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01 April 2012 @ 10:19 pm
Oh, I dunno ...  
I'm back to being pessimistic about The Vampire Diaries.

Apparently previous spoilers are wrong, and not only do S/E dance (which, yeah I did already know) in 3.20, it's apparently not a big D/E episode, but rather a BIG S/E episode. And I just -- I can't wrap my brain around Elena being with this guy after what he did on the bridge. I know, I know, what Damon did to Jeremy -- but that wasn't personal, that wasn't after she'd fallen in love with Damon, that wasn't after they'd been together. It was PERSONAL what Stefan did. And she and Stefan are going to dance, and have sweet, wonderful moments and get all close and intimate. Sure whatever happens with D/E in 3.19 is supposed to count, but when have Damon/Elena EVER gotten balance on this show? Uhm, never. So I'm not holding my breath here.

And now I'm back to thinking that Elena's going to either choose Stefan or choose neither one of them at the end of the season, kicking Damon (and the D/E shippers in the gut YET AGAIN!). I don't know how much more I can take of this ripping apart my shipper heart and I ADORE this show. There are so many D/E fans out there who don't even like the show anymore. No wonder the ratings are tanking. I'm sorry, but they were hitting the mid-to-higher two million viewers in the second half of season 02. Then the finale promised Damon/Elena. The first half of season two started to rise from those mid-to-higher two million to between three and mid-three million again. And other than 3.10 (where Damon/Elena kissed), there's been nothing but crumbs with them this second half and the ratings are falling back into the mid-to-higher two millions, with the last episode actually dipping below 2.5 (a 2.44). What is it going to take to wake them up to the fact that lack of Damon/Elena is HURTING the ratings.

There is no way you're not going to tell me there isn't some sort of connection here. Especially when Damon/Elena sweep every couple poll over Stefan/Elena, not to mention all of the buzz, talk, everywhere about them. The fandom is NOT evenly split, not by a long shot and because of that I can't honestly even understand the show being so determined to give both couples a fair shake more or less this season. And even if I could for that reason, it still wouldn't mesh because the first two seasons were NON-STOP STEFAN/ELENA! We're at the end of season 03 and Damon/Elena have YET to have even remotely as much good stuff as S/E.

And I'm whining, but I can't help it. IT'S NOT FAIR!

And damnit! One more rant. I'm fucking sick and tired of the lack of Damon-love on the show. Everyone treats him like crap. And he doesn't deserve it. Not now. Not when everyone else gets sunshine blown up their ass and forgiveness with a bouquet for any bad thing they do or it's flat-out ignored (paging Stefan!). But Damon?! He's still gets treated like crap for stuff he did in the first season and first episode of season 02, never mind EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY THING he's done good since then. What? Because he's snarky? Why shouldn't he be? Everyone treats him like crap.

GAH!
 
 
 
sumeriasumeria on April 2nd, 2012 02:38 am (UTC)
So, I am very delinquent in commenting on people's episode reviews, I know; mea culpea; RL has been hellish and all-consuming. But I could not let this one go by without throwing in a ray of hope, because that is what Friends Are For.

But! Before I venture into spoiler-land, have you seen the extended preview for next episode?

In the most general terms, I agree with you entirely that they are being Too Slow. But it remains the case that the overall story is bending in the direction of D/E. I wish they'd speed it up, and I could not agree more that it is well past time for people to realize how much Damon does for them, but... So far, "bad writing" has not been one of TVD's faults. And though I never really thought S/E had good chemistry, and thus, am not in a position to really analyze their current status in re:chemistry, what I'm seeing on my screen looks more like a long slow move towards closure than a resumption of romance.

D/E remains the only direction that makes any kind of sense with the narrative flow, and until it starts flowing in a different direction, I refuse to panic.

Edited at 2012-04-02 03:19 am (UTC)
Arabian: Katherine02arabian on April 2nd, 2012 03:31 am (UTC)
have you seen the extended preview for next episode?

Yes, and I was happy about it until I found out that while 19 is a big D/E episode, 3.20 is a big S/E episode. I'd like to believe that it's heading to closure, but all descriptions so far of 3.20 do NOT sound that way, so I'm leery.

I know you are right, I know, I know, I know. It's not bad writing, it's just that some things do need to be dealt with. Like this:

I could not agree more that it is well past time for people to realize how much Damon does for them

And this:

I agree with you entirely that they are being Too Slow.

YES.

It's just that we're getting near the end of three seasons here and the D/E fans are STILL in a holding pattern, while the S/E fans are being "rewarded for their patience." Give me a fucking break. What about the D/Ers, damnit!?

(no subject) - sumeria on April 2nd, 2012 04:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 2nd, 2012 07:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 2nd, 2012 07:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
jamdouradojamdourado on April 2nd, 2012 03:15 am (UTC)
Agree 100% with you,.
They give us some development to keep watching the show and it's like delena never happened on the next episodes. I love the building up of my couple but I think it's time to see them moving forward, we have been waiting for three seasons and there's nothing that indicate Elena will choose Damon yet.
I'm hoping the 3x20 stelena scenes will be like their farewell, they will try to go back on how they used to be and Elena will realize that she can't be with Stefan, 3x21 she will finally admit to herself she is in love with Damon and 3x22 she will say it to Damon, just to make tradition delena season finale.
I know I shouldn't be too optimistic, but I refuse to believe SE will be together again.
Arabian: Damon & Elena06arabian on April 2nd, 2012 03:34 am (UTC)
Well, I do feel like they have continued with D/E and haven't actually dropped their story or the build-up. While we got nothing from Damon in episodes 12-17, we DID get stuff from Elena.

