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15 February 2013 @ 03:21 am
4.14 - 'Down The Rabbit Hole' (The Vampire Diaries)  
The Vampire Diaries aired tonight! Yay! Thoughts -- prepare to be shocked, very short for me -- behind the cut.

- When Stefan was alone with Shane, it was a really striking moment for me because it showed absolutely who Stefan is. Elena, Caroline, even Tyler would have shown compassion. Stefan did not. He made a cruel comment (dangling hope before snatching it) and then walked away, leaving an injured man to possibly die. I'm not comparing Stefan to Damon and saying Damon is better, just that Damon is honest. Damon would have walked away from Shane too, but no one would question him doing that because he's honest about who and what he is. Stefan pretends to be something he's not, and until he stops doing that, he's always going to be messed-up, confused little puppy.

- I kept trying to process and rationalize that Jeremy isn't dead, but folks? I think Jeremy is dead. Dead dead. He had no vampire blood in his system, and as a hunter, the ring will no longer work for him as a supernatural creature. So, yup, they killed Jeremy. I'm still processing. I think that once it hits Elena -- which, based on the preview, she's obviously fighting that reality -- she will turn her humanity switch off.... which might lead to another big sign that the sire bond isn't real because I could see Damon trying to invoke the sire bond to make her turn the switch back on, or to not turn it off period, and yet she does so anyway.

- Damon was really positioned as Elena's great love for the first time fully in this episode. Sure we've seen Damon as selfless plenty of times, but this was the first time that other characters (including Stefan) not only saw that selflessness at play, but also acknowledged it. We also had Damon making it clear that despite us all knowing that he doesn't want Elena to take the cure, he knows it's what she wants and therefore he was determined that she get what she wants, putting her first as always.

- I found Elena's attitude towards Damon and his situation interesting. It read to me a combination of her still being annoyed with him for walking away, but also not terribly worried simply because she knows that Damon can take care of himself (and she also thinks he's totally bad-ass). It's like she knows they are facing some issues and she's got to figure out how to deal with it, but right now way too much other stuff is going on so she just can't deal right now. And she knows that Damon would get that.

- Damon didn't break the ropes from Vaughn earlier because he wanted to be led to where Jeremy, Bonnie and Shane were presumably. I had to think on that one, LOL!

- Aha! I sorta guessed it! Commenting to someone after "Catch Me If You Can," I said that "I was thinking that Elijah or Katherine or some other witch may be in play too" as to the other person potentially looking for the cure that Stefan and Rebekah wondered about in that episode. As to why she wants the cure, I doubt very highly she wants it for herself, but rather as a bargaining chip to make a deal with Klaus. She gives him the cure, they are even and he leaves her be.

- And because it must be said.... KATHERINE!!!!!!

- I actually felt something during that Tyler/Caroline scene, very nicely done, very nicely written and acted on both parts (and on a shallow note, I thought Trevino looked REALLY good in that scene too). butterfly commented that she found it interesting that Caroline used almost exactly the same phrases that Damon did to Charlotte to send Tyler away, and then it was emphasized wheN Tyler repeated it back. Sure it was a completely different vibe -- and I loved that about the scene, how even though they both said the words, they were brimming over with such beautiful love, really well done -- but it was still the same sentiment. And Jose Molina wrote this episode. And Jose Molina co-wrote "We'll Always Have Bourbon Street." I don't know that it was supposed to be a deliberate parallel, but rather just another clue that the sire bond isn't about control or taking away one's agency, but just rooted deeply in love. Maybe.

- As soon as Grams started talking, I knew it wasn't her. No way, that's not Grams. I'm glad that Jeremy (SOB!) was able to see through that quickly and get through to Bonnie. I loved all the sweet, little moments with Jeremy (SOB!) but they are horrifically bittersweet now, damnit! The look on Bonnie's face as she lay there, terribly injured, breathing shallowly, just staring at a lifeless (NOOOO!) Jeremy (SOB!)in shock gutted me.

- So from an outsider's perspective, Jeremy (SOB!) is Damon's "pal," Bonnie is Damon's "witch" and the whole gang are Damon's friends. Nice to know.

- Ignoring the fact that Damon does in fact have a small tattoo (courtesy of Ian Somerhalder's tattoo) on his inner forearm, I still got a kick out of Damon's "look at my skin, it's flawless." So rarely do you have characters (played by good-looking actors, and in Somerhalder's case, insanely, ridiculously, surreally good-looking) acknowledge how good looking they are. I love that Damon knows he's hot and the show has no problem with having him and other characters express that reality often. Because, really, he is ridiculously hot. (RIP, Jenna.)

- So, both Elena/Stefan scenes were pretty great from a Damon/Elena fangirl point of view, especially one who's long wanted to see Stefan and Elena as friends after the smoke clears. The fact that Elena is acting very much like with Stefan the way she does when with Matt was nice to see, and even moreso was her telling Stefan essentially that it didn't matter whether she became a human again or not, she and Stefan were not getting back together. And, of course, her blase reaction to the sire bond continues to amuse me. Stefan says you'll be sired to Damon forever, and she's all :shrug: No big, we'll deal.

- On that note, I really did like how Elena finally appeared to be ready to finally embrace who she is now. I think she would have been there after "We All Go A Little Mad Sometimes," but then the possibility of the cure popped up right away so hope sprang eternal. So it will be interesting to see how she handles it. Of course, this entails dealing with whatever happens when she turns her humanity switch off because you just so know we're going there. I hope very much so that it's Damon who winds up getting through to her to bring her back. I hope so.

- I also liked how once Elena realized that Klaus was a major issue again she stopped the pity party and got going. That's not something I can see anyone else of our gang do as easily aside from Damon. Those two, so made for each other. *sigh*

- So it appears as if every couple (except for Damon and Elena) pretty much hit a dead-end tonight...

  • Tyler/Caroline - For at least a good while, until they decide to bring him back, which hopefully won't be for a looooong time and will only happen if they don't spark something with Caroline and someone else Stefan!

  • Caroline/Klaus - Klaus has no clue what love is, he truly doesn't and Caroline could never be with someone like that. And for the first time, I actually bought that Caroline truly does love Tyler -- even if I still don't buy that she was ever in love with him, sorry -- and because of that, I can't see her with Klaus unless he winds up taking the cure somehow, but with the spin-off coming up, I just don't see that happening.

  • Bonnie/Jeremy (SOB!) - Because SOB! Jeremy!!! Processing, still processing.

  • Stefan/Elena - There was just no subtext there between them, and again, this is the first time where DAMON was positioned as the epic, forever love of Elena as opposed to Stefan.

  • Stefan/Rebekah - Still, the fact that he would give the cure to Elena (which I don't see as a romantic gesture, because every vampire we know -- except Rebekah and Katherine -- would give the cure to Elena because (a) she's the newest, (b) the issue with Jeremy (SOB!), the hunter, and (c) the supposed sire bond), I think was the final nail in whatever she has going with Stefan.

    We'll see, though, just because it appeared that way with any of them doesn't mean anything on this show. We'll see.

    - No Matt. :( Hopefully this means the end of no-Matt episodes for this season, though.

    - So Silas was playing Shane ALL ALONG. He was nothing but a puppet this whole time.

    - I think I like the new Hunter guy. I'm not sure yet though. We'll see.

