go to ... ding ding ding ... Damon!


Edited at 2015-02-18 06:43 pm (UTC)
Florencia: TVD (All Is Well in Mystic Falls)florencia7 on February 14th, 2015 06:14 pm (UTC)
TBC
I was busy with my Mom's birthday (which was yesterday) and I'm still crying because of Liz but I'll be back as soon as I can (maybe even later today) with lots of love for your amazing post AND an anti-Alaric rant LOL

♥!!!
Arabian: Alaric01arabian on February 15th, 2015 02:12 am (UTC)
Re: TBC
Before you go on your anti-Alaric rant, take in what I wrote about him and think about the Alaric from before Esther got her claws in him. You're the one who even brought up that possibility. (And I am so adding this to my post, LOL!)

ETA: I did add my original comment to you to the post, cleaned it up a bit and added more so I'm just putting that here in case you opened the post earlier again and didn't refresh, LOL!

Just think about the Alaric from before Esther got her claws in him. I know I'm repeating myself here, but really think about it: Alaric GOING BEHIND Elena's back is NOT who Alaric is. Alaric being shady is NOT who Alaric is. Alaric basically conniving to make Jeremy a vampire hunter is EXACTLY what Alaric UNDER ESTHER'S CONTROL was planning on doing... remember that letter that Elena and Stefan found in his apartment? That creepy, creepy letter? And remember when we (especially me?) were all annoyed with Alaric in season 03 because of how he was treating Damon and then it turned out that he was being controlled by Esther? I may not watch The Originals, but I know that she's been resurrected over on that show through the whole Other Side falling apart somehow and I know that she *was* over on The Other Side *with* Alaric while he was there.

So something has *got* to be going on. Plus, bringing Jo and her witchy, freaky Gemini coven ways back into it, there is a reason that Damon had that line to Alaric where he asked him: "Can I ask why we continuously compromise logic for some girl you just met?" Remember that Damon equals truth teller on this show. There is something going on here. After all, this is the season of the do-over, right? Damon and Elena re-doing their love story, Tyler re-doing his werewolf story without turning. Maybe we're seeing the attempt to turn Ric to the dark side, but this time it won't end in his death. Instead, we'll see the gang handle it and it will lead to Damon and Ric actually dealing with the real issues they do have. It makes sense, much more than what we're seeing with Ric right now. There just has to be method to this madness. There has to be. Just wait, we will see.

Edited at 2015-02-15 08:03 am (UTC)
Florencia: TVD (Our Town)florencia7 on February 15th, 2015 03:08 pm (UTC)
Re: TBC
haha No, this time since there was a night in between I had to refresh the page ;D

PS. See, I still have an Alaric icon, so I didn't give up on him completely *yet* lol
Arabian: Alaric02arabian on February 16th, 2015 08:55 am (UTC)
Re: TBC
OK, good.

RE: Alaric, I just think that you're ignoring how off Alaric is acting and not even questioning that something has to be going on here. You liked the character before and you know that this show doesn't just switch characters on a dime, so don't just write him off without letting the season at least play out. Do you really think they'd bring him back to just be a jerk to Damon and betray Elena?

Edited at 2015-02-16 08:55 am (UTC)
Florencia: TVD (Our Town)florencia7 on February 16th, 2015 05:34 pm (UTC)
Re: TBC
"Do you really think they'd bring him back to just be a jerk to Damon and betray Elena?" - I don't think he betrayed Elena. I just think he could've done better by her. These are two different things (I think lol) As for him being a jerk... Maybe we're just supposed to see the other side to him? In S3 he was always on the right side and even when he wasn't it was because of Esther. He was being judgmental, but it made sense and on the most part we felt he had good reasons, the right, even, to be that way. Now he's being judgmental but it's no longer so easy to sympathize with his POV. Maybe the point is to show that the same person can be right and wrong... which is one of the show's recurring themes anyway.
Arabian: Elena10arabian on February 17th, 2015 12:15 am (UTC)
Re: TBC
But I agree with you now that he's WRONG in what he did with Ric, and I don't think there's anyone who's watching the show logically and still enjoying it who doesn't think that Ric is wrong. I don't think the writers don't expect you to think that. So obviously something has got to be up with Ric.

