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16 November 2012 @ 03:39 am
4.06 - 'We All Go A Little Mad Sometimes' (The Vampire Diaries)  
Shockingly enough I have a migraine -- rested some, but it's still there a wee bit so I'm bullet-pointing this stuff. Still way longer than any post has the right to be, LOL!

But before I start -- PLEASE DO NOT SPOIL ME. I'm not watching webclips. I'm not watching any episode preview other than the one that airs right after the show. I'm not looking at episode stills -- unless I accidentally get spoiled, grr. I'm not reading episode synopses. I'm not reading/watching interviews or following the actor/creators TVD-related tweets. Basically, rule of thumb: If it has not aired, please do not mention it in this post. Thank you; I really appreciate it. :)

- So what we learned in Elena's subconscious --

1.) She knows that Stefan will never accept her as a vampire.

2.) Stefan's 'vampires are evil' attitude has created this 'vampires are monsters' attitude in Elena that really doesn't fit the reality of her life and loves. It simply does not fit the reality of how she actually views, yes, Stefan, but also Damon, Caroline and Tyler. (And Rose and Elijah.) She firmly believes that these vampires are not evil or monsters, however, Stefan's attitude -- total dismay and disappointment in her new status -- has made her feel that she is not who she was, convincing herself that she's such a different person now. Even though she is not. But more on that later.

3.) But she still has Damon. That's what the in-Elena's-head version of Katherine told her. Yes, it was presented in her mind (*sigh*) as if he was second-choice, but Rome wasn't built in a day. And see point above: She's still seeing things -- whether they make sense or not -- in shades of absolute.

4.) Elena was ready to die in "The Departed," because she felt that she should have died the year before.

- I know there has been some complaint about the big deal made about Elena's over-the-top compassion, when 'Hey! Caroline killed Carter and those two deputies!' The thing is, though, that the vampire mythology on the show is clear that there are only certain aspects specific to a person that are amplified. For Caroline it was her super-control freak nature that puts thing in perspectives that brighten her worldview. For Stefan it was always projecting the right image and his hypocrisy. For Damon it's his self-loathing and feeling of not being the chosen one. For Elena it's her compassion. So I don't think that it's that Caroline is stronger than Elena or that Elena is a "better' person that Caroline, I think it's just that the aspects of Caroline that were amplified helped her deal with her vampirism with ease while the aspects of Elena that are amplified are making it harder.

- Hah! Damon saying that it didn't take a genius to figure out where Elena was... Nah, I think you're one of only a few who would have figured that out.

- Damon saved her. Of course. What else is new? But was what new was how Elena looked at him afterwards and how she said the words 'You saved me.' It was as if she was seeing Damon, 100% fully, completely Damon as her hero. I don't think we've ever seen her look that way at him solely about him being there for her without tears, without sadness (ala "The New Deal"). It was just... he was her hero. That look, that tone of voice we've only see her direct at Stefan before. But here, it was directed at Damon. Of course, there are two in this game, and yeah, Damon's reaction: See the self-loathing and feeling of not being the chosen one' above? Thus his slight headshake, look down and sarcastic deflection after she thanked him.

  

- My exact thoughts while Elena was standing on the bridge at one point: Elena took the ring off! Yes!! And then when the commercial ended, focusing on that ring: Damon found the ring. Darn. Ah well, at least we know (even if we didn't see it) that he put the ring on her finger this time. And he took her home, got her in her sleepy clothes, put her to bed and waited for her to wake up. Awww.

- I was reminded of how in "The Reckoning" it was very specific that Stefan wasn't able to stop himself from tearing into Elena, and we saw Damon be the one to save her. Here, it was again very specific that we saw Damon be the one to save her. Considering why she stopped fighting Damon on the bridge -- because the spell was broken -- means that Stefan being there would have most likely (and quite easily) had the same effect, but instead they made it Damon there to do the saving. Uh huh.

- About the Stefan/Elena break-up (pause for a moment to let the cheering subside)... Ahem. First off, kudos deserved, Paul Wesley's acting in that final scene was stellar. Some of his best in a while. Now, onto the scene. I found a few things interesting. First off, what was unspoken when Stefan said her feelings for Damon were magnified was that if Elena's feelings for Stefan were so strong pre-vampire days, then her feelings for him would have magnified as well... which would mean that she wouldn't be drawn to Damon more. But she is. Because her feelings pre-vampire days were stronger for Damon than they were for Stefan by the time she "chose" Stefan.

Which I still maintain wasn't really her true choice at all when looking at the entirety of the circumstances. I know that on the surface their entire conversation was about human!Elena versus vampire!Elena thus her not being into Stefan anymore, but those were just words that Stefan was saying to make himself feel better. And also Elena agreed with because it makes her feel better to believe that she's letting go of her 'always' belief with Stefan and admitting she wants his brother not because she actually does -- after all, what does that say about her with all of Damon's bad-bad brother mojo? -- but rather because of that pesky vampirism. In other words, their most honest conversation was still full of lies and the inability to be honest with themselves or each other. Elena just still cannot handle the fact that she was hot for Damon as a human. And Stefan can't fathom it.

The truth of the matter is that Vamp!Elena is not this drastically different person. This Elena were seeing now is the Elena who was growing into adulthood, becoming braver, stronger, more independent without Stefan in season 03. That's the girl who started to fall hard for Damon even as she desperately tried to hold onto her love for his brother. Yes, she chose Stefan... but remember she chose Stefan to say goodbye to, under a time crunch, when she believed they were both going to die. We can never really know for sure if Elena and Stefan would have worked had she stayed human. Based on everything prior to her vampiric turn, I don't think they would have because the problems, the issues, her feelings for Damon that are making things not work for Stefan and Elena as a couple now would have been there whether she was a vampire or not. Those were things that changed and grew when Stefan was gone and Elena was growing up and Damon was right beside her.

So, again, the whole Elena not choosing Stefan now because she's not a human and admitting to wanting Damon because she's a vampire is essentially a load of bunk. Just because Stefan and Elena are saying these words doesn't mean that the SHOW is saying it's only human!Elena for Stefan and vamp!Elena for Damon. Nope, this is what these two specific characters WHO LIE TO EACH OTHER AND THEMSELVES are saying. The show is SHOWING us and has shown us that human!Elena was pretty damn into Damon too.

- *sigh* Gotta say, I'm even more frustrated with Joshua Butler with each passing episode. Obviously, what happened in "The Five" between Damon and Elena and Stefan and Elena's inability to be even remotely honest with one another in that final scene was supposed to show that growing connection, desire between Damon and Elena, while also showing the growing distance between Stefan and Elena. However based on the direction which horribly did not highlight the Damon/Elena in a meaningful (or sexy) way at all while at the same time portrayed as Stefan/Elena UNITED AGAINST THE WORLD! made it seem as if the progress of Damon/Elena took a few steps back while Stefan/Elena were finding more solid ground. Again, clearly the opposite was supposed to happen which would have flowed and made perfect sense going into episode 05, and especially this episode leading to the Stefan/Elena break-up. Arrrrggghh!! Damn you, Butler!

