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25 October 2013 @ 04:34 am
5.04 - 'For Whom The Bell Tolls' (The Vampire Diaries)  
Another Thursday night, another Vampire Diaries and I feel fine! WHEEE!

Well, tonight proved something definitively. Staying away from tumblr, spoilers, speculation, etc. has been the right call. I slipped a bit in the last week because I did let worries seep in a wee due to the promo. I let it get to me, so I broke a bit. Sure enough, comments from media, crew, writers and naysaying speculation non-stop led me to expect the very worst tonight so I was not looking forward to the episode. And aha! I was right last week; there was absolutely nothing to worry about at all in the episode with regards to Stefan and Elena. Nothing at all.

Everything that happened between them was about their past and about her present happiness in her life—which she has found with Damon—and nothing to do with any great love she shares with Stefan. It was a lovely bit of walk down memory lane for Stefan/Elena fans (who will likely see it for more, whatever), but really that’s all it was. Even the use of “Gravity” was telling in that it was a replay of an earlier song used for the pair. Their love story is so in the past that they don’t even get a new love song. That is what that scene, in fact what all of their scenes were about… memories.

That big moment, the one that was teased in the promo was that as well. She touched his face, not in some beautiful, romantic gesture, but because she was trying to use tactile memory to prod his recall. And when he held onto her hand and pulled her to him, she got caught up in the moment of the memory. And that is all it was; it wasn’t the feelings that she was caught in, but the *moment* and *memory* and there is a big difference there. Her feelings for him are akin to what she feels for Matt now. Her happiness that she felt isn’t because she is in love with him, but because the happiness that she found with Damon was close to being restored.

Remember before finding out about Stefan in the safe, Elena was happier than she’d been in literally years. Stefan in the safe was this dark cloud in her bright, blue sky. Once he gets his memory back, it’s blue skies again, but even without that, the fact that he’s once more on solid ground, he’s back in Mystic Falls, he’s home and that dark cloud is now only a pale grey. So, of course she’s going to be smiling and happy. It’s about Stefan, yes, but not because she’s in love with him but because she cares about him just as she does anyone else in their inner circle. We all heard her—she put Stefan in the exact same category as Matt, as the rest of those she cares about. He’s someone she loves, but he’s not *the* one she loves.

So knowing that, seeing that play out clearly, I did actually enjoy the Stefan/Elena scenes. There was just nothing there that pointed to a future unless you're a delusional Stefan/Elena fan. Everything we saw with them was purely nostalgia. Elena was trying to help a friend. Period. And because I saw absolutely zero threat to the Damon and Elena relationship I could enjoy seeing a happy!Elena. And good thing too because clearly that’s gone now. I get that Jeremy had to tell about Bonnie. Obviously I get that, and I’m glad that Damon didn’t keep it from Elena, but man, happy!Elena is gone, gone, gone now. *sigh* I really, really loved happy!Elena. Seeing her trying to remember which direction she bumped into Stefan coming out of the men’s room (*snort* yeah, what an epic first meeting, LOL!) or jumping on or falling off the roof with laughter, with smiles, with happiness on her face was great. *sigh* I’m gonna miss that girl. R.I.P. Happy!Elena. :( I’m sure Damon will still be able to pull smiles out of her, but it won’t be the same until crazy-cakes Quetsiyah manages to bring Bonnie back (yes, I’m banking on that, damnit!).

Speaking of dead!Bonnie… while I loved the first and final scene dealing with her death, I had some problem with the in-between scenes and the lack of others. So let’s deal with those first. I know that we got the second scene with Damon and Elena and that one was beautiful, wonderfully acted, really wrenching, well-done by Nina Dobrev, Ian Somerhalder and Kat Graham. (Bonnie watching the outside, blurry and at a distance, the obvious but heartbreaking metaphor for the distance she is from those she loves.)

 

However, that first small scene with Damon so baldly telling Elena that Bonnie was dead just felt wrong, for lack of a better word. It just didn’t feel right that Damon without any kind of preparation at all would just throw that out there. I mean, Jeremy prepared Damon, laid it out—which we’ve seen over and over that's how Elena’s brain works, she works things out, she makes sense of things like Damon—why wouldn't Damon have done something similar for Elena? Why not set her down, give her a drink, do something. But to just say "Bonnie's dead, Elena." I echoed Elena's 'whu?" And then it went to commercial and I was all "what the hell?" because really? That's how Damon tells her? Like that? And why wasn’t Jeremy there too? It just… was not good.

A better alternative would have been him sitting her down, softly telling her, "Elena, you need to listen to me." Him looking at her with those beautiful, sincere eyes of his. "This is going to be hard." {Pause, holding, squeezing her hand.} "Bonnie is dead, Elena." Just one more line there, a couple more actions, the getting her to sit down, the hand holds, preparing her for the ordeal. But just standing there, then "Bonnie's dead, Elena." It didn't work for me. Didn't work. I've watched it a few times now, and it just strikes me as flat-out wrong every time. Tonally, it was just wrong. The phrasing, the pausing was wrong. For me, it wasn't about Damon. It wasn't even about Elena. It wasn't about the characters, it was about the execution of the scene. It was poorly done in my opinion. I don't just watch the show with the characters in mind, but with the directing, writing and editing choices. I believe that while what Damon did was in character overall, the writing and direction was off and just the slightest bit I suggested above would have worked so much better for that moment.

*Sigh* And then it jumps to the next day, and Caroline knows so we miss out on her finding out and don’t see any kind of scene between her and Elena. Which we should have. One of my absolute favorite things about this show is that the friendship/families are almost always as important (and in the case of Damon and Stefan as important) as the love stories so to miss out on Elena and Caroline mourning the loss of Bonnie together for the first time was just unfathomable. I really do not understand that decision.

I mean, I like Caroline and Jesse, they’re sweet, but that scene with them studying could have been cut for an Elena/Caroline scene. Or, oh, the opening scene in the car with Stefan and Damon where Stefan recited a page of his journal that Elena read in episode 03 two seasons ago (yes, I remember). We should have had an Elena/Caroline scene alone, the two of them about Bonnie. We also should have had a scene with Jeremy and Elena… about Bonnie. And, oh Matt and Jeremy. Matt and Elena. So many permutations of these friends that should have been touched upon that were ignored so Stefan could have his zillionth ‘why, yes, I’m an asshole-pity-party’ tour!? Really?

Because, yes, Stefan had another ‘I’m an asshole-pity-party’ tour Did we really need the car scene with Damon? No. Or the bar scene with Damon? No. Or the tomb scene with Damon at that length? No. Or all of the Stefan/Elena scenes at that length? No. Or the length of the Stefan/Jesse scene? No. Anything to shave time off here and there so that we could have had more fall-out with the friends dealing with Bonnie’s death.

Now to be fair, we may get stuff in the next few episodes and it may be wonderful and it may in retrospect take away all but my frustration with how Damon told Elena about Bonnie because I just can’t see anything taking that away because that was just so wrong. I mean… wrong. However… the final scene with the friends was so, so, so, so *right* in just about every single possible way it could possibly be right. It was so, so, so, so right.

It was beautiful. Everything was just perfect. Just perfect. Perfection. From Caroline carrying the pom-poms which signified the cheerleading which was *their* thing to Matt having the whistle signifying the summer lifeguard jobs that was *their* thing. The grimmoire that Damon put in that cracked me up because, of course, what else would their thing be? But my favorite was Elena and the feathers. Those made me smile through my tears. Those feathers… ah, that still remains my favorite Elena/Bonnie scene, and one of my favorite moments from the show ever. Season 01, episode 08 (“162 Candles”) when Bonnie tells Elena that she’s a witch. The difference in seeing those feathers float then and here is heartbreaking.

 

And there was the way they did Bonnie speaking to them through Jeremy. Beginning with Jere speaking and then transitioning to Bonnie moving to them, talking and then the both of them speaking, and then just Bonnie and then the both again was very effective. And all the while, Elena, Caroline and Matt were looking at Jeremy as he spoke, but you could tell that they could feel Bonnie’s presence. It was beautifully done and it *conveyed* Bonnie’s presence, we could feel them feel her. And I loved what she said to every single one of them, how specific and perfect it was. Elena needed to not take the burden of taking care of the others, but she had to try to be happy and live her life. Caroline needed to be keep being Caroline. Matt needed to let go of his anger, because he does have the tendency to do that and hold on. And then there was Damon who she had no message for and I’m glad she didn’t because he didn’t deserve one, not from her even if he did deserve to be there and I’m glad that Stefan wasn’t there, because he didn’t deserve to be there not at this juncture. And I’m glad that Tyler (yes, I’m actually typing this, ya’ll!) was there. (I KNOW!) But I really am. When Bonnie said his name, and Caroline turned and he walked up, I smiled and Caroline ran to him and hugged him, I nodded to myself and thought, yeah, he should be here. Because he should.

Now, I just hope next week, he and Caroline put the official kibosh on their relationship. :D Because, yeah, her and Stefan need to be gettin’ to some gettin’ on because didja hear? Stefan thinks she’s hot. Uh huh.