3.11 - She did tell Damon not to kiss her, but it was done with complete and utter regret and it was shown very obviously how much she wants him.
3.12 - She was trying to block out what happened, and shutting down the conversation with Bonnie instead of denying anything there, plus when she told Stefan that she kissed Damon, she phrased it that way, taking ownership of what happened.
3.13 - She did try and call Damon after what happened with Ric, but HE didn't answer her call.
3.14 - She did make a point of taking Damon's arm, when Stefan took hers, she did flirt lightly with him when he asked her to dance, and look at my icon - that's Elena looking AT Damon when they dance. She did look back at his body in regret after Stefan snapped his neck, she did feel immediate regret after she said what she did that hurt him.
3.15 - We saw her restless over him, know that she tried to call him over and over after the ball, when she spoke to him and things were clearly still bad, she rushed over, completely ignored Stefan's presence as she tried to justify why Damon slept with Rebekah, and basically fretted and bitched about it to EVERYONE throughout the episode.
3.16 - When Damon was an ass to her upon first seeing him, she told him to stop pushing away people who care about him, implying that he was pushing her away, she also told Matt that she couldn't shake Damon, he was under her skin.

And, yeah, there was nothing in 3.17, but even 3.18, we did get her pushing Stefan to drop their kill the Originals!plan -- which is really pretty much for HER benefit -- to save Damon.

So we have had the story from her end continue.

I'm hoping the 3x20 stelena scenes will be like their farewell, they will try to go back on how they used to be and Elena will realize that she can't be with Stefan, 3x21 she will finally admit to herself she is in love with Damon and 3x22 she will say it to Damon, just to make tradition delena season finale.

That would be lovely.

I know I shouldn't be too optimistic, but I refuse to believe SE will be together again.

I was convinced of it, but now I'm getting worried and I DON'T want to get my hopes up. Sigh.
shipperjunkieshipperjunkie on April 2nd, 2012 03:16 am (UTC)
I understand exactly how you feel. Being a Damon/Elena shipper is fucking depressing lately. It just is. The writers seem bound and determined to make sure that for every scrap of good our side gets, the SE get something even more spectacular.

Fans are going nuts over this promo, but I keep telling myself not to even get too excited. She says, "Stefan thinks that I have feelings for you." Damon, with that face and that voice, says, "Do you?" We, of course, don't see her reply. I'm betting her reply is, "I told Stefan I don't know how I feel about you." Or, "I do, but Stefan blah blah blah."

In reply to a tweet asking if everything in the promo was real, Julie Plec said that 90% of it was, and that everything we (DEers) want to see is really in there. There's a part of the clip that nobody seems to be talking about, where it appears Stefan gets pissed off and punches Damon in their dungeon and looks in on someone through the bars. I wonder if that's in his head in response to Damon and Elena going on a trip together. Because that would show the SEers that he's back and jealous and willing to fight for her. BAAAAAAAAAARF.

To know that the very next episode has her dancing with Stefan and sharing a big moment that will 'reward the SE fans for their patience' just makes me want to back off shipping this show and trying to watch it from a casual viewpoint. Because JP and Co could not have fucked up this triangle more this season. They had to change Damon's character to even make him a palatable, viable, realistic option for Elena. He's grown and changed and developed lightening fast, considering it's only been a year and a half or so TVD time. And then to not actually put him with Elena, only get close, after all the buildup? The hell, man.

To me, the biggest failure is not taking the fanbase seriously. Julie has mentioned in the past, and I believe Ian has as well, that the shippers see the DE relationship as far more than it actually is onscreen. For Elena, by this point in season three, not to have done a little soul-searching on the topic is just stupid, especially when you consider that literally every character besides Jeremy this season has talked to her about the state of their relationship. Beginning with Tyler, Caroline, then Alaric, Bonnie, Rebekah's taunts, even Stefan now has point blank asked her. She has no response? EVEN AFTER KISSING HIM?

This latter half of season three has been so disconnected from the first ten episodes that it seems like brand new writers are behind it. Ever since 3x11, she's been tearing a strip off Damon in every episode at least once, bitch face firmly in place. I don't even want to talk about the ball. Why couldn't we see the moment it clicked for Stefan that Elena has feelings for Damon?

I could go on and on, sorry for the wall of text.
Arabian: Alaric01arabian on April 2nd, 2012 03:28 am (UTC)
I know I vented/ranted above, but I'm actually going to disagree a lot with much of your rant. Do you want me to try and help ease some of your concerns, or did you just want to vent? Because I really do have solid answers for lots of this stuff actually.

ETA: I did want to mention this, though:

it appears Stefan gets pissed off and punches Damon in their dungeon and looks in on someone through the bars

There are screencaps of the promo and as I suspected, it's Alaric that Stefan is hitting it looks like. And it's probably Alaric that Stefan locks up because there are rumors that Alaric's alter-ego kills someone else.

Edited at 2012-04-02 03:32 am (UTC)
(no subject) - shipperjunkie on April 2nd, 2012 03:34 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 2nd, 2012 08:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 2nd, 2012 08:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 2nd, 2012 08:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 2nd, 2012 08:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shipperjunkie on April 2nd, 2012 03:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 2nd, 2012 07:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
eolivet on April 2nd, 2012 03:40 am (UTC)
Wait. So, S/E are going to dance and have a ~moment during a 20s decade dance?! Oh, so they can whitewash all the nasty stuff Stefan did in the actual 20s? Seriously, of ALL THE DECADE DANCES they pick for S/E to have a moment, it's the freaking 20s?!

And Damon would open his veins (LITERALLY!) for a good number of people on the show, FFS!

