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29 March 2013 @ 12:53 am
4.18 - 'American Gothic' (The Vampire Diaries)  
This is a pretty dang short TVD write-up, one of the shortest I've ever done. I'm rather shocked at myself, LOL!

It was odd because not a lot happened in this episode. Elena killed someone. Elijah has the cure, and is still in love with his “Katerina” (squee!) after all these centuries. And we know that Silas can totally mind-control even an Original. And that’s about it. I’m not used to this with The Vampire Diaries. I’m used to LOTS of stuff happening, or at least a lot of information being laid out in even lower-key episodes. But, yeah, that didn’t happen in this one. So, it was… odd.

Not bad, though. I just don’t have a lot to talk about it. So I’m just kinda start with some bulleted-thoughts and see where I go from there.

- The return of Elijah is entirely welcome for a few reasons. Firstly, Daniel Gillies looked really, really good. REALLY good. Secondly, he has such a debonair, worldly air about him that I adore. He’s so classic, old-school. There’s a quality to Elijah that just isn’t found in any other character on the show, so he’s always refreshing when he pops up.


And lastly… well, anyone who reads my TVD-thoughts knows that I positively loathe the idea of Elijah and Elena—it totally squicks me out. I find it gross. Yeah, gross. There really is no other word that does it justice. It’s just gross. So even though there was an Elena/Elijah kiss (SQUICK!!!!), it wasn’t really a kiss between them. Elena wasn’t expecting it and Elijah thought he was kissing Katherine. Or rather “his Katerina.” Because he’s still in love with Katherine! (SQUEE!!) And I’ve been holding onto my Elijah/Katherine dream since “Klaus” (from season 02, episode 19)… and fruition was reached! Booyah!

Katherine has been with Elijah for a few months. Katherine and Elijah have been together. (Excuse me while I do a little dance of joy!) And Katherine might actually have sorta, maybe meant it when she gave him the cure, wanting him to trust her. Of course, being Katherine, one can’t truly know if she was being real or not, but she might have been! And she told him she loved him. And she looked upset that she’d disappointed him. And he called her Katerina and admitted that for Katherine, yes, he was a fool. And, of course, for my pleasure, what he felt for Elena (even that letter as recited back) in retrospect played totally as how I had always seen Elijah’s feelings for Elena—practically paternal. So yeah, I totally loved that.


(Although, yes, I’m totally pouting that I was actually denied their reunion or even an Elijah/Katherine kiss, but sigh, they aren’t main characters, so I get it, but still… sigh.)

- Elena doing the deed. So, there ya go. Elena killed someone, just to show she could do it, just to teach the boys that they needed to stop forcing the cure on her. It was interesting where we were at with her. It’s like the little sojourn with Damon in New York when she hoped they were just going to have fun is over with now, so she's back to totally not caring. She had let some emotion in and was disappointed. Again, and again. And she’s just tired of it. So she’s settled back into the blank apathy that had filled her mostly after she first switched it off. There is another possibility at play too, of course. She wasn't with Damon throughout most of the episode.

In "Bring It On," she was more alive (for lack of a better word) only when with Damon. And that was the same case in "Because the Night." Other than grinning at Rebekah when they left New York, Elena was even rather blank when with only her. It was only when she was with Damon that we saw smiles and, well, emotion--despite her overall lack of emotion. And how she interacted with Rebekah, Katherine and Elijah was much more similar to her apathetic self from "Bring It On." In fact, I'd say the only time that we've seen her so emotionless around Damon is when Stefan is around too (the post-shower scene in BIO, and the final scene in this episode). Which makes me go hmmm........

Obviously, I'm not happy that Elena killed someone because when her switch is turned back on, she will regret it. She will feel terrible. But I have to applaud the show for going there with Elena. And I'm curious to see where we're going from here. I have been spoiled a bit to small degrees on episodes 16-20. However, I know nothing about episodes 21-23. I'm really hoping I can keep it that way! I like not knowing anything. :)

- So Stefan totally thinks that he is the center of the universe, doesn't he? I mean, it makes sense. He was such for his dad, for Damon, for Katherine, Lexi, Rebekah, Klaus, Elena (for a time), Caroline. No wonder he thinks the world revolves around him. I mean seriously every single bit of advice that Stefan gives to anyone revolves around how it affected Stefan, how he acted, reacted. It's ALL ABOUT STEFAN. Oh, Stefan. I love you boo, but really, he is incredibly self-centered. He truly is.

- Obviously I have no idea where they are going for the next few seasons, but it feels as if they are continuing to pull Stefan and Elena apart. (Yes, I did see the preview for next week... eh, it's Elena with her switch off, probably trying to (a) piss Damon off, or (b) prove a point because Damon's right, switch-off Elena is a bitch). Having Stefan flat-out say that once Elena gets the cure and is human, he's going to take off no matter what, well, OK, then. Whether or not, he'd actually do that (and even if she does get the cure, he obviously won't, duh!) or not, that he's even thinking that, to me, shows that Stefan is pulling away. He's slowly but surely falling out of love with Elena (if he's not already there). He still loves her (as she loves him), but it's not quite "in love" anymore.

On the other hand, Damon is sooo still there. He's selfish enough because of how much he wants her to have that weak moment where he doesn't want her to have the cure because he believes that he'll probably lose her if she becomes a human again. But he loves her enough to be willing to risk losing her if it means that she gets what he thinks she wants (the cure). And note that when Stefan said he was gonna ride off into the sunset, Damon so did not offer to join him. Of course not. Cuz he ain't leaving Elena. Nuh uh!

- I wonder what will finally make Rebekah decide to not want the cure. She's had Damon, Katherine and now Elijah in varying ways tell her that it won't give her what she wants.

- Damon really does not care about Rebekah at all. Had she not still been a vampire, she would be dead because Damon aimed that baby to kill.

- I just don't ship Klaus and Caroline at all. But at least they don't bore me. (Cough, cough *TylerCaroline* cough, cough) I get why Caroline acts as she does. As sarcasticcheese pointed out, sometimes you just connect to someone whether it's right or wrong, and Caroline has connected with Klaus. I hope that maybe they're using this to show that Caroline has managed to kinda wedge up a sliver of decency in Klaus and hopefully that will be expanded in The Originals, mostly through his siblings. And to open the door to a better Caroline/Damon relationship, and Caroline understanding about Elena with Damon.

- Katherine, Elena and Rebekah were awesome. All of the snark, all of the bitchiness, all of the cattiness, Rebekah and Elena tag-teaming Katherine, Elena FINALLY being able to keep Katherine in her place (thanks to the Original power of Rebekah). Don't get me wrong, I love Katherine, but she's a selfish, awful, terrible bitch and I adore Elena. It was so nice seeing Elena come out the victor. "I want your shoes." HEHEHEHEHEHEHE!

- No Matt, no Bonnie. Wah!

- So Silas can look like anyone? Hmmm. And Silas can control the mind of an Original. There's no way that Caroline's line about Silas being able to do that to Klaus, so what could he do to them was not foreshadowing. Uh huh, shivers!

- Dang, they like snapping necks on this show!

- "Complication here." HEE!

- Katherine compelling an entire town. Oh, Katherine.

- I don't quite have the feels with Rebekah and Elijah. I'm sure it will come because both Gillies and Claire Holt are fantastic actors, and are very charismatic, but I don't feel they have an instant connection like Holt and Joseph Morgan, Morgan and Gillies, heck even Nathanial Buzolic (Kol) and Morgan, Holt and Gillies. (Dude playing Finn barely interacted, so.....) But I'm not just getting that instant sibling vibe with Gillies and Holt. So, yeah, the feels weren't all there for me. But, again, I'm sure they'll segue into it quickly enough.

- So lots of characters to love this episode (Elena, Damon, Katherine, Stefan, Rebekah, Caroline, Elijah, eh, OK, Klaus too). There was some fantastic interaction between Klaus and Caroline, Rebekah/Elena/Katherine, Damon/Stefan, and that final scene with Elena was definitely a whoah! Because they actually went there. And, of course, after nearly two seasons, I finally got me some Elijah/Katherine!! (YEAH, BABY!)


So, yeah, I'm happy! :)
 
 
 
Bogwitch: TVD - Punk Damonbogwitch on March 29th, 2013 10:01 am (UTC)
Elijah. I can't bring myself to care, so moving on I thought this episode was okay; not as good as last week, but more even as I quite enjoyed watching Klaus suffer a bit (I still owe you another comment about last week, I typed up notes and everything!). All the stuff with the girls was excellent.
Arabian: Damon06arabian on March 29th, 2013 10:17 am (UTC)
Aww, yeah, if you're not an Elijah fan I can see how this wouldn't be your favoritest episode. I liked it, but I liked last week better too. But then I REALLY liked last week. Watching Klaus suffer was fun, and the girls were fantastic.

