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08 February 2013 @ 04:08 am
4.13 - 'Into The Wild' (The Vampire Diaries)  
Another Thursday, another new Vampire Diaries ... YAY!!!

But before I start -- PLEASE DO NOT SPOIL ME. I'm not watching webclips. I'm not watching any episode preview other than the one that airs right after the show. I'm not looking at episode stills -- unless I accidentally get spoiled, grr. I'm not reading episode synopses. I'm not reading/watching interviews or following the actor/creators TVD-related tweets. Basically, rule of thumb: If it has not aired, please do not mention it in this post. Thank you; I really appreciate it. :)

I really liked this one. The atmosphere in this episode was a bit different than any other. I think it was partially because there really were only two stories. We've had something similar before (such as "Klaus," "The End of the Affair" and "Ordinary People"), but there were flashbacks and different locales which made it feel, I dunno, more populated and with a broader concentration. This time, there was essentially the Gilbert home and the woods and that gave the episode a tense, narrowed focus that I think really worked. Frankly, I was riveted throughout the whole episode. This was a really great episode.

Cure Island

I was really surprised at how there were NO Stefan/Elena moments. I expected looks, a moment here or there, just something, anything... and it really wasn't there. Other than the fact that Rebekah, Damon and Shane clearly just assumed that once Elena gets the cure that she'll run back to Stefan, nothing pointed to Stefan and Elena's potential reunion at all. Elena remains completely convinced that she loves Damon and wants to be with him. Full-stop. She also showed zero reaction to Stefan *and* Rebekah. Unlike in "All My Children," where much of her anger did seem motivated by jealousy over Rebekah with Damon, here, it really did come across as all about the fact that Rebekah had tried to kill her.

When it became clear that Elena was going to be stuck with Stefan and Rebekah, I expected, again, to see those moments with Elena and Stefan. However, the relationship emphasis was solely on Elena and Rebekah. Of course that didn't bother me at all as I couldn't help but think that maybe we might actually be heading to a potential Elena/Rebekah friendship which I've wanted FOREVER! And that Rebekah is heading somewhere good. The two things that really gave me that hope was that Rebekah finally flat-out said that everyone keeps forgetting that she wasn't just killing Elena to kill her, but to save her family, and pointed out that it was something every one of them would have done to save their loved ones. And then she reminded Stefan that Elena was a part of killing two of Rebekah's brothers.

So, we basically got a direct defense for what Rebekah did in a way that fits with the mind frame of our heroes. And on top of that, she saved Elena's life, and agreed completely to work with Elena at the end. Which led to Elena's trademark forgiveness on display and I LOVED it. I love how once Rebekah showed Elena that she's not evil, Elena's all 'bygones' because Elena is that freaking awesome. And she really, really is. I love that we still have empathetic Elena who rushes out to help people (Jeremy, Shane, as well as Damon and Rebekah emotionally), but she also has a harder, clearer view of what's going on around her. And, of course, I love Rebekah and think she's freaking awesome too. So please, pretty, pretty please, let them wind up as friends!!

Which means that Rebekah needs to survive! And right now I'm thinking she's got a 50/50 chance of that. After last week and especially this episode, we're looking at one of two outcomes for her by season's end, I think: She's human and fully part of the group, or she's dead-dead in a terribly tragic way. Obviously, I'm hoping for the first option, and I *think* we're leaning towards that one. I hope so anyway. Partially because as much as I love Matt/Rebekah, I gotta say, damn, Stefan and Rebekah just had me all a'squee and aww and smiling. Seriously, I just don't even know, you guys! Her "crushing" his arm and them against the tree and their little snarky conversations, gah, SO adorable and cute and I love them and UGH! why so perfect?!?!?

  

And speaking of Stefan and Rebekah, I think that Damon was actually wrong about Stefan and why he wanted to bring Rebekah along. I don't think he did so to prove he's over Elena or to get under Damon's skin, he brought her because she wanted to be there... just as he told her in the last episode. So, yeah, I'm thinking now that Stefan was legit with Rebekah in those last few scenes. I sure hope so because I love them!

I also loved the one couply moment with Jeremy and Bonnie. That first scene with them was fantastic, her whole 'sorry, this is embarrassing' and he's all 'I don't mind,' giving her this smirk and we just needed the chicka chicka bow bow music to come into play at that moment. It's so nice seeing this slow burn beginning to build with them all over again. I just love it.


