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16 November 2013 @ 09:24 am
5.07 - 'Death and the Maiden' (The Vampire Diaries)  
Saturday morning and I'm finally getting my Vampire Diaries write-up done. Phew! Good episode. :)

I was talking to a friend about the show and had said that I thought it was a very strong episode and that I had only one issue with it. And then I proceeded to rant about that one issue, blah, blah, blah. Later, I added bits and pieces of that rant to my previously jotted down notes for my post. And then I rewatched the episode. When I got to that section, I was prepared to get annoyed anew, girded with my self-righteous indignation all set on high, but it deflated pretty damn quickly because I had forgotten a few key things when venting about my one issue. So I'm going to address that first because my friend had the same problem and there may be others out there who were bothered by it as well. And, hey, this might help; it certainly helped me and now I'm pretty much walking away with this episode 98% happy. (The 2% we'll discuss in a bit and it has nothing to do with the writing or direction of this particular episode.)

So towards the latter half of the episode, Elena tells Stefan that he probably knows her better than anyone else. And *that* is what upset me. I mean, really? That's just BS. What about her brother? Or Matt? Bonnie, Caroline? Hello?! And, yeah, Damon? Hell, even putting that aside, saying something like that in front of her BOYFRIEND?!?!? with his Stefan-shaped issues–especially involving Elena–and then putting THAT aside, there's the fact that there wasn't even a reaction shot from Damon after Elena said that. Just no. So wrong.

OK, so that's what I thought after watching the episode once, ranting to my friend about it 24 hours later and then jotting thoughts down post-rant. After rewatching the episode, I picked up on a few things I had noticed the first go-round but forgot and/or missed the significance of when thinking back upon the episode. Namely: Stefan was rather a jerk to Elena to begin with. She was doing her whole, 'I'm stubborn, I'm not giving up ever' about bringing Bonnie back and Stefan was like 'duh, are you even listening?' in a fairly insulting tone.

*That* was when Elena turned to him and was like, 'uhm, dude, you got your memories back, you know me, probably better than anyone, you know I won't give up.' And, yes, the actual words (not my take on them, LOL) were sweet, but the tone, her expression and body language all read 'dude, you are such an ass. You know me. Hey, I never gave up on you despite all the shit you pulled, hello! Kindly sit down and shut the fuck up.'

It wasn't about 'oh, Stefan, you know my heart and soul above all others' and angels descended from high and crowned their love with glory. It was 'Stefan, stop being a dick, do a little recall and get with the fucking program.' THAT is why she said it and THAT is why we didn't get a reaction shot from Damon. He got exactly where she was coming from and exactly what her point was. She was pissed at Stefan and she was reminding him of whom she was which she wouldn't have to do if she actually believed that he knew her better than anyone else.

However, we *did* get a Damon reaction shot… after Stefan's next comment when he continued to be a jerky-boy telling Elena that she put her hope in the wrong things and wrong people. Looking towards Damon. Tsk, tsk. Oh, Stefan. So, I take back my one issue with the episode. Yay! Leaving us with a perfect episode pretty much. Double yay! My 2% lay with the fact that I still am getting a wee tired of the lack of Damon/Elena-ness and the focus on Stefan/Elena even if it's not romantic with them. However, while that (along with the lack of Damon and Stefan interaction) bothered me mostly throughout the episode, I actually was OK with it by the end because of the last couple of scenes. *But* if this continues through the next episode, I am done being understanding.

The one thing that cannot be corrected is Olga Fonda. Casting people, why, why, why did you cast her? Ugh. She is just terrible. Katherine Pierce would never, never, NEVER have a daughter that lame. Just not possible. Elena Gilbert would never be the offspring of a great-great-great-x-mother whatever that lame. Just not possible. I demand a DNA test. Wait, screw it. It can be corrected. I don't care. Recast Nadia. Please. I'll take it. Fonda is so bad. She's just so bad. Ugh. At least she's heading out to Prague for a while and we'll hopefully be spared her "acting" for a while.

OK, no more complaints since everything else was soooo good. Starting with the other new casting addition this season that we sadly also lost this episode and even more unfortunately will not be getting back. (Why couldn't they have cast Janina Gavankar as Nadia?!?!?) Quetsiyah/Tessa is no more. Waaah! Excuse me while I sob in the corner. {SOB} Yes, we might see her on the other side and flashbacks, so there's a chance she'll come back, but still, the chances are slim. *sigh* I know she's a petty, vindictive, awful, terrible, selfish person. I know this. I don't care. She's fictional, so I don't care. I LOVE HER!

I also love Katherine and Caroline together. I loved their little moment where they acknowledged that Katherine murdered Caroline and they hate each other, but it was so obvious that they did kinda bond. Aww, I loved that. So, you know, at first I kinda thought that Katherine was leaving Mystic Falls, but I guess she's not, so that's good (maybe we'll get more Caroline/Katherine scenes!!!), but what's gonna happen with her whole aging thing? (Ooh, kudos to florencia7, she called that in last week's comments.) I wonder if she's gonna try and get Bonnie to help her. But what could possibly ever compel Bonnie to help Katherine? Hmm…

Ooh, speaking of Bonnie. So… yeah. Bonnie's getting a haircut next week. If you didn't see the previews, it's cute and sassy. Oh, yeah, I guess we should probably talk about the whole anchoring thingie. Yeah. Obviously there had to be a twist. Ouchie. Of course, previously mentioned petty, vindictive, awful, terrible, selfish Tessa wasn't gonna mention that whole little bit about the excruciating pain that Bonnie was going to undergo on a regular basis whenever a supernatural baddie passes through her.* Poor Bonnie. But, hey, she's here, even if that's no way to live, so I'm guessing by season's end, she is going to either be pulled completely to one side or the other, probably the living side (better be the living side).

*Hmm, I wonder if this will cut down on Damon's casual killing of supernatural baddies?

Still, she's here. It was one of those predictable things. We knew it was gonna work. But it was a lovely earned moment, when Jeremy reached out and then they realized they could feel each other, then Elena calling her name cuz she and Caroline see her! Awww. The girls embracing, Caroline being Caroline and going on about their original college plans and in perfect unison Elena and Bonnie saying her name. Just, ugh, so perfect!