    - Once again, Joseph Morgan did a great job with his reduced screen time. While I'm heartbroken that Claire Holt will be on The Originals instead of a regular on The Vampire Diaries, it does make me look even more forward to it because Morgan has just been stepping up his game beautifully, Daniel Gillies is fabulous and seeing more Claire on my screen every week in a probably leading role is fantastic.

    - Speaking of, so I'm guessing Klaus trying to make up with Rebekah, and impressing her with his help was laying the groundwork for Rebekah joining him in New Orleans.

    - I did like that we got the acknowledgement from Caroline that she wouldn't have taken the cure.

    I am tired and am still processing Jeremy (SOB!). I may rewatch the episode tomorrow night and do a more traditional type of post, but for now, here you go. I thought this was a really strong episode, but, yeah, still processing. On one hand, I obviously do NOT want Jeremy gone because (SOB!) Jeremy! But on the other hand, when they kill someone, they need to stay dead to get that full impact. I had been wondering how they were going to get around the vampire/hunter thing which is why I figured that Elena would wind up getting the cure somehow because I never really thought they'd kill Jeremy. But damn, ya'll, they killed Jeremy (SOB!).

    Still processing. So not there yet.
  •  
     
     
    Bogwitch: Meg and Mog - Mog [new]bogwitch on February 15th, 2013 10:11 am (UTC)
    Even though I was expecting it, poor Jeremy(SOB)! I wonder if his and Carol's deaths are all part of clearing the decks for college next year. Perhaps Liz should be worried.

    And forget Kol, Vaughn's accent is probably the worst attempt at any accent I have ever heard! It was so distracting, I didn't take in anything else from his scenes.

    Edited at 2013-02-15 12:46 pm (UTC)
    Arabian: Jeremy01arabian on February 16th, 2013 06:38 am (UTC)
    I wonder if his and Carol's deaths are all part of clearing the decks for college next year. Perhaps Liz should be worried.

    I don't think that Carol was part of it -- I think her death was part of the Tyler, decimation of Klaus/Caroline in preparation for the spin-off -- so I think Liz is safe. However, I did mention to a friend that since Jeremy was the only one who would still be in high school next season, uh huh, yeah, I did think that.

    RE: Vaughn... hmm, I actually thought his accent was fine.

    Bogwitchbogwitch on February 16th, 2013 09:08 am (UTC)
    Take it from me, that's not a good accent at all. I work for a Scottish company full of Scots and not one of them sound like that mangled mess. The fact that one people thought it was supposed to be Irish says it all.

    If that was why they killed off Carol, I daresay it's convenient. The Gilbert house being for sale is another clue.


    Arabian: Alaric01arabian on February 16th, 2013 09:39 am (UTC)
    But it is supposed to be Irish. That's what I thought. Galen is a an Irish name. Where did you get that he's supposed to be Scottish? He didn't sound Scottish at all to me, he sounded Irish, and with the first name Galen (an Irish name), I thought it was pretty cool that he was Irish. I'm pretty durn good at accents.

    I know that Galen can be used as a Scottish name, but traditionally it's Irish. Is it official somewhere that he's supposed to Scottish? If he is, then I agree it was a terrible Scottish accent, but it was a good Irish accent. The only place I saw him listed as Scottish was the TVD Wikia page and their source was Michael Ausiello's TVLine spoilers which mentions that they are looking for an Australian, Irish or Scottish actor. I have read the original sides, nothing in there indicates that he is Scottish. Again, if there's something official from the actor or Julie, then yeah, lousy Scottish accent, but unless there's something official, he's Irish to me, in name and accent.

    The Gilbert House is for sale? How did I miss that in the episode?

    Edited at 2013-02-16 09:46 am (UTC)
    Bogwitch: Meg and Mog - Mog [new]bogwitch on February 16th, 2013 09:55 am (UTC)
    Nothing official that I know of, though consenus from what I've seen leans towards people thinking it's Scottish (though there is confusion). It sounds a lot more Scottish than Irish to me, though just listening to it again with Irish in mind, it seems to waver between the two (and it's definitely not Northern Irish). Either way, whatever it is meant to be it's absolutely dreadful.

    The actual real house is for sale. Not the one in the show.
    http://www.teen.com/2012/05/08/news/entertainment-news/elenas-mystic-falls-home-vampire/

    Edited at 2013-02-16 09:57 am (UTC)
    Arabian: ATttD - Sorryarabian on February 16th, 2013 10:03 am (UTC)
    I still don't think it's dreadful. It's not great, but it's a passable Irish accent to me, and again, I'm pretty good with accents. It doesn't sound Scottish to me at all. Eh, I can listen again when I rewatch, but I didn't have a problem with it. And unlike Nathanial Buzolic, this guy can at least act without every line sounding like "I am reading this from a script." Even the brief bit of Kol in the previouslies was killing me.

    Ah, I guess Elena will be living in the Salvatore boarding house from now on then.
    Bogwitch: Meg and Mog - Mog [new]bogwitch on February 16th, 2013 10:58 am (UTC)
    He says 'It was nae me' which is Scottish (especially Glasgow) not Irish and I've been to Ireland a couple of times and I've never heard an accent like that. Plus Damon calls him Shrek, which I suppose is pretty official.

    I suppose we will have to agree to differ. I do agree he's a better actor though than NB (if not as good looking)..

    Edited at 2013-02-16 11:02 am (UTC)
    Arabian: Alaric02arabian on February 16th, 2013 12:48 pm (UTC)
    OK, I concede, I couldn't figure out why Damon called him "Shrek" because, nope, he didn't sound Scottish at all, but yeah, clearly he's supposed to be. So, yuppers. crappy accent.

    Eh, I never actually thought NB was all that good-looking (and I've seen him in person). So I'm just pretty much not a fan of anything NB-related, alas, as an actor. Seems like a decent fellow, but I'm quite glad I will very rarely ever have to deal with him on TVD or TO (except for possible flashbacks). Guy just sucks so badly.
    Cassandra Elise: doctor/rose brokencassandra_elise on February 15th, 2013 04:06 pm (UTC)
    Jeremy was my favorite character after Damon and Elena, so I'm really pissed off right now. I feel like there were a hundred different ways they could've gone with that scenario and they picked the most "shocking." Just...so not happy. I need time to stew.
    Arabian: Dr Who (10)arabian on February 16th, 2013 06:42 am (UTC)
    Hmm, I didn't think it was a shocking decision, I actually do think it makes sense considering all that has happened and it really opens the door to a lot of great character stuff for Elena and Bonnie. Mind you, I'm not happy about losing Jeremy (SOB!), but I do think story-wise, it's a good move.
    Frust-sheep: sheep: blacktearsfrust_sheep on February 15th, 2013 05:02 pm (UTC)
    (SOB!)Jeremy(SOB!)
    Arabian: ATttD - Sorryarabian on February 16th, 2013 06:44 am (UTC)
    SOB!!!!
    hotarujazz: hands and dance 4x07hotarujazz on February 15th, 2013 06:48 pm (UTC)
    This show turned me into full on masochist!!! I swear I didn't enjoy pain before watching TVD!! I loved and hated this episode. I loved it because it was great and I hated it because I'm in so much pain for Elena, Bonnie and Damon. I have a feeling that Damon will have a really bad reaction to Jeremy's death, not bad like he will go off the rails and do something stupid but bad as in really emotional(he will be in so much pain-bad).

    Edited at 2013-02-15 07:02 pm (UTC)
    Arabian: Damon & Elena02arabian on February 16th, 2013 06:45 am (UTC)
    I loved it because it was great and I hated it because I'm in so much pain for Elena, Bonnie and Damon.