- OK, I don't have any more deep thoughts about Elena and the boys because this week pretty much just solidified everything but the above that I talked about in last week's episode, so random thoughts time....

- I gotta say I loved how even though she started to, she corrected herself and Elena didn't separate the vampire self from who she is, unlike Stefan who separates the Ripper from who he is.

- Is handporn going to be a DE thing? Yes, please!

      

And dear sweet baby Jesus, the way she smiles at him... totally, totally the smile of a girl in love, and happy about it.

Further proof that Damon is winning over more than the girl?

- Jeremy casually saying he'd stake Damon was awesome because it showed the complete trust and comfort level that Jere has with Damon now. Booyah! And just because: Hee! "Little Gilbert."

- April kinda felt like expository girl this week, but I won't complain because it led to the awesome scene between Damon and Matt. WOOHOO!!! And something I found interesting was that Matt didn't tell Damon "I don't like you," but rather "You don't like me." Hmmm... And then he looked proud and pleased that he was impressing Damon. Uh huh!

- Bonnie called Damon her friend without even a hint of hesitation, awww. Speaking of Damon and Bonnie, I see that they are back to their semi-respectful, prickly working relationship which I like! I also like that Bonnie complained about being out of the loop (because, uhm, yeah!), and then that Damon had a fairly reasonable explanation to offer in response.

- Seriously, though I continue to love how everyone goes to, works with, takes Damon's lead now. Awesome!

- I loved that Damon couldn't look Elena in the face and NOT tell her the truth, while Stefan had no problem doing so. Yeah.

- I also loved that when Stefan tried to make Elena being pissed off at him about Damon, she wouldn't let him go there, but put it squarely where it belonged: on him. Also: What Elena fan didn't cheer when she told him "I'm not in the mood to listen to you try to talk your way out of this." I know I did! GO ELENA!

- Aww, Damon. Thank you, show, for not dropping the Damon/Alaric bromance. We had not one, not two, but THREE Ric mentions/references from Damon tonight. Aww, aww, aww!

- So, explain to me like I'm stupid why didn't Klaus kill Hayley? (By the way, Phoebe Tonkin continues to prove that the only reason she got the kudos she did on The Secret Circle is because her character got all the cool lines, cuz, she's pretty much not doing much here.) But back to Klaus. I mean, come on! He's supposedly so bad-ass -- yet for no apparent reason let's this little girl talk smack to him and doesn't just rip her head off? -- and twenty steps ahead of everyone, yet Caroline and Tyler are fooling him this easily? Really? Frankly, it's kind of embarrassing. Klaus is proving himself to be pretty lame-ass, unscary, stupid and a bit pathetic.

ETA: OK, people explained my stupidity to me. It's all about him using Hayley to keep a wedge between Caroline and Tyler, plus as emiv pointed out, as a werewolf, Klaus would want to keep open the possibility of another hybrid down the road. So I take this one back. But not this:

- Dude, really? Why the hell would anyone let Klaus know that Jeremy is a hunter now? SERIOUSLY!?!?!? Please Damon have not been a part of THAT decision! Please have just assumed that they'd grab some sired hybrid randomly and do the deed without Klaus' knowledge.

- Elena killed Jeremy. Yeah. That happened. Certain people know what I'm thinking here. All I can say now is really?!

- I liked how Katherine and vamp!Elena even in Elena's head were so different. Go Nina!

- Not so much go? (And totally shallow.) I don't like Nina's dye job, the red highlights are too pronounced and are not flattering to her skin tone. Grrr. I know I'm actually complaining about someone's hair on this show not named Damon or Ian. Shocking!

- So, yeah, am I the only one wondering why we're suddenly seeing this new Elena shower in full glory in the last few episodes? Dare I hope that it's planned for future Damon/Elena sexytiems? Pretty please!? Hey, it would be the one place we haven't seen either with ANYONE ELSE! And that sheer-ish shower curtain that gave us this:


Could easily give us barely PG-ish good Damon/Elena hot stuff, baby tonight! (Calling Donna Summer! Yes, I'm showing my age)

- OK, badboy_fangirl, Damon did say 'Lena after she ran out of the kitchen. (But the 'E' was there when she was spirited away by Klaus.)

- Atticus? I kinda like it. I also do wonder Shane's whole deal. Hmm. And if he's connected to Esther and her story in any way. And if he's immortal somehow, I mean, traveling the world ten times over, all he knows? I dunno. I am curious though.

- Was it just me or did anyone else hear Elena say "Mommy, I didn't mean to disappoint you"? I really hope she did because going back to that more childish form of maternal address is a nice touch on the state of Elena's mind.

- I also really loved the small gesture of Elena pressing her face into her mother's palm. It was just a beautiful moment.

- So, butterfly and I have long agreed that the characters on this show have a major tribal mentality thing going. They don't necessarily want to kill/see others hurt, but if they are people outside their tribe, then well if it's necessary, well, it's necessary. Which is what made the conversation between Caroline and Tyler so interesting (I know! I just typed that!). It actually is making me wonder if Tyler might not stick around in Mystic Falls beyond this season, maybe not even in death, but just leaving because clearly the tribe we all know and love is separate from Tyler's pack, and there may come a time where he has to choose one over the other. That could be the point of Hayley. I don't think that she and Tyler had a thing, but obviously she does care very much for him, and she may wind up being his out to help him leave.

- So, uhm, did Tyler and Caroline break up too? Do I care? Unless it means that we won't have to deal with them boring up my screen anytime soon, then, no, really, I don't.

- Whee!! Domestic!Damon for about ten seconds. I'll take it!


- So yeah, this Silas dude is so gonna be a thing, right?

- OK, new theory! It's not Elena that will wind up turning human at the end of the season, but.... DAMON! We'll see.

So, another strong episode, but I'm still waiting for my socks to be blown off. Come on, show! Blow my socks off. With you, I will not settle for great! I demand magnificence! (But I won't complain about great ;)

And once more for the road: PLEASE DO NOT SPOIL ME. I'm not watching webclips. I'm not watching any episode preview other than the one that airs right after the show. I'm not looking at episode stills. I'm not reading episode synopses. I'm not reading/watching interviews or following the actor/creators TVD-related tweets.Basically, rule of thumb: If it has not aired, please do not mention it in this post. Thank you; I really appreciate it. :)

Gifs tomorrow, I think!
 
 
 
Aislinn Nicole: Delena stareaislinn_nicole on November 16th, 2012 09:16 am (UTC)
Personally, I can't help but think Klaus hasn't thought of a back-up plan since they've found another hunter. And by back-up plan, I mean that if he can't turn Elena into a human again, well there's still another doppelganger out there - Katherine. Yeah, sure it'll be much harder to get Katherine pinned down somewhere and use the cure (whatever it may be) on her, but still, as obsessed as the man is with making hybrids, I'm wondering if this back-up idea will occur to him at one point or another. Who knows, maybe its part of the reason Klaus wants to keep everything so hush-hush?

I always love your reviews, and I agree that Stefan and Elena still live partially in denial about why their relationship is falling apart (or never really restarted). Also, I think it was intentional of the writers that various things kept interrupting on their attempts at sex or intimacy - blood vomit, werewolf venom and Damon hallucinations, travelling with Damon to college... it's like the writers were pointing out that Stefan and Elena were really, really trying but no dice. Real life is intruding - time to stop playing pretend.

