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18 April 2014 @ 06:40 am
5.18 - 'Resident Evil' (The Vampire Diaries)  
My Thursday night is complete again, a new Vampire Diaries is back in my life. Thank you, TV Gods.

AWESOME!!! Once again my faith in this show is rewarded. Seriously, this was a really, really awesome episode. I loved it!

In the last episode, Elena asked Damon to let her go, and he did. In this one, Damon asked Elena to let him go, and she did. And it was just as painful this time as it was last time, but in both scenes it shows growth, it showed respect and it showed that, yes, they do love each other very much and that they are still very much in love and that it is only a matter of time before they figure it out and realize that it's not that complicated. Messy, yes, complicated? No.

But the love is there and, yes, Elena, it's real. But the show has been telling us that for a very, very long time with these two. What they have, what is between them is real. And what is between Stefan and Elena is not. It's a fantasy, based on an ideal that can never be. When Stefan described their relationship, he described one that was more real than one they actually had because it certainly wasn't the one that the two shared. They never fought, but for once. When Stefan got upset with her for wanting to sacrifice herself, but he acquiesced quickly enough to her desire to want to do so and just let her walk to her death. Why? Because Stefan was always determined to play it safe; he didn't want to rock the boat and risk ruining his idealized fantasy (i.e., not reality, like oh, those "amazing" visions).

And there was no "we grew up" because they showed zero growth when together. Elena grew up… when she was apart from Stefan. And that is when, indeed, they grew apart because Elena grew up, because Elena stopped being that young, idealistic girl that Stefan could wrap in cotton and pretend was this perfect angel that Katherine was supposed to be. And when she was back around him, she actually regressed. So, amazing? No. A fantasy? Definitely.

And that was one of the key things we saw in this episode. That is all Stefan and Elena are, that's all they ever were… a fantasy, spun out of idealistic hopes and dreams and fairytale visions of a perfect unmessy, uncomplicated life that is simply impossible to ever have. On the other hand, every single moment with Damon and Elena was practically melting with the weight of the depth of their love and it's in your face realness.

Because with Damon, Elena can't pretend. Small talk, platitudes, friendship, something that they are not. They are in love. That is what they are and pretending anything else is not facing reality. And being with Damon, living with how he faces life—head-on, dealing with things, not running away, not burying his head is how Elena has begun to face life herself and so she's now finding herself at a crossroads. In herself, in how she chooses to live her life and to love. Does she deal, does she run? Does she pretend or does she face reality? She's getting there. She is taking baby steps. But she's not there yet.

maelj0714 and I had a discussion in my last episode thread where she hoped that my contention that Elena was ducking and burying her head in the sand at the end of the episode was wrong. Sadly, I nailed that one. Elena did not go away to evaluate her relationship with Damon, but rather was just running away instead of actually dealing. In so doing, she was essentially confirming the break-up because that is what Elena does, right now, at this stage in her life, that is still how Elena operates. But I remind myself, she's only 18. Damon is her first adult relationship. The first true love she's known. (I will never forget the fact that she told Stefan when she thought she was going to die—and possibly have to live forever, thus potentially have to be with him longer than a few years beyond her teenage years—that she didn't even know what love was.) However, I do see growth. Her conversation with Damon on the steps could have potentially led to a breakthrough with them had it not been for another vision popping up then.

She saw him in pain, she reached out to him. And instead of withdrawing, she went to him, and she put her confusion, and concern over the complications of their situation at bay, and she put him first. Elena concentrated on Damon. She made him focus on her, on her face, on her eyes, reminding him that the visions, the universe and its stupid game wasn't real, implying that the two of them, what they had, was real. They are real.

And, of course, she explicitly said the words later when she waited for him in his bedroom. It was there that we saw another positive sign of growth from her. There was the fact that Elena was able to see the difference between the falseness of that "amazing" fantasy versus the messy reality she has with Damon. A year ago, I don't know that Elena would have been able to make that distinction so easily, so quickly. But now she can and cannot only make it, she can verbalize it. This is good.

There were other good, make that great things about that final Damon/Elena scene. It seriously gutted me in ALL the right ways. Firstly, there is the fact that Damon will not just stand by and suffer while Elena holds him at arm's length just because she decides that she needs him. They played that game waaaaaaaaaay too long before and I'm glad that he's putting his foot down and not doing it any longer. She needs to know that as much as he loves her, he is in pain. How many times in this episode did he tell people to stop telling him about the Stefan/Elena stuff? How many different ways could he make it clear that he was in pain? That it was hurting him? And yet she goes into detail, she talks about her and Stefan being married, having kids, etc. And then she talks about wanting to be friends, telling him she needs him in her life as if that should be enough for him.

I love Elena Gilbert, but she has cut him out of her life, she has pushed him aside, she has made him dance to her tune for so long, intentionally or not (and, no, I do not think it was intentional, she is not that kind of person), but that's what it has been like. And Damon just can't take it anymore. So now she's going to see what it's like to not have him in her life not because he doesn't love her, but because it's too painful to not have all of her because he does love her so much. Because he's doing what she wants—he's doing the "right" thing. So she can't fault him. Painful, very, very painful, but one of those, man, it hurts so good moments.

Finally, also good about that scene—despite, again, how unbelievably painful it was—was that aforementioned recurring theme that Damon and Elena are real. The belief that you can't walk away when it's real was first introduced in the 8th episode of the very first season. True, it appeared to be about Stefan and Elena, but it was then tied to Damon and Elena in episode 11 of that same season, which was then tied to episode 14 and has continued to be applied to Damon and Elena over and over ever since, especially throughout season 04 and the whole sirebond saga.

So, yes, Elena may have asked Damon to let her go the episode before and he may have asked her this time and they both may have walked out, but neither truly have walked away. Because when it's real, you don't walk away. And with Damon and Elena, it's real.

Not so real? The whole doppelgangers are meant to be. So, I sorta called it! LOL! I mean, I thought it was that they were meant to not find a happy-ever-after because of the original sin committed, but I just knew that they were *not* meant to fall in love. And I was right there! Can I just say how absolutely hilarious I find it that the explanation was that a long-dead dude basically decided to make up a story to get people to bring something to him just like the whole moonstone curse thing all over again. And I loved how Markos told Damon. He was all like, 'yeah, uh, I just made the whole thing up, bro.' Hahahahahaha! Loved it so very, very, very, very much. And it does make perfect sense. Love is the strongest emotion. You want to bring two people together, promise them it's true love. It makes sense.

I must say I just love how the background of the witches and travelers has tied in with what Silas and Quetsiyah (I still miss you, you crazy, psychotic bitch you!) is being revealed. Like in previous seasons as we get near the end, it's all beginning to come full circle and everything is being tied together. So many viewers and critics underestimate this show and just take it episode by episode still not realizing (five freaking seasons in, geesh) that the entire season works as a whole and things do and *will* come together. And look at how beautifully they all are. I love IT! SO FREAKING MUCH!

Phew! OK, I'm just going into randoms now –

- Can I just say how happy I am that we are no longer getting stick-straight hair Elena? As the opening vision reminded me of. So happy.

- Alas, I must be a non-delusional shipper here. Caroline was not even remotely jealous of the Stefan/Elena visions and was all hopeful that Elena was going back to team!Stefan. *sigh*

- I may be a non-delusional shipper, but it doesn't stop me from adoring the little phone call between Stefan and Caroline. I loved how he was all, 'Caroline, I talk you down from your crazy, it's time to talk me down from my crazy!' So cute!!