If Elena waffles in the finale, I'll lose some respect for her. I was just going back over the gifs in the poll and can I count the number of times Damon was there for her this season? Good night nurse... :/
Arabian: Damon & Elena09arabian on April 2nd, 2012 10:24 pm (UTC)
Wait. So, S/E are going to dance and have a ~moment during a 20s decade dance?! Oh, so they can whitewash all the nasty stuff Stefan did in the actual 20s? Seriously, of ALL THE DECADE DANCES they pick for S/E to have a moment, it's the freaking 20s?!

I am bummed that it's the 20's dance, but I don't think it's about whitewashing the stuff from the 20's because he was a Ripper for a lot longer than just that period. (I'm bummed because, hello, Stefan/Rebekah fell in love then!) And while they are going to have their "moment," I'm not sure it's going to end all hunky-dory, and the stuff with D/E in 3.19 IS supposed to matter and not just be swept away. So despite my negativity above, I am actual overall still hopeful, it's just that 3.18 did a number on me (despite my non-ranting review).

And Damon would open his veins (LITERALLY!) for a good number of people on the show, FFS!

He would, but no one seems to realize it. *sigh*

If Elena waffles in the finale, I'll lose some respect for her.

I don't know, I can't say I'll lose respect for her until I see how they play out. As I said in my episode review, Elena forgives EVERYONE horrible things and so for her to not forgive Stefan without discussing would be out of character.

I was just going back over the gifs in the poll and can I count the number of times Damon was there for her this season? Good night nurse... :/

Right, and then from 14 on, he's been a snarky ass who's acting like he doesn't care and screwing other girls, offering her no support or comfort or anything and the only explanation she has for that is her one thoughtless comment -- that she tried to take back immediately -- when she's forgiven him for so, so, so much more. So yeah, still would have liked 3.18 to play out better, but I'm back to hoping, mostly believing, it will all work out as I suspect.

See, I have this venting things, and then as I respond to other venters, I feel better. :)
(no subject) - eolivet on April 3rd, 2012 06:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 3rd, 2012 06:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - eolivet on April 3rd, 2012 06:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 3rd, 2012 07:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
k_stjames: pic#110491197k_stjames on April 2nd, 2012 03:41 am (UTC)
I agree with you 100% but especially about the lack of accountability for Stefan's character. Not only is Elena apparently overlooking the bridge incident but no one else including her judgy friends have once mentioned it or expressed disgust to Stefan for doing that. I mean Caroline has no problem singing Damon when they were passing out the stakes for sleeping with Rebekah but isn't bothered by Stefan acting all superior and giving orders when just the other day he tried to kill Elena. . .again. Them dancing was going to be hard to deal with but if they episode is about them re-bonding with at least talking about all their major issues I will have completely lost faith in the writers. Plus it will destroy any goodwill / forward progress made by DE the episode before. Because don't tell me Damon won't see them getting close. All around the writers make it very hard to be a DE shipper because they give us so little
Arabian: Ian Somerhalder03arabian on April 2nd, 2012 10:30 pm (UTC)
I agree with you 100% but especially about the lack of accountability for Stefan's character. Not only is Elena apparently overlooking the bridge incident but no one else including her judgy friends have once mentioned it or expressed disgust to Stefan for doing that.

Elena, I'm actually fine with. Because Elena forgives EVERYONE horrible things and so for her to not forgive Stefan without discussing would be out of character. The fact that no one else has any issue with him is MY issue. He did HORRIBLE things and there should be some accountability. Grr.

I mean Caroline has no problem singing Damon when they were passing out the stakes for sleeping with Rebekah but isn't bothered by Stefan acting all superior and giving orders when just the other day he tried to kill Elena. . .again.

Caroline, I can deal with because of her past with Damon, but again, the fact that Stefan gets no consequences at all infuriates me.

Them dancing was going to be hard to deal with but if they episode is about them re-bonding with at least talking about all their major issues I will have completely lost faith in the writers.

Agreed; but I think we'll be okay. I'm choosing to believe that now. It HAS to happen with them dealing with some issues.

Plus it will destroy any goodwill / forward progress made by DE the episode before.

And Julie said very specifically that what happens in 3.19 MATTERS plenty so that has to effect what happens in 3.20.

Because don't tell me Damon won't see them getting close.

Actually he might not. I don't think Damon will be at the dance; it appears that there is some great Damon/Alaric in the episode, and I can't NOT be happy about that if it means we're FINALLY going to deal with Ric's treatment of Damon (due to the ring or not). It needs to be acknowledged and dealt with.

All around the writers make it very hard to be a DE shipper because they give us so little

I am refusing to be completely defeatist, and I'm holding onto the hope that this is the dark before the dawn, and that we WILL get them sooner rather than later. And it will be glorious! Ah, I have this venting things, and then as I respond to other venters, I feel better. :)
(no subject) - k_stjames on April 3rd, 2012 02:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 3rd, 2012 02:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
flyingfishflyingfish1 on April 2nd, 2012 05:05 am (UTC)
*resurfaces* Sorry for not having commented lately--I've had things to say, just no time to say them! But I particularly wanted to comment on this.

So--I know exactly what you mean! I've been reading spoilers lately and fretting. Elena's still so stuck, emotionally, and there are only four episodes left, and if one of them is a big S/E episode that doesn't leave much time for D/E to gain momentum leading up to the finale. I've started to wonder if she'll just choose neither of them, which wouldn't be too out of the blue if you take into account where her character is right now...

But. I think she's braver than that, you know? I think she'll screw up her courage and confront all her D/E-related issues, and she'll move on from Stefan. Starting with her birthday in the premiere, this season has been about her growing up, changing, becoming an adult, getting stronger and more confident. I think if she were to stay in her holding pattern with Stefan it would defeat all of that. I know that doesn't necessarily mean she'll get together with Damon in the finale, but I can't see her getting back with Stefan long-term. For an episode, maybe, to try it out and see if it still works, but no more.