Also perfect—although I didn't realize it was perfect until the final scenes featuring the trio—was how the Damon/Elena/Stefan dynamic is being handled. (I just want to make a note here as I often do in episodes written by Rebecca Sonnenshine that I love her beautiful character writing.) In last week's write-up, an anon poster mentioned her frustration with the lack of Damon/Stefan interaction and how the show was missing out on taking advantage of some good brother bonding. I argued that it made narrative sense at this point and that we had time still to explore them. While watching most of the Stefan/Elena scenes and during the dearth of Damon/Stefan scenes this episode, I found myself thinking about that discussion and thought that her point was valid here and we should be seeing Damon trying to draw Stefan out. And then we got the last batch of scenes.

We had Elena actually having to tell Damon that Stefan was on the edge because Damon didn't realize it, or couldn't allow himself to realize it. Damon's face when Stefan looked past Elena and said "both of you," that he wanted her and Damon to find him just so clicked with me. We've heard Elena say over and over how guilty she feels about having the summer of her life while Stefan was in that safe drowning over and over again, while we've only heard Damon even hint at that guilt once. But we know how deeply Damon can and does feel guilt and yet no one—not even Elena, because she's too busy feeling her own—has taken into account how deeply scarred Damon is by what happened. Because it's not just that he had this amazing summer while Stefan suffered horribly. Damon had this amazing summer with a girl that totally wrongly so but one that Damon still considers Stefan's girl at heart… while Stefan suffered horribly. So Damon doesn't know how to act with his brother.

And on top of that, this is a totally new situation for them. Damon's never been the victor. He's never been "the chosen one." It's always been Stefan. So that's why he's keeping his distance. And it all came into focus for me in that scene with Elena when she asked him to go look for Stefan and then the one when Stefan admitted he wanted them to find him. The dynamic is completely off-kilter. He took his girl, he didn't save him and he's the winner, Stefan's the loser. In a 170 years, it's NEVER been this way. When it comes to Stefan, Damon feels confused, a bit lost and guilty. He doesn't know how to act with his brother anymore.

And then there were the Stefan/Elena scenes. Until that scene with Stefan and Elena towards the end, I was frustrated with her being all peppy and so determined to help him. It's like, ugh! he's not your boyfriend anymore, Elena. He's not your responsibility. But then in the end she flat-out admitted that it was entirely for selfish reasons. She felt guilty because she was so happy during the summer, she was so in love with Damon, and now she had Bonnie back, all she needed was Stefan to be better so that she could reclaim her happiness about her perfect summer without any regret. She wanted Stefan to be better so she could be happy about her summer of love with Damon. So her helping Stefan was all about Damon.

However, now that we have that set-up done. Now that we have Stefan more or less back in place as normal and we can begin to deal with the fall-out of the summer… can we have Damon and Elena now? Please? I hope so. Because it's time. The pieces are in place now. We can start building to good stuff here. I mean, I think… I could be totally wrong, but I think we could be heading towards a blow-up of sorts within the triangle and Stefan could have some eruption of rage. Damon and Elena (understandably) have been keeping their relationship on the backburner lately because of all of this going on, however things are more or less going back to "normal" now. And Elena is going back to school so they'll have some separation, thus when she comes back, passionate reunions will ensure. Tessa did make that comment about the three of them living in that big house together so I could see that being a little hint of a stirring of the pot. On top of that we have Stefan's vampire-heightened emotions reaching a boiling point, as mentioned by Silas, so, yes, I could see things blowing up big-time in the next couple of episodes. It is November sweeps…

Alrighty, random thoughts …

- Aww, we had a few moments of Damon and Elena finishing each other's sentences. Double aww.

- Heh, I liked that Elena is confident and has enough sass in her now to show-off to Katherine that she can take a little pain (in the bloodletting scene). Hehehe.

- "The cute one's here." Oh, Katherine, never change.

- Wow. Three Nina's. Yeah. Wow. Amara was as different from Katherine as Katherine is from Elena as Elena is from Amara and so on and so forth. Fantastic job. I mean just look at this image here. Same actress, but the body language in just the stance of the three characters is completely different. Amazing.

     

- That opening scene with Silas and the couple was HI-larious. Awful, of course, but HI-larious. As I've mentioned before, it took four episodes (more counting last season) for the writers and Paul Wesley to make Silas feel like a legitimate, stand-on-its-own-character, but Silas finally became a real boy and he sure was fun. And now he's gone. Ah well. At least Tessa is happy. {SOBS *My Tessa!*}

- Ah, we didn't see them interact much (although, whee! Jeremy was sitting on the couch next to Damon when they he told him and Elena about the plan to anchor Bonnie), but there was this moment that I loved. When Bonnie went to tell Jeremy that it wasn't going to work because Amara was dying, Jeremy's response was an incredulous "that's impossible. Damon's—" And I literally had to choke back a giggle despite the seriousness of the moment because I love Jeremy's hero-worship for Damon. I love that Jeremy believes that if Damon is doing something to stop it, then of course it's impossible for that thing to not work. And of course Jeremy was right.

- So yeah, the doppelganger's deal is clearly is that if they are meant to do anything, it is to end in tragedy, uh huh. I mean, Silas and Amara started it all and their ending was kinda reminiscent of Romeo and Juliet and that was a tragedy, folks. Yeah. But, man, she didn't even die in Silas' arms. Or even his doppelganger's. She was in Damon's.

- I liked that this time (for the first freaking time!) everyone played their part: Elena got Tessa back into the mix to finish the spell, kept her from dying after Silas tried to kill her. Caroline brought Katherine to the party. Damon kept Amara alive long enough for the spell to be completed. Stefan (yes, Stefan!!) killed Silas. Go team!

- Hmm, the Jeremy/Bonnie fireplace kiss was staged almost identical to the Damon/Elena fireplace kiss. Intentional or just a nice, romantic shot? Jeremy following in pseudo-mommy/daddy's footsteps? Things that make you go hmmm…

- I liked that Stefan just simply admitted, even though it was selfish, that he wanted it to be Elena and Damon to find him in the safe. It wasn't done to guilt them; it was done without embellishment. It was just an honest admission that showed Stefan allowing himself to be seen (evne to Elena) as not perfect, not the "good brother," just himself, honestly and without pretense. I thought it was a really good first step at just being Stefan… the real Stefan.