- OMG! Not the Sheriff! Noooo!

- GRAMS! I wasn't expecting to see her or Vicki. Nice surprise there. The joy of no spoilers rocks my world again.

- Sorry, I do love Enzo, but he continues to be a shitty-ass friend to Damon. You don't continually bring up the girl in situations that your friend finds painful. He's just mean to Damon's heart. I mean, again, *how* many times did Damon tell him to STOP talking about the Stefan/Elena visions and yet Enzo kept being a dick about it and bringing it up? Ugh, so annoying. My poor Damon.

- Oh noes! Liz killed Matt! Wait, she has the passenger in her, that makes her supernatural, he's fine. Phew! (I know someone who's not happy about that, but I'm thrilled. My beloved Matty!)

- I love that Enzo doesn't care that Maggie will be old and withered now. He just wants to see her and say thank you. That just got me in the heart good.

- Candice Accola looked really, really pretty in this episode.

- Heh, I love Damon's reaction when he found out that Luke was Liv's twin, wondering if there is ever only one of something anymore. Hehehehe.

- I've been on record before in saying that I am not, never was, never will be a Vicki fan, but I always like when we get moments with Matt and Vicki. They get to me, I love how family always, *always* matters on this show. Five years later and the show still remembers. Seriously, how many shows do that? How many even so-called "great" serious, award-winning shows remember long-dead characters? This show doesn't forget. Even Jenna was name-dropped in this episode. The Vampire Diaries doesn't forget their dead; they don't forget the loved ones that have been lost along the way. Just because it's about vampires, witches and werewolves, those behind it have never forgotten that what makes this show so special is the relationships (and not just the romantic ones), but all of the relationships—the familial ones too, siblings, parents, friends, community, this town. Truly, one of the reasons that I love this show so much.

- The actor playing Markos, Raffi Barsoumian, is so good. I mean, it's pretty impressive when an unknown actor comes on and can steal screen attention away from Ian Somerhalder, but this guy managed to do it. Very impressive. I must say, fantastic casting this season (other than the obvious horridness-thank goodness she's gone!-Olga Fonda, fine, yeah and Shaun Sipos wasn't that hot either, but he was OK).

- If it hadn't been for the freak winter weather in Georgia causing the episode delay, the last episode and this one would have aired back to back therefore we would have gotten Elena's Damon fantasy episode right before this one without the three weeks in between which would have made the compare/contrast that much more obvious. The fact that Elena had that Damon fantasy and it was ALL her contrasting with these that were basically forced upon her. Yup. Damon/Elena=real. Stefan/Elena=forced.

- All the Stefan/Elena visions didn't bother me that much because again they weren't real and I honestly believe that fanbase got this because, frankly, it's all they can get since Stefan and Elena are (see next point) over. Dunzo. Period. Finished. Think of it... nothing this season "romantic" with Stefan and Elena has been real, none of it. It's been nostalgia, Katherine pretending to be Elena and now forced-upon-visions. None of it is real. Because they are done. Over.

- Stefan walking in and seeing Elena and saying "it's over" to Elena and her confirming it was just sweet, beautiful music because for me that was really it, you know? THAT was putting the complete and utter kibosh on the Stefan and Elena romantic relationship for good. And the parallel of this to their break-up in 4.06 ("We All Go a Little Mad Sometimes") was great. Both of them sitting down, looking ahead, but the feelings, the words, the finality was of a much more comfortable sort. They both talked in the past tense, they were both completely accepting of it this time, knew that it was over and that what they had was in the past. Now they are just friends. They love each other, but they love each other as just friends. They could even casually, easily without any tension talk about Damon. Just like friends, just like her and Matt do. Uh huh.

- I loved the final Bonnie and Jeremy scenes because of (a) Jeremy's joke, LOL! and (b) how this show keeps the realism as much as they can amidst the crazy supernatural chaos. Their discussion about Bonnie needing Jeremy to talk to her, keep the lines of communication open was fabulous. Jeremy bringing up Anna (something that happened in mid-season 03) and Bonnie showing her bad-ass maturity talking about her trusting him showed great continuity, trust in their viewers and great character writing... all in two lines of dialogue. I love this show.

- Did anyone else notice that big-ass mirror when Damon entered his bedroom? And where it was located? I've noticed that mirror before but never quite the placement, or not enough to realize that it appears to be placed opposite the bed, meaning that, well, to put it not too delicately... if some sexytiems were happening on that bed, the participants could be watching those sexytiems at play. If you get what I'm saying. Uh huh. Just wondering if anyone else noticed the mirror... and its placement is all.

- There was a part of me that thought/hoped that Elena was going to throw caution to the wind and kiss Damon after he said he didn't want to be friends. I mean, they were there in his bedroom, right in front of the bed, they clearly are madly in love and want to desperately rip each others clothes off, but.... it really wouldn't have been the right move, bad timing, etc. She needs to feel the absence from him in her life, I think, and she needs to actually fight for him, I think, in some way.

- One more final note about that final Damon/Elena scene... *sigh* my poor Elena, she was literally hugging herself as she walked out. Oh, Elena.

- I loved when Liz asked what happened after she finally woke up and Caroline was just like "You missed lunch" with that slightly teary laugh. Oh, Caroline.

- Whoah! I did NOT expect that ending. Tyler, Tyler, Tyler. All passenger'd up. So when exactly did that happen? I mean, clearly he was Tyler when he was stabbed and when he checked Liz (with that smart question about his mom) and then stabbed her. So when did it happen?* I guess we'll find out next week. And I wonder… any chance that this surprise ending will wind up leading to the death of Tyler? Pretty please? I mean they destroyed the last 'take out the passenger' knife so that leaves head-choppage, right? Although, to be honest, Tyler has been the most palatable and useful to me in the last couple of episodes and least worthy of being killed since season 02. Go figure, they might actually finally kill him now when I'm not as eager for him to die. Heh.

* Apparently, a Traveller came up behind him right after he stabbed Liz, so that must have been when it was done. But it was just super-quick. I saw it, but didn't make the connection.

- So what is going on on the Other Side now? Very interesting, I mean, even Kol is scared. And I can't help but wonder if one person can come over (Markos), does that mean that maybe just maybe one other person (erm, Ric) can manage to sneak back over? Pretty, pretty please?!?!? Before, of course, they manage to clean up this mess.

- This episode was so good that even Nate Buzolic's acting couldn't hurt it.

- Paul Wesley did a good job directing. I wouldn't say it was great, I mean there was nothing particularly outstanding, but all the performances were good, Buzolic wasn't as awful as usual and there was nothing that stood out glaringly bad, so for a first-time director... good job, Paul. Thumbs up.

OK, so as I said at the start, AWESOME episode. It replaces "The Devil Inside" as my favorite episode of the season. I LOVED it. So, so, so good. I thought it was fantastic, definitely up there with some of the best of the series. I can't wait for next week and I'm thrilled… no more reruns—straight through all the way to the finale. Yeah, baby!!
 
 
 
Bogwitch: TVD - Damon Won't Tellbogwitch on April 18th, 2014 11:25 am (UTC)
>>I know someone who's not happy about that, but I'm thrilled.

