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11 October 2013 @ 06:28 am
5.02 - 'True Lies' (The Vampire Diaries)  
Another Thursday, another new episode of The Vampire Diaries. You know what that means! A lot of words and a lot of pretty gifs! WHEE!!!

I loved this episode, but I could like totally, totally adored it. I mean, I even preferred it to last week's fantastic episode, I loved it that much. Which is a pretty big surprise to me since last week was written by Caroline Dries, and she's my favorite TVD writer. This episode was penned by Brian Young and he's my least favorite writer on the show. Still, there were these key points that kept me from totally, totally adoring it and that pretty much is all down to why I don't like Young. (Still, I did really, really, really love it!)

However since I did (really, really, really) love so much of the episode I'm going to get what I didn't like out of the way before focusing on everything I did. Unfortunately, what I didn't like was wrapped up in parts of the Damon and Elena story. {insert pouty face here} I didn't like how there was an implication in Elena's words that since they were now in a romantic relationship, Damon shouldn't be lying to Elena… as if Damon had lied to her regularly in the past. Pfft!

Come on now! One of the key components of the Damon/Elena relationship – and one of my favorite things about that relationship – is that Damon doesn't lie to Elena. It was so key that when it happened it was so rare that it always stood out and Damon always ‘fessed up almost immediately. Because Damon doesn't lie to Elena, so the implication that Damon had lied to Elena in the past didn't sit well with me. It was a small-ish thing I suppose and one I can get over, I just wasn't thrilled with it, but I know that upon rewatches it will just be a small thing that I'll always note and will slightly bug. It will keep the episode from full adoration and that gives me a slight sad.

As will the conversation of rage. Not for the expected reasons I suppose. Yes, the couple-girl in me is not thrilled that they are obviously setting up some "connection" of sorts between Stefan and Elena that may or may not have to do with the fact that they are both doppelgangers (whatever, *sigh*). I get that they feel they have to drag out the damn triangle somehow and appease the much smaller Stefan/Elena fanbase somehow and this may be a set-up for how they are choosing to do so. Again,whatever. I choose to look at this in a good way. It means that whatever "connection" Stefan and Elena share, however far it goes back, Damon and Elena's love was strong enough to overcome it, uh huh! So there.

And, hey, what endgame couple is a good endgame couple without drama, right? Right. So, I'm fine with the whole reasoning behind the rage conversation. It's the execution of it, or rather the dialogue, the execution (since while Joshua Butler isn't my favorite director if it's surface stuff, he's good and this was all surface stuff). Why didn't Damon tell Elena that he got Jeremy unexpelled? Why didn't she mention the supposed Damon/Jeremy fight, which he could then deny? Why didn't Damon have the opportunity to basically use the actual truth to help soften those edges of Elena's rage that Silas had sharpened? Instead the dialogue had Elena *only* focus on the one thing that Damon did do which was have Jeremy help Katherine.

Everything else, every other thing that Damon could have legitimately defended wasn't touched upon and that was just sloppy and – here we come to my biggest problem with Brian Young's writing – clunky. He can be such a dang clunky writer. He gets from point A to point H with such little finesse at times and it's frustrating because The Vampire Diaries is filled with a damn fine writing staff.

He's not bad, he's co-written some of my favorite episodes. It's just that on his own, even really great ones, like this one, he has moments, like this one, where it's important and he goes off the rails. And that happened here. This conversation required finesse. It required the right touch, weaving from Jeremy to Katherine, from the Damon/Elena dynamic to the Stefan/Elena dynamic without stirring up jealousy and touching upon the Damon/Stefan relationship as well as the Damon/Katherine and Elena/Katherine relationships all at the same time. Young wasn't able to deftly weave those parts together.

ETA: I wanted to add that some of my issue with what wasn't addressed in this discussion as well as things that Elena said to "Stefan" (aka Silas) very well can be handwaved away by the fact that Silas very likely messed with Elena's mind. He wanted to screw things up between Damon and Elena which is why Damon didn't even try and reason with Elena once he realized that Silas had gotten to her because he knew that trying to use him as a focal point was useless.

Thank goodness he at least had Ian Somerhalder and Nina Dobrev who know these roles inside and out because they played the scene and brought nuance to that dialogue to give some subtlety and emotional heft to the scene. And emotional heft the scene did have, because less than excellent dialogue or not, connection of a Stefan/Elena connection or not, what we got in that scene for Damon and Elena is pretty damn awesome.

There was the straightforward fact that allegedly the most powerful creature in the world essentially tried to destroy them… and he failed. Damon and Elena survived the attempt. Sure, Damon spat vervain in her face, Elena staked her leg, and Damon urged her to use her connection to Stefan to overcome her rage at him to get through it… but they still got through it together. No outside help, just Damon's brains, his growing confidence in their love, her courage and willingness to do what it takes and they got through it. Because they are awesome. And, come on, Caroline's response upon walking in on them was hysterical. Hee!

     
      "I think we need to set some ground rules for when boyfriends come to visit."

And, erm, hopefully Caroline will have a boyfriend come to visit soon… named Jesse! Guys, uhm, I think Stefan has some competition in my heart for Caroline. Dude, I totally love Jesse and Caroline. He's so adorable! And they are so cute. And so sweet. And I love their chemistry and I was absolutely swooning in their scenes. He didn't notice Elena like at all in that way in the Microbiology class, he was all about Caroline. And in the popsicle scene! Squee! I was just all SQUEE!!! I mean look at the looks!! And the chemistry! And his hand! And their eyes!! And the LOOKS!

 

And his eyes! And his FAAACE!!! And those puppy-dog eyes after she says she has a boyfriend and I was all…. Oh, Jesse!!! Oh, he's so sweet and cute and adorable and I want to smoosh him! No, I want Caroline to smoosh him!! Smoosh him, Caroline, smoosh him! So, yeah, Tyler, you stay away. Klaus, you stay away. Stefan's off in Ripper-land anyway and still hung up on Elena, so Caroline and Jesse…. whee!!! God, this show makes me such a shipper-whore!

Speaking of… I mentioned Tyler above, seriously, Caroline is *not* in love with Tyler and I still maintain that she never was. She loved him, but was not in love with him, but rather in love with the idea of it. She was in love with Matt, could have fallen in love with Klaus, could fall for Stefan and I could see it happen with Jesse because she clearly gets, got the tingles with all of them. That was never there with Tyler. And she's supposedly all hung up on Tyler and yet she "kinda liked" Jesse. Yeah, whatever Care, so not in love with Tyler. Ever..

Aww, and she told Jesse that Damon was her friend. Seriously, she and Damon just have this weird relationship now. They are mean to each other, constantly insult each other. I mean, all the Damon-fans I know like to harp on how awful Caroline is and how terrible she is to Damon, but really, he's just as awful to her. He rarely lets a moment go by around her when he's not insulting her, treats her like an absolute idiot, puts her down constantly. HOWEVER, he will save her life at the drop of a hat. And the reverse is true for her. She was on that phone non-stop on Graduation day calling Klaus and ya'll know that the only reason Damon is alive right now is because Caroline asked Klaus to save Damon for her. So they don't like each other, but they have each other's backs. It's like friendly antagonism now. It's weird, but whatever. And, hey, if we continue to get hilarious moments like this, I'm all for their relationship as is because it was hysterical!

     
      Caroline: Damon! Towel! Knock! / Damon: Caroline! No one cares. No!

I know the comeback would be that Damon insults everyone, but he really doesn't anymore, not like he insults her. He gives vague throwaway derisive comments now and then to Jeremy, Matt and Bonnie, but that's it. It's only Caroline who gets the out and out insults anymore. Oh, and Katherine. Yeah, more on her later. Hehehehe. First the Gilbert-Donovan braintrust. I was amused that Damon was surprised that the G/D braintrust figured out the whole Silas telling everyone to look out for someone who looked like Elena to get Katherine since Damon, of course, was right since they hadn't figured it out, hah! And I always like seeing Jeremy and Matt not only working together, but basically being Damon's good little helpers, LOL, and doing what they're told. They are so his minions, it cracks me up. They'd never admit it, but they totally hero-worship the hell out of him even though they totally shouldn't, but man, he's just so cool!

Not so cool as a human is Katherine, but she's still awesome to watch in action. Even if she's pretty pathetic right now. And hysterical. And I continue to be in awe of Nina Dobrev. It really does seem like I'm watching two different actresses playing Katherine and Elena, it truly, truly does. Katherine and Elena are just so very different, in action, mannerism, voice, inflection, walk, everything. It's really quite astounding. And now we have a human!Katherine and she's just as different as could be from human!Elena, and vampire!Katherine, but still quintessentially Katherine. Ah, but her humanity is beginning to shine through. Seeing little Gilbert get through to her and Katherine Pierce's badassery come through for someone other than herself was quite a sight to see.

     

But I honestly can't decide what my favorite Katherine moment tonight was (it wasn't the badass moment above, because I'm not really a gun-totin' kinda gal). It was either: "I'm the leverage. I'm that thing that everybody wants. {Pausing as realizing seeps in.} I'm the freaking moonstone." Or "My throat is really scratchy. And my head hurts, like, right here. And when I cough it's green." Hmm, moving pictures help …

 

Yeah, no, I can't decide. They were both freaking priceless. My goodness, I love Katherine.