 

Despite the above, sadly, I wasn’t overwhelmed with Stefan/Caroline feels. I did like that he thinks she’s hot. And I did like parts of their final scene (namely the hand-hold and the smiles at the end, see gifs below), but I had a few problems with their scenes too. Mainly… that after Caroline poured her heart out about losing her friend and her boyfriend basically deserting her, Stefan’s response was, oh, but it’s OK you have me. And I immediately flashed back to “Do Not Go Gentle” when Elena was falling apart and Stefan’s response was not that she had her brother, her friends, including him, but that “you have ME, only ME, just ME!!” And, fucker turns around and does the same thing to Caroline and here he is walking about with a one-day old memory and yet his self-absorbed, all-about-me mentality remains intact! GOD, Stefan, it's always JUST ABOUT YOU! Seriously, his entire world really does just revolve around one Stefan Salvatore. He is a planet unto himself. Stefan, Stefan, Stefan. :bangs head against desk:

Stefan, boo, why such an asshole? I mean, come on! Now, honestly, I might not have jumped straight to that had it not just come after that *lovely* (hint: that was sarcasm!) scene with Damon and Elena. However it had, and I was not happy with my Steffy-poo at this point. Let’s take a look at the situation here, mm'kay? Damon and Elena had basically dropped everything to help him and he then chose to crap all over them without actually knowing what the hell had happened. Instead he was basing his little pissy-pout on an extrapolation of events based on the barest of information upon which he then chose to make himself the victim and Damon the bad guy and Elena unworthy of support and trust. And now, he’s taking his toys and he’s going somewhere else to play, so there! Stefan, Stefan, Stefan! Again, boo, why such an asshole?

Sigh. But hey, at least, it means that the boarding house will remain the domain of Damon/Elena and Jeremy, and Damon and Jeremy while Elena is off at college. Speaking of… Damon and Jeremy. OH. MY. HEART!

SERIOUSLY! I DO NOT THINK I CAN HANDLE ALL THE DAMON/JEREMY FEELINGS THAT THIS SHOW IS GIVING ME THIS SEASON, YOU GUYS!!! It is just too beautiful for words!!!! Jeremy told Damon. Jeremy told Damon first! Because he trusts Damon. And then Damon heard it in his voice. When Jeremy said “People need to know,” Damon could hear it in his voice and he realized that Jeremy has been carrying this burden on his own all summer long. The way he just looked at him, the way he just walked to him and then he—then he.. GAWD!! He just hugged him and he cupped his head, and he practically stroked his hair. And it was …. OH. MY. GOD!

THE FEELS! IT WAS SO BEAUTIFUL!

 

Ahem. OK, so going back to Stefan and Caroline. So obviously, yes, I am upset with Stefan right now, but they are clearly doing some lovely set-up. Stefan doesn’t remember everything so he is seeing all things in a new light, including Caroline and we know he sees her in a “hot” light, and a trustworthy one. I don’t think that Tyler is going to be sticking around, and lord knows what’s going to happen with Jesse. I don’t expect things to happen quickly with Stefan and Caroline, but we’re clearly heading somewhere. Me likey!

 

I actually don’t have much to say about Damon and Elena because there really wasn’t much with them. I think they’re pretty solid. Damon showed a great amount of trust in simply leaving her alone with Stefan without a qualm. Obviously, I would have been happier had she not even been caught in the moment of the memory, but that lasted all of two seconds and absolutely nothing happened. And Damon also was awesome in telling her the truth about Bonnie right away. Ooh, I did like how Damon brushed her arm as he left the tomb though, just a small little moment, but niiiice. :)


Do I think that this whole situation with Stefan is done and over, finito with? Of course not. Elena does still care for Stefan. And I do think that she shouldn’t have even tried the memory lane trip with him because things are too fresh with him especially with the whole doppelganger thingie, so stuff will happen. And that will cause situations to arise, no doubt. And we will see how our duo handles it, but Damon’s been doing pretty durn good. :)

Alrighty then, heading into random thoughts –

- Hmm, Jeremy doing shirtless push-ups, it's not only witches from the other side who thank you. :D

- Alas, our streak of shirtless Damon ended with this episode. :(

- I did like how nonchalant Jesse acted after he kissed Caroline, but poor guy doesn’t stand a chance now I suppose with Tyler back and with this thing with Stefan starting up. Hmm.

- Oh, yeah, and now that he’s gonna be a vampire thanks to freaky, creepy Dr. Westfield!! OK, yeah, that ending certainly surprised me like whoah! I was *not* expecting anything like that!

- I am SO impressed with Zach Roerig. When playing creepy Gregor dude, everything about him changed. His body language, how he walked, his facial tics, everything. Impressive, and freaking scary.

- Uhm, four episodes in and I’ve had no Matt/Damon scenes. Wah! I know that Matt has been Damon’s proper little minion and followed orders, but I want to see them interact.

- Oh, another Matt note. Hmm, so I guess the Matt-seeing-dead-people was a one-time deal that was restricted to Vicki then.

- When Elena said about Stefan "He can't stay like this,” I just shook my head. *sigh* She still doesn't get it. This IS kinda the real Stefan. He can be a petty little shit when hurt. He’s not the most awesome dude that you think he is. The Stefan who played compassionate and sweet, understanding and always "respecting your choices" was as he once told her, the Stefan who was in love with her, i.e. the Stefan who wanted her to see only the best side of him and not the real Stefan, the complete Stefan, the good and the bad Stefan. How she can still be so blind about him is mind-boggling. Elena, Elena, Elena. What is not mind-boggling is why I could never, ever, ever ship this pair.

- When Stefan says things like “Damon stole his girl, blah, blah, blah” I feel as if it's like by putting the words in Stefan's mouth it allows the Stefan/Elena fans to still feel justified and keeps them hanging on even though it's not the truth. That way the writers aren’t being untrue to the story they are telling, but they are allowing one (small) faction of their (deluded) fanbase to keep holding on.

- I loved the final two shots of the memorial for Bonnie because they were beautiful framed. First of Jeremy and Bonnie's ghostly hand that we didn't see, and then did, and then the mourners in the frame of those clasped hands.

 

So another episode and this season continues to rock and intrigue. I did miss Katherine though. I did not miss Silas and Nadia though. (I also missed crazy-cakes Quetsiyah. She’s awesome!) I just hope I’m right and that we get some friends-mourning-Bonnie scenes in the next few episodes to make up for what we did NOT get in this episode.
 
 
 
x5valex5vale on October 25th, 2013 09:53 am (UTC)
SERIOUSLY! I DO NOT THINK I CAN HANDLE ALL THE DAMON/JEREMY FEELINGS THAT THIS SHOW IS GIVING ME THIS SEASON, YOU GUYS!!! I

Basically this is enough to keep me hooked for the entire season!

I also did love the scenes between Stefan and Damon and the way Damon broke the news about Bonnie's death to Elena. I know it felt "rushed" but honestly I think it was how I did want it to go. Plain and simple, without preparation.

I guess we disagree on this, but for the rest I agree with your review.
Arabian: Damon & Jeremy02arabian on October 25th, 2013 10:27 am (UTC)
I'm loving Damon and Jeremy so hard.

I didn't not enjoy the Damon/Stefan scenes, I just felt that Elena/Jeremy, Elena/Caroline, Elena/Matt, Jeremy/Matt scenes about Bonnie were more important in THIS episode so we could have lost one of those scenes (especially the first) or had time shaved off of those scenes and others to give us some of the friend-mourning scenes.

As for the telling Elena scene from Damon, yeah, we really disagree there. The only way I can wrap my brain around that is that Damon couldn't handle Bonnie's death so couldn't figure out how else to tell her, but Damon just didn't care about Bonnie that much to be effected that deeply, so it just does not fly with me. It's just so out of character and, like I said, it's just wrong. I just can't... it just did not work for me at all.
bangel_4e: harrybangel_4e on October 25th, 2013 09:57 am (UTC)
Ok, I'll get it out of my system..I'm not so sure those weren't feelings Elena felt for Stefan when she was about to kiss him. When he stopped her, she looked at him, knew they were about to kiss and closed her eyes before stopping. So, the thing is..during the day there were signs she was still a bit attracted to him (but I mean, it's her ex, it's normal) and then this happens.
She looked like she wanted to kiss him. But since I wanna be sure like you are, why do you it's just the moment and the memories? What makes you so sure? Cause I don't know, she could've just pulled away sooner but ugh, the other scenes were even cute...
Anyway, one thing has to be said: Elena kissed Damon while she was with Stefan but she didn't kiss Stefan when she was with Damon. lol


I'm gonna add other things later, I'm super late now!
Arabian: Elena04arabian on October 25th, 2013 10:24 am (UTC)
She closed her eyes before stopping because it was a 'what the hell am I doing, what is happening, this isn't happening, this isn't real, I'm not in the past, wake up, Elena' moment. Yes, she was feeling something, she was feeling the past. Her feelings for Stefan were very strong in the past and for the past few hours she had been reliving that past with him, of course, it was going to stir up tons of those feelings. That is what I meant by the memories. It was the feelings of those memories, the feeling of the moments of those memories. And then you do have to bring in the whole doppelganger thing, we know now that the universe/whatever has programmed these two to feel something so that does tie in. But it's not wrapped up in *Stefan* and *Elena,* it's wrapped up in the shadow selves of *Silas* and *Amara.* And, yeah, their other scenes were cute because that's what Elena and Stefan were... cute. That's all they ever were, high-school cute sweethearts. Puppy love, they never were anything more.