    Agreed so hard.

    Re: Damon -- I don't know, I do hope we'll get some indication from him that he cares, but I don't see how he'll go off the rails that far. I could see only Stefan or Elena driving Damon over the edge.
    Aly J.simply_aly on February 15th, 2013 09:18 pm (UTC)
    I almost hope Jeremy's death is going to push Bonnie into full on dark witch mode. But really, so, so sad. (And I would laugh so hard if Matt was the next hunter, but alas.)

    I have been thinking about why Katherine wanted the cure and I do think it isn't to cure herself. (Mind you, this long and convoluted theory is based solely on what has already aired and a tiny piece of the info we've been given on the spinoff--basically just the synopsis.)

    I think Katherine wants the cure so she can give it to Klaus--not as part of a bargain, but so that he is cured...like Tyler wanted to do. If what Tyler said last episode is correct, his line won't be cured or anything, just him, which means he will be simply a werewolf, therefore he will grow old and die and Kat will be free.

    In a way, this makes sense in relation to the spinoff because there was a line detailing Elijah's role in the spinoff that said something to the effect that he is around to keep Klaus in line so that people don't kill Klaus. As it stands, there are so very few ways to kill him and if there was one that could be easily done, it would have been done long ago by the MF gang, right?

    I really don't want this to be the case, but what has me thinking it is was Tyler's speech about the sire line. Why would they put that in there if Klaus wasn't going to be the one to get the cure?
    Arabian: Katherine05arabian on February 16th, 2013 06:48 am (UTC)
    That's why as sad as I am about losing Jeremy (SOB!), I do think it opens the door to some great character stuff for both Bonnie and Elena. I'm quite curious to see where this is going to lead for those two characters.

    I hadn't put that together about the spin-off spoiler, so I see your point, but I can't imagine Katherine being willing to risk not succeeding in killing him. Maybe she does plan to deal with him, he gets is and somehow winds up taking it.
    prettygirl5130: pic#119743568prettygirl5130 on February 15th, 2013 09:45 pm (UTC)
    You know the spoilers pretty much all but said that Jeremy was going to die but I was still jumping from my couch when it actually happened. Jeremy dying always gives me that reaction.

    This entire episode was probably one of the saddest there has been in a long while, and that includes Alaric's death last season. Judging from the promo, next week will be even more painful.

    Well, Damon has done it. He has realized that he will always love ELena but all of this running around to be with her and hoping against hope the universe will finally make it happen isn't good at this point in time. It's better to just let her have her happiness and not be involved. I don't know if he was giving up, but he was certaintly giving in in my opinion. He just let Stefan go down that well and sat there on a cave floor looking pretty much devestated, tired, bruised, and broken. Ironically this realization from Damon comes right after Elena has professed to Stefan that her being human doesn't necessarily mean she's going to be the same girl he fell in love with...she's changed and the chances of her and Stefan getting back together after all of this is slim to none.

    As for Elena...she had a pretty significant epiphany this episode and in true TVD fashion that was all taken away the moment Jeremy hit the ground eyes wide with death. Nothing will matter to Elena now. No boy will be able to help her. She will have no hope, not in the cure, not in herself, not in her life. Everything has been shattered. I don't think Damon or Stefan will be able to make her feel any better. She will be completely broken for a pretty good amount of time. I'm going to guess that the brothers will have to depend and support each other through all of this because their dependence on the love of Elena will be eliminated.

    The sire bond won't even matter now. It's all just floated away and left us with a pretty grim reality if I do say so myself.

    I don't really think Elena or any vampire can truly turn off their emotions. I think they can deflect and lose their appreciation for human life in order to feed, but I don't think there is actually a switch that makes it all go away...no matter how much Elena is gonna wish there was. Emotions will always creep in and we've seen that with the most hardened vampires on this show. No one is immune to emotions...no one. I think Elena will want revenge and will channel her pain in the anger that she's feeling. The only person who can bring her bakc is probably herself at this point. You cannot live for anyone else...you live for yourself. Elena lived for Jeremy. Stefan's humanity was in with Elena. Damon lived for the love of Elena. All of these characters are realizing that it's all up to you at the end of the day.

    I saw the Tyler/Caroline goodbye scene as foreshadowing of Damon letting Elena go with the bond. After all of this pain Damon will see Elena go through I think, if he dies or sacrifices himself to bring back Jeremy he will tell Elena to let him go and live a happy life so she doesn't have to go through this pain again. I think letting the ones you truly love go is part of the theme this season.
    Arabian: Elena08arabian on February 16th, 2013 06:57 am (UTC)
    See, and this is why I'm trying to avoid spoilers. I had NO clue that Jeremy would be dying. I read some spec (which is yet another reason why I've decided to stay clear of tumblr) but nothing that made it clear it would happen.

    Hmm, I didn't see Damon's reaction in the way you did. I just saw more of the same with Damon, him choosing to put her first and letting go for her to do what he believes that she wants. He learned that lesson in the hard way after his forced his blood on her in 2.20 and it was re-inforced after what happened in 3.22/4.01. Damon had made the decision to give Elena what he believed she wanted when he told her that Stefan was the one who wanted a human life, and walked away. And, again, for me, it was just more of what we've seen from him many times before with him. What was different about this time is just that others finally were witness to that selflessness.

    I do think that Elena's going to go dark, but I also think very much that her loved ones (mostly Damon) will bring her back, because for me the theme of this show is about how those we love bring us back. It's not about living for someone else, it's about those you love helping to show you that you have something to live for.

    The sire bond won't even matter now.

    For Damon, yeah, but I honestly don't see how it's ever mattered to Elena. She only is concerned with it because Damon is so concerned with it, but she never bought it having any significance, what she felt was so real, and that won't change.

    if he dies or sacrifices himself to bring back Jeremy he will tell Elena to let him go and live a happy life so she doesn't have to go through this pain again.

    But Damon's already done that, and made it clear that he will do that for Elena, so I don't see that as something new.

    ETA: I forgot this -- I do think there is a humanity switch simply because we've seen it on display too many times with too many different vampires.

    Edited at 2013-02-16 07:03 am (UTC)
    prettygirl5130: pic#119743568prettygirl5130 on February 16th, 2013 09:41 pm (UTC)
    I do think Damon was being selfless in his efforts to make sure Elena got what she wanted in the cure and (in Damon's mind at least) in Stefan, but I also think that in the long run what Damon said in 4.13 was right. How are they ever going to work if Elena hates being a vampire and is turned human, even if she decides to stick with Damon? On the flip side, how is Elena and Damon ever going to work if she stays a vampire and he knows she doesn't want to be one and is sired to him which means he will never believe that her feelings are completely real and as intense as she says they are? It's kind of a no-win situation and I think that thought was going through Damon's mind. What else can he do? He's never going to truly get her even if her feelings are real.

    So I saw Damon's choice of staying in that cave and not going down the well as him saying, "I give in. I know there isn't much hope for her and I and i've gone as far as I could. She'll get the cure, she'll get Stefan who has the same outlook and future as she wants, and i'm out."

    Obviously, he's not going to completely erase Elena from his life because as Rebekah pointed out to him, he will always love her tremendously, but I think his pursuit of her and his fight to stay alive for Elena and never leave her is waning as more and more time goes on. He's just defeated and can't think of any way that this conflict will be resolved in any good way for him romantically. It's not a bad thing but it's very tragic.