The thing I'm super worried about though is that all this is some elaborate ploy to have some real Delena for awhile and then voila! she's human again and Stefan is so freaking awesome and she really loves him the most after all. I just hope they aren't playing that game to appease the fandom because nothing would be more frustrating or insulting. But hey, maybe we'll get some real Delena smut out if it anyway! :) Personally, I think the girl needs some down time to really think about her life and whether pursuing the cure is worth the cost to her, her brother, and whatever obstacles she and everyone she loves will have to face. Klaus is obviously committed to finding the cure, but I'm hoping Jeremy's involvement will put some things in perspective for Elena. I know she loves her Salvatores, but it's not like they're going anywhere!

(Except apparently back in time - have you seen that shot of Damon in 1942 in his GI uniform?! *drools* Yeah, let's just say that made my day!)
Arabian: Damon & Elena18arabian on November 16th, 2012 09:27 am (UTC)
Hmm, that's right -- Katherine is an option, but he's got Elena right where he knows she is and knows she wants to be human again, so Katherine wouldn't cross his mind right now, I'd think.

I think it was intentional of the writers that various things kept interrupting on their attempts at sex or intimacy - blood vomit, werewolf venom and Damon hallucinations, travelling with Damon to college... it's like the writers were pointing out that Stefan and Elena were really, really trying but no dice. Real life is intruding - time to stop playing pretend.

Me too, I think I referred to it as "the universe is trying to tell them something" a few episodes ago, LOL!

As for pulling a fast one on D/E fans? I just don't think so. First off, Julie Plec has said that this show's arc for Damon is one of romantic love, for Stefan, it's self-love... which pretty much points to Damon and Elena endgame. Also, as I said above, as a human, Elena was falling in love with Damon already, she just managed to delude herself that it wasn't happening. Period.

While I want some sexytiems with Damon/Elena, if it happens, I kinda want them either to both step back because Elena needs time, or Damon to suggest that while she's figuring things out, they can just be friends with benefits, LOL!

Sigh: I did accidentally see Damon in that shot, but it is a spoiler. Please, please don't spoil me. I'm trying really, really hard to go spoiler-free this season. Thank you. :) PS: But thanks for mentioning it this time because it was something I'd been accidentally spoiled on and it reminded me to add that note in my post about spoilers.


Edited at 2012-11-16 09:31 am (UTC)
(no subject) - aislinn_nicole on November 16th, 2012 10:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on November 16th, 2012 11:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
x5vale: bloodsharingx5vale on November 16th, 2012 12:01 pm (UTC)
How many times has Jeremy died already?

LOL!

Word on everything you said about Damon/Elena/Stefan.

Loved the episode, for lots of reasons. it gave me everything I wanted from the three main characters.

Plus I love Jeremy and Matt and how they interact with Damon.
Arabian: Damon & Elena19arabian on November 16th, 2012 01:17 pm (UTC)
Jeremy has definitely died quite a few times!

I was pleased overall with the episode myself, I'm just -- blech, Tyler. Blech.
hotarujazzhotarujazz on November 16th, 2012 12:04 pm (UTC)
I agree with you 100%. I noticed again the staging of Stefan the hero and Damon the obstacle and it annoyed me to n-th degree because it had no real barring in the writing.

The only positive about Caroline story line right now for me is Steroline getting closer. The thing about tribal mentality is that it transferred to me because I wasn't at least bit taken a back with killing that guy because I saw him as dead the second Klaus realized he is not sired anymore. Other than that the whole hybrid part of the show is so boring and inconsequential to me, I always just wait for those scenes to pass.

As Elena stan this episode was beautiful in her character development and I will always remember it as such. Also, I don't see how anyone watching this episode could say that Elena is weak. It took whole day and 2 nights for her to give in to hallucinations and she fought them tooth and nail to the last second. If that's not strength, I don't know what is.

Paul Wesley did a superb job but I lost all my love for Stefan the character since he showed his true colors. Great brotherly love Stefan! Always trying to blame Damon, always degrading him to the woman he loves. I didn't feel that touched by the brake up scene because I saw it not as Stefan letting go the woman he loves but bowing out of the game when he realized he is losing. By the way Stefan worded things, I felt like he was more peeved by losing to his brother than braking up with the love of his life. And that comment about how he can't see why she would feel close to Damon now was really spiteful and downright undeserved. As was that one to Damon in the promo about this being the best day of his life and not to pretend he cares about Stefan. Damon loves his brother but his brother is eternally 17 in his attitude and understanding of the world and he doesn't seem to be growing out of it.

Little treasures in this episode: Damon and Bonnie teaming up FTW, Jeremy and Matt trusting Damon and deferring to him, generally that Matt-Damon scene(XD the pun Matt Damon scene-ignore this, I didn't sleep that much) and all the feels of potential friendship I felt, Dalaric feels:,(, Domestic Damon-the best housewife of Mystic Falls and Jeremy ignoring Stefan and asking Damon what happened and not accusing him.

Edited at 2012-11-16 12:05 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Damon04arabian on November 16th, 2012 01:21 pm (UTC)
I agree with you 100%. I noticed again the staging of Stefan the hero and Damon the obstacle and it annoyed me to n-th degree because it had no real barring in the writing.

Hmm, I'm not sure you do. I thought the opposite -- Stefan was definitely not staged as the hero. Damon was. Stefan is the obstacle, all the way.

Elena was perfection from beginning to end, I completely agree. Paul did do a great job, but I still love Stefan -- as long as I feel that the show is being honest with his faults, I'm fine with that. He is still in many ways a 17-year old and that's OK. I don't think he's grown because he hasn't felt ever that he had to. He's basically been told ever since he was a vampire that the Ripper side of him is bad, the non-Ripper side is a saint. So why would he feel the need to grow, to learn, to change?

Agreed with all of your little treasures. :D

Edited at 2012-11-17 04:06 am (UTC)
eolivet on November 16th, 2012 12:17 pm (UTC)
Why on earth would Klaus kill Hayley? I know she mouthed off to him, but his objective is to get Caroline. Why remove the biggest wedge that exists between Tyler and Caroline? If he kills Hayley, who's to say Caroline won't go back to Tyler (since Hayley is supposedly the reason Tyler and Caroline broke up)? IDK, I completely understood why he held himself in check (and a part of me likes to think he suspects he's being played, but if Hayley hangs around long enough to make goo-goo eyes at Tyler...maybe he won't be getting played anymore).

And why is it bad that Klaus knows Jeremy's a hunter? Didn't Klaus want to protect the last hunter (to find a cure, to make Elena human, to start making hybrids again)? So, it's great Klaus knows he needs to protect Jeremy now, right? Or am I missing something?

I can't believe I think I liked this ep more than you did -- I loved the ambiguity of it. People doing things for the right reasons that turned out to be the wrong reasons. Like breaking Elena out of Klaus' fortress, when he really (for once) had her best interests at heart. Nina Dobrev's outstanding acting as Elena turning on herself. The fact that her subconscious/the evil ghost of Connor finally used kindness to kill her rather than force (responding to her mother entreating her to die, not Connor telling her she was worthless).