- Katherine to Dr. Maxfield–"just personality," LOL! Again, Katherine, never change.

- Aha, so now we know. If a vampire's blood won't heal Katherine, a vampire's bite wouldn't work to turn her either. Yeah, she's gonna be talking to Bonnie, ain't she? What is she going to do?!! (TALK TO MATT!!! I know that won't solve anything, but my inexplicable Katherine/Matt shipping remains, OK!)

- Speaking of… MATT!! Three episodes without my Matty!! Wah! Well, sigh, at least they are getting all of the Matt-less episodes out of the way now.

- Oh, Damon, you crafty, sexy boy. I loved him playing Tessa with the whole 'You were right about the doppelgangers always ending up together. How does it feel to say I told you so' spiel, knowing it was the thing to say to get her to help them. Damon knows how to play people like fiddles. He's such a master.

- So it wasn't a twist ending, we knew it was still gonna effect him. It was more of an emotional gut-punch, but since Stefan isn't exactly the show's most popular character, I think the Stefan-overload needs to kinda start underloading any episode now. Just saying. I love him, but I need a wee bit more Damon and I know others definitely do.

- So what's gonna happen with Jesse? Come on, show, don't leave me in suspense. I do like Jesse.

- Caroline looks soooo pretty in yellow.

- I love this episode title.

- Yes, I know, no gifs this week. Give me Damon/Elena, I'll give you gifs, dangit!

So this was a REALLY fantastic episode. Like most of Rebecca Sonnenshine episodes, a rewatch enhances the viewing. The first time around it's a strong episode, subsequent viewings just improve it tenfold over and over. Strong characterization, tight narrative and just superb all-around. Loved it. (Now give me some Damon/Elena next week and I'll be a VERY happy camper!)
 
 
 
bangel_4e: damonbangel_4e on November 16th, 2013 02:55 pm (UTC)
I understand the initial irritation about the Elena quote to Stefan. And I was too at first. I rolled my eyes and sighed. BUT I thought about what they were doing and Elena was trying to convince Stefan to get him on their side, to include him in the plan. So she played his memories..."you know me" and stuff. Even if probably doesn't realize Damon knows her better than Stefan (he sees, gets and accepts every side of her, not only the angelic ones)...but that is also ok. He means a lot to her, they spent lots of time in a relationship and shared lots of situations where Elena showed him how she cares and will stop at nothing to save her loved ones. That's why she said those words.
And like you, I expected a look from Damon at first. But a different look came later when Stefan acted like a jerk. Really? You put your hope in the wrong people, looking at Damon? Ah, that's rich coming from him. I like Stefan, but he's got issues he has to resolve.


He got exactly where she was coming from and exactly what her point was. She was pissed at Stefan and she was reminding him of whom she was which she wouldn't have to do if she actually believed that he knew her better than anyone else.

I saw it as a positive thing, as you did. She's not hiding anything and that makes me even more convinced that what she said really doesn't mean anything. When she was with Stefan, most of her moments with Damon didn't take place in front of Stefan (and they were hinting at a future, instead of a past presented here).
And yep, overall it was all about reminding him and getting him on board with the plan to protect Amara.

That being said, YES, I would also like to see more Damon/Elena focus, rathen that friendship Stelena. As you said, it is time now. And I feel like we're gonna get to them. As of now, we had little moments through quotes, like what Elena said about being in love, the summer of her dreams...wow, just f*cking wow.
And this ties back to Elena feeling guilty and the need she as to *heal* Stefan, to get him back to normal. You know, I wasn't pissed she was trying to help him because, first of all, that's who Elena is (with everyone) and then I knew she was overwhelmed by guilt. She broke up with him, slept with his brother and happily played house while he was going through unspeakable pain. I thought Elena was so selfish in that scene: telling him she needs him to be ok because she feels too guilty.

And the whole Stefan/Damon relationship. Finally Damon's guilt is there (even if it was pretty clear he felt guilty but, as Damon is, never fully showed it) and Ian killed it with a single look, really.

Damon had this amazing summer with a girl that totally wrongly so but one that Damon still considers Stefan's girl at heart… while Stefan suffered horribly. So Damon doesn't know how to act with his brother
When it comes to Stefan, Damon feels confused, a bit lost and guilty. He doesn't know how to act with his brother anymore.
Wonderfully put. It is so Damon and he clearly doesn't know what do to. I'd also like to have a little more focus on them in the next episodes.


Tessa: I loved her too..even if she was completely crazy and stuff. You know, she said one thing towards the end that I found so beautiful and so telling to the whole season. We're hearing 100 times during one episode that Stefan and Elena are destined to be together (much like the sirebond thing) and Tessa was the one who actually brought it up in the first place. And then she's dying, not allowing Amara and Silas to be together, saying: "True love prevails, universe be damned".
Honestly, I thought that was SOOOOO amazing. I have so much faith in Damon and Elena, even more than I had before.
Arabian: Damon & Elena20arabian on November 17th, 2013 08:19 am (UTC)
Even if probably doesn't realize Damon knows her better than Stefan

No, I think she does realize it. She was reminding Stefan of who she was with what she said to him, and she wouldn't have to do that if she actually believed that Stefan knew her. She never has to remind Damon.

When she was with Stefan, most of her moments with Damon didn't take place in front of Stefan (and they were hinting at a future, instead of a past presented here).

Yup, other than the stuff in the memory lane episode (which was all about putting Stefan and Elena in the past) the Stefan/Elena stuff has been in front of Damon.

As of now, we had little moments through quotes, like what Elena said about being in love, the summer of her dreams...wow, just f*cking wow.

YUP!

I thought Elena was so selfish in that scene: telling him she needs him to be ok because she feels too guilty.

She was very selfish, but it also was another sign that she's not in love with Stefan. She's not thinking of him anymore. She's not thinking of his feelings anymore, she's not thinking about protecting him. This is about her, her and Damon. This is about protecting what they have, their relationship.

And the whole Stefan/Damon relationship. Finally Damon's guilt is there (even if it was pretty clear he felt guilty but, as Damon is, never fully showed it) and Ian killed it with a single look, really.

It was a gut-wrencher, that's for sure.

I'd also like to have a little more focus on them in the next episodes.