Edited at 2013-10-25 10:28 am (UTC)
(no subject) - bangel_4e on October 25th, 2013 12:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 27th, 2013 05:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bangel_4e on October 27th, 2013 11:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 28th, 2013 03:25 am (UTC) (Expand)
bangel_4e: damonbangel_4e on October 25th, 2013 01:18 pm (UTC)
As promised, more thoughts...

I disagree about how Damon told Elena. I like he told her right away and I get why he did, cause I probably would've done the same thing. I think in that moment, he just wanted to get it out all at once cause he couldn't bear it.
But I agree about Elena/Caroline and all the friendships that needed to have screen time.

However… the final scene with the friends was so, so, so, so *right* in just about every single possible way it could possibly be right. It was so, so, so, so right.

It was beautiful. Everything was just perfect. Just perfect. Perfection. From Caroline carrying the pom-poms which signified the cheerleading which was *their* thing to Matt having the whistle signifying the summer lifeguard jobs that was *their* thing. The grimmoire that Damon put in that cracked me up because, of course, what else would their thing be? But my favorite was Elena and the feathers. Those made me smile through my tears. Those feathers… ah, that still remains my favorite Elena/Bonnie scene, and one of my favorite moments from the show ever. Season 01, episode 08 (“162 Candles”) when Bonnie tells Elena that she’s a witch. The difference in seeing those feathers float then and here is heartbreaking.


I couldn't agree more. I was bawling like a crazy person..and that's insane cause everyone who heard me talking about TVD and Boone know I said "Can't she just die already?" for SO long...I couldn't stand her. And there I was, crying my eyes out. Especially at Nina Dobrev's acting...man, that girl kills me.
The scene..with Jeremy talking in her place...and then the switch to Bonnie talking..oh God, it was SO heartbreaking...and I didn't cry like this when Jeremy died :(


And I’m glad that Tyler (yes, I’m actually typing this, ya’ll!) was there. (I KNOW!) But I really am. When Bonnie said his name, and Caroline turned and he walked up, I smiled and Caroline ran to him and hugged him, I nodded to myself and thought, yeah, he should be here. Because he should.
I can't believe I'm joining you but I was glad too!! And I can't stand Tyler...and when Caroline flew to him I just kept crying like crazy.



I agree about the Stefan thing...I would NEVER offer consolation to a person who just lost someone saying "You have me", even to a response of what she said. I would feel a little egocentric. But Stefan tends to act like that.
I didn't even like that when Elena told him she was with Damon, he got mad and took off. REALLY? You have no memories and you EXPECT that she tells you everything and then when things don't go they way you want them to (her kissing you), you go crazy? I don't know, it's just weird for someone who has no memories. Pff.


SERIOUSLY! I DO NOT THINK I CAN HANDLE ALL THE DAMON/JEREMY FEELINGS THAT THIS SHOW IS GIVING ME THIS SEASON, YOU GUYS!!! It is just too beautiful for words!!!! Jeremy told Damon. Jeremy told Damon first! Because he trusts Damon. And then Damon heard it in his voice. When Jeremy said “People need to know,” Damon could hear it in his voice and he realized that Jeremy has been carrying this burden on his own all summer long. The way he just looked at him, the way he just walked to him and then he—then he.. GAWD!! He just hugged him and he cupped his head, and he practically stroked his hair. And it was …. OH. MY. GOD!

ME TOO!!! OMG! Jeremy chose to tell him first, and then Damon realizes the burden he had on his shoulders...and he turns around and for a minute I was scared there lol...and there he goes, hugging him close and comforting him. OH GOD!! It's too beautiful...and it was an amazing thing.

Arabian: Damon & Jeremy01arabian on October 27th, 2013 07:30 am (UTC)
I disagree about how Damon told Elena. I like he told her right away and I get why he did, cause I probably would've done the same thing.

I don't mind that Damon told her right away, I would have wanted him to, it was HOW it was done in terms of direction. I don't think I made myself clear enough in my original post. I've added a bit more to my post since. --

A better alternative would have been him sitting her down, softly telling her, "Elena, you need to listen to me." Him looking at her with those beautiful, sincere eyes of his. "This is going to be hard." {Pause, holding, squeezing her hand.} "Bonnie is dead, Elena." Just one more line there, a couple more actions, the getting her to sit down, the hand holds, preparing her for the ordeal. But just standing there, then "Bonnie's dead, Elena." It didn't work for me. Didn't work. I've watched it a few times now, and it just strikes me as flat-out wrong every time. Tonally, it was just wrong. The phrasing, the pausing was wrong. For me, it wasn't about Damon. It wasn't even about Elena. It wasn't about the characters, it was about the execution of the scene. It was poorly done in my opinion. I don't just watch the show with the characters in mind, but with the directing, writing and editing choices. I believe that while what Damon did was in character overall, the writing and direction was off and just the slightest bit I suggested above would have worked so much better for that moment.

I didn't even like that when Elena told him she was with Damon, he got mad and took off. REALLY? You have no memories and you EXPECT that she tells you everything and then when things don't go they way you want them to (her kissing you), you go crazy? I don't know, it's just weird for someone who has no memories. Pff.

I was OK with that because he didn't know that Elena was with Damon. And because Elena did, she was going by her memories and not thinking how it looked to him. And her memories that she was used to jog his were all tied up in their early relationship in which they were a couple and were in love so of course he was thinking they still were. To find out that not only weren't they together, but that she was with his brother was understandably upsetting, but then to keep that anger going and be such a petty asshole to them both later was what annoyed me.

ME TOO!!! OMG! Jeremy chose to tell him first, and then Damon realizes the burden he had on his shoulders...and he turns around and for a minute I was scared there lol...and there he goes, hugging him close and comforting him. OH GOD!! It's too beautiful...and it was an amazing thing.

I KNOW!! I KNOW!! I KNOW!!! SQUEEE!!!

Edited at 2013-10-27 07:38 am (UTC)
(no subject) - bangel_4e on October 27th, 2013 10:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 28th, 2013 03:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bangel_4e on October 28th, 2013 09:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
bangel_4e: elena2bangel_4e on October 25th, 2013 01:18 pm (UTC)

I don’t expect things to happen quickly with Stefan and Caroline, but we’re clearly heading somewhere. Me likey!
I also don't expect this but it looks like they're heading in that direction..and I like it SO MUCH. Oh, if these two could be endgame...


Damon showed a great amount of trust in simply leaving her alone with Stefan without a qualm.
Exactly. LOVED that.

Do I think that this whole situation with Stefan is done and over, finito with? Of course not. Elena does still care for Stefan. And I do think that she shouldn’t have even tried the memory lane trip with him because things are too fresh with him especially with the whole doppelganger thingie, so stuff will happen. And that will cause situations to arise, no doubt. And we will see how our duo handles it, but Damon’s been doing pretty durn good. :)

I appreciate the use of Italian, there...finito ;)
Anyway, yes...she does still care for him. And it won't be over until this tv show ends. I don't think it will be specifically the situation with Stefan that's gonna break them down but I do believe we have lots of issues to face...I guess we will have to endure until the end of season 6 :)


When Elena said about Stefan "He can't stay like this,” I just shook my head. *sigh* She still doesn't get it. This IS kinda the real Stefan. He can be a petty little shit when hurt. He’s not the most awesome dude that you think he is. The Stefan who played compassionate and sweet, understanding and always "respecting your choices" was as he once told her, the Stefan who was in love with her, i.e. the Stefan who wanted her to see only the best side of him and not the real Stefan, the complete Stefan, the good and the bad Stefan. How she can still be so blind about him is mind-boggling. Elena, Elena, Elena. What is not mind-boggling is why I could never, ever, ever ship this pair.

EXACTLY! That's Stefan without the memories. His personality is ALSO this. I agree this is one of the reason I could never ship Stelena. They look at the halo part...they are angels to each other, all and always good and perfect. There's no perfection. Everyone has a dark side, but love is working through it and let the light shine (Damon/Elena).
Stefan let her do ANYTHING so that he could always tell he was the good one...cause he couldn't stand to feel guilty and took that to extremes.
But I've always said...you don't let DIE the person you love cause they asked you to save a friend you don't care about. It doesn't make sense.
Arabian: Stefan & Katherine01arabian on October 27th, 2013 08:07 am (UTC)
Oh, if these two could be endgame...