    Now, with Jeremy's death Elena is obviously going to be pretty occupied emotionally to worry about expressing and showing her love to Damon because she has made the decision that she doesn't really want the cure and she needs to use it to save the people she loves. So, everything will be on hold for the foreseeable future regarding Delena and it's possible that Damon may sink lower and lower into his tragic thought process of giving in regarding Elena while Elena is simply too upset to confront the issues her and Damon have.

    It's funny though because both boys have come to this conclusion this season that it's not all about Elena for them and maybe it shouldn't be. Maybe they should fight for themselves and not for their romantic relationship with Elena all of the time. It just makes me wonder, where does this leave the triangle? If Damon is giving in and in an interview Ian actually said that yes Damon is letting Elena go and if Stefan has let Elena go, how can the triangle even remotely exist?
    Arabian: Damon05arabian on February 16th, 2013 09:59 pm (UTC)
    Yeah, I'm not reading interviews anymore either because they aren't indicative of what's gonna happen either and they tend to set me up to hope for stuff or expect the worse. For instance, last season, Ian said that Damon was walking away from Elena and letting her go, and yeah, that didn't happen. On the flip side, Ian said that after the sirebond reveal, we would see Damon and Elena in a more romantic stage of their relationship without sex, that he would be courting Elena. Sadly, that didn't happen either. Based on history and all that has happened, Damon doesn't walk away or let Elena go. I'm inclined to think that he was probably referencing the scene in 4.13/4.14 when he said that, or was flat-out lying again like he was when he said (ON THE SET OF 4.07!) that the Elena-vampire sex was not with Damon and that she was all about Stefan.

    I do think that Damon believes that she'll turn to Stefan, but I don't think she will and that will be a turning point for him... but it won't matter then and there because of the Jeremy situation. I can't see Damon walking away from Elena at all right now because of what happened to Jeremy. Leaving her at her lowest point? I can't see that.

    Edited at 2013-02-16 10:00 pm (UTC)
    prettygirl5130: pic#119743568prettygirl5130 on February 16th, 2013 10:11 pm (UTC)
    Oh no Damon won't ever leave Elena now after Jeremy's death. That won't happen. I think at that particular time Damon was letting Elena go. Now that Jeremy is dead and the circumstances are different I don't know what will happen. It's typical of this show to have a character make a decision that maybe a lot of fans won't like and then have some circumstance that completely renders that decision useless. Elena chooses Stefan but then turns into a vampire and everything changes. Damon chooses to let Elena go and then Jeremy dies.

    Ha! I always laugh when I read about Ian's lying in interview. I will never get over the fact that he was talking about ELena and Stefan being together while shooting the episode where Damon and Elena sleep together. That will never get old! It still cracks me up every time. But, yeah he does say the opposite of what actually happens or he overanalyzes one scene in an episode without taking into account what's happening after said scene. So he might have just been talking about that 4.13 and 4.14 but not about what happens once JEremy dies. It may put everything in perspective for Elena and Damon regarding happiness and that life is short. He may decide to keep going with Elena because he loves her and that's what counts...death of a loved one tends to change people's outlook on a lot of things.
    Arabian: Damon & Elena27arabian on February 16th, 2013 10:22 pm (UTC)
    Exactly. I love Ian dearly, but he so does not look at big picture stuff when talking about the show. Like almost every actor, he looks at the motivations solely from his character's point of view, and he's very good about not spoiling so tends to stick with just what is happening. (I now think the whole courting/no sex comment was ONLY about the first damn scene of 4.09, LOL! when Damon said he was being a gentleman).

    I think at that particular time Damon was letting Elena go.

    Because he genuinely believed that if she got the cure, she would choose Stefan... which we know wouldn't have happened, so it wouldn't have lasted even without Jeremy's death because Elena would have still wanted Damon. So he let her go believing that but once Elena came back presumably human and still wanted Damon, there would go the letting go. :)
    (Anonymous) on February 17th, 2013 05:19 am (UTC)
    Yeah I see what you're saying. I just wish that he had at least tried to go down that well and help her out....it was a very un-Damon-like thing to do in my opinion. I get why he decided to just send Stefan down there but I think this selfless act would have been more stunning if Damon had actually given Elena the cure, or at least tried to hand Elena the cure knowing that he was probably going to lost her. BUt it is what it is.

    Anyway, I just had one more comment regarding the affects of Jeremy's death...I think that he should stay dead and I want to see Elena evolve and change from this horrible tragedy. But, I can also understand the writers choosing to find some way to bring Jeremy back because he is Elena's only family member and it is cruel to do that to your main character. The affects of this death better be worth it otherwise it will seem like a shock value death and not one that's meaningful and necessary for the story.

    I can't believe Jeremy died in a cave and on a dirt floor and I also can't believe that Bonnie (near death herself) had to watch it but wasn't able to do anything. It's such a tragic thing and the next episode is probably going to be the saddest episode of TVD ever.
    Arabian: Dr Who (10)arabian on February 24th, 2013 04:11 am (UTC)
    I just wish that he had at least tried to go down that well and help her out....it was a very un-Damon-like thing to do in my opinion

    If he hadn't been so wrecked, I'd agree with you, but again, he was worn out just from crawling a few feet and pulling stakes out of Rebekah. The guy was toast.

    The affects of this death better be worth it otherwise it will seem like a shock value death and not one that's meaningful and necessary for the story.

    Obviously we are already seeing that such is the case. Honestly, I never had any doubts that it would be because the show has never used death as shock value for major characters from where I'm sitting and I don't see why that would change now. (Garsh, I love this show!)

    the next episode is probably going to be the saddest episode of TVD ever

    It so was!!! SOBS
    jamdourado: pic#119645665jamdourado on February 16th, 2013 12:45 am (UTC)
    Jeremy is dead (SOB), i'm still grieving so i can't make any rational comment right now.

    it was a good episode though.
    Arabian: Damon & Elena20arabian on February 16th, 2013 06:58 am (UTC)
    I feel you. Still processing two days later.
    (Anonymous) on February 16th, 2013 07:17 am (UTC)
    It was kind of stupid and awkward that we didn't know what happened with Vaughn and WHY Katherine didn't choose him for the sacrifice. It was bad writing? I just don't know. Vaughn ran/ It was there for the whole thing? Why didn't he attack Katherine? We know his purpose, to shove the cure on Silas's neck. What was that???? Everybody is so caught in Jeremy's death, that nobody asks the obvious question: where was Vaughn in the end of the episode?
    Arabian: Alaric02arabian on February 16th, 2013 08:02 am (UTC)
    i don't agree. Vaughn was a threat and it would take time more time to deal with him than a willing Jeremy as far as Katherine knew. She figured it would be easier to keep up the charade as Elena to get Jeremy to do what was necessary to get the cure, so as "Elena" she defended Jeremy from this guy. She only forced Jeremy when he resisted helping her right away.