I also love Atticus Shane and his portrayer. David Alpay is just awesome. I'm not saying that I think we should keep this character around, when he's time is done, he should be done, but damn, I'm going to enjoy every moment with him until he has to go. He's just so talented, so charismatic. I think the casting department did an OUTSTANDING job with Alpay. Outside of Claire Holt (Rebekah) and Daniel Gillies (Elijah), I think that he's the best guest/recurring casting the show has done. And even as I love him, and can manage to still feel sorry for Atticus and what he's lost, I still don't trust him and I know there's shifty, sneaky stuff going on. After Elena left him all tied up, he totes smirked, folks. He smirked.

And he's flat-out admitting how he's been using/manipulating Bonnie to get what he wants, to keep himself safe. Just like whoah! I was legit surprised that he just up and admitted that, and then kept trying to manipulate Damon in a very obvious way. I also was surprised, happily so, that Bonnie is no longer trusting Shane and is (hopefully) going to start standing up to him. Quite, quite interesting. Oh, and speaking of Bonnie, yes, Damon does care about Bonnie. He's already saved her life when he didn't have to, and he so was not going to kill Shane. Had Elena not showed up right then -- just like in the premiere when she interrupted him in what she assumed was Damon about to kill Matt -- he would not have killed Shane. I just don't buy that, even less this time than I did with Matt (and I really didn't think that was the case then at all). He was creating leverage with Shane because they sure as hell needed some. Then, of course, Elena showed up and a few seconds later, Shane was left alone, smirking, getting his victory of Damon gone bye-bye. And then he took off with everything needed to get the "cure."

Ah, the cure. It was nice seeing Elena and Damon finally discuss it. What I wasn't expecting was how obvious Elena would be (not that Damon picked up on it until she blurted it out) in wanting Damon to take the cure too, to be human with her. And it struck me that as much as we've heard discussion of Stefan and Elena growing old together from so many other characters, the first time we hear Elena talking about growing old with someone, she's thinking of Damon. And I think that's what stopped him in his tracks. There's the fact that he still clearly does not believe that Elena's feelings for him are real, but I think we're also getting back to that deeply embedded belief of Damon's that not only does he not deserve Elena, but that Stefan does. Yes, Elena got that first part down pat, and I love the fact that she called him out on it, but I don't think she realized how wrapped up that insecurity is in Stefan. It's not just that Damon doesn't believe he deserves it, but he also believes that Stefan does. Stefan is still very much a part of this triangle, but I think (hope, and it's what I wanted to see happen once we got to the Damon/Elena side of things) that his place in the triangle would have more to do with Damon as opposed to Elena. Because I kinda think that Stefan may be as done with Elena as she is with him.

Of the five people talking about Stefan and Elena (of course!) getting back together once she's cured, only Elena is not having it, and Stefan doesn't seem too sure either. In fact I don't know that Stefan would want her back at this point. When Elena was on the ground at the beginning, yes, Stefan went to her, but it didn't come across as 'oh, Elena is down, I must be her hero and help her up!' It was more resigned, like it's what he should do, and of course, Elena was all 'I can get up myself, yo!' The events in "After School Special" seems to have shoved a very firm nail in the coffin of their relationship. And it's almost as if for Stefan, Elena is now, well, tainted, for lack of better word. She's no longer the sweet girl that he fell in love with for everything she wasn't (i.e., Katherine), but she's the Elena that we've heard about pre-parental-loss with a dash of vampire-bad-assedness. Interestingly enough, Rebekah -- when she's not in vengeful-cuz-I-was-screwed-again! mode -- is more the sweet, vulnerable girl in need of her hero than Elena is.

But back to Damon and Elena, I did like how Elena broached the cure discussion in the first scene, almost shy, hoping he'd give her the answer she wanted (that he'd take the cure), and then hinting at it again in the second scene by pointing out that he could take it. It was all nicely leading up to her telling him that she wanted him to take it. She wants to be with him, grow old with him. And I don't know if I can quite articulate how much I adored that section of the scene, as well as so much of the second scene. There is such a sincere, shining truth in how Elena looks at him, tells him how real her feelings are, how very much the idea of being happy with him makes her happy. (And I'll admit, I honestly don't know if it's the directional intent or I'm just such a die-hard Damon/Elena fangirl or if some of those real-life feelings are seeping in because it just feels so much more real and natural when she's talking to Damon. Like even though she was upset and begging him to want this in every line of her body, there was still this happiness at the thought of it infusing every word and I'm not sure that even the greatest actor could pull that off, but maybe, I don't know.)

