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23 November 2013 @ 07:35 pm
5.08 - 'Dead Man on Campus' (The Vampire Diaries)  
A day or so behind, sorry, I watched Catching Fire last night (loved it!) so I didn't get home until pretty late, but better late than never! :)

I know I'm probably the only person who weirdly ships human!Katherine/Matt, but I do and this episode finally gave me a little something to sink my teeth into! "Matty Blue-Blue" just slayed me and the little banter back and forth, and was it me or did Zach Roerig look really good in this episode? Katherine's "you realize that every single time you say no it just makes you hotter, right?" brought back fond memories of her waxing poetic over his eyes in the past. Yup, Katherine's always had a thing for Matt. *sigh* So, yeah, that inexplicable shipping I have for them is still going full-force... but then there is my original Stefan pairing. Stefan and Katherine. Katherine and Stefan. Mmmhmmm.

 

Yup, looks like I very well may have called it. Katherine could be the Amara to Stefan's Silas. When Katherine flat-out told him that the universe had put all its eggs in the Elena basket I almost laughed out loud, because hello, could there be a more obvious misdirect? I don't think so. And they sure were laying a lot of Stefan/Katherine eggs in this episode. Katherine being the first (and only) one able to get through to Stefan and able to calm his raging Silas-induced crazy right now. Stefan being there to save Katherine and she could become his new mission, a way to forget his own issues and focus on someone else to save rather than himself. That may happen, but I wonder... considering how he walked away from her and considering how he does actually know Katherine now and not just as this idealized image he created of her, if he'll find himself working with her to maybe solve their problems together? That would be pretty cool. And could be key to helping the both of them. That could draw Caroline in because I could see her believing she has to save Stefan from the evil Katherine. With Elijah gone (and based on how things are playing out on The Originals as if Elijah and Katherine never happened ), it's as if it's back to Katherine being all about Stefan. I certainly got that callback to "Memory Lane" in the final moments of the final Katherine/Stefan scene.

 

The first gif is from "Memory Lane," right after Katherine had remembered in 1864 promising a just-killed Stefan (with her vampire blood running through his veins) that they would be together again and that she loved him. Parallels, parallels, parallels. Gotta love 'em. But, yeah, definite, definitely Stefan/Katherine vibesies in this episode. Boo-yah!

 
 

What did surprise me is how they are doing this anchor stuff with Bonnie. I kinda thought it would all be heartache/heartbreak, gloom and doom. I was not expecting the bit of positivity and the bright side that we did see here as well. Us seeing that Bonnie would also provide a comfort to those on the other side and that she would be not just an anchor, but a touchstone in a way was lovely That second meeting with the old lady almost made it worth it, you could tell from Bonnie's point of view. And what she said to Jeremy, that her being able to be there with Jeremy, and of course, earlier with Elena and Caroline. She is there, if not technically alive (but then, hey, other than Matt and Jeremy, who is?). She can see them, hug them, kiss them... finally have a sex scene!! (boom chica bow wow!) And get a cute, sassy do on top of that! Obviously, things can't last, and I can't see her being an anchor beyond this season because that kind of pain (especially going off like that randomly whenever) just ain't gonna work, so we'll see where we go from here. I am glad that Jeremy knows though. I wonder how long before he tells Damon. Oh, wait, Damon has been kidnapped by the evil, mad scientist that Elena wouldn't let Damon kill because she feels sorry for random guy she just met.

Yeah, that one's gonna come back and bite her in the ass, uh huh!

Oh my goodness! Wow. Damon's face, Damon's voice when he said "Because I was 21051." I mean, wow! That was unexpected. But a story that clearly they have been planning on telling since last season. In episode 17, Lexi asked Damon, "So, why'd you flip it? What traumatic event was too much for Damon Salvatore to handle?" And he told her, "Leave It To Beaver. The 50's bored me." Hahaha, Damon. It was the 50's alright. 1953 to be exact. Oh man, when Damon traced the D in his initials, I don't know if that was scripted or the director or Ian Somerhalder, but it just gutted me. Right along with his face as he realized where he was. That shot along with the earlier one when he said his number, just, ugh, paired with those quick, sterile flashbacks... this is gonna be a doozy.

 

Something tells me (OK, the quick, sterile flashbacks were big clues) the experiments that Jesse underwent were nothing compared to what Damon went through and if he kept his switch flipped for twenty-four flippin' years (1953 to 1977 when Lexi showed up in New York) they must have done quite a number on him. The question is what will happen now? Obviously it won't be as bad because they won't keep him as long because the gang *will* rescue him, but considering it's the second time around, it's going to affect him. But this will also likely bring up questions about Elena and her father to the surface as well. And now we will have two suffering Salvatores dealing with post-traumatic stress disorder. Will Damon and Stefan rely on each other? Will Damon allow Elena to help him? Will Stefan turn to Katherine? Or will he once again sublimate his own issues in his white knight complex and turn all of his energy into his mission to help Katherine? And if he does so will he once more be drawn into her web? If that happens, will that draw Elena back into his circle hoping to protect him or will she be too focused on Damon (as she should be), thus leaving the door open for Caroline to "save" him from Katherine? Lots of questions.

And here's some speculation that I don't think will bear fruit personally. I was reading elsewhere others thinking that Damon killed Aaron's parents and caused the accident on Wickery Bridge because he went after Grayson Gilbert because of the Augustine Secret Society at Whitmore College. At first I thought that was certainly possible, but now I'm thinking that it doesn't track because Damon clearly believed that that the whole Augustine experiments ended 60 years ago and Aaron's parents were killed 12-13 years ago, and Elena's parents died two to three years ago. Therefore, Damon wouldn't have had any idea that any of them were involved in the Augustine Society so I don't see how that would be tied together. Also, Julie Plec did say very, very definitively that there was no supernatural involvement in Elena's parents' death. True, she could have been lying because Plec is a lying liar who lies, but she was very, very, very definitive about it. Still, more to the point, again, Damon sounded very sure that the experiments had ended 60 years ago, so why would he be tracking down people whose parents possibly wouldn't have been born 60 years ago?

I dunno, maybe it was programmed in him, or there's some weird thingie that will explain how that could happen. This is The Vampire Diaries after all, but I'm thinking there's some other mystery that will pop up and it will be some other Augustine vampire. After all, we still don't know who the Augustine vampire is who killed Megan, right? Right. Heck, we still don't know who Megan is and what her relationship was with Grayson. Family friend, niece, secret daughter? Thus sibling to Jeremy, adopted sibling to Elena or Aaron maybe?

Speaking of... it's funny how there is such a sibling vibe between Aaron and Elena which is so different from that vibe between Aaron and Katherine (man, they were adorable). Which is good, of course, because, yes, the only moody boy I want Elena making out with is Damon. And, yes, it's good that Damon and Elena can joke about it, but there's this undercurrent. Damon's insecurities are starting to build. Not once, but twice he made reference to the idea that Elena would prefer to be with someone other than himself. It could have been some throwaway jokes because after all (sigh) Brian Young co-wrote this episode, but on the other hand, he's not a horrible writer and has co-written some of my favorite episodes. And it certainly would make sense what with Stefan back, with the two of them having that distance there with Stefan back, with this whole universe/doppelganger nonsense that Damon would have some of the old issues begin to crop up especially since she's back at college and he doesn't have her there with him. So, yeah, it makes sense.

However, her coming to his rescue should have helped!