Oh I wonder who.
Arabian: Damon&Liz01arabian on April 18th, 2014 11:29 am (UTC)
Well, I wasn't gonna name names........ Hehehehehe, but yeah, totally, you.
Matt: Ghidorahghidorah15 on April 18th, 2014 03:04 pm (UTC)
HAH! Stefan and Elena, the great doppelganger love affair, really was all based on lies. Those forced fantasies just drove the point home (and yes, they contrasted strongly to Elena's entirely natural fantasies about her and Damon last episode). As you said, the relationship that Stefan described wasn't the relationship they had - and Markos (already a much better villain than Silas in his true form, I must say) openly, casually admitted that he'd made up the "destined soulmates" nonsense to draw the doppelgangers together for his own purposes. (Suck it, Qetsiyah.) To think that a guy can wield so much influence even when he's been stuck in the afterlife for fifteen hundred years... *shudder*

But yeah, if it's based on lies, it's not love. It's just a fantasy, no matter how amazing the participants believe it to be. Love is real, and Delena - sorry, Damon and Elena's relationship - is 100% real. I'm just waiting for them to realize that they're not bad for each other. In the meantime, however, Elena has to learn that with Damon, it's all or nothing. He knows no other way to love, nor should he - and she needs to take those steps into abandoning her old viewpoints for good and embracing the truth. I do think she'll get there.

For the record, I was scared for Liz too - good thing the Traveler's knife isn't poisoned or some such. Caroline's response when she woke up and asked what had happened was classic Caroline (though I really want her to snap out of her stupid Stefan/Elena bias). Tyler? I still want him dead. He's useless and annoying and remains an arrogant jerk at heart. And now that the knife has evidently been destroyed or just made powerless or whatever, he's that much less likely to survive being possessed by one of Markos' goons. Finally...

It was sad to see Vicki pulled away into the unknown, mostly because it hurt her brother so much; Kol begging him to save the Other Side was just weird to see, not remotely expected; Bonnie and Jeremy are (hopefully) keeping their relationship mature and honest; it was good to see Sheila Bennett again, as usual; I would love for Alaric to survive the collapse of the Other Side if they can't save it; and Paul Wesley acquitted himself well as a freshman director. Maybe that'll be his new career.

Sooo yeah - looking forward to what happens next!
Arabian: Elena09arabian on April 20th, 2014 03:44 am (UTC)
I agree 100% so hard with your first two paragraphs, I can't even begin to articulate it other than to give a big HELL YEAH!

For the record, I was scared for Liz too - good thing the Traveler's knife isn't poisoned or some such.

EEK! I know!!

Tyler? I still want him dead. He's useless and annoying and remains an arrogant jerk at heart. And now that the knife has evidently been destroyed or just made powerless or whatever, he's that much less likely to survive being possessed by one of Markos' goons. Finally...

We can dream! (Psst! I'm hoping reverse-psychology will work.)

I would love for Alaric to survive the collapse of the Other Side if they can't save it

Yes, please!

Sooo yeah - looking forward to what happens next!

Ditto!
Matt: Ghidorahghidorah15 on April 20th, 2014 05:08 am (UTC)
Wow...a "HELL YEAH"? Thank you very much. :D

Edited at 2014-04-20 05:08 am (UTC)
Arabian: Damon & Elena36arabian on April 20th, 2014 05:31 am (UTC)
Well, you really nailed it about both the Stefan/Elena and Damon/Elena situations in my opinion, so definitely HELL YEAH! :D
bangel_4e: delena2bangel_4e on April 18th, 2014 04:24 pm (UTC)
Ahahaha..I'm gonna start quoting this:

This episode was so good that even Nate Buzolic's acting couldn't hurt it.

I just rolled on the floor. Ahahah, my exact thought.


Ok, onto more serious matters...I absolutely, 100% LOVED this episode...so freaking much! Everything was great, especially (and always) Damon and Elena. Both so in character and so, so, so in love. It hurts so much (the last scene was freaking hard to sit through) but it's gonna be fine..I'm completely sure.
And I was expecting Damon not wanting to be her friend. It's so Damon. He's never gonna be the martyr and suffer being near her and being all friends. And as Stefan said..he and Elena can talk like that, without tension and stuff...cause theyr'e friends,. Her and Damon are in love.
Well, they're gonna realize their love is ok....sooner or later. In the meantime, I can't express how much I love that the show keeps repeating us that what they have is real and it's true.

The Stefan and Elena scenes were cute. I didn't feel bothered at all, I actually smiled. They were always the cute couple, but they never made me feel. And the I'll always love you (ya know, as friends) was so sweet. And you know, I find annoying that in English there's basically no different way to tell if the -I love you- is platonic (like parents to kids) or between lovers... except for -I'm in love with you-. In Italian, there's a clear distinction.
The only thing I didn't agree with the Stelena scene is the -we fought- part. Please, they had a mild discussion once and Stefan never took the risk of disagreeing with Elena, never dared tell her she was doing a stupid thing or viceversa. You can't grow up like that, she did that when was alone AND with Damon by her side.

I hope Tyler's gonna die by the end of this season, it will freaking amazing and it will open the road to Steroline. Speaking of, yeah I noticed Caroline wasn't jealous but I think it's because she wasn't that worried (knowing Elena's feelings for Damon) and she isn't in that place where she feels that jealous and insecure (Damon's place).
Arabian: Stefan & Caroline09arabian on April 20th, 2014 03:58 am (UTC)
Ahahaha..I'm gonna start quoting this:

This episode was so good that even Nate Buzolic's acting couldn't hurt it.

I just rolled on the floor. Ahahah, my exact thought.


Seriously, I was impressed that he didn't manage to bring the episode down despite the fact that he had to try and act beyond a smile and a sneer.

Ok, onto more serious matters...I absolutely, 100% LOVED this episode...so freaking much!

It was so good! I kept telling myself throughout it: THIS EPISODE IS SOOOO GOOD! Seriously, the best one of the season so far. EXCELLENT!

Everything was great, especially (and always) Damon and Elena. Both so in character and so, so, so in love. It hurts so much (the last scene was freaking hard to sit through) but it's gonna be fine..I'm completely sure.

Yup, yup, yup.

Well, they're gonna realize their love is ok....sooner or later. In the meantime, I can't express how much I love that the show keeps repeating us that what they have is real and it's true.

Me too.

The Stefan and Elena scenes were cute. I didn't feel bothered at all, I actually smiled.

I wouldn't go that far. I didn't smile, but yeah, they were cute and I wasn't bothered.

They were always the cute couple, but they never made me feel. And the I'll always love you (ya know, as friends) was so sweet.

And you know, I find annoying that in English there's basically no different way to tell if the -I love you- is platonic (like parents to kids) or between lovers... except for -I'm in love with you-. In Italian, there's a clear distinction.

Yeah, it IS annoying. Nice that other languaged have that and alas, we do not.

The only thing I didn't agree with the SE scene is the -we fought- part.

Well, again, that *was* Stefan saying that.

Please, they had a mild discussion once

No, it *was* legitimately a fight in "The Dinner Party." There were raised voices and anger. It was an actual fight, their only one, but it was an actual fight, singular.

Stefan never took the risk of disagreeing with Elena, never dared tell her she was doing a stupid thing or viceversa.