(Ooh, typed up notes and everything!)
(no subject) - bogwitch on March 29th, 2013 10:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on March 29th, 2013 11:00 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bogwitch on March 29th, 2013 11:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 8th, 2013 01:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
prettygirl5130: pic#119743568prettygirl5130 on March 29th, 2013 12:10 pm (UTC)
Yeah not feeling this episode to be honest. I'm not really liking this Elena. I just saw her as throwing temper tantrums and bring bitchy just because she wants to be and her point was lost on me at the end there with killing that girl. That isn't going to be on them it's going to on her ultimately. She's the one who feel guilt and it was poorly thought out on her part because she obviously didn't have an answer to stefans response to never giving up on her. I just saw someone who was being irrational and bitchy just because she's not getting her way. so now what? She's going to be cruel just because she can? It's not like anyone was holding her down or will be anytime soon....yeah not happy with off Elena to be honest.

I still love Rebekah.
I don't care for Elijah and I'm still wondering why Katherine is still alive after the Jeremy thing. Elena didn't even flinch when she threw Jeremy back in her face neither did anyone else. I was expecting a reactionout of someone but nada.
Arabian: Katherine03arabian on March 30th, 2013 03:20 am (UTC)
I still don't think we're supposed to like this Elena. Remember Damon is the truth-teller on this show and Damon called her a stone-cold bitch. And that's pretty much what she is. She's unlikable. She's not cool or snarky-badass, she's a mean bitch who's not that much fun and she generally has pretty much no emotion. Which is why I continue to be boggled when people say that Nina is playing Elena just like Katherine now. This Elena is not fun. She is not entertaining. She is not likeable.

her point was lost on me at the end there with killing that girl. That isn't going to be on them it's going to on her ultimately.

But her point was that she wants the boys to stop trying to force the cure on her. And she knows BOTH of them very well in this situation. She knows that Stefan takes the blame of bad deeds committed by others unto himself if there is any connection there. Every bad thing that Damon did, Stefan took the guilt for. She was very clearly telling Stefan that if he didn't back off, she was going to give him more baggage for his guilt. For Damon, she knows that he is thinking of her. She knows that if the switch is flipped, if she gets the cure that she will feel the guilt and that is what DAMON does not want to happen. And that is why Elena doesn't want the switch flipped or the cure because part of what she doesn't want to feel is the guilt.

I just saw someone who was being irrational and bitchy just because she's not getting her way.

No, she didn't do that because she wasn't getting her way. She did it so that Stefan (due to his guilt by association) and Damon (due to his wanting to keep Elena's soul clean) would stop trying to force the cure on her. She just wants to do what she wanted to do in New York with Damon. Have fun, drink, feed, be merry and not worry about guilt or grief. But because Stefan and Damon keep trying to find the cure and force it on her, she can't do that. She has to fight them, she has to figure out how to stay one step ahead of them.

By killing this woman, she showed them flat-out what the consequences were if they continued to push for the cure/flip-the-switch. Stefan does not want her to kill anyone else because he will blame himself for every death because (since the world revolves around Stefan in Stefan's mind) Elena wouldn't be what she is right now if it wasn't for him. Damon doesn't want her to kill anyone else because he knows that eventually that flip will be switched and she will have to deal with all the dead bodies she wracked up. She basically made her checkmate move on both brothers with one twist.

I don't care for Elijah

I'm wondering if love for this episode is wrapped up in love for Elijah.... Hmm.

Katherine is still around because they need to know where they cure is and if they kill her, they won't find it. As for Jeremy,why would Elena flinch about him? Not wanting to feel that grief over his death is why she flipped the switch. She had no reaction when she saw the memorial flyer thing about him. And everyone already knew about Jeremy and how he died, so why would anyone have any reaction to him or Katherine's part in his death? It's known. The only one who didn't know was Elijah, and he did react.

Edited at 2013-03-30 03:23 am (UTC)
(no subject) - prettygirl5130 on March 30th, 2013 04:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on March 30th, 2013 04:25 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - laudanumdream on March 31st, 2013 02:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on March 31st, 2013 03:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
faith5by5_1013: The Vampire Diaries: Damon/Elena: Kissfaith5by5_1013 on March 29th, 2013 01:39 pm (UTC)
I've never taken the whole Elena/Elijah shipper thing seriously. I know there are people who ship them, but there are people who ship every conceivable pairing on probably every show on television. I don't take most of those seriously either (although the thought of some of them has made me want brain-bleach). So, anyway, I was just indifferent to the whole Elena/Elijah thing because I don't take it seriously at ALL. The Elijah/Katherine parts were sweet though.

And note that when Stefan said he was gonna ride off into the sunset, Damon so did not offer to join him. Of course not. Cuz he ain't leaving Elena.

I loved that. I was very happy that Stefan seems no longer interested in Elena. In a romantic way, anyway. And very happy that Damon didn't even consider offering to join him. Of course he wouldn't. There's no question about where he wants to be.
Arabian: Damon & Elena20arabian on March 30th, 2013 03:25 am (UTC)
I wouldn't have taken it seriously did Daniel Gillies not talk a lot about it in season 02, and someone I had on my flist was like diehard for them, and decided non-stop that the show sucked because Elijah wasn't featured all the time, and because D/E happened and because Elena/Elijah hadn't happened so I've had to deal with it thrust on my flist on a very regular basis.

I was very happy that Stefan seems no longer interested in Elena. In a romantic way, anyway. And very happy that Damon didn't even consider offering to join him. Of course he wouldn't. There's no question about where he wants to be.

Me too. I sure hope we're reading this right!
(no subject) - faith5by5_1013 on March 30th, 2013 08:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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bangel_4e: olivia-doublebangel_4e on March 29th, 2013 01:45 pm (UTC)
I kind of liked this episode. I absolutely 100% LOVED Elijah, Katherine and Elijah/Katherine. My shipper heart...I've always thought they were so wonderful back when Katherine was human in the flashbacks. And you know, if Katherine is saying the truth...what a lovely turn for her, I would love to see them together.
And yeah, Katherine's a bitch and I ADORE HER. She's such a breath of fresh air and such an interesting, complicated, twisted character. I really love her.

Other stuff...my Klaroline heart ached a bit but I was pretty satisfied with their scenes, i liked them. Everything felt very in character and real. And the friends thing at the end..ahhh...I'm feeling content.

Elena..meh..I wasn't surprised when she killed that woman. And I have to say, when Stefan talked to her..she looked touched for a brief second, I saw emotions. And the she snapped cause honestly, I don't buy this complete off emotions. Something has to stay. And I saw something right after Stefan talked to her. And it was a nice speech. Nothing to say here. I thought Stefan was a little whiny in the beginning but I appreciated what he said about going away after giving her the cure. If that's what he really means, some of his selfish behavior "Elena-gets-the-cure-cause-I-want-her-that-way" is going away..and mainly, cause I also think he's not so in love with her anymore.

Which brings me back to the promo for next episode. I thought I was gonna be sooo mad. I am really not. First of all, it's a promo. They're misleading and don't give away such important things..seriously, WHY would Elena kiss Stefan right now? If not for spite or anything related? Really. And she doesn't feel for Damon..yeah, my ass. I think it's really weird that people truly believe it's for real. If it was (and I don't believe it), it wouldn't make any kind of sense and I'd be done with the show lol
And I'm still laughing at people who still say Damon/Elena needed a sire bond to happen. Ugh -.-

Damon...I liked Damon in this episode. When he let Rebekah take the cure I thought "WTF are you doing? Are you insane??" and then finally, he gave such a perfect explanation I was all fine with it. He made a mistake. Gave in. He was selfish for a second. But the fact that he was willing to kill Rebekah...eh..I don't know...that's heavy stuff. I mean, of course she's not friends with them but still..it left me a bit at unease...after the playful banter and stuff..I just really didn't expect it. OR maybe..I mean, if she was human and hurt her with a knife...he could've healed her so I think it's probably the latter. I hope so.


Things:

-No Matt. WHY????? But I'm sure we can see him next episode..ehh, I had such a great dream I was kissing Zach Roerig..winderful :)
-Loved the interactions between Katherine, Elena & Rebekah.
-I don't feel Rebekah/Elijah too...the chemistry's very low. Eh.

And I just hate the hiatus but for the first time after seeing a very worrying promo, I'm not worried. Come what may.

Edited at 2013-03-29 01:45 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Damon15arabian on March 30th, 2013 03:52 am (UTC)
Based on feedback I've seen here and there, it seems like love of the episode appears to be based on love of Elijah and/or Elijah/Katherine.

My shipper heart...I've always thought they were so wonderful back when Katherine was human in the flashbacks.

I fell sooooo hard for E/K after "Klaus." Seriously that episode just bowled me over!