 

While it was certainly sad to see Jesse go (and it was, it really was! I *liked* Jesse, dangit!), it was great seeing Elena (literally) running to Damon's rescue and doing what had to be done to save him. And even if Caroline was upset, and even though Elena was sorry that she had to take Jesse out, she didn't apologize for having to do what she had to do for Damon because Damon was more important. Oh, yeah, that brings us to Caroline. *sigh*

I have long been a defender of Caroline's hate-on for Damon, but, yeah, even I can't defend her for her words and actions in this episode. Considering all that, well, all of them have done, all the people they have killed or set up to be killed to defend their loved ones that she would say what she did to Elena about Damon was just so blind and hypocritical. However, I do think it was absolutely deliberate when it was stated as such. We had Caroline make that comment that "the outside world is not nearly as dangerous as the person you're inviting into your bedroom" (especially when the "outside world" she was all but referring to at this point is their college life) and then in the next minute we find out that said college is responsible for doing much more dangerous things... and TO Damon. That was very, very deliberate. And I believe (and will be very, very surprised if it does not go this direction) that Caroline *finally* sees Damon in a new light. She has been willing to see all of the horrors that have been inflicted upon others that have led them to make the awful choices they have made, but yet has been unwilling to do the same for Damon. I can't help but think that this will be the turning point for her.

And it simply has to be because this is just ridiculous at this point. As I said above, I just cannot defend her this time. She came upon the tail-end of what was going on, but she *did* see Jesse attacking Damon, and she knows Elena inside and out and knows that Elena would not have done what she did had there been any other option. Yet her instinct was to hate on Elena and Damon. And that attitude has got to change, because regardless of the fact that she truly believes what she said to Elena about being her best friend, she's not being her best friend. If she were, she'd actually listen to Elena. She'd actually do what Bonnie has done and see that Damon makes Elena happy. That Damon is there for Elena. That Damon is there for the people that Elena cares about (including Caroline) and will do anything he can to keep Elena safe and happy. Damon may not be the greatest guy, but he is the greatest guy FOR Elena. And a best friend would want that for her best friend. But Caroline can't see past her own prejudice. If it was just about how "dangerous" Damon was then Caroline wouldn't want Elena anywhere near Stefan either, because on a scale of 1 to dangerous, Stefan is a 100.

Random thoughts ...

- Damn, I would have been quite happy to NOT see Nadia (Olga Fonda) again. Alas, 'twas not to be. Maybe now she'll go away for a few months? Gah, she really is NOT good.

- Ooh, Elena looked so pretty in red. Too bad Damon didn't really get to enjoy it.

- So, the Travelers want to kill Katherine. Hmm, and her daddy was a Traveler. Double hmm. You know, my first thought was that this whole Gregor in Matt story rather ended in a whimper, but now I'm thinking that it's just opening up to a bigger story. I just hope that Matt is going to be involved. (And not only for more Matt/Katherine interaction!)

- Yeah, Caroline was sooooo in love with Tyler, right. Pshaw! As she goes macking on Jesse two seconds after Tyler leaves.

- I know I didn't talk about them much above, but Jeremy and Bonnie were sweet and I am glad that they are finally finding some measure of happiness (and, yeah, Bonnie is finally getting some!) -- five years, and the girl finally gets some action! I was gonna gif it, but really, as sweet and lovely as these two are, they don't really do anything in the heat department for me, so ... nah. They're just for the rainbow and puppies. :)

- Hahaha, Caroline and Elena's kissy faces to Bonnie's "registering classes" LMAO!

 


- I gotta say I'm cracking up at how they are basically going over the top making fun of how ridiculously over the top the college dorm room is. They know it's over the top and completely unrealistic, so they're just going with it and taking it to the extreme. I love it.

- Finally! New previouslies!

OK, before I close out, I want to touch upon a few things. I'm not sure why the show decided to focus on Stefan/Silas (aka Paul Wesley) so heavily in the first quarter of the season, including the entirety of November sweeps. I know there has been growing discontent (although I have still very much enjoyed the show), hopefully with the last couple of scenes pointing towards a Damon-centered arc, fandom will be happier with the direction of the show, and we will see not only Damon-heavier plots, but more Damon and Elena. The latter, of course, has been more of my concern since I think beyond episode three they've dropped the ball a bit (even though narratively I've understood why). I'm optimistic that we are seeing a turn now though. So a break next week, two more episodes to go before the end of year and our first hiatus. Another great episode and I'm very, very happy with this season so far.
 
 
 
faith5by5_1013: The Vampire Diaries: Damon/Elena: Kissfaith5by5_1013 on November 24th, 2013 03:53 am (UTC)
I have long been a defender of Caroline's hate-on for Damon, but, yeah, even I can't defend her for her words and actions in this episode. Considering all that, well, all of them have done, all the people they have killed or set up to be killed to defend their loved ones that she would say what she did to Elena about Damon what just so blind and hypocritical.

I agree completely. And you know I love Caroline. But, yeah, this was really hard for me as both a Caroline fan and a Damon fan. Right now, I'm just very frustrated with her.
Arabian: Damon & Elena20arabian on November 24th, 2013 04:28 am (UTC)
Yuppers, but as I said, the way it was stated and WHEN it was stated (right before the reveal of Damon's -- literal -- tortured past), I can't believe that it's not leading somewhere this time and that Caroline won't finally be forced to see Damon in a new light. And about damn time!
tj2013tj2013 on November 24th, 2013 10:16 am (UTC)
Agree to all what you are saying, thanks for sharing, as always :-))

Ha - I certainly got that callback to "Memory Lane" in the final moments of the final Katherine/Stefan scene. I thought that too!!! I simply looooove the parallels on the show.

The Augustine societey thing got me thinking - maybe Michael (who only fed on vampires) had a hand in it?

Totally love Matt and Kat and yessss, please give Zach more screentime. He is awesome.

Kat's dad was a traveller? Huh, I didn't catch that. Have to rewatch...

Oh man, two weeks with Damon in that cell. You're right, Ian just killed it with his desperate look and OMG, when he traced his initials... I went like "oh please don't hurt him, don't hurt him" - which of course they will. I know...
I don't think he killed Aaron's parents, either, doesn't make sense storywise.

They MUST be going somewhere with the Caroline-Damon dynamics. I can't imagine that he did something else to her we don't know about yet (during the time they "dated", I mean). I'd rather believe she will have to rethink her image of Damon - and Stefan, respectively. And her own, for that matter.
Arabian: Caroline05arabian on November 24th, 2013 10:55 am (UTC)
I thought that too!!! I simply looooove the parallels on the show.

Glad to know I wasn't the only one who caught that with Katherine looking up to the sky like that!

Hmm, Mikael feeding off of vampires being part of the Augustine society, very interesting thought... but would they go there with the Originals with the Originals gone now? I'm not sure.

So nice to know I'm not the only one loving the idea of Matt and Katherine. :D

Kat's dad was a traveller?

Yeah, when questioning Gregor she mentioned that Nadia's grandad (thus Katherine's father) was a Traveler.

Yup, unless they jump directly into the next episode without much of time jump (which I see no reason for them to do), Damon's gonna be in there for a few days to a few weeks, uh huh. Poor bb. He's gonna be messed up!

I don't think he killed Aaron's parents, either, doesn't make sense storywise.

Right, and I keep going back to the mystery of the Augustine vampire who killed Megan. There is definitely a mystery there.

