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06 February 2007 @ 10:07 pm
VM 3.12 Thoughts, yeah, uhm okay  
Watched it, thoughts behind the cut.

So, Logan lied -- he was talking about surfer skank and not Madison. Congrats, Rob. Logan's the bad guy again. Yay!

I'm sorry, but how is it so horribly Madison's fault re: the roofie'ing. LOGAN brought the GHB!! DICK drugged the drink. Yes, it was crappy that Madison passed her the drink with spit, but my God! she had NO IDEA there was GHB in it! Madison is NOT, was NOT responsible for the roofie'ing. She's forgiven Logan and Dick, but Madison -- the only one of the three who knew nothing about the drug and she's the one Veronica still blames.

Sorry, I don't get how THIS is the thing that Veronica can't forgive. And her making Logan sleeping with Madison ALL ABOUT HER, did she learn nothing from season two? Not everything is about her. I'm sorry, I just - -I get that she's miserable and upset, but breaking up with him ... I don't get it. Give herself some time, some space, but ending it?!? Yeah, don't get it.

Seriously, it sure seems like the ONLY point of the reunion was so that Veronica could be the dumper as opposed to the dumpee to restore Veronica's power position.

I HATED the Logan/Veronica arc, totally, completely, absolutely hated every single solitary second of it. HATED IT!

Oh, and about the MotW, I totally called that Phyllis was the guilty party when Veronica first met her. I actually thought the MotW was really good -- even if it did feature hypocritical Veronica, her comment about people taking pics of her was horrible, while she was doing the same against Madison, and then ooh, her stellar detective work, yet again completely jumping to the conclusion about Tim. Anyone could have given her that bookmark, not just the guy who gave her the book. They don't come hand in hand. Gah. If this episode was supposed to make me feel sympathy for Veronica, didn't work, all of the progress from the last three episodes has pretty much been completely undone for me.

Adding a bit more that spewed out in response to another opinion: I'll continue to watch VM for Logan/Jason, and I'll enjoy to some degree L/V scenes because of the chemistry and I'm a whore for great chemistry, but yeah, any lingering belief that this show could be good again, that RT had an actual good plan, is not the most sexist, misogynistic showrunner right now? Just all went out the window. I was disgusted, so, so, soooooo disgusted. Congrats, Rob, you pretty much killed Logan/Veronica. And it's ALL LOGAN'S FAULT!!!!! Yay you!!!

Whatever, Rob, what the fuck ever.

and this one rather kicked me in the gut pretty badly. Sigh.

No, it needs more.


No more.

FUCK!!!!!!!!!! I just realized how completely and utterly Rob fucking Thomas undid it all. Remember when in Spit & Eggs Logan broke up with Veronica, he told her that she made him feel as if she always disappointed him? Well, look at the lovely reverse Rob pulled tonight? In the voicemail that Veronica'll never hear because the bitch got rid of it like the crap she thinks it (and he?) is, Logan told her that it's nice to know that someone still has such high expectations of him. And I really don't think he was being sarcastic there, no, he really meant that she had the high expectations of him to think that he wouldn't do something so horrible as have a one-stand after he broke up with his girlfriend and was completely unattached. So yeah, in the eight weeks between their break-up, because Veronica YET AGAIN though the worst of him, he now claims that instead of making him feel like he's a disappointment, she -- and only she, the great and glorious, perfect, pretty, pretty princess that is Veronica -- is the only one who has high expectations of him anymore.

Kill. Me. Now.
beatlegirl59 on February 7th, 2007 03:23 am (UTC)
I totally agree. If they were going to make her all weird about Madison, it should have been about how she made Veronica's life miserable after Lily died. That would have made way more sense. I can't even relate with V on the Slut thing...yes, it was awful, but she did see Veronica making out with her boyfriend. The LoVe stuff was just terrible in this episode.
Arabian: Don't LIke Youarabian on February 7th, 2007 03:30 am (UTC)
Yeah, that would have worked. But this?!?! Complete and utter shit!
polarthestral on February 7th, 2007 03:35 am (UTC)
But you don't actually think it came across as Logan's fault do you as opposed to Veronica thinking it was all his fault?

I don't think the show can make me think it was Logan's fault since he was single, no matter how Veronica spins it.