Besides, a BIG S/E episode doesn't automatically mean a POSITIVE S/E episode... especially given the promo for 3x19, with Elena actually (gasp) bringing up her feelings for Damon TO Damon, and Stefan seeming resigned to the fact that she's in love with him and that he shouldn't/can't try to win her back since it won't work (at least that's what I'm getting from that quote of his /delusional D/E fangirling). Honestly, at this point I'm guessing a breakup. They never really had one of those while his emotion-switch was on, so it's about time. /delusional D/E fangirling(?) Maybe one of those "I'll always love you but I need time to figure things out" things, to keep the S/E fans semi-content. And on twitter Julie Plec said that the episode made her cry, iirc... which could be relevant.

My two cents :)
flyingfishflyingfish1 on April 2nd, 2012 10:08 pm (UTC)
...Just looking back at this and thinking of other things to add :)

Stefan's been changing too, not only Elena. I'd say that for him, this season has been about facing himself and starting to let go of his delusions, whether they are his delusion of himself as a regular human guy who just happens to have a few dietary issues, or his delusion that Klaus was to blame for everything that's been going wrong in his life lately (as Klaus handily pointed out in the last episode). It's been about him admitting that he has problems that he can't just ignore in hopes that they'll go away. If he were to go back to Elena now, it would just be enabling that denial and it wouldn't help him as a person. Nor would it make him interesting as a character. We've seen all that before, so why would they just rehash it? No, it'd be far more interesting to present him, and Damon and Elena, with a scenario that none of them have been in before and see how they react to that.

Oh, and I should clarify, just in case I second-guessed myself into incomprehensibility up there, I do think Elena and Damon are going to get together this season--maybe not becoming an official "couple" yet, but I'm sure there'll be some declarations of love and some kissing. It's possible that it won't happen, but I do think it will.

Okay, I think that's all I've got to say. You never know, though :D
(no subject) - arabian on April 2nd, 2012 11:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - flyingfish1 on April 3rd, 2012 01:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 3rd, 2012 01:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - arabian on April 2nd, 2012 10:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
sun_sign: DamonxKol Foreversun_sign on April 2nd, 2012 07:29 am (UTC)
DE fans have been victims of trolling. And it happens all the time! We can only get used to it. :(

I don't have any problem with the other characters being cold towards Damon - lord knows he's done everything he can to deserve it. The problem is how easily the same characters let Stefan get away. I don't know if it's because the writers are scared of letting people have an opinion on him, if they don't have time to squeeze it in to the episodes, or if they've simply forgotten about it. Either way, it's not doing the character any service. Stefan is an interesting, complex character and he deserves better than being treated like a fragile porcelain vase by the writers.
Arabian: Damon&Liz01arabian on April 2nd, 2012 10:31 pm (UTC)
DE fans have been victims of trolling.

I don't think so. I think that they have a progression of a story they are telling that leads to Damon/Elena, but they know when they get there that Stefan/Elena fans will be out in the cold for awhile (hopefully) and so they are trying to ease into it. Which I do get, I just -- yeah, I just needed SOMETHING from Elena in the second half of the last episode. That's my big issue. :(

And it happens all the time! We can only get used to it. :(

Other than releasing that still of them -- which was likely as less their decision as are how the promos are cut -- they didn't troll us. The network did so to drum up interest in the episode. I can't blame the execs/writers for what the network does. I can blame them for not giving SOMETHING more from Elena in the second half of the last episode, though.

I don't have any problem with the other characters being cold towards Damon - lord knows he's done everything he can to deserve it.

Nope, that I can NOT agree with. Not anymore. He did the first season and the first episode of season 02. That's it. Other than that, he's been snarky, and saving their lives, formulating plans to keep as many of them alive and safe as possible, working with them to get the job done, putting his own life at risk to save them (Caroline specifically and Matt in 2.20), making the absolute best of the hard choices. He deserves some slack BIG-TIME now. Sassy nicknames and sarcasm when paired with a vampire with his switch turned off -- which they are ALL aware of now what that means -- who has risked his life multiple times, saved all of their lives multiple times and worked with and to help them multiple times is worthy of more than a cold, nasty shoulder at this point. However ...

The problem is how easily the same characters let Stefan get away.

Yes. This I agree with. Elena, I'm actually fine with. Because Elena forgives EVERYONE horrible things and so for her to not forgive Stefan without discussing would be out of character. Girl's a forgiver, period. If she could forgive Damon for snapping her brother's neck without discussing it with him, I can completely buy her forgiving Stefan his actions. It's the fact that no one else has any issue with him is MY issue. He did HORRIBLE things and there should be some accountability. Grr.

I don't know if it's because the writers are scared of letting people have an opinion on him, if they don't have time to squeeze it in to the episodes, or if they've simply forgotten about it. Either way, it's not doing the character any service. Stefan is an interesting, complex character and he deserves better than being treated like a fragile porcelain vase by the writers.

This, this, this. You know how hard I ♥ this show and send bouquets of love to the writers/execs on a regular basis, but this is VERY irksome. Very, very, very irksome.
(no subject) - sun_sign on April 4th, 2012 02:00 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - sun_sign on April 4th, 2012 04:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Daughter of Eveprincess_narnia on April 2nd, 2012 07:30 am (UTC)
The most recent episode really disappointed me on the Damon/Elena/Stefan front. After everything that's happened we have that moment at the end where Stefan confesses his love for her (yawn) and she's now even more stubborn about how he can be saved. The things he did this season (ripper, the horrific bridge moment and so many others) means he needs to be in the dog house. If Damon did even an ounce of what Stefan did Elena would be side eying him and giving him quite a telling off.