    Vaughn didn't run, Katherine knocked him out. She was about to bite him, when Jeremy reminded her of the Hunter's curse, so she threw him against a hard surface and knocked him out. he was laying on the ground, unconscious, through the rest of the scene. Because of what happened it just wasn't necessary to flash to a shot of him since it just had happened moments before.
    (Anonymous) on February 16th, 2013 08:53 am (UTC)
    In this case, it was excessively cruel of Katherine to kill Elena's last relative, knowing, in fact that Elena's her grand-grand-grand daughter (I guess). I don't know how to see Katherine after this episode. Is she so heartless, given the fact that she knew Elena, they have (sort of) a history together? I know the means excuse the purpose, but wasn't she suppose to analyse the situation and find the better out of it? Btw, I like your optimism regarding TVD. It's like a breath of fresh air, in an ocean of pessimism and heartbreak.
    Arabian: Katherine02arabian on February 16th, 2013 09:58 am (UTC)
    Katherine didn't kill him, she was letting him be drunk from. She took off before Silas killed Jeremy. Yes, she opened the door to him being killed, but she knew that Elena and likely Stefan and Damon were coming soon thus her speeding off, so she wasn't necessarily resigning him to his death. And it's not like she'd even care. Katherine cares about exactly three people -- Katherine, Stefan and Damon. (I'd love to add Elijah to the list, but there is no present-day canon to back that up sadly.) That is it. And she cares about Katherine way, way, way, way more than she does the other two, so she wouldn't even really think of Jeremy's life as mattering. She just doesn't care. Katherine has ALWAYS been this heartless (except for affection for her family centuries ago). She ONLY cares about the Salvatore boys and even then she still would sacrifice them in, oh, two heartbeats to save herself. She's just so cool and badass that people tend to gloss over how horrible she is.

    She did analyze the situation. She knew that Elena and the boys would likely be coming soon, so she created a distraction that also got her a cure at the same time so she would have time to get outta dodge.

    I like your optimism regarding TVD. It's like a breath of fresh air, in an ocean of pessimism and heartbreak.

    Thank you. I genuinely do NOT understand the bitching and nitpicking about TVD -- 4 seasons in and this show is still so amazing. I swear people just want to hate because it's cool. *sigh* I wouldn't feel so strongly about that if so many gripes were based on smoke and mirrors, complaints that actually don't fit canon but rather some canon that gripers have created in their heads. * double sigh*

    Edited at 2013-02-16 10:50 am (UTC)
    alkja: pic#93120746alkja on February 16th, 2013 08:24 pm (UTC)
    When stefan was alone with Shane, it was a really striking moment for me because it showed absolutely who Stefan is.

    I’m 100% certain that if anyone asked Stefan a “What If…” question, he would absolutely tell them that of course the only proper course is showing mercy and be the better person. And he would mean it. Stefan is almost glorious in is hypocrisy.

    I think Jeremy is dead. Dead dead.

    I hope not but I fear so… On the other hand they have told usa gain and again that Silas can raise the dead (but HOW? If he was a witch and became a vampire, shouldn’t he have lost his powers like Abby did?), so I can equally imagine a grief-stricken Elena making some deal with this demon…

    Sure we've seen Damon as selfless plenty of times, but this was the first time that other characters (including Stefan) not only saw that selflessness at play, but also acknowledged it.

    About damn time too! I kinda loved his conversation with Rebekah, they really have the Fools For Love common ground that can lend itself to a nice mutual understanding. And of course what Elena wants Elena gets if Damon has anything to say about it, Damon’s own feelings about it be damned. No, really: tell me again Delena isn’t endgame, I dare you.

    It's like she knows they are facing some issues and she's got to figure out how to deal with it, but right now way too much other stuff is going on so she just can't deal right now. And she knows that Damon would get that.

    Elena and Damon Get Shit Done, it’s their main thing along with Surviving. If there’s anyone who would get shelving all issues until the situation was dealt with it’s Damon. Hell, he’d expect her to stow any and all shit away and focus on the matter at hand.

    As to why she wants the cure, I doubt very highly she wants it for herself, but rather as a bargaining chip to make a deal with Klaus. She gives him the cure, they are even and he leaves her be.

    I respectfully disagree. Katherine is anything but an idiot and she didn’t survive this long hoping for the better, which is what would happen making any deal with Klaus. He’s an untrustworthy bastard who changes his mind as frequently as his socks and for much more spurious reasons.
    Who’s to say he wouldn’t promise her freedom, grab the Cure and then decide that, as long as he gets rid of it, he might as well remake this troublesome lady into a compellable human full of Doppelgangery goodness and viable eggs and uterus to make some more hybrids and keep the Petrova line going? He says that he’s done with hybrids, but seriously: he’s wanted those for centuries, he’s just as likely to say “Well, might as well try. Maybe the next batch will be better, or maybe the one after that… Let’s just keep my options open.”
    Katherine is not going to get anywhere near Klaus except to end him, methinks.

    interesting that Caroline used almost exactly the same phrases that Damon did to Charlotte to send Tyler away, and then it was emphasized wheN Tyler repeated it back.

    OMG, this! So much this! Honestly, it was such a blow-by-blow replaying it just cannot be a coincidence! The writers are saying “Stop with the pearlclutching, there is no practical difference between being Sirebonded and being just plain in love! We all become a little bit slave to our love.”

    I really did like how Elena finally appeared to be ready to finally embrace who she is now.

    I loved that conversation not just because, with the simple friendliness and the shrugging off the Sirebond, I could hear We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together strumming in the background, but especially because Elena basically called bullshit on Stefan’s assertion last week, that if he could turn back into a human that would wash away all the horrors of Ripperdom (which… just no, gross!)
    Vampire-since-a-few-weeks Elena stated that humanity wouldn’t magically undo anything, all that happened still would have happened and no clock was getting turned back. Elena post-vampiredom would still not be Elena Just As She Was Before, let’s all stop kidding ourselves.
    Said the 18 y.o. to the 150 y.o. Sigh… Yes, Elena is so the stupid, immature one.
    Arabian: Elena05arabian on February 16th, 2013 10:18 pm (UTC)
    On the other hand they have told usa gain and again that Silas can raise the dead

    I think this episode disproved that. Shane told us that Silas could raise the dead because "Caitlin" told him that and the rumors, but we know because of not!Grams that it wasn't the dead that could be raised, but Silas simply sending visions of the dead to people visiting in order to get blood to awaken.

    Katherine is anything but an idiot and she didn’t survive this long hoping for the better, which is what would happen making any deal with Klaus. He’s an untrustworthy bastard who changes his mind as frequently as his socks and for much more spurious reasons.

    But Klaus is old-school and has made it clear numerous times that he keeps his word, which is why I can see Katherine planning that. On the other hand, yeah, she may intend to use it to force a cure on him somehow. :shrugs: We'll see.

    it was such a blow-by-blow replaying it just cannot be a coincidence!

    And Jose Molina wrote this episode, and co-wrote WAHBS.

    Elena basically called bullshit on Stefan’s assertion last week [...] Elena stated that humanity wouldn’t magically undo anything, all that happened still would have happened and no clock was getting turned back. Elena post-vampiredom would still not be Elena Just As She Was Before

    This goes back to how WAGALMS was the turning point for Elena and her feelings for Damon, and breaking up with Stefan. It wasn't some fake-ass sirebond which would have made the change when she became a vampire, it was what happened on that bridge.
    (Anonymous) on February 16th, 2013 10:38 pm (UTC)
    I am really curious what will happen with the sire bond, should Elena really turn off her humanity after this. Because technically Damon could just command her to turn it back on and not to go on a killing spree or whatever else she might decide to do. But that would be too easy, so my guesses are that either the sire bond will finally be revealed as fake, or turning off her humanity will break it. Seeing as the sire bond happened because of Elena's love for Damon, I wonder if it can still be in place after all her emotions are gone.
    Arabian: Damon & Elena26arabian on February 16th, 2013 10:55 pm (UTC)
    One has nothing to do with the other, otherwise Katherine wouldn't love Stefan or Damon. She did so even with her switch off. Damon wouldn't have loved Katherine still even with his switch off. Turning one's humanity off doesn't make them stop loving or hating, it just makes them stop caring about collateral damage or feeling guilt.

    the sire bond will finally be revealed as fake

    So that's kinda the only option I see at this point, but we'll see what the show does.
    woobloo: damon/elenawoobloo on February 17th, 2013 12:55 am (UTC)
    Wow. Just, wow. This show is incredible.