And, yes, he IS betraying Elena. She believes her brother is safe and free from all of this vampire/supernatural crazy and instead Ric is sending him right back into the actual, thick heart of it, actively searching for the danger of it. This is NOT the Ric we know. Something is up. This is not right and wrong, this is wrong. He is betraying Elena and going behind her back to do so.
jairem08jairem08 on February 14th, 2015 06:47 pm (UTC)
LIZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Firstly hope all went well with your check up.

Again amazing write up. I feel guilty I haven't responded earlier to your fast post but have had a raging headache since Friday morning and of course still am reeling over Liz's departure.
Your review was wonderful and made me cry. Still when I read or even write this comment it makes me teary.
The whole story and final times with Liz were done beautifully. I think one or if not the most amazing send off of a character in the TVD. So perfect. Every single interaction with Damon and the final bike scene just slayed me. So symbolic and sad and ... I just want to cry again. I haven't honestly been so sad over a character death in a very long time. I hated when Damon died but we sort of knew he was coming back. But Liz's death is final. For good. She may only appear in flashbacks or dreams now. The scene when Caroline and Stefan arrive at the hospital - so beautifully done.
I loved this episode and that is to say for episode where there was very little DE. And even with the little DE we had they were perfect. They just are. Elena having or not having her memories doesn't really matter now. They gravitate towards each other. They lean towards each other. The arm of Damon on Elena's shoulder in the Grill, them leaning towards each other in the school, Elena pecking face and stroking Damon's arm at the station and then her leaning her head on his shoulder in the hospital. Every single scene with them was perfect. We didn't have big DE scenes in our face but we had all those small ones with signs and gestures that the are there and together. Cannot wait for the memories to come back and proper amazing reunion. It will happen - right? They won't take it away from us.
Caroline and Stefan - finalyyyy! like really finally. The kiss was beautiful and romantic.
Finalestest (word just made up) nail to SE coffin and SE lovers I would say?
Enzo - still not getting his plan. I think he might be the next storyline to cause some havoc. Not sure if Kai will still really be the bad thing?

Alaric- I'm also starting to think there is something strange happening. Sending Jeremy hunting vampires? Really? Caroline mentions in the scene arriving at the holiday house to Stefan that Elena is happy Jeremy is leaving to get away from all the vampire drama. He knows how Elena feels about Jeremy being in danger. He is basically their father figure. What is happening. And is Jeremy really doing this willingly? Why? How? And Bonnie is certainly coming back. How is she going to react when she finds out he is gone and obviously is not coming back? I think one of the reasons the writers decided to do this is to wait it out. To see if Steven is going to come back or not after a while. If yes he can slide into the storyline again. If not they can just kill him off which is easy during dangerous vampire hunting and killing. Or there is really something crazy happening wit Alaric. And when Elena and Damon find out the ffjwyr will hit the fan. I have not clue what else to think about this.

I'm really curious what next. Excited for the next episode.

Arabian: Damon&Liz02arabian on February 16th, 2015 09:52 am (UTC)
Re: LIZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Firstly hope all went well with your check up.

Still waiting for final results, thanks.

Again amazing write up. I feel guilty I haven't responded earlier to your fast post but have had a raging headache since Friday morning and of course still am reeling over Liz's departure.

Oh, I've been there. I understand.

Your review was wonderful and made me cry. Still when I read or even write this comment it makes me teary.

Thank you. I was teary writing it up, I get it for sure!

The whole story and final times with Liz were done beautifully. I think one or if not the most amazing send off of a character in the TVD. So perfect. Every single interaction with Damon and the final bike scene just slayed me. So symbolic and sad and ... I just want to cry again. I haven't honestly been so sad over a character death in a very long time. I hated when Damon died but we sort of knew he was coming back. But Liz's death is final. For good. She may only appear in flashbacks or dreams now. The scene when Caroline and Stefan arrive at the hospital - so beautifully done.

Absolutely agreed all around.

I loved this episode and that is to say for episode where there was very little DE. And even with the little DE we had they were perfect. They just are. Elena having or not having her memories doesn't really matter now.