Are the ratings tanking? I haven't kept track of ratings. I always figured they would do ok but this ratings dip is very telling. Even critics and reviewers are pretty obviously Damon/Elena shippers. For one thing, they love Ian and his portrayal of Damon. And the Damon/Elena pairing sizzles, unlike Stefan/Elena which has me rolling my eyes...even more so now.

Whining is allowed, bb. ;) :D I think quite a few of us are seriously annoyed that they keep baiting us with supposed Damon/Elena scenes or moments and then screw it up by making it all about Stefan/Elena.

And the writers should realize just how good the character of Damon Salvatore has been for this show. For me episode 1 really began only when Damon appeared in the last few minutes. He really is the soul of the show; flaws and all.
Arabian: Damon02arabian on April 2nd, 2012 11:19 pm (UTC)
The most recent episode really disappointed me on the Damon/Elena/Stefan front.

It did me too, but I think for different reasons.

After everything that's happened we have that moment at the end where Stefan confesses his love for her

I wa sokay with that because he hasn't done so to her SINCE last season.

she's now even more stubborn about how he can be saved.

Which she should be. An unsaved Stefan is a VERY bad thing, and she knows that it's something that both she and Damon want. And Stefan IS showing signs that he can be saved, which is good. Means less people dying horrifically.

The things he did this season (ripper, the horrific bridge moment and so many others) means he needs to be in the dog house.

I agree for other people, but I can let it slide with Elena. Because she's a forgiver and it's completely in character.

If Damon did even an ounce of what Stefan did Elena would be side eying him and giving him quite a telling off.

Well, she did forgive him for killing her brother without talking it out. She did forgive him for a lot of others things he did, and has let his stuff recently slide. He killed Abby -- the best option, but still -- and she didn't tell him off or side eye him for that. And there HAVE been extenuating circumstances with Stefan and all the stuff he did. Does it excuse it? Nope, but none of Damon's extenuating circumstances -- which were MUCH less extenuating -- excused his actions. Should he be getting a cold treatment from the others (outside of Damon and Elena)? Yes. Definitely yes. That's where my biggest frustration lies.

Are the ratings tanking? I haven't kept track of ratings. I always figured they would do ok but this ratings dip is very telling. Even critics and reviewers are pretty obviously Damon/Elena shippers. For one thing, they love Ian and his portrayal of Damon. And the Damon/Elena pairing sizzles, unlike Stefan/Elena which has me rolling my eyes...even more so now.

Yeah, they're going down which they started to do the last half of last season before rising again the first half of this season, and now they're dipping again. *sigh*

Whining is allowed, bb. ;) :D I think quite a few of us are seriously annoyed that they keep baiting us with supposed Damon/Elena scenes or moments and then screw it up by making it all about Stefan/Elena.

Well, obviously, I'm venting, but I actually haven't seen ANY D/E scenes or moments that were about S/E at all. In fact, the opposite. A lot of moments that seemed to be about S/E wound up being more about Damon/Elena, like the last scene in 3.18. It wasn't about Stefan and Elena's love/relationship, but rather about Elena's love for Damon.

And the writers should realize just how good the character of Damon Salvatore has been for this show. For me episode 1 really began only when Damon appeared in the last few minutes. He really is the soul of the show; flaws and all.

I think they do; I just think that maybe they listen to haters in the fandom and assume that they can't let others let him off the hook to appease the haters without realizing that outside of the fringe fanatical fandom, Damon Salvatore is a RIDICULOUSLY popular character.
Bogwitchbogwitch on April 2nd, 2012 07:45 am (UTC)
If Elena is to make her choice in the finale, then Stefan has to be a viable option.
Arabian: Damon&Stefan02arabian on April 2nd, 2012 10:32 pm (UTC)
*Sigh.* True. I have these venting posts, and then responding to other venters, I do wind up feeling better. I just need to get it out sometimes.
(no subject) - bogwitch on April 2nd, 2012 10:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 2nd, 2012 11:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
x5valex5vale on April 2nd, 2012 08:29 am (UTC)
Plec tweeted that when all is said and done both teams will be happy/sad/hurt/touched/compassionate.

I don't know exactly where they are going, but I do think Delena won't be the endgame of this season. It will be but not yet. For me it would be ok if this didn't break Damon...I want him to have some happiness and since he loves Elena, it has to be Elena.

That being said, I think there's the need to have an intense Stelena episode because they need closure. The last convo they had looked like closure to me..at least on Stefan's part.

Let's be positive ok?

Btw didn't Plec say that D/E would have a scene in 3.20? She said that 3.20 would have Dalaric and at least one D/E scene, here the tweets:


julieplec ‏ :@mettaputri @hershlags they get some nice moments in a few weeks. your patience will be rewarded at the Decade Dance.
@julieplec What about our patience? We Delena fans have been patient for 3 years!?
@julieplec will damon and elena be getting any significant romantic moments in the decade dance as well?or just 319?


Edited at 2012-04-02 11:18 am (UTC)
Arabian: Damon11arabian on April 3rd, 2012 12:29 am (UTC)
Plec tweeted that when all is said and done both teams will be happy/sad/hurt/touched/compassionate.

Yeah, she was just tweeting that to avoid giving out the outcome of the season. She might as well have not even responded to that tweet for as little information as she gave. :rolls eyes:

I don't know exactly where they are going, but I do think Delena won't be the endgame of this season. It will be but not yet. For me it would be ok if this didn't break Damon...I want him to have some happiness and since he loves Elena, it has to be Elena.