I don't think Damon did anything else to Caroline than we already know. It's just this prejudice she has against him based on what he did to her, and she's been unable to let go of that and see that as many horrible things as he's done, he as worthy of being forgiven just as Stefan, Elena and (even moreso) Klaus is.
tj2013tj2013 on November 27th, 2013 12:20 pm (UTC)
One more thing:
if he kept his switch flipped for twenty-four flippin' years (1953 to 1977 when Lexi showed up in New York). Actually even more because he didn't flip the switch back on until he met Elena, right? He just pretended with Lexi. Or did I miss something?
Arabian: Damon16arabian on November 27th, 2013 12:44 pm (UTC)
He flipped the switch on and off when he felt like it from 1977 on until he decided to keep it on from some point after he met Elena (probably around episode 11ish?). He told Elena that anger/hate (towards Lexi in 1977) was the first emotion he let back in.
tj2013tj2013 on November 27th, 2013 01:03 pm (UTC)
Ah, right, that was it. I had discussed that point with a friend and neither of us could remember it correctly, it seems. Thanks for helping me out :-)
Arabian: Damon & Elena21arabian on December 1st, 2013 07:30 am (UTC)
Couldn't forget that one because I made a big deal about it in my write-up because it was my whole "SEE!?!? Damon and Elena are peas in a pod!!!" Because the first emotion that Elena allowed herself to feel when she opened the door again was hatred for Katherine, just Damon did for Lexi. See, peas in a pod! :D
tj2013tj2013 on December 1st, 2013 08:13 am (UTC)
my write-up because it was my whole "SEE!?!? Damon and Elena are peas in a pod
Yeah I remember you saying that. You were absolutely right. I just got mixed-up with the timeline. I couldn't remember Damon telling WHY and WHEN the rage crept back in.
Don't know what I would do without you and your recaps. Once in a while, when I have some time off, I go back to your earlier posts and read them again, it is like re-living the episodes without actually watching them, but more like watching them in my mind with all the insightful subtext you are providing. Just awesome.
BTW, I caught up with Sleepy Hollow and I keep loving the characters more and more. And it's great that they are not rushing any falling in love, but to see how Abby and Crane are caring for each other in all that madness is pure fun to watch.
Arabian: TVarabian on December 1st, 2013 09:18 am (UTC)
I go back and reread my write-ups too, LOL! It's fun. I actually was rereading my season 04 stuff and DANG! I called some stuff in my early season stuff. Ooh, I'm good, LOL!

I'm glad you're enjoying SH, it really is a great show! :D
(Anonymous) on November 24th, 2013 05:58 pm (UTC)
Thank you for your review. I feel for Damon now. Hope his story line will be food. I'm frustrated and annoyed by Caroline though and do hope that her permanent Damon bashing is intentional. I'm somehow worried though that Elena is considering her comments and wonders if she made the right decision with Damon. Don't know but that is how she comes across. Perhaps I'm wrong. I'm just missing their loving relationship and closeness and maybe that is deceiving me. You are always so positive so hope all will work out fine.
Arabian: Damon & Elena33arabian on December 1st, 2013 05:43 am (UTC)
I just can't imagine that this Caroline thing -- especially as set up by coming right before the Damon-reveal -- wasn't intentional. It was so blatant.

I'm somehow worried though that Elena is considering her comments and wonders if she made the right decision with Damon.

Oh, I don't think that AT ALL. Not in the slightest. If she was considering anything at all, it might be her friendship (or at least the degree of it) with Caroline.

their loving relationship and closeness

... is still there. The banter, the teasing. The both of them on the same page (wanting to make out with one another). Elena LITERALLY running to Damon's aid and killing for him. I think the two of them are fine.

Obviously there will be issues, duh, this is The Vampire Diaries (LOL!), but I positive overall.

Edited at 2013-12-01 07:28 am (UTC)
tams71: pic#97498213tams71 on November 24th, 2013 09:01 pm (UTC)
Awesome insights as usual! You're not the only one who ships Human Katherine and Matt. That scene at the bar was all kinds of fabulous. "Matty Blue-Blue." LOVED it! I have to say though that I also love Human Katherine and Stefan and think you were right when you said that Katherine is Stefan's Amara and vice versa. There were too many moments during the episode, not to think that this is where the writers/showrunners are heading. I do like Stefan and Caroline as well, but Stefan and Katherine share a complicated history so my money is on them right now. Besides that, Caroline is on my shit list right now and I don't want to ship her with anyone, but her judgmental self.

I also love how the whole anchor deal is playing out. Like you, I don't see it playing out past this season. It would be too much for Bonnie to handle in the long run and I don't want to see her suffer anymore than she already has. A crazy Bonnie would be pretty awesome though. Just sayin'.

I'm UBER excited for this new Damon arc. I have been waiting, and waiting, and waiting for something of this magnitude to come along. Ian is going to rock it like nobody's business! Yeah baby! The look on Damon's face when he saw that number and the scene where he traces his name in that cell, OMG! Now we know why Damon flipped his switch and turned into a royal asshole. He had to do it in order to survive the hell he endured at the hands of Dr. Evil 1.0. Those short, flashes were horrifc and terrifying and although I'll hte to watch Damon endure that kind of agony, I know that everything he went through started him on his journey to the Damon he is now. It is going to be fascinating to watch Ian kill this storyline.

I agree with you and don't think that Damon killed Aaron's parents. I'm actually leaning towards one of Dr. Wes' experimental vampires slaughtering Aaron's family which led him to seek Aaron out and become his guardian. Aaron said that he had been moved around after his parent's death so he wasn't with Wes right away. I wonder why that is. Hmmm........Maybe Damon knows the Augustine vampire who killed them...

My take on Grayson Gilbert's involvement is that he was possibly a part of the secret Augustine society, maybe even conducting experiments on vampires himself, hence the "Fifty Shades of Grayson" episode title coming up. Dr. Wes did say he was a legend around Whitmore right? We know that the Gilbert's were a founding family and that John was a member of the Founder's Council, so that means that Grandpa Gilbert was a member as well. Perhaps Grandpa Gilbert is Dr. Evil 1.0 from the 1953 version of "let's torture some vamps." It's definitely going to be interesting to see what Grayson's involvement in vampire experimenting entailed and to find out what his connection with Megan was. Definitely lots of secrets floating around in this particular family; dopplegangers, vampire hunters, etc. I wonder if Grayson and Miranda knew about Elena and Jeremy...

I'm sick and tired of Caroline's judgmental, hypocritical attitude towards Damon. Ummm hello, you flirted with and cozied up to Klaus who is the cruelest hybrid on the planet and your ex-boyfriend is now a psycho bent on revenge. What about your judgment sweetie? You can let Katherine share your dorm room after she KILLED you, but the guy who has saved your life and did everything in his power to bring back your friend from the DEAD, is a dangerous, evil, nasty vampire who doesn't deserve your best friend's love. Ugh! I understand that she liked Jesse. I liked Jesee, but Jesse was a crazy jacked up vampire who had basically been programmed to kill vampires. If Elena hadn't put Jesse out of his misery and yes it was misery, Caroline would have been his next victim. I know Caroline's words were a precursor to Damon's new arc, but I am so over the Damon hate from her. Can we give her something else to obsess about already. Geez.





Arabian: Damon02arabian on December 1st, 2013 06:32 am (UTC)
You're not the only one who ships Human Katherine and Matt.

Which I am HAPPILY finding out! WOOHOO!