Vamp!Elena has been bugging me all season, but I got her last night. I understood her, for the first time -- thanks to this well-wriitten and well-acted story (also Stefan trying to be the Big Damn Hero and bringing about EPIC FAILURE will never not make me LOL). And Stefan and Elena's mature breakup on the front steps (and Damon being the bigger person yet again, and trying to keep S/E together and allowing Elena to make her own choices and...sigh).

And JEREMY! About the only thing I disliked about the episode was the numerous references to Buffy ("hunters" and "potentials" and "the chosen one"), and the fact that TVD could be naming a bad guy after one of the greatest heroes of all time (Atticus Finch, represent!) but other than that? Strongest ep of the season for me, BY FAR. :D And I get to recap it! :p
Arabian: Elena11arabian on November 16th, 2012 01:28 pm (UTC)
Why on earth would Klaus kill Hayley?

Because she pretty much dared him to, not once, but twice, and Klaus is supposedly (a) extremely powerful and kills without a thought, and (b) petulant and childish and doesn't like being disrespected. I thought I wrote it down, but I guess I didn't. If I believed he felt anything beyond a crush for Caroline, I'd be more willing to buy that he's going to put up with this girl totally disrespecting him on multiple places, but since it just appears as a crush, I don't buy it. And it's just yet another show of how ineffectual and non-scary and bad-ass that Klaus is. Yet the show has sold that he is such, plus scary-smart, since before he showed up and yet, with each episode that passes we see proof of that less and less.

Could he be aware that Caroline/Tyler are playing him? Maybe. But if he is, we, the viewers, should get some legitimate sign of that. Otherwise, it just makes him look like he's being played by a couple of teenagers. I know it wasn't that horrible in this episode, but like I said this has been building and building throughout season 03 and so far this season. The Klaus we were sold is not the Klaus we're getting.

ETA: Forgot why I thought it was so stupid to let Klaus know. Klaus knowing that Jeremy is a hunter is bad because he desperately wants the cure so he can have his human bloodbag back, and so therefore I could see him doing whatever he sees fit with Jeremy to get that tattoo to grow which could REALLY mess up Jeremy. That anyone who loves Jeremy would give Klaus that kind of desire to control him is just not something I get.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the episode. I thought it was great and that was my only issue, but like I said -- well, it's been building.

You know I've had no problem with Elena, and I'm glad that the writing for this episode finally got you on board.

the only thing I disliked about the episode was the numerous references to Buffy

As someone who only watched Buffy's first few seasons a few times and then just once from the third season on, I can tell you that Buffy never crossed my mind at all. In fact, even you mentioning those things still didn't make a Buffy dent in me. I mean, for me, 'the chosen one' goes back to so many older myths, fandoms, etc. Buffy just appropriated that themselves.

I thought it was a strong episode, but I would give the strongest to last week still because this one was a little slow moving, I agree with archangel_blood below. But it was a great episode, definitely.

Edited at 2012-11-16 01:44 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - eolivet on November 16th, 2012 04:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on November 16th, 2012 08:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - corusca on November 16th, 2012 05:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on November 16th, 2012 08:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
archangel_blood: heartbeatsarchangel_blood on November 16th, 2012 01:03 pm (UTC)
Another good episode. I found it a little slow paced for my taste at times, but in terms of character development it was brilliant. So many things were acknowledged and so many truths spoken, even under the disguise of small lies sometimes (S/E, I’m looking at you).

I loved Elena’s no-nonsense attitude toward Stefan, especially in the beginning of the episode. This has to be the first time she’s been so curt and impatient with him, not giving a damn about his delicate sensibilities. So many firsts, it’s a whole new era for Elena.

The D/E scenes last night were simply beautiful. Yes, the way she was looking and smiling at him, man; I don’t think she’s acted like this around Damon before. It’s as if her eyes are wide open for the first time ever and all she can see is him.

And as frustrating as it was at the time, I was so glad Damon told her the truth about Stefan; truth is their thing. That, and handporn.

About the Stefan/Elena break-up (pause for a moment to let the cheering subside)

Haha, this. I did cheer. Loudly. At 4 am my time, while hubby was trying to sleep in the other room. Oops.

Initially I was rather annoyed that Stefan and Elena tried to explain her feelings for Damon with the whole being a vampire thing. So convenient, isn’t it. Then I realized they both needed an excuse because that’s who they are, and I was suddenly fine with it. If thinking that human Elena didn’t have those same feelings and would have never made the same choice makes Stefan feel better about the whole thing, that’s okay. If Elena wants to believe that she is finally ready to face her feelings and maybe act on them because vampires’ emotions are simply more intense and they have fewer inhibitions, then so be it. Whatever gets them through the night. And you are right; because of Stefan, Elena subconsciously equates vampire = evil, even though logically she knows this is not true. Fact is, Elena had a dozen (stupid) reasons to think that loving Damon made her a bad person. Now that she already considers herself a bad person, a monster, it doesn’t make such a difference anymore. She may as well go with it; she’s a vampire after all, and they are all inherently bad, aren’t they?

I hope now that S/E are not together anymore, Stefan’s influence will be less defining, and hopefully Elena will be ready to embrace a less self-loathing perspective soon.

I gotta say I loved how even though she started to, she corrected herself and Elena didn't separate the vampire self from who she is, unlike Stefan who separates the Ripper from who he is.

Yes. She already is a better vampire than Stefan will ever be.

Jeremy casually saying he'd stake Damon was awesome because it showed the complete trust and comfort level that Jere has with Damon now.

Loved this. It goes to show how much more natural and relaxed Jeremy’s relationship with Damon is, compared to his relationship with Stefan (and the stick up Stefan’s butt).

This season has been lacking in OMFG!amazing episodes so far, but it’s been great for D/E overall. I just hope that TVD continues to build on their gorgeous slow burn and doesn’t throw them together within a couple episodes. So many other shows make that mistake, I can’t help but feel a little concerned. Whatever sins the show has committed however, compromising D/E has never been one of them, so I’ll just try to breathe now.
Arabian: Elena01arabian on November 16th, 2012 01:42 pm (UTC)
Yeah, it was a great episode, but I agree -- slow-paced is a good word for it. And yes, in terms of character development, spot-on.

I loved Elena’s no-nonsense attitude toward Stefan, especially in the beginning of the episode. This has to be the first time she’s been so curt and impatient with him, not giving a damn about his delicate sensibilities. So many firsts, it’s a whole new era for Elena.

Yup that first scene between them was really the first time we've ever seen Elena not treat Stefan with kid gloves and/or tears. It was about damn time!

The D/E scenes last night were simply beautiful. Yes, the way she was looking and smiling at him, man; I don’t think she’s acted like this around Damon before. It’s as if her eyes are wide open for the first time ever and all she can see is him.

Yup, the way she was looking at him just really, really got to me. Dare I say it? It reminded me of how she was looking down the stairs in "Rose" when Damon thought she was looking at him, but then the camera angle revealed she was looking at Stefan. This time? It was definitively ALL for Damon.