I'm glad I was already pretty much a Logan fan before the backlash of this episode happened. lol
Arabian: One Angry Loganarabian on February 7th, 2007 03:50 am (UTC)
Oh, I don't think it's Logan's fault, but that's the way it sure seemed to be presented on the show. He was apologizing for it. Veronica basically said it was Logan's fault. Logan said he lied, Dick was pissed at Logan for it. So yeah, sure seems like the intention of Rob was to paint it as Logan's fault. Which is why I won't go anywhere but safe places online because I'm sure he's being massacred elsewhere.
polarthestral on February 7th, 2007 04:05 am (UTC)
I still can't believe Dick is pissed. That makes no sense characterization wise. Dick was never possessive of Madison and didn't even care when Logan fucked his step-mother. (And he might not have thought of her as a mother, but she was still his father's wife) Dick has a cest la vie perspective on sex. I don't think he's ever been in love in his life and it makes no sense that he'd be pissed at Logan for nailing Madison. That pisses me off more than Veronica's reaction, because her reaction makes sense even if it is annoying. Dick's reaction is clearly to contrive Logan doing the most heinous crime ever and rendering him alone again.

RT is a douche, seriously. He wrote this storyline for no other reason than so he could rip them apart and keep them apart. Drawn a line between the Veronica fans and Logan fans and fence them away from each other. Well, if she wants a nice perfet utterly boring guy that never upsets her because she's the only one with the right to FUCK UP big time on this show . .. then she can have her Piz. Go fall in love with Pizzer and have lots of fluffy little pod babies.

I hate more that Logan takes it from her now. He's taken it for three seasons and let her reduce his self worth until he thinks he deserves everythig she blames him for. He's done bad things but this . . . no. I refuse to take her side and I hate seeing Logan once again completely self destructing because of her and how much he's let himself agree with her. I didn't like Hannah/Logan that much but at least she believed in him and scraped him off the floor at his lowest point by making him hope he could be good. I want him to do that by himself this time, to tell Veronica to go to hell and believe in himself because he's not a bad man and I hate that she makes him feel that way.
Arabian: One Angry Loganarabian on February 7th, 2007 04:22 am (UTC)
Well, frankly, I figure I'll be ffing a lot more episodes now because I'm giving each episode about 10 minutes and then I'll only be watching Logan stuff because, yeah, good job, Rob, you killed it tonight.

The thing is it doesn't even matter if Veronica is supposed to or not supposed to fall for Piz, La Bell will play it that way so it doesn't really matter. And after this episode, yeah, I doubt she loves him now.
tigereyes320tigereyes320 on February 7th, 2007 03:40 am (UTC)
How right you are
RT is the biggest hypocritical a** there is. Dick can be mad at Logan for hooking up with Madison and in the next breath be thrilled he could Veronica's rebound guy.

I can understand how Veronica could blame Madison, somethings never make sense. There is always one person in high school who was the bane of your exsistence, Madison is Veronica's.

I HATED that she deleted Logan's message becuase he was right you dig deep enough everyone is a bad guy. I think Logan meant what he said the last episode he did regret what he did, he just never told her who or who many times, which she didn't ask if there was more than one.

Logan is never going to be the bad guy for me in this situation. I thought Dick made a good point exactly how many guys is Veronica going to screw with. Why does Logan have to something he's not to be worthy of her. No one is perfect including Veronica MArs. I'm so made at her as a character I actually want Logan to hook up with someone like Parker, he needs to be happy, because unless Veronica's world is perfect she blames Logan.

BTW way did you catch the interview with RT about why everyone likes Dick all of a sudden, because the actor grew on them they redeemed his character. Maybe someone should remind him without Logan there is no show.
Arabian: One Angry Loganarabian on February 7th, 2007 04:26 am (UTC)
Re: How right you are
RT is the biggest hypocritical a** there is. Dick can be mad at Logan for hooking up with Madison and in the next breath be thrilled he could Veronica's rebound guy.

I KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just hated it all tonight.

When?!?! was Dick redeemed!?!? He wasn't redeemed, they simply ignored everything he did. But Logan!? Never mind that viewers adore him, not only is nothing he's done ever redeemed, but he gets blamed for crimes he didn't commit as well.

sowell: Gamefacesowell on February 7th, 2007 03:43 am (UTC)
Seriously, it sure seems like the ONLY point of the reunion was so that Veronica could be the dumper as opposed to the dumpee to restore Veronica's power position.