OK, back to Damon and Elena before I head to random thoughts. One of the reasons I loved this episode so much was that second to last scene with them. I loved that they were not just kissing goodbye. I loved that they were kissing so thoroughly. They've been a couple for roughly three to four months now and yet they are obviously still completely into each other. They don't care where they are, they don't care about anyone else. The passion is still there. And they were all over each other and when that phone rang, Elena was all, really? I mean, look at the last gif, look at her face, girl wanted to keep kissing her man! I love that the show is allowing us to see that these two are still crazy hot for each other.

 
 
 

OK, ahem, back to non-shallow thoughts and gazing at pretty, pretty people kissing each other prettily. I also loved that Elena told Damon she loved him again (and that she would still love him even after saving Stefan). And that we've had that two episodes in a row with Elena initiating the "I love you" all four times telling him that because Damon needs that assurance. Which leads to that I bought it when he told her that he is secure in their relationship that he's OK with her having some psychic connection with her ex so obviously the "I love you's" and the public displays of affection and the rolling around and the playing house all summer, etc. has been working. This is good. :D

OK, randoms now …

- So when Damon thanked Liz for assigning some deputies to dredge up the quarry that hands bowed thing was soooo an Ian-thing and not a Damon-thing at all! AT ALL. Kinda jarred me out of the moment there.

- Anyone else find it hilarious that Elena used sex to weaken Damon? Hahahahaha!

- I loved that conversation between Damon and Elena on the phone early on. Damon a wee frustrated that she didn't use compulsion or the threat of violence, not even torture? And Elena's response was just to giggle! LOL!

- So head-canon! Damon had a shirt to wear despite the Elena-near-sex-destruction of his earlier one because Elena had one of his shirts packed away with her to wear to sleep in to remind her of him. Aww.

- I hope (assume) we'll find out how Stefan got out of the safe next week (and why it took him all summer to figure it out).

- At first I was confuzzled (and disappointed that the show would go for the cheap shock value) of the dead, bloody body in the safe) but realized that if Stefan is in Ripper mode, which, duh, he is, well, the Ripper!Stefan is capable of cruelty so he would do something like that so works for me.

- I am surprised that Ripper!Stefan is back. The show did set it up last week with Hallucination!Damon as the devil on Stefan's shoulder but I didn't think they'd go there. Good one.

- Man, the Matt/Bonnie hug almost made me cry. That poor girl. She's been without another's touch for so long now and it took one of her best friends dying to get that and guh. Her admitting that she just isn't ready to be dead. Oh, Bonnie.

     

- I'm still kinda stuck on the idea of shipping Matt and Human!Katherine, but I can understand why some people are shipping Jeremy and Human!Katherine now, but it's just too weird for me, because, yeah, Elena and Jeremy.

- Great Jeremy line. "I'm a hunter and I work out." Yeah, you do, Jeremy and we thank you for that, boo!

- Sorry, but Silas is boring. I blame Paul. There's just no pizzazz in his portrayal. Meh.

- Man, Stefan and Elena's sex life must have been so boring, even Stefan's Elena fantasies are PG, meanwhile in real life, Elena is pushing Damon down, straddling him on a chair, dry humping him, ripping his shirt off and literally popping his buttons off, devouring him with kisses. Me likey!

 
 

- Speaking of hot… whoo, boy! One Mr. Ian Somerhalder is looking hella fine this season. I do think we are hitting the jackpot in the smoking hot in the hair and make-up department this season! Oh yeah!

- So gypsies/travelers are searching for Silas' whereabouts and can put on a spell to block Silas' powers which he can overcome by killing the person. Thank goodness Matt had that ring!! So there's one question there, the other, of course, is what does Nadia want? And how did she know that Matt had anything to do with Silas to even follow him? Was he and/or Rebekah that stupid to be talking about it or did she recognize the Gilbert ring? I'm thinking the latter. And in that case, just how well-known and/or well-traveled is that dang ring?

- So Liz is growing out her hair.

- Ah, so that's what happens when they die while wearing the Gilbert ring and how they wake back up in their bodies. That was cool seeing how Matt came to.

     

- I think it is TOTALLY awesome that Elena is following Damon's lead and is planning on infiltrating Whitmore College's inner circle somehow to figure things out the way Damon did in Mystic Falls. AWESOME. Following Damon's lead.

- And so Whitmore College has a secret conspiracy group too. OK then.

- Am I the only one who thinks that the professor guy is gay?

- Another question… What exactly was Elena's dad up to? Hmm….

- Damn, Elena's a pyro!

- Partly why I liked this episode better than last week (despite how great last week was) is because last week did feel like a Pilot in a way and Pilots are set-ups, and that does keep their full greatness at bay in a way because you spend time doing that set-up. We didn't have to do that in this episode.

Alright, I may have complained above about that clunky dialogue in the one scene,plus the Damon/lying and how that bothered me, but I DID love this episode A LOT, and most of the dialogue really worked. This was a VERY strong episode. Really funny, really strong, and it just flew along. Other than the boring-villain that is Silas and I'm inclined to blame Paul at this point on that, this one was mostly pretty damn fabulous. Damon and Elena are wonderful – and other than my issues mentioned above – I am loving how they are writing them as a couple. Jesse and Caroline are squee-worthy. Human!Katherine is fabulous! Matt and Jeremy as Damon's minions will never not be awesome to me. All the mysteries are muy intriguing and Ripper!Stefan is on the way! Woohoo!!! Can't wait for next week! Yeah, baby!!
 
 
 
Bogwitch: TVD - Punk Damonbogwitch on October 11th, 2013 11:20 am (UTC)
Yeah, another good one, let's hope the season can keep this up!

There's a Jesse? I not feeling him, positively or negatively, I'm afraid. I would have rather kept Megan. No wonder there's a big memorial, she was adorable!

I am a little worried for my OTP (Matt/Bottom of the Quarry), I might have thawed a little after those Bonnie scenes. I might stretch to giving him an aqualung with a quarter-full tank.

"My throat is really scratchy. And my head hurts, like, right here. And when I cough it's green." wins, if only for the tongue and Nina's delivery of "Get me some stuff for all that.". Katherine remains the bestest.

>>>So when Damon thanked Liz for assigning some deputies to dredge up the quarry that hands bowed thing was soooo an Ian-thing and not a Damon-thing at all!

Yeah, I thought that too.

>>>So head-canon! Damon had a shirt to wear despite the Elena-near-sex-destruction of his earlier one because Elena had one of his shirts packed away with her to wear to sleep in to remind her of him. Aww.

I just thought he'd have an spare over-night bag in his car for emergencies! I think that is our difference in thought processes summed up nicely!

>>I think it is TOTALLY awesome that Elena is following Damon's lead and is planning on infiltrating Whitmore College's inner circle somehow to figure things out the way Damon did in Mystic Falls. AWESOME. Following Damon's lead.

I can't imagine it will go so well though (if Damon's infiltration can be said to have 'gone well'...).

Arabian: Damon16arabian on October 13th, 2013 12:54 pm (UTC)
Yeah, the guy that Damon knocked out. See Megan didn't make that big of an impression on me.

Aww, Matt is FINALLY beginning to thaw you out? YAY!!!

Human!Katherine is just fantastic. That the show has managed to find such fantastic humor in the situation, yet still remaining fantastically true to the character, and keeping the pathos, villainy and badassery that comes with it as well is awesome and so, so TVD.

Well, yeah, Elena's infiltration plan will lead to much mayhem and destruction I have no doubt, but I think it's awesome that she's following her man's plan. :D
Bogwitch: TVD - Damon 1977 Bloodbogwitch on October 13th, 2013 08:30 pm (UTC)
I know who Jessie was, I just thought he was a bit meh.

I think Matt was basking in Katherine's reflected glory, tbh. Watching it again today, I love that Jeremy and Matt both recoil when she says "When I cough..." and that she's still limping from the crash. I love all the details in that scene. I think it might just be one of my favourite scenes of the whole show.


Arabian: Katherine02arabian on October 14th, 2013 09:56 am (UTC)
Nah, Matt is growing on you. Accept it. It just took you longer than me.

It really was a FANTASTIC scene!
hotarujazz: hands and dance 4x07hotarujazz on October 11th, 2013 11:25 am (UTC)
Wow, I'm first!! YAY!!! :)

I just watched the episode so this is very fresh for me. I agree with most of what you said in this post except I didn't love the episode. The writing was just too chunky and unrefined that all characters felt off to me....I found the plot interesting and I want to see what's going to happen next but this episode was so amateurish in writing way, very sloppy way of connecting the dots in my opinion. But I'm glad you loved the episode.

Damon and Elena pissed me off in this episode because they are both at fault and I think it was out of the character for their relationship to act as they have acted(keeping stuff from each other, important stuff). In the past when they tried it, it didn't last because they caved right away but this time circumstances made them reveal the secrets. But I could have gotten over it if the dialogue was written better.

Few more points: I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the difference between Silas and Ripper!Stefan. Maybe I will see it when they end up on the screen together? I doubt it! And I agree about Ian-thing with hands in the Liz scene!!! I totally thought the same thing, Ian dropped the ball a little! :/ But he does look better than ever this season! I don't know about the gay vibe from the professor, we'll see!

I don't ship Katherine with anyone...I don't trust her with nice people! XD but I loved her this episode! And I ship Bonnie with lots of sex because I have a girl crush on her and I love her with both Matt and Jeremy!
Arabian: Jeremy & Bonnie02arabian on October 13th, 2013 01:07 pm (UTC)
Wow, I'm first!! YAY!!! :)

Erm, not quite. But almost!