No, he did, he told her she was doing a stupid thing in that one fight. But then he went back on it and let her walk to her death, just let her go and literally, *literally*, walk to her death.

You can't grow up like that, she did that when was alone AND with Damon by her side.

Yup, yup, yup.

I hope Tyler's gonna die by the end of this season, it will freaking amazing and it will open the road to Steroline.

Yup! (I'm trying reverse psychology now with Tyler. Maybe that will work!) Me too.

Speaking of, yeah I noticed Caroline wasn't jealous but I think it's because she wasn't that worried (knowing Elena's feelings for Damon) and she isn't in that place where she feels that jealous and insecure (Damon's place).

Sadly, I think that she just doesn't realize she has *those* types of feelings for Stefan yet. She just doesn't see him that way yet. But it will happen. It will, dangit!
bangel_4e: delena1bangel_4e on April 20th, 2014 06:33 pm (UTC)
Uh, I really didn't remember their fight in TDP. Nice to be remembered they fought at least once.
Gosh, it's been SO long since I've done a TVD rewatch.

Edited at 2014-04-20 06:33 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Damon&Stefan04arabian on April 20th, 2014 10:36 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I'm kinda a walking encyclopedia about this show, I do admit that freely, LOL! I need to rewatch seasons 3-4 AND 5 now. I rewatch episodes and scenes (when I do gifs and stuff) all the time, but I haven't rewatched those scenes yet. Ugh!
bangel_4e: delena1bangel_4e on April 21st, 2014 10:51 am (UTC)
I understand you, I feel that way about Dawson's Creek :)
Arabian: What's not to Love? (Logan)arabian on April 21st, 2014 10:56 am (UTC)
Ah, I missed that in my youth, just recently watched it and it was OK, but I think it had to be a 'get 'em while they're young' thing, LOL! I do love my Pacey though. :D
bangel_4e: leobangel_4e on April 21st, 2014 11:35 am (UTC)
Oh, it's a show that wouldn't get a viewer now (there are no great shocks and suspense, it's just life as it is). It is absolutely great cause, together with, Beverly Hills, launched the teen drama and basically, I grew up with it and much of who I am (sad as it sounds) I owe it to DC. But I get why people don't really like or they don't have a strong opinion it if they're watching it now...that's normal.
I still think it's amazing and yeah, Pacey is awesome <3

Edited at 2014-04-21 11:36 am (UTC)
Arabian: TVarabian on April 21st, 2014 01:11 pm (UTC)
I don't think it's that, I mean, a show doesn't need shock or suspense to be great, for me it's just that Joshua Jackson and Michelle Williams were the only great/likable actors and/or characters in the cast. I do think that James Van DerBeek is a good actor, but Dawson was a TERRIBLE character. And I personally cannot stand Katie Holmes. Joey was great, but I liked Joey and Pacey despite how much I loathe Katie Holmes. If DC wasn't a good show, I wouldn't have been able to watch 7 seasons worth. (Oh, and I LOVED the grandmother!) (Now 90210, I don't think that was a good show, sorry.)
bangel_4e: delena1bangel_4e on April 21st, 2014 03:26 pm (UTC)
Oh, I actually think that nowadays, a show needs suspense and frequent plot twists or something peculiar to have a success. Back then, Dawson's Creek was simply (but greatly) six seasons of life. It wouldn't have the same success now.
Of course it's a good show :) It's my favorite show and I think it's the greatest (but I'm biased lol).
And I adore Katie Holmes as Joey...and all the other characters.Yep, Dawson wasn't great and I always complain a lot about him but I still like him in the end.
And I didn't really like 90210, I watched random episodes when I was little but you can't deny that it was a milestone in the teen drama..along with DC.
Grams was amazing and her relationship with Jen was so beautiful..one of the best things of the show..along with Pacey and Joey of course.
Arabian: TVarabian on April 21st, 2014 11:06 pm (UTC)
A success maybe, but not to be great. Parks and Rec doesn't have suspense or frequent plot twists, The Good Wife (generally) doesn't have those, Elementary doesn't often. Great TV needs great writing, great characters and great direction. That is it. Suspense and plot twists is just one genre. Just because they pop up now and then in shows doesn't make a show, all fiction will have them, but if that's the foundation of a television show then it's a fail because it has no substance.
bangel_4e: delena3bangel_4e on April 21st, 2014 11:40 pm (UTC)
Yes, I wanna be clear I'm strictly talking about success, ratings, people watching etc.I never talked about greatness, I don't define the greatness of a show on that (I think many great tv shows got cancelled but that doesn't mean they're not good). I'm mainly talking about popularity and success. I agree shows need great writing, characters and direction..absolutely. But those shows you mentioned have something..I don't know if I can properly explain this.. peculiar about them. There's a thing that sets them apart and it works. Dawson's Creek had so many good aspects but what set the show apart years ago wouldn't set it apart now...and people wouldn't like and wouldn't watch it as they watch and love these shows now.
Yes, every show has plots and stuff and they don't build a show entirely on that, but it's a big part of most shows and while some don't generally have those..they have to be peculiar, particular, different..they gotta have something captivating that keeps people glued to their seats (or to so speak). I'd still watch Dawson's Creek now, but I'm pretty sure that DC aired now for the first time it would be cancelled (of course, a modern version of it).


Edited at 2014-04-21 11:43 pm (UTC)
Arabian: TVarabian on April 22nd, 2014 12:50 pm (UTC)
I just don't think that's the case. The Big Bang Theory is the number one show and it doesn't have twists and suspense, neither does NCIS (other than regular sweeps cliffhangers), or any other shows of that ilk. Game of Thrones (other than occasional huge shockers) doesn't have twists regularly and it's incredibly popular. Pretty much every sitcom (successful or otherwise) doesn't rely on those. Grey's Anatomy -- again, except for regular sweeps cliffhangers -- doesn't do it.

I don't watch it, but based on everything I've heard Parenthood is an adult type version of what DC was like. And that show does fairly well. TGW isn't knocking 'em dead in terms of the 18-49 crowd, but it does do well HH ratings and for the most part, it's just a solid drama. No, teen dramas aren't like DC anymore, I agree, but that just because things go in cycles and the cycle right now is geared more towards a supernatural bent and with supernatual comes suspense.
bangel_4e: delena2bangel_4e on April 22nd, 2014 12:59 pm (UTC)
Yes, but I said that if they don't have twists, they gotta have something peculiar and different and original. And all those shows have it (besides great characters and writing).
Actually, about GOT, I've never seen it but people recommended it to me saying it has twists and shocks and they love i for this lol

I watch Parenthood and while it has drama (adult and teen but mostly adult) it's nowhere near Dawson's Creek. The editing and the style of the show (and by this I mean conversations, style of writing, themes) are very different. It's doing fairly well, yes. The one thing that they have in common with DC is that they aim at the heart. It's a family and love show.

Yep, the cycle is definitely onto something else right now..and that's also why DC wouldn't have the same success now. That's just what I think :)
Arabian: Alaric01arabian on April 22nd, 2014 10:49 pm (UTC)
I watch GoT, people may love the shocks, but they only come now and then, overall, the show is just a dark drama. My point is that whatever kind of show it was, DC was JUST a drama. Whatever kind of show GoT is, or Parenthood is or TGW, they are JUST dramas. They aren't suspense shows. That's my point. You don't need to have suspense and regular shocking plot twists to be successful, or be peculiar, different and original. TV is TV. Is there a show like DC on the air right now, no, but that doesn't mean that a show like DC couldn't succeed. There just isn't one on the air right now. As slow moving as DC, probably not, but of the same type, it's possible.