And as frustrating as it was at the time, I was so glad Damon told her the truth about Stefan; truth is their thing. That, and handporn.

SO HAPPY he told her the truth. And, yes, handporn!

Initially I was rather annoyed that Stefan and Elena tried to explain her feelings for Damon with the whole being a vampire thing. So convenient, isn’t it. Then I realized they both needed an excuse because that’s who they are, and I was suddenly fine with it.

Yeah, that's why it didn't bother me at all. We know the real reason, and deep down, so do they, neither is ready to admit it though.

because of Stefan, Elena subconsciously equates vampire = evil, even though logically she knows this is not true.

Yup, that's what it comes down. I agree with you, that hopefully Elena will be able to stop hating herself.

RE: Damon/Jeremy -- It goes to show how much more natural and relaxed Jeremy’s relationship with Damon is, compared to his relationship with Stefan

Completely agree.

This season has been lacking in OMFG!amazing episodes so far, but it’s been great for D/E overall. I just hope that TVD continues to build on their gorgeous slow burn and doesn’t throw them together within a couple episodes.

I'm hoping that even if we see some heat with them, Elena backs off and decides she needs to be single girl for awhile -- because she really does. And then later towards the season, we can see them try. Then at the end of the season, Damon somehow winds up human which brings us to season 05, they're together, but it's a WHOLE new crazy dynamic, and still leaves Damon and Elena with Damon as we know him best waiting in the wings to blossom in season 06 at some point. Yeah, I've got this all worked out, LOL!

Whatever sins the show has committed however, compromising D/E has never been one of them, so I’ll just try to breathe now.

Very much agreed.
(Anonymous) on November 16th, 2012 03:48 pm (UTC)
Let's get this out of the way: great episode, loved your post! Though I do think the Hayley-Klaus thing is about Klaus trying to drive a wedge between Caroline and Tyler. It was obvious in that early scene of Caroline kissing Tyler that Klaus is onto the truth: that Hayley in fact has feelings for Tyler even if he perhaps doesn't. I dunno, I have this weird feeling the writers are setting up parallels where on one hand Damon triumphs over the 'so-called-good' guy and gets the girl, and on the other Stefan gets Caroline over the bad guy, Klaus. I'm fine with Hayley and Tyler, I think they kinda match just based on the 'meh' factor. Also, I was genuinely taken aback by that final break-up scene. I don't think it ever struck home to me just how delusional those two were until they started being (semi)honest with each other. Geez. Superb acting though, it felt real to me.
Arabian: Elena09arabian on November 16th, 2012 08:00 pm (UTC)
Well, you're yet another person saying that so I suppose I can reconsider my Klaus issue. Plus emiv mentioned the Hybrid thing too.

I don't think it ever struck home to me just how delusional those two were until they started being (semi)honest with each other. Geez. Superb acting though, it felt real to me.

There's a reason I often describe how these two love to tiptoe through the tulips through their land of delusion. BIG-TIME.

Edited at 2012-11-16 08:10 pm (UTC)
Cassandra Elise: hermione yaycassandra_elise on November 16th, 2012 03:50 pm (UTC)
Basically I've been squeeeeeeeeeeeing nonstop since about 8:45pm last night (that's about the time Damon showed up on the bridge). I loved everything about this episode. I actually thought the hour went by really quickly. All of the plots kept me interested, even the hybrid thing because it showed Tyler and Caroline at odds with each other. :P

There's just so many wonderful feelings I have, and you pretty much covered them all: Jeremy/Damon, Matt/Damon, Bonnie not being judgy pants, Stefan showing once again how stupid his judgement is when it comes to Elena (FAIL! rescue, Stefan!) And of course, the Damon/Elena stuff: starting from the beginning when she phoned Damon about killing Jeremy and NOT Stefan. She knew Damon would understand more, plus she was still PISSED at Stefan and his never-ending deception. But Damon was being a good brother and brought Stefan in on the story anyways. You gotta respect him for that. The good stuff continued when Elena told Stefan where to go and how to get there. Ha, about time.

And then, of course, the ending ahaiogaigfajgis. Elena threw the ring Stefan gave her into the water. Then Jeremy her brother saved her from her hallucinations, and Damon saved her from the sun. Stefan was completely useless. The bedroom scene between Elena and Damon was soooo unbelievably sweet, and I think you covered it nicely. HANDPORN!

The breakup scene: Of course, Stefan tried to equate her feelings for Damon to her new-found vampirism, but that doesn't gel with what we know about vampire feelings. In order for a feeling to be "magnified" it needed to be there to begin with. Elena always had feelings for Damon even when she was human, and now that she's a vampire, she can't fight those "magnified" feelings for him anymore. Which also implies that her human feelings for Stefan must have been weaker, or THOSE would've been heightened as well.

The scene basically went as I hoped it would: Elena admitting she always had feelings for Damon, Stefan admitting that his Ripper self drove Damon and her closer together, and Elena telling Stefan that even if she goes back to being human, she won't be the same girl. The only thing I didn't like about the scene was how Stefan played the martyr card and said, "he couldn't do it anymore," or whatever. I would've liked it better if Elena was the one who had officially said they were through.

One random note-- Katherine's speech to Elena basically covered all of the reasons people give for hating Elena: she cries too much, all of her friends sacrifice so much for her, she's a pale imitation of Katherine, etc. I love how the writers gave a snarky nod to those viewers, like "yeah, we know what you think of our girl Elena, and we think your opinion is on par with the hateful, malicious Katherine." HA! Take that, Elena-haters.


Edited at 2012-11-16 03:55 pm (UTC)
wiccabuffy: TVD - Girl Next Door (Nina)wiccabuffy on November 16th, 2012 06:20 pm (UTC)
One random note-- Katherine's speech to Elena basically covered all of the reasons people give for hating Elena: she cries too much, all of her friends sacrifice so much for her, she's a pale imitation of Katherine, etc. I love how the writers gave a snarky nod to those viewers, like "yeah, we know what you think of our girl Elena, and we think your opinion is on par with the hateful, malicious Katherine." HA! Take that, Elena-haters.

THIS.
(no subject) - arabian on November 16th, 2012 08:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
wiccabuffy: TVD - Kat/Crazy Bitchwiccabuffy on November 16th, 2012 06:11 pm (UTC)
So, explain to me like I'm stupid why didn't Klaus kill Hayley?

Because if he did then he wouldn't be able to manipulate Caroline into sexy times. Or at least a date. ;) The longer Hayley is around, the more likely (in his mind) he can get Caroline. (And I think he's so focused on The Five/cure that he's not really thinking about anyone trying to fool him - it's the arrogance in him).

Was it just me or did anyone else hear Elena say "Mommy, I didn't mean to disappoint you"?

Yup, I heard it too. It was so heartbreaking and Nina rocked that scene.

So yeah, this Silas dude is so gonna be a thing, right?

I gotta wonder if Atticus is actually Silas. Or looking for him, at least.

Gotta say, I'm even more frustrated with Joshua Butler with each passing episode.