I just watched the episode so this is very fresh for me. I agree with most of what you said in this post except I didn't love the episode.

The writing was just too chunky and unrefined that all characters felt off to me....I found the plot interesting and I want to see what's going to happen next but this episode was so amateurish in writing way, very sloppy way of connecting the dots in my opinion.

What did you find sloppy aside from the Damon/Elena stuff? Obviously, I agree with you about that one scene, but overall, I thought stuff was really well done, so much that I was really pleasantly surprised with how well Young did. Or maybe I'm just so happy my show is back and I'll feel differently when I do a season rewatch, LOL!

Damon and Elena pissed me off in this episode because they are both at fault and I think it was out of the character for their relationship to act as they have acted (keeping stuff from each other, important stuff). In the past when they tried it, it didn't last because they caved right away but this time circumstances made them reveal the secrets. But I could have gotten over it if the dialogue was written better.

The ONLY reason I'm OK with it is BECAUSE of the new state of their relationship. I liken it to when Damon kept that he didn't see Jeremy's ring back in "The Return" when he lied to Elena in "Bad Moon Rising." I wasn't upset with him lying to her at first then when he never had before because it made sense. Damon was in a new place. Elena was his friend and he didn't want to lose his friend, so he lied to keep her. But then he felt that he had to tell the truth because yeah he *didn't* lie to Elena. Same situation here. He and Elena are in a new stage of their relationship. Neither one of them wants to rock the boat, so they are making new decisions based on this new state and they aren't always going to be the right decisions.

As for Elena and the comment about Damon and the implied lying and them not talking about all of the Damon issues that Silas brought up, I realized and edited this into my post after you posted that it can very easily be handwaved away by the fact that Silas very likely messed with Elena's mind. He wanted to screw things up between Damon and Elena which is why Damon didn't even try and reason with Elena once he realized that Silas had gotten to her because he knew that trying to use him as a focal point was useless (which is why he used Stefan). Anything he tried to defend about himself would have just made Elena angrier because that's what Silas had put in her head (rage at Damon, kill Damon). The problem -- and this is where I have the issue with Young's writing -- is that I don't think that was made clear enough.

Few more points: I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the difference between Silas and Ripper!Stefan.

To me, I do see the difference and that's my problem. Ripper!Stefan was passionate and funny. There was emotion there. Silas is just cold and boring. Ripper!Stefan wasn't boring. Silas is boring. He's just kinda meh.

And I agree about Ian-thing with hands in the Liz scene!!! I totally thought the same thing, Ian dropped the ball a little! :/

Grrr! *Ian* did NOT drop the ball. Director Joshua Butler dropped the ball. That was HIS job to catch, not the actor. An actor is naturally going to bring their own characteristics into a character, especially one they have played for so long, in a moment like this, it is the DIRECTOR's job to catch it. Butler dropped the ball, his job, not the actor's, thank you very much.

I don't know about the gay vibe from the professor, we'll see!

Well, one other person caught it, so it wasn't just me at least. :shrugs:

I don't ship Katherine with anyone...I don't trust her with nice people! XD but I loved her this episode!

It's still Elijah in my heart of hearts, but I still have this odd hunkering for her and Matt now. I did adore her in this one lots, though.

And I ship Bonnie with lots of sex because I have a girl crush on her and I love her with both Matt and Jeremy!

Eh, I just like Bonnie and Matt as friends. I love her and Jeremy so much!

Edited at 2013-10-13 01:11 pm (UTC)
bangel_4e: elena2bangel_4e on October 11th, 2013 12:39 pm (UTC)
Uhm, a good episode..I liked it. But some things just don't sit right with me.

-First of all, the idiotic psychic connection between Stefan and Elena. Like, really? I mean, I get it...they gave us Delena moments while Stefan and Elena were together but they came from real situations and true moments. This is just out of the blue and really weird. But I do understand Elena's concern and the guilt and considering how compassionate she is, she's even more like that when it comes to Stefan.
Ok, fine. Have your moments for Stelena fans.

-The title...many people say true lies refers to Elena telling Damon she'll keep loving him after Stefan is back in their life and she means it (hence the "true") but it's not gonna be like this (hence the "lies"). This bothers me. I mean, I know they're gonna be happy for a while and I'm pretty sure Stefan is not gonna be the cause for their break-up (I mean Stefan as in Elena returning to him) but still...

-The sloppy writing. Elena and Damon didn't talk about WHY Damon kept things from her, or she from him. SO OOC. Truly. If it didn't happen onscreen, then I'm fine with it. But these things usually happen so we can see how they're resolved. Instead, they focused on Stefan and the dreams and nothing else. The Elena part probably got resolved when Damon said it didn't bother him that she had these dreams, hence explaining he knew why she had kept this from him. The Damon part didn't had an explanation, he didn't deny the LIES Silas told Elena...also with the Katherine part. Elena's pissed cause he's protecting Katherine and she couldn't care less about her...but Damon doesn't want Silas to get what he want..even if he was willing to do this if it meant finding his brother again. And he is worried SICK about Stefan, you can just see it. He feels guilty and so does Elena.
I don't know..this is really ooc...also the quote about Damon lying to her. He always told her things. RE-WATCH writers. -.-


Besides all this, kudos to the show for freeing Stefan so early. And as a Ripper. Well done. (Even if I can see some Elena helping Stefan and saving him thing again, ugh).

KATHERINE...my flawless queen. I love her SO, SO, SO much. And you are so right about Nina. I truly have to keep reminding myself that it's the same actress, lol. And Katherine as human is adorable and bitchy and I adored the moonstone quote and how she was worried she had a cold. And then Jeremy wrapped her in a blanket. AWWW. I do not ship them for real (it could be a little weird, even if I wouldn't care in the end) but that was too cute.

I feel a little sorry for Boonie and yep, I might have a heart of stone, but I don't care that much.

Caroline. I ship her with this guy as well. lol
I don't know if Caroline was ever so in love with Tyler, I just know that I've never felt any connection between them as a couple. And speaking of Caroline and connections...
I still haven't watched the Originals episodes, I'll probably catch up on Sunday..but I want Caroline to visit Klaus. I miss Klaus :(

Overall, this episode was fun and flow-y but some things weren't done well and other felt too forced.

Oh...IAN looks at his best this season..making Damon even HOTTER...ahhh. And yes, I noticed the hands thing too! So cute!!

The professor gay? Uhm, it didn't give me that vibe, but could be. I guess we'll see.


Edited at 2013-10-11 12:40 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Katherine04arabian on October 14th, 2013 05:11 am (UTC)
-First of all, the idiotic psychic connection between Stefan and Elena. Like, really? I mean, I get it...they gave us Delena moments while Stefan and Elena were together but they came from real situations and true moments.

Would you prefer they do what they did with Damon and Elena with Stefan and Elena now? Have Elena be with Damon and have feelings, moments with Stefan that aren't driven by some-fate linked bond that have nothing to do with genuine feelings? I wouldn't. The fact that they are keeping the triangle going because of some mystical mumbo-jumbo as opposed to true-blue, honest-to-goodness feelings, I can live with. It just underscores that what Damon and Elena have is REAL. What Stefan and Elena have? Smoke and mirrors.

-The title

Titles mean nothing on this show. I spent most of the summer coming up with better titles for episodes. They just go for catchy titles that fit certain aspects here and there. It doesn't matter. Don't waste any time worrying about it. Seriously.

-The sloppy writing. Elena and Damon didn't talk about WHY Damon kept things from her, or she from him. SO OOC. Truly. If it didn't happen onscreen, then I'm fine with it. But these things usually happen so we can see how they're resolved. Instead, they focused on Stefan and the dreams and nothing else.

OK, here's where I'm GLAD that I have people coming in and complaining about stuff because it gives me a reason to think it through and make it work. It's OK. Silas basically got into Elena's head and made her want to rage against Damon and kill him. Damon knew that. Damon knew that EVERYTHING and ANYTHING he said about himself would just enrage Elena more. He knew that. There was literally zero point in trying to talk to her during that scene about him because she wasn't going to listen. It would make her angrier. Because that is what Silas had compelled her to do. So he had her focus on these dreams about Stefan.

As for us not seeing them talk about, why bother? The entire conversation would have consisted of "Silas basically lied and twisted it all around, Elena." "Oh, yeah, that makes sense, what really happened?." Damon would then proceed to tell herself. She'd sigh, frown and then concede he made the right call. End of discussion. Would we *really* need to see that scene? No, we wouldn't. We as viewers already know that Silas lied to Elena. Damon knows that Silas lied to Elena. Once the compulsion was broken, Elena would know that Silas lied to Elena. Once Elena spoke to Jeremy, she would have confirmation that Silas lied to her. So what would the point have been of such a scene other than taking up making out in front of Damon's car time? Damon and Elena talking about the Stefan/Elena dreams DID matter because of the whole Stefan/Elena past.

this is really ooc.

Right, because SILAS made her act that way. HE made her act OOC. Which Damon knew. Which I forgot, so duh me.

also the quote about Damon lying to her. He always told her things. RE-WATCH writers. -.-

Or, rather, we viewers weren't paying attention. SILAS was most likely controlling her mind already at that point, putting things in her head, making her think these things about Damon. Because he wanted to create a rift, he started right away just about as soon as he walked up, remember?