That's just where we disagree. You never know what's going to connect with viewers, you just never know.
bangel_4e: elena3bangel_4e on April 22nd, 2014 10:55 pm (UTC)
I actually don't agree. I don't think they are just dramas, the shows you mentioned.

No, you don't need twists and suspense to be original and different. That's why I said that GoT and Parenthood don't have those, but they have something else peculiar about them. DC wouldn't have the same thing now.

And I still think that DC wouldn't have a success now. As you said, you can never know, that's right...but til I'm proven wrong, this is my opinion.
Arabian: TVarabian on April 23rd, 2014 12:15 am (UTC)
Well, like I said, we don't agree because I don't think there's anything peculiar about these shows. And the sitcoms (especially TBBT) are very popular and there is nothing original or "peculiar" about them. We'll just agree to disagree on this.
bangel_4e: delena1bangel_4e on April 23rd, 2014 12:32 am (UTC)
Yep, we will have to :)
(Oh, I think the whole original concept of TBBT was the key to its success but I guess we'll never agree on this as well lol)

Edited at 2014-04-23 12:34 am (UTC)
Arabian: TVarabian on April 23rd, 2014 01:17 am (UTC)
No, we don't agree. There are dramas, sitcoms, fantasies, etc. It's just TV. Success is determined by good TV, not suspense or peculiarity or even originality. Something can be original and still suck. (Take Cop Rock, that was original and it sucked. Or the TV show based on the Geico Caveman commercials. Original? Yes. Sucked and a failure? Yes.) Something can be classic and hit a home run. It just depends on what manages to strike a chord. It's always been that way; it always will be that way. That's just how it is.
bangel_4e: elena1bangel_4e on April 23rd, 2014 02:00 am (UTC)
Once again, I'm not talking about GOOD tv. I'm talking about what's popular. And many bad shows are popular.
Apparently, I'm not making myself clear because you keep saying good tv and great tv etc is not made by suspense or originality. I'm not saying that. That's why I agree the a show can be original and suck.
I simply said that in this time of tv, DC wouldn't be popular because it wouldn't appeal to people (this is my personal opinion). I'm not saying it wouldn't be great because it isn't made of twists and suspense and I'm not saying that only shows with twists and suspense are great or have a success. I'm simply saying that you need something more now to be a popular show, with great ratings.

It just depends on what manages to strike a chord. It's always been that way; it always will be that way. That's just how it is.
Well, I don't fully agree, once again. Sometimes it's more than stricking a chord. And I don't believe in absolutes, sorry.

Edited at 2014-04-23 02:10 am (UTC)
Arabian: Alaric01arabian on April 23rd, 2014 02:17 am (UTC)
I said success at the top meaning popular. And I said the Geico show was a failure as in not successful as in not popular. I know what you're saying and I don't agree with you. I also don't agree that DC wouldn't succeed nowadays. We just do not agree on this.

We're going in circles. We just have to agree to disagree, we are clearly not going to agree on this.
bangel_4e: elena3bangel_4e on April 23rd, 2014 09:42 am (UTC)
Yes, I got that about Geico :)

We're going in circles.
I was thinking the exact same thing, we'll never agree :)


Edited at 2014-04-23 09:43 am (UTC)
Arabian: Damon04arabian on April 23rd, 2014 10:28 am (UTC)
Yup. :)
dancing till the world ends: tvd: caroline is my herolynnenne on April 18th, 2014 06:47 pm (UTC)
I actually enjoyed final Stefan/Elena scene. It felt like a nice close to their relationship, and finally (finally!) leaves Stefan in a place to where he's convincingly open to new loves. Like, maybe, Caroline. :)

But of course, I loved all the Delena stuff.

I didn't realize that Paul Wesley had directed! Good for him.
Arabian: Stefan01arabian on April 20th, 2014 04:00 am (UTC)
I actually enjoyed final Stefan/Elena scene. It felt like a nice close to their relationship, and finally (finally!) leaves Stefan in a place to where he's convincingly open to new loves. Like, maybe, Caroline. :)

I think most (sane) Damon/Elena fans enjoyed that final S/E scene for the exact same reason. It did provide beautiful closure to Stefan and Elena's romantic relationship.

I didn't realize that Paul Wesley had directed! Good for him.

Yes, he did!
jairem08: pic#122702267jairem08 on April 18th, 2014 07:11 pm (UTC)
Thank you for your write up as always.

I only ever try to watch the episode once you posted and check if it is safe to watch - that is how much this show rules my heart. I'm always worried. The moment I read the first 2 sentences I was relieved and watched.

Overall agree with all your views. Wasn't that bothered with SE though gagged few times just in case - you know I had to, because it is so not real and they just don't mesh. Like ever.

Loved DE scenes. Even the last heart-breaking scene was beautiful. And I'm really positive. SE are done and DE will be again if that is not more obvious. But I expect more heartbreak and angst.

Damon is just so heartbroken. And always so handsome. How can he not be here next to me!!!!

Nice bull about the universe/doppelganger theory - yep all fake. Hurray to DE!!!!

The afterlife is threatened. If Kol is scared this means something crazy is happening. This is going to be still very interesting storyline.

Yes and I also wish for Ric to pop back in the real life - please???

Liked Enzo this episode though he was trying to annoy Damon with Elena too much. Wonder if her ever meets his girl again.

And DE are so in love it hurts ... Sigh

Need to go and re watch soon


Arabian: Damon & Elena32arabian on April 20th, 2014 03:50 am (UTC)
Thank you for your write up as always.

You're welcome. :)

I only ever try to watch the episode once you posted and check if it is safe to watch

Uhm, well, I can make it real easy for you in the future if that's your guide then. The show is always safe to watch. Can you honestly remember the last episode that I wasn't "WHEE!! I love this show!! It's so awesome!" Even when it has S/E stuff or seemingly depressing D/E stuff, I see positives there, LOL! So if I'm your barometer for 'is it safe to watch?' the answer is always going to be YES!!!

Loved DE scenes. Even the last heart-breaking scene was beautiful. And I'm really positive. SE are done and DE will be again if that is not more obvious. But I expect more heartbreak and angst.

Agreed; Elena and Damon both need to get to a better, more secure place with one another, but the love is there and REAL! WHEE!!!

The afterlife is threatened. If Kol is scared this means something crazy is happening. This is going to be still very interesting storyline.

Yes, indeed.

Yes and I also wish for Ric to pop back in the real life - please???

Eternally, always, PLEASE!!!!

Liked Enzo this episode though he was trying to annoy Damon with Elena too much. Wonder if her ever meets his girl again.

Looks like we find out some info in the next episode, hmmmmmm........
tj2013: pic#120865641tj2013 on April 20th, 2014 01:23 pm (UTC)

AWESOME!!! Once again my faith in this show is rewarded. Seriously, this was a really, really awesome episode. I loved it!


Yes, yes, yes! I loved every minute of it. Can't really add anything to your analysis, which was great to read, as always.