Alas, yeah, I do think that Stefan/Human!Katherine is where it's at, but I'm just wondering if this will eventually wind back to Caroline/Matt, by drawing Caroline and Katherine into the Stefan/Katherine story with Caroline via Stefan and Matt via Katherine. Could be quite interesting. Of course, we still have the Elena aspect because you know they won't (sigh) drop the original triangle even though they soooooooo should.

A crazy Bonnie would be pretty awesome though. Just sayin'.

LOL! I do not disagree.

Now we know why Damon flipped his switch and turned into a royal asshole.

Now we know.

I agree with you and don't think that Damon killed Aaron's parents. I'm actually leaning towards one of Dr. Wes' experimental vampires slaughtering Aaron's family which led him to seek Aaron out and become his guardian.

Yup, yup. The show is really good about dropping seeds and clues about upcoming storylines so that very well probably was one such clue. And we still don't know who the Augustine vampire currently is. Is it the same one? Is it someone we know? How could it be? I don't know! I am intrigued, though!

Maybe Damon knows the Augustine vampire who killed them...

Maybe.

My take on Grayson Gilbert's involvement is that he was possibly a part of the secret Augustine society, maybe even conducting experiments on vampires himself

Oh, he totally was! I'll be very surprised if he wasn't. Especially after what Maxfield told Elena in the early episode.

I'm sick and tired of Caroline's judgmental, hypocritical attitude towards Damon. Ummm hello, you flirted with and cozied up to Klaus who is the cruelest hybrid on the planet and your ex-boyfriend is now a psycho bent on revenge. What about your judgment sweetie? You can let Katherine share your dorm room after she KILLED you, but the guy who has saved your life and did everything in his power to bring back your friend from the DEAD, is a dangerous, evil, nasty vampire who doesn't deserve your best friend's love.

Yup, yup, yup... but it has GOT to be leading somewhere. It has just been waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too over the top.
MaelJ0714: necklacemaelj0714 on November 25th, 2013 07:44 am (UTC)
My goodness, what an awesome post! One of your commentors said a couple of weeks ago that you don't just recap but really analyze the episodes and that is what makes your writeups so fun to read. I couldn't agree more.

was it me or did Zach Roerig look really good in this episode?

Matt looks particularly good this season, doesn't he?? I can't quite put my finger on what is different about him, but it's working for me!

Yup, looks like I very well may have called it. Katherine could be the Amara to Stefan's Silas.

Yes, you did, Miss Arabian. :-D And so many other things (one of the reasons I love reading your thoughts). Watching Stefan and Katherine, I couldn't help think of you saying their relationship never had closure. As much as I'd like Stefan and Caroline as a couple, I love that the show is finally addressing this. I particularly liked Stefan's expression in the second .gif after he catches her and the casual way he asked, "What are you doing?" :) And her look as he walked away....so good. (On a side note, nice imagery choosing the clock tower as a way to end her life.)

That could draw Caroline in because I could see her believing she has to save Stefan from the evil Katherine.

This I would like to see. I've wanted a triangle with Stefan, Katherine and Caroline for a while now. And I can certainly see Caroline taking the same stance with Stefan and Katherine as she has with Elena and Damon. More on that later.... :)

All the scenes with Bonnie were wonderful. I loved the positive spin on the anchor, too. She is so happy and grateful to be back and willing to handle whatever she needs to. And wasn't she beautiful in this episode? It would surprise me if she and Jeremy aren't endgame. Just so sweet and romantic. And they've been establishing her as very much a part of the Elena/Jeremy/Damon familly. I love that Bonnie has witnessed so many Damon moments that are usually reserved for just the audience (Elena's happy summer, saving Jeremy's life, talking with Silas). I don't think she'll ever be Team Damon (like Jeremy) is, but I love that she's seen these moments.

YES. THIS. and WORD to everything you said in your writeup about Caroline, You expressed EXACTLY what I thought and felt. You know I have no problem with how Caroline treats Damon, rightly so, but her attitude with Elena is inexcusable. Saying that she is fine with the two of them together if Elena'd just acknowledge the kind of person she is with (EVUL DAMON) is all kinds of wrong. Who doesn't think if Elena ever criticized Damon that Caroline would be all over that? Why shouldn't we? She promised to support Elena and not tell Stefan she and Damon slept together at the end of 4.08. She told Stefan the very next episode and, if anything, became more critical of their relationship. And seeing people for who they really are? Stefan? Klaus? Well, there's no need to even go there.

We had Caroline make that comment that "the outside world is not nearly as dangerous as the person you're inviting into your bedroom" (especially when the "outside world" she was all but referring to at this point is their college life) and then in the next minute we find out that said college is responsible for doing much more dangerous things... and TO Damon. That was very, very deliberate.

I loved what you said here (I did not catch this) and really hope you are right about her seeing Damon in a new light. I hope she doesn't take the position that he deserves every bad thing that's happened to him. Because Caroline is not a truthsayer on the show, I could see this happening. Elena's beginning to show a little impatience with her, and if that does happen, I wouldn't mind her giving Caroline an ultimatum (in return) that she can't continue to say these things and the two be best friends. And Elena hopes that day never comes, as well. :thpttft: This probably won't happen but girl once did order her out of the Salvatore mansion. Either way, this has gotten ridiculous and I WOULD LOVE to see it addressed very soon.

cont.
Arabian: Damon09arabian on December 1st, 2013 07:16 am (UTC)
My goodness, what an awesome post! One of your commentors said a couple of weeks ago that you don't just recap but really analyze the episodes and that is what makes your writeups so fun to read. I couldn't agree more.

I don't actually consider these recaps because I don't recap the episodes, they are analyses because I do break them down and, well, analyze them, LOL! That's my point of doing them. :)

It would surprise me if she and Jeremy aren't endgame.

Me too.

I don't think she'll ever be Team Damon (like Jeremy) is, but I love that she's seen these moments.

Agreed; it gives her a point of view on Damon and Damon/Elena (and Damon/Jeremy) that the others don't have.

I hope she doesn't take the position that he deserves every bad thing that's happened to him.

I can't see Caroline being anything other than sympathetic. I really do think it will be a turning point.

this has gotten ridiculous and I WOULD LOVE to see it addressed very soon.

It was SO on the nose with those final scenes, I just can't see it not being groundwork lain.
MaelJ0714: necklacemaelj0714 on November 25th, 2013 07:46 am (UTC)
Speaking of Damon, I don't even care, I just loved his scenes with Dr. Maxfield. Damon takes such perverse delight in doing bad things to bad people to get information from them. It reminded me of his scene with Mason, figuring out which method would inflict the most pain for the best results. And as you've said, it's all in the delivery. From Wes telling Damon to be careful with the test tubes ("These? These right here?") to sliding around on the floor in the chair, to contemplating the effects of the flesh-eating bacteria ("Gross") and enthusiastically getting down to business ("So, I'm gonna to do that..."). Ian is just SO DANG ENTERTAINING. (And could he BE anymore good looking???)

And, I'll say it, I haven't minded seeing him get tortured either. I mean, Damon in a spiked collar being rescued by Elijah or trussed up bare-chested by Rebecca weren't the worst scenes in the world (and I particularly loved him in the warehouse with Logan Fell); but from what it appears we'll see in the next couple of episodes?? EEK. Will Not Like. This goes beyond the fun tit-for-tat revenge torture. The glimpses of dissections, entrails, bleeding from the eyes -- nothing short of horrific. Just from those last two scenes, next episode will be gutwrenching.