Overall, this episode was fun and flow-y but some things weren't done well and other felt too forced.

I think seeing things through the point of view that SILAS made Elena act OOC and Damon didn't bother trying to talk to Elena about those things because it would only enrage Elena more (because of Silas) makes those other things work.

Edited at 2013-10-14 05:14 am (UTC)
bangel_4e: lost2bangel_4e on October 14th, 2013 11:55 am (UTC)
Would you prefer they do what they did with Damon and Elena with Stefan and Elena now? Have Elena be with Damon and have feelings, moments with Stefan that aren't driven by some-fate linked bond that have nothing to do with genuine feelings? I wouldn't. The fact that they are keeping the triangle going because of some mystical mumbo-jumbo as opposed to true-blue, honest-to-goodness feelings, I can live with. It just underscores that what Damon and Elena have is REAL. What Stefan and Elena have? Smoke and mirrors.

I didn't say that I would have preferred that. I just said that it was stupid, as part of a storyline. The fact that it's better than true feelings goes without saying.


OK, here's where I'm GLAD that I have people coming in and complaining about stuff because it gives me a reason to think it through and make it work. It's OK. Silas basically got into Elena's head and made her want to rage against Damon and kill him. Damon knew that. Damon knew that EVERYTHING and ANYTHING he said about himself would just enrage Elena more. He knew that. There was literally zero point in trying to talk to her during that scene about him because she wasn't going to listen. It would make her angrier. Because that is what Silas had compelled her to do. So he had her focus on these dreams about Stefan.


Maybe you misunderstood my words or I've explained myself poorly. I'm not complaining about the fact that Damon told her to focus on Stefan..that was fine, I understand what he did. I meant that when they were by the car, he told her the dreams didn't bother him etc but they didn't settle the fact that he kept those things from her.
But then again, I had JUST finished watching the episode when I wrote this and now I see things differently..I should probably write when my mind's clearer lol
Because I agree with what you say...I actually thought it too yesterday (that the explanation wasn't needed after all)...especially the ooc part and the part where I complained the writers said he lied to her. Yep, Silas already got into her mind...but I forgot that. Its funny cause I was discussing it with my best friend (which is a Stelena fan) and I said:"Oh, come on...Damon has never lied to her, he always told her things" and she replies:"But she was already under Silas' compulsion/whatever it was". And it hit me. She was right. I kinda overlooked that. So DUH me as well :)

And 100% agree that what Damon told her was VERY important AND needed.

And I forgot, do you read synopsis for the upcoming episodes or watch preview webclips? Just so I know what NOT to tell you ;)
Arabian: Damon & Elena04arabian on October 20th, 2013 05:47 am (UTC)
I didn't say that I would have preferred that. I just said that it was stupid, as part of a storyline. The fact that it's better than true feelings goes without saying.

I know you didn't, but that would be the only other option. They were going to continue the triangle. And these were are options. So it was either of these two choices and I was asking which would you prefer. Obviously, all of us D/Ers would prefer this. And this most recent episode actually made it even that much more palatable because it reduced Stefan and Elena to a couple of stand-ins, LOL!

I meant that when they were by the car, he told her the dreams didn't bother him etc but they didn't settle the fact that he kept those things from her.

No, I did understand you. I was explaining that it didn't matter because Elena did THE SAME THING. She kept things from him too to not upset him. So why would we need to have that conversation? Damon would say 'well, I did this because I didn't want you to be upset and for you to just enjoy yourself,' and Elena would be 'oh, yeah, well, I didn't tell you about the Stefan pit of my stomach feelings because I didn't want you to be upset and just enjoy yourself.' They did the exact same thing for the exact same reason. So there was nothing to settle. They both kept things from each other for the same reason.

But... you figured that out on your own, LOL! I wanted you to know, though, that I didn't misunderstand you, but clearly my explaining myself wasn't clear because you misunderstoof me, LOL!

do you read synopsis for the upcoming episodes or watch preview webclips? Just so I know what NOT to tell you ;)

Nope, I don't do either. I try not to look at episode stills either. But for SOME reason people put them in the NIAN tumblr tag even though they are D/E and not NIAN. Grrrr! But I try not to. Ugh. Thanks for asking. :)
bangel_4e: delena2bangel_4e on October 20th, 2013 09:54 am (UTC)
And this most recent episode actually made it even that much more palatable because it reduced Stefan and Elena to a couple of stand-ins, LOL!

YAY! I can't wait to read your comments from last episode..it was so great for Delena. So great!


But... you figured that out on your own, LOL! I wanted you to know, though, that I didn't misunderstand you, but clearly my explaining myself wasn't clear because you misunderstoof me, LOL!

Yes, I did! Ahaha. Nah, I probably didn't read carefully or paid proper attention...no worries :)
Arabian: Damon & Elena25arabian on October 20th, 2013 10:33 am (UTC)
I FINALLY got my post up. Stupid sinus infection! It really was so good for them. I can't believe S/Ers are happy about it. Doofus-heads. Whatever. :roll my eyes:

I probably didn't read carefully or paid proper attention

No, the writing was befuddled, and Joshua Butler was the director (remember he of "Do Not Go Gentle" and "The Five") so I knew going into episode two there might be some issues, sigh. We did the best we could, LOL!
bangel_4e: b1bangel_4e on October 20th, 2013 10:36 am (UTC)
Yay, gonna read it! Aww, I'm sorry you're sick...is it better now?

They're really happy about it?? Ahahah. They really don't get stuff, exactly like last season.

Oh, him again...ugh. Well, what can we do? :)
Arabian: Ian Somerhalder06arabian on October 21st, 2013 05:24 am (UTC)
I am better, thank you. :)

Yup, they actually had Stefan/Elena soulmates trending or something like that. Nope, they don't get it at all. LOL!

Yup, him again. :( But, hey, he loves Nina and Ian. :)
Florencia: DE (Kiss) (5x01)florencia7 on October 11th, 2013 07:49 pm (UTC)
SO EXCITED TO READ THIS ♥ ♥ ♥

”I didn't like how there was an implication in Elena's words that since they were now in a romantic relationship, Damon shouldn't be lying to Elena… as if Damon had lied to her regularly in the past.” - I think the word “lying” is confusing here. It seemed to me that all that Elena meant was that now they didn't need to/shouldn't do the whole “delayed report” thing ;) It wasn't very clear, though, yes.

”Why didn't Damon tell Elena that he got Jeremy unexpelled?” - For my own peace of mind (because I love to love everything about this show haha), I decided that Damon right away telling Elena to focus on Stefan of all things, er, people, was caused by the fact that *HE* himself was all wrapped up in worrying about Stefan and (after his conversation with Caroline and once Elena knew Stefan was missing) he knew she'd be VERY worried too. Plus: Elena focusing on Stefan was not about her feelings for Stefan. It was about her feelings. It was about Elena and who she is and Damon knows her so well, so he did a similar thing to when he had used Matt to make her turn her humanity on. It was Elena's COMPASSION that was stronger than Silas' compulsion, than everything. (Not to mention that in a way it was her love for Damon that made her snap out of it too LOL because she listened to him, did *exactly* what he advised her to do, despite Silas' compulsion. So this ought to count, right? ;)

”There was the straightforward fact that allegedly the most powerful creature in the world essentially tried to destroy them… and he failed.” - OH That's such a cool point! You're right.

”And now we have a human!Katherine and she's just as different as could be from human!Elena, and vampire!Katherine, but still quintessentially Katherine. Ah, but her humanity is beginning to shine through.” - I'm really in awe with Katherine (well, Nina) this season. Human!Katherine is really... human!Katherine! Lol

”So when Damon thanked Liz for assigning some deputies to dredge up the quarry that hands bowed thing was soooo an Ian-thing and not a Damon-thing at all!” - OMG I noticed that too! lol

”Ah, so that's what happens when they die while wearing the Gilbert ring and how they wake back up in their bodies.” - I love that we finally got to *see* something that happened so many times before. TVD is so awesome when it comes to coherence and consistency and I felt like this scene tied the previous seasons with this one even more. (The same with Katherine's glorious one-liner about the moonstone.)

”Sorry, but Silas is boring. I blame Paul.” - Yeah, there were some moments/lines delivery I REALLY like, but on the whole he seems to be struggling a little. Well, here's to hoping Silas will decide to possess someone or that his *spirit* gets locked up in a different body ;D

Bonnie/Matt hug was SO SAD :[

I like a lot Jesse too, but since Caroline/Stefan is on the horizon I don't foresee a long & healthy life for him lol

”I think it is TOTALLY awesome that Elena is following Damon's lead and is planning on infiltrating Whitmore College's inner circle somehow to figure things out the way Damon did in Mystic Falls.” - YES, I love this so much too!!

”Am I the only one who thinks that the professor guy is gay?” - I confess I was mostly missing Shane during this new professor guy scenes, so I didn't try to analyze him that closely lol

”Another question… What exactly was Elena's dad up to? Hmm….” - This is interesting, because as far as the getting rid of vampires agenda goes, I think we've been there, done that, so it can't be just that.