  

  

*Sigh* Just look at her face! *Double sigh* But then look at his face. :( What is frustrating is that Damon is so caught up in his belief of what he doesn't deserve, what Stefan does that he's ignoring logic when it comes to this stupid sire bond. "I don't want you to be cured," he says, followed by Elena making it clear that not only does she intend to take the cure, but that she wants him to take it too. And where Shane stands in this, I have no idea. Maybe he is a part of keeping the sire bond lie alive or not. I thought maybe he wasn't when he kept pushing about Damon not wanting it because it would end the bond, but then he told Damon that maybe the feelings were real, and of course made it clear that Damon was right, he was manipulating them and trying to make Damon go bye-bye. So... maybe.

I don't know. I do know that I really, really hope the sire bond stuff is resolved by this batch of episodes because Damon and Elena are stalled and there's not much more we can do with them until it's resolved... and it's not making anyone happy (including viewers). One other thing about the cure discussion... did anyone else get the impression that Elena might eventually decide to NOT take the cure to prove she loves Damon and wants to be with him? I just got that vibe from that scene when she asked him to do that for her. I don't know. All I do know is that while I want it resolved, for the next few episodes, I'm OK with things still being up in the air because we do know that sirebond or not, the feelings are real and Elena does love Damon. Right now, this is helping them to suss out those feelings not just about each other, but their place in each other's lives and how this is all going to play out once it's resolved. Interesting, indeed.

While I do want it resolved, I have to say that this episode showed me exactly why we got the sire bond twist. I see it being used as a way to explore Damon issues and Damon/Elena issues before they really step into a relationship. And it's not only about his insecurities, and that Elena does grasp some of those insecurities -- that he doesn't believe he deserves love -- but also that she's still learning fully what those issues are (as I reasoned above that it's not just about Damon believing he doesn't deserve, but that Stefan does.) It's also about showing that as much as Damon knows and loves Elena, he doesn't fully know her, and he doesn't fully trust her.

Which brings us to him telling her that he missed being human but now he can't imagine anything more miserable. Honestly, I do think he was lying about that and I think it's because as much as he loves Elena, and he does trust her overall, I don't believe that he trusts her with his heart. And that makes perfect sense. Since he can't believe that he deserves love (and that Stefan does) and since she's spent almost every moment he knows her 'always, Stefan' pre-vampire (well, actually pre-Hunter-kill-hallucination) days, he just can't buy that it's happening.

As for not fully knowing Elena, well, that was clear too. Damon was wrong when he said that 'unicorns and rainbows' is what Elena was suggesting about the cure changing things. That is NOT what she was saying. All she is saying is that she loves Damon and the cure will not change THAT and it's not the cure that will make things fixed for them, but Damon didn't or won't get that right now. And I love , how this whole sire bond thing is opening that discussion. It keeps in line with how well the show uses plots and twists to create character-driven story; we are getting that here. The writers are using the sire bond to open discussion up about Damon, Elena and how their love will effect their hearts and lives. It's heart-breaking, but great storytelling as well and I'm excited for where this is going. (Because I do think the end result will be great for Damon and Elena and Damon.)

The Big, Bad Hybrid

Seriously, Tyler? I mean, seriously? And Caroline, let's throw one at you too... seriously? Counting your chickens before they hatch, aren't ya? You guys do NOT know what is going to happen with this cure, if it's even real, if it will actually work. And Tyler just because you surmise that IF the cure works and IF you can get it to Klaus that it will sever the bloodline connection doesn't mean that this is actually what will happen. Why, why, why would both of them, especially Tyler, stand there and insult and TAUNT Klaus? While he may have finally showed some smarts by leaving a dying Caroline in Klaus' eye line, prior to that, Tyler was just really, really stupid in this episode. I get that he's upset about his mother. Of course, I get that, but still... come on. You have a brain, use it!