I think it's coming; I really do.

You know, she said one thing towards the end that I found so beautiful and so telling to the whole season. We're hearing 100 times during one episode that Stefan and Elena are destined to be together (much like the sirebond thing) and Tessa was the one who actually brought it up in the first place. And then she's dying, not allowing Amara and Silas to be together, saying: "True love prevails, universe be damned."

I kept thinking of that too and it's kinda the same thing as Damon said. It's not about fate; it's choice. It's about choosing your own destiny. Silas was moving heaven and earth to be with Amara. Amara could have had lived on earth with Silas, but she chose death over loving him. And Tessa outsmarted destiny. Once again, on The Vampire Diaries, it's all about choice, and Damon already said that he wasn't letting the Universe choose. He was choosing Elena, and Elena was down with that.
bangel_4e: delena1bangel_4e on November 17th, 2013 08:09 pm (UTC)
she wouldn't have to do that if she actually believed that Stefan knew her. She never has to remind Damon.

That's true..very, very true.


I think it's coming; I really do.
Yeah, it's about time and I'm very excited to see what's gonna happen in the next couple of episodes.

I kept thinking of that too and it's kinda the same thing as Damon said. It's not about fate; it's choice. It's about choosing your own destiny. Silas was moving heaven and earth to be with Amara. Amara could have had lived on earth with Silas, but she chose death over loving him. And Tessa outsmarted destiny. Once again, on The Vampire Diaries, it's all about choice, and Damon already said that he wasn't letting the Universe choose. He was choosing Elena, and Elena was down with that.
Absolutely.
bangel_4e: delena3bangel_4e on November 16th, 2013 03:01 pm (UTC)
Sorts of random stuff.


Katherine: As always, I love this girl SO much. She's my favorite and will always be.
And kudos to Nina , she's perfect in her interpretations. Really, intonation...body language...walking...everything. She really nailed it.

Stefan: I liked that Stefan just simply admitted, even though it was selfish, that he wanted it to be Elena and Damon to find him in the safe. It wasn't done to guilt them; it was done without embellishment. It was just an honest admission that showed Stefan allowing himself to be seen (evne to Elena) as not perfect, not the "good brother," just himself, honestly and without pretense. I thought it was a really good first step at just being Stefan… the real Stefan.
Agreed.

But, man, she didn't even die in Silas' arms. Or even his doppelganger's. She was in Damon's.
Yep, yep.

Hmm, the Jeremy/Bonnie fireplace kiss was staged almost identical to the Damon/Elena fireplace kiss. Intentional or just a nice, romantic shot? Jeremy following in pseudo-mommy/daddy's footsteps? Things that make you go hmmm
I noticed that too. And it looked so intentional to me. Endgame, maybe?? ;)

Boonie: she's back and she's gonna suffer unspeakable pain. Of course. Tessa didn't even mention that lol She's definitely gonna be on one side or the other at the end of the season.

And I also think we're gonna go towards a blow-up or something big. Concerning Stefan and his rage...and WHO is that one that pulled him out? Tessa said it was her when Stefan remember it was a bold man. Why show that if it's not important?? Uhm.
Matt: Ghidorahghidorah15 on November 16th, 2013 05:14 pm (UTC)
Tessa explained in Episode Three that the bald man was the owner of the cabin she'd secured. She bespelled him to get Stefan out of the safe.
bangel_4e: delena3bangel_4e on November 17th, 2013 12:16 am (UTC)
Really? Wow, I totally erased that from my mind lol Thanks! :)
Matt: Ghidorahghidorah15 on November 17th, 2013 12:54 am (UTC)
Nada problem.
Arabian: Damon & Elena32arabian on November 17th, 2013 08:23 am (UTC)
Remember the end of the 2nd episode? It wasn't actually Damon and Elena macking on each other in the college courtyard, LOL! After the phone call interruptus from Liz, they were in the forest opening the safe and finding the dead dude there that was not Stefan.
bangel_4e: elena3bangel_4e on November 17th, 2013 08:10 pm (UTC)
Yes, I remember that part at the end...I just totally forgot about the bald guy :)
Arabian: Stefan01arabian on November 17th, 2013 08:21 am (UTC)
And kudos to Nina , she's perfect in her interpretations. Really, intonation...body language...walking...everything. She really nailed it.

Agreed. She did a fantastic job!

Re: Bonnie/Jeremy kiss. Endgame, maybe?? ;)

I had that thought too. :)

and WHO is that one that pulled him out? Tessa said it was her when Stefan remember it was a bold man. Why show that if it's not important?? Uhm.

Already mentioned, but yeah, that's the dead guy that was in the safe when Liz showed it to Damon/Elena. He owned the cabin that Tessa was staying in where she first kept Stefan in.
bangel_4e: buffybangel_4e on November 17th, 2013 08:03 pm (UTC)
Already mentioned, but yeah, that's the dead guy that was in the safe when Liz showed it to Damon/Elena. He owned the cabin that Tessa was staying in where she first kept Stefan in.

Yeah, I totally erased that part from by brain lol

Edited at 2013-11-17 08:03 pm (UTC)
Bogwitch: TVD - Damon Won't Tellbogwitch on November 16th, 2013 09:50 pm (UTC)
There wasn't enough Damon in this one for me. It was good, I enjoyed it, but I pretty much forgot about it after watching. And I must rewatch, because I don't remember a lot of the bits you've commented on!

I doubt that Nadia is going anywhere, else that is a rather short storyline.

Everyone is assuming Silas is dead, but I thought he went 'into' Stefan at the end. I must have got that wrong then!

>>Hmm, the Jeremy/Bonnie fireplace kiss was staged almost identical to the Damon/Elena fireplace kiss. Intentional or just a nice, romantic shot? Jeremy following in pseudo-mommy/daddy's footsteps? Things that make you go hmmm….

I noticed that, it was a bit weird.

>>Three episodes without my Matty!!

Yay!
Arabian: Damon09arabian on November 17th, 2013 08:31 am (UTC)
There wasn't enough Damon in this one for me.

You know I thought that at first, but when I rewatched it, I actually found that he was in it more than I remembered. I think it's because plot-wise, he wasn't in it much, but he was in it more than I remembered.