I don't quite get the same thing - I thought this was a beautiful Delena and Klaroline episode, actually! And to me the way Elena reached out to Damon, grabbed his hand first, smiled... and then Damon was the one to be honest to her about everything? It was wonderfully played and lead right into the Stelena break-up, which was quiet and they were separated from each other on the stairs. I didn't need the break-up lead-in (although I think that Elena loving her vampire side more and realizing that it is allowing her to love Damon more freely than before because it "consumes her" helps!). To me, it flowed nicely.

Everything about Alaric/Team Badass being mentioned is awesome. Thank you, show. And thank you for Jeremy being badass now, but also one of the "monsters" who will kill a nice guy. Tyler's speech to Caroline about that was great and made me actually LIKE him for the first time, ever. Because he was right. We don't have any heroes on this show anymore - everyone is a monster of some kind except for April, the innocent. The human. (No, Matt doesn't count because even Matt has turned to the side of the vamps/hybrids/wolves/witches/hunters/etc). We lost our heroes, and now everyone is filled with shades of grey. They might do things to help each other out, but are they truly trying to save the word from bad guys this season? Nope, not anymore, not while Stefan can help dagger his ex-lover Rebekah, Bonnie and Caroline can turn over a nice guy who helped Elena to be killed, Jeremy kills that same friend of Tyler's, Klaus walks around town freely, Elena kills a human, Damon tries to rip out his brother's heart, Matt gets involved in letting Elena feed off humans... the town is filled with monsters. I love it, don't get me wrong, but who is right these days? Who is wrong? It's so hard to tell and while I can cheer for Damon saving Elena, at the same time you wonder - what IF Elena had died? One less monster in the world, as her "mother" said...

Also Queen Katherine. Just perfect and more please. :)
Arabian: Katherine04arabian on November 16th, 2012 08:18 pm (UTC)
OK, I'm convinced by you and others. I've edited my post to reflect that. (And can I say that I'm amused that you kept the 'explain to me like I'm stupid' part of my comment.) Plus, added to the Caroline aspect, emiv also mentioned the werewolf/hybrid aspect too.

Yup, I heard it too. It was so heartbreaking and Nina rocked that scene.

Good, not just me. And I completely agree. Still not 100% sold on that actress as Elena's mom, she doesn't totally *feel* right to me, but she does look a bit like Steven R. McQueen.

I gotta wonder if Atticus is actually Silas. Or looking for him, at least.

I wonder if he's a descendant or something.

I don't quite get the same thing

Either I didn't make myself clear or I'm not getting your point here. I agree with everything you mentioned that happened in this episode and in all previous episodes except for 4.04 because Butler's direction did NOT sell it. I had no problem with this episode or 4.05 or 4.01-4.03, but Butler's direction did NOT sell this hot, heavy, consumption between Damon and Elena and the growing distance between Stefan and Elena. Maybe he did for you, but considering that the vast majority of fandom was up in arms about that episode, you are one of the lucky few who didn't feel gypped by that episode.

And to me the way Elena reached out to Damon, grabbed his hand first, smiled... and then Damon was the one to be honest to her about everything? It was wonderfully played and lead right into the Stelena break-up, which was quiet and they were separated from each other on the stairs. I didn't need the break-up lead-in. To me, it flowed nicely.

I agree, all of this flowed well. As did all other episodes. It was just that for me and everyone else except for you in my personal experience didn't get that flow from Butler's direction in 4.04. It felt like Damon/Elena took steps back even though on paper they obviously did not. And it felt like Stefan/Elena solidified their relationship, because of direction, despite the fact that again in script, they were still falling further and further away from each other.

We don't have any heroes on this show anymore

Yup, and I'm fine with that. Anyone watching this show for good vs evil is watching the wrong show, LOL! Because all of our "good guys" are actually bad guys. Or helping the bad guys.

Also Queen Katherine. Just perfect and more please. :)

I get why story-wise and logistics-wise, but I want more Katherine. At least flashbacks, or an episode here or there where Stefan or Damon (or ELIJAH!) flies to where she is to do some story-groundwork. That would make me happy!
emiv: tdkr | her protectoremiv on November 16th, 2012 06:14 pm (UTC)
Still processing the rest (all the triangle stuff on the show feels 'too little, too late' for me, but maybe I'm just bitter.), but just wanted to hit on some of the Klaus stuff, mainly this:

So, explain to me like I'm stupid why didn't Klaus kill Hayley?

I could be wrong, but IIRC, aren't werewolves kinda rare? I mean, Klaus had to go all over the country searching them out the first time he was making hybrids, didn't he? If he plans on making more hybrids (his lame lass purpose in life), somehow and at some point, he'd want to keep Hayley alive either to use her or her decedents, I'd imagine. He has nothing but time and it'd be a waste otherwise. It was actually an amazing moment of self control for the guy.

Plus, here's guessing that Hayley's thus-far-lame story arc is not yet over and the writers were, predictably, writing themselves into a corner again.

He's supposedly so bad-ass...Klaus is proving himself to be pretty lame-ass, unscary, stupid and a bit pathetic.

Which is tragic, because he could have been epic. He SHOULD have been epic. He had such potential. The writers missed the boat on Klaus. They played him up too hard, too fast. They gave him too few weaknesses from the start, made him larger than life, then had to back track in both plot points and characterization to justify keeping him around. By and large, the TVD writers lazy with a marked inability to efficiently execute multiple story lines while staying true to character.

Why the hell would anyone let Klaus know that Jeremy is a hunter now?

Agreed. I felt that way too. Mostly because Klaus is selfish and self-serving, single minded and not a team player. He's stakes his own family. He's not really to be trusted with information unless absolutely necessary. (All of which which makes me think that they are foreshadowing more future team ups with Klaus.)

A final word on Klaus in this episode: IMO, his interactions with Elena were kind of adorable. Of course, his main reason for helping her was 'don't die, I need hybrids." but on some level, he empathized. He was commiserating, having a genuine moment, and it was kind of touching. :)


Edited at 2012-11-16 06:14 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Stefan03arabian on November 16th, 2012 08:22 pm (UTC)
I could be wrong, but IIRC, aren't werewolves kinda rare?

Nope, you're right. In addition to the Caroline-aspect, I've changed my mind on that.

Eh, I don't think the writers write themselves into a corner. I still think the show is pretty fantastic overall.

Which is tragic, because he could have been epic. He SHOULD have been epic. He had such potential. The writers missed the boat on Klaus.

I think they just fell in love with Joseph Morgan and couldn't let that go. They needed to come up with better reasons for why Klaus wasn't kill our group. I think they had the perfect opportunity with Stefan. Instead of having Stefan going back to being all anti-Klaus, once he had his 30's memories back we should have seen conflict, that love still there between them which would have led to Klaus choosing to not take down the people Stefan loved... because Klaus loved him and there was still hope for him and Stefan to renew their friendship. Ah well.

Mostly because Klaus is selfish and self-serving, single minded and not a team player. He's stakes his own family. He's not really to be trusted with information unless absolutely necessary.

Exactly.

his interactions with Elena were kind of adorable.