And you know, if Katherine is saying the truth...what a lovely turn for her, I would love to see them together.

Alas, I'm not expecting anything even remotely approaching a happily-ever-after with them with The Originals coming up, and even though we may seen Nina guest-star on TO now and then, we won't see Katherine all that much whereas Elijah will be one of the lead characters. But I am glad that we at least got this.

And yeah, Katherine's a bitch and I ADORE HER. She's such a breath of fresh air and such an interesting, complicated, twisted character. I really love her.

Me too! (But I still love Elena--if not THIS Elena--more.)

Other stuff...my Klaroline heart ached a bit but I was pretty satisfied with their scenes

Considering where they are, who they are, I can see this hopefully being roughly where they'll be at as the season comes to a close and Klaus moves over to TO.

when Stefan talked to her..she looked touched for a brief second

I just rewatched and didn't see that. She looked like 'oh, he's talking,' then when he said that she hadn't give up on on him, her expression read to me as 'he's not listening, words aren't working, sigh.' Then she killed the woman.

I know that emotions are still there, but they're repressed. Elena just struck me as someone who was tired of having to explain herself and having to repeat herself, tired of having them tell her who/what she should be. She was done.

I appreciated what [Stefan] said about going away after giving her the cure.

Oh, I agree and I did like what he said, but it was still Stefan using arguments based on himself because everything revolves around Stefan.

I also think he's not so in love with her anymore.

butterfly said below that she thought his "in love" with her splintered when he found out she slept with Damon. And I can see that. It was happening, and it continued happening afterward, but that was the tipping point. It changed the image of who Elena was in his mind, as an Elena that he was in love with.

RE: Promo. I do think that it's about what I said above (she's trying to piss off Damon and/or play Stefan), but, I'm still annoyed, LOL! I just wanted one dance where Damon took her, where Damon was who she danced with, where DAMON and ONLY DAMON was her date. *sigh* I know it's not like there wasn't Damon/Elena stuff when Elena was with Stefan, I just hate S/E so much. I'll deal with it, but I'm not terribly looking forward to the next episode. Like I said, ah well.

I think it's really weird that people truly believe it's for real.

I'M SO GLAD THAT I RARELY DO TUMBLR! (Or read the other TVD blogs/ljs). How could anyone think it's real? Even when Elena kissed Damon last week, while I know that feelings are still there and she totally still loves/wants him, in that moment, when she kissed him... it wasn't real! She was playing him. He knew that too.

And I'm still laughing at people who still say Damon/Elena needed a sire bond to happen. Ugh -.-

Those are people who have essentially blinded themselves to the canon Damon/Elena relationship, especially throughout season 03. :shakes head:

the fact that he was willing to kill Rebekah...eh..I don't know...that's heavy stuff.

Rebekah killed Elena. Rebekah tortured Damon for hours. Rebekah has been trying to get in the way of getting Elena the cure. Rebekah is what led to where they were now because she gave away fully what he was doing with Elena in New York. Damon does not like Rebekah. She's caused him lots and lots and lots of problems, and Damon is NOT a good guy. Of course, he would kill her. If he hadn't tried to kill her, I think it would have been out of character.

And I just hate the hiatus but for the first time after seeing a very worrying promo, I'm not worried. Come what may.

Nice to read. ;)

Edited at 2013-03-30 04:11 am (UTC)
(no subject) - bangel_4e on March 30th, 2013 01:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on March 30th, 2013 09:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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alkja: pic#93120746alkja on March 29th, 2013 05:41 pm (UTC)
he has such a debonair, worldly air about him that I adore. He’s so classic, old-school.

I am more than done with the whole Original clan, but Elijah’s the only one I could marginally stand to have around a bit, because he’s the only one who seems to have actually lived for more than 20-30 years. The rest of them are such bratty, tantrum-throwers toddlers that it’s difficult to buy them as this ancient guys. Elijah shows actual maturity, to the point that he’s able to sympathize with the girl who killed his brother having lost her own.

Of course…

he’s still in love with Katherine!

… nobody’s perfect. The best thing about this was everyone jumping on the ‘Let’s Rag On Elijah About His Luuuurve For Katherine’ train: really, between the collective EWWWW at the news, Elena rolling her eyes and calling him an idiot and his baby sister basically losing all respect for him after this, the guy really needs a brotherly chat. Except Klaus will totally rag on him too.
Giggles aside, no matter how awesome and worthy of love Elijah is (no, how cute was he, noticing “Katherine’s” kicky new hairstyle?), this is Katherine we’re talking about. Katerina Petrova aka Katherine Pierce aka The Vampire With 3 Alphabets Worth Of Contigency Plans Always At The Ready: she could swear her love and change and growth and loyalty and trustworthiness and whatever while sitting on a chair made of the sacred books of every religion ever and I still would not trust her a bit. Especially when her success hinges on a guy and his feelings for her.
Elijah may want to distinguish Katerina and Katherine but I’m pretty sure it’s about as useful and appropriate as distinguishing between Stefan and the Ripper.

Elijah’s feelings for Elena—practically paternal

Elijahs’ sentimental shenanigans aside, I really loved his scenes with Elena. I have no doubt he would have skinned her alive for Katherine, but once negotiations were on he was pretty mellow considered the awful blood between his family and Elena, to the point he seemed genuinely worried/sad for her and to hear about her cleansing fire.
I think a tiny part of Elijah cannot help but connect Elena to Katherine not just because of their shared appearance, but because of their bloodline: Elena is Kat’s descendant. I could buy a little part of Elijah’s mind labeling Elena “Katerina’s baby times a hundred” and caring for her because of that.

Elena doing the deed. So, there ya go. Elena killed someone, just to show she could do it,

Sooner or later, Elena had to kill someone, the narrative practically demanded it. Still, my hat off to the writers for making it such a petty, cruel, spiteful act. This is not killing Conner or Kol, is not like Caroline killing the witches last ep: Elena didn’t have a single reason to kill that woman except to hurt and shock Damon and Stefan. Stone cold indeed.

Damon is sooo still there.

No power in the ‘verse can stop him from staying ‘til the bitter end, aka: the moment where Elena turns back human, bursts into tears and collapses into Stefan’s still-waiting-no-matter-what-he-says arms and chooses him all over again, possibly not hating Damon too much for all that happened because of him.

“How it will end”: a screenplay by Damon Salvatore.

Still, he will be there. To get his heart broken into thousands of pieces but he will be there.
Arabian: Damon & Elena(PR)01arabian on March 30th, 2013 04:05 am (UTC)
PART 1 --

I am more than done with the whole Original clan

I like Klaus way more than I did in season 02, early season 03, but I would be OK with his departure too. Obviously, I love Elijah, but I have to disagree with you when it comes to Rebekah. I adore that girl like WHOAH!!!!

it’s difficult to buy them as this ancient guys. Elijah shows actual maturity, to the point that he’s able to sympathize with the girl who killed his brother having lost her own.

Well, to be fair, Rebekah sympathized with Elena over Jeremy's death too because she understood. Also, I've long thought that a vampire's character/maturity-level is mostly set by who they were when they were turned. Rebekah was 17 when she was turned. Elijah was clearly in his late 20s/early 30s. Klaus in his early/mid 20s. So that's partly why their attitudes work for me.

this is Katherine we’re talking about.

But we DO know that Katherine does have that potential in her. She cried over drawings of her parents. She chose to help keep Klaus alive if it meant that Damon would live as well (by telling Stefan Klaus' contingency plan). She has been running for 500 years from Klaus, yet to save Damon, she gave up the best shot yet to take Klaus out. So we HAVE seen that Katherine has in it her. And Elijah knows about that second bit of info.

Elijah may want to distinguish Katerina and Katherine but I’m pretty sure it’s about as useful and appropriate as distinguishing between Stefan and the Ripper.

I don't think that's the same thing, though. Katerina is someone who she was when younger and more innocent, Katherine is who she has become because of her experiences in life. Stefan is ONLY the Ripper (and has ALWAYS been like that) when he's on a human, blood-lust tear. The Ripper side of Stefan is his addictive side. Katerina is literally someone who she was when she allowed herself to trust and be open. Katherine can still do that. She's just hardened, but we've seen that softness is still there.

I think a tiny part of Elijah cannot help but connect Elena to Katherine not just because of their shared appearance, but because of their bloodline: Elena is Kat’s descendant. I could buy a little part of Elijah’s mind labeling Elena “Katerina’s baby times a hundred” and caring for her because of that.

That's kind of how I've always seen it as well. His affection for Elena is very strongly connected to her connection to Katherine.

TBC
(no subject) - arabian on March 30th, 2013 04:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
alkja: pic#93120746alkja on March 29th, 2013 05:43 pm (UTC)
She's had Damon, Katherine and now Elijah in varying ways tell her that it won't give her what she wants.