I thought it was interesting how this entire season has been Stefan/Silas centered and then leading into our first hiatus (thankfully a short one) we are finally getting our Damon storyline. These writers know exactly who the draw is on this show, don't they? :)

You had so many great questions about where all of this is going. Your theories about the Augustine Society, Grayson Gilbert, Aaron, Katherine's father....so much fun to read. Just loved them all. Can't wait for December!
Arabian: Elena11arabian on December 1st, 2013 07:18 am (UTC)
Damon Salvatore/Ian Somerhalder is just so damn entertaining to watch. He clearly relishes the hell out of playing this character and the writers clearly love writing Damon. It doesn't matter what we get with him, it's always perfection. Just fantastic.

Your theories about the Augustine Society, Grayson Gilbert, Aaron, Katherine's father....so much fun to read

That's what I'm loving about this season (aside from the doppelganger story arc) is that it really opened up this brand new world of mystery that has been sprinkled just ever so lightly in earlier seasons and now it can go in so many ways. I can't wait!
Florencia: DE (Sunlight)florencia7 on November 26th, 2013 08:59 pm (UTC)
“I know I'm probably the only person who weirdly ships human!Katherine/Matt, but I do and this episode finally gave me a little something to sink my teeth into!” - haha Yes, I immediately thought about you when that scene happened!

”I certainly got that callback to "Memory Lane" in the final moments of the final Katherine/Stefan scene.” - OH I didn't catch that! That's so cool.

I can hardly believe not that we got some SK (at last!), but that we got THAT much SK & that it was so unabashedly loaded with emotions. Even though... how are SK getting more together screen time than DE?!? lol


”Obviously, things can't last, and I can't see her being an anchor beyond this season because that kind of pain just ain't gonna work.” - Unless they find a way to eliminate the pain. Maybe, um, “enjoying” the experience changes things. Maybe Amara was constantly fighting it and that was the reason it hurt so much? Maybe Bonnie, having developed certain understanding/appreciation of being an anchor/ touchstone, will somehow make the pain to go away?

The problem is, that if we manage to bring Bonnie back to the world of the living, she'll become (much like Jeremy, due to his impressive track record of deaths) pretty much invincible (storytelling-wise), because killing her AGAIN won't be an option. I actually think that she'll either truly die or remain an anchor, maybe even re-invent the idea of being an anchor & turn the Other Side into an awesome place lol

”Oh my goodness! Wow. Damon's face, Damon's voice when he said "Because I was 21051." I mean, wow! That was unexpected.” - My sentiments exactly! *___* I'm not even trying to guess in which direction they will take this storyline. It can go everywhere. It's just such a good twist with SO MUCH potential as far as characters bonding, clashing & everything in between & beyond goes.

Do you think it's possible that Grayson is alive? That he is a vampire? Augustine? Both?? That when the accident happened he wanted Stefan to save Elena, because he knew he wouldn't die anyway?

”If it was just about how "dangerous" Damon was then Caroline wouldn't want Elena anywhere near Stefan either, because on a scale of 1 to dangerous, Stefan is a 100.” - LOL

I'm actually not annoyed with Caroline. Because I'm sure that the writers made her say what she said ONLY as a set up for her to permanently change her mind very, very soon. It felt 100% that way to me.

”but now I'm thinking that it's just opening up to a bigger story” - This is a nice twist too! I love how they make use of Katherine & her past this season.

I loved this episode & I LOVED reading your thoughts!!! ♥ ♥

Edited at 2013-11-26 09:00 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Damon & Elena32arabian on December 1st, 2013 07:28 am (UTC)
OH I didn't catch that! That's so cool.

I know bunches didn't catch that "Memory Lane" callback, but I didn't catch it until I watched the episode a second time. I'd almost second-guess myself, but I did see other people gif-ing it on tumblr too, LOL!

I can hardly believe not that we got some SK (at last!), but that we got THAT much SK & that it was so unabashedly loaded with emotions. Even though... how are SK getting more together screen time than DE?!? lol

I don't care (because I know more D/E will come), I just feel vindicated! I kept telling people that it would come! They would bitch and moan that the show was dropping storylines and I'd be like "no, they're not! It's a six-season arc, when it's the right time, they'll tell the story. It's like with Stefan/Rebekah, it wasn't time to tell their story right away, they told it when it was time." And they did! Same thing here. So, yes, aha! Vindication!

Maybe Amara was constantly fighting it and that was the reason it hurt so much?

But Bonnie's not fighting it. I don't know, I don't think so... :shrugs: We'll see.

The problem is, that if we manage to bring Bonnie back to the world of the living, she'll become (much like Jeremy, due to his impressive track record of deaths) pretty much invincible (storytelling-wise), because killing her AGAIN won't be an option.

Why? She can still die. And no one will be expecting it.

It's just such a good twist with SO MUCH potential as far as characters bonding, clashing & everything in between & beyond goes.

Yup. I do think the one potential that is pretty much a given is PAIN for Damon, though. Yuppers.

Do you think it's possible that Grayson is alive?

Nope.

That he is a vampire?

Nope.

Augustine?

Nope.

Both??

Nope.

That when the accident happened he wanted Stefan to save Elena, because he knew he wouldn't die anyway?

Nope. For a few reasons. If he would have survived, he would have saved Elena himself, he would have showed up miraculously alive and not left Elena and Jeremy orphaned, and from a showrunner's point of viev, after how emotionally effecting it was and all of the kudos she got, Julie would NEVER take away that scene where Elena's father gave up his life for her. Nope. Nuh uh. No way. I can't see the writer in her ever doing that.

I do think we're going to find out some very nasty things about Grayson, but not that he's alive. I could be TOTALLY wrong about that, but I just don't think so. I just can't see Julie undoing that scene from "The Departed."

I'm actually not annoyed with Caroline. Because I'm sure that the writers made her say what she said ONLY as a set up for her to permanently change her mind very, very soon. It felt 100% that way to me.

THANK YOU! Everyone else is questioning it! You're the only other person who agrees with me 100% on that. It's so obvious, right?!
(Anonymous) on November 28th, 2013 05:48 am (UTC)
I always want to comment on your (excellent!) reviews but when I try to get it down I just end up with a paragraph that amounts to 'word'. Seriously, I pretty much always agree with your character/shipping preferences and predictions. I tend to be a little more negative than you, but the last thing I want to do on your posts is bring the mood down. Regardless, I decided to suck it up and comment anyways, because I've noticed the fandom has been slowing/dying down lately and there's never too much discussion.

First off, I totally agree with you on the Matt/Katherine and Stefan/Katherine points. I know the former will probably never be a thing but I like the little the show gives us. It's such an unexpected dynamic but it works. I wasn't quite an into S/K as you were previously but this episode sold me. She doesn't coddle him like most of the others in his life, and while I understand why people disliked the 'Suck it up' line, it worked for me. I also loved the parallel to "Memory Lane' that you pointed out, as I managed to miss completely. I actually really liked Stefan in this episode, which is rare for me at this point. I'm really looking forward to where to this goes and Caroline's possible involvement.

I also agree with everything D/E related. Their scenes this season have been as amazing as always, but they've also been limited. Hopefully that'll be changing with this upcoming plot. Damon manages to be the highlight in most episodes without having a main storyline, so I'm really looking forward to how awesome Ian will rock the next few episodes.

While it was certainly sad to see Jesse go (and it was, it really was! I *liked* Jesse, dangit!), it was great seeing Elena (literally) running to Damon's rescue and doing what had to be done to save him.

