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14 February 2013 @ 01:09 am
The Sire Bond, Take Two  
Doing some thinking, watching the show, talking with some friends, I have a few addendums related to my original sire bond post. While I do still think it's not real because it just does NOT make sense otherwise, I have a different take on the part that Klaus and Shane are playing. I think their parts in it are entirely accidental and the two simply taking advantage. When I first watched "My Brother's Keeper" and Klaus made the comment about Caroline would figure it out later after Damon/Elena-related rant, I thought that he meant the fact that Caroline was essentially being a big ole hypocrite. Bitching about Elena being all fine and dandy with Damon while she was laughing it up with Klaus. *Caroline* is the one who decided that he was talking about a sire bond and drew all that conjecture together. And then Shane found out about it after the fact via Bonnie who found out from *Caroline.*

I think now that since both Klaus and Shane want the cure to be found (for different reasons, of course), and both are not stupid and have picked up on the group dynamics they know that (a) Damon is pretty much in charge, but (b) when it comes to not only Damon, but pretty much everyone else in the group, Elena is the unifier -- she is the one person that they all care about. So, it makes perfect sense (and is way less convoluted, well, I thought it was simple but that's because my brain came up with it so it made sense to me, others were all huh, too complicated) that instead of Klaus and Shane directing the sire bond theme, they are rather using it as misdirection. To keep Damon, Elena, Stefan off-balance, to keep Damon, Elena and Stefan wanting to find the cure, both of them -- after hearing about Caroline's theory which she and Stefan decided was fact -- decided to make use of this perfect tool and thus have played along with it.

This fits even more so when you take into account that Shane -- after spending time with Damon the last few days -- realizes that Damon may not want the cure if it means he's going to lose Elena so that's why he's suddenly contradicting himself about Elena's love being real (which he pretty much said to Elena in "O Come, All Ye Faithful"). So, yeah, I still think it's not real and that Shane hypnotized Elena to obey direct commands from Damon or something similar. However, now I think that Klaus and Shane are just taking advantage of this theory and using it to get what they want.

Uh huh.

Hopefully we'll see just what is going on before this next batch of episodes ends.
 
 
 
x5valex5vale on February 14th, 2013 08:16 am (UTC)
This makes a lot of sense, because tbh this sire bond thing in the show doesn't at all.

Let's see how long the writers will drag this little detail :)
Arabian: Damon & Elena28arabian on February 14th, 2013 06:46 pm (UTC)
I still hope it will be resolved before this batch of episodes ends, but we'll see.
Bogwitch: TVD - Elenabogwitch on February 14th, 2013 08:51 am (UTC)
Yeah, something like this. To be honest I am just very confused!

I know some people were convinced the sire bond would be over a couple of eps ago, but the one thing that was clear was that its purpose at this point at least was primarily as Damon's motivation for going to the island, so it was obivous that was going to be wrong. Now that we are at the island, it might well be time to reveal it as fake. If they don't within the next couple of eps, then I think it's probably going to be around for the season and in that case might just be real (I still don't think it is though).
Arabian: Elena07arabian on February 14th, 2013 06:48 pm (UTC)
I never thought it would be over in a couple of episodes, but I am leaning towards this batch of episodes.

the one thing that was clear was that its purpose at this point at least was primarily as Damon's motivation for going to the island, so it was obivous that was going to be wrong. Now that we are at the island, it might well be time to reveal it as fake.

Right, and it's also being used as a way to get to the heart of some of Damon's issues, I think.

If they don't within the next couple of eps, then I think it's probably going to be around for the season and in that case might just be real (I still don't think it is though).

Right, and they're going to have to make it make sense for me because nothing I've heard does at this point.
eolivet on February 14th, 2013 12:51 pm (UTC)
instead of Klaus and Shane directing the sire bond theme, they are rather using it as misdirection. To keep Damon, Elena, Stefan off-balance, to keep Damon, Elena and Stefan wanting to find the cure

So, when Klaus says "I intuited as much," he's...lying? I suppose I can't see someone as worldly as Klaus just throwing a random guess out there, Caroline running with it and now him being all "Oh yeah...that!" I can see him taking advantage of the fact that it's been presented to him, and using it to his advantage -- but that line implies he guessed it before. That makes that line a lie, but it's just such a random lie: Klaus lied about the fact that he actually was just throwing stuff at the wall. It just doesn't fit with what we've seen with Klaus so far, IMO.