    Is it bad that I kind of sort of hope Jer is dead-dead? Not because I don't love Jeremy (*SOB*) but because I think the impact's lessened character-wise if he isn't dead. There was just something... bleak.... and powerful about that moment that would be lessened, somehow, if he is brought back.

    That said- my whole absolute faith in the writers remains. I am really happy about where they're taking this whole cure thing.

    More importantly, I feel like the characters- once this possibility of a cure came up- have started seeing vampirism as a black-and-white thing, and 'being human' as an ultimate ideal to escape their problems. Stefan with his Ripper thing- Elena with the Damon vs. Stefan of it all- the whole hunter thing- etc. etc. It was turning into an escape, a delusion. I think that was a big part of Damon's "I don't want to be human" moment last week, which was so ridiculously extreme as to position itself as at least partially false (I just remembered two moments there- the obvious one, that heartbreaking scene in the road, but also in the season premiere, where Damon told Elena that he "gets it" and that he wanted her to be human, and it was clear that he wanted that almost more than anything for her). I think Damon at least subconsciously felt how much everyone was using the cure as the easy way out, and it was partially a visceral reaction to that (as well as the Stefan of it all.)

    Broader point: I know how much each and every character wants to be human- but this is so much more interesting in terms of character development. I've said before- I feel like being a vampire is a character thing, as well as a plot one, and if someone were to magically make that go away, it would be a bit of a cop-out if it were one of the Big Three (Stelenamon.... hee hee, no idea where that came from). There's so much that the three of them being vampires brings in terms of development, and I don't want that to change. (Although, yet again, absolute faith in the writers and all. You do what you have to, guys.)

    Which brings me to.... Elena's declaration about being a vampire. I found that so awesome for so many many reasons. For one thing, she's so Elena in this moment- very self-sacrificing and kind of a badass. For another thing, it didn't have much regret in it, just acceptance- it didn't feel like a loose end of regret waiting to be tied up. And lastly, it was realistic in a very good way. Because maybe she was nostalgic for her human life, but it was just that- nostalgia. I've gotten trapped in nostalgia before, and believe me, it doesn't make life worth living.

    And I loved the Stefan/Elena scenes, because there was NO CHEMISTRY there at all. (Although... was there ever? lol.) There wasn't any Stefan angst or Elena guilt, and it was just cool all around.

    RE: Rebekah on The Originals- on the one hand, the spin off sounds fantastic. (Elijah? Rebekah? Sibling hijinx?) On the other hand, both of my loveliest Rebekah-ships are now dead. Wah. I was just beginning to OTP-fangirl over Stefan/Rebekah too. (Sorry- I know how you love Stefan/Caroline, and I do too- but I think Stefan/Rebekah had more spark.)

    I liked Vaughn okay. I mean, he wasn't great or anything, but I didn't hate him. And he had some chemistry (not sexual, lol) with Damon, although the boy has chemistry with everybody.

    This is kind of incoherent- sorry. I work basically straight Thursday morning through Friday night. Which sucks HORRIBLY because the networks put ALL GOOD SHOWS on Thursday night. (Plus the fact that I get no sleep, ha.) I get very pouty about it, lol. I WANT TO WATCH TVD LIVE, WORLD. WHY CAN YOU NOT GIVE ME THAT?

    /end rant

    Sorry. Anyway, great episode, and I loved your thoughts on it.

    ETA: I can't believe I forgot: KATHERINE!!! That's really all you need to say. :D

    Edited at 2013-02-17 12:56 am (UTC)
    Arabian: Damon & Elena20arabian on February 17th, 2013 05:10 am (UTC)
    Wow. Just, wow. This show is incredible.

    I know. So underrated.

    Is it bad that I kind of sort of hope Jer is dead-dead?

    Nope, I feel the same way. However, I was thinking tonight... I wonder if Elena is going to attempt to track down Katherine to get the cure to bring Jeremy back? If something they hold off doing until the end of the season and we get some great character stuff out of for Elena, Bonnie, possibly Damon and Matt, then I could see that being worth it. Or like you said --

    That said- my whole absolute faith in the writers remains.

    Yup.

    More importantly, I feel like the characters- once this possibility of a cure came up- have started seeing vampirism as a black-and-white thing, and 'being human' as an ultimate ideal to escape their problems.

    I agree with this, but I don't so much with Elena and the Damon vs. Stefan of it all, because she didn't see the two that way. The others did, in relation to her, but not Elena. She even made it clear to Stefan that human or not, they couldn't go back.

    I think Damon at least subconsciously felt how much everyone was using the cure as the easy way out

    Yes, but I think he was wrong about Elena. He just assumed that Elena was saying that, even when she flat-out told him that she was not, but he just can't see that she could possibly love him and want to go the long haul with him as a human. So that's on his issues there that he blanketed Elena with which isn't true of her.

    I know how much each and every character wants to be human- but this is so much more interesting in terms of character development.

    Well, Caroline doesn't! But other than that, I do agree -- that it opens the door to actually deal with things instead of the blanket vampire=bad, human=good.

    There's so much that the three of them being vampires brings in terms of development, and I don't want that to change. (Although, yet again, absolute faith in the writers and all. You do what you have to, guys.)

    Again, I totally agree.

    Which brings me to.... Elena's declaration about being a vampire.

    I think this does go back to WAGALMS. She was at that point then, but then the cure was dangled before her and I almost wonder if Damon not ready to go that road played a small part in her not being so gung-ho? I dunno, I just feel like since she'd already arrived at that place (in WAGALMS), it was easier to recapture that acceptance.

    And I loved the Stefan/Elena scenes, because there was NO CHEMISTRY there at all. (Although... was there ever? lol.) There wasn't any Stefan angst or Elena guilt, and it was just cool all around.

    Yup.

    both of my loveliest Rebekah-ships are now dead. Wah. I was just beginning to OTP-fangirl over Stefan/Rebekah too. (Sorry- I know how you love Stefan/Caroline, and I do too- but I think Stefan/Rebekah had more spark.)

    I think S/R have more spark right now too but that's because they've actually gone THERE with them. Stefan and Caroline are still just potential at this point. So, yeah, I'm not happy about losing out on Stefan/Rebekah and Matt/Rebekah. My only hope at this point is maybe Matt could wind up over on TO at some point if TVD ends (and without Nina and Ian -- who I'm 99.9% are leaving when they can, thus six seasons of the show, dunzo -- I don't see how it carries on) and TO is still going, hopefully strong.

    This is kind of incoherent- sorry. I work basically straight Thursday morning through Friday night. Which sucks HORRIBLY because the networks put ALL GOOD SHOWS on Thursday night. (Plus the fact that I get no sleep, ha.) I get very pouty about it, lol. I WANT TO WATCH TVD LIVE, WORLD. WHY CAN YOU NOT GIVE ME THAT?

    Not incoherent at all, no worries. (I used to have to wait a few hours to watch the show with my schedule last year, and it was hell, I can't imagine waiting days!!!)

