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24 September 2008 @ 09:28 pm
'Doctor Who' Rewatch-Review readres, a question ...  
I've been playing with the idea of doing episodes beyond the episodes where Rose makes a big appearance, and I was looking for suggestions as to which series three, series four, specials you all think would be appropriate to include and why (if you're so inclined). I'm thinking on the non series two, non final three of series four, episodes that in some strong way relate to the Rose/Doctor relationship.

Thanks :)
But you can call me Bowie: dr who rose/nineisiscaughey on September 25th, 2008 04:59 am (UTC)
The Runaway Bride for sure, and probably Partners in Crime. But other than that, it's pretty subjective. There are a lot of subtle and not so subtle mentions of Rose, and episodes that could be considered important. Perhaps chose the ones you like best?
Arabian: Dr Who (9)arabian on September 25th, 2008 12:28 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I have TRB and PiC on the list. Thanks. :)
blackcat_1 on September 25th, 2008 09:34 am (UTC)
'Runaway Bride'- DEFINITELY. Very shippy in several places and we see the Doctor at an all time low, as a direct response of losing the woman he loves. It also sets the foundations for the supportive relationship Donna provides him with; she is the only companion who gets to see exactly what Rose means to him.

'Smith and Jones'- POSSIBLY. The end of the episode provides an interesting insight to how the Doctor perceives the relationship he had with Rose and thee's the wistful moment in the middle of the episode when he and Martha discuss the Battle of Canary Wharf.

'The Shakespeare Code'- DEFINITELY. Not particularly because of the 'Rose would know' bit, but in his reaction to Lillith when she exposes the loss he is still feeling without Rose. Very telling and I don't know how anyone can say he is not in love with Rose, after watching that scene.

'Human Nature'- DEFINITELY. He's John Smith by day, but I think how he falls in love and clearly desires a family life illustrate a subconscious longing. And of course, by night, in his dreams, he becomes the man he truly is and writes a journal about his adventures; yet the only thing he can name is the recurring woman whe 'keeps walking away' from him. Wow. A this ep must be a psychologists dream! And I think, ties in nicely with JE.

'Utopia'- DEFINITELY. His in-denial explanation to Jack about Rose at the beginning of the ep, to the way he snaps at Jack and Martha when they rib him about making exceptions for a certain blonde through to his truthful discussion with Jack about Rose later on, are all good reasons to analyse this ep.

'Partners in Crime'- DEFINITELY. There's the Doctor/Donna conversation about Rose at the end and of course, Rose's appearance.

'Fires of Pompeii'- POSSIBLY. Although there's really only his facial reaction to 'she is returning'.

'Planet of the Ood'- POSSIBLY. The 'your song will end soon' accompanied by the Doomsday music and his curious expression is interesting and there is also (what I perceived to be) his double meaning when Donna was referring to the Doctor being able hear the the Ood's song all the time.
blackcat_1 on September 25th, 2008 09:38 am (UTC)
Sorry about the typo's above! I can't edit, as I don't have a paid account!
Also, wrt PiC, I meant when Donna asked the Doctor about Rose, somewhere in the middle, not the end.
Arabian: Dr Who (10) - Kissarabian on September 25th, 2008 12:27 pm (UTC)
TRB, TSC, Utopia and PiC I had already decided to add, so I'm glad you mentioned those.

I would S&J, but, but, but I hate the fact that he kisses Martha, yes, I know why, but I don't want to watch it again. I know, I know, I'm silly, and honestly, I don't like the episode much.

I have issues with HN/FoB. I know it's not the Doctor, but I found it grossly unfair that we got to see him live out a normal life (marriage, babies, growing old together) even in the span of seconds with someone who wasn't Rose, and then could never throw in that fantasy scenario somehow for Rose and the Doctor. It just really bugged me. So yeah, I have issues. And maybe it would have been okay if I liked Joan, but she's patronizing and kinda annoying, and I don't think she and DT have ANY chemistry.