I still think Stefan/Katherine could be a possibility, but I will dream of Stefan/Caroline. It depends on the reaction to

them of course. We'll see what happens this season, I guess! :D

I don't think it will be specifically the situation with Stefan that's gonna break them down but I do believe we have lots

of issues to face...I guess we will have to endure until the end of season 6 :)


*Sigh* Yeah. Well, I don't think it will be until the end of season 6. I'm hopeful that the romantic edge will be mostly

dealt with before the end of season 6 and that will be clear, with other big issues just left to be handled.

they are angels to each other, all and always good and perfect. There's no perfection. Everyone has a dark side, but love

is working through it and let the light shine (Damon/Elena). Stefan let her do ANYTHING so that he could always tell he was

the good one...cause he couldn't stand to feel guilty and took that to extremes.


Yup, yup, yup. Beautifully put.
(no subject) - bangel_4e on October 27th, 2013 10:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 28th, 2013 03:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bangel_4e on October 28th, 2013 09:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
dancing till the world ends: tvd: plus i work outlynnenne on October 25th, 2013 01:47 pm (UTC)
I loved all the Damon/Jeremy in this episode. Love love love. That and the feathers.
Arabian: Damon & Jeremy02arabian on October 27th, 2013 08:08 am (UTC)

I loved all the Damon/Jeremy in this episode. Love love love. That and the feathers.

The Damon/Jeremy made me so filled with heartful squee! The feathers made me tear up totally.
Florencia: DE (Against the Universe)florencia7 on October 25th, 2013 08:41 pm (UTC)
YAY! Thank you for posting your thoughts so fast! :D This just made my day ♥

”And that is all it was; it wasn’t the feelings that she was caught in, but the *moment* and *memory* and there is a big difference there.” - That's exactly how it felt to me too. Having seen the promo I was a little weary, but the way in which everything played out – it was quite perfect.

I'm glad Stefan at least got to see happy!Elena and hopefully once he gets his memories back he'll still remember seeing her like that.

Ha, and props to the writers for foreshadowing Stefan's memory loss back in 4x10. I didn't think they'd actually put that idea into action, so to speak.

”That’s how Damon tells her? Like that?” - I actually liked that he just told her. I think at that point throwing clues on her and making her figuring it out for 10 minutes would've actually been more painful. I don't know. Somehow just telling her felt OK to me.

”So many permutations of these friends that should have been touched upon” - I think the reason why we didn't get any of that may be that Bonnie is coming back!! ^^ It wasn't a final goodbye (well, from the characters' POV it was, but not from the show's), so too many mourning scenes weren't necessary. The final scene was BEAUTIFUL anyway. I absolutely loved the feathers most too ♥ Everyone & everything was perfect (including Tyler ;)

”It was beautifully done and it *conveyed* Bonnie’s presence, we could feel them feel her.” - Yes, exactly! I think it was a really fantastic scene all around. Just gorgeous. Best funeral so far (as weird as it sounds lol)

”GOD, Stefan, it's always JUST ABOUT YOU!” - But that was SO in character! Lol So I guess we shouldn't really have a problem with that ;D Also, I loved how Stefan and Caroline saw each other in a setting that was soooooooooo reminiscent of when&how they first met in 1x01 (when Stefan told her they'd never happen haha).

”SERIOUSLY! I DO NOT THINK I CAN HANDLE ALL THE DAMON/JEREMY FEELINGS THAT THIS SHOW IS GIVING ME THIS SEASON” - THIS ♥ It's almost hard to believe how many awesome scenes we got & it's only been 4 eps!

”Ooh, I did like how Damon brushed her arm as he left the tomb though, just a small little moment, but niiiice.” - I was SO counting on you to make a gif out of this moment, so THANK YOU! ^^

”I am SO impressed with Zach Roerig.” - Yes, he really is doing an amazing job! I'm more & more impressed with every episode (he just might have done a more awesome job with Silas than what Paul's doing) Still, I quite enjoyed memory!free!Stefan. I don't really know why, but there was something about him in this ep that felt more sincere. Maybe that's why.

Just heads up: don't read synopses for the upcoming eps. There is one in particular that is VERY spoiler-y. It's nothing *very* shocking, but still.

♥!
Arabian: Damon & Elena22arabian on October 27th, 2013 07:43 am (UTC)
YAY! Thank you for posting your thoughts so fast! :D This just made my day ♥

Well, I normally try to, just last week, you know....

That's exactly how it felt to me too. Having seen the promo I was a little weary, but the way in which everything played out – it was quite perfect.

I almost don't even want to watch the promos now honestly at this point. Geez! I'm tired of having stuff create misperceptions before the episodes air.

I'm glad Stefan at least got to see happy!Elena and hopefully once he gets his memories back he'll still remember seeing her like that.

He won't, and if he does, he'll just assume it's because she was with him. :rme:

I actually liked that he just told her.

I think that I didn't make it clear what I meant because it seems like everyone misunderstood me. I added more to my6 post to make it clear what I meant. I was fine with him just telling her, it was just the execution of it felt jarring and wrong.

A better alternative would have been him sitting her down, softly telling her, "Elena, you need to listen to me." Him looking at her with those beautiful, sincere eyes of his. "This is going to be hard." {Pause, holding, squeezing her hand.} "Bonnie is dead, Elena." Just one more line there, a couple more actions, the getting her to sit down, the hand holds, preparing her for the ordeal. But just standing there, then "Bonnie's dead, Elena." It didn't work for me. Didn't work. I've watched it a few times now, and it just strikes me as flat-out wrong every time. Tonally, it was just wrong. The phrasing, the pausing was wrong. For me, it wasn't about Damon. It wasn't even about Elena. It wasn't about the characters, it was about the execution of the scene. It was poorly done in my opinion. I don't just watch the show with the characters in mind, but with the directing, writing and editing choices. I believe that while what Damon did was in character overall, the writing and direction was off and just the slightest bit I suggested above would have worked so much better for that moment.

I think the reason why we didn't get any of that may be that Bonnie is coming back!!

But they don't know that, we don't know that and sure it will probably happen, but likely not until much later, possibly towards the end of the season and we deserved that NOW, in this episode. I just thought it was very poor choice.

too many mourning scenes weren't necessary.

Agreed, but an Elena/Caroline one *was* necessary. But again, we may get something next week, but arrggh!, not getting Caroline finding out really rubbed me the wrong way, like she's a secondary character and her finding out didn't matter.

But that was SO in character! Lol So I guess we shouldn't really have a problem with that ;D

Oh, I agree. And I was bitching, but it was totally in character, and I was bitching with love, LOL! I mean, I did say "Stefan, boo! why you gotta be such an asshole?" He may be an asshole, but he's still my boo!

Also, I loved how Stefan and Caroline saw each other in a setting that was soooooooooo reminiscent of when&how they first met in 1x01 (when Stefan told her they'd never happen haha).

I totally missed that, hah! Thank you for pointing that out, but so, so, so true!

I was SO counting on you to make a gif out of this moment, so THANK YOU! ^^

It was the only remotely romantic/sexy D/E moment we got in the entire episode, LOL! Had to snag it.

don't read synopses for the upcoming eps.

I don't read those or look at stills if I can avoid them either.
faith5by5_1013: The Vampire Diaries: Carolinefaith5by5_1013 on October 25th, 2013 10:27 pm (UTC)
Well, tonight proved something definitively. Staying away from tumblr, spoilers, speculation, etc. has been the right call.

I wish I had the strength to do that. I just don't. With some shows, you end up knowing everything important that's going to happen before it happens and with other shows, they lead you to believe things are going to happen that actually don't end up happening... It's very frustrating. But I have very poor self control when it comes to spoilers.

So many permutations of these friends that should have been touched upon that were ignored so Stefan could have his zillionth ‘why, yes, I’m an asshole-pity-party’ tour!? Really?

That frustrated me too.

GOD, Stefan, it's always JUST ABOUT YOU! Seriously, his entire world really does just revolve around one Stefan Salvatore. He is a planet unto himself. Stefan, Stefan, Stefan.

Yep. It's one of those reasons Stefan really frustrates me.

Damon could hear it in his voice and he realized that Jeremy has been carrying this burden on his own all summer long. The way he just looked at him, the way he just walked to him and then he—then he.. GAWD!! He just hugged him and he cupped his head, and he practically stroked his hair. And it was …. OH. MY. GOD!

That part was beautiful.

Oh, yeah, and now that he’s gonna be a vampire thanks to freaky, creepy Dr. Westfield!! OK, yeah, that ending certainly surprised me like whoah! I was *not* expecting anything like that!

Yeah, that took me completely by surprise too.

I am SO impressed with Zach Roerig. When playing creepy Gregor dude, everything about him changed. His body language, how he walked, his facial tics, everything. Impressive, and freaking scary.

I know! I'm so glad they're letting him do new things this season!
Arabian: Matt02arabian on October 27th, 2013 06:21 am (UTC)
It's one of those reasons Stefan really frustrates me.

It's frustrating, but for me it's mostly in a lovably frustrated way. He's like a child I love. He's just a child who needs to grow and learn.

I'm so glad they're letting him do new things this season!