It was good, I enjoyed it, but I pretty much forgot about it after watching. And I must rewatch, because I don't remember a lot of the bits you've commented on!

Like I said, Rebecca Sonnenshine episodes really shine upon rewatch. She's a very subtle writer and her work gets better and better upon rewatch. Other than "The Five," all of her episodes I enjoy more and more upon further viewings, and to be fair that one is better with subsequent viewings too. And the issues with that one are solely down to the god-awful direction.

I doubt that Nadia is going anywhere, else that is a rather short storyline.

Oh, I know she's coming back. Not just for Katherine, but because of the Matt/Gregor storyline. But she said she's going to Prague, so I'll enjoy her absense because she's bloody awful.

Everyone is assuming Silas is dead, but I thought he went 'into' Stefan at the end. I must have got that wrong then!

Yeah, no, he's dead. Stefan killed him. Stefan was just having flashbacks. I do think it's signalling the beginning of Stefan dealing the fall-out of his summer vacation.
(Anonymous) on November 16th, 2013 09:59 pm (UTC)
I loved this episode a lot. I was a bit bummed out over the lack of Delena, but once Stefan said that he wanted both Elena and Damon to have been there when he got out of the quarry, I was happy. Because at first I thought that this scene would once again be about Stefan and Elena, but I really loved how it became about the brothers too. And I loved how real Stefan seemed. I really hope this is the beginning of a change for him. And now dear writers, please give us some Delena!

There is just one thing that bothered me about the plot. Bonnie has died and gone to the other side. On her way there, she must have passed through Amara, so shouldn't she have known about that? Matt and Jeremy have passed through her quite a few times as well. But I assume it's something you immediately forget once you are dead, because otherwise none of this makes sense. Anyway, we have great writers, so I am sure they will explain this eventually. :)

And I agree about Olga Fonda. It could have been such an incredible scene when she begged Katherine to go with her, but thanks to her awful acting I felt nothing at all for her character. It's a pity.

Quetsiya/Tessa is no more. Waaah! Excuse me while I sob in the corner.

I KNOW! WHY DID SHE LEAVE? *sob*

And finally, I love reading your thoughts about the show. <3
Arabian: Damon04arabian on November 17th, 2013 08:44 am (UTC)
I loved this episode a lot.

It might be my favorite episode of the season. I'm not sure. I really liked last week too. But yeah it might be this week.

I was a bit bummed out over the lack of Delena, but once Stefan said that he wanted both Elena and Damon to have been there when he got out of the quarry, I was happy.

Yeah, it really put everything involving Damon/Elena, Damon/Stefan and Stefan/Elena into perspective. It explained to me why Elena was acting as she was with both brothers, and why the brothers were as they were and so narratively I was happy. Sure I want more Damon/Elena, but I want it to make sense. We'll get our Damon/Elena goodies, and we did get great stuff in the first three episodes. More stuff is coming, I'm sure.

But I assume it's something you immediately forget once you are dead, because otherwise none of this makes sense.

It's gotta be that.

I agree about Olga Fonda. It could have been such an incredible scene when she begged Katherine to go with her, but thanks to her awful acting I felt nothing at all for her character. It's a pity.

I know, ugh. Second storyline that's been soured by poor casting, but this takes the cake. I mean, Lauren Cohan isn't a bad actress, she's good, but she's not great. And the Damon arc in season 02 with Rose should have been OMG!Outstanding, but her lack of being awesome brought it down (I still think that Cassidy Freeman, Sage, would have been perfect), but this takes it to a whole new level. Another should be brilliant story jettisoned by casting, and in this case, it's just horrible, terrible, no-good casting. Ugh!

I KNOW! WHY DID SHE LEAVE? *sob*

We can mourn together!!!!

And finally, I love reading your thoughts about the show. <3

Aww, thank you! :D

(Anonymous) on November 17th, 2013 07:22 am (UTC)
What happened to Stefan at the end? I didn't get that part just that him/voices saying that it isn't over. I'm really lost there? I don't think Nadia is going away. We still have the Gregor/Matt plot and she surely is part of it.
My observation, maybe I'm wrong - Elena saying that she got what she wanted during summer - being in love etc - since she also never openly confessed to Stefan or to anyone else that she was in love in him and made I'm in love confession only to Damon and others about Damon, does that mean she only has ever been in love with Damon? Am I too wishful?
Yeah Delena has been a bit side-lined lately and hopefully that will change. I'm however worried it will be negative once they come out front again in a sense that there will be external circumstances that will affect their relationship and it won't be smooth and there will be drama in their lives. I will hope for a bit of happy times for a while.
Thank you for your review and apologies about my comment. My words are everywhere.
Arabian: Damon & Elena31arabian on November 17th, 2013 08:49 am (UTC)
What happened to Stefan at the end? I didn't get that part just that him/voices saying that it isn't over. I'm really lost there?

Stefan kept getting flashbacks to what happened to him over the summer, drowning, Silas taunting him and basically all the horrible mental anguish he went through. He had hoped that by killing Silas he could mentally cleanse himself of that pain. But it didn't work, he's still falling apart emotionally. He's wrecked.

I don't think Nadia is going away. We still have the Gregor/Matt plot and she surely is part of it.

She told Katherine she is going to Prague for a few months. I'm sure she'll be back, but she did say that she was going away for a few months.

My observation, maybe I'm wrong - Elena saying that she got what she wanted during summer - being in love etc - since she also never openly confessed to Stefan or to anyone else that she was in love in him and made I'm in love confession only to Damon and others about Damon, does that mean she only has ever been in love with Damon? Am I too wishful?

She actually did tell Damon that she was in love with Stefan when they were at the Lakehouse in 4.09. She mentioned it in past tense, but she did say it. It may have been the only time she said it, but she did say it then. I think we were supposed to think that, yeah, she was in love with Stefan once upon a time, so, no, it's not the first time with Damon. The thing is that she's NOT in love with Stefan now.

Yeah Delena has been a bit side-lined lately and hopefully that will change. I'm however worried it will be negative once they come out front again in a sense that there will be external circumstances that will affect their relationship and it won't be smooth and there will be drama in their lives. I will hope for a bit of happy times for a while.

I think we'll get some more happy times, but we are going to get rough times too because that's how tv works. Don't expect anything else, that's not how TV works, LOL! I just have faith that it will true to who they are as characters, and they will weather through it all.