I've thought of FoP, but I'm just not terribly fond of the episode itself which is my main deterrent in including it. But tell me more about why you think PotO should be included. I love that episode and would love to have a reason to include it.
blackcat_1 on September 26th, 2008 03:51 pm (UTC)
Well, there's the bit when the Doctor and Donna are looking at the Ood in the cell and the Doctor can hear their song. He does the mind-meld thing with Donna so she can hear it, but it upsets her so much that she asks him to stop. She then acknowledges how he however, can still hear it and he says, "all the time." Now it's quite possible that I'm reading too much into this, but the way that line is delivered (tone, facial expression etc) makes me wonder whether a double meaning is intended, particularly when coupled with the "Your song must end soon" at the end. It's as if he is not only referring to the Ood's song, but also to the song of separation from Rose (ie the 'Doomsday' song, albeit the meaning is probably metaphorical rather than literal, but the music is played for the benefit of the viewer, so they can understand his meaning. Maybe.)

I don't think I've explained myself very well. Rather waffly. Hopefully you'll get the gist of it!
Arabian: Dr Who (10) - Kissarabian on September 26th, 2008 05:16 pm (UTC)
Oh, that actually does make sense. I think I can wing it AND borrow your thought process for the write-up!! Cool!!
blackcat_1 on October 9th, 2008 08:12 pm (UTC)
I have issues with HN/FoB. I know it's not the Doctor, but I found it grossly unfair that we got to see him live out a normal life (marriage, babies, growing old together) even in the span of seconds with someone who wasn't Rose, and then could never throw in that fantasy scenario somehow for Rose and the Doctor.

OK, this response is way late, and I've been meaning to add this and finally remembered!

I totally get and fully understand your viewpoint here. However, another way of looking at this (indeed, the way I interpreted it), is that whilst we are seeing John Smith live out the life he longs for with Joan, this is, in actual fact, implying that in his sub-conscious, this is what the Doctor is longing for with Rose (which, of course, is supported by other subtlties throughout the 4 series). And what I find especially beautiful about this episode, in retrospect, is that he finally does get this for real, with Rose (albeit as TenToo).
EVERYTHING IS RULED BY THE STARSreddening on September 25th, 2008 10:47 am (UTC)
Here's a fervent vote for 'Utopia.' Rose's specter is all over it, and the Doctor/Jack conversation (with Martha listening in) is one of my favorite bits of S3. When the Doctor talks about Rose you can tell he's trying for flat affect, but underneath it you can hear pain and even bitterness.

Personally, this was the first episode of S3 that I saw after I stopped watching post-'Doomsday,' and it was what convinced me to give the rest of S3 a chance. I thought if the Doctor still felt this raw and unsettled about Rose's departure almost a full series later, then they couldn't have been as dismissive or minimizing as I had feared.
Arabianarabian on September 25th, 2008 12:28 pm (UTC)
Yup, I added "Utopia" to the list. As you said: Rose's specter is all over it, plus, I ADORE that episode.
boundaid: A - Alice Smithboundaid on September 25th, 2008 11:57 pm (UTC)
Jennifer, this is off topic.

I opened a MB for Carrie Underwood and I was wondering if you could help me or if you would be interested in being a moderator?

Of course, I will not be offended. I'm not jumping ship from Kelly, but there is no room for competition with KCE.
Arabian: Kelly_Stararabian on September 26th, 2008 12:19 am (UTC)
I'd totally do it, if uhm, I liked Carrie Underwood. I like some of her songs, but I don't like her. Sorry. If you have any questions, or anything that maybe I can help with, go for it. Just email me - arabean@comcast.net - and I'll try to help.
boundaid: M - You make me laugh; pityboundaid on September 26th, 2008 12:33 am (UTC)
Oh no you are totally fine. I used to ... just think Carrie was fake. She walked into a genre that was a no brainer commercially BUT she has grown on me. She is a strong vocalist (who also practices oversingling like every American Idol winner/ex contestant). I started one for her and one for Jennifer Hudson.