I've been really happy with what they've been doing with Matt since mid-season 03. I think once they allowed him to become Elena's touchstone to her goodness, I guess, and then eventually Jeremy's and almost everyone's (Caroline's, Bonnie's and Rebeka's, maybe Damon's eventually's), he found his place. But, yes, I am LOVING this story he has this season too. It's more tangible, and not just as the human soul of Mystic Falls.
tj2013tj2013 on October 26th, 2013 09:56 am (UTC)
Loved your recap, and you nailed it down perfectly, as usual. Wonderful gifs, thank you!!

I think since Season 2 and part S3 was Damon's transition (so to speak), and S4 was Elena's, so S5 will be Stefan's. Without memory he finally needs to find out who he really is, what or who he wants. I guess S5 will be Stefan's journey to himself. He was on that road once before, but in Season 3 he wasn't ready for it.

Someone else above said that maybe we didn't get the Bonnie-mourning because she will come back. Hmm...

Arabian: Bonnie02arabian on October 27th, 2013 05:50 am (UTC)
Thank you. I don't go overboard with the gifs on the episode post, just try and get those key moments, you know?

I think season 3 was kinda a mix of transition for both Damon and Elena. And, yeah, I think you're right that this might be the one for Stefan, and it's about time!

Someone else above said that maybe we didn't get the Bonnie-mourning because she will come back. Hmm...

Possible, but I still feel cheated because they don't know that. Just kinda bugs. Grr.
(no subject) - tj2013 on October 27th, 2013 09:19 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 27th, 2013 10:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - tj2013 on October 27th, 2013 11:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 28th, 2013 03:27 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
Arabian: Damon13arabian on October 26th, 2013 09:02 pm (UTC)
I appreciate that you liked my earlier reviews, but I don't think you quite got my issue here.

I didn't want Damon to do the things you suggest as an alternative. What Jeremy did, making things make sense to Damon, making Damon figure it out himself THAT is how Elena makes sense of things herself. That is HOW Elena deals with things. That is one of the things that Damon and Elena have in common. So had the scene ended with Damon saying Elena you need to sit down... then fade to black going into the bedroom scene, I would have been fine. That is one alternative. Because we wouldn't have needed the repeat of the Damon/Jeremy scene. But for Damon to just say that baldly, no Damon doesn't do that. He doesn't do bald-faced things. No, he doesn't sugar-coat things, but he gives some kind of breather, some kind of .... something. A flowery speech? Would have been hella out of character.

A better alternative would have been... Sitting her down telling her, "Elena, you need to listen to me." That would have been in character. Telling her, "This is going to be hard." {Pause} "Bonnie is dead, Elena" That would have been in character. Just one more line there, one more action move, the getting her to sit down, preparing her for the ordeal. But just standing there, then "Bonnie's dead, Elena." It didn't work for me. Didn't work. That's my opinion, I've watched it a few times now, and it just strikes me as flat-out wrong every time.

Being brutally honest and not sugar coating are not opposites. Damon can be one and not be the other at the same time. He can still be brutally honest, which I expected and wanted from him, without the latter--which I would never expect or want from him. Baldly stating something like *that* to Elena is not what I expect from him and not what we've ever gotten from him in any type of similar situation. He doesn't do that. Tonally, it was just wrong. The phrasing, the pausing was wrong.
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - arabian on October 27th, 2013 05:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on October 27th, 2013 12:57 pm (UTC)
I think I'm gonna need an LJ account so I could comment on your reviews not anonymously, cuz I read them all anyway. ))) I'll throw in my two cents, sorry in advance if my english will suck. ))

A better alternative would have been him sitting her down, softly telling her, "Elena, you need to listen to me." Him looking at her with those beautiful, sincere eyes of his. "This is going to be hard." {Pause, holding, squeezing her hand.} "Bonnie is dead, Elena." Just one more line there, a couple more actions, the getting her to sit down, the hand holds, preparing her for the ordeal.

Yeah, the way you put it much better than what we got on the show. I agree.

Stefan, boo, why such an asshole?
I'm wondering - does amnesia make you a different person? Cuz Stefan forgot that he's supposed to be good, forgot his guilt - does this means he's not wholly who he is? Will everyone explain Stefan's actions as him being not himself? Again. Cuz as a viewer I saw Stefan with memories, guilt and humanity intact who behaved like that. And what weird to me - why the hell he was so butthurt about Elena being with Damon - when he has NO memories of her, their relationships and has no idea why they broke up. (Doppelganger Destiny Thing? )))))

What else rubbed me the wrong way was what Stefan said to Elena at the Bridge -" It's working, your distraction, the hunger is settled, I dont want to feed anymore." And then, after Elena told him the whole I'm-with-Damon thing - Stefan told her - "And just like that the hunger returns." It's like it Elena's fault that she upset him and now he's gonna go and rip people apart. Looked like emotional blackmail - like Elena is responsible for keeping him in check. And I dunno - is it supposed to be romantic that Stefan's hunger subsides around Elena? Cuz it seems like unhealthy foundation of codependency to me.

Oh, and have you noticed how much of Stefan's dialogue in Stelena scenes was basically Paul Wesley's lines from countless interviews, where he kinda complained about TVD? "I'm 163 and I'm in a highschool!", " I bored you to death?", "Why haven't I saved you the second time? (You saved my friend instead.) So I'm an idiot?" The writers let PW let it out on screen it seems.

SERIOUSLY! I DO NOT THINK I CAN HANDLE ALL THE DAMON/JEREMY FEELINGS THAT THIS SHOW IS GIVING ME THIS SEASON, YOU GUYS!!!

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!!!! Jer telling Damon first. And when Damon started walking to Jer with this murderous expression on his fase - I was scared! - but Jeremy didn't even blink, show no fear, not even the littlest uncertainty - he trusts Damon. Myyyyyyy baaabyyyyys!

Ups, too long for one comment!
Arabian: Stefan03arabian on October 28th, 2013 04:00 am (UTC)
I think I'm gonna need an LJ account so I could comment on your reviews not anonymously, cuz I read them all anyway. ))) I'll throw in my two cents, sorry in advance if my english will suck. ))

Aww, that would be awesome if you joined. :) Don't apologize, your English is great, better than any other language I'd try!

I'm wondering - does amnesia make you a different person? Cuz Stefan forgot that he's supposed to be good, forgot his guilt - does this means he's not wholly who he is?

No, this is who he is, it's just not who he is when he's pretending to be perfect with Elena. This is the same guy we see with Damon, with Jeremy, with Caroline and with Rebekah. He can be sweet, and good and funny, but he can also be an asshole. Right now, he's hurt, so he's being petty and an asshole, but he always hid that part of himself from Elena and because of his guilt weighing him down, he TRIED to be a better person with everyone else. So he would always push his nobler intentions to the top and try and subdue his less than noble instincts because of his guilt.

why the hell he was so butthurt about Elena being with Damon - when he has NO memories of her, their relationships and has no idea why they broke up. (Doppelganger Destiny Thing? )))))

Because she was a pretty girl who in his mind was probably his girlfriend and she was flirting with him and he thought, hey, cool, and then all of a sudden he finds out she's not with him any more, but now she's with his older, cooler, bad-ass brother and he feels like he's been played for a fool. He feels like an idiot. His pride is hurt. He's a guy who liked a girl, who he thought liked him, who thought he was gonna get some action and then boom!, nope she likes your brother. It hurt.

What else rubbed me the wrong way was what Stefan said to Elena at the Bridge -" It's working, your distraction, the hunger is settled, I dont want to feed anymore." And then, after Elena told him the whole I'm-with-Damon thing - Stefan told her - "And just like that the hunger returns."

Basically, his sex drive replaced his hunger drive and then when that was taken away, his drive to feed was returned, and it was fueled by anger as well. Plus, yeah, he was being a jerk. Yup.

is it supposed to be romantic that Stefan's hunger subsides around Elena? Cuz it seems like unhealthy foundation of codependency to me.

It's not supposed to be romantic, it's just another sign that yes, Stefan and Elena have an incredibly unhealthy relationship.

Oh, and have you noticed how much of Stefan's dialogue in Stelena scenes was basically Paul Wesley's lines from countless interviews, where he kinda complained about TVD? "I'm 163 and I'm in a highschool!", " I bored you to death?", "Why haven't I saved you the second time? (You saved my friend instead.) So I'm an idiot?" The writers let PW let it out on screen it seems.

I think it was a way of addressing how unhealthy Stefan/Elena really are, and that yes, these two really are just teenagers with a teenage-mentality of TWU WUV who JUST DON'T GET just how wrong and unhealthy it is.
(Anonymous) on October 27th, 2013 01:01 pm (UTC)
Second part. (Can't help myself! )))))

One of my absolute favorite things about this show is that the friendship/families are almost always as important (and in the case of Damon and Stefan as important) as the love stories so to miss out on Elena and Caroline mourning the loss of Bonnie together for the first time was just unfathomable.