Loved the DE-scenes, liked the SE-stuff (they underlined it with one of the typical season 1 scores and I love that), loved all the name dropping, glad that Liz appeared again.
Yeah, maybe, when the other side goes down - can Alaric please come back? Or does Matt Davis has another project he is working on? Do you happen to know that?
Arabian: Alaric01arabian on April 20th, 2014 10:40 pm (UTC)
Other than a recurring role (well, 3 episodes) on CSI that I know nothing about, it doesn't look like he has anything going on, so I suppose there's always hope. I kinda expect we will see Alaric at some point towards the end of the season, but who knows if it will actually happen and what it will mean? I mean, they might actually wind up actually killing Matt JUST to send him there to find out some answers.
MaelJ0714: lipsmaelj0714 on April 21st, 2014 10:40 pm (UTC)
Yep, you called it. GAH!! I mean, good on you but regarding Elena, just..... GAH!!

Actually, I did enjoy the Elena scenes in this episode for all those reasons you beautifully articulated in your post. I liked how reluctant she was to ask Damon for help with yet another Doppleganger-bonding issue -- knowing how much it would hurt him -- and how insistent she was that the visions were not sex dreams. Her concern for him on the back step of the manor. Admitting that what she and Damon had was messy but at least real.

But what happened to the strong, stubborn girl that fought so relentlessly for Stefan in season 3? It was disappointing to see her so spineless when confronted by Damon, giving up and caving in so quickly when he told her he didn't want to see her again. ("If that's what you want...") Geesh, girl. Who could let that fine hunk of a man go so easily? :-D

Thank you for your positive take on Elena's current mindset, however, particularly regarding her being at a crossroads right now. I can only hope that maybe Season 6 will be another character journey for Elena and which road she'll decide to take? Wait...no, I'll leave the speculating to you, and just enjoy the show and your reviews. ;-)

The ending scene with Elena and Stefan was very sweet but I don't buy at all Stefan's statement that you can't be friends and be in love. I hope that Caroline will disprove that theory!

Whatever is happening on the other side looks very interesting. It was great seeing some 'old' faces. Alaric, please? Excited to see what happens there.

As always, enjoyed your write-up!
Arabian: Damon12arabian on April 23rd, 2014 09:26 am (UTC)
Yep, you called it. GAH!! I mean, good on you but regarding Elena, just..... GAH!!

Sorry, I just figured that the way Elena is if she was going to deal with it, she would have stayed with Damon, not run away.

Actually, I did enjoy the Elena scenes in this episode for all those reasons you beautifully articulated in your post.

I agree, I do, I just wish she hadn't been so detailed in describing the visions in that last scene. He didn't know they were married, had kids, etc. I mean, Damon made it so clear he didn't want to know, the details weren't necessary, ugh. My poor, Damon.

But what happened to the strong, stubborn girl that fought so relentlessly for Stefan in season 3?

She was fighting for more than just Stefan. She was fighting for the fantasy that Stefan represented, that girl that she was when her parents were alive. That is what Stefan represented, that girl, living that life. Stefan wasn't just a boy she loved, Stefan was her youth, her innocence, her carefree high school existence. THAT is what she was fighting for.

Fighting for Damon, for their relationship is fighting for a darker life, a darker future where she has to accept that she lives in a world of gray to sometimes near-black, in a world where the choice is to kill or be killed, in a world where the man she loves kills people and she loves him more than she loves her moral belief that such a thing is wrong because he's a monster, because *she's* a monster, because all of her friends are monsters in the moral universe she lived in and accepted before because in the life she lived in before was just a fantasy construct that was built on lies that sugarcoated this dark reality. She was always the doppelganger; there were always vampires. Her father always tortured what she now is. Stefan always killed. And THAT is her fight now... to accept not just that messy, complicated relationship with Damon but that messy, complicated reality that is her life.

It was disappointing to see her so spineless when confronted by Damon, giving up and caving in so quickly when he told her he didn't want to see her again.

Because it's so much easier. It's hard to find the strength so much. So much easier to bend when you're afraid that you will break.

("If that's what you want...") Geesh, girl.

Because in her entire life all she's had to do was leave that door open and it's NEVER what they want, they always stay in her life, accepting her terms. Why would she expect that Damon wouldn't this time? Why would she think that this time Damon would put his foot down?

Thank you for your positive take on Elena's current mindset, however, particularly regarding her being at a crossroads right now. I can only hope that maybe Season 6 will be another character journey for Elena and which road she'll decide to take? Wait...no, I'll leave the speculating to you, and just enjoy the show and your reviews. ;-)

LOL! Actually, I think we'll hit that crossroads before the close of season 05 with season 06 finally, truly exploring Damon and Elena as a couple without Stefan in the mix. I could be wrong, the next couple of episodes should give us an indication.

The ending scene with Elena and Stefan was very sweet but I don't buy at all Stefan's statement that you can't be friends and be in love. I hope that Caroline will disprove that theory!

Agreed; but THAT is Stefan's belief system (and actually ties totally into something that I wrote in my long-ass fic that I had Rebekah flat-out tell Stefan: “You know what your problem is?” Rebekah asked, ignoring his abrupt stop. “Never mind, don’t answer. I’ll tell you.” Sitting up straight, she met his gaze. “You think that a man can’t be friends with his lover and a lover with his friend.” (Man, I know these characters, LOL! I wrote that, all plotted out before season 04 began! Hah!)

Whatever is happening on the other side looks very interesting. It was great seeing some 'old' faces. Alaric, please? Excited to see what happens there.

Yes, yes, yes!!!

As always, enjoyed your write-up!

Thank you. :)

Edited at 2014-04-23 09:27 am (UTC)
MaelJ0714: lipsmaelj0714 on April 24th, 2014 03:57 pm (UTC)
Sorry I meant for this to be a reply...

This…. She was fighting for more than just Stefan. To this…. Why would she think that this time Damon would put his foot down? All of it actually… is why I love your LJ so much. (No. It’s not weird. Really.) :)

Seriously, based on what we’ve seen from the show, it all makes sense. I can’t disagree with a word of it.

I just wish she hadn't been so detailed in describing the visions in that last scene. He didn't know they were married, had kids, etc. I mean, Damon made it so clear he didn't want to know, the details weren't necessary, ugh. My poor, Damon.

Same here. She didn’t have to go into such detail about it. And I love how you pointed out how often he told them he didn’t want to hear it. Damon has gotten much better about letting others know when something is bothering him, hasn’t he? Even Caroline was reluctant to go to him for help and seemed sensitive to his feelings about it.

As far as Elena, with her comment "but you need to know", I wonder (yes, I know, I’m asking for it – LOL!) if that didn’t go back to her asking Stefan if she and Damon would ever be able to talk like they could. That struck me as so odd because it was Elena and Damon who were honest with each other, even in Season 1. It was only after they became a couple that they stopped communicating. You talked about this a lot in one of your reviews. Maybe she’s beginning to see this lack of communication? She wants to talk to him but feels she can’t because of how he lashes out when he gets hurt. And she can hurt him like no other. I loved how in this scene she was opening up to him (just in a little too much detail), until he reminded her they were bad for each other. Then her face fell and she nodded and MAELJ0714 said, “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!” :-D

I think we'll hit that crossroads before the close of season 05 with season 06 finally, truly exploring Damon and Elena as a couple without Stefan in the mix. I could be wrong, the next couple of episodes should give us an indication.