Which is why the show doesn't want to let JMo go, because he does help create these great moments. But, again, we need a more understandable reason as to why he hasn't killed all of these people. :shrugs:
(no subject) - emiv on November 16th, 2012 08:50 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on November 18th, 2012 08:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - emiv on November 19th, 2012 02:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on November 19th, 2012 06:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - emiv on November 19th, 2012 02:21 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on November 19th, 2012 06:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on November 16th, 2012 07:41 pm (UTC)
i dont get why you guys are bashing stefan- she has feelings for his brother why shouldnt he break up with her ? I think he was very noble about it. And i think he needs to find someone who actually deserves him. And i think in a way , stefan knew for a while her feelings for him were changing that's why he wanted the girl- he saw it as their only hope. It had nothing to do with him not liking her as a vampire if she was still elena. I also think thats why he got hurt at the beginning of the episode that she called damon because he knew deep down she had feelings for Damon.
Arabian: Stefan01arabian on November 16th, 2012 07:59 pm (UTC)
I don't see anyone bashing Stefan -- I'm certainly not. Not blowing sunshine up a character's butt 24/7 is not bashing, it's simply not liking everything a character says and does. And for some of us, it's not even that. That's certainly not the case for me. I believe that Stefan has issues -- which is a GOOD thing. It makes him well-rounded and not just a flat, static character. I would think he was noble if it didn't feel like he was letting her go because he was losing her. Which he is. But honestly, I don't think it's about nobility. It's about recognizing that the feelings just aren't there anymore and it's time to move on.

It had nothing to do with him not liking her as a vampire if she was still elena.

I know that, you know that, plenty of us know that... but STEFAN (and Elena) have convinced themselves otherwise because that fits the story they created for themselves of their unending love. The fact that Elena has grown and changed and fallen for Damon not because she's a vampire, but just because she has, is not something either is ready to admit.

Edited at 2012-11-17 04:11 am (UTC)
Jude: tvd; elijahdanceonstardust on November 16th, 2012 08:17 pm (UTC)
Finally an episode I want to download! I have nothing more to say you pretty much summed it up for me.
Arabian: Elijah01arabian on November 16th, 2012 08:24 pm (UTC)
I'm glad you liked it, but it makes me a wee bit sad that others didn't work for you. (I liked 4.02/4.03, 4.05 A LOT as well. 4.01 was good, and 4.04 had the directorial issues, but I really did think the others were great.) I do want to rewatch this one though because I think my headache got in the way of me thinking the episode wasn't better apparently, LOL!
(no subject) - danceonstardust on November 19th, 2012 06:49 am (UTC) (Expand)
wiccabuffy: TVD - Elena OMG!wiccabuffy on November 16th, 2012 09:47 pm (UTC)
Saw this on tumblr and it is so true about this ep in terms of Delena:

1. The daylight ring Stefan put on her finger in 4x01 was cast away by Elena and put back on her finger by Damon
2. The Wickery Bridge, where Stefan first met/saved Elena and later threatened her with and then didn’t save her is where Damon saved Elena in this episode
Arabian: Damon & Elena20arabian on November 17th, 2012 01:48 am (UTC)
Yeah, I'd thought of both but didn't jot it down for some reason. It really does feel often enough like they twist or do-over S/E stuff to make it better for us. And it happens a lot. Is there any wonder that I'm so positive Damon/Elena are it? I mean, I was thinking of how over-the-top they did their big kiss in 3.19 -- the first time that Elena kissed him outside of, you know, extenuating circumstances -- and that is just NOT something you do for the couple that isn't THE couple. It just ain't.
Florencia: DE (Together)florencia7 on November 16th, 2012 09:50 pm (UTC)
I hope your migraine is gone by now! *hugs*

...”is clear that there are only certain aspects specific to a person that are amplified” - I was just wondering about that. Do you think there is some kind of pattern here that would explain why only certain aspects are amplified and why, for example, it's this and not that aspect in case of a given character? Stefan/Elena conversation made me think of that, since they promptly ignored the fact that either Elena's magnified feelings for Stefan weren't as strong as her feelings for Damon or that for some reason her feelings for Stefan weren't affected.

I LOVED the jumping off the bridge scene. I'm going to include your gif of that scene in my every post for the next two weeks LOL One of the things I love about this show is how it makes a point of fixing things, coming back to certain settings and re-making the scenes that went “wrong” (in a widely understood sense of the word). 3x10 DE kiss on the porch “fixed” Damon/Katherine!Elena kiss in 1x22. 4x01 “fixed” 2x08 in a way. Damon blood saving Elena in 3x22 “fixed” him force-feeding her his blood in S2. In this episode they “fixed” two scenes: Elena's traumatic experiences with Wickery Bridge - by having Damon not only save her, but also jump with her in the first place. The beautiful symbolism of that almost made me cry happy tears ^^ They also “fixed” Damon “killing” Jeremy in 2x01 by having Elena “kill” Jeremy!

”Just because Stefan and Elena are saying these words doesn't mean that the SHOW is saying it's only human!Elena for Stefan and vamp!Elena for Damon.” - This THIS so much! 3x19 made it *kind of* obvious Elena could hardly handle her feelings, so the way she's presenting her feelings now is not a lame progression to DE – it is Elena being herself, the denial girl still. She's beginning to accept things but she's still not ready to endorse of all her actions and feelings. But we'll get there eventually, there is no doubt about that :)

Those two little Jeremy/Damon and Matt/Damon moments were awesome. And Damon/Alaric!!! ♥

LOL I totally agree about Klaus. I was feeling almost sorry for him in this episode. He was just giving off that vibe, I don't know, of someone trying to be useful? Something like that. Something that felt... off. Apparently, with a new villain on the way the show feels like Klaus doesn't have to be too menacing anymore. Speaking of a new villain... I admit, I'll need to rewatch the episode, because I was so wrapped up in what was happening with Elena and DE that I didn't pay attention to what Prof. Shane was saying lol But whatever it was that he was saying, it looks like the greater evil is that immortal guy he mentioned, right? And something about the way in which he insisted Bonnie should come to him when Jeremy's mark is complete makes me think that the mark is not only a map to the cure, but that it will also bring that new evil to MF...

I hate to break it to you, but Damon turning human is a very popular theory since... 2x12 ^^ So nothing too new about that. I actually like this idea because it seems like it could provide an interesting twist and something for Elena and Damon to struggle with between themselves. If DE happens this season I'm sure the show won't spare them having issues, and I would much rather have them have some non-Stefan-related issues in S5.

One thing that worries me, though... In this episode, three people (Jeremy, Damon, Elena) mentioned Damon dying. It doesn't matter it was in all three cases humorous. What matters is that it was mentioned three times and there is no way that was accidental *sigh*

Last but not least, you might want to investigate if one of your beta-readers isn't Julie in disguise ;) It's not the first time the show is borrowing ideas from you! Lol

I love reading your thoughts SO MUCH! ♥
Arabian: Damon & Elena18arabian on November 17th, 2012 01:58 am (UTC)
My migraine went away, thanks. :)

Do you think there is some kind of pattern here that would explain why only certain aspects are amplified and why, for example, it's this and not that aspect in case of a given character?