That was my absolute worst fear when those spoilers came out, and hey! It turned out to be 100% true. Fuck.
polarthestral on February 7th, 2007 03:59 am (UTC)
That's what I figured the only purpose was as soon as I heard these spoilers. There's no other reason - story wise - that you'd do a breakup reversal so quickly after they've already broken up. There was no purpose aside from taking the power and self esteem Logan had earned in "Spit and Eggs" and tossing it underneath Veroica's steam roller once again. Now she can be self righteous, climb on top of her mantle piece and look down on him once more and say 'THIS' is why we're not together, it's all 'YOU' and I'm 'PERFECT'. Logan should tell her to fuck off and go be with someone who doesn't, in his words, get off on judging him.
Arabian: Prettyx2 Princessarabian on February 7th, 2007 04:31 am (UTC)
Of course, Veronica is perfect. A pretty, pretty princess. Oh, how La Bell must have relished this scenes, knowing that she would barely have to work with that horrible Jason Dohring again and would no doubt soon have the glory of sharing the screen with an actor playing ANY character other than Logan.

Too bad, Rob didn't decide to do the sexual rebound with Dick and Veronica, La Bell probably would have loved it!!!!!!!!!! It wasn't Logan. Ooh, and maybe she'd kiss him with her lips not pursed tighter than a pig's ass!
Stephanie: Logan skystephanierb on February 7th, 2007 03:51 am (UTC)

I'm sorry, but how is it so horribly Madison's fault re: the roofie'ing.

WORD. My reaction after hearing Veronica's rant was WTF?! Madison was completely clueless about the GHB in the drink. She is in no way, shape or form responsible for Veronica's rape. And IMO, neither is Logan. He might have brought the drugs, but he didn't dose Veronica and he didn't buy it with the intention of getting some girl stoned and having his way with her.

And her making Logan sleeping with Madison ALL ABOUT HER, did she learn nothing from season two? Not everything is about her. I'm sorry, I just - -I get that she's miserable and upset, but breaking up with him ... I don't get it. Give herself some time, some space, but ending it?!? Yeah, don't get it.

I was just shocked when I heard that come out of her mouth. Logan had to be thinking about how much she hated Madison when he hooked up with her? I couldn't believe she was actually serious! She was so completely out of line, and her comment 'what if he was actually trying [to hurt her]? I was ready to throw something at the TV.

I'm sorry, Veronica is not a hero or even a nice person. I don't care how many people she helps, she only seems to feel compassion for those she deems worthy of it. Apparently, Veronica has never hurt anyone or been forgiven for that hurt. She's just perfect and righteous.

What the fuck ever is right.
Arabian: One Angry Loganarabian on February 7th, 2007 04:41 am (UTC)
Yeah, what the fuck ever. I'm just so over cutting Rob Thomas ANY slack. Any at all.
Mia: Bitchslap (lowflyingicons)musing_mia on February 7th, 2007 04:02 am (UTC)
Thanks for the heads up about this ep. I can't be bothered with this show or its so-called heroine. It's all about Logan.

I won't even get into the mental gymnastics of the Madison roofie thing or the lovable Dick. It'll make my brain hurt.

Rob Thomas is an ass who's shat on the very fanbase that got him a 2nd season. After NitW, I realized he was never going to do the right thing by Logan or LoVe. Oh, well, he obviously doesn't need my viewership. Back to L&O:Criminal Intent.
Arabian: One Angry Loganarabian on February 7th, 2007 04:43 am (UTC)
Just sigh.
too much going on omg: ryan - srslydiamondrocker on February 7th, 2007 05:03 am (UTC)
Seriously, it sure seems like the ONLY point of the reunion was so that Veronica could be the dumper as opposed to the dumpee to restore Veronica's power position.

That's been my standpoint from the second they got back together. And it sucks, and can be considered heavily biased and border line retarded, among other things.

Yeah, I'm done.

Jason/Logan - I'll miss you. Veronica - not so much.
Arabian: Ryan/Taylor01arabian on February 8th, 2007 03:36 am (UTC)
I can't walk away, I love Jason/Logan and the chemistry between Jason and La Bell too much to walk away. I understand why you are, though.
too much going on omg: logan/dickdiamondrocker on February 8th, 2007 04:44 am (UTC)
I commend you for sticking with it. I wish I could, but when I find myself annoyed more than amused, then it's time to call it quits.
Jennifer Juniper: VM Veronica Drinkjules_411 on February 7th, 2007 05:24 am (UTC)
Of course, after Logan broke with Veronica he was thinking, what else can I do to her? Then in Aspen inspiration strikes after coming across Madison, I'm gonna have sex with her because that would absolutely destroy Veronica.