Exactly. And that's why I said I was OK with her not having her memories, because we got this. Her falling for him and still loving him, being with him like this.

We didn't have big DE scenes in our face but we had all those small ones with signs and gestures that the are there and together.

You know when I did my rewatch of the entire series one of the things that drove me crazy was that we had two full season of non-stop S/E scenes like that with them, but nothing of that with Damon/Elena. Even the season when they were dating (for only 9 freaking episodes) they were separate for most of it because Elena was away at college), so getting this now is so nice because it's what I wanted for Damon and Elena. Of course, we're still not going to get that same length of time, but quality over quantity, right?

Cannot wait for the memories to come back and proper amazing reunion. It will happen - right? They won't take it away from us.

I sure hope you right, because that can't take that away from us, they surely, surely can't!

Finalestest (word just made up) nail to SE coffin and SE lovers I would say?

Hah! As if! I'm sure, the die-hards are still hanging on.

Enzo - still not getting his plan. I think he might be the next storyline to cause some havoc. Not sure if Kai will still really be the bad thing?

I edited stuff into my post, mostly about Alaric (I don't think I can fit it all here--but you can go back and read it), but I also added this about Enzo, Matt and Sarah. I wonder if the plan is to set up a new main triangle here with a Salvatore in the middle now instead of on either side. Sarah is the "Elena," Matt is the "Stefan" and Enzo is the "Damon." I'm thinking it's quite possible. If all three have chemistry, and I think it could be, they might work on riding that out over the next few seasons. All three fit the look for sure.

So, no, I don't think that Enzo will be the next big bad.

I think that like with the Damon/Elena do-over and the Tyler-werewolf do-over, they're doing an Alaric-going bad do-over, but this time it will be fixed right. We'll see. As for Jeremy, yeah, hopefully we'll see Jeremy visit. Hopefully.
Florencia: TVD (All Is Well in Mystic Falls)florencia7 on February 15th, 2015 03:09 pm (UTC)
part I
I'm finally here! I already heard from people that this post was FANTASTIC, so I was double-impatient to read it ♥

”I cried when Liz and Damon were talking at her bedside.” - That was such a beautiful scene. ALL of the Damon/Liz scenes in this episode were amazing.

”I don't know why The Vampire Diaries decided to kill Liz off.” - Well, the official standpoint is that they “wanted to tell a death that mattered” without any supernatural tricks being able to save the day. So I guess there's that. Considering Liz' screen time over the course the entire series I don't think her remaining alive would collide with her co-writing another show, but who knows.

”That, my friends, is the world of The Vampire Diaries.” - Yeah, you're right, but 6 years in, my inner fluff-lover is still in the process of coming to terms with this lol

”This *is* a friendship that's been growing since early in season 01 and started to genuinely become real for Damon as early as the final episodes of that season so to allow viewers the opportunity to see it fully get its due was the right thing to do.” - Yes, it was, and they really gave them LOTS of time... especially in comparison to Liz/Caroling.

”Because if it was supernatural, there was a reason…” - This was such a gorgeous scene. And I usually can never re-watch heartbreaking scenes right away, but this one was so wonderfully written that I did re-watch it twice already.

”Yet, the really, really weird thing was that it *didn't* feel weird; it felt just right.” - So true!

” But, but, but, I wanted Caroline and Liz scenes.” - Me too, so much, but I understand why they didn't do it... AND we did get the amazing Damon/Liz scenes, so I'm not going to complain. Poor Caroline, though :[

”Now, I know that some actually started shipping them in season 01 and kudos to those way early-timers” - I can't say I was shipping them that early, but I *knew* since 1x01 there were endgame haha I think 2x02 did it for me as well, but then they went on a sort of hiatus and didn't really interact much AND then I got distracted by Klaus/Caroline ;)

”firstly, what happened to Paul Wesley and his inability to kiss onscreen? Seriously, I am not kidding. I was a mite worried about Stefan and Caroline's first kiss” - Yes! I have to admit, I had to watch the kiss twice, because upon the first viewing I was too busy worrying! Lol! & may I take this opportunity to point out that their first kiss was almost twice as long as DE kiss in 3x10? So I'd say the writers are really trying to make up for the lost time ;)

”I actually liked how it was done better than any of Damon and Elena's first kisses” - There's some truth to that indeed. But SC never had that kind of angst going on between them, so it makes sense that their first kiss could be sooooo peaceful.