    Anyway, great episode, and I loved your thoughts on it.

    Thank you and back atcha! :)

    KATHERINE!!!
    vanimy: Mad!Loisvanimy on February 17th, 2013 08:03 pm (UTC)
    *waves* I caught up with TVD and the last two episodes and I'm.... kind of pissed/annoyed with this 4x14 ending. I really enjoyed 4x13 which had great character moments and I loved 4x14 until that stupid Jeremy death scene.

    So I'll keep my comment short.

    The good :

    -Damon/Elena give me all the feels forever. I really love how Damon and Elena finally talk about the crux of their issues, ie not the sire bond but Damon's insecurities.

    -Stefan/Rebekah ftw and I really loved this Stefan in those past two episodes.

    -Shane being left on his own, all injured, by everyone was hilarious.

    -Bonnie was so awesome throughout the episode and Bonnie/Jeremy= love, seriously.

    -Silas looks creepy and everything and very good material for the next villain.

    -The new hunter's interesting, I hope he'll stick around long enough.

    -I didn't think Klaus was very annoying in these episodes, lol.

    -Candice Accola crying always makes me tear up the slightest bit.

    -The whole episode and the last minutes had me on the edge of my seat, very good pacing.

    The bad :

    -I didn't like how Damon and Rebekah just lay around being useless while everything was happening. I get why Damon would let Elena find the cure, but not going down there and be there in case something went wrong? So out of character.

    -So Tyler's gone... and I'm supposed to care because....?

    -Same with Klaus/Caroline. *yawns* Just go to your spinoff already.

    The ugly :

    -I'm not even happy about Katherine being back, because 1) I don't know how she could've found them in the island, so unless we're given an explanation for this in next episode, I'm calling bullshit on this one, 2) the fact she used Jeremy to raise Silas was unforgivable with two other people she could've used. I want her to DIAF now.

    -Jeremy being killed off, especially in that manner, deeply annoyed me, I couldn't even be sad or anything, I was pissed. I get the potential for Elena's storyline and how she could turn her humanity off after that but I still think this death and the way it was done was totally unnecessary (especially with another unconscious hunter lying around Katherine could've used instead).

    I don't care how it's done, the writers better bring Jeremy back. Killing off main characters left and right every season isn't the trademark for good writing, it's lazy and it's turning viewers off, including me.

    For now, I'm in denial and I hope one of the options Thomas Galvin listed in his review are going to happen :

    Jeremy was wearing the ring, and the race is on to claim his body before Meredith does an autopsy, killing him for real.

    Jeremy was wearing the ring, but being a Hunter has clutzed up the magic and he’s really dead. But:

    Shane was convinced everyone who died for Silas’ resurrection would come back with Silas. [...]

    Arabian: Damon & Elena05arabian on February 18th, 2013 12:25 am (UTC)
    Katherine couldn't use Bonnie or Vaughn because of Jeremy. Had she tried to feed Silas with Bonnie, Jeremy would have fought her and with his Hunter skills it would have taken more time than she had to deal with knowing that Elena and one or both of the Salvatore boys was on the way. Same with Vaughn, Jeremy would have fought her. By using Jeremy, she didn't have to worry about dealing with anyone else because those two were down for the count.

    As to how Katherine knew -- until told otherwise, it's pretty clear to me that Katherine was the other interested party who was going after the tombstone that Stefan and Rebekah wondered about. And considering a few people (including myself) put Katherine out there as a possibility it doesn't stretch imagination to believe that it was her. We know that Katherine's modus operandi includes having people in place to feed her information. She was tracking what was going on in Mystic Falls. She did in in season 01 -- showing up in MF, knowing what was going on. She actually saw her doing it in action in Chicago. This is what Katherine does.

    Finally, I don't think it's lazy storytelling at all. It's bold, realistic (as possible considering the supernatural element of the show) storytelling. These characters are in death-defying situations ALL THE TIME. That none of them would come out of these situations dead is highly unbelievable. As much as I love these characters (and Tyler is the only one I'd want to see die, damnit!), I love that they do die... because it would make no sense otherwise. That they would keep walking away alive to fight another day, is crazy unbelievable. So I applaud the show for taking that hard road, knowing it's going to piss off some viewers, because it is what makes the most sense for the story.

    Will Jeremy come back? The only way I see it is if Elena goes after Katherine to get the cure from her... and it can be used to bring Jeremy back. If that doesn't happen, though, I'm OK with it -- as much as I love Jeremy -- because, again, these people are in CRAZY dangerous circumstances and if there are no stakes and we know that they are all going to come out alive no matter what, it becomes ho-hum... just creating these dangerous situations for plot-driven moments. Because characters do die on this show (even if some of them come back), it adds to the emotional viscera for the viewer because anything CAN happen... and that's how it SHOULD be because of all the crazy danger surrounding them. So we disagree on this. :(

    I really love how Damon and Elena finally talk about the crux of their issues

    And this wouldn't have happened this soon WITHOUT the sire bond. So, I think that's a big reason why they went that route, because it would open the door to some great issue-discussion.

    not going down there and be there in case something went wrong? So out of character.

    I think he was done for the moment. There were too many factors in play that led to that moment so I don't think it was OOC. He and Elena had just had a fight, and Elena didn't look all too thrilled to see him, telling him that she was still upset with him, but more than that, him seeing Elena and Stefan together after he'd just told her that Stefan was who she would get her human happy ever after with compounded his issues. He had just been tortured and was dealing with the aftereffects without any blood to help him. He was weak, miserable, and he knew that all of their grand plans were done for with only one cure left.

    And with that only one cure left, he was giving up his dream (he believed) of any future with Elena. If there were multiple cures, then he had the option -- if she still wanted him -- to go the human route after all, maybe try with her. But with only one cure, Elena would be human again, and we know he 100% believes that if she's human, she chooses Stefan. And so in the midst of ALL OF THAT, he was done for the moment. He's had his moments in the past where he was just done and took a break from fighting, this was just another one, that was heightened by his physical weakness as well.

    I thought both episodes were really well-done, and I'm still gung-ho for this season all the way.
    vanimy: Rosevanimy on February 19th, 2013 08:19 pm (UTC)
    He's had his moments in the past where he was just done and took a break from fighting

    See, I can't remember one moment, can you enlighten me? :)

    I get Damon feeling down but he never gave up on Elena's safety before, even when she didn't return his feelings. Sure she's a vampire now but I just think everyone seemed to take this whole situation too lightly. For all they knew Shane could've woken up Big Bad Silas or used Bonnie to make her kill everyone or something. To wait there while everything was going on down the well? I just don't buy it, I remember Damon finding a way to be there in the midst of action when Elena went to Jeremy's rescue in 5x05, even without a daylight ring. I can't see him being stopped by a little bit of torture when Elena's life could be in balance for all they knew.

    Re : Jeremy dying. Maybe my being pissed is a way of coping, lol. Apart from Jeremy being on my list of favorite characters who can never ever die, I just think killing off Elena's last family member is too cruel for me and will lead to too bleak storylines. Just thinking about next episode makes me feel depressed as hell. It's just too much.

    I'm about this close to wanting Elena to die herself so the poor girl can be left alone. Seriously, what's the point in living? She's lost every single person now.

    Arabian: Dr Who (10)arabian on February 20th, 2013 03:37 am (UTC)
    can you enlighten me?

    ETA: When I said "fighting" I meant in regards to fighting for Elena, to be as good for, etc.