Oh, and Madison obviously intentionally drugged her because she apparently is pyschic and knew that Dick was trying to drug her.

Ugh, I don't know how I could get any more annoyed with Veronica. I wish the show had a different title because even the name annoys me right now. I think from now on I won't start watching until the show's half done so I can fast forward though all her scenes.
Arabian: Innocencearabian on February 8th, 2007 03:38 am (UTC)
Your post reminds me of Joss Wheden saying after dealing with SMG's attitude that he'd never name a show after a character again. I wonder if RT ever thinks that? If not, his fans surely do. Lord, how can he not see that he's making her one of the most unlikable characters on television!?!?!
(Anonymous) on February 7th, 2007 08:23 am (UTC)
Forgive me for responding anonymously but I don't have an LJ account. I've been reading your analyses on LoveShack ever since I started watching VM on dvd last spring and I've loved your chemistry breakdowns, especially for their optimism. Those season 2 episodes with just one LV encounter: you just always saw the potential for future encounters and, in season 2 at least, you ended up being right.

And then I found your LJ account and have been reading that religiously this season but this is the first time that I've absolutely had to comment. I'm totally with you on this episode and I had had such high hopes after last week's. Yes, I was spoiled and thought the Logan-is-the-bad-guy was the route they'd go but then last week it seemed as though they were going to highlight Veronica's judgmental-ness and her inability to get over it rather than his ill-thought-out (but totally in character and understandable) actions. I confess to being a Logan-lover but we’ve always been given reasons for understanding his actions (and then there's Dohring's acting); I don't see how season 3-judgmental-Veronica can possibly appeal to new viewers who have been given no reason for her bitchiness when it's even annoyed those of us who have watched the previous seasons and know she was raped, lost her best friend, was betrayed by her alcoholic mother, and had her friends turn against her. Oh do I miss ostracized Veronica from season 1.

And tonight's episode just totally confirmed my belief that RT has no idea about what feminism really is and his idea of "moral grayness" is to portray frat boys and anti-choice evangelicals as sympathetic while feminists come off as one-note fake and not-fake (i.e. Chip) rapists/force women to have abortions-ists. The whole retcon about Dick's lack of moral culpability for Veronica's rape is just the last straw. Regardless of the ambiguity (which I don’t buy anyway given the general agreement between Sean and Beaver's flashbacks vs. Dick's of the night of Shelley's party) of Dick's role in Veronica's rape, he was clearly willing to drug and have sex with an incapable of consenting Madison that night.

So, anyway, keep up the good work. I will keep watching but reluctantly so.
Arabian: Never Lonely Alonearabian on February 8th, 2007 03:41 am (UTC)
Oh, no problem. Thank you for taking the time to write such a lovely comment.

I wish I could offer some optimism right now to counteract all you write, but sadly I can't because I'm with 100%. I am just mind-boggled at how insanely insane Rob Thomas is and how horrifically he's destroying his own heroine. It just makes no sense whatsoever. It's sad. It really is.
språkspion: wonderfalls - evil anger of deathfalena84 on February 7th, 2007 05:56 pm (UTC)
You know how I try to keep loking on the bright side of things when it comes to VMars.


The Logan/Veronica break-up completely ruined the episode for me. I hated it, for the very same reasons you pointed out.

If RT wanted to keep L/V broken-up, he should have never reunited them last week. Because the reasons Logan had for breaking up with V actually made sense. I'm so mad. Urgh.

Anyway, the MOTW was pretty good. I would like this peisode, if only I could forget theL/V break-up and Logan's self-humiliation completely. Which, sadly, I can't.

Also, does this mean they're going to bring about the Veronica/Piz barf fest? Somebody shoot me now.
Arabian: TVarabian on February 8th, 2007 03:42 am (UTC)
Yes, yes, yes. If you want to be spoiled, because the answer to your last question is out there now, well I could tell you. But it's your choice.
Jbminor_or_a on February 9th, 2007 10:46 am (UTC)
Pretty much everything has been said, right? We're all just tired and depressed and disillusioned and bitter.

I hated what they did to them so much that I couldn't even squee that Johnny Kastl was in it..and fandom crossovers (kind of) would normally ellicit huge amounts of squeeing.
Arabian: Little Boy Bluearabian on February 9th, 2007 10:28 pm (UTC)
Yeah. The week before, hell, almost any episode before, I would have squeed seeing him. Sigh.