Shane hypnotized Elena to obey direct commands from Damon

But isn't the first time Elena saw Shane alone was up at the cabin, post-"Tell her to drink from a bloodbag" from Stefan. IDK, it just implies that Elena acted on a direct order (and we saw it was) from Damon, and then completely independently was hypnotized by Shane to act on another direct order (to leave the cabin). That again is too convoluted for me. :/ It works absolutely if the first direct order Elena ever "obeyed" was Damon telling her to go home. But it wasn't. So, again -- that's a lot of coincidence. :(

And I don't see the inconsistencies, I suppose. Elena obeys Damon's direct orders (which generally coincide with her own feelings). Damon hasn't given one since "Come to me." And even in the last episode, when Damon says "I don't want you to take the cure' it isn't "Do not take the cure." This would mean Elena slept with Damon of her own free will (which is good news), but I have an easier time believing Damon is deliberately parsing his words around her so as not to include orders than I do that him expressing a wish (not an order) and Elena not following it is an example of the sire bond being fake.

The only way that makes sense here is "Sire bonds between vampires don't actually exist at all -- this was a myth passed down to..." I have no idea what, and Charlotte was just a crazy koo-koo pants. In other words, sire bonds as a whole have to be fake vs. Damon/Elena's individual one, IMO.

(You know me, I'm the loyal opposition. :)
Arabian: Damon & Elena21arabian on February 14th, 2013 06:59 pm (UTC)
So, when Klaus says "I intuited as much," he's...lying?

Yes, that's Klaus taking advantage of the situation. He saw an in that helps manipulate these people to do what he wants and takes advantage. It wasn't a random guess, it was, again, taking advantage of a misread of his comment, which is what Klaus does and Joseph Morgan DID say that he has been manipulating them, and this tracks.

But isn't the first time Elena saw Shane alone was up at the cabin, post-"Tell her to drink from a bloodbag" from Stefan. I

Yes, but I've already completely and very reasonably debunked the whole 'bloodbag' thing. Damon didn't tell her to NOT drink from a bloodbag. Damon actually BROUGHT her a bloodbag to drink believing that she COULD drink from it. It was only AFTER they thought she couldn't (when she reacted EXACTLY as Caroline did to her first taste of a blood-bag pre fully filling up from the human vein) that he suggested she needed to drink from the source. So that is easily wrong on all of their parts and we actually have canon to support it 100%.

it just implies that Elena acted on a direct order (and we saw it was) from Damon, and then completely independently was hypnotized by Shane to act on another direct order (to leave the cabin)

But that is the ONLY time Damon gave Elena an order that she didn't want to follow, and that ONE time, Elena felt very weird about it in a way she never has any other time. And on top of that, Julie is spouting some nonsense on Twitter that the sire bond gives an illusion of a free will which is why it seems like Elena is doing her own stuff, but she's actually doing stuff Damon wants. Which makes no sense because (a) there are a LOT of things Damon wants her to do/not do that she's done/not done, and what happened in response to that direct command had ZERO illusion of free will at all.

There are inconsistencies left and right. The bottom-line is that there are WAY too many differentiations that we've seen on screen. Either, direct commands work, or it's an illusion of free will, or it's what Damon wants, or it's what Damon suggests, or Damon is specific or Damon hints at it or. .... they can't all apply if the sire bond is a legit thing, and yet, they all apply at different points that "prove" the sire bond and that makes no sense.

I have no idea what, and Charlotte was just a crazy koo-koo pants. In other words, sire bonds as a whole have to be fake vs. Damon/Elena's individual one, IMO.

Which works too.
(Deleted comment)
Arabian: Damon & Elena22arabian on February 14th, 2013 06:48 pm (UTC)
That's what I thought originally, but they've made it into SUCH a negative thing that I don't see how it can be without being negative. We'll see.
prettygirl5130: pic#119743568prettygirl5130 on February 14th, 2013 10:35 pm (UTC)
That is so true! Instead of having the bond bring DE together despite the odds and figuring out how to be in a relationship despite the bond, it has split them apart. The bond has honestly put the entire triangle on hold. No couple will be able to move forward. It needs to go away now. It's like a wet blanket, suffocating us with each episode.