I don't think so; I think it's just random.

they promptly ignored the fact that either Elena's magnified feelings for Stefan weren't as strong as her feelings for Damon or that for some reason her feelings for Stefan weren't affected

That's what I meant when I referred to that point being unspoken. They both knew it, they just weren't gonna say it because it messed with the perfect fairytale of their twu wuv when Elena was a human. If her feelings for Damon were stronger than what she felt for Stefan then, well, it means that this lie they are telling themselves now to justify why they're breaking up without it tainting their love is just that ... a lie.

One of the things I love about this show is how it makes a point of fixing things, coming back to certain settings and re-making the scenes

Yup, wiccabuffy just referenced that above too. They did it a lot in season 03 also. Since it's pretty much always in our favor, I will not complain! :)

He was just giving off that vibe, I don't know, of someone trying to be useful?

To me, it read as pathetic, honestly.

I hate to break it to you, but Damon turning human is a very popular theory since... 2x12 ^^ So nothing too new about that.

Oh, I wasn't clear -- I meant new as in it won't be Elena who is turned human by the cure, it's Damon. I've been talking about Damon being human for quite, quite some time myself. I meant specifically to THIS new set up.

If DE happens this season I'm sure the show won't spare them having issues

That's what I'm thinking. That them together, really together, where they are officially together, will happen towards the end of the season. Then boom! Damon turns human. That way they don't mess with the whole 'if Elena was human, she'd be with Stefan' lie they've got going on to keep the S/Ers hanging on, and they still keep Damon/Elena together, but it creates a totally new dynamic and one that still keeps Damon/Elena fans left wanting and sticking around for Damon - the vampire fully with Elena. (And then I still think that Elena will be turned back human at some point -- but will at that point reveal that her intention had been to pick Damon before the car crash. Her picking Stefan was all about who to say goodbye to and then her death left her desperate to hold onto her anchor.)

three people (Jeremy, Damon, Elena) mentioned Damon dying.

I honestly think you're reading too much into this. Damon=death happens at least once in every episode, LOL!

Thanks for commenting, and yeah, when *that* happened, I was all SERIOUSLY!?!?!? LOL!
A lurking goblin marionettedanceinacircle on November 17th, 2012 01:37 am (UTC)
Ahhhhh, you made a comment in your post that reminded me of something that happened in the books but hasn't happened in the show but could theoretically happen and I was all set to tell you about it and then I didn't know if book-happenings counted as spoilers? Or if they only count as spoilers when they could possibly happen on the show?
Arabian: Damon03arabian on November 17th, 2012 01:46 am (UTC)
If it's pertaining to something specifically happening on the show where it's pretty durn likely, yes, it will go spoilery, don't, but if not, it's fine. On the other hand, if it's that Damon turns human in the books. I already know that.
(no subject) - danceinacircle on November 17th, 2012 01:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on November 17th, 2012 01:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on November 17th, 2012 06:53 am (UTC)
So I thought this episode was fantastic!!! I actually didn't find that it dragged at all. In fact I looked at the clock and it was only a half hour in and I though "wow so much has happened and we're only at the halfway point." Elena's progression as a character was just fabulous! I thought the hallucinations were really well done.

I have a few thoughts on each storyline:
I thought the Tyler, Caroline, Hayley storyline was interesting. Was I the only one who was hoping Klaus would just kill Tyler when he was all up in Chris's face and Hayley was provoking him? I'm just ready for Tyler to be dead at this point. He made some itneresting points in his argument with caroline, but he is still really boring to me.

Jeremy killing an innocent was extremely distirbing. I understand that everyone wanted to save Elena, but I could only imagine what will come of Jeremy now that he's involved big time in this Cure plot.

Now, for the main triangle. Oh let me count the ways of how I love where they are taking this! Damon and Elena's relationship was just so strong and on point that I seriously forget sometimes that they aren't dating. They really do act like a married couple. I'm sure the writers are pretty terrified over the prospect of possibly losing that energy and spark that Delena gives when there's a ton of tension between them, but they already act like they're married. There wouldn't be that much of a difference in the show at this point.

I thought it was interesting to see Stefan really try to save Elena hoping that he would be Elena's hero and actually save her, unlike the last time he tried to save her where she actually died. He failed and I think that's part of the reason where he just realized that he need to get out of his bubble and look around...she's not calling your name buddy. She's calling Damon.

That bedroom scene is just perfect...nothing else needs to be said. Elena looked so smitten and frankly in love when she looked at Damon. Damon looked like he was ready to crawl in a hole and die LOL! Did anynone notice that he was shaking when Elena took his hand. So perfect and sweet!!!

I loved that they practically recreated the crash in the finale without the car so Damon can save Elena and that they recreated the premiere opening scene but with Damon at the helm of all of Elena's love. Damon's truthfullness in that bedroom scene really hit home for Elena, you can see it in her eyes.

I for one do not want to see Damon turning human because I feel the fix isway too easy.
Arabian: Damon & Elena18arabian on November 18th, 2012 09:00 am (UTC)
So I thought this episode was fantastic!!! I actually didn't find that it dragged at all. In fact I looked at the clock and it was only a half hour in and I though "wow so much has happened and we're only at the halfway point." Elena's progression as a character was just fabulous! I thought the hallucinations were really well done.

Honestly, I'm re-assessing my take on the episode and will probably write up a second post. I had the beginnings of a migraine, and my cat was sick which only got worse, so I wasn't actually 100% all there watching it.

I thought the Tyler, Caroline, Hayley storyline was interesting. Was I the only one who was hoping Klaus would just kill Tyler when he was all up in Chris's face and Hayley was provoking him?

Erm, I'm ALWAYS ready for someone to just kill Tyler. If the next episode began with Tyler being beheaded, I'd be down with that.

Jeremy killing an innocent was extremely distirbing. I understand that everyone wanted to save Elena, but I could only imagine what will come of Jeremy now that he's involved big time in this Cure plot.

Yup, that's one of the things I want to talk about in my follow-up on this episode. It really got my head spinning.

NThey really do act like a married couple. I'm sure the writers are pretty terrified over the prospect of possibly losing that energy and spark that Delena gives when there's a ton of tension between them, but they already act like they're married. There wouldn't be that much of a difference in the show at this point.

That's a really good point. And on top of that, the make-outs would be hot!

That bedroom scene is just perfect...nothing else needs to be said. Elena looked so smitten and frankly in love when she looked at Damon.

Yup. Elena was just all aglow over, about, to Damon. It was beautiful.

Did anynone notice that he was shaking when Elena took his hand. So perfect and sweet!!!

I did not notice that, I'l have to look for that.

I loved that they practically recreated the crash in the finale without the car so Damon can save Elena and that they recreated the premiere opening scene but with Damon at the helm of all of Elena's love. Damon's truthfullness in that bedroom scene really hit home for Elena, you can see it in her eyes.

Yup, yup, yup -- another thing I'm gonna focus on in that follow-up post. It really was just so lovely.

I for one do not want to see Damon turning human because I feel the fix is way too easy.

First of all, I wouldn't even remotely expect it to last. Secondly, how is it easy? If Damon is human, Elena is still a vampire which creates a whole new set of problems for them. Plus, it allows us to explore a whole new side of Damon.
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on November 18th, 2012 03:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on November 18th, 2012 10:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on November 19th, 2012 07:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on November 19th, 2012 01:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)