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22 July 2006 @ 06:36 am
VM Spoilers -- Why I'm So Bummed  
I'm trying to articulate why I seem such a bitter hardass about the casting spoiler and the clear hints regarding storyline that we're getting.

I wouldn't like it, but I honestly wouldn't be so upset about a love interest for Veronica, for Logan, Logan/Veronica breaking up constantly and all of the spoilers that are indicating clearly that that is exactly what's going to happen were it not for the fact that both Rob Thomas and Kristen Bell have made it abundantly clear that neither one of them actually wants Logan and Veronica together.

Both clearly consider Logan a bad guy, a screw-up and Bell has made it crystal-clear that Logan is a terrible boyfriend for Veronica in her opinion and that she deserves someone so much better. Meanwhile Rob has made it clear that Logan will never change or learn, he'll just continue to be a spoiled, poor little rich boy who doesn't give a crap and scews up his life. We may have gotten the "epic" speech from Logan, but I don't believe for one second that Thomas actually believes that Logan and Veronica are epic and I damn well know that Bell doesn't believe it (based on EVERY quote and comment she's made about the Logan/Veronica relationship and the Logan character).

Therefore it's hard to go with the flow and the up and down, down, down and more down of the Logan/Veronica relationship when the showrunner seems to be unwillingly (and barely) featuring it because he's being forced to by their overwhelming (and completely unplanned popularity) and the star of the show so very much wants her character paired with practically anyone BUT Logan.

It's just sad because it doesn't matter if the higher-ups force it, it doesn't matter if fan outcry forces it, it will never be given the true loving attention to character, to story, to making it shine from the showrunner and star because neither one believes that it should even be happening. And that's just depressing. To be so behind the popular couple that almost everyone wants and still be on the losing end because the two people who have the most say in what happens with that couple don't want them to be a couple.
Femme Fetale: [vm]Smiles and Twirls. Like Good Old Dayslayervixen on July 22nd, 2006 11:25 am (UTC)
Amen. Its heartbreaking because the downright hatred RT/KB seem to have for the character of Logan will ALWAYS affect the outcome of stories and such. I dunno anymore.
polarthestral on July 22nd, 2006 01:03 pm (UTC)
Maybe RT purposefully omits all their important moments (when they're together as a couple, when Logan finally told her about the 'horrible' thing he did and she said something actually supportive, all the awkward meaningful moments post 2.20, when they got back together, and now their real relationship AGAIN) because he just doesn't care about the relationship.

The one thing we've got that was "big" this season was the epic speech and it fit the LoVe formula perfectly: Squee!LoVe - ARGHH! Knife to the heart! He only makes them happy in little second long intervals, then Logan does something stupid (or Veronica just thinks he does - but apparently there is no distinction between the two in RT-land) and Veronica bolts from him without giving him a chance or hearing him out or forgiving him like she does with Duncan. And it's over. Again. I'm sick of the ship existing in seconds. I think I just want a whole episode, a whole episode where they're happy and Veronica isn't staring at him like she's waiting for the other shoe to drop and Logan doesn't end up staring at his heart crushed under her heel.

It's just not realistic that they couldn't last for an episode when they can last for a months off screen. What? Are they camera shy?

I understand your frustration and I almost feel like I don't want to have faith because I had faith throughout all of season two and I was disappointed by the reunion they had. I'll be even more disappointed (and angry) at the token reunion in season two if he splits them up early again this season.

B xxx
Emma Bruty: LoVe icon - part of layout by micra77egirl on July 22nd, 2006 03:08 pm (UTC)
I'm sick of the ship existing in seconds.

Guess he was trying to tell us all something when he chose Momentary Thing as the theme to that groundbreaking moment. The theme in more ways than one, obviously. :-P

Sylvikefishsanwitt on July 22nd, 2006 03:36 pm (UTC)
From the 'kind-of-bitter' corner here of another fandom - sounds likes a repeat of Joss/Spike&Buffy - to me.

One characters breaks out - and it's not what the showrunner and star envisioned.

Have these people *never* heard of Pirandello?

once "a character is born, he acquires such an independence, even of his own author, that he can be imagined by everybody in situations where the author never dreamed of placing him, and so acquires a meaning which the author never thought of giving him."