While Caroline wasn't as taunting, she took way too many potshots at Klaus as well. Neither of them have any clue what is actually going to happen with this cure. So stupid. Ugh. Caroline's pretty damn lucky that she is right about the fact that Klaus has fallen for her, because otherwise, her ass would be toast. *sigh* I was really struck by something in the Klaus/Caroline scenes... I just can't with them. I know that it's coming from me as a Damon fan, I completely get that bias and am not even remotely trying to pretend it's not in play. It is. Period. I just can't with her hypocrisy. She can look at Klaus and see that he's capable of being saved, capable of being good... but Damon is pure evil? Really? Don't get me wrong, I get it. I get why she feels this way, fair or not, Damon treats her like shit and Klaus treats her like she's a goddess.

I get it. I love Caroline, I love her, flaws and all, and so I'm totally fine with her being a hypocrite, I just need it acknowledged. I need someone to call her on it, for her to own up to it and then not apologize for it because Damon treats her like shit and Klaus treats her like a goddess. That would work for me. But she needs to be called on it. Until she is, I can't with any scene between her and Klaus where she's all seeing and acknowledging his softer side because as a Damon fan, I just see red. And, frankly, the chemistry between Candice Accola and Joseph Morgan isn't strong enough to overcome that for me. The bottom-line is that as long as I only see Caroline --

a) Bitching about how evil Damon is and how different Elena is because of the sirebond and how epic Elena and Stefan are!
b) With Tyler.
c) Being giggly and flirting with Klaus and/or wanting to forget the bad things he's done.

I just can't enjoy the character as I did before. It really says something that in a scene where Caroline is dying, I felt sorry for THE EVIL GUY WHO IS WHY SHE IS DYING, but didn't really care all that much about Caroline. Morgan continues to really knock it out of the park, showing quiet, vicious dignity while Tyler gloated, taking advantage of Tyler and Caroline's idiocy, silkily taunting Tyler to finally fighting the good that is in him, the feelings that he does feel for Caroline before giving in and saving her life. Klaus and Morgan was awesome. Accola was fabulous. Caroline? Needs some freaking reckoning and some character-directional course before I can ever call her awesome again. And that makes me sad.

*Sigh* Ya'll, Tyler's never gonna die, is he? I'm gonna be stuck with him until the show's end, won't I? Damnit.

OK, random stuffies...

- No Matt. :(

- Hah, Rebekah telling Damon his purpose there is because he has a nice behind. (She's right; he does.) Haha, Damon was the eye candy, and he was fine with it, hee!

- So a Hunter snapped Damon's neck. Yeah, that happened, of course, LOL!

- Nina Dobrev and Ian Somerhalder both looked RIDICULOUSLY pretty in that first scene together in the daylight and Elena in her cute cap.

- I was really, really surprised that after Damon and Elena kissed, the shot didn't cut away to Stefan in the shadows watching them. Surprised, but happy. :)

- When Stefan said that he wanted the cure "for me," I was so proud of him. Good answer, Stefan!

- Does it feel weird for anyone else when Damon is casually referred to as Elena's boyfriend (as Shane did)? I mean, we really never got anything even approaching official with them, just the one night (and morning) of hot sex and then boom! the sire bond axe came down and they've been keeping their distance for the most part since then. So, yeah, it just feels weird.

- And once again, there was no "I love you" face to face, and there were so many opportunities for it to happen. Yup, I still think they're saving it for 'happy/happy 'sirebond-broken/not real-whichever times.' Uh huh.

- I cracked up at Elena's "What the hell are you doing?" to Damon, and then once he left turned it on Shane: "What did you say to him?" Hah!

- It was all creepy when Bonnie was following a trail of fire that disappeared behind her. Also? Forest fire!

- So Caitlin was a witch? Hmmm........ interesting. And Shane from one year ago was a lot more sympathetic then the creepy!Professor we've come to know.

And now Shane has Bonnie and Jeremy separated from everyone else, Damon is all kidnapped (again), and Elena, Rebekah and Stefan are teaming up.... whee! I can't wait until next week!

Really, I thought this was a fantastic episode. Just stellar stuff. Caroline Dries rocks it out again!
 