Thank you for your review and apologies about my comment. My words are everywhere.

No apolgies, I love that you commented. :)
tj2013tj2013 on November 17th, 2013 03:03 pm (UTC)
Great analysis of a great episode. Thanks!!
And I will rewatch it, as you recommended. Sounds really the right thing to do with the "Sonnenshine-episodes".

Wow, three Ninas. She was awesome. Take three different actresses and it couldn't have been any better. She makes Kat so much fun to watch. Her delivery of Kat's snarky one-liners are as good as Ian's.

I had the same feeling about Stefan and Delena. Stefan wanted the two people who he loves most (maybe he can love Caroline in the future, but right now it's Damon and Elena) to open the safe. Totally understandable and in character with the last Damon-Stefan scene from 4x23.
I would love to see more DE-passion, the typical heat between them during the following episodes. But as you said, I think they are going there. We just have to be patient. Ugh... not my strong suit, though... LOL.

I was kinda bummed by the fireplace kiss. For me the fireplace is - like the Gilbert porch - a "DE-place" and I don't want anyone else there kissing. Ahem. But I have to admit, Jer and Bonnie are cute. Still ... I am wondering if their love will prevail. Except for season 2, where Jeremy made the first moves towards Bonnie, I had the impression that she loves him more than he loves her. But that's just my feeling. Maybe their love - conquering death multiple times - will be one of the endgames of the show.

Can we please have now more Matt and Caroline? Please? Oh.. and more Jesse. I liked him.

Since the Silas-Tessa-stuff is out of the way now, I am very curious of the following storylines ans Stefan's arc in particular.

What else? More DE. Of course. But I guess I mentioned that already. LOL.
faith5by5_1013faith5by5_1013 on November 17th, 2013 09:25 pm (UTC)
And then there were the Stefan/Elena scenes. Until that scene with Stefan and Elena towards the end, I was frustrated with her being all peppy and so determined to help him. It's like, ugh! he's not your boyfriend anymore, Elena. He's not your responsibility. But then in the end she flat-out admitted that it was entirely for selfish reasons. She felt guilty because she was so happy during the summer, she was so in love with Damon, and now she had Bonnie back, all she needed was Stefan to be better so that she could reclaim her happiness about her perfect summer without any regret. She wanted Stefan to be better so she could be happy about her summer of love with Damon. So her helping Stefan was all about Damon.

I wasn't bothered by that in the first place. I think it was partly selfish feelings of guilt and partly that that's just what she does for the people she cares about. She's not with Stefan anymore, but she still cares about him as a friend.

Wow. Three Nina's. Yeah. Wow. Amara was as different from Katherine as Katherine is from Elena as Elena is from Amara and so on and so forth. Fantastic job. I mean just look at this image here. Same actress, but the body language in just the stance of the three characters is completely different. Amazing.

Agreed!

So yeah, the doppelganger's deal is clearly is that if they are meant to do anything, it is to end in tragedy, uh huh. I mean, Silas and Amara started it all and their ending was kinda reminiscent of Romeo and Juliet and that was a tragedy, folks. Yeah. But, man, she didn't even die in Silas' arms. Or even his doppelganger's. She was in Damon's.

*nods happily*

Edited at 2013-11-17 09:25 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Petrovas01arabian on November 18th, 2013 06:06 am (UTC)
I wasn't bothered by that in the first place. I think it was partly selfish feelings of guilt and partly that that's just what she does for the people she cares about. She's not with Stefan anymore, but she still cares about him as a friend.

But there's a line, and I felt that Elena crossed it way too much with Stefan considering the circumstances. I just thought it was too much to begin with, her coming into his bedroom, sitting on his bed, all huggy with him on his bed. Just too much.
faith5by5_1013: Other: Brain Canonfaith5by5_1013 on November 18th, 2013 12:47 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I can see that sometimes she does cross that line with Stefan. I think she's very much trying to treat him like just a friend and sometimes she ignores the line in those attempts.
Arabian: Elena04arabian on November 19th, 2013 04:49 am (UTC)
Exactly and that was my initial problem.
Florencia: DE (5x04)florencia7 on November 18th, 2013 09:06 pm (UTC)
”Elena tells Stefan that he probably knows her better than anyone else.” - OHH Your analysis made me SO happy! That line upset me me too ^^ But now after reading your thoughts the context has changed for the better & the line makes perfect sense & it's not upsetting anymore.

I knew we'd lose Silas (and he kind of grew on me & I will actually miss him A LOT lol) & Amara sooner rather than later, but I actually hoped we wouldn't lose Tessa before the end of this season. I'm so sad that she is gone. Such an awesome character & you're right, Janina Gavankar would've made a FANTASTIC Nadia.

As for Katherine: apparently, she can't become a vampire again, so if she's going to stay human, maybe Stefan can become human too & we can have that lovely vamp!DE & human!SK endgame set up ;) Although I actually don't think Katherine will stay alive until the end of the show... And not only because all those hints pointing to Stefan/Caroline.

”Hmm, I wonder if this will cut down on Damon's casual killing of supernatural baddies?” - Aw! That's an interesting question indeed haha

”The dynamic is completely off-kilter.” - I LOVE all of your comments here.

I hope I'm wrong (because if I'm right I don't anticipate the situation to change soon lol), but I think the lack of DE scenes *may* be attributed to writers wishing to keep DE relationship interesting – or rather keeping the viewers excited about DE - by not giving us enough of them??

The 3 Ninas scene was amazing. I loved it too.

”Jeremy's response was an incredulous "that's impossible. Damon's—" And I literally had to choke back a giggle despite the seriousness of the moment” - ME TOO! ;D I loved loved loved that.

I think that there must be some significance to Jeremy/Bonnie fireplace kiss. It's such an iconic place, it couldn't possibly be just the matter of a pretty setting. Then again, as much as it is a very DE place, it's actually not THAT exclusive. Many Stefan/Damon scenes happened there, as well as Stefan/Caroline and even Rebekah was crying her eyes out there in 3x08 if I remember correctly? It just seems like a place where moments that are emotionally-heavy/significant happen.