This. I really with Jesse had gotten to stick around longer but I loved this part. Actually, I just plain loved Elena this episode. I mean, I always do, but I feel this episode really showed her at her best. From her giggly happiness with Bonnie and Caroline (5x01 made me realize I will never get enough of happy!Elena), to her empathizing with Aaron, to staking Jesse. I think it really showed the ways that she's stayed the same (her loved ones < everyone else) and how she's grown (her acceptance of vampirism). Contrary to Caroline's heart of the moment statement, I very much believe the Elena of seasons past would have done the same. The only difference is her ability to make the choice without drowning in guilt afterwords.

And I believe (and will be very, very surprised if it does not go this direction) that Caroline *finally* sees Damon in a new light.


It seems likely. At the very least she last statement to Elena was definitely meant to invoke dramatic irony. Despite that, I really had trouble with her this episode. I have no problem with her Damon issues, even though I enjoy their less antagonistic interactions, but I wish they'd deal with them directly. The way she treated Elena made me cringe.
Arabian: Elena10arabian on December 1st, 2013 07:11 am (UTC)
I've certainly noticed fandom dying down too. I suppose in its fifth year that makes sense. Until some HUGE, jaw-dropping thing happens, I figure it will stay that way. So thank you very much for stepping in and helping to fill the void and I appreciate you attempting to be more positive and thinking of my positivity. :)

I know the former will probably never be a thing but I like the little the show gives us. It's such an unexpected dynamic but it works.

I can't tell you how thrilled I am at the number of people who are enjoying them as well!! :D I did NOT expect that.

I wasn't quite an into S/K as you were previously but this episode sold me.

Well, Stefan/Caroline, then Katherine/Elijah, Stefan/Rebekah, and then Matt/human!Katherine totally overrode my Stefan/Katherine feels, but I've always maintained a soft spot for them so yeah...

She doesn't coddle him like most of the others in his life, and while I understand why people disliked the 'Suck it up' line, it worked for me.

Yeah, it didn't bother me at all because it showed me that Stefan now totally sees her EXACTLY as she is. Like she doesn't coddle him, he's not going to coddle her either!

I also loved the parallel to "Memory Lane' that you pointed out, as I managed to miss completely.

I totes missed it the first time I watched the episode too.

I'm really looking forward to where to this goes and Caroline's possible involvement.

I was responding to someone else and a possibility struck me that kinda excited me. This could eventually wind back to Caroline/Matt by drawing Caroline and Katherine into the Stefan/Katherine story with Caroline via Stefan and Matt via Katherine. (Alas, we still have the Elena aspect too because you know they won't (sigh) drop the original triangle even though they soooooooo should.)

5x01 made me realize I will never get enough of happy!Elena

God, me SOOOO much too!!

Contrary to Caroline's heart of the moment statement, I very much believe the Elena of seasons past would have done the same. The only difference is her ability to make the choice without drowning in guilt afterwords.

Yup, Caroline's statement actually showed that Caroline *isn't* her best friend. She really doesn't know Elena all that well at all. And I find that quite sad. :(

Despite that, I really had trouble with her this episode. I have no problem with her Damon issues, even though I enjoy their less antagonistic interactions, but I wish they'd deal with them directly. The way she treated Elena made me cringe.

I do believe that was the intention. You were SUPPOSED to be upset with Caroline in those final scenes because she was WRONG. Undeniably, indisputably wrong. And the scene following up her statement to Elena proved it. Remember we saw what happened with Damon, Jesse and Elena and we know that Elena had ZERO choice. It was Damon or Jesse. She could NOT have saved them both. Caroline didn't see what happened, so she didn't know that, she just assumed it. Caroline was wrong. So, yes, as viewers we were NOT supposed to side with Caroline. She was wrong.
bangel_4e: delenabangel_4e on November 28th, 2013 04:50 pm (UTC)
I have long been a defender of Caroline's hate-on for Damon, but, yeah, even I can't defend her for her words and actions in this episode. Considering all that, well, all of them have done, all the people they have killed or set up to be killed to defend their loved ones that she would say what she did to Elena about Damon what just so blind and hypocritical.

AGREED. 100%. I was really, truly annoyed at Caroline...She met Jess 2 seconds ago and blames Elena for killing him when her boyfriend was dying? whaaaat? WHAT? It doesn't make a bit of sense. She would've saved ANYONE she cared about...she met Jesse a couple of days before. And he wasn't going to stop. And Caroline saying the "OLD" Elena would have never done that...UHM..WHAAAT?
It was whats all around for me.
And I was also pissed at Elena, at first..cause she just stood there and didn't say anything to Caroline,. Just looked at her all guilty and hurt. FIGHT BACK, REPLY, SAY SOMETHING. Nothing. But I hope they did that cause, with this Damon storyline, it's gonna be a turning point for her and they need it to resolve it that way. We shall see.

Katherine and Stefan...oh, how I love them. I missed the moon parallel so thanks for posting the gifs. I truly hope they're gonna keep working on this connection and bring Caroline to the mix. And the Elena basket quote...lol They all keep saying that..I love it.

Damon's storyline...I'm SO interested and as you noticed, it all goes back to past references and experiences. It will be painful but lovely to watch..if that makes sense. This is just a weirdly funny thing: I read comments from Stefan fans (more like crazy stans) who were pissed at Damon's fans cause they had to suffer (lol) 3 months cause Stefan was locked in a safe and now they're complaining Damon's suffering..basically, they were comparing who suffered more..O.O Which really weirded me out. People are crazy sometimes.


I don't have much more to say about this episode...
The jokes between Damon & Elena were cute (even if there's this tension underneath), I ADORE Katherine/Matt (and Katherine more and more), Caroline was REALLY sad about Tyler (lol)....I'm not excited about the Travellers thing, but we will see where it goes (unfortunately, that means more Olga).

And I REALLY hope they won't let Damon be the one that killed Aaron's parents. It wouldn't make sense and it would be stupid. But then again, it's Julie Plec so...She wrote on twitter that Caroline's off-limits cause people were complaining for what she said. lol

Oh, Jeremy and Boonie were so cute...and it was nice to see a positive side of being an anchor.
But I have to say this: I think Steven is such a terrible actor. He feels so forced and doesn't do anything for me. There, I said it ;)



Edited at 2013-11-28 04:52 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Damon & Elena29arabian on December 1st, 2013 06:07 am (UTC)
She met Jesse 2 seconds ago

Ah, this isn't why I'm upset with Caroline. (My upset is, I'm sure intended by the writers, because of her hypocritical blind spot over Damon.) She didn't just meet Jesse 2 seconds ago. She's known him about a month now. He's been a nice solid support for when she hasn't had anyone else and he's kinda her new project and we know how important that is to Caroline. Plus, they connected on an emotional level and that matters a lot.

[she] blames Elena for killing him when her boyfriend was dying? whaaaat? WHAT?

No, that's not it. She honestly, genuinely believed that there was another way and that Elena jumped too quickly to killing Jesse and that she did so because that's what *Damon* would have done instead of finding a more "Elena-like" solution to save them both. It's not specifically that she thought Jesse was worth saving over Damon, it's that she believed BOTH could have been saved and that if Elena weren't becoming more like her "evil" boyfriend, she would have thought of a way to save them both. That's where Caroline's mind-set was.

And I was also pissed at Elena, at first..cause she just stood there and didn't say anything to Caroline.