Last but not least, with his “I don't understand why she likes you” line, Silas joined the club of villains not approving of DE ;)

Thank you for this post! Reading your thoughts made my day! ♥
tj2013tj2013 on October 12th, 2013 10:38 am (UTC)
”Why didn't Damon tell Elena that he got Jeremy unexpelled?” - For my own peace of mind (because I love to love everything about this show haha), I decided that Damon right away telling Elena to focus on Stefan of all things, er, people, was caused by the fact that *HE* himself was all wrapped up in worrying about Stefan and (after his conversation with Caroline and once Elena knew Stefan was missing) he knew she'd be VERY worried too. Plus: Elena focusing on Stefan was not about her feelings for Stefan. It was about her feelings. It was about Elena and who she is and Damon knows her so well, so he did a similar thing to when he had used Matt to make her turn her humanity on. It was Elena's COMPASSION that was stronger than Silas' compulsion,

THIS! I just wanted to write the EXACT same thing. I have read to many SE-comments elsewhere, and now I come here and can only say thank you.
Florencia: DE (Kiss) (5x01)florencia7 on October 13th, 2013 04:12 am (UTC)
Aww Thank YOU so much! :D I'm happy if I could cheer you up a little ^^

One of the reasons why I love arabian's TVD posts so much is because they are always so full of & they inspire so much positivity! It's wonderful.
Arabian: Damon & Elena22arabian on October 14th, 2013 06:23 am (UTC)
I think the word “lying” is confusing here. It seemed to me that all that Elena meant was that now they didn't need to/shouldn't do the whole “delayed report” thing ;) It wasn't very clear, though, yes.

It could be that or what I was thinking which I said above to others which is that Silas had already started to get into head, but either way that falls under sloppy writing, yes.

I decided that Damon right away telling Elena to focus on Stefan of all things

While I do think he was concerned about Stefan definitely, I don't think that was the case completely although definitely since THAT was where Damon's brain went. HE latched onto Stefan because HE is worried about Stefan. But it was also about Damon realizing that he couldn't let Elena focus on him at all. I realized while reading other people's comments and thinking on the episode more that Silas basically got into Elena's head and made her want to rage against Damon and kill him. Damon knew that. Damon knew that EVERYTHING and ANYTHING he said about himself would just enrage Elena more. He knew that. There was literally zero point in trying to talk to her during that scene about him because she wasn't going to listen. It would make her angrier. Because that is what Silas had compelled her to do. So he had her focus on these dreams about Stefan.

I like a lot Jesse too, but since Caroline/Stefan is on the horizon I don't foresee a long & healthy life for him lol

Well, hopefully, they begin to integrate him before the Caroline/Stefan stuff (squee!) happens because I really do like the actor so far.

Thank you for this post! Reading your thoughts made my day! ♥

I don't know why you do it, but thank you for fangirling my TVD posts so much, bb! ♥
Florencia: DE (Kiss) (5x01)florencia7 on October 15th, 2013 02:45 am (UTC)
"But it was also about Damon realizing that he couldn't let Elena focus on him at all." - NOW everything makes more sense. That's a great point.

I do it because that's how I feel!!! ^^ I absolutely ADORE your posts, you have no idea. I'd fangirl them even more but I don't want to scare you LOL

♥!
prettygirl5130: pic#119743568prettygirl5130 on October 12th, 2013 01:05 am (UTC)
I KNEW they were going to keep on going with the bonds! TVD always does that! They take one particular part of a season...play with it and then they put it onto another character usually in a bit of a different context. They started the bonds with Tyler and Klaus in season 3, really fleshed it out in season 4 with Damon and Elena, and now they're going to really really get into it with Stefan and Elena.

As much as a lot of the fanbase hates it, this show is essentially about a triangle and it will always be about the triangle. Truthfully, I started watching this show FOR the triangle because I like the angst and the drama. It makes me happy and I knew that no couple EVER on a TV show is happy for long, especially on a teen show like TVD. Damon and Elena will remain in a relationship for, I think, a pretty good amount of time but just like SE in seasons 1 and 2 they will "play" with them a lot! One of the ways to play with them is with the triangle and the SE bond is a great way to keep SE in the game without breaking up DE because of SE. Plus, it reinforces Damon's warranted insecurities. He feels guilty...guilty for taking his brother's girl, guilty for being happy while Stefan suffered, and guilty for even being ahppy with Elena whom he feels and has been told should not have happened. Damon is not a good choice for Elena...he firmly believes that. To him, Elena deaserves that picture perfect "normal" human life. It's probably why he decided that Elena going to college was really a good idea...gotta keep her in the normal life zone and college is part of that. Add to the fact that not only did his brother leave and is now suffering while DE have been selfishly living happily...but Elena gave up that perfect human life FOR an eternity with Damon. Elena gave away that life to Katherine. So now the pressure is on for Damon...he doesn't want Elena to regret her decision. This whole bond thing could potentially highlight ALL OF THAT! It will only highlight the fact that Elena should be and is meant to be with Stefan. Can they both break the cycle and defeat Elena's destiny? Knowing DE? Probably so but it's going to be a battle IMO. Moreso for Damon than Elena. I feel like we're finally going to dive into Damon's insecurities because they really didn't do that last season and Damon was brought DOWN DOWN!!! Damon was so low it was really depressing especially while elena was "off" in the later half of season 4. Remember him during the prom episode? He basically looked like he wanted to crawl into a hole and die AGAIN at that prom because he firmly believed that what Elena said that night was true and i'm sure this whole doppleganger bond will dredge that all up and hopfully Damon will learn to BEAT his insecurities and be able to move on from them with Elena.

Truthfully, I love SO MUCH about this season from DE to exploring the other side with Bonnie (I'm thinking that by the end of the season Matt won't be able to find his body), to Deremy to pretty much EVERYTHING! What really excites me is exploring these character's history, especially DE. I've been wanting to knwo about the Gilberts for a long time, ever since Elena and Stefan found those weapons in season 2 at the lakehouse hidden in a closet. Then when Bonnie's mother talked about how she worked with Elena's family for awhile my interest kept on going. My prediction right now is that Elena's father was part of that secret club at the college and was part of some big vampire thing.

I also didn't expect Stefan to NOT be in that box. I know a lot of people think silas let him out but my crazy prediction is that Matt let Stefan out while he was under the "travelers" influence. He did kind of appear out of nowhere to find Katherine at the beginning of the episode.

Oh and RIPPER STEFAN! OMG!!! Hopefully Paul will be able to show distinction between the Ripper and Silas because right now they're kind of the same.
Arabian: Stefan02arabian on October 14th, 2013 06:35 am (UTC)
I'm sure a bunch of D/E fans are upset with the S/E connection and while I'm not happy with it, knowing that the show is determined to continue with the triangle (why I'm still not sure), I'd prefer this way over that Elena has legitimate romantic feelings for Stefan as opposed to some mumbo-jumbo, mystical doppelganger-driven ones, while Damon and Elena's are REAL and so strong that they overrode the mumbo-jumbo, mystical doppelganger-driven ones once and will simply do so again and again.

As much as a lot of the fanbase hates it

LMAO!! I wrote the above paragraph before I reread this next paragraph. Yeah, just assumed that everyone hated it. Yup.

Damon and Elena will remain in a relationship for, I think, a pretty good amount of time but just like SE in seasons 1 and 2 they will "play" with them a lot!

Here's the thing... there are only two seasons left. So that pretty much leaves Damon and Elena together, dealing with this TOGETHER as a couple for the rest of the show's run. I can live with that. Angst is fine. And their REAL love will overcome.

It's probably why he decided that Elena going to college was really a good idea...gotta keep her in the normal life zone and college is part of that. Add to the fact that not only did his brother leave and is now suffering while DE have been selfishly living happily...but Elena gave up that perfect human life FOR an eternity with Damon. Elena gave away that life to Katherine. So now the pressure is on for Damon...he doesn't want Elena to regret her decision. This whole bond thing could potentially highlight ALL OF THAT! It will only highlight the fact that Elena should be and is meant to be with Stefan. Can they both break the cycle and defeat Elena's destiny? Knowing DE? Probably so but it's going to be a battle IMO. Moreso for Damon than Elena. I feel like we're finally going to dive into Damon's insecurities

I agree with all of this, and I would LOVE if we really got to explore this from both sides.

I've been wanting to knwo about the Gilberts for a long time, ever since Elena and Stefan found those weapons in season 2 at the lakehouse hidden in a closet. Then when Bonnie's mother talked about how she worked with Elena's family for awhile my interest kept on going.

Good, good points. And also, hopefully we'll find out some Salvatore history as well. I still am holding onto my long-held cherished hope that papa Salvatore hated vampires SO MUCH because mama Salvatore didn't die but became a vampire and took off, forced to leave her boys behind and believed they died when daddy dearest killed them.

I also didn't expect Stefan to NOT be in that box. I know a lot of people think silas let him out but my crazy prediction is that Matt let Stefan out while he was under the "travelers" influence. He did kind of appear out of nowhere to find Katherine at the beginning of the episode.

Ooh! Good theory. We'll see.

Oh and RIPPER STEFAN! OMG!!!

That was a great surprise, but it was TOTALLY telegraphed in the previous episode.

Hopefully Paul will be able to show distinction between the Ripper and Silas because right now they're kind of the same.

See, others are saying that but I don't see it. Ripper!Stefan was passionate and funny. Silas is boring. I never thought that Ripper!Stefan was boring. Silas is meh.
tj2013tj2013 on October 12th, 2013 10:44 am (UTC)
Hey there,
I loved your first two recaps. The last ep was amazingly funny (more than usual) and I am so glad my favorite show is back, together with my favorite recapper.
Did you notice the lyrics of the song they played during the final DE Scene? So many Damon-y feelings ...
Arabian: Damon11arabian on October 14th, 2013 06:36 am (UTC)
It was a really funny episode, indeed!