Random question: What do you make of Quetsiya's claim that there were MANY doppelgangers in the past? At some point she even says that there was a pair of doppelgangers every century. Is she lying? Or is it just one of those inevitable running-TV-show-writing inconsistencies ;) Because it just seems unlikely that Klaus (or Elijah) would've never come across any doppelgangers except for Katherine. Not to mention that if doppelgangers have to be related, every other generation of S & E's families would include a doppelganger, which it clearly didn't.

Reading your thoughts is always THE HIGHLIGHT of my day ♥ ♥ ♥
Arabian: Stefan & Caroline07arabian on November 19th, 2013 04:48 am (UTC)
OHH Your analysis made me SO happy! That line upset me me too ^^ But now after reading your thoughts the context has changed for the better & the line makes perfect sense & it's not upsetting anymore.

Glad that worked for someone because it did really annoy me when I was thinking on it, but it really shouldn't have. Glad I could help someone else with it. :)

I actually hoped we wouldn't lose Tessa before the end of this season. I'm so sad that she is gone.

*sigh* Me too.

Such an awesome character & you're right, Janina Gavankar would've made a FANTASTIC Nadia.

Right?!??! Ah well.

Although I actually don't think Katherine will stay alive until the end of the show... And not only because all those hints pointing to Stefan/Caroline.

I agree. Or she'll wind up with Matt. (Where is this Matt/Human!Katherine shipping coming from!?!?)

I think the lack of DE scenes *may* be attributed to writers wishing to keep DE relationship interesting – or rather keeping the viewers excited about DE - by not giving us enough of them??

I don't think so because we don't need lack of scenes to make them interesting, they're always interesting when interacting. And narratively it makes sense how they're doing this right now.

Then again, as much as it is a very DE place, it's actually not THAT exclusive.

But kiss-wise, and kiss-filmed-wise, it is. That was my point.

What do you make of Quetsiya's claim that there were MANY doppelgangers in the past?

I dunno. I hope it comes up. I don't think it'd be unlikely that Klaus and Elijah would come across them. There are millions and millions and millions of people in the world. And if most of them aren't vamps, but just "normal" humans who live quiet lives, the Originals wouldn't know about them.
MaelJ0714: facemaelj0714 on November 19th, 2013 06:21 pm (UTC)
Such a great episode and a great review, too! Thank you so much for your write-ups.

I think a lot of people are having issues with things Elena’s said regarding Stefan and I’ll admit, the writers are a bit heavy-handed with it. (“You were the perfect boyfriend.” “You never scared me.” “You were always in control.”) It’s a lot like the sirebond and this whole doppelganger/universe. We are constantly being told things we know just aren’t true. Both of those issues were dealt with, and it will be interesting to see if something comes out of this, too. Maybe in Stefan’s journey to accepting who he really is. As you mentioned before, I’m just going to put my faith in the writers and see where they take us.

I’m glad you resolved the issue with Elena’s comment here and could enjoy the episode more. It was because she said it in regards to her never giving up on people that it worked for me, too. Because she is right. Of all people who know best that she never gives up on others, it should be Stefan. Countless times she’s forgiven him for unspeakable acts, even as far back as season one, and never gave up on the belief that the good in him would win over the bad. We had an entire season devoted to that. He has been the recipient of that more than anyone. And so I completely agree with you that it was done in a ‘chastising’ manner. She was letting him know that she wasn’t giving up on Bonnie any more than she did him.

I liked, too, that she was standing up to him, standing her ground, as she has done so many times with Damon. It shows she is coming into her own as a strong, mature woman.

And it was the same in the last scene. I loved that she is fighting for her happiness and feels deserving of it. You described this so perfectly. All she needed was Stefan to be better so that she could reclaim her happiness about her perfect summer without any regret. She wants him to be okay and absolve her of that guilt because that time with Damon is precious to her. She doesn’t want anything to taint it. She no longer wants to be that guilt-ridden girl who feels she’s the cause of everyone’s pain.

And, dammit, he should release her from that guilt because she deserves that from him. Not only has she forgiven him for countless horrible things (have I said that already?), but he left Mystic Falls of his own accord and against her wishes. She didn’t want to choose between the brothers at the end of season three because she knew she would lose the other. She needed both of them in her life. And Stefan knew that. Damon stayed to help her in her transition; but after she became adjusted to vampirism and accepted that she loved him, Stefan went back to the original plan. He left. She couldn’t have known that Bonnie died and broke the spell that bound Silas.

A couple of other thoughts –

- I really hope you are right about focus now on being Damon and Elena, and Stefan and his vampire-heightened emotions. As much as I love the other characters and their story-lines, the main trio really make the show.

- Hasn’t Paul Wesley been great in the last couple of episodes?! Man, the first scene with Silas was just awesome! And now that we finally have Awesome!Silas :D …. we have Dead!Silas. :(

- I don’t know why, but I loved the scenes with Damon and Amara. Just his gentle frustration with her in making his job keeping her alive that much harder. And that last scene with them? The way he pulled her into his body when trying to save her, their heads close together; how he bent low over her face pleading with her not to die, her eyes shining up into his – DANG!! I know that she and Silas were supposed to be ‘one true loves’ and their scene was beautiful, but I was just as moved by Damon and Amara.

- Why is it always Damon in these type scenes?? Maybe because he is just SO AMAZING?? :-P

- Nina as three different characters was incredible. Loved that pic – miss your .gifs!

- Kind of meh about Nadia, as well, but I am really beginning to like Dr. Maxfield. :) His scenes with Katherine (and Caroline last week) were very good.

- Our awesome Katherine on a granny scooter?? THAT should be interesting. ;)

Overall, another really good episode! Can’t wait to read your thoughts on the next one.
Arabian: Damon14arabian on November 24th, 2013 09:35 am (UTC)
i think a lot of people are having issues with things Elena’s said regarding Stefan and I’ll admit, the writers are a bit heavy-handed with it. (“You were the perfect boyfriend.” “You never scared me.” “You were always in control.”)

I still don't think it's an issue personally simply because it is true to Elena's character. She overlooks everything that other characters do that are horrible (including Damon) so why should Stefan be any different. And he does represent a specific factor in her life.

We are constantly being told things we know just aren’t true.