Because she was wondering the same thing. Could I have done something else? Save Damon AND Jesse? Did I miss something? Did I jump too quickly into killing Jesse when I could have saved them both? Have I changed for the worse? It wasn't about believing that Caroline was right about Damon and that he was awful, but that ELENA was awful and could have done something to save Jesse TOO! That is what it was about.

But I hope they did that cause, with this Damon storyline, it's gonna be a turning point for her and they need it to resolve it that way. We shall see.

I really don't see how it wasn't. It was TOO on the nose. Caroline basically equating their "life" with college and then saying that Damon was more dangerous than their life just as we find out that their life (thus college) had tortured the hell out of Damon and was about to do so again.

I missed the moon parallel so thanks for posting the gifs.

No problem. I didn't catch that until I watched the episode a second time.

I truly hope they're gonna keep working on this connection and bring Caroline to the mix.

Oh, I hope so. It will give me Stefan/Katherine, Stefan/Caroline, AND Caroline/Katherine which I've found I enjoy plenty as well!! *squee*

And the Elena basket quote...lol They all keep saying that..I love it.

YUP! Couldn't be more obvious!! Hah!

I ADORE Katherine/Matt (and Katherine more and more)

So glad to find I'm really not the only one. WHEE!

unfortunately, that means more Olga

UGH! :(

And I REALLY hope they won't let Damon be the one that killed Aaron's parents.

Just makes no sense.

But then again, it's Julie Plec so...

That makes no sense. Jule Plec doesn't do stuff that doesn't make sense on TVD. (TO, on the other hand...) But on TVD, stuff makes sense. She doesn't just pull crap out of her ass. Like even Stefan not saving Elena in the water. We've now had a few references to vampires NOT liking water and Damon said in season 01 that vampires' bodies work like normal. They have to breathe, thus they can drown. They just come back to life. WIth the vamps/underwater issue/breathing issue, Stefan would have had problems maneuvering two bodies. So, no, if it doesn't make sense, it's not going to just randomly happen.

She wrote on twitter that Caroline's off-limits cause people were complaining for what she said. lol

I don't follow either on Twitter (and actually rarely read on Twitter) so I have no idea what you're talking about.

But I have to say this: I think Steven is such a terrible actor. He feels so forced and doesn't do anything for me. There, I said it ;)

I don't think think he's great, but I think he's good. I actually think he's pretty natural. I always believe him which is more than I can say for Trevino and even Paul sometimes. (All the others I think are better, though, yeah.)

Edited at 2013-12-01 06:10 am (UTC)
bangel_4e: delena2bangel_4e on December 1st, 2013 01:47 pm (UTC)
Ah, this isn't why I'm upset with Caroline. (My upset is, I'm sure intended by the writers, because of her hypocritical blind spot over Damon.) She didn't just meet Jesse 2 seconds ago. She's known him about a month now. He's been a nice solid support for when she hasn't had anyone else and he's kinda her new project and we know how important that is to Caroline. Plus, they connected on an emotional level and that matters a lot.

Sorry, but I don't buy that. I never felt a deep bond between the two and therefore it feels like 2 seconds to me. A couple of scenes just don't do it for me.

No, that's not it. She honestly, genuinely believed that there was another way and that Elena jumped too quickly to killing Jesse and that she did so because that's what *Damon* would have done instead of finding a more "Elena-like" solution to save them both. It's not specifically that she thought Jesse was worth saving over Damon, it's that she believed BOTH could have been saved and that if Elena weren't becoming more like her "evil" boyfriend, she would have thought of a way to save them both. That's where Caroline's mind-set was.
But she knew it later on. And in that moment, when Caroline said that to Elena, she could've told her what was going on, instead of just looking at her.

Because she was wondering the same thing. Could I have done something else? Save Damon AND Jesse? Did I miss something? Did I jump too quickly into killing Jesse when I could have saved them both? Have I changed for the worse? It wasn't about believing that Caroline was right about Damon and that he was awful, but that ELENA was awful and could have done something to save Jesse TOO! That is what it was about.
And that was one scene and one motive. Later on, she's still quiet when Caroline tells her what she thinks about Damon.

That makes no sense. Jule Plec doesn't do stuff that doesn't make sense on TVD. (TO, on the other hand...) But on TVD, stuff makes sense. She doesn't just pull crap out of her ass. Like even Stefan not saving Elena in the water. We've now had a few references to vampires NOT liking water and Damon said in season 01 that vampires' bodies work like normal. They have to breathe, thus they can drown. They just come back to life. WIth the vamps/underwater issue/breathing issue, Stefan would have had problems maneuvering two bodies. So, no, if it doesn't make sense, it's not going to just randomly happen.
Actually, I think that what I wrote does make sense. Cause I haven't said Julie always does stuff that don't make sense. But I haven't always liked how she handled things, whether they make sense or not...and I just don't trust her with big things. She gives me this feeling. So, I hope they won't do something stupid...cause I can't fully trust her.

I don't follow either on Twitter (and actually rarely read on Twitter) so I have no idea what you're talking about.
It's very simple. People were telling to Julie Plec that they were sick of Caroline being a hypocrite and that she wasn't a true friend to Elena and she was being blind to everything around her. Julie wrote in response that Caroline's off-limits.


Arabian: Damon & Elena25arabian on December 2nd, 2013 09:57 am (UTC)
Sorry, but I don't buy that. I never felt a deep bond between the two and therefore it feels like 2 seconds to me. A couple of scenes just don't do it for me.

But it was more than a couple of scenes and I do feel that they tried to earn that a connection was growing between them. I'm sure it didn't feel real for everyone. Heck, some viewers still don't buy Damon/Elena or Stefan/Elena, or Jeremy/Bonnie. I don't buy Caroline/Tyler even after three seasons. But I *did* buy the connection between Caroline and Jesse. That popsicle scene did it for me. Just like that one scene between Caroline and Stefan in the bathroom back in episode 03 of season 02 did it for me with them. Others just built on to it. With Jesse and Caroline, other small moments (admittedly just a few) built on to it where I was looking forward to seeing where it went. She did like Jesse more than Damon absolutely.

But she knew it later on. And in that moment, when Caroline said that to Elena, she could've told her what was going on, instead of just looking at her.

Do you honestly think that Caroline would have listened? Of course not. And again, Elena was wondering the same thing at that point. She was wondering if she had changed, and yes, if Damon had changed because she had assumed he would/could have killed Maxfield too.

And that was one scene and one motive. Later on, she's still quiet when Caroline tells her what she thinks about Damon.

Because as I said above it's not just her, she is concerned about Damon and the ramifications. Elena is still a young woman, and she is still finding her way as a vampire and in a relationship with a "reformed serial killer." It doesn't make her love Damon any less. And I wouldn't be surprised if a part of her wasn't thinking about the whole "best friends" part with Caroline too because, yeah, Caroline's a lousy best friend. And she killed someone. There was A LOT going on in Elena's head in that moment.

Actually, I think that what I wrote does make sense. Cause I haven't said Julie always does stuff that don't make sense.

We'll have to agree to disagree because, well, I don't agree. And I do trust her with the big and most of the little stuff too. Plus, it's Caroline Dries who is running the big picture of TVD now because Julie's pretty occupied with TO and The Tomorrow People anyway.

People were telling to Julie Plec that they were sick of Caroline being a hypocrite and that she wasn't a true friend to Elena and she was being blind to everything around her. Julie wrote in response that Caroline's off-limits.