Ohhhhhh, I so hope you are right and we don’t have to wait until Season 6!!

Know this is a bit off topic but can I say how much I loved the vision scenes? Nina and Paul did such a great job jumping right back into their season 1 characters. And I loved how the visions showed Elena that she would have had a very good life with Stefan. Maybe not ‘amazing’ but very good. They had everything they wanted. A middle-class family with the typical drama that comes with kids and in-laws. A house with the white picket fence. The perfectly normal, ordinary human life. A life for them that could never be reality. (And was it even what they really *wanted* or just a desire implanted by Markos’ spell?)

All of those things that Damon is not – ordinary, typical, normal, middle-of-the-road. Rose said that he was either the best or the worst for Elena. I tend to think he is both. The ends of the spectrum. As one of your posters said, all or nothing. Yes, her life with Stefan would be good but with Damon, she’ll experience her greatest joys and deepest sorrows. All-consuming love, passion, adventure, excitement, tragedy, sorrow, horror, but never mediocrity. Never the average. I loved that he couldn’t be just friends. He wants all of her or none of her and nothing in between. That is so Damon and it is SOOO GOOD.

Agreed; but THAT is Stefan's belief system (and actually ties totally into something that I wrote in my long-ass fic that I had Rebekah flat-out tell Stefan:...

Oh, my gosh! I don’t normally read fanfic but I may have to check that ‘long-ass fic’ out!! LOL!!

Man, I know these characters, LOL!

You really do! :-D

Edited at 2014-04-24 04:11 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Stefan04arabian on April 27th, 2014 05:41 am (UTC)
PART I

Sorry I meant for this to be a reply...

It's OK, it happens. :)

This…. She was fighting for more than just Stefan. To this…. Why would she think that this time Damon would put his foot down? All of it actually… is why I love your LJ so much. (No. It’s not weird. Really.) :)

Aww, thanks. :) And this is why I wish more people would respond because I get responses and it brings out deep thinky-thoughts like this from me which gives me deeper thinking into the characters and show and gives me a deeper appreciation too! So thank you! :)

Same here. She didn’t have to go into such detail about it. And I love how you pointed out how often he told them he didn’t want to hear it. Damon has gotten much better about letting others know when something is bothering him, hasn’t he? Even Caroline was reluctant to go to him for help and seemed sensitive to his feelings about it.

He really has, he just needs to stop being just a dick to everyone, LOL! I kinda realized that tonight. I responded to someone else who said this about the new episode: "Damon is such a feelings guy. And if no one can see it..."

---Well, to be fair, up until this scene with Stefan, it's been Elena, Alaric, on a few occasions, Rose, Liz, and Enzo are the only ones he ever actually shows his feelings to. To everyone else he acts like a dick and threatens to main and kill them. Again, I love the guy, but we, the audience, see a different Damon than most of the characters. Damon insults them, he puts them down, he threatens to kill them, to hurt them, and treats them like they are morons. Elena is the only one he shows his heart to on a regular basis. That's it. Even Stefan he's mostly an ass too. He's had a few nice moments with each of them, but for the most part, he's not particularly nice to any of them.----

Because, yeah, it's true. Damon really is rather a jerk to most of them. Oh, Damon.

As far as Elena, with her comment "but you need to know", I wonder (yes, I know, I’m asking for it – LOL!) if that didn’t go back to her asking Stefan if she and Damon would ever be able to talk like they could.

Oh, I'm sure you're right there. She was trying to push it. Trying to rush into reverting to that honesty and telling everything, because she's so young and like I said before she's always gotten what she wants from these boys in relationships. But Damon isn't a boy. And he's had her now, he's not going to settle for anything but all of her now. She's got to grow up and realize that. It's time for her wake-up call.

That struck me as so odd because it was Elena and Damon who were honest with each other, even in Season 1. It was only after they became a couple that they stopped communicating. You talked about this a lot in one of your reviews. Maybe she’s beginning to see this lack of communication? She wants to talk to him but feels she can’t because of how he lashes out when he gets hurt. And she can hurt him like no other. I loved how in this scene she was opening up to him (just in a little too much detail), until he reminded her they were bad for each other. Then her face fell and she nodded and MAELJ0714 said, “NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!” :-D

It's a process. That's all I can say is that it's a process. They do need to communicate, but Elena is trying to communicate as a girl with a friend. She needs to communicate as a woman with her man. There is a big difference there. Damon was communicating before as a man with a girl. Now he is refusing to communicate period. He needs to communicate as a man with his woman. Clearly they are not on the same page communication-wise. Communication is great, but it doesn't work if you're speaking a different language.

Ohhhhhh, I so hope you are right and we don’t have to wait until Season 6!!

Me too. But I've been wrong before, timing-wise. I was right about Stefan/Elena in season 03 and what would happen with them. But it didn't happen at the end of season 03, it happened at the beginning of season 04. So don't hold me to it timing-wise. :)

(cont)
Arabian: Damon06arabian on April 27th, 2014 05:42 am (UTC)
PART II

And I loved how the visions showed Elena that she would have had a very good life with Stefan.

Now this I disagree with this because they were not real. They were literally snippets of a life, like Leave it to Beaver. They weren't real. Thre was not wrangling over bills, fighting over late nights, or what to do about kids, or his brother or her brother, or a million other fights that happen between couples. It was the highlights reel of a romantic movie. It was NOT reality.

A middle-class family with the typical drama that comes with kids and in-laws. A house with the white picket fence. The perfectly normal, ordinary human life.

But it wasn't ordinary. Nothing we saw with them, other than Elena rolling her eyes over player Damon showed anything other than a "perfect" life. There was nothing in their life as depicted in those visions that wasn't PERFECT. And real life isn't perfect. That's not reality. So, I don't agree. They could never have that life. It would never be real. It could literally never happen. Ever. It was completely a fake construct.

All of those things that Damon is not – ordinary, typical, normal, middle-of-the-road.

But everything we saw in there, we've seen those moments with Damon and Elena. Damon could have been in EVERY ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS and he wouldn't have been out of place, because him and Elena have had moments like that just like Stefan and Elena have. They were romantic highlight reels. That's all they were. There was nothing real about them. Not ordinary, not typical, not normal. Damon and Elena in the bathroom, her in the bath, him in his towel, that's normal. Damon meeting her at school, while she writes in her journal, that's normal. Damon and Elena kissing goodbye as he sees her off to school. Damon and Elena cuddling on the couch. Normal. Damon and Elena having a drink after the dance. Damon could have been placed in those visions just like Stefan because Stefan is no more ordinary, typical, middle of the road than is Damon. He's a vampire, he's a ripper, he's a monster/murderer/involved in all the crazy-chaos too.

* I just remembered -- remember when we saw Damon and Elena in Katherine's created fantasy of them playing pool? It's the same thing. Damon and Elena can just be as normal and picture-perfect seeming as Stefan and Elena in fantasy land.

Rose said that he was either the best or the worst for Elena.

Because of their mad, passionate love for each other. That has nothing to do with Damon or Stefan and their ordinariness or lack thereof. Damon and Elena are just it for each other. That is what that is about.