Well it's not uncommon to this writers tbh. I was very disappointed with 423 cuz we haven't got the scene with Elena finding out about Jeremy, with their reunion. It was such an iportant storyline for Elena's character - the whole break down and heartbreak she went through and it didn't got proper emotional closure. Too much cliffhangers in the final episode and no time to close Elena's biggest emotional arc. I was hoping 501 will fix this but no. It fills like they just left this storyline hanging and it kinda takes away some of it's meaning.

Because, yeah, her and Stefan need to be gettin’ to some gettin’ on because didja hear? Stefan thinks she’s hot. Uh huh.

Yeah! What's also interesting is that as Stefan told us - he's been studying pictures and he immediately remember Caroline Forbes, but he asks Elena at the Grill to remind him her name! )))

I am SO impressed with Zach Roerig. When playing creepy Gregor dude, everything about him changed. His body language, how he walked, his facial tics, everything. Impressive, and freaking scary.

Hell yeah! Zach never got the chance to show what he is capable of before! And when he's got to play something different from the busboy - he proved to be much more then mediocre actor. Ironically, cuz it supposed to be Paul Wesley's opportunity to shine as Silas this season, but as it turns out Zach and Nina are waaay better at this.

I also was pleased that we finally got a Mama Salvatore reference. I was waiting this for so long! Now we know that she died of consumption. Not the way it was on the books. (Though my head canon always was that she died during her transition into a vampire - may be she refused to complete the transition or her husband didn't let her - which explanes his hatred towards vampires as he lost his wife to them.)
Arabian: Damon&Stefan02arabian on October 28th, 2013 04:33 am (UTC)
Well it's not uncommon to this writers tbh.

No, it's very uncommon actually. The situation you describe with Jeremy is one of the very few times they've done this. And I think they made that decision based on a lot of factors. We'd already seen Elena reunite with Jeremy (and Alaric in the previous episode), yes, he wasn't back for good, but we had the reunion scene, both happy-sad at the grave, and happy, in the graveyard picnic. While finding out he was alive-alive would have been wonderful, it would have been one or two lines that wouldn't have added much much other than an additional emotional scene (which again would have been awesome), but we'd already had that emotion in the earlier scenes and they had so much to cover. And they had the timejump to go with. I would have preferred that they had flashbacks to do certain scenes in the premiere, but I understand why they made the call they did. And honestly, I don't feel gypped in the Jeremy/Elena department because of the radiant happiness that came from Elena. That wasn't just because of Damon, that was because of Jeremy too.


I was very disappointed with 423 cuz we haven't got the scene with Elena finding out about Jeremy, with their reunion. It was such an iportant storyline for Elena's character - the whole break down and heartbreak she went through and it didn't got proper emotional closure.

Again, I felt that we did get that closure, but I completely understand why you didn't feel the same.

Still it doesn't change the fact that this is a very rare occurence for this show and quite uncommon. It's far more often that the familial and friendship angle is given as much credence as the romantic angle (and definitely far more than many other television shows).

Yeah! What's also interesting is that as Stefan told us - he's been studying pictures and he immediately remember Caroline Forbes, but he asks Elena at the Grill to remind him her name! )))

Very good point!

Hell yeah! Zach never got the chance to show what he is capable of before! And when he's got to play something different from the busboy - he proved to be much more then mediocre actor. Ironically, cuz it supposed to be Paul Wesley's opportunity to shine as Silas this season, but as it turns out Zach and Nina are waaay better at this.

Yup, Paul once again has been given the chance to shine, and it's fallen flat. Zach in just a few scenes has been flying high on the other hand!

(Though my head canon always was that she died during her transition into a vampire - may be she refused to complete the transition or her husband didn't let her - which explanes his hatred towards vampires as he lost his wife to them.)

My head canon is slightly similar. It's that she is a vampire and took off in isolation, unaware that her sons are vampires as well. That is why Guisieppi hates vampires, yes. And eventually, yeah, she'll show up. Uh huh!
MaelJ0714: facemaelj0714 on October 28th, 2013 05:48 pm (UTC)
Seriously, have I mentioned how GREAT your reviews are?!? You literally had me laughing out loud and nodding my head emphatically so many times while reading this. You should be on the CW’s payroll. Moving on now that that is out of the way….

Everything that happened between them was about their past and about her present happiness in her life—which she has found with Damon—and nothing to do with any great love she shares with Stefan.

*Completely agree. This was all about the memories for Elena -- revisiting a simpler, more innocent time in her life before vampires, witches and doppelgangers when Stefan had helped her get over the death of her parents. Of course she would be moved by the feelings those memories elicited. But they were just memories. The show made a pretty good point of this by reusing the song ‘Gravity.’ To me, though, those feelings pretty quickly dissipated at his reaction when she told him she was with Damon.

“And the hunger returns.” WOW. Immediately laying the blame for his own issues on her. I mean, talk about self-righteous. And personally, I thought he was coming on to her a little strong in these scenes. Maybe he didn’t see the arm brush Damon gave Elena in the tomb (I love that he just HAS to touch her…) but why wouldn’t Stefan assume the two were together? At least ask? And she kept that knowledge from him, protecting him as this fragile….snowflake?? :-D When he found out, he reacted just as badly as she feared. Not only did he vilify Damon, as he always does (STOLE my girlfriend) but he now vilifies Elena (and she LET him). These two are just not good together at all.

Yeah, Stefan was hard to love in this episode.

In the opening scene, I know that Stefan wanted to find something good about himself after learning he was a mass murderer who killed his own father; but instead of saying, “Was I at least fun when I wasn’t ripping people’s heads off?”, he says he must be ‘the fun brother’ to Damon’s ‘safe brother.’ He defines himself in comparison to his brother BEFORE Stefan even *knows* who he is. Damon is the measuring stick that Stefan must be bigger than, better than, more than. Damon, however, does not feel this way at all. He just took personal offense that someone was questioning his ability to PARTY HARD. I mean, the man has a reputation. ;-D

However, that first small scene with Damon so baldly telling Elena that Bonnie was dead just felt wrong, for lack of a better word. It just didn’t feel right that Damon without any kind of preparation at all would just throw that out there.

Damon’s the kind of guy to just rip the band-aid off, get it out there and get it over with, isn’t he? :-) I would have also liked for him to have somehow softened the blow a bit, but I think this was meant to show just how REAL a character he is. He didn’t skirt around the issue as he did with Stefan/Silas and Katherine (‘cause that didn’t work out so well); he was brutally honest, didn’t whitewash the situation or give her false hope. He just got it out there so they could start dealing with the ramifications of it as soon as possible. Quick, but he knew there was nothing he could do to make it painless.

ETA: Reading your responses to others since commenting (guess that's what I get for being a late-comer!), I love your alternatives, especially the "You need to sit down"/fade to black. I do agree that, while this was in character for Damon, it could have been handled so much better.

Compared to Caroline and Stefan….




Edited at 2013-10-28 06:33 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Stefan02arabian on October 30th, 2013 05:04 am (UTC)
Seriously, have I mentioned how GREAT your reviews are?!? You literally had me laughing out loud and nodding my head emphatically so many times while reading this. You should be on the CW’s payroll.

Thank you so much. Sure, send that suggestion to the CW. I wouldn't mind some more income, LOL!

Moving on now that that is out of the way….

Completely agree. This was all about the memories for Elena -- revisiting a simpler, more innocent time in her life

Nice to know I'm not the only one who totally saw it that way as well.

The show made a pretty good point of this by reusing the song ‘Gravity.’

That was SUCH a perfect way to illustrate that point. I mean, it was perfect. I don't think they could have made it any clearer honestly than that by re-using that song.

I thought he was coming on to her a little strong in these scenes.

I didn't think he was. Elena was flashing back to stuff that was clearly when they were dating, talking about when they were dating. It was a reasonable assumption that they were still together. Frankly, Elena handled that ALL wrong. She really did.

why wouldn’t Stefan assume the two were together?

Why would he? Damon is his brother? When Elena walks up, she walks up to where Stefan is sitting, not Damon. Doesn't move to Damon's side. The first thing she says is, "you didn't tell him about me?" She's closer in age to Stefan than Damon, and then she spends all morning reliving their early days of dating. Of course, he's going to assume she's dating him, not Damon.

he reacted just as badly as she feared. Not only did he vilify Damon, as he always does (STOLE my girlfriend) but he now vilifies Elena (and she LET him). These two are just not good together at all.

No, they're not, and yes, he reacted badly... BUT, Damon and Elena should have started his memory loss with him KNOWING that Damon and Elena were together, they expected the worst of him, they handled him like a special snowflake and set him up to react badly in the first place. Had they just said. OK, I'm your brother, she's my girlfriend, it's kinda crazy, cuz she's also your ex, but we're not gonna go into that now, that would have saved a lot of those issues that popped up. Instead, they kept him in the dark, and Elena spent hours strolling down memory lane, beaming and smiling and essentially letting Stefan think that they were a *thing.* Not cool. Intentional or not. And I know it wasn't, but still not cool.