We are told things by certain characters, but we are VERY CLEARLY SHOWN the truth. THAT is good writing 101. That is something that the mark of excellent writing and I find it extremely frustrating that this day and age of viewership has been fed so much crap-junk writing that so many don't realize it. It's called SHOW-not-TELL writing. ANd TVD excels at it.

And, dammit, he should release her from that guilt because she deserves that from him. Not only has she forgiven him for countless horrible things (have I said that already?), but he left Mystic Falls of his own accord and against her wishes. She didn’t want to choose between the brothers at the end of season three because she knew she would lose the other. She needed both of them in her life. And Stefan knew that. Damon stayed to help her in her transition; but after she became adjusted to vampirism and accepted that she loved him, Stefan went back to the original plan. He left. She couldn’t have known that Bonnie died and broke the spell that bound Silas.

Exactly. And we know this because we've been shown this. We've seen this as viewers, we've watched this journey. We've seen it play out. Just because characters (who have their own agenda) say stuff we shouldn't take their words at face value, but instead should pay attention to EVERYTHING that the writers have shown us and take THAT at face value.

- I really hope you are right about focus now on being Damon and Elena, and Stefan and his vampire-heightened emotions. As much as I love the other characters and their story-lines, the main trio really make the show.

I hope we're going there; I really do.

- I don’t know why, but I loved the scenes with Damon and Amara. Just his gentle frustration with her in making his job keeping her alive that much harder. And that last scene with them? The way he pulled her into his body when trying to save her, their heads close together; how he bent low over her face pleading with her not to die, her eyes shining up into his – DANG!! I know that she and Silas were supposed to be ‘one true loves’ and their scene was beautiful, but I was just as moved by Damon and Amara.

Agreed.

Overall, another really good episode! Can’t wait to read your thoughts on the next one.

Sorry, I was so late with my thoughts. I'll do my best to get the next one out Thursday/Friday morning.
MaelJ0714: necklacemaelj0714 on November 25th, 2013 07:59 am (UTC)
She overlooks everything that other characters do that are horrible (including Damon) so why should Stefan be any different.

So true. And, while frustrating to watch at times, it makes for such great conversations! Which I think is exactly what the writers are going for. :-D

We are told things by certain characters, but we are VERY CLEARLY SHOWN the truth. THAT is good writing 101. That is something that the mark of excellent writing and I find it extremely frustrating that this day and age of viewership has been fed so much crap-junk writing that so many don't realize it. It's called SHOW-not-TELL writing. ANd TVD excels at it.


It astounds me just how good this show is, I have never been involved in a show so much. And upon rewatch, it just gets better.

Sorry, I was so late with my thoughts. I'll do my best to get the next one out Thursday/Friday morning.

Goodness, no, don't apologize!! You have (and should have) a life outside of doing these write-ups for all us TVD fans! I just can't tell you how much I appreciate your taking the time and effort to do them!
Arabian: Damon10arabian on December 1st, 2013 04:20 am (UTC)
And, while frustrating to watch at times, it makes for such great conversations! Which I think is exactly what the writers are going for.

Very true. The thing I suppose that frustrates me most though is how so many viewers seem to completely disregard this very truth though. They just focus on how she treats Stefan well as a sign that the writers are "fanservicing" S/E fans and ignore that this is IN CHARACTER for Elena and that Elena treats every character this well, and if she didn't that she and Damon wouldn't be together now because she never would have given him a chance.

You have (and should have) a life outside of doing these write-ups for all us TVD fans!

Yeah, but I've been just lazy in getting these done on time. I'm determined to get these up late Thursday evening/early Friday morning from now on for the most part now!
aurora7948/Celestial Aurora: Faerieaurora7948 on January 3rd, 2014 12:34 am (UTC)
Wow, ok. I'm just catching up on tVD and on your posts (life got too busy for Damon sexiness, it has been dark and sad times) and I only just watched this episode last night and read your posts today.

Maybe I overlooked this in the comments....but I don't think anyone has mentioned the whole thing about the *reason* that dopplegangers exist. The dopplegangers exist because they are the mortal balance to the immortal Silas and Amara. But those immortals are now dead....are Stefan and Elena the last of the dopplegangers to be created? Will they just be able to survive as is because of their vampire status? Or, now that the magic that made them supernatural as dopplegangers has been broken, will it somehow break other "magic" surrounding them (like the vampire "curse")?

And, also, Bonnie is now immortal.....will there be a "Bonnie" doppleganger? I mean, this plot in the show has always been all about balance. So, following that train of thought, she should end up with one. However, with her being a witch, is there a need, as witches are all about balance in this show anyway? Just curious to what you, and others, think.

Edited at 2014-01-03 12:45 am (UTC)
Alisha: Star Quality Pattikalishaka on October 13th, 2014 10:29 pm (UTC)
This episode was perfect. It was wonderful. It was everything! Oh my precious show, I was worried our love affair had come to an end for a while but no this was wonderful.

Figures that I would finally love Silas just in time for the episode in which he dies. While Paul had been slowly working out the kinks, this episode everything was working for him. Silas was perfect. Hilarious. Psychotic. And I completely understood him. Stefan was finally on point. The end scene actually broke my heart. Finally, Paul earned the focus and spotlight this season has put on him so far.

The explanation for Amara's insanity....poor girl. I cannot even imagine. And my beautiful, wonderful, completely unhinged Qetsiyah getting everything she wanted. I am pleased with this result. Even if she is now gone from me. And even if it sucks to be Bonnie right now.

I love your take on the Damon/Stefan situation. And it hurts. Because the person Stefan loves most in the world has always been his brother. The show has never tried to challenge that or deny it. There is no limit to what Stefan will do for Damon. And even if Stefan was hallucinating Damon in a negative light to Elena's positive life, he considers them both vital to his survival. He needs at least one to make it. Both to be happy. But to have neither....to be left and abandoned by both..is almost as bad a hell as being 'buried' alive for three months only to die over and over again. My Stefan love is strong right now. I hope they let all of this play out.

Katherine...oh my Katherine. On one hand, I'm bothered by how pointless bringing in her daughter seems at the moment. I expected more from the character and the idea. And there is a sentimental part of me that would have liked to have let Katherine leave with her, because if my Katherine has to die...at least it would be with the person that actually did matter most to her. But letting go without a fight just never was Katherine's style...so I expect everything to hurt and not in a good way on this front.