Yes, her life with Stefan

And it would be good with Matt, or Aaron, or Jesse or any number of good guys. Sorry, I just really, really disagree that those visions showed anything OTHER than a Traveller-created fantasy. That's all it was. That's what Markos flat-out said. He created it. It wasn't real.

Oh, my gosh! I don’t normally read fanfic but I may have to check that ‘long-ass fic’ out!! LOL!!

Well, that's my only-super long fic. I have another one that's about 5,000 words, but most of mine (I have a few more) are short-ish. You can find a list of all my fics on the side-bar TVD link with all my other TVD posts.

Edited at 2014-04-27 05:45 am (UTC)
MaelJ0714: lipsmaelj0714 on April 30th, 2014 09:29 pm (UTC)
I was afraid after I posted this that I wasn’t clear. Since it takes so long for me to reply, you would think I could write what I mean! :-D

I didn’t mean that that the life in the visions could have been reality. No, you are right -- the ‘amazing’ life shown here was complete fantasy. This was totally “Leave It to Beaver” – in-laws, kids, beautiful house with the white picket fence, the kind of ‘drama’ they could just shake their heads and laugh at. Now, I do think the visions showed Elena and Stefan would’ve had a good life together had they been human because they want so many of the same things. But Elena said about the visions that “they had everything they wanted.” That life that could never be reality. Stefan and Elena aren’t human. And even if they were, this wasn’t typical life, even for regular-a** humans. Who has everything they ever want? No one. It was manufactured, right down to the soft, golden light.

It was really the contrast to these scenes I liked – Stefan vs. Damon, fantasy vs. reality, human vs. vampire, ordinary vs. adventure. This was the perfect ‘normal’ life she and Stefan always wanted, particularly in season 1 and 2, compared to the (recent) drama of her life with Damon.

Yes, Damon could have been in any of these scenes, and we have seen him doing very ordinary things like you mentioned. But I don’t see him *wanting* something as mundane as this. Even the perfect human life. He loves being a vampire and all the ups and downs and craziness that comes with it.

I did very much like the fact you pointed out that in reality, Stefan is anything but middle of the road. No, he isn’t normal or ordinary but he wants very much to be.

The thing is, was this fantasy life *actually* something they wanted or just a desire implanted by Markos? And that’s what made the ending scene between Stefan and Elena so sad. They realized that EVERYTHING was a lie. Not just the fantasy life but what they wanted in life as well. To know that what you thought were your dreams and desires for life weren’t even yours. So… is Damon right about what Elena *really* wants – passion, adventure and even a little danger?

I suppose that is what I meant about the ‘good’ life Elena could have had with Stefan (fantasy) vs. the best and worst that comes with Damon (reality). You may still not agree, though, and that is okay. :-)

Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out!!


Edited at 2014-04-30 09:34 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Damon & Elena06arabian on April 30th, 2014 09:57 pm (UTC)
I see what you mean, and I do agree.

So… is Damon right about what Elena *really* wants – passion, adventure and even a little danger?

Yes, Damon is right. And also, remember, Damon said that to an Elena who had never experienced ANY of that. That was pre-crazy supernatural chaos world Elena. I don't think Elena could ever settle for a normal ordinary life now that she's lived this life now honestly. She is more like Damon than she is like Stefan, so yeah, Damon is right.
MaelJ0714: lipsmaelj0714 on April 30th, 2014 10:16 pm (UTC)
I'm busy reading on your other page but....

;-D (Damon does that so much better!)

Thanks for replying!!
Florencia: TVD (All Is Well in Mystic Falls)florencia7 on May 14th, 2014 11:32 am (UTC)
”Elena grew up… when she was apart from Stefan.” - And it seems to be the same way with Stefan. Now that they're not together (and Stefan is OK with that, past all the sire bond, etc. excuses), he seems, IDK, calmer and more mature. Maybe it's just me, but I feel like his general, overall demeanor changed for the better.

”That is all Stefan and Elena are, that's all they ever were… a fantasy, spun out of idealistic hopes and dreams and fairytale visions of a perfect unmessy, uncomplicated life that is simply impossible to ever have. ” - At first I was unhappily confused as to why we needed this whole hallucinations thing, but then it became clear and I think it was quite a brilliant idea. It was one of those moments (like when Stefan was erasing blood stains from Katherine's memories) showcasing that the writers know exactly what they're doing and that they really are completely aware of the characters' vices and virtues despite sometimes troubling appearances. Those hallucinations showed what Stefan and Elena used to think they might have and might have had if it wasn't for the supernatural complications. But the truth is, that even without such complications, life is never that easy. And only now they are both at the stage when they can get that and don't despair over that.

One little thing concerning the hallucinations: when in one of them Stefan mentions Damon bringing home a girl: what did you make of fantasy!Elena's reaction? There is that brief look on her face that seems to suggest that even in that picture-perfect SE vision there was something going on between Damon & Elena, which would be a lovely touch if that's what it was.

”Stefan walking in and seeing Elena and saying "it's over" to Elena and her confirming it was just sweet, beautiful music because for me that was really it, you know? THAT was putting the complete and utter kibosh on the Stefan and Elena romantic relationship for good.” - I loved that moment too. It was poignant & beautifully done.

”So what is going on on the Other Side now? ” - This will sound stupid, but now I'm worried that maybe the Other Side has its own Other Side and that's where the people who are being sucked into oblivion go. I hope that next season we won't be in for some multi-dimensional afterlife world, Dante-style lol
Alisha: Janellekalishaka on November 16th, 2014 02:46 am (UTC)
I enjoyed this episode. I think one of the greater aspects to it was how large yet connected it felt. The entire cast was active and moving and not in really big moments but in a lot of small individual ones. It was a great bit of writing. And it really did service not just to the living characters but those long gone and none of it felt heavy handed. It felt far more organic and genuine then some other times they have done it. (Not that I didn't love it other times...but this was much more 'blink' and you missed it...and I liked that.)

As much as I loved the moment where Damon let Elena go in the last ep, I enjoyed the moment where Damon had to ask Elena to let him go almost as much. It was so raw and honest and pained while expressing exactly how much he loved her.

Stefan! God, I love my Stefan so much right now. While there has definitely been a very clear indication that Stefan and Elena are both very much over 'Stefan and Elena' there was something so wonderful about giving them both everything they could have ever wanted. The creation of a fantasy life that was literally the ideal. And the final reaction being Stefan's "It's over." The chapter has been closed. It was beautiful. It was wonderful. It was real. But it has passed. They are different people wanting different things. And I loved that when she put her head on his shoulder and asked if he thought she and Damon could ever be friends like this....you could see him fighting to say the right thing. Something that wasn't just "Hell No" or "Seriously?" he really wanted to explain to her something much more important. He couldn't be her friend, not the way she needed him to be, until he realized he was not in love with her anymore. And Damon....Damon will never not be in love with Elena. If she wants that break, he might let her have it, but there is no 'friendship' in store for them, not anymore. And when Damon echoes that later in his conversation with Elena... I just love how much Stefan gets his brother. How much he loves his brother. Hell, I love how much Stefan apparently has thrown his hands up in the air and decided to ship Delena because someone has to help those crazy ridiculous kids.

It was a great episode.

Okay this will be all for a bit. I have to stop for the night and have plans for the next few. But I will get through these final few episodes sometime soon....even if it once again...is making Tyler interesting. God it's the worst. Also...Tyler/Liv it is still a thing.