Admittedly, of all the arguments Elijah’s was the absolute weakest: “Why must you always consider our family a burden?” Really, Eli? To the girl was has been manipulated, betrayed, daggered and almost killed multiple times by basically every family member?

Had she not still been a vampire, she would be dead because Damon aimed that baby to kill.

The hell was she expecting, though? She killed Elena. She screwed with a lot of plans. She knows Damon would throw himself into a fire to give Elena that Cure and everybody and their goldfish has told her that without her vampiredom she’s fucked. Why would she take it in his proximity? Why not zoom away and take it safely elsewhere? Frankly, I would have been disappointed if he hadn’t tried to kill her.

Katherine, Elena and Rebekah were awesome. All of the snark, all of the bitchiness, all of the cattiness,

That was amazing. Three vampires and they basically act like a clique of high school mean girls (impalement by fork aside.)

Elena FINALLY being able to keep Katherine in her place (thanks to the Original power of Rebekah).

And still, believe it or not, there are people bitching at Elena for daring to be smug about having Rebekah to toss Katherine about. You know, Katherine. The woman who just killed her brother for zero reasons except she felt like it (she already had the Cure). Yeah, how dares she gloat at seeing her impotent in the face of someone stronger than her. I swear I just can’t with the Elena haters…

So Silas can look like anyone?

Silas is totally the First Evil! Called it.

Katherine compelling an entire town. Oh, Katherine.

No kidding, that was kinda awesome in all its grossness. Still, girl didn’t survive by messing around.

But I'm not just getting that instant sibling vibe with Gillies and Holt.

The vibe is different, but I’m all for it. Personally I ascribe it to the fact that, like I said, Elijah is the only one to show some centuries old gravitas. The others have the ‘squalling brats’ vibe, here we have some genuine ‘big brother talking to baby sister’ vibe.
Arabian: Damon & Elena(PR)04arabian on March 30th, 2013 04:11 am (UTC)
The hell was she expecting, though?

Not just her, someone above was surprised that Damon would try to kill Rebekah. To wit I asked: Why? Because...

She killed Elena. She screwed with a lot of plans. She knows Damon would throw himself into a fire to give Elena that Cure and everybody and their goldfish has told her that without her vampiredom she’s fucked.

YUPPERS!

Why would she take it in his proximity? Why not zoom away and take it safely elsewhere?

I honestly don't think she was thinking, LOL! She just wanted it and it was there in her hands. She just took it.

Frankly, I would have been disappointed if he hadn’t tried to kill her.

Right, I said above that it would have been OOC if he hadn't tried to kill her.

RE: Katherine/Rebekah/Elena -- That was amazing. Three vampires and they basically act like a clique of high school mean girls (impalement by fork aside.)

Yes.

And still, believe it or not, there are people bitching at Elena for daring to be smug about having Rebekah to toss Katherine about. You know, Katherine. The woman who just killed her brother for zero reasons except she felt like it (she already had the Cure). Yeah, how dares she gloat at seeing her impotent in the face of someone stronger than her. I swear I just can’t with the Elena haters…

Of course. I just can't with the Elena haters either. Katherine is TERRIBLE. Awful. Elena is (with her switch on) a wonderful, giving, caring person. But no, Katherine's teh awesome and Elena is lame. What. Ever. (And I say this loving Katherine, but YOU GO, ELENA!)

Silas is totally the First Evil! Called it.

Sure looks like it!
Diana: Vampire Diaries - Road Trip!butterfly on March 29th, 2013 05:49 pm (UTC)
Stefan is so over Elena. It's almost funny how everyone else on the show keeps using the "Elena will love Stefan if she's human again" thing as a goad against Damon because... Stefan is so over Elena. When he found out that Elena slept with Damon because she is love with him, I think it broke the last shreds of hope for him -- just like Katherine telling Damon she'd never loved him broke his for her in 2x01 (which I think she regretted later when she tried to manipulate him and failed, lol).

Two parties are required for an actual relationship to exist and Stefan is Not Interested.

I really liked Daniel Gillies' hair in this episode. He was a lot hotter than I remember him being last time he was on the show. And I totally squeed for you in the Katherine/Elijah reveal. ♥
Arabian: DE & Alaric01arabian on March 30th, 2013 04:14 am (UTC)
I really agree with you re: Stefan and his "in love" stage with Elena and when it happened. That was when it splintered. Before then, it was happening, and it continued happening afterward, but that was the tipping point. It changed the image of who Elena was in his mind, as an Elena that he was in love with, could be in love with.

Two parties are required for an actual relationship to exist and Stefan is Not Interested.

Lordy, I hope we're right!

RE: Elijah, as much as I've always loved him, I did not love his hair before. Now, it looks fabulous!!

SQUEE!!! ELIJAH AND KATHERINE!!!! ♥

Cassandra Elise: doctor/rose cassandra_elise on March 29th, 2013 08:44 pm (UTC)
My Elijah/Katherine heart imploded during this episode. I kept squeeing at the TV about my previous "Kaljiah," which had my sister going, "Is that a real thing?" And then I had to explain how the internet has mushed all of the characters' together to create truly ridiculous monikers. LOL

I loved this episode mainly because Elijah and Katherine were in it. In spite of the heavy Damon/Elena scenes we got last week, I just wasn't feeling last week's episode. This week I found it vastly more interesting despite the fact that we got way less plot development. Elena is really annoying, but I think that's the point. This isn't who she's supposed to be. We're supposed to long for Human Elena again.

The promo has me raging mostly because I know it's completely misleading. Now we have to wait three weeks to see how those prom scenes really play out. *grumble grumble*
Arabian: Elijah & Katherine02arabian on March 30th, 2013 04:20 am (UTC)
My Elijah/Katherine heart imploded during this episode.

CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?!?!?!??! I have to say that I sorta can, LOL! I keep saying that the show doesn't just "drop" storylines, but rather waits until it's the right time to address them. And I knew that eventually we would see SOMETHING with Katherine and Elijah because of what happened in "Klaus."

Obviously I loved K/E in this, but I did LOVE D/E last week because there was so much running under the currents in their scene and their story that I adored it.

Elena is really annoying, but I think that's the point. This isn't who she's supposed to be. We're supposed to long for Human Elena again.

Absolutely agreed.

RE: Promo. I do think that it's about what I said above (she's trying to piss off Damon and/or play Stefan), but, I'm still annoyed too! Ah well. I just wanted one dance where Damon took her, where Damon was who she danced with, where DAMON and ONLY DAMON was her date. *sigh* I know it's not like there wasn't Damon/Elena stuff when Elena was with Stefan, I just hate S/E so much. I'll deal with it, but I'm not terribly looking forward to the next episode. Like I said, ah well.
jamdourado: pic#118144550jamdourado on March 30th, 2013 04:15 am (UTC)
Kalijah!!!!!!!! So many feelings!!!! I'm still unsure about Kat's motive when she gave Elijah the cure, I just had a feeling she was doing what he hoped she'd do.

I want more Rebekah and Elena, these girls are awesome together, hope we get more of them until the season finale.

Elena killing that woman was unexpected and I liked it??? That girl is mean!!! And she's totally like season one Damon. And Damon doesn't want Elena to take the cure. This is getting good.
Arabian: Elijah & Katherine03arabian on March 30th, 2013 04:28 am (UTC)
So happy to get canon Katherine-Elijah! WHEE!!! Well, we DO know that Katherine does have that potential in her. She cried over drawings of her parents. She chose to help keep Klaus alive if it meant that Damon would live as well (by telling Stefan Klaus' contingency plan). She has been running for 500 years from Klaus, yet to save Damon, she gave up the best shot yet to take Klaus out. So we HAVE seen that Katherine has in it her. And Elijah knows about that second bit of info. So I'm going to hope that she meant it. Although, I'm not expecting a happy ending here, LOL, I'm still going to enjoy that we got this!

Oh, I'm so bummed about Rebekah going to TO, can't she stay on TVD!?!?!??! I so want Elena and Rebekah as besties! Sigh.

I don't think that Elena is like season 01 Damon. Season 01 Damon did have his switch off, but he was having fun. I'd say that Elena in 4.17 was the closest to like season 01 Damon. This Elena was too calculated, too cold. Even with his switch off, Damon was never anything less than passionate.
(no subject) - prettygirl5130 on March 30th, 2013 12:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on March 31st, 2013 12:54 am (UTC) (Expand)
La vida de lloronalaudanumdream on March 30th, 2013 09:27 pm (UTC)
I didn't really have much to say about this episode either, but there was something that directly reminded me of you!

Caroline got it all out on the table with Klaus. I felt like that needed to happen, and it did.

I honestly thought the Katherine/Elena thing was going to flop because I've usually felt like Nina Dobrev was over-acting with Katherine, but actually it turned out quite well, in my opinion.