I dunno, everything has led down a path that leads to Elena picking Damon. And I just see it this way, Stefan/Elena got two full seasons, Damon/Elena need AT LEAST that much and I've read (fairly reliably) that the three leads are only signed for five seasons, so it's only "fair and balanced" -- as they keep going on and on about -- that D/E get two seasons. So they damn well better be heading straight to D/E by the end of this season or I WILL be pissed. We've earned it. We've waited long enough. She talks about S/E fans being rewarded for their patience (pfft!), D/Eers have been patient for a HELLUVA lot longer.

That being said, I think there's the need to have an intense Stelena episode because they need closure. The last convo they had looked like closure to me..at least on Stefan's part.

Well considering we ARE getting romantic S/E stuff in 3.20 clearly it wasn't.

Let's be positive ok?

I'm trying to be positive, and I do feel mostly better, I just, ugh! I'm tired of the whole "fair and balanced" thing they're talking about which never mattered much when Stefan and Elena were the couple, and Damon was pretty much out of the loop.

Btw didn't Plec say that D/E would have a scene in 3.20? She said that 3.20 would have Dalaric and at least one D/E scene

Nope, I'll I read is that S/E is a big episode, and that it's a BIG Damon/Alaric story.

julieplec ‏ :@mettaputri @hershlags they get some nice moments in a few weeks. your patience will be rewarded at the Decade Dance.
@julieplec What about our patience? We Delena fans have been patient for 3 years!?
@julieplec will damon and elena be getting any significant romantic moments in the decade dance as well?or just 319?


Re: These tweets, the "your patience will be rewarded at the Decade Dance." is for Stefan/Elena fans. Which kinda infuriated Damon/Elena fans, which this tweet: "What about our patience? We Delena fans have been patient for 3 years!?" was all about. That one she didn't respond to, but she made sure to let the S/E fans know that THEIR patience was being rewarded. And THAT is what is so frustrating. The "they get some nice moments in a few weeks" was to Damon/Elena fans, meaning nothing in 3.20, and the "your patience will be rewarded" was for Stefan/Elena fans. So once again, she gave solace to the S/E fans, while ignoring the D/E fans and their patience. Yes, she acknowledged that they would get stuff beyond 3.20, but the whole "patience" thing being ignored really steamed people because we've been SO MUCH MORE patient and have been waiting so much longer than S/E for the GOOD stuff.

Sigh. I'm choosing to believe she does this because they know the long game and they know that it's Damon/Elena -- sooner rather than later -- and that therefore they don't have to appease that fanbase because to them the writing is on the wall. What is happening on the show should suffice. The problem is that they don't seem to realize that just because THEY know what's happening, people have been burned too often to see that logical, narrative flow.

Ah well, we'll know in a few months what's going on. :)

Edited at 2012-04-03 12:31 am (UTC)
(no subject) - x5vale on April 3rd, 2012 07:57 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 3rd, 2012 08:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - x5vale on April 4th, 2012 07:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
Jamiemadjm on April 2nd, 2012 02:07 pm (UTC)
What you said. Totally.

Sorry, I have no further comment because I'm kind of not loving the show anymore. At least, not like I used to.
Arabian: Damon & Elena13arabian on April 3rd, 2012 12:34 am (UTC)
What you said. Totally.

And I am feeling better overall now. I DO think we're getting D/E and soon, and I do think that we've had a good narrative flow with D/E this season that makes sense.

Sorry, I have no further comment because I'm kind of not loving the show anymore. At least, not like I used to.

Sorry about that, other than this last episode which I felt missed the ball in a few areas, I've been very happy with the show overall.
wickedrumwickedrum on April 2nd, 2012 05:48 pm (UTC)
sorry, but I dont even understand "shipping". Not to the extent of making someone depressed, desperate, without hope and not watching the show anymore for being too bitter. There's something seriously wrong with that concept.

It annoys me a lot that Damon is not treated fairly in the show and he possibly never will and I do have problems with the writing and some of the characters as a result at times, but I love my Damon and no one is gonna take that away from me!
Arabian: Ian & Nina14arabian on April 2nd, 2012 05:59 pm (UTC)
sorry, but I dont even understand "shipping". Not to the extent of making someone depressed, desperate, without hope and not watching the show anymore for being too bitter. There's something seriously wrong with that concept.

I don't feel this way about TVD because I love it, but for other shows when the ONLY reason I watched it was because I shipped a couple and everything was a clusterfuck in that department? Yeah, I stopped watching, so I get why people who don't enjoy anything about a show OTHER than a couple and that couple is screwed over why they'd stop watching it. And I don't find anything "seriously wrong" with it. Anyone can watch a show for any reason that they want to, and anyone can choose to stop watching a show for whatever reason they want to. If their enjoyment is derived solely from shipping a pairing on that show, and that pairing is shat all over, it wouldn't make sense to continue watching if you now had NOTHING to enjoy about it.

I love my Damon and no one is gonna take that away from me!

I don't get how this corresponds with anything I said actually. I never said that it would take my love for Damon away from me, or that it would for anyone else. I'm just frustrated that he doesn't get credit for all he does because he does a LOT of stuff and other than Elena's thank you in "The New Deal," (and Liz -- one of the less-important, although I love her, recurring characters -- who does appear to appreciate him), he's never gotten a bit of appreciation from anyone else at any other time. And it's annoying.
wickedrumwickedrum on April 2nd, 2012 06:25 pm (UTC)
I dont see how people who bail on a show for any reason consider themselves fans at all. What it proves to me that they aren't and they never really were. This outburst of mine is excusively directed at shipppers who have made checking up on and talking about the show sour on any website. ("Im gonna stop watching the show bla bla bla", pointing fingers at the other group of fans, how many times did I hear that!)