Sylvike: reading Spikefishsanwitt on July 22nd, 2006 03:38 pm (UTC)
And to add - "and since the author has no more control over said character, he might become a wee bit bitter because the character has run away from him and his vision" or some such thing - I'm not a writer :)
A Girl Called Shannon: VM - Lg/VM - Time After Timezimshan on July 22nd, 2006 04:37 pm (UTC)
Man. You guys really need to be in a fandom that makes shipper life hard. :p

The guy loves the ship. He's in for the long haul with these guys and he has been since the first season. He just isn’t ALL ABOUT the ship. Seriously. Try being in a fandom for years, shipping like crazy while everyone around you tells you the ship your ship is wrong because the text itself says so. That every single writer decides to just ignore that it ever happened. Try knowing what it is like to ship a ship that has been basically written off, leaving you almost completely hopeless that that ship’s ship will ever sail again in anything other than the average fic.

Damn, who would have thought that being in the DC fandom would end up mellowing ME out? Man, now that's a laugh! But it's true. Rob has already given this ship SOO MUCH. This fandom is a dream come true for me in comparision to...every other ship I've ever shipped. Rob took a ship that in any other fandom would have been the minority and made it a majority.

I really don't think anyone should even care about KB's words because they really don't matter. KB is playing Veronica and so she's going to be about as biase as Veronica herself. But as far as Rob's words, you really can't take a couple of things Rob has said and rip them to shreads. Put yourself in his shoes of a large panel situation. He's asked a question and he has to have an immediate response. Guy's only human. He's not going to have the perfect response everytime that in all ways and forms, twists and turns, is exactly what he believes. He's got a million and one things to thing about, not being able to offend actors and his crew, making sure not to say to much and give away spoilers, etc.

I make a point not to ever really trust writers completely, but really, it's not as bad a situation as you think...
Arabian: One Angry Loganarabian on July 22nd, 2006 05:17 pm (UTC)
I have been in SOOO many ships like the one you describe, so please don't assume that this is my first fandom. I know what's it like to have your ship not shipped by those in charge ... ad nauseum. I could list countless couples, but here's a biggie: Buffy and XANDER on BtVS. I'm not some newbie who doesn't know her way around the fandom block.

Frankly, you and everyone else can tell me that Rob loves the ship till all are blue in the face, but what I see on my screen is a show run by someone who does NOT love the ship, it's run by someone who does not like the ship. If he did, we'd actually SEE the ship. If we did, he wouldn't present one-half of the ship in the worst light possible at almost every turn. If he did, we'd actually have more than fifteen minutes of the couple in the ship happy in near 44 hours of television.

Frankly, I would LOVE if the show was not about the ship. I would love if S2 had just had Logan at the door, those two a couple and that's it. No big fuss, no big to do. Veronica working on cases, Logan her boyfriend, helping and hindering investigations, Duncan repairing his relationship with Logan, not Veronica. That way the show would have stayed about Veronica and the mysteries, instead of becoming this neverending game of Rob trying to make any couple that features Logan and Veronica but does not pair Logan and Veronica work so that he can stop dealing with the shippers.
A Girl Called Shannon: VM - Lg - Peacezimshan on July 22nd, 2006 05:35 pm (UTC)
Oh, hon, I'm not going all 'newbie declaring' on you. It's my bad for kind of responding to bunches of shippers in my comment to your post. I'm not against ranting about writers because Lord only knows I've done my fair share. I'm just saying, it could be ALOT worse. I mean, we have text that TELLS us they are important to the show. Important enough that they're not just going to put them together and let them be happy at the drop of a hat. The second they do that, then I'll believe Rob no longer cares about the ship.

As far as Logan being portrayed in bad light, well, if they continue doing this next season, ad nauseum, without portraying V in the same 'No, she's not a saint' light, I agree, it will get ridiculous and tiresome and old and quite frankly just wrong for the ship. I'm with you there. I'd love to see them have V screw up their relationship because of something she does, not just because of something Logan does. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Arabian: peace_learabian on July 22nd, 2006 05:54 pm (UTC)
Kay, thanks. Yeah, you're right, it could be a lot worse (see, Buffy/Xander), it just frustrates me the same reason that VM frustrates me in general. S1 was SO good and so already we saw the heights it could reach and it's frustrating not seeing that even remotely matched (imo).

I had promised myself that no matter how infuriated I got, I would continue watching the show as long as JD was on it, but if they pull the same crap in S3 that they did in S2, I'm not sure if I CAN stick around. And here comes that frustration again, this was such a FANTASTIC show season one and the quality just dropped in S2 and I want the glory of S1 again. I really do.