And yeah, the show told us that Elena's feelings aren't affected and the bond is nothing like a hybrid bond, but every character is treating the bond like it's a hybrid bond and that Damon is basically ordering Elena around all of the time, and Elena feelings are being affected. So they may have made a big deal about how DE's feelings are real, but the characters certaintly didn't get the message and if makes you wonder if you missed something in 4.8 when all of these revelations happened originally.
Arabian: Doylearabian on February 16th, 2013 07:04 am (UTC)
. It needs to go away now. It's like a wet blanket, suffocating us with each episode.

I think having Damon trying to invoke the sire bond by commanding her to not turn her switch off (or turn it back on if she's turned it off) and it not working could open them up to fully questioning it. I hope so, yes, because it does need to be dealt with ASAP.

prettygirl5130: pic#119743568prettygirl5130 on February 14th, 2013 10:31 pm (UTC)
Oh God, this sire bond thing is a pain in the butt at the moment and it's really making me very paranoid...which I guess is what the writers wanted since it seems to be a bit of a theme this season.

Anyway, i've been thinking about this bond for a long time now. At first, I thought this would be an interesting story especially from Elena's POV but it's just been sitting in the background for far too long at the moment and instead of really exploring what Elena is feeling it's been mostly about Damon...this is great don't get me wrong and the angst they've managed to pull out of this story is awesomely painful. But, i kind of think they've pulled as much angst as they could. It came to a peak in 4.14 with Elena's proposal and Damon's rejection of said proposal now it's time to deal with it, in my opinion, and release some of that tension for the last half of the season.

At this point, it needs to be fake. It's just from a character progression POV and it also would make Shane's involvement and badassery pretty awesome. I mean this guy would be probably the baddest villain the gang has ever encountered and they had no idea. So i'm crossing my fingers for some reveals tonight and some relief from the tension.
Arabian: Alaric01arabian on February 16th, 2013 07:07 am (UTC)
i kind of think they've pulled as much angst as they could. It came to a peak in 4.14 with Elena's proposal and Damon's rejection of said proposal now it's time to deal with it, in my opinion, and release some of that tension for the last half of the season.

I agree completely.

At this point, it needs to be fake. It's just from a character progression POV and it also would make Shane's involvement and badassery pretty awesome. I mean this guy would be probably the baddest villain the gang has ever encountered and they had no idea.

Agreed, and actually with what happened in the last episode, knowing that Silas has been in Shane's brain and basically controlling him makes me think he's aware of what's going on through Shane's eyes, and therefore HE may have been the one directing all of this. It's just crazy!
k_stjames: pic#117006481k_stjames on February 14th, 2013 11:22 pm (UTC)
This makes a lot of sense especially in light of just how hard Shane was pushing / trying to work Damon in the last episode. It works so both Shane and Klaus's advantage to have a distracted off his game Damon as opposed to a thoughtful Damon who has the ability to disrupt all their plans. But I do think there is some kind of special stronger connection between Damon and Elena and it does have to due with their feelings and understanding but in no way do I think it's SB the way the show is claiming.
Arabian: Ian & Nina(PS)01arabian on February 16th, 2013 07:09 am (UTC)
After this last episode where it became pretty clear that Silas has been in Shane's brain and basically controlling him makes me think he's aware of what's going on through Shane's eyes, and therefore HE may have been the one directing all of this.

I do think there is some kind of special stronger connection between Damon and Elena and it does have to due with their feelings and understanding but in no way do I think it's SB the way the show is claiming.

So agreed.
Eris: pic#110572612l_eris_l on February 16th, 2013 12:04 am (UTC)
I hope next week Damon tries to invoke the sire bond and it fails, and Elena turns off her humanity. That would be an interesting way to reveal that the bond is fake, while still adding drama to DE. It would be a nice role reversal for Damon to have to fight for Elena's humanity like she did for him. I can't see keeping the sire bond storyline going for the rest of the season, it feels stagnant to me. If they had explored it or better explained it I could be on board, there was major angst potential in it, but right now it just feels like a cheap plot device to keep DE apart.
Arabian: Damon & Elena12arabian on February 16th, 2013 07:11 am (UTC)
I hope next week Damon tries to invoke the sire bond and it fails, and Elena turns off her humanity. That would be an interesting way to reveal that the bond is fake, while still adding drama to DE.

Or at least open them up to really start to fully question it.

I think if they keep the sire bond as real without being questioned it will feel like a cheap plot device, but I don't think it's there yet. If it continues past the next episode, I can't say that I'd disagree with you.