Why cant everyone just sit back and enjoy the ride? I think my mind is starting to explode at the pure mention of shippers any minute now.
Arabian: TVD-Cast01arabian on April 2nd, 2012 06:35 pm (UTC)
I dont see how people who bail on a show for any reason consider themselves fans at all.

Because they aren't fans of the show, they are fans of the couple, and there's nothing wrong with that. Shippers get a bad rep because they are loyal to their couple, and yes, there are some crazies out there, but that's true of any fan(atic). There are crazy fans of characters and shows who are looney-tunes, but for some reason that just gets thrown at the shippers only.

Why cant everyone just sit back and enjoy the ride?

Because not everyone enjoys the ride. Some people just enjoy aspects of the ride. I tend to try and enjoy all parts of a show, and when it gets to the point that it's JUST the couple I enjoy, I stop talking about the show period. And when the couple is no longer enjoyable due to show shenanigans about the couple, I stop watching the show. Yes, some people are FREAKING annoying about, but it's not just shippers. Shippers just get the brunt of it. As annoying are people who go on tirades and rants about shippers ruining the show (I'm not saying you are doing that at all, I'm talking about people who really rag and rip a show apart BECAUSE of shipping and blame everything they don't like on the show on the shippers). I just don't think it's right to blame one subset of fandom and label them as the crazy ones when there are anti-shippers and fans of a particular character/actor who can and are just as crazy, if not more than shippers. There aren't crazy shippers; there are crazy fans. Some are shippers. Some are anti-shippers. Some are crazy fans of another aspect of the show, but only shippers get the (negative) media attention, and thus their crazy is more spotlighted upon in fandom.

This outburst of mine is excusively directed at shipppers who have made checking up on and talking about the show sour on any website.

That I can see and agree with, but again, for me it's not just shippers who do that. There are fanatical fans of Damon/Ian who make it so not fun to go to certain places because everyone else (Elena, Stefan, etc.) suck because they don't worship at the ground of Damon. And I can no longer go to places that act like Damon is the evil and devil incarnate and rant and rave how horrible the show is because of him. And there are places where people act like Stefan is the most perfect of all creatures and anyone who doesn't see that is watching the show wrong. However, if you're talking about the place we both frequent, the shippers and Damon-stans do that for me to the point where I can barely stand to read it anymore.

I think legitimate criticism is fair and valid -- as I do think my criticism in this post is (D/E do deserve some balance, Damon does deserve to get some consideration by now) -- but the rantings with little logic or attention paid to the actual constructs and reality of the show, but solely about their frustration regarding a specific couple or character, is very frustrating. To that I agree completely.

(BTW: If you want to respond to this comment specifically click on the reply button under here, not on the post new comment. That starts a new thread. :)

Edited at 2012-04-02 06:38 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - wickedrum on April 2nd, 2012 07:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 3rd, 2012 01:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - wickedrum on April 3rd, 2012 02:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bogwitch on April 2nd, 2012 07:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 3rd, 2012 01:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
vanimy: Elena/Carolinevanimy on April 2nd, 2012 09:04 pm (UTC)
PART 1 (yeah, yeah, I know!:p)

:o If you of all people stop being optimistic about Delena, we're all screwed! ;)

You already know I (unfortunately) agree with you a lot on this!

Every single time I try to relax and enjoy the ride something happens and I feel like we (Delena) shippers get screwed up. I also feel like they're trying too hard to please both sides, D/E and S/E. I find myself (almost!!) regretting the days when Stefan and Elena were together and it was out in the open at least and Damon and Elena had their little moments (the key word here is 'almost'! :P). because right now, no side is happy. Damon/Elena haven't moved forward since the kiss (8 episodes ago??!), Stefan/Elena fans have had no romantic scenes either.

I'm one of those who follow a show rabidly because of ships but shipping's only the difference between me following a show with interest and being obsessed with it. ;) I'm perfectly capable of following and loving a show even without my ship getting any moments. I kept following 'Friends' till the end even as they kept screwing over Ross and Rachel repeatedly. I kept following BtVS till the bitter end even though my ship was gone (Buffy/Angel ; and the storylines started to suck but that's another story...).

Heck season 2 of TVD still remains my favorite for now even with that season totally lacking in Damon/Elena interaction.

I know we disagree on this, but I think the dip in ratings isn't just about Delena (it's definitely one of the reasons but not the only one), I think this season lacks a sense of... urgency. First season was all about establishing the bases but also had a sense of urgency with the Stefan on human blood storyline, the kill-vampires-device. Season 2 increased all this, I felt, because Elena's life was at stake during all the second part of the season. Season 3? Mmh. The first part of the season had it, mostly because it was all about saving Stefan and Ripper!Stefan and how far he would go. The second part? Nothing at all. Stefan's more or less back to normal, Elena's life isn't at risk anymore, the Originals storyline is running in circles and never had much of an impact on the Scooby gang. I even had to stop once the other day and remember why they were all so intent on killing Klaus and all the originals in the first place.

I think this season doesn't feel cohesive generally speaking. The whole Sage story for example felt like such a waste. The only purpose it served was to show the consequences of killing an original but that could've been done easily with a character like Troy. She was supposed to mean something to Damon, but she didn't, not really, to the point we're not even shown his reaction to her death (remember Lexi's death after just one episode?).