”although, I love that Damon and Elena have like five "first" kisses, LOL!” - Yeah, and there is that ;D

”and my goodness, Candice Accola looked so, so pretty and her hair!” - Yes! To the point of it being distractive! haha So so pretty.

” and more than that, Stefan reminded Caroline that she would always have her memories of her mother. And it was those memories that gave both Caroline and Liz peace in the end. (And now I'm crying again.)” - I really don't know when the tears will stop... Right now I feel like it was THE most devastating death on the show, I can't even make an emotional effort to try doing an actual comparison.

”So, those are my two complaints.” - Yes to both. And I think that at least the Jeremy/Tyler thing would've been pretty easy to arrange AND it'd make it possible for Tyler to be conveniently nearby. I don't know why but I have a feeling he won't attend the funeral and this would just be SO wrong and wouldn't do him as a character any favors. He can't be THAT traumatized by the break-up with Liv that he's bailing on Caroline (and everyone else) in such a moment???

Edited at 2015-02-15 03:09 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Damon&Liz01arabian on February 16th, 2015 10:07 am (UTC)
Re: part I
I'm finally here! I already heard from people that this post was FANTASTIC, so I was double-impatient to read it ♥

Honestly, I find that shocking considering the very low number of responses. :(

That was such a beautiful scene. ALL of the Damon/Liz scenes in this episode were amazing.

They really, really were. I cannot say how much I appreciate that they gave such appreciation to their friendship.

Well, the official standpoint is that they “wanted to tell a death that mattered” without any supernatural tricks being able to save the day. So I guess there's that. Considering Liz' screen time over the course the entire series I don't think her remaining alive would collide with her co-writing another show, but who knows.

Ah, I can see that. Sucks, but, yeah. Damnit.

Yes, it was, and they really gave them LOTS of time... especially in comparison to Liz/Caroling.

Well, we've been getting Liz/Carol moments all season and their relationship has been growing and pretty dang wonderful since "As I Lay Dying," when Liz accepted her vampirism. They've had plenty of strong, emotional scenes. Damon and Liz haven't like barely at all. And since he found out about her cancer, he's had one small scene with Liz. Caroline and Liz have had 4 episodes worth of various scenes. Yes, they could have had more, but I don't think ANY OF US could have taken that many more scenes of Liz and Caroline without being complete sobbing messes. We know they've spent tons of time together and we've seen scenes with them.

”Because if it was supernatural, there was a reason…” - This was such a gorgeous scene. And I usually can never re-watch heartbreaking scenes right away, but this one was so wonderfully written that I did re-watch it twice already.

Man, the writing was sooo good in that scene. It was exquisite.

”So, those are my two complaints.” - Yes to both. And I think that at least the Jeremy/Tyler thing would've been pretty easy to arrange AND it'd make it possible for Tyler to be conveniently nearby. I don't know why but I have a feeling he won't attend the funeral and this would just be SO wrong and wouldn't do him as a character any favors. He can't be THAT traumatized by the break-up with Liv that he's bailing on Caroline (and everyone else) in such a moment???

Everyone should be there (damnit, couldn't Steven R. McQueen have stayed ONE MORE FREAKING EPISODE!) And no Bonnie back yet! Man, this sucks!!!
Florencia: TVD (All Is Well in Mystic Falls)florencia7 on February 16th, 2015 05:35 pm (UTC)
Re: part I
"Honestly, I find that shocking considering the very low number of responses." - Maybe some people are just still feeling too depressed to comment. Or they are too upset with the episode to even think about it at all.
Arabian: Damon18arabian on February 17th, 2015 12:16 am (UTC)
Re: part I
Alas, this is quite a recurring theme. I've accepted that people just aren't here anymore. It sucks, but there it is. :(
Florencia: TVD (Best Friends Forever)florencia7 on February 15th, 2015 03:10 pm (UTC)
part II
”I have no clue what nonsense is going on over on The Originals, but I know that Esther is up and about in some other witch's form, whether any of that could/would translate to The Vampire Diaries, I have no clue.” - I also have no clue, but I just find it a bit hard to imagine that they would bring Esther, in any form, back into the picture (on TVD) Of course we still talk about the Wickery Bridge accident, Quetsiya and Silas get shout-outs, we're being reminded about Vicki or Zach every once in a while, etc. But for some reason I think that going back to Esther's shenanigans in regard to Alaric NOW would feel predominantly random.