I did notice the song. I can't believe I forgot to mention it. Ugh! SUCH A GREAT song. So romantic! :D :D

Thanks for stopping by and your sweet words. :)
faith5by5_1013: The Vampire Diaries: Damon/Elena: Kissfaith5by5_1013 on October 12th, 2013 04:40 pm (UTC)
Why didn't Damon tell Elena that he got Jeremy unexpelled? Why didn't she mention the supposed Damon/Jeremy fight, which he could then deny? Why didn't Damon have the opportunity to basically use the actual truth to help soften those edges of Elena's rage that Silas had sharpened? Instead the dialogue had Elena *only* focus on the one thing that Damon did do which was have Jeremy help Katherine.

That confused and bothered me too. I would think Elena would want to address those things. Not just the Katherine thing.

Speaking of… I mentioned Tyler above, seriously, Caroline is *not* in love with Tyler and I still maintain that she never was. She loved him, but was not in love with him, but rather in love with the idea of it. She was in love with Matt, could have fallen in love with Klaus, could fall for Stefan and I could see it happen with Jesse because she clearly gets, got the tingles with all of them. That was never there with Tyler. And she's supposedly all hung up on Tyler and yet she "kinda liked" Jesse. Yeah, whatever Care, so not in love with Tyler. Ever..

I agree with you on all of this. Except I'm not certain about the Jesse part. I was watching with a friend, so I wasn't watching as closely as I usually like to. I'll have to focus on those scenes when I rewatch before I post about it. But, yeah, you know how much I agree with you about Tyler!

I mean, all the Damon-fans I know like to harp on how awful Caroline is and how terrible she is to Damon

That makes me really sad! I'm not actively involved in the fandom (but I know there are plenty of corners of every fandom that should be avoided like the plague), so I didn't know this. Damon and Caroline are two of my very favorite characters. I love them both so much. So I think it's really sad that it sounds like so many viewers pick one and despise the other.

But I honestly can't decide what my favorite Katherine moment tonight was (it wasn't the badass moment above, because I'm not really a gun-totin' kinda gal). It was either: "I'm the leverage. I'm that thing that everybody wants. {Pausing as realizing seeps in.} I'm the freaking moonstone." Or "My throat is really scratchy. And my head hurts, like, right here. And when I cough it's green."

I loved those moments. I find human!Katherine especially entertaining.

I also loved that Elena told Damon she loved him again (and that she would still love him even after saving Stefan). And that we've had that two episodes in a row with Elena initiating the "I love you" all four times telling him that because Damon needs that assurance. Which leads to that I bought it when he told her that he is secure in their relationship that he's OK with her having some psychic connection with her ex so obviously the "I love you's" and the public displays of affection and the rolling around and the playing house all summer, etc. has been working. This is good. :D

*agrees completely*

I loved that conversation between Damon and Elena on the phone early on. Damon a wee frustrated that she didn't use compulsion or the threat of violence, not even torture? And Elena's response was just to giggle! LOL!

That was such a cute little moment.

Some people are shipping Katherine/Jeremy?! I don't know... That's just a bit too close to actual incest for me. I mean, I know there are incest shippers in, like, every fandom, but that's one of those things that I will never understand. I'm just usually of the "you enjoy your thing over there, and I'm going to enjoy my thing way over here" mindset when it comes to incest shipping. Basically, I try to ignore it.

Sorry, but Silas is boring. I blame Paul. There's just no pizzazz in his portrayal. Meh.

As I've said, I actually find Silas interesting, but I wanted to let you know that my rl friend who I often watch the show with very much agrees with you. She said she wishes that Damon was the Silas doppelganger.

Man, Stefan and Elena's sex life must have been so boring, even Stefan's Elena fantasies are PG, meanwhile in real life, Elena is pushing Damon down, straddling him on a chair, dry humping him, ripping his shirt off and literally popping his buttons off, devouring him with kisses. Me likey!

Again, agreed!
Matt: Ghidorahghidorah15 on October 12th, 2013 07:48 pm (UTC)
She said she wishes that Damon was the Silas doppelganger.

...you know, that reminded me of how in "Pictures of You", Silas took on Damon's appearance to fool Stefan - except that we didn't see it at all, only heard about it. I'm starting to think that we were robbed, because Lord knows that Ian Somerhalder can nail the villain role. Indeed, why couldn't he have played Silas?

Edited at 2013-10-12 07:48 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Ian Somerhalder08arabian on October 14th, 2013 06:36 am (UTC)
Because heaven forbid Ian get yet another reason to get even more kudos while Paul is left in the dust. Mean, but oh so true.
Matt: Ghidorahghidorah15 on October 14th, 2013 04:38 pm (UTC)
They'd better find some way to rectify that. S'all I'm saying.
Arabian: Damon & Elena20arabian on October 14th, 2013 09:17 am (UTC)
That confused and bothered me too. I would think Elena would want to address those things. Not just the Katherine thing.

I actually figured it out. Aha! Silas wanted to screw things up between Damon and Elena which is why Damon didn't even try and reason with Elena once he realized that Silas had gotten to her because he knew that trying to use him as a focal point was useless (which is why he used Stefan). Anything he tried to defend about himself would have just made Elena angrier because that's what Silas had put in her head (rage at Damon, kill Damon). The problem -- and this is where I have the issue with Young's writing -- is that I don't think that was made clear enough.

Silas basically got into Elena's head and made her want to rage against Damon and kill him. Damon knew that. Damon knew that EVERYTHING and ANYTHING he said about himself would just enrage Elena more. He knew that. There was literally zero point in trying to talk to her during that scene about him because she wasn't going to listen. It would make her angrier. Because that is what Silas had compelled her to do. So he had her focus on these dreams about Stefan -- because he was thinking about Stefan because of his own worry and because he was thinking about that since Caroline had mentioned it earlier.

And there was really no point in us seeing them talk about the Jeremy stuff because the entire conversation would have consisted of "Silas basically lied and twisted it all around, Elena." "Oh, yeah, that makes sense, what really happened?." Damon would then proceed to tell herself. She'd sigh, frown and then concede he made the right call. End of discussion. Would we *really* need to see that scene? No, we wouldn't. We as viewers already know that Silas lied to Elena. Damon knows that Silas lied to Elena. Once the compulsion was broken, Elena would know that Silas lied to Elena. Once Elena spoke to Jeremy, she would have confirmation that Silas lied to her. So what would the point have been of such a scene other than taking up making out in front of Damon's car time? Damon and Elena talking about the Stefan/Elena dreams DID matter because of the whole Stefan/Elena past.

I agree with you on all of this. Except I'm not certain about the Jesse part. I was watching with a friend, so I wasn't watching as closely as I usually like to. I'll have to focus on those scenes when I rewatch before I post about it.

Caroline and Jesse were really ADORBS!

Some people are shipping Katherine/Jeremy?! I don't know... That's just a bit too close to actual incest for me.

Yes! And...I agree.

I wanted to let you know that my rl friend who I often watch the show with very much agrees with you. She said she wishes that Damon was the Silas doppelganger.

Yeah, I think Ian could have had a LOT of fun with it, but alas, had to give Paul something exciting to do. Too bad it's not quite working out. Too bad others are not impressed as well. :(
faith5by5_1013: The Vampire Diaries: Damon/Elena: Kissfaith5by5_1013 on October 15th, 2013 12:47 am (UTC)
Your reasons why they probably didn't address it make a lot of sense. And, yeah, a conversation after the fact was kind of unnecessary.
Arabian: Damon & Elena20arabian on October 20th, 2013 05:48 am (UTC)
Yeah, just reading comments and responding, and thinking more and more about it, it just really did make a lot of sense.
MaelJ0714: lipsmaelj0714 on October 12th, 2013 07:49 pm (UTC)
Great episode write-up, as always!!

While I liked the premiere better, this was a very good episode. Like you, I could’ve LOVED it except for one part – the rage scenes with Damon and Elena. I really appreciate you have an explanation and even better, a positive spin on it.

Yeah, it just didn’t work for me. Damon and Elena have had some incredible, emotionally-charged scenes with nothing to do with the supernatural (The Sacrifice, The Last Dance), which makes them so interesting to me. Their core values and goals are alike but their means to the end are so different. So Elena needing to address that Damon was keeping things from her, while probably agreeing with why he did it, was a scene I was looking forward to. Unfortunately, combining that issue with Silas’ method of having her kill Damon just made the whole thing a muddled mess. We know she didn’t want to kill Damon or hurt him – wasn’t even angry when he spewed vervain water on her to snap her out of the compulsion (Smart!Damon) -- so it stands to reason her other feelings were also manufactured by Silas: anger over Bonnie and Jeremy’s playing white knight, remorse over ‘rolling around’ with a serial killer. (Because after 4x06, I never felt she was guilty over loving Damon, even with the sire bond. But I digress. ) But all of this to me wasn’t clear enough and never addressed later. Instead, we got a short scene with Damon and Elena where all is well now, those issues were either discussed off-screen or not discussed at all, save for Damon’s comment about honesty. So, I think you were completely spot-on with your comment, "[Brian Young] can be such a dang clunky writer. He gets from point A to point H with such little finesse at times.” And it really kept a great episode from being awesome.