 
 
tj2013tj2013 on February 8th, 2013 11:30 am (UTC)
That was a great episode and your recap nailed it down, as usual. Thanks for putting it up so quickly! I agree with pretty much everything you said.
I just loved the moment when Damon takes Elena in his arms, puts his chin on her head and looks into the woods. He looks scared, so vulnerable in this very moment and I think that feelings made him say what he told Elena later about the cure. I am not sure why he would say that being human would be so miserable, though. I mean, I get that he is not the same person anymore as in 2x12 when he admitted to Jessica that he missed being human so much. That was a time when he was sure he would never live up to Elena's oder Stefan's standards - and I assumed that he is now much more comfortable with being a vampire. But miserable? Where did that come from?
This island has magic, so maybe it wasn't only Shane messing (expertly) with all of their minds, but maybe there is something else, something evil, on this island. Not necessarily Silas, but some, I don't know, evil vibes.
Hah, and did you see the promo for next week? Don't want to spoil you but there was something I think is worth noting...
Arabian: Damon & Elena(PR)04arabian on February 9th, 2013 10:23 pm (UTC)
I have no clue why I didn't mention Damon's human comment in my post, I went back and edited this into my post. Damon saying that he missed being a human once, but now he can't imagine anything more miserable is because I do think he's lying about that and I think it's because as much as he loves Elena, and he does trust her overall, I don't believe that he trusts her with his heart. And that makes perfect sense. Since he can't believe that he deserves love (and that Stefan does) and since she's spent almost every moment he knows her 'always, Stefan' pre-vampire days, he just can't buy that it's happening. So, yeah, he doesn't trust her with his heart.

I do watch the promos for the next week (US only, not Canadian or Australian ones - which are generally WAY too spoilery).
tj2013tj2013 on February 13th, 2013 10:24 pm (UTC)
I thought about Damon's line: "you don't know my friends." I loved that. Damon admits having friends. Wow. He is certain that they will come to his rescue. Can't repeat how much I loved that.
Just a litte sentence, meaning so much...
I am REALLY looking forward to the next episode.
Arabian: Damon13arabian on February 14th, 2013 06:15 am (UTC)
I am curious to see how that plays out, definitely. :)
bangel_4e: delena-hugbangel_4e on February 8th, 2013 11:52 am (UTC)
First this, this was a great, great, great episode...I enjoyed everything they gave us and I love all the developments shown.
So, let's start with...

Unlike in "All My Children," where much of her anger did seem motivated by jealousy over Rebekah with Damon, here, it really did come across as all about the fact that Rebekah had tried to kill her.
I also noticed this and I was at the same time surprised and relieved. I just really liked the whole Rebekkah/Elena dynamic this episode. I loved Rebekkah saving her and Elena then showing her most powerful trait. There's something so similar about them...Elena has compassion and looks beyond people and Rebekkah keeps going second chances, no matter how many times people screw her up. They give and give. And I could really see them becoming friends. I really could.

AND YEAH, STEFAN/REBEKKAH...I SHIP IT. So cute.

Oh, and speaking of Bonnie, yes, Damon does care about Bonnie. He's already saved her life when he didn't have to, and he so was not going to kill Shane. Had Elena not showed up right then -- just like in the premiere when she interrupted him in what she assumed was Damon about to kill Matt -- he would not have killed Shane. I just don't buy that

100% agreed.

And it struck me that as much as we've heard discussion of Stefan and Elena growing old together from so many other characters, the first time we hear Elena talking about growing old with someone, she's thinking of Damon
I thought their scenes were perfection during this episode. Both Nina & Ian gave spectacular performances. And yep, she is thinking of Damon. I'm just...I don't even know what to say that it isn't already displayed clearly during this beautiful scene. It just warms my heart. We have all of Damon's insecurities about him and also in regards of Stefan which is the worthy brother...oh, how I wish he could overcome those...maybe once all is resolved and he'll see that Elena loves him anyway.

did anyone else get the impression that Elena might eventually decide to NOT take the cure to prove she loves Damon and wants to be with him?
It actually did cross my mind for a brief moment but I dont' know if this will ever be a choice Elena would make...I just don't know.

I just can't with her hypocrisy.
Caroline is indeed a huge hypocrite...which as you said, wasn't that that huge of a problem.. I love her character (even though lately she lost her appeal to me) but COME ON! How come you can't see good in Damon too?? This is messed up. I get why she has a stronger hate for Damon but you can forgive Klaus??? Ugh...I just think the show should've addressed Caroline and Damon issues long ago and all this wouldn't be a problem. As you said, someone should point that out to her.