And that's why I don't follow her on twitter. She's the WORST at PR of any kind. She's overly protective of her characters and has no clue how to respond to even justified viewers who are upset. :smh:
bangel_4e: harrybangel_4e on December 2nd, 2013 02:29 pm (UTC)
She did like Jesse more than Damon absolutely.
I don't question that, she really did.
But you know, feelings for a couple are so very subjective. I just don't care. Sure, they had cute scenes but it still didn't feel THAT important.

Do you honestly think that Caroline would have listened?
No, she wouldn't. But that's not the point. It was just...in this scene and also later on, I was there on the edge of my seat screaming for Elena to say something..to react, to defend herself and Damon, even if she had doubts, even if she was reflecting on Caroline's words. Maybe it's because I am impulsive and I react quickly and that's maybe why I was expecting her to say something...anything..I don't know. It just felt like it was right for her to stand up for herself and her relationship. And yes, she has things she's still figuring out and I don't doubt that.

And I wouldn't be surprised if a part of her wasn't thinking about the whole "best friends" part with Caroline too because, yeah, Caroline's a lousy best friend. And she killed someone. There was A LOT going on in Elena's head in that moment.
Sure, I have no doubts she had.

it's Caroline Dries who is running the big picture of TVD now
Yeah, yeah...I'm kinda thankful for that. But yes, we'll have to disagree ;)

She's overly protective of her characters and has no clue how to respond to even justified viewers who are upset.
Yep, she really sucks at doing that.
(Anonymous) on December 4th, 2013 01:46 pm (UTC)
Hi. Sorry, I'm gonna sound stupid even for myself - but I'm freaking out a litlle bit. ) And I came to you because not only you are very positive and reasonable, but you get the show/storytelling on a deep level. Here is the thing. There is a Delena blogger who have been online/phone-friends with a girl who (supposedly) is a hair/make-up stylist on TVD set. And recently this girl told her that writers are planning SE-endgame. And she knows it cuz she is personal friends with some cast/crew members. Normally I never believe gossips like this - even actors know nothing beyond next episode. And I would say SE endgame is illogical from the storytelling and even moneymaking standpoints. But there are some things about the show that bother me a little in the context of this gossip.

Elena seems to really think Stefan is perfect no matter what and while I agree that it's in character for her to see the best in people, to concentrate on a good aspects of relationships - I keep thinking that may be it's how the writers expect us to see Stefan too - as a perfect boyfriend/white knight/best choice who" will always be good for Elena". The way I see Stefan as a not-so-good and-not -really-the-best-choise - it's all in the subtext and never verbally addressed by characters. It's always Show and almost never Tell - and than it just swept under a carpet because Stefan "wasn't himself" or he's been hurt. It looks like Elena was much more indifferent to Stefan in season 4 - when she was sired. She hadn't been jealous and she wasn't flirting - like in 504 with almost the kiss! It doesn't helping that Elena was defending Damon/standing up for herself and her feelings for him to Caroline during the sirebond period too. But now she looks like she begins to wonder whether Damon is really too bad of a person for her to be with and whether she herself became a bad person under Damon's influence. (Cont.)
(Anonymous) on December 4th, 2013 02:01 pm (UTC)
(Cont) Also I don't like this hints on a sirebond - what Stefan told Elena about her annoying tendency to do what Damon tells her - which didn't make sense for amnesia-Stefan to tell - so I don't get why the writers even wrote that line, what for? (As well as Tessa's line about Co-dependence) What's the point to even hint at some kind of dependence between Delena? To bait Stelena shippers? Cuz now they think Elena is still sired or SB messed with her feelings and that's what the writers are leading to. I thought to myself while watching - WTF? Elena is here because she did exactly the opposite of what Damon told her to do!

Tell VS Show? But then again - in season 4 how many times the SB "proofs" didn't make sense and words contradicted what we were shown?And still at the end of the season we haven't got neither disproof of the SB existence nor explanation of how the damn thing worked! It was all left without a clarification. And now I think that maybe it was on purpose? May be the writers will tell us eventually that SB made Elena more loyal to Damon and clouded her judgement. Or even lessened her Epic love for Stefan. And now things are going back to how they supposed to be if SB never happened.

What bothers me is there are people like you who put an effort, mind and thoughts into episode's analysis - and they can read into subtext and explain character's behaviour and motives. But the majority of the audience - which gives the ratings and ultimately the money - are just casual viewers who don't think about what they saw, who don't analize. They take it on a face value - which means they go by what's been TOLD, what's on the surface. And I think most part of the audience think Stefan is Good Hero and Stelena is a good relationships. And the idea of a Destiny is appealing and Romantic to them so Stelena endgame will be logical from their POV.

And I sometimes wonder whether I give TVD more depth then I should? Maybe I see what writers didn't put in there? Maybe I should take it superficially as it looks on a first sight? My head is a mess right now. )))) Sorry about this pessimistic rant. I'm confused. I just often see how many people interpret the show in a completely different way than I do - like they think Caroline being a good friend to Elena in the last Ep and reminding her what kind of person she is supposed to be! And then we have JP defending Caro on twitter - which backs up their perception and not mine. # confused
Arabian: Elena01arabian on December 4th, 2013 08:38 pm (UTC)
Most people that I've spoken people who watch the show not in depth prefer Damon/Elena to Stefan/Elena. Most people don't think Stefan is this great guy, they see him like we do. Most people do see the issues with Stefan. JP always defends her characters crazily. Always. She's the WORST at PR. Always ignore JP. She's the worst at PR like EVER. And when it comes to the sire bond you have to remember something... Elena had feelings for Damon BEFORE she became a vampire.

Do you HONESTLY believe that hairdressers/stylists are going to know the endgame of this show -- when Julie Plec is crazy concerned about small spoilers? -- a year and a half before it actually ends? Of course not.
Alisha: Spuffy 147kalishaka on October 14th, 2014 12:01 am (UTC)
I know I started rambling about this to you on the phone, but seriously, I cannot deal with what Caroline says to Elena in this episode. Had it happened a season earlier maybe, but there is no excuse. She was not just attacking Damon with her words, she was attacking Elena. It was harsh. It was unnecessary. And it was not the words of someone who claims they are your best friend. And especially not of someone who cheers on the regular for Stefan. Because while I know she sees Stefan in a much more positive light, both of them have a looooot of red on their ledger. She should have grown enough as a character at this point to know their world is all shades of grey, and then as dark as it is she should embrace anything that makes her friends happy and healthy.

My Stefan/Katherine shipping soul returned in full force. Oh god, it was amazing. Everything about it was perfect. I want to roll around in the beauty of it. And oh god, the parallels. I was not even prepared for that. It made it all so much better. She got to him. He broke through to her. And she goes and brings out the savior in him while he brings out the survivor in her. I just want to wax poetic about it for a year or two. Is that allowed? I don't even want to talk about anything else.....

Oh wait...The Initiative, I mean Augustine. While on one hand I am excited about the possibilities for this storyline, on the other hand, the Buffy parallels are off the charts right now. And yes, it's not entirely rare to have the idea of scientists wanting to work on something that is alien or monstrous to transform it into something else, I think it is the vampires plus college plus professor who is secretly testing on his own students that has me giving it a bit of a really?

Despite that though, I love that they are seemingly attaching it to an unknown moment in Damon's life, filling his story in if you will. I enjoy that it is going to bring Damon a bit more front and center for this season. I'm intrigued to know how long it has been happening and where it all connects. And I like that despite the fact they are now removed from Mystic Falls, there is still a tie to the past with Elena's father. The continued legacy. It pleases me.