That is all.
Arabian: Katherine04arabian on March 31st, 2013 12:57 am (UTC)
Caroline got it all out with Klaus, but I'm still waiting for some Damon-realization and how unfair she is to him still.

Wow! I'm really surprised that you would think Nina overacts with Katherine. I've NEVER saw it that way. Yes, Katherine is over the top, but I've always seen that as KATHERINE over the top, putting on a show so that no one can really see the real her. Those moments where we do see that real Katherine is so subtle and well-played that I've just seen Nina playing Katherine playing, well, "Katherine." Hmm, to each their own. :)
(no subject) - laudanumdream on March 31st, 2013 01:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
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archangel_blood: Elena mirrorarchangel_blood on March 31st, 2013 08:28 pm (UTC)
I don’t know what it was about this episode, because yeah, nothing huge or earth-shattering happened, but I absolutely loved it anyway. From the unanimous “Ugh!” reaction to the news that Elijah was Katherine’s friend, to Elijah’s “Complication speaking,” I loved 4x18 and everything it chose to be.

Yes, I do think my feelings about it have a lot to do with the fact that I’ve always been a fan of Elijah, Katherine and E/K. So every time they were on my screen, I was happy.

I have to say that I wasn’t entirely convinced in Katherine’s honesty, even after she gave him the cure, but that’s Katherine for ya. However, I do think that if she is still able to love anyone besides herself at this point, it would be Elijah. He is the only person in her life who has consistently shown her nothing but acceptance and kindness, from her naïve “peasant girl” self to her current, not-that-loveable version. And I think she knows that, so for her it’s much more than just Katherine playing yet another man.

Switch-off!Elena is not likeable, and I agree that we’re not supposed to like her, but I still find her amusing. I don’t see it at all when people say she’s manipulative and calculating though. She’s nothing like switch-off!Damon, but she is still more like Damon in that she’s impulse-driven and result-oriented, rather than careful-and-elaborate-planning type of person like Katherine. IMO, Elena knows what she wants right now, and she’s not willing to let anyone stand in her way. She’s not really subtle about it either. I mean, even when she tried to be manipulative, she failed, HARD (as did Damon by the way, their trying to play each other in 4x17 was as lame as it was hilarious. “Watch me try to trick you, whatcha gonna do about it?” lol)

Still shipping Klaus and Caroline; can’t help it – I simply like their chemistry.

I don't quite have the feels with Rebekah and Elijah.

I am getting the sibling vibe with them, it’s just more muted. Then again, I don’t find the Klaus/Rebekah vibe sibling-like at all, so maybe I’m not the right person to talk about this :D

Not sure if I’m excited about the next episode. Guess I’ll have to wait and see.
Arabian: Damon & Elena23arabian on March 31st, 2013 10:59 pm (UTC)
I don’t know what it was about this episode, because yeah, nothing huge or earth-shattering happened, but I absolutely loved it anyway.

I knew about the possibility of the Elena/Elijah kiss (even as it played out) and I was NOT looking forward to that so it kinda dinged my enthusiasm. * I'll see how I feel when I rewatch it. I'm thinking I'll like it a lot more. There was so much that I did love about the episode. I just think that with the downer-pre-show attitude, pretty much no D/E, and then that awful promo (LOL!), I just wasn't given that huge lift from the episode. Again, a rewatch will help, I'm positive.

* This is why I don't want to be spoiled AT ALL anymore. I like just taking what happens as it happens instead of being worried about what may or may not happen, you know?

Yes, I do think my feelings about it have a lot to do with the fact that I’ve always been a fan of Elijah, Katherine and E/K. So every time they were on my screen, I was happy.

Yup, again, rewatch because until the 2nd Katherine/Elijah scene, I was all wrapped up in my ugh feelings about Elena and Elijah.

I have to say that I wasn’t entirely convinced in Katherine’s honesty, even after she gave him the cure, but that’s Katherine for ya.

I am only not entirely convinced because, yeah, it's Katherine, but hey, Jose Molina (co-writer of episode) when asked if Katherine was playing Elijah, said something like Katherine wouldn't play someone (ie, Elijah) she truly loved. So until proven wrong, I'm taking it that she meant it. And she DID give him control over her freedom. Yes, if he buys it, it gives her what she wants... BUT that's giving control over her freedom to someone else. So I'm more inclined than usual to believe that she DID mean it.

However, I do think that if she is still able to love anyone besides herself at this point, it would be Elijah. He is the only person in her life who has consistently shown her nothing but acceptance and kindness, from her naïve “peasant girl” self to her current, not-that-loveable version. And I think she knows that, so for her it’s much more than just Katherine playing yet another man.

Then there's this too! :)

Switch-off!Elena is not likeable, and I agree that we’re not supposed to like her, but I still find her amusing.

There are moments I find her amusing too, but I just miss the real Elena so much.

I don’t see it at all when people say she’s manipulative and calculating though. She’s nothing like switch-off!Damon, but she is still more like Damon in that she’s impulse-driven and result-oriented, rather than careful-and-elaborate-planning type of person like Katherine.

Agreed.

IMO, Elena knows what she wants right now, and she’s not willing to let anyone stand in her way. She’s not really subtle about it either. I mean, even when she tried to be manipulative, she failed, HARD (as did Damon by the way, their trying to play each other in 4x17 was as lame as it was hilarious. “Watch me try to trick you, whatcha gonna do about it?” lol)

LOL! Very true. (Aww, I missed hearing your thoughts about the last episodes!)

Not sure if I’m excited about the next episode. Guess I’ll have to wait and see.

I'm not excited AT ALL about S/E, but I'm just telling myself (a) it doesn't mean anything because Elena has made it clear that Stefan's all 'ugh' to her right now, so whatever is going on is likely about playing him or pissing Damon off/"proving" to him she doesn't care (which if the it's the latter, especially the second one, it actually totally proves that she does care), and (b) when S/E were together there were D/E stuff so it's gonna have to happen on the reverse. On the other hand, Nina looks gorgeous, I have hope for Matt/Rebekah stuff (please!!!) and it was co-written by Caroline Dries who is usually my favorite TVD writer. (I'm just trying to put out of mind what happened the last time she wrote a dance-themed episode ("Dangerous Liaisons") and how it was NOT good for my D/E.)
(no subject) - archangel_blood on April 1st, 2013 08:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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aurora7948/Celestial Aurora: Faerieaurora7948 on April 2nd, 2013 04:17 am (UTC)
PART I
Ok, it's been a while since I've put in my 2 cents on the show, but I have been keeping up with your posts (and completely loving them!).

Superficial stuff first:

I don't like Bonnie right now. Even though last episode wasn't her fault, she did continue to use expression even though she had to have known that it wasn't right. Witches are supposed to keep the balance in this show and expression is definitely out of balance. So I'm really ok that there was no Bonnie. And I'm ok with no Matt too. He was never my thing anyways. (But I STILL miss Jeremy *sob sob still can't believe they really killed him sob sob*.)

I LOVED the scene with Caroline and Klaus where she screams at him that she should have turned her back on him ages ago. OMG, this scene, loved it. Well acted, perfect timing and made me go "Holy Smokes! You go Caroline!" I have to admit, I do kind of 'ship her and Klaus. I don't like her and Stefan. I see them more as siblings. I really started to dislike her and Tyler this season. I don't know why but I definitely did not like them together. And I used to like them together. Don't know what happened but the chemistry just disappeared for me. So, while I know that these 2 won't be together, K/C make for some intriguing moments of drama and tension.

Seriously, was I the only one who realized that what Rebekah took was in no way and no how would never be the cure? Katherine is not THAT stupid. And also, poor, foolish Elijah: "She lied." "Not to say I told you so but, duh!" Loved it.

Alright, even I am questioning now why the heck Rebekah wants to take the cure so badly. Yeah, yeah, she wants to be in control of her own life/death. But really, that's the best she could come up with? Everyone who has tried to talk her out of it so far is right. And I think Katherine was pretty insightful about it too, though a little (or a lot) cruel about it by saying that it won't "fix" her problems.

Now with the deeper stuff. I HATE this Elena. I understand why she is like this, I understand why the writers are making her like this and I think it's going to go a long way to resolving the whole D/E sire bond issue (which I know doesn't exist but they haven't explicitly resolved it in the show yet). But, what makes Elena a great character and someone that we can love IS her compassion. Like Elijah says, it is her gift. But Elena's got some MAJOR demons. And she hasn't dealt with a lot of them. She has continued moving forward, pushing past them, because she's had to. But she has not yet dealt with them and broken down because she has always been the strong one for everyone else. And she was just finally so overwhelmed (because she feels so much for others) that she cracked (and turned her switch off). Anyone who has experienced loss, extreme guilt, anger, self loathing (she's got a lot of that going on because of what has happen to all her friends "because of her") can tell you that there are times when you honestly and truly do believe that it would be better and easier to turn off those emotions than the live with them. In a way, Elena's turning off of her emotions is similar to committing suicide; it stops the pain of having to feel. So I completely understand why she's choosing this, why she doesn't want to feel anything.