”Does that sound even remotely like the Ric we know? The Ric who has the type of relationship he has always had with Elena? No, no, no.” - Well... hear me out! ;) badboy_fangirl mentioned in my journal (btw, don't read my reaction post, because it contains a small but still a serious visual spoiler for the next episode ;) Alaric's immaturity & that triggered the following Alaric/Isobel mini-meta (lol): I realized that there IS something to it. Alaric's not-so-obvious immaturity is there and it may be the reason behind his half-conscious tendency to be pretty controlling. When Elena couldn't pinpoint THE memory in 6x02 he didn't say "well, maybe it's a sign, think it over, we'll get back to this tomorrow." Instead, he *yelled* at her to think harder. Also in his scene with Jeremy, it didn't look like he was reluctantly going along with Jeremy's idea. He was VERY supportive of it, on the verge of being excited. What I'm getting at, is that Alaric seems to have an extremely clear idea of what's best for other people. And after all these years, this actually cleared up the Alaric/Isobel issue for me, namely, why Isobel left. From what we saw in flashbacks, they had a happy marriage and their mutual love was genuine. So maybe what pushed Isobel to making such a drastic choice was not just selfishness and curiosity, but rather the sense of not feeling free, feeling that she couldn't truly be herself with him, because he wasn't the kind of person who would accept anything *just because* he loved her. Keeping that in mind, his behavior right now doesn't seem as out-of-character like maybe we'd like to think...

”So that leads me to believe that Alaric does NOT tell Jeremy that Bonnie is coming back.” - Of course (for whatever reason) he won't. They wouldn't have him say that he will otherwise lol

”Alaric being shady is NOT who Alaric is.” - Let's not forget that Esther was taking advantage of what already was a part of who Alaric was (and is), so it's not like, witchy influences or not, he's behaving like a *completely* different person.

I was & still am upset with Alaric because of what happened to Elena's memories, but one could argue that he at least meant well (there's that proverb about the path to hell and good intentions). He should've taken into consideration that Elena wasn't thinking clearly, he should've at the very least try talking her out of this, point out to her different solutions, different ways to deal. That's what a parent-figure, good friend should do. If you want to commit a suicide a good friend doesn't say “Aw, OK, what song would you like to be played during your funeral?” A good friend TALKS YOU OUT OF IT.

But OK, let's say that Alaric really believed he was helping Elena. HOWEVER. Is there really a way, ANY WAY, to see Alaric sending Jeremy off to be a vampire hunter as Alaric helping Jeremy move on with his life and/or be happy??? He's basically sending him off on a suicide mission. He's lying to Elena. They both are. But Jeremy's still a kid! And if taking drugs being the most normal thing he's done in a while is any indication, he's not only a kid, he's a messed-up kid! Alaric's an adult who is basically being a father to Elena and Jeremy and now he is consciously and deliberately ruining his life. He's allowing Jeremy to become someone I'm sure he doesn't really want to be. When in 4x07 Elena found out that Stefan had made Jeremy kill a vampire, she considered this to be for Jeremy a straight path to LOSING HIS HUMANITY. Because, shocker, that's what mass-murdering people does to a person.

Edited at 2015-02-15 03:12 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Alaric03arabian on February 16th, 2015 11:09 am (UTC)
Re: part II
I also have no clue, but I just find it a bit hard to imagine that they would bring Esther, in any form, back into the picture (on TVD)

From what I know, one of the main thrusts of the season is due to the Other Side collapsing and THAT story ALL came about on TVD so stories that began on one show can happen on the other show so I don't see why Esther can't somehow impact us here. And her story DID begin on TVD. And then there is this...