Just read your ETA - I totally agree. I wish this had been made clearer. :-)

On a side note, it was downright painful watching Elena shove that bottle of vervain water down Damon’s throat. And he did absolutely nothing to fight back, to not hurt her, knowing this wasn’t really Elena.

I didn't like how there was an implication in Elena's words that since they were now in a romantic relationship, Damon shouldn't be lying to Elena… as if Damon had lied to her regularly in the past.

This didn’t bother me so much as I viewed it as Damon trying to figure out what it means to be a good boyfriend and Elena letting him know right away that for her it is honesty. To our knowledge this is the first time Damon has ever been in a mutually loving relationship and he is trying to find his way. It was Bad Moon Rising all over again, when he lied about Jeremy because he was afraid of losing their tenuous friendship. While she was with Stefan, he was free to follow his instincts and be honest with her. Now that he has the relationship with her he’s always wanted, he’s keeping things from her that he thinks will upset her and cause him to lose her. And the only example Damon has ever had of a boyfriend is Stefan and we know how honest he was. So I loved that she and Damon resolved it right away. (apparently! – lol)

Hopefully Caroline will have a boyfriend come to visit soon… named Jesse!

I’m still holding out for Stefan and Caroline!!

Seriously, she and Damon just have this weird relationship now.

Okay, I admit I am one of those fans who is a bit tired of Caroline’s continued Damon-bashing to Elena, especially when Damon is not around to defend himself (not that he ever would). Damon never bashes Caroline to Elena outside of Caroline’s presence. But I do love Caroline and Damon like this together – the ‘friendly antagonism’ which, I think like Jeremy and Alaric, is the result of Caroline (finally!) seeing how Damon and Elena act together.

I love the comfortable familiarity they have with each other in this scene. Very similar to the scene in Rose where Damon is watching Caroline get dressed while talking about Tyler – not sexual, but comfortable in a way that reminds us just how intimate the two once were. For all her protesting, she opened her towel to adjust it in the mirror in front of him. And he picked out the cutest outfit for her to wear at the bonfire. :-D

And Caroline is a Drama major??? Bwahahahahah!!

Edited at 2013-10-12 08:07 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Damon14arabian on October 14th, 2013 09:51 am (UTC)
Great episode write-up, as always!!

Thank you. :)

While I liked the premiere better, this was a very good episode. Like you, I could’ve LOVED it except for one part – the rage scenes with Damon and Elena. I really appreciate you have an explanation and even better, a positive spin on it.</i>

Adding to my ETA with a lot more thoughts, I have more to that positive spin (although I still think the scenes could have been better written). Silas wanted to screw things up between Damon and Elena which is why Damon didn't even try and reason with Elena once he realized that Silas had gotten to her because he knew that trying to use him as a focal point was useless (which is why he used Stefan). Anything he tried to defend about himself would have just made Elena angrier because that's what Silas had put in her head (rage at Damon, kill Damon). The problem -- and this is where I have the issue with Young's writing -- is that I don't think that was made clear enough.

Silas basically got into Elena's head and made her want to rage against Damon and kill him. Damon knew that. Damon knew that EVERYTHING and ANYTHING he said about himself would just enrage Elena more. He knew that. There was literally zero point in trying to talk to her during that scene about him because she wasn't going to listen. It would make her angrier. Because that is what Silas had compelled her to do. So he had her focus on these dreams about Stefan -- because he was thinking about Stefan because of his own worry and because he was thinking about that since Caroline had mentioned it earlier.

And there was really no point in us seeing them talk about the Jeremy stuff because the entire conversation would have consisted of "Silas basically lied and twisted it all around, Elena." "Oh, yeah, that makes sense, what really happened?." Damon would then proceed to tell herself. She'd sigh, frown and then concede he made the right call. End of discussion. Would we *really* need to see that scene? No, we wouldn't. We as viewers already know that Silas lied to Elena. Damon knows that Silas lied to Elena. Once the compulsion was broken, Elena would know that Silas lied to Elena. Once Elena spoke to Jeremy, she would have confirmation that Silas lied to her. So what would the point have been of such a scene other than taking up making out in front of Damon's car time? Damon and Elena talking about the Stefan/Elena dreams DID matter because of the whole Stefan/Elena past.

So Elena needing to address that Damon was keeping things from her, while probably agreeing with why he did it, was a scene I was looking forward to.

But like I said above what would we have got from it? Honestly, Elena was doing the EXACT same thing to Damon. She was keeping something from him to keep him "happy-ish." So she would know exactly where he was coming from and vice versa.

I think you were completely spot-on with your comment, "[Brian Young] can be such a dang clunky writer. He gets from point A to point H with such little finesse at times.” And it really kept a great episode from being awesome.

Yeah, this is the bottom-line. Brian Young = clunky.

On a side note, it was downright painful watching Elena shove that bottle of vervain water down Damon’s throat. And he did absolutely nothing to fight back, to not hurt her, knowing this wasn’t really Elena.

And on the other end, Elena also stabbed a piece of wood into her leg to keep from staking Damon. Awww.

This didn’t bother me so much as I viewed it as Damon trying to figure out what it means to be a good boyfriend and Elena letting him know right away that for her it is honesty.

No, you misunderstood. It had nothing to do with Damon, but with Elena making that comment to "Stefan" aka Silas. But I realize now that it was Silas probably already messing with her head. Damon keeping stuff from her (in the last episode didn't bother me at all, I actually used the BMR argument with someone else) makes perfect sense to me. They're in a new stage of their relationship. Damon (and Elena) are gonna make missteps.

MaelJ0714: lipsmaelj0714 on October 12th, 2013 07:58 pm (UTC)
Part 2.

But I honestly can't decide what my favorite Katherine moment tonight was.

I absolutely LOVE human Katherine. From her “Need to pee…like, in a bathroom…like, a lady” comment to “Defeated by a sinus infection” to the two you mentioned, she was just hilarious and a delight to watch. And, yes, weird or not, I totally love her with Jeremy. Whether they are friends or romantically involved, I don’t care, they are just too cute together. (After all they aren't related - well, maybe she is a distant ancestor). And that would certainly make for some good conflict on the show.

My goodness, Nina Dobrev has just been awesome in these last two episodes! Even with Elena peaking in Caroline’s notebook trying to answer the microbiology question. SOOO FUNNY.

Speaking of unexpected ships, I could totally ship Matt and Bonnie! I was so glad he gave her that hug she desperately needed!

That hands bowed thing was soooo an Ian-thing and not a Damon-thing at all!

So funny so many people have noticed this! But Ian has said that Damon is like him; and as Damon is slowly gravitating from the bad vampire to good guy, I can see him being more like Ian. :shrugs:

Sorry, but Silas is boring. I blame Paul.

Agreed. Not nearly as good as last week.

Man, Stefan and Elena's sex life must have been so boring, even Stefan's Elena fantasies are PG

Stefan’s fantasy Elena – just WOW. I almost expected her to have an angelic glow and wings. So much like the description he gave of Katherine when he thought she was human. She is this two-dimensional, caricature version the real woman could never live up to. It’s kinda creepy. He just doesn’t know who the real Elena is at all.

Elena is following Damon's lead and is planning on infiltrating Whitmore College's inner circle somehow to figure things out the way Damon did in Mystic Falls. AWESOME. Following Damon's lead.

LOVE IT. And the comment about Jesse being unlike Tyler? So Damon-like. :-D

Am I the only one who thinks that the professor guy is gay?

Umm, no. I’m totally with you. LOL!

I loved that they were kissing so thoroughly. They've been a couple for roughly three to four months now and yet they are obviously still completely into each other. They don't care where they are, they don't care about anyone else. The passion is still there.

LUVVVV IT!!! Oh, to be one of the lucky womens’ to do a love scene with Damon. I love where he puts his hands. In those last two .gifs where his hand slides down her back to grip her hip? And keeps her close during the phone call? YUMMY. We’ve been told and shown by *many* characters that Damon is apparently SPECTACULAR in bed (and even by Damon himself – “It because you haven’t had sex with me.” Heehee), but it’s only as believable as the actor who plays him. So to that – DAMN, Mr. Somerhalder.

Overall, really good episode and, I think, better after your explanation of the one part I didn’t like. Thanks, again, for your excellent write-up!!
Arabian: Damon04arabian on October 14th, 2013 09:55 am (UTC)
I’m still holding out for Stefan and Caroline!!

Oh, of course. Stefan and Caroline are my #1 OTP for the other, but I know that is gonna take time and he's obviously still hung up on Elena. But I like Candice's chemistry with this dude way more than I ever did with either Zach Roerig for Michael Trevino (or even Joseph Morgan).

Okay, I admit I am one of those fans who is a bit tired of Caroline’s continued Damon-bashing to Elena, especially when Damon is not around to defend himself (not that he ever would). Damon never bashes Caroline to Elena outside of Caroline’s presence.

Not true. He bashes her to Elena, he's done it to, well, anyone when Caroline's name comes up. Basically if her name comes up in Damon's presence, he insults her. Pretty much EVERY SINGLE TIME. It's a two-way street. Damon treats Caroline as crappily as she treats him. And considering their history, she still gets some free shots. He has yet to apologize for what an utterly craptastic boyfriend he was to her.

the result of Caroline (finally!) seeing how Damon and Elena act together

Considering how she's still pushing for a Stefan/Elena reunion, I tend to think it's more because of the relationship between Damon and her mom.