Basically I feel like the general idea is still great TVD but the execution is severely flawed. Ric's ring plotline -even though I really loved the twist- was too subtly foreshadowed to make sense for the casual viewer. Elena and Damon pulling away from each other after the kiss makes a lot of sense from a narrative POV but the execution makes Elena look like she doesn't give a damn about Damon. They're supposed to be estranged to show what they're both missing (well, I hope so) but no scene shows that. It would've taken one little scene where Elena could've taken her phone, stared at Damon's name then decided against calling him, whatever, anything. Even season 1 with Elena fighting against her attraction to Damon like mad had moments when Elena looked a little bit too flustered even while snarking at Damon. None of that now, no little sign.
Arabian: Damon&Alaric02arabian on April 3rd, 2012 01:53 am (UTC)
Part 1 of (erm) 3 (maybe?) --

PART 1 (yeah, yeah, I know!:p)

Dude! You saw my response to your posts in the episode thread!

:o If you of all people stop being optimistic about Delena, we're all screwed! ;)

If it helps, I feel mostly better now. It's just that as much as I was able to go with the flow about the last episode, I was disappointed in the reaction to Damon's kidnapping overall, and from Elena especially. I was able to rationalize most of it away, but not seeing anything AT ALL from Elena beyond that one scene where she asked about rescuing him was very, very disheartening. I get the why of the kidnapping, but it felt like a HUGE wasted opportunity to show the others realizing that Damon does mean at least a LITTLE something to them, and Elena getting a kick in the pants about her feelings for him, and Stefan seeing that reaction from her which led to that scene at the end.

You already know I (unfortunately) agree with you a lot on this!

I know, but I DO feel better now!

Every single time I try to relax and enjoy the ride something happens and I feel like we (Delena) shippers get screwed up.

But I don't think we will. We get 3.19 which is supposed to matter plenty lots, and yeah there's stuff with S/E in 3.20, but she also said there is stuff with D/E in a few weeks meaning we'll get stuff in 3.21 and probably 3.22 as well.

I also feel like they're trying too hard to please both sides, D/E and S/E.

I actually think they're trying to please S/E and this is my theory why, they know the long game and they know that it's Damon/Elena -- sooner rather than later -- and that therefore they don't have to appease that fanbase because to them the writing is on the wall. What is happening on the show should suffice. The problem is that they don't seem to realize that just because THEY know what's happening, people have been burned too often to see that logical, narrative flow.

I find myself (almost!!) regretting the days when Stefan and Elena were together and it was out in the open at least and Damon and Elena had their little moments (the key word here is 'almost'! :P).

I think that the opposite is going to happen next season. I do think Damon/Elena will be together, and Stefan will be on the outside and there were still be moments with Elena because she can't help it, she does love him.

no side is happy.

Honestly, prior to 3.18, I was pretty happy with D/E's progression.

Damon/Elena haven't moved forward since the kiss (8 episodes ago??!)

See, I do think there has been progression. Elena's reaction to Damon potentially kissing her again showed very clearly that she wants him, but she doesn't feel that it's right to. Then in 3.14, Damon DID let the elephant out. Flat-out saying with no extenuating circumstances that he loved her was a definite progression because you can't put that back in the box. You can't blame it on a deathbed confession, or what someone else says and hey, they could be wrong! Then in 3.15, we had Damon pulling away which led to Elena truly hurt ... which she wouldn't have been did she not have those feelings. And while she and Damon were playing the who can pretend they care less game, Elena was reaching a place with Stefan where they could deal with some of their stuff. And them dealing with their stuff HAS TO HAPPEN before Damon and Elena can happen.

TBC
(no subject) - vanimy on April 6th, 2012 03:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 3rd, 2012 01:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on April 6th, 2012 03:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 3rd, 2012 01:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on April 6th, 2012 04:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on April 6th, 2012 04:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
vanimy: Damon/Stefanvanimy on April 2nd, 2012 09:06 pm (UTC)
PART 2 :

And that makes people mad, me thinks and makes people give up on Delena. My sister (who is the one who introduced me to TVD, bless her) who watches TVD every Thursday but isn't as involved as I am in the fandom is getting tired of it all and almost swore off Delena forever after 'Dangerous Liaisons' and she shipped Delena way before I started to... I think a lot of casual viewers are getting tired of the lack of Delena and the lack of an interesting plot. I may repeat myself but the plot focused way too much on the Originals in the second part of this season instead of IDK, Stefan and his issues (which is probably why I loved 3x16 so damn much because FINALLY the plot came back to our favorite characters). Oh well. I rambled again!!

Anyway, *hugs*, because even though I'm pessimistic in spite of myself, I don't like seeing you feeling down.
Arabian: Damon&Stefan02arabian on April 3rd, 2012 01:57 am (UTC)
And that makes people mad, me thinks and makes people give up on Delena. My sister (who is the one who introduced me to TVD, bless her) who watches TVD every Thursday but isn't as involved as I am in the fandom is getting tired of it all and almost swore off Delena forever after 'Dangerous Liaisons' and she shipped Delena way before I started to... I think a lot of casual viewers are getting tired of the lack of Delena and the lack of an interesting plot. I may repeat myself but the plot focused way too much on the Originals in the second part of this season instead of IDK, Stefan and his issues (which is probably why I loved 3x16 so damn much because FINALLY the plot came back to our favorite characters). Oh well. I rambled again!!

I REALLY hope that the last 4 episodes (even the S/E stuff in 3.20) winds up making all of this work. I remember how freaking frustrated I was during so much of season 02, but the finale and what's happened with Stefan and Elena this season really made that all so obviously planned and executed as intended. (For the most part, I still think they wound up having to drop the Katherine/Stefan aspect, but hope springs eternal we will come back to that eventually.)

Anyway, *hugs*, because even though I'm pessimistic in spite of myself, I don't like seeing you feeling down.

As you can tell, I'm much better. :) I just needed a vent! Thanks for listening, and by responding to you, feeling better. {{HUGS}}
(no subject) - vanimy on April 6th, 2012 04:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)