Like you've said, she does still feel and she's had flashes of emotions with Damon, hoping that he'll relax with her, let her have fun, etc. The Elena that we have right now does not want any demands on her. She wants to be free for once (funny that that's exactly what Katherine wants too but more on this later). She wants to not be the cheerleader and miss perfect (prior to her parents dying), to not be responsible for someone else's happiness (Matt and Stefan), to not think or have to try to outsmart some new villain or figure out how to keep everyone's secrets, to not always have to do the "right" thing. She just wants to have fun and be free. And she wanted to do it with Damon. I think that had he truly just been taking her to NYC just for the fun of taking her to NYC, she might have started feeling again. Maybe only a little, but it would have been a start. (BTW, I LOVE her hair. It's exactly what I want mine to look like, red highlights included....*sigh* darn grown-up job...)
prettygirl5130: pic#119743568prettygirl5130 on April 2nd, 2013 07:52 pm (UTC)
I also can't stand this Elena but I get why and how they're making me dislike her as a viewer and I have a feeling that she will only get worse in the next episode. I think the writers are setting us up to absolutely side with the boys by the end of this and just be desperate for Elena to be cured only for the cure to slip between everyone's fingers and all of the viewers screaming NO because we all wanted it. It's kind of funny how they've played with out views of this cure throughout the season. At first most of the fandom and the viewers absolutely despised the idea and was completely against it. Then we all sort of wanted it but only because we needed the bond to be broken and now everyone is fighting over what the boys should do, respect her wishes or give her the cure because we know onElena wouldn't like any of this. I think after prom pretty much everyone will be unanimous on Elena getting that cure whether she likes it or no LOL!

But i'm getting away from why I originally replied to this post....I just wanted to point out that yes it was sweet that ELena wanted to have fun and let go with Damon and she certaintly knows her Salvatore brothers more than anyone at the moment, but I think we all have to remember 4.4 because during that episode much of what was happening in 4.17 happened in 4.4 and what was Elena's reaction to the partying, feeding and sexual tension with Damon? She flipped out, started crying and the entire night ended with Elena telling Damon truthfully that she doesn't want to be like that, even though she knows it makes the most sense in order to surive as a vampire. The writers have basically created the first half of the season to mirror the second half. One has onElena and the other has offElena so we as an audience and the other characters have some reference points in what on Elena wanted vs what offElena wanted. I think we have to remember the differences and go from there because ultimately on Elena really is the real Elena as you already stated in your post....compassion was her gift and without compassion who is Elena?

So, i'm going by what onElena would have wanted and what she made clear in the first half of the season and i'm thinking that the boys are in the right for doing what they're doing...it's what onElena would have wanted.
(no subject) - arabian on April 7th, 2013 04:05 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 7th, 2013 03:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
aurora7948/Celestial Aurora: Faerieaurora7948 on April 2nd, 2013 04:27 am (UTC)
Part II

I know you feel that there wasn't much that happened in this episode, but I disagree. There wasn't a lot that was OVERT that happened but I think we got to see some different sides to some old characters, mostly Elijah and Katherine and Elena, but still. (Yay for Elijah being back! Even if it is only a brief stint. God did he look HAWT. I never used to be attracted to him before but tonight...dang. He was fine. Especially his scenes with Elena where you could see the sadness at her turning off her emotions.) But I think that there may have also been some ground work for something else between Katherine and Elena.

Now, I could be completely wrong in this but I have a theory regarding Elena's compassion and Katherine's apparent lack thereof. I have no idea how far off I may be but....Elena and Katherine are doppelgangers, right? A lot of the lore of doppelgangers says that the mirror images are, in some way, linked. For instance, one can feel when the other is in pain. Well, we have gotten a bit of that (when the boys tried to kill Katherine but couldn't because it also hurt Elena) but there's another type of link that I'm wondering about.

In the conversation between Elena and Elijah, Elijah mentions in this episode that he wants to think that the girl he knew before is still in there. But I thought it was really curious that Elena says that the sweet, innocent girl that Elijah knew is gone. But Katherine also says that she doesn't even remember who she was before. Basically, they were both saying that those girls are not coming back. That they are "gone". But at the same time, they were mirroring each other's feelings but on opposite ends of the spectrum. Wanting to "find her" and not wanting to "find her". However, they both desire nothing more than their freedom.

Those 2 things and the scene where Katherine gave the cure to Elijah, in which I was actually not sure if it was Elena or Katherine (until Elena was with the boys in the next scene) because of the red lights in the background casting a red tint on her hair and the differences in her mannerisms and attitude towards Elijah, got me thinking...

It is so important for Elena and Katherine to be portrayed differently that I believe that any similarities that weren't intentional would have never been put as the final cut of a scene. I think they would have been shot and shot and re-shot until that scene came out right. And so far, I have seen Elena and Katherine as very different in their poise, their mannerisms and their demeanor. But, here, there was some overlap. Katherine had, for a moment, the softer look of Elena. And Elena, definitely had the harder, more calculating look and bitchy attitude of Katherine. And I think those overlaps were intentional.

So I guess what all of this rambling has been leading up to is this: I'm wondering if maybe, since I don't think we still fully understand the way that doppelgangers work, that maybe Elena and Katherine are, in fact, 2 sides to the same coin. Elena's big thing has always been her compassion. Katherine has never had compassion (that we've seen). As Elijah points out, she even killed Jeremy (for all intents and purposes) even though she knows exactly what it's like to lose everyone you call family. Katherine cares only for herself and has for centuries. Now, Elena turns off her emotions, losses her compassion, and suddenly Katherine is starting to have emotions....possibly caring for someone besides herself (she looked genuinely upset that she had disappointed Elijah and she did give him the cure at the end...though that may be just another scheme)? I don't have a whole lot more to go on at this point but I wonder if maybe Elena and Katherine are linked emotionally, if they are maybe emotional balances for each other. Elena was all emotion, Katherine was none. Now Elena is no emotion and Katherine is starting to feel again...Katherine was so "evil" because she was out of balance (maybe because she was only 1 half of the doppelganger). Potentially, maybe, (yes I know this is a stretch) they are each a half of Tatia? I don't know, this is just something I'm pondering.
Arabian: Elijah & Katherine03arabian on April 7th, 2013 03:52 am (UTC)
I know you feel that there wasn't much that happened in this episode, but I disagree.

No, I meant plot-wise. A lot happened character-wise, yes, but not plot-wise, with information and key things moving the plot along.

Now, I could be completely wrong in this but I have a theory regarding Elena's compassion and Katherine's apparent lack thereof. I have no idea how far off I may be but....Elena and Katherine are doppelgangers, right? A lot of the lore of doppelgangers says that the mirror images are, in some way, linked.

I don't see that because we've seen Katherine feeling and having emotion even when Elena had feeling/emotion (looking at her parents, moments with Stefan and Damon throughout season 02 and 03). And I don't know, I just don't see it.

In the conversation between Elena and Elijah, Elijah mentions in this episode that he wants to think that the girl he knew before is still in there. But I thought it was really curious that Elena says that the sweet, innocent girl that Elijah knew is gone. But Katherine also says that she doesn't even remember who she was before. Basically, they were both saying that those girls are not coming back. That they are "gone". But at the same time, they were mirroring each other's feelings but on opposite ends of the spectrum. Wanting to "find her" and not wanting to "find her". However, they both desire nothing more than their freedom.

I think the point of that was two-fold: To show the possibility of what could happen to Elena if she keeps her switch off for so long (buried to be nearly impossible to be found like Katherine), and to show that, yes, Katherine still does have that "Katerina" buried deep down in there.

maybe Elena and Katherine are, in fact, 2 sides to the same coin.

Maybe they'd go for that if they were the only two, but there was also Tatia. I just don't think they're going there. Sorry. :(
tj2013tj2013 on April 2nd, 2013 07:13 pm (UTC)
A lot of what I have been thinking on the episode has already been discussed, (I liked the ep, not much action, but a lot of atmosphere and interesting in-between-character-dynamics) but I wanted to share one thought I was discussing with a friend who was kind of worrying about Damon and his character arc being stuck. I don't think so, I see him learning, re-evaluating everything every minute. And he has to learn to let Elena make her own decisions and to understand that they are really her decisions. Because that is going to make her actions credible as soon as she switches her feelings back on. Damon will need to believe her and this will only work if he accepts her actions and decisions as truly hers.
And by the way: I am not letting myself being worried by the promo. No way. They love to torment us, especially over a hiatus... LOL.
Arabian: Damon04arabian on April 7th, 2013 04:07 am (UTC)
Oh, I agree with you. We are definitely seeing stuffs with Damon and his arc. In addition to what you say, we're also seeing him (and this is more negative) not trusting his instincts for the first time. His instinct was to not end the sire bond with Elena, but he's been working towards that because Stefan is telling him to do so. His instinct is to not force the cure on Elena, but Stefan is pushing for it. However because of the sire bond, it's completely screwing with his instincts because he's afraid of wanting and being left wanting. But yeah, totally, we are continuing to see great Damon cahracter stuff.