    In 2.13 he let go of Elena by the end starting something with Andie because he couldn't be who she wanted, and he and Elena didn't share any significant scenes until 2.18. In 3.04, at the end, he was done with Elena and everyone and left town. In 3.13, even though Elena called him, he didn't answer her call after Klaus said that both he and Stefan were bad for her, and after 3.15, he pulled away emotionally from her big-time when she was all alone and things were falling apart.

    As for him not going with them, crawling over to Rebekah and pulling the stakes out of her wore him out. He had been captured the night before and Vaughn had been torturing him all day. Stefan was at full-strength. Elena was at full-strength. In the weakened state he was in, unless Jeremy or Bonnie decided to let Damon have a nice, long drink of their blood, he would have been a hindrance rather than a help.

    She's lost every single person now.

    In her technical family, yes, but she still has Damon, Bonnie, Caroline and Stefan, and she loves all of those people.

    I'm not saying this isn't going to be a depressing batch of episodes, but depressing doesn't mean bad. 2.21 and 2.22 were depressing as hell, but were also some of my favorite episodes ever! 2.01 was REALLY depressing -- 3rd best episode of the series, in my opinion. 1.14 and 1.17 (especially the latter) majorly depressing... OUTSTANDING episodes. 3.09 -- depressing? Yes. Awesome? Yes.



    Edited at 2013-02-20 09:16 am (UTC)
    vanimy: Rebekahvanimy on February 20th, 2013 08:11 pm (UTC)
    In her technical family, yes, but she still has Damon, Bonnie, Caroline and Stefan, and she loves all of those people.

    I'm sorry but this is so not the same thing... Elena's too young for being without no family whatsoever, especially given the way those people died. Any normal person would be in a mental facility by now. I don't watch TV shows to see people losing and losing and losing without any hope in sight. Real life is depressing enough.

    2x21 is one of my favorite episodes ever and I cry like a baby every single time I watch it but it wasn't the same thing. Elena still had Jeremy and Jenna hadn't been there a lot before the writers decided to kill her off. I didn't really miss her as a character. The writers using her as a plot device for Elena's growth didn't bother me. Jeremy's always been more than that IMO.

    I think it would be like... IDK, killing off Ron and/or Hermione after Harry Potter lost Dumbledore. Or like Buffy losing her sister after losing her mother. Even Joss Whedon didn't go that far. Killing off Elena's brother is too much.

    But I'm aware this is my point of view and I'm glad for you if you like this turn of events. ;)

    Who knows, maybe next episode will win me over, but I can't say I'm looking forward to the rest of the season right now. I guess we'll see.
    Arabian: Rebekah03arabian on February 20th, 2013 10:20 pm (UTC)
    Eek! I forgot Matt! Matt too. And I know it's not the same thing technically, but in many ways, these people -- especially because of their shared experiences recently, and in light of the fact that she's known Bonnie, Caroline and Matt since she was a young child -- they truly are like family. Nothing will convince me that she doesn't love Bonnie and Caroline as if they were her sisters in every way but blood.

    I'm glad for you if you like this turn of events

    Of course, I don't like the turn of events. I hate that Jeremy is dead. I hate that they killed him. But, I trust this show, its writers. They haven't let me down yet when looking at the big picture. All the things that I got upset about in season 03 all clearly had a purpose that made perfect sense to me by the midway point of season 04. So I trust that there is a method to this story-telling and I'm going to wait it out to see where things are going.
    prettygirl5130: pic#119743568prettygirl5130 on February 21st, 2013 04:34 am (UTC)
    I was just reading through this conversation and i'm thinking that yes there is a method to the writers' madness in killing off Jeremy. I think the number 1 reason for the writers doing this is for Elena to finally accept vampirism. The only reason Elena was even wanting the cure, besides for the bond which as she said she's fine with and will figure it out later, was becasue of Jeremy and her relationship with Jeremy. Well, that is gone now and we all know that whether he's telling the truth or not, Damon doesn't want to be human at this time. So, the writers have systematically taken away the one big reason for Elena wanting the cure and her humanity back. Now, she can finally accept the vamp lifestyle and embrace it and through this change, part of her and Damon's situation of their relationship being doomed no matter what they do would be solved. Elena accepts her vamp lifestyle and will probably be fine with Damon's want of staying a vamp. The only issue left is the bond and knowing these writers, i'm sure they'll figure that out too in some way.

    If you look at it this way, Jeremy dying is actually a way to make progress Elena's character and the love triangle. It puts Damon and Elena in the same place emotionally in their lives. Does it suck? Yes and it's really, really sad but I think it was needed in the long run for Elena's character. She would have never fully accepted her vamp lifestyle and would constantly be searching for a way out because of her brother but now, he's gone and Elena can move on and live a little.
    Arabian: Elena06arabian on February 21st, 2013 06:59 am (UTC)
    When I was talking to sarcasticcheese after the show ended, I told her that I had been wondering how they were going to deal with Jeremy and his anti-vamp stance... I confess it never crossed my mind that they would kill him. But yup that does it!

    And you give more credence to it with the whole bit about Elena accepting her vampirism. Interesting.
    wiccabuffy: TVD - Katherine/Fuck Youwiccabuffy on February 21st, 2013 06:59 pm (UTC)
    (Icon only because KATHERINE!!!!!!)


    I'm bummed for Elena that Jeremy died and more shocked than anything else, but I'm glad he had a good storyline to go out on. It seems that's the way to go these days on TVD (Vickie becoming the first series regular to be turned, Jenna becoming a vampire and part of the ritual, Alaric and the ring/becoming evil, Jeremy and the Hunter's story). I wish I could say I was sad, but so far the only deaths that affected me at all were Jenna's (being pissed) and Alaric's (which is the only time TVD made me cry).

    YAY KATHERINE! I'm guessing that yes, she is using the tombstone and the cure as leverage against Klaus, which could lead to the spin-off.

    Rebekah looking out for herself (snapping Stefan's neck) but then being nice to Damon. Awwww! I love her.

    Caroline crying = great acting. Again, not a fan of Caroline/Tyler and because he's leaving again, it didn't have an impact on me. Klaus' threats, feeding Caroline blood to save her, etc were all much more interesting. I know people are complaining saying that Tyler is the better, healthier choice and that Klaus is evil and an abuser. Um... it's a TV show and they are fictional??? Also for me, Klaus/Caroline and Damon/Elena are much more interesting in terms of push/pull, sexual tension, the "bad guy" seeking redemption, etc.

    Looks like Matt's back tonight, so maybe he'll help Elena deal with everything? Wish I could watch the show live....
    Arabian: Katherine03arabian on February 24th, 2013 04:17 am (UTC)
    I'm glad he had a good storyline to go out on. It seems that's the way to go these days on TVD

    Yup and as I commented to someone above, the deaths have meaning. They matter and generally open the door to some good character stuff down the road.

    she is using the tombstone and the cure as leverage against Klaus

    I just couldn't see it as anything else, and I'm glad that Stefan mentioned that in the following episode.

    Um... it's a TV show and they are fictional??? Also for me, Klaus/Caroline and Damon/Elena are much more interesting in terms of push/pull, sexual tension, the "bad guy" seeking redemption, etc.

    This, plus, I'm not saying Klaus is a good guy (like ever), and technically Tyler is better and healthier than Klaus, but Tyler is not good or healthy really. He has a history of abuse himself, and by making it all about Caroline -- saying she's the only good part of himself -- that's not very healthy and puts way too much on her. So, yeah.