ETA: Reading your responses to others since commenting (guess that's what I get for being a late-comer!), I love your alternatives, especially the "You need to sit down"/fade to black. I do agree that, while this was in character for Damon, it could have been handled so much better.

Yeah, and that's my point. It was the execution, not that he told her, because of course he would.

Edited at 2013-10-30 05:07 am (UTC)
(no subject) - maelj0714 on October 30th, 2013 02:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 31st, 2013 09:34 am (UTC) (Expand)
MaelJ0714: facemaelj0714 on October 28th, 2013 05:52 pm (UTC)
Last part....I mean it!! :-D

And, fucker turns around and does the same thing to Caroline and here he is walking about with a one-day old memory and yet his self-absorbed, all-about-me mentality remains intact! GOD, Stefan, it's always JUST ABOUT YOU! Seriously, his entire world really does just revolve around one Stefan Salvatore. He is a planet unto himself. Stefan, Stefan, Stefan. :bangs head against desk:

I loved that when Stefan says “You have me” (Seriously, you were so HILARIOUS about this!! LOL! ) and tells Caroline it is okay, she immediately shakes her head and contradicts him because -- No, it’s not okay and never will be for any of them. She doesn’t let him get away with that. You’ve noted before how REAL they are TOGETHER. I loved their scenes and am so glad they are going there. YAY!!!

SERIOUSLY! I DO NOT THINK I CAN HANDLE ALL THE DAMON/JEREMY FEELINGS THAT THIS SHOW IS GIVING ME THIS SEASON, YOU GUYS!!! It is just too beautiful for words!!!! Jeremy told Damon. Jeremy told Damon first! Because he trusts Damon.

THIS. SO. HARD!! SQUEEEEE!!! Damon was so frustrated and angry with Jeremy for going there but hurting so much for him at the same time. And I love Jeremy’s face as Damon approaches him in that first .gif. Not at all worried or afraid – as he well should be, because as much as Damon has changed, he is still one volatile, unpredictable vampire. But Jeremy trusts Damon. LOVE IT.

…Or the length of the Stefan/Jesse scene? No. Anything to shave time off here and there so that we could have had more fall-out with the friends dealing with Bonnie’s death.

Yeah. I felt the same about the scene with Damon explaining the plague and strings and bells. Maybe it was needed with the town gathering and all the bell ringing, but that in-depth? And as much as I enjoy watching Damon (really, Ian Somerholder could read the dictionary and I'd be happy), they could have made better use of that screen time.

When Stefan says things like “Damon stole his girl, blah, blah, blah” I feel as if it's like by putting the words in Stefan's mouth it allows the Stefan/Elena fans to still feel justified and keeps them hanging on even though it's not the truth.

YESSSS!!!! :Pointing furiously at screen and shaking monitor: So Frustrating! Equally as frustrating is Elena telling Stefan the reason they broke up was because she became a vampire. ARGHH!! They broke up because she fell in love with Damon! Becoming a vampire only helped her see Damon in a different light and accept that her feelings for him were okay. I really hope over the next two seasons, SOMETHING happens that causes Elena to finally admit this. Yes. For Me. For My Personal Satisfaction. :-D


Edited at 2013-10-28 06:33 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Elena10arabian on October 30th, 2013 05:37 am (UTC)
I loved that when Stefan says “You have me” (Seriously, you were so HILARIOUS about this!! LOL! ) and tells Caroline it is okay, she immediately shakes her head and contradicts him because -- No, it’s not okay and never will be for any of them. She doesn’t let him get away with that. You’ve noted before how REAL they are TOGETHER. I loved their scenes and am so glad they are going there. YAY!!!

Yup, they really do just work. Part of why they work is that Stefan can be himself with her, including that petty, awful part of himself and it's OK because Caroline is petty and awful that way too (I say this with love because I do love her, but it's true). And that's a really good point you bring up. Caroline doesn't let him get away with this kinda of BS whereas Elena just swims in that river of denial with him. Ugh!

Damon was so frustrated and angry with Jeremy for going there but hurting so much for him at the same time. And I love Jeremy’s face as Damon approaches him in that first .gif. Not at all worried or afraid – as he well should be, because as much as Damon has changed, he is still one volatile, unpredictable vampire. But Jeremy trusts Damon. LOVE IT.

*sigh*

I felt the same about the scene with Damon explaining the plague and strings and bells. Maybe it was needed with the town gathering and all the bell ringing, but that in-depth? And as much as I enjoy watching Damon (really, Ian Somerholder could read the dictionary and I'd be happy), they could have made better use of that screen time.

Right, like giving it to Elena and Caroline. We really should have had an Elena/Caroline scene. Honestly even Elena just walking up to Caroline and looking at her, Caroline smiling and then her smiling fading as Elena's dead expression didn't fade. End scene. That would have been enough. That would have been perfect actually. Ugh. I'm just so frustrated that we got NOTHING.

Equally as frustrating is Elena telling Stefan the reason they broke up was because she became a vampire. ARGHH!! They broke up because she fell in love with Damon!

Yes to the first part which I was going to comment on, but didn't, but I don't agree with the second. I don't think that Elena and Stefan broke up because of Damon at all. Well a teeny bit, but I think they broke up because Elena grew up. She and Stefan grew apart in those 4 months he was gone over the summer and the month or so he came back and stayed away. Elena grew stronger, learned to stop burying her head in the sand, make her own choices. She became an adult, someone who *could* fall in love with Damon, and that was a girl who (a) Stefan could never love and (b) could never love Stefan not without blinders on. And that's why those blinders came back on at the end of season 03, beginning of season 04 in order for them to even try and why things fell apart so quickly and they broke up practically right away because she just wasn't the same girl any more. Even if she hadn't been a vampire, she and Stefan still would have broken up, I'm sure of it.

I really hope over the next two seasons, SOMETHING happens that causes Elena to finally admit this. Yes. For Me. For My Personal Satisfaction. :-D

Agreed, that needs to happen... for Elena's growth, and Stefan and Damon's too actually.
(no subject) - maelj0714 on October 30th, 2013 03:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 31st, 2013 09:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
Bogwitch: Meg and Mog - Mog [new]bogwitch on November 9th, 2013 10:30 pm (UTC)
This comment starts with my old excuse for it's lateness...

This comment is late due to Halloween and Halloween challenges at my Spuffy LJ comm completely taking over my life for the last two weeks. I did write this comment out freehand at the time but it took this long to find the time to type it up, so if things have been a little superseded or said by everyone else by now, that’s why.

I think I have to align myself with the group of fans that weren’t all that enamoured with this ep, not because it was bad though, I just wasn’t into watching Stefan’s trip down memory lane nor was I particularly concerned about Bonnie’s woes (because I am just not feeling her absence in the way we felt Jeremy’s, because she’s more or less still around). I’m typing this knowing that her death is leading to plotty things through Damon’s deal with Silas and Katherine’s demise, but when I actually wrote this comment last week I couldn’t help but feeling that the only reason Bonnie is dead and on the Other Side is because later plot requires someone to be there and it’s not so much about Bonnie herself. Obviously, we now know it’s led to all these things about getting her back, but we’ve been in this place before so we’ll see if there isn’t more to it.

I didn’t have any problem with the way Damon told Elena about Bonnie, but I would have liked the scene with Caroline, although I’m not convinced it would have necessarily told us anything that wasn’t covered in the funeral scene; I actually found the Damon/Jeremy hug way more jarring [though I have since been put straight on that]. However, while I believe Bonnie’s story in this episode should have been way more front and centre than it was, I’m actually glad we didn’t get all those reaction scenes as I felt the funeral itself was drawn out too long as it was even if I think she should have warned Damon to look out for her friends and Elena at the very least – I like to think she did, just that we didn’t see it.

I’m so glad Stefan wasn’t there. Stefan without his memories is… a dick. We’ve seen this side of him before, but there was always a reason (if there wasn’t an excuse) for his behaviour, but unburdened with his memories, we’re left with someone just really unpleasant (he’s meant to be ‘pure’ of heart. Pffft). I miss calm, sagely Stefan, even if it was all just pretence.

One thing this episode did settle is now I know that my problem with Matt is definitely with Matt himself rather than Zach, who did alright with Gregor (much better than Paul is doing with Silas). Which makes sense as book Matt bores me silly as well.

I guessed Jesse was going to be vamped the moment Caroline fed him her blood. The show is slipping in the twist department! I really hope Dr Maxfield isn’t sewing monsters together into a big green Frankenstein creation. One of them was quite enough for my lifetime. :)
Arabian: Bonnie02arabian on November 13th, 2013 10:44 am (UTC)
I suppose maybe because I love Bonnie so much and I think that Kat Graham and Steven R. McQueen are doing a good job relaying that loss that I am feeling the loss of Bonnie, plus I think that Kat and Zach Roerig's Matt (not your fave) were really effective in the earlier episode when Matt died on the other side making me feel. So it has effected me. And I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop, waiting for the others to find out. As for Stefan's trip down memory lane, I think it was effective for me because I saw it for what I believe it was clearly intended to be (what with "Gravity" being used): showign that Stefan/Elena are in the PAST. I thought it was a very beautiful way of doing that actually. (I just need the heavy S/E focus portion to be over now, thank you very much.)