I am not letting myself being worried by the promo. No way. They love to torment us, especially over a hiatus... LOL.

True dat!
La vida de llorona: delenalaudanumdream on April 3rd, 2013 12:35 am (UTC)
I just had to tell you because you're the first person that popped into my head when I saw this.

Candice Accola posted on Facebook that TVD was cancelled and there was no Season 5... then I found out it was an April Fool's joke - except that it's April 2 and it didn't show up on my feed until just now so I just about had a heart attack!
Arabian: Alaric01arabian on April 3rd, 2013 02:10 am (UTC)
OMG! She's awful!!! THAT CAN NOT HAPPEN! So glad I did not see that! I would have cried even though I knew it couldn't be true!!!
(no subject) - ghidorah15 on April 3rd, 2013 03:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - laudanumdream on April 4th, 2013 02:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
eolivet on April 3rd, 2013 04:01 pm (UTC)
I liked this ep, but I can see why you didn't have a lot to say about it. It was pretty straight-forward -- really good, but the most shocking thing to me (who was spoiled via simply articles on headlines that Elijah was coming back) was Rebekah taking the fake cure. My heart absolutely broke for her there. I really believe her when she says she wants to be human, and even when Katherine was trying to talk her out of it, I just kept rooting for her -- even though I knew she'd never get it. I don't think she'll be human when she goes to the spinoff, but "Rebekah finally becomes human" has been added to my list of TVD universe endgame wishes. :)

I still like Klaus/Caroline. I read Klaus/Hayley differently from you -- I think it was a power thing, with no feelings involved. He and Caroline aren't exactly close to dating, so IDK -- it read to me like Damon/Andie's hookup. Bored, lovesick vampire seeks distraction from the girl he can't have. But Caroline is under his skin (literally, in this case). Their scenes are like a powder keg, and at this point, if we don't get one decent kiss before The Originals (not expecting a ship, just a kiss) I'll be really annoyed.

I was wondering if Stefan has taken on more of a truth-telling role now that Damon is involved with Elena, and possibly a bit biased? He had those same calm proclamations we used to get (well, with Damon they were snarky) from Damon, pre-D/E. IDK, Stefan is like this sage now -- his role is a little unclear. I can see why he's threatening to leave, as he's not really doing anything at the moment.

Another interesting two words we never heard this ep? Sire bond. Since it was supposedly the impetus for Damon wanting Elena to be human again, and it was never mentioned, I'm HOPING this means they're just dropping it (or it's irrelevant now Elena has turned off her humanity). Please, please, PLEASE!!!!!!
Arabian: Damon & Elena09arabian on April 7th, 2013 05:22 am (UTC)
Yeah, if Rebekah could somehow get her human wish (and live happily ever after--or at least a human life--with Matty, I'd be happy!).

RE: Klaus/Hayley -- Oh, I don't think feelings were involved. I just was disappointed that Joseph Morgan played the scene the same way as he does with Candice. So seeing him basically play Hayley with the trembling voice and limpid eyes made me question just how real and strong his feelings are for Caroline. Essentially, I blame the actor for not giving enough nuance there.

Their scenes are like a powder keg, and at this point, if we don't get one decent kiss before The Originals (not expecting a ship, just a kiss) I'll be really annoyed.

Agreed. :)

I was wondering if Stefan has taken on more of a truth-telling role now that Damon is involved with Elena, and possibly a bit biased?

I actually think it's something much more interesting going on (because, dude, Stefan is incapable of being unbiased, LOL). We're seeing Damon not trusting his instincts for the first time. His instinct was to not cut off the sire bond with Elena (which she didn't want him to do), but he's been working towards that because Stefan is telling him to do so. His instinct is to not force the cure on Elena, but Stefan is pushing for it. However because of the sire bond, it's completely screwing with his instincts because he's afraid of wanting and being left wanting.

They're not dropping the sire bond, I will be shocked if it's not revealed as fake. I just don't see how it is. Apparently we're supposed to find out for sure if Elena's feelings for Damon are real or not in the finale and since--to anyone who has paid attention prior to Elena's vamp-turn--it's perfectly clear that Elena has feelings for Damon, I'm pretty sure that means we will find out about the sire bond not being there. There are just way too many inconsistencies. Actually that's not it. There are simply NO consistencies with it. AT all. EVERY SINGLE THING we've been told about how it works contradicts itself. Every thing. I know Elena loves Damon. Period. I knew that before she turned and what happened in 4.06 (that HUGE character episode for Elena) just confirmed that. The sire bond was just introduced to muddy those waters, yes, but it's also been used to explore some of the D/E issues, as well as the issues that others have. And we're getting some fantastic character growth, longing from both sides, Elena going on and on about her love for Damon (which is awesome). In addition, we are seeing over and over again just how unselfish and real Damon's love for Elena is. And 9again) seeing Damon at odds with his instincts (because the sire bond threw him off) which is giving us some great Damon character stuff. It's also has helped Stefan begin to move on. Lots of reasons for the the sire bond and almost all of them character-related.

If it is real, then yeah, they completely messed it up since it makes no sense, but until we get the whole story, I refuse to get upset about it.

(no subject) - ghidorah15 on April 7th, 2013 03:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 7th, 2013 11:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ghidorah15 on April 8th, 2013 12:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 8th, 2013 12:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - ghidorah15 on April 8th, 2013 12:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 8th, 2013 01:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - eolivet on April 7th, 2013 08:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 7th, 2013 11:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
wiccabuffy: BSG - Sharon FTW!!!wiccabuffy on April 8th, 2013 09:22 pm (UTC)
LOVED this episode for the reasons you stated. Katherine is BACK, and that is always refreshing. Elijah is BACK, and his character of a "bad guy with honor" as they first introduced him has developed so nicely. Katherine/Elijah payoff was a nice twist that I loved (but am curious what will happen now because of "The Originals" spinoff).

I like no-humanity Elena -- most shows wouldn't let their heroine get this dark, or kill someone. Or they would have her be "happy" she is a vampire and live happily ever after with her vampire lover (see "Twilight"), but not TVD. And who knows what will happen with the cure? I have a theory but wont say...

I actually ship Klaroline, mainly because I hate Forwood (and also seem to have a thing for bad boy/good girl impossible ships). BUT, that said, it's also because we have not had many Steroline scenes lately -- which I hope will change. Especially with Stefan saying that he -- rightly so -- needs to get out of Elena's life and get a life of his own. Wouldn't it be nice to see him move on? And maybe move on with Caroline?

Loved the bitchiness, loved the brothers trying to outsmart the tag-team of Rebekah/Katherine (awkward table - everyone there had slept with everyone else! But later on they even addressed it, how the brothers seem to keep repeating their own mistakes or loves, too... nice, show).
Arabian: Katherine05arabian on April 9th, 2013 05:45 am (UTC)
Katherine/Elijah payoff was a nice twist that I loved (but am curious what will happen now because of "The Originals" spinoff).

Unless Katherine is killed (I know, perish the thought!), I will dream until TO is over (as I'm assuming if it does well it will run after TVD is done) that Nina will come back there to give Elijah/Katherine a happily ever after!

I like no-humanity Elena -- most shows wouldn't let their heroine get this dark, or kill someone. Or they would have her be "happy" she is a vampire and live happily ever after with her vampire lover (see "Twilight"), but not TVD.

I don't like her, but I don't think I'm supposed to, but I like that they are going there.

I actually ship Klaroline, mainly because I hate Forwood

You know I am NOT a Caroline/Tyler fan, but I can't ship someone else just because I'm anti another couple. Plus, yeah, Stefan/Caroline FAN FOR LIFE! Candice and Joseph do have chemistry though for sure.

Stefan saying that he -- rightly so -- needs to get out of Elena's life and get a life of his own. Wouldn't it be nice to see him move on? And maybe move on with Caroline?

Hell, yeah!

Loved the bitchiness, loved the brothers trying to outsmart the tag-team of Rebekah/Katherine (awkward table - everyone there had slept with everyone else! But later on they even addressed it, how the brothers seem to keep repeating their own mistakes or loves, too... nice, show).