Of course we still talk about the Wickery Bridge accident, Quetsiya and Silas get shout-outs, we're being reminded about Vicki or Zach every once in a while, etc.

But for some reason I think that going back to Esther's shenanigans in regard to Alaric NOW would feel predominantly random.

THE LETTER TO JEREMY. How could it be even remotely random. Ric just sent Jeremy out on a vampire-hunting mission for life which is EXACTLY what he planned to do as programmed by Esther's shenanigans. That's about as unrandom as you can get.

First of all, badboy-fangirl has decided I no longer exist because I applied logic to the Nian situation back in 2013 and heaven forbid I do that and based on some of the criticism she has leveled against TVD showing her lack of logic, I frankly have no interest in what she has to say now. Pfft. And her reason? Yeah, let's take one line from one scene from *this* season that's about the Alaric issues. :rme:

As for your Alaric/Isobel issue... really? No, they didn't have a happy marriage. That was very clear in the flashbacks. She loved Ric, but she wasn't happy. She wanted more. The only thing she loved about her life was Ric, but he wasn't enough. That was the problem.

His behavior is completely out of character from everything we know about him. You two have pulled one random line from one scene from THIS season where we *are* questioning that SOMETHING is probably going on, and misinterpreted every Alaric/Isobel flashback when we've been told explicitly by Isobel, by Damon (the show's truth teller), by Alaric what the issue was in their marriage.

”Alaric being shady is NOT who Alaric is.” - Let's not forget that Esther was taking advantage of what already was a part of who Alaric was

No, she tapped into the part of him that once believed that all vampires were evil because of what happened to Isobel. THAT is what she tapped into. That was a part of his philosophy for several years. It was only after he grew to know Damon, and even then, Damon was still a dick and other vampires can be evil. She tapped into the part of him that knows vampires have a capacity for evil. But Elena, Matt, Caroline, etc. have that part. All of them do. THAT is what she tapped into and then she nurtured it through months and months.

I was & still am upset with Alaric because of what happened to Elena's memories, but one could argue that he at least meant well. [...] A good friend TALKS YOU OUT OF IT.

I don't think a friend who wants to commit suicide is a fair analogy. Elena didn't want to commit suicide or anything like that. She wanted to STOP THE RISK OF GOING ON A MURDEROUS RAMPAGE! That's a pretty big deal. Elena was this close to killing people because she was so far gone in her grief. And Alaric thought that Damon was dead, gone, forever, never coming back and that if he did not do this... Elena WOULD commit suicide. She WOULD go walking into the sun. He tried to talk her out of it, it didn't work and he stopped when he realized the options were Elena goes on a murderous rampage or walks into the sun without her ring. How was he doing anything BUT being a good friend?

HOWEVER. Is there really a way, ANY WAY, to see Alaric sending Jeremy off to be a vampire hunter as Alaric helping Jeremy move on with his life and/or be happy???

OK, you just copied/pasted this from your post, LOL! and ignored the fact that I basically said the same thing in my post. I agree that what Alaric did was absolutely wrong and therefore SOMETHING IS GOING ON WITH ALARIC!

ETA: I'd already figured out that spoiler because someone shared that actress' name (and, God, I loathe her so hard!) and it was pretty easy to figure stuff out just from that. Sigh.
Florencia: DE (In Silence)florencia7 on February 16th, 2015 05:35 pm (UTC)
Re: part II
"Ric just sent Jeremy out on a vampire-hunting mission for life which is EXACTLY what he planned to do as programmed by Esther's shenanigans." - I guess one of the reasons I have such a big problem with this being addressed again now is... how are we going to solve this? IF Alaric is still under Esther's influence and IF they figure it out? I can see maybe Jo doing a spell, but... that'd be such an easy solution to such a recycled issue... I don't know. I just don't see what would be the point of making that a storyline again. Unless we'd see Alaric fight against this all by himself - which could maybe parallel Elena trying to fight the compulsion & get her memories back all by herself as well.

Aw I'm sorry. I wasn't aware. I mean, I heard *something* but no names were mentioned & I fail at figuring out things like that, so I had no idea.