I didn’t have any problem with the way Damon told Elena about Bonnie

I really did. It just needed a teeny bit more (like the alternative I described above *) but it was too abrupt. I should NOT have been pulled out of the scene and I was and more than a few other people were. So clearly, there was something that didn't quite work there. That moment should have been perfect. And it wasn't.

* If you just copied/pasted this, you may have not seen my ETA alternative: A better alternative would have been him sitting her down, softly telling her, "Elena, you need to listen to me." Him looking at her with those beautiful, sincere eyes of his. "This is going to be hard." {Pause, holding, squeezing her hand.} "Bonnie is dead, Elena." Just one more line there, a couple more actions, the getting her to sit down, the hand holds, preparing her for the ordeal. But just standing there, then "Bonnie's dead, Elena." It didn't work for me. Didn't work. I've watched it a few times now, and it just strikes me as flat-out wrong every time. Tonally, it was just wrong. The phrasing, the pausing was wrong. For me, it wasn't about Damon. It wasn't even about Elena. It wasn't about the characters, it was about the execution of the scene. It was poorly done in my opinion. I don't just watch the show with the characters in mind, but with the directing, writing and editing choices. I believe that while what Damon did was in character overall, the writing and direction was off and just the slightest bit I suggested above would have worked so much better for that moment.

but I would have liked the scene with Caroline, although I’m not convinced it would have necessarily told us anything that wasn’t covered in the funeral scene

Actually, I realized while I desperately needed an Elena/Caroline scene, it just needed to be SUPER-SHORT: Elena just walking up to Caroline and looking at her, Caroline smiling and then her smiling fading as Elena's dead expression didn't fade. End scene. So simple, but just the hint of what's to come. I just needed something. *sigh*

However, while I believe Bonnie’s story in this episode should have been way more front and centre than it was, I’m actually glad we didn’t get all those reaction scenes

I didn't need a bunch of reaction scenes. Like I said, just the little bit more with Damon/Elena, one more line, a few more actions, that little bit of Elena and Caroline. And that's it.

as I felt the funeral itself was drawn out too long

Well, obviously, I disagree. I adored everything about the funeral scene.

I’m so glad Stefan wasn’t there.

YES!
Alisha: DC Joey/Pacey Comfortkalishaka on October 13th, 2014 06:34 pm (UTC)
My emotions were all over the place this episode.

Because I am watching the gifs play out above me, I am going to start with the Bonnie memorial. It was perfectly handled. I wasn't sure about how I would feel. These people have had a lot of memorials, lost a lot, and there was so much time between, and Bonnie obviously isn't really going anywhere. But as was heartbreakingly noted, the rest of them are never going to see her again. (I'm sure that will change at some point, but it makes it no less real for their character journeys.) And it hurts. The things they bring to remember her are perfect and significant for who they are and their history with Bonnie. The thing that most tightly joined them together. Elena using the feathers, the way they let them just fall, broke my heart. Allowing her and Jeremy to speak together was lovely. The final framing of the shot was perfect. And, as much as I hate Tyler, I really really do, all I thought as they were walking up, was that it was a bit shitty that Tyler was not here for this moment. And then he was. My other thought was that poor Matt is really alone...and I just want someone to hug him. I wish one of the girls had. I am a bit sad that the three of them (Elena, Caroline, Matt) didn't get some sort of moment to themselves. As much as I adored the Stefan/Caroline scene, I would have traded it for the original group getting their moment together to mourn.

I think having Stefan lose his memories is just a waste of time. Like I understand they needed consequences from Qetsiyah's spell, and something to do with his character, and a way to make us all nostalgia filled for the bigger emotional punch of this episode, but it just feels stupid. We aren't really learning anything new about Stefan through this process. And I cannot even fully celebrate the beauty that is Stefan/Caroline and their multitude of moments in this episode. His faith and trust in her, while thrusting guilt about Damon and Elena because he is a petty little shit. Like seriously, I do not even care about Stefan right now.

The scene between Damon and Jeremy was phenomenal. His begging Jeremy not to say it, because there is a difference between 'knowing' and knowing. And he knew, much like Bonnie knew, exactly what those words said aloud would do to Elena. And Damon's sheer rage and frustration and pain when Jeremy says Bonnie is dead. None of it is about him. It is for Elena's pain, for Jeremy's pain. And the way he holds him, because he knows how much he sacrificed for everyone. Jeremy is precious and honestly probably my favorite character on the show at the moment. He is the youngest and yet the most adult. He has so much on his shoulders and he just takes it and keeps taking more. And even his choice to tell everyone that Bonnie was dead, was less about the weight of keeping the secret, and more about doing what was best for everyone else, including Bonnie. Like seriously, Jeremy is a prince. I could not love him more.

Zach is doing a phenomenal job with the Matt/Gregor transitions. As harmless and loveable and wonderful and trustworthy as Matt comes across, I am equally creeped out by his Gregor counterpart, who comes across as crazy and unhinged. I love that they are really attempting to find ways to let their actors shine and not fall into ruts with their performances. And I love that Zach is rising to the challenge.

Also, whoa whoa whoa. I knew Jesse was not long for this human life but holy shit. Did not actually see that one coming until it came. Thanks Doctor McCreepy.
Arabian: Matt02arabian on October 16th, 2014 10:00 am (UTC)
Because I am watching the gifs play out above me, I am going to start with the Bonnie memorial. It was perfectly handled.

It really, really was. I just--man, they hit every note SO right.

And it hurts.

Yeah.

And, as much as I hate Tyler, I really really do, all I thought as they were walking up, was that it was a bit shitty that Tyler was not here for this moment. And then he was.

Exactly.

My other thought was that poor Matt is really alone...and I just want someone to hug him. I wish one of the girls had.

Gah, yeah, I feel that way also. I think of that everytime I watch it, that he's all alone. :(

I am a bit sad that the three of them (Elena, Caroline, Matt) didn't get some sort of moment to themselves. As much as I adored the Stefan/Caroline scene, I would have traded it for the original group getting their moment together to mourn.

As I said in my post, I don't think we needed to lose that post, we could have lost the Damon/Stefan opener, or the Jesse/Caroline scene, or some of the Stefan/Elena scenes, shaved stuff off here and there.

I think having Stefan lose his memories is just a waste of time. Like I understand they needed consequences from Qetsiyah's spell, and something to do with his character, and a way to make us all nostalgia filled for the bigger emotional punch of this episode, but it just feels stupid.

Well, you can't say now what it means because you don't know the point because it's just began. But since you've seen ahead, I think it was about isolating him, showing who Stefan is really (that true petty side to him) and really begin to re-build up that closeness between Stefan and Caroline. So there was a point.

And I cannot even fully celebrate the beauty that is Stefan/Caroline and their multitude of moments in this episode. His faith and trust in her, while thrusting guilt about Damon and Elena because he is a petty little shit.

But like I said, they were important, because it shows that Stefan is a multi-faceted character. He's not this halo'd hero. He has flaws, he can be a great, caring, there for you guy, but he can also be a petty little shit. He's not perfect. And while Elena brings out the worst in him (ding, ding, ding!), Caroline brings out the best in him!

The scene between Damon and Jeremy was phenomenal. His begging Jeremy not to say it, because there is a difference between 'knowing' and knowing.

I know, I know, I know!!!

And he knew, much like Bonnie knew, exactly what those words said aloud would do to Elena. And Damon's sheer rage and frustration and pain when Jeremy says Bonnie is dead. None of it is about him.

But Damon's the selfish one! HAH!!

It is for Elena's pain, for Jeremy's pain. And the way he holds him, because he knows how much he sacrificed for everyone. Jeremy is precious and honestly probably my favorite character on the show at the moment. He is the youngest and yet the most adult.

I love Jere, but he's still towards the middle/bottom of the ten because as much as I do love him, there are only two characters I don't love more than him but that's just because I love most the main characters SO MUCH!

Zach is doing a phenomenal job with the Matt/Gregor transitions. As harmless and loveable and wonderful and trustworthy as Matt comes across, I am equally creeped out by his Gregor counterpart, who comes across as crazy and unhinged.

Yes, I was so very impressed. You know, he was supposed to play Tyler, but Zach wanted to play the good guy because he was always cast as the bad boys, and they told him, 'no, no, we have a really exciting story planned for Tyler (meaning the werewolf story), and Matt's more of a smaller supporting role,' but he wanted Matt. I'm glad he stuck to his guns even if it's taken a while for Matt to rise up.

I love that they are really attempting to find ways to let their actors shine and not fall into ruts with their performances.

I just wish they'd stop with Paul already. Grr.

And I love that Zach is rising to the challenge.

He so is. :)

Also, whoa whoa whoa. I knew Jesse was not long for this human life but holy shit. Did not actually see that one coming until it came. Thanks Doctor McCreepy.

I KNOW!!

Edited at 2014-10-21 04:09 am (UTC)