Yuppers all-around! :)
vanimy: D/Rvanimy on April 28th, 2013 06:44 pm (UTC)
So... as I wrote on your 4x17 review, I'm still not caught up on TVD yet but I ADORED 4x18. I squeed several times during this episode (I was rather surprised myself lol), so yeah, I hope the next two will be on the same level.

Maybe a break from TVD was just what I needed.

-Elijah's return was what made me squee like a crazy person, lol! Then when he was all like 'I missed you' and went on to kiss Elena!Katherine I was jumping up and down on the couch in total giddiness. I don't think I have to point out this hadn't happened to me in a looooong time.

Elijah and Elijah/Katherine gave me LIFE. I really thought the show had completely dropped the ball on that ship so I was shocked and so happy for the confirmation they always had a thing and the writers didn't forget about that!

Daniel Gillies looked damn fine indeed, I love how 'Original'-like he truly is. I think he's the only one who can really make you feel he's lived through hundred years. Love him so. I wish he'd join TVD instead of going to the Originals which I really don't want to watch because even if Klaus doesn't get on my nerves like he used to (thank you, break) I still can't picture myself watching a show devoted to him.

-I want to believe Katherine was sincere in that last scene with him. I'm holding onto that until proven wrong! I too loved the fact he kept calling her Katerina. My mind goes back to 2x19 and when he woke up from the dead and saw Elena and that was the first word that came to him. *sigh* My shipper heart.

-Elena and Elijah together is always so riveting to watch. I actually liked him seeing her this way now. Too bad Elena didn't really listen to him. But him calling out Katherine on killing Elena's last;member of her family was spot on.

-Mmh, interesting thought about how Elena was a little more alive when she was with Damon. I agree. Even if I liked that the writers went there and had her kill someone just to prove a point (also I think Damon stretching his neck to look at the dead body as if to check she was really dead was unintentionally hilarious) I hope the real Elena comes back soon. I really don't like this Elena, I no longer relate to her, I just plain dislike her. This is one of the things that turned me off TVD in the first place so...

- So Stefan totally thinks that he is the center of the universe, doesn't he?

Mwahaha, he's Stefan! Actually I really liked Stefan in this episode. I like the way he bantered with Damon like old times and how he tried to reach out to Elena the way she reached out to him when he had his own switch off. I think he kind of did what Damon did the previous episode when he had his own switch off. They were trying to make her see they knew what she was going through because they went though this themselves. I think what they forgot is the fact that through it all... they still had each other. They still had their brother. Elena doesn't and I think that's the difference.

- About Stefan/Elena, I agree wholeheartedly. His whole speech about how he just wanted Elena to be human again and stop making the same mistakes all over again (as if Elena was just like Katherine) and then ride off into the sunset was VERY telling. He's over her. I really liked the way he wanted to have a life of his own. Finally.

I too noted Damon didn't say the same thing, he just can't let her go (yay!).

- I just don't ship Klaus and Caroline at all. But at least they don't bore me. (Cough, cough *TylerCaroline* cough, cough)

LOL. As i said, maybe it's because I hadn't watched them in ages but I found myself really liking their dynamics in these episodes. I'm this close to shipping them again. Which would be just my luck because hehe, here goes the Originals.

- I too liked the Katherine-Elena-Rebekah convo. I also really liked how we were reminded of the Originals strength by having Rebekah tossing Katherine around.
Arabian: Elijah & Katherine03arabian on April 29th, 2013 03:59 am (UTC)
So... as I wrote on your 4x17 review, I'm still not caught up on TVD yet but I ADORED 4x18. I squeed several times during this episode (I was rather surprised myself lol), so yeah, I hope the next two will be on the same level.

You are not alone, LOL! I liked 4x19 and 4x17 better than this, but 4x20 the least of the four (but I really liked that one too).

Maybe a break from TVD was just what I needed.

Maybe, you were pretty down on the show.

-Elijah's return was what made me squee like a crazy person, lol! Then when he was all like 'I missed you' and went on to kiss Elena!Katherine I was jumping up and down on the couch in total giddiness. I don't think I have to point out this hadn't happened to me in a looooong time.

Awww! I didn't realize you shipped K/E too! SQUEE! Yes, I love them so much. As I said in response to 4x17, I had been negatively spoiled about the fact that it was Elena and Elijah kissing and the annoying squee from those fans and you know how I positively LOATHE the idea of E/E, so I was not happy about that at all. So I had to shake that off, you know?

Elijah and Elijah/Katherine gave me LIFE. I really thought the show had completely dropped the ball on that ship so I was shocked and so happy for the confirmation they always had a thing and the writers didn't forget about that!

SEE! *sigh* I just get frustrated when so many assume they drop things, I really think they just wait for when they can fit it into the narrative in a way that works best overall. They did the same thing with Stefan and Rebekah, and I thought that was so well-done. And I'm happy with what they've done with K/E, considering everything.

I wish he'd join TVD instead of going to the Originals

I'm actually glad he's not because I can love him unabashedly without having to worry about the icky E/E stuff-- I REALLY hate it.

which I really don't want to watch because even if Klaus doesn't get on my nerves like he used to (thank you, break) I still can't picture myself watching a show devoted to him.

I was surprised by how much I enjoyed (and rooted for) Klaus in 4x20. I guess because he's "our" villian. It will be interesting to see what you think.

-I want to believe Katherine was sincere in that last scene with him. I'm holding onto that until proven wrong! I too loved the fact he kept calling her Katerina.

I totally believe she was. And the ep's co-writer said she was, so there's that! The "Katerina" from him always gets me.

-Elena and Elijah together is always so riveting to watch.

Ever since shippers put this whole romantic notion on them, I'm grossed out whenever I have to watch E/E together. I can't help it. I just hate it so much. I did love how this episode pretty much completely obliterated the idea that Elijah had romantic feelings for Elena at all, but instead they all were for Katherine. (Not that the delusional didn't see it that way, you see, he KNEW it was Elena and took advantage to kiss her, pfft!)

-Mmh, interesting thought about how Elena was a little more alive when she was with Damon. I agree.

She totally, totally, TOTALLY is. I LOVE IT!

Even if I liked that the writers went there and had her kill someone just to prove a point (also I think Damon stretching his neck to look at the dead body as if to check she was really dead was unintentionally hilarious)

Hah! I missed that, I'll have to look for that.

Will put the rest in the next response....
(no subject) - vanimy on April 29th, 2013 10:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 30th, 2013 07:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
vanimy: Scarlettvanimy on April 28th, 2013 06:45 pm (UTC)
- "Complication here." HEE!

I cracked up too. *sigh* Elijah...

- I don't quite have the feels with Rebekah and Elijah.

Oh, really? too bad... I always felt their connection myself. I've loved them together forever. They were the only redeeming thing when I watched 3x22 for the first time and I really felt their love in this episode too.

- So lots of characters to love this episode (Elena, Damon, Katherine, Stefan, Rebekah, Caroline, Elijah, eh, OK, Klaus too). There was some fantastic interaction between Klaus and Caroline, Rebekah/Elena/Katherine, Damon/Stefan, and that final scene with Elena was definitely a whoah! Because they actually went there. And, of course, after nearly two seasons, I finally got me some Elijah/Katherine!! (YEAH, BABY!)

Perfect summary. I really loved all these character interactions in this episode!
Arabian: GWTWarabian on April 29th, 2013 04:00 am (UTC)
I hope the real Elena comes back soon. I really don't like this Elena,

She will by season's end, we know that for sure. I'm OK with not liking this Elena (although I admit she cracked me up a bit in 4x19) because I don't think we're supposed to like her.

Actually I really liked Stefan in this episode.

I love hearing you say that! :)

They were trying to make her see they knew what she was going through because they went though this themselves. I think what they forgot is the fact that through it all... they still had each other. They still had their brother. Elena doesn't and I think that's the difference.

That's a VERY good point!

ride off into the sunset was VERY telling. He's over her. I really liked the way he wanted to have a life of his own. Finally.

Yup, it won't happen overnight, but I think that was quite important.

LOL. As i said, maybe it's because I hadn't watched them in ages but I found myself really liking their dynamics in these episodes. I'm this close to shipping them again. Which would be just my luck because hehe, here goes the Originals.

Oh, I love their dynamic, I just don't ship them. :shrugs:

RE: Elijah/Rebekah

Oh, really? too bad... I always felt their connection myself. I've loved them together forever. They were the only redeeming thing when I watched 3x22 for the first time and I really felt their love in this episode too.

I don't know, I just don't think that DG and CH have the best chemistry. :shrugs: I hope it grows for me. I don't their bad, I just don't have, well, the feels for them.

I really loved all these character interactions in this episode!

I look forward to rewatching it. :)
(no subject) - vanimy on April 29th, 2013 10:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 30th, 2013 07:48 am (UTC) (Expand)