"And Alaric thought that Damon was dead, gone, forever, never coming back" - I'd say that makes it even worse... lol But anyway. You know that I wasn't anti-Alaric on this ever since 6x02. It was only his behavior later on that made me re-examine the memory erasure. As for

"How was he doing anything BUT being a good friend?" - Again, I'd say he took an easy route. Yes, he tried to talk her out of it, but only as much as to keep his conscience clean. I'm not saying he was doing it on purpose, absolutely not. But still. The harder & better route would have been to try showing Elena reasons to live, even with the grief eating her up. He could have taken her away, show her the world, show her ways in which she could be helping other people, etc. It's ELENA we're talking about here. And she's been taking witchy drugs for FOUR MONTHS every day. All I'm saying us that he could've tried to find a way to get through to her. He didn't try ANY alternative options except for maybe asking her once if she was sure she wanted to do that.

"OK, you just copied/pasted this from your post, LOL!" - lol Yes, I was in a hurry & figured I'd save some time on re-phrasing ;D

"I'd already figured out that spoiler because someone shared that actress' name (and, God, I loathe her so hard!)" - Awww!! Really??!? I'm so sorry. That's so unfortunate! I have never seen or even heard about her before.
Arabian: Alaric02arabian on February 18th, 2015 05:54 am (UTC)
Re: part II
how are we going to solve this? IF Alaric is still under Esther's influence and IF they figure it out?

How were they going to solve the Traveler's spell over the whole town? We had no clue and the show had a brilliant, wonderful solution. These writers know what they're doing and while we're good at figuring out some things they have planned, they can still beautifully pull the rug out from under us and surprise us.

You know that I wasn't anti-Alaric on this ever since 6x02. It was only his behavior later on that made me re-examine the memory erasure.

And it's clear to me that there is obviously *something going on* with this behavior. The fact that Damon has issue with him and we've had clear lines from Damon (THE SHOW'S TRUTH TELLER) makes that clear. And that final scene with Jeremy made that crystal clear. I guess I just don't understand why you can't seem to be even truly entertaining that role, but instead seem so intent on washing your hands of Alaric and ignoring the obvious parallels to season 03 and the fact that this season is all about the re-do and "fixing" things that went wrong. The "fix" with Alaric wasn't fixed properly, instead he died. Now's the chance to do it right.

RE: That actress, I'm hoping I won't dislike her here especially knowing her role. *sigh*
Florencia: Elena (You Lied to Me)florencia7 on February 15th, 2015 03:13 pm (UTC)
part III
”there is a reason that Damon had that line to Alaric where he asked him: "Can I ask why we continuously compromise logic for some girl you just met?"” - Having said I said above, I still hope you're right and there will be a follow-up to that statement.

”She's totally going to turn out to be a vampire who has been living in a monastery this whole time and it burns to the ground or something so she has to come out into the real world and she finds out… dun, dun, dun that her boys are vampires too” - Ohhhhh I like this scenario! Because it would explain how she could still be her nice self (I'm assuming she's the light to Giuseppe's darkness lol) while being a vampire! I just hope that she won't be our next big bad lol

”I do like Enzo, I just don't get what they are doing with him. I am befuddled, they have me in a state of befuddlement here.” - haha Yeah, me too! Although I have to say this storyline annoyed me less in this episode... maybe because there wasn't too much focus on it. Either way, I am looking forward to seeing how it will *finally* ties into a bigger picture.

”I just had an idea... I wonder if the plan is to set up a new main triangle here with a Salvatore in the middle now instead of on either side. Sarah is the "Elena," Matt is the "Stefan" and Enzo is the "Damon." I'm thinking it's quite possible.” - This sounds VERY probable indeed! That way the show could keep its favorite triangle theme still going strong ;) So... in the long run this is going to make Caroline a great-great-great-aunt-in-law to either Matt or Enzo, yes? ^^

”It wouldn't be Damon and Jeremy bonding time if there wasn't a death threat involved.” haha True!