Speaking of unexpected ships, I could totally ship Matt and Bonnie! I was so glad he gave her that hug she desperately needed!

Still all about Bonnie and Jeremy. And Matt for Rebekah or human!Katherine. :D

Not nearly as good as last week.

Eh, you know I wasn't impressed with Paul as Silas last week either. :Shrug:

So much like the description he gave of Katherine when he thought she was human.

OMG! I was thinking the EXACT thing earlier. I don't think he's actually truly fallen in love yet. He just has this idealized version of what LOVE is and it's not real. It's this fantasy. That's partly why I love Stefan/Caroline so much because when he looks at Caroline, he DOES see the real Caroline, not some angelic version of her.

He just doesn’t know who the real Elena is at all.

No, he does not!

RE: Gay-ish professor. Umm, no. I’m totally with you. LOL!

So, I'm not the only one, then.

Overall, really good episode and, I think, better after your explanation of the one part I didn’t like.

Hopefully my added thoughts have helped even more! :D
MaelJ0714: lipsmaelj0714 on October 18th, 2013 06:38 pm (UTC)
Adding to my ETA with a lot more thoughts, ….

Yes to ALL OF THIS. This was great. I think you have figured it out and that truly was the message the show was trying to get across. I just wish it had been as clear as what you described here. :-) It will certainly make rewatching this episode more enjoyable.

No, you misunderstood. It had nothing to do with Damon, but with Elena making that comment to "Stefan" aka Silas

I was talking about Damon withholding information and not about Elena’s comment to Silas. Sorry about that. :-( Sometimes, the brain goes off in the wrong direction! I agree, I think Silas was already messing with her head, too. :-)

Not true. He bashes her to Elena, he's done it to, well, anyone when Caroline's name comes up. Basically if her name comes up in Damon's presence, he insults her.

See, I just don’t remember those times, but I admit I’m new to TVD and haven’t watched it as much as you, so I won’t argue there! Damon absolutely deserves how Caroline treats him. He still demeans her at any possible opportunity and, no, has never apologized for how he used her. And we know he is quite capable of very heartfelt, sincere apologies (to Elena, Jeremy, Alaric). So, I love watching the two of them go at it and this friendly antagonism between them. (Great term.)

I guess what it’s really about for me, is what Caroline says to Elena, especially after Elena chose to be with him – the cheap shots, the guilt trips. Unlike Bonnie (loved her in 4x08), who didn’t particularly like Elena’s feelings for Damon but was supportive (or at least, not combative). But I get it. Bonnie is a different personality and doesn’t have the back story with Damon that Caroline has. And, I think, this IS Caroline’s version of a supportive friend. She is a doer and whether it is organizing proms or decade dances, making flash cards for Matt or casseroles for Jeremy's funeral, she wouldn’t be a good friend if she didn’t do and say everything she could to keep Elena from making a bad choice and getting hurt by this man. Which is what ultimately happened to her. Elena gets this and I think why she responds with only eye rolls and smiles. So, while I understand Caroline’s reasons, I just don’t particularly love her methods. :) With Elena. :) Regarding this. :)

I’ve also read that this is Caroline projecting guilt unto Elena over her feelings for Klaus, which is a fascinating theory. All of this just makes Caroline a more interesting and layered character. :-) Anyway…. (Sorry, yet another tangent!)
.
Hopefully my added thoughts have helped even more! :D

They did. :-D Looking forward to the next one!



Edited at 2013-10-18 07:14 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Caroline03arabian on October 20th, 2013 06:07 am (UTC)
this IS Caroline’s version of a supportive friend. She is a doer and whether it is organizing proms or decade dances, making flash cards for Matt or casseroles for Jeremy's funeral, she wouldn’t be a good friend if she didn’t do and say everything she could to keep Elena from making a bad choice and getting hurt by this man. Which is what ultimately happened to her. Elena gets this and I think why she responds with only eye rolls and smiles. So, while I understand Caroline’s reasons, I just don’t particularly love her methods.

And that's fair. But yes, this is how Caroline does things. This is her methods. And I'm not saying I like it. I'm not saying I appreciate it, but I get it. I totally, totally do.

I’ve also read that this is Caroline projecting guilt unto Elena over her feelings for Klaus, which is a fascinating theory. All of this just makes Caroline a more interesting and layered character.

It did seem as if they were heading there, but then of course the spin-off happened.
Alisha: Dr. Who (Nine/Rose) Smilekalishaka on October 13th, 2014 03:56 pm (UTC)
This episode was hilarious. I don't even know if I can talk about the actual progression of plot because all I want to do is flail about how funny it was. Katherine is wonderful. Hah. I love that you went on the ramble about the amazing that is Nina in this ep recap, where I flailed about it on the last one. (I know we are separated by time but shhhhhhh.) Further proof of this weird fandom mind twin thing we have going.

Trying to think of plot things to talk about....okay. You are spot on with the clunky dialogue thing in that scene. And while I felt Ian sold it....Nina fell a bit flat for me. And I know that was not her fault. She was trying so hard to work with what she had but it still just felt off. The overwhelming rage.... blegh. I mean I liked the idea of everything that happened in that scene. I liked that it was the two of them together fighting compulsion and winning. I like that Damon's only had words and faith in who Elena was at her core working for him. I loved that Elena secured herself to the chair, temporarily using pain to refocus herself. The elements were their...something about the execution just didn't work, because the lines felt forced...they were missing depth.

Matt! Bonnie! Jeremy! Katherine! No seriously everything about the road trip to save Katherine was perfect in every way. Those four rarely disappoint me as characters or actors and everything was wonderful. I have always been really drawn to the character dynamics between Jeremy and well everyone apparently. But Matt needs a purpose and I love by combining him with Jeremy it gives them a story focus all their own. It also therefore connects Matt to Bonnie and Katherine, both of which he has interesting story potential with. I don't even know if I am making sensical words anymore. But I love them.

Matt and Bonnie broke my heart. This is not the first time they have been in that situation, facing death together. Being outside the body together. It was a WONDERFUL call back to season one, intentional or not. And it speaks to their almost quiet understated friendship, which just punches me in the gut when I least expect it every time.

While I do feel a little weird in my Katherine/Jeremy shipping, (because ew elena/jeremy), I apparently cannot help myself. I love that she came back for them. I love that the 'that is why people treat you like an object instead of a person' seems to be what triggered it because it calls to her horrifyingly hilarious realization that she was the moonstone earlier in the episode. Really...I could just watch the Katherine show for ages and never be bored. She is wonderful.

I feel kinda meh about all the new characters. I don't dislike them, I am just not invested yet. I am however excited about someone that is not Tyler.

I am intrigued by the doctor...and the father connections.

Paul is just....no. But his eyebrow game was strong in the final scenes with the travelers. Also I don't know how I feel about having both Silas and Ripper!Stefan. Silas just seems sooo....he is so boring. I am not compelled by him. He has nothing that makes me want to follow him or that convinces me anyone would want to sign on with him. And he's written to be more interesting than that. On paper, I think I would enjoy him more and therefore I put the blame mostly on Paul. So I'm hoping if he is about to have to play Ripper!Stefan on top of that...he can at least make that work for me.

Also, just because I know I haven't really talked about it yet, I really don't mind the Stefan/Elena bond. I would never want to down play who they were to each other. And they are both doppelgangers, so it is to be expected. I be not bothered.

Onto Episode Three!
Arabian: Damon & Elena32arabian on October 16th, 2014 09:15 am (UTC)
This episode was hilarious

OK, I thought some of the Katherine stuff was funny, but I don't recall thinking of this episode as particularly funny, hmm.

You are spot on with the clunky dialogue thing in that scene.

Sigh, it really was. Double sigh.

And while I felt Ian sold it....Nina fell a bit flat for me. And I know that was not her fault. She was trying so hard to work with what she had but it still just felt off. The overwhelming rage.... blegh. I mean I liked the idea of everything that happened in that scene. I liked that it was the two of them together fighting compulsion and winning. I like that Damon's only had words and faith in who Elena was at her core working for him. I loved that Elena secured herself to the chair, temporarily using pain to refocus herself. The elements were their...something about the execution just didn't work, because the lines felt forced...they were missing depth.

Well, that was the god-awfulness that's Joshua Butler. I don't blame Nina. I blame the script and the director. Joshua Butler is REALLY not a very good director. He's servicable, but when the script has issues, his lack as a director really shines through and sometimes the actor just can't compensate. I do have to disagree, though, I thought both Ian and Nina did great though. :shrugs: I thought the scene worked as well as it did only because of the both of them.

Matt! Bonnie! Jeremy! Katherine! No seriously everything about the road trip to save Katherine was perfect in every way.

So agreed.

While I do feel a little weird in my Katherine/Jeremy shipping

Yeah, sorry, we part ways, because eww. And I'm all about Matt/human!Katherine.

Paul is just....no.

Silas just sucked so hard in these first episodes, but man, his PR was doing overtime because he was getting such good press, praise and kudos. :rme:

Also, just because I know I haven't really talked about it yet, I really don't mind the Stefan/Elena bond. I would never want to down play who they were to each other. And they are both doppelgangers, so it is to be expected. I be not bothered.

I didn't mind it, I expected it, I just wanted to hope that the writers didn't forget to continue to highlight Damon/Elena (and I was trying to appease the commenters here, LOL!).