”Another thing checked off: Damon had something to do with Elena's parents' accident? Nope, didn't happen.” - Would you believe there are actually people out there (or more specifically on tumblr, as I'm told) who consider this episode a PROOF that he DID have something to do with it? Just... no comments lol

”I loved the little kiss that Elena gave Damon as she left Liz's office” - Yes, it was sweet ♥

”Gah! That flashback. It was so, so beautiful. And little Caroline, "Don't let go, mommy,"” - I'm just going to cry forever over this. So so so sad. And beautiful. AND SAD.

”You know what is really, really sad is that this was *technically* the Valentine's episode.” - I forgot about this! This show and holidays. They killed Vicki on Halloween, Carol on Christmas, Liz on the Valentine's Day... Now I'm dreading Easter.

”But Damon and Elena had a bigger flare!” - lol Oh yeah! I totally noticed this too ^^

It was one of the best episodes ever ♥ But it broke my heart and I'M NOT OK.

Thank you for this post! I LOVED reading it! ♥
Arabian: Damon & Elena43arabian on February 16th, 2015 11:25 am (UTC)
Re: part III
”there is a reason that Damon had that line to Alaric where he asked him: "Can I ask why we continuously compromise logic for some girl you just met?"” - Having said I said above, I still hope you're right and there will be a follow-up to that statement.

I just don't see how there isn't something going on at this point. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but too much is going on, especially with this line from Damon and that final scene with Ric and Jeremy.

Ohhhhh I like this scenario! Because it would explain how she could still be her nice self (I'm assuming she's the light to Giuseppe's darkness lol) while being a vampire! I just hope that she won't be our next big bad lol

It's just always been my scenario personally.

This sounds VERY probable indeed! That way the show could keep its favorite triangle theme still going strong ;)

Yeah, I dunno, I'm really stuck on the idea that the Enzo/Sarah/Matt triangle is where this is headed now.

Would you believe there are actually people out there (or more specifically on tumblr, as I'm told) who consider this episode a PROOF that he DID have something to do with it? Just... no comments lol

Consider some other VERY, VERY stupid comments I read on tumblr, not in the least.

”You know what is really, really sad is that this was *technically* the Valentine's episode.” - I forgot about this! This show and holidays. They killed Vicki on Halloween, Carol on Christmas, Liz on the Valentine's Day... Now I'm dreading Easter.

Eh, I don't think Easter is a "big" enough holiday, LOL!

Thank you for this post! I LOVED reading it! ♥

Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to respond. *sigh* It is sad, though, I miss the days when I'd get lots of commenters. I don't understand why people have decided this show is no longer good or worth watching/talking positive/thinking-discussing deep thoughts about. It's as good as ever. *double sigh*
jairem08jairem08 on February 16th, 2015 02:19 pm (UTC)
Re: part III
I came to conclusion that there are/were a lot of TVD viewers that are plain silly stopping watching or bashing the show when it is not going their way. They do not appreciate it at all. TVD is such an amazing and underrated TV series it drives me mad. Many people don't give it a chance an when they get upset they just leave. Silly them. They are missing out. No one can tarnish my amazing TVD for me. No way.
Your place is my place to go to indulge and really enjoy because I know you love this story just like me and I know I can relax and enjoy.
No point going elsewhere except for lovely Florencia7"s Journal : ) She makes me laugh and enjoys it like crazy just like you and me. Keep up with this amazing work. Thank you
Arabian: Damon04arabian on February 18th, 2015 06:10 am (UTC)
Re: part III
Thank you. :)
Florencia: Damon (Piano)florencia7 on February 16th, 2015 05:36 pm (UTC)
Re: part III
"I don't understand why people have decided this show is no longer good or worth watching/talking positive/thinking-discussing deep thoughts about. It's as good as ever. *double sigh*" - Yeah, I agree! And I don't understand it either. But maybe it also has something to do with people leaving LJ altogether? I remember the times when there were *hundreds* of comments on episode discussion posts @ damon_elena & now there are maybe *3* every week lol
Arabian: Damon13arabian on February 18th, 2015 06:06 am (UTC)
Re: part III
I know LJ is mostly empty, but some places still get comments, and I still see some people on my flist who watch TVD and comment on it who have simply decided to stop commenting on my posts, so it's me, my posts, whatever reason. It's just depressing. Oh well.