But as far as Klaroline goes...I love these two. I really wish we could get something more but it's not gonna happen.

*Sigh* Ya'll, Tyler's never gonna die, is he? I'm gonna be stuck with him until the show's end, won't I? Damnit.
You read my mind.
Arabian: Damon & Elena02arabian on February 9th, 2013 10:38 pm (UTC)
It really was a great episode, I agree.

There's something so similar about them...Elena has compassion and looks beyond people and Rebekkah keeps going second chances, no matter how many times people screw her up. They give and give. And I could really see them becoming friends. I really could.

Yup, yup, yup. I love the idea of these two together so much. We saw in "Ordinary People," which Caroline Dries co-wrote -- and she wrote this episode -- that there are definite similarities between Elena and Rebekah, and I can't help but be hopeful about these two.

AND YEAH, STEFAN/REBEKKAH...I SHIP IT. So cute.

I KNOW!!!!

We have all of Damon's insecurities about him and also in regards of Stefan which is the worthy brother...oh, how I wish he could overcome those...maybe once all is resolved and he'll see that Elena loves him anyway.

I'm so happy about this, though, because these are the REAL issues that Damon and Elena have. Go back to "Daddy Issues," where Damon scoffed at the 'other guy' being the problem. He knew then, he knows deep down that HIS issues are the issue and they do need to be dealt with before these two can work long-term, so I'm excited for where this is going. (Because I do think the end result will be great for D/E and Damon.)

It actually did cross my mind for a brief moment but I dont' know if this will ever be a choice Elena would make...I just don't know.

Hmm, the fact that it did cross your mind too, does make me wonder.....

I get why she has a stronger hate for Damon but you can forgive Klaus???

I am OK with her forgiving Klaus -- I mean, Elena has forgiven Damon for some HORRIBLE things -- and it's because Damon is worthy of forgiveness. I don't think that Klaus is, but I can't be a hypocrite and say that it's wrong to say that Klaus is forever unforgivable and he and Caroline do have forever technically for him to become worthy of forgiveness. My issue is that there's not acknowledgement at this point of her hypocrisy.

However....

I just think the show should've addressed Caroline and Damon issues long ago and all this wouldn't be a problem.

There really wouldn't have been time or necessity for it before now, though. So I'm OK with it not happening before now... it just needs to happen now (or soon-ish), and I'm hopeful that it IS going to come out by season's end, so we'll see.

RE: K/C -- again, I think they have chemistry and I can understand the appeal, but for me, I don't ship them. Klaus and Caroline may have forever, but I don't (LOL!) and right now, Klaus has done way too much for me to buy Caroline being OK with him. And, yeah, there's the whole Damon-stan part of me that gets frustrated with her unacknowledged hypocrisy.
bangel_4e: klaroline dancebangel_4e on February 9th, 2013 11:07 pm (UTC)
I am OK with her forgiving Klaus -- I mean, Elena has forgiven Damon for some HORRIBLE things -- and it's because Damon is worthy of forgiveness. I don't think that Klaus is, but I can't be a hypocrite and say that it's wrong to say that Klaus is forever unforgivable and he and Caroline do have forever technically for him to become worthy of forgiveness. My issue is that there's not acknowledgement at this point of her hypocrisy.

But I don't think she can't forgive Klaus...How I wish she would but that's not what I was saying. I was saying that if she can forgive Klaus, she can also forgive Damon. It's harder of course but the whole hypocrisy thing bothers me for this reason..and because no one ever says anything about it. So we agree on the unacknowledged hypocrisy.

and right now, Klaus has done way too much for me to buy Caroline being OK with him.

This, I agree on. As much as I would like to see them together, now's really not the time and too much stuff happened.
prettygirl5130: pic#119743568prettygirl5130 on February 8th, 2013 03:07 pm (UTC)
Wow there was a lot of angst going on in this episode!

First off...Caroline and Tyler. Wow! They were so stupid. Why were they even in the Gilber House? Why even taunt Klaus? Tyler is just so stupid and I know he's hurting because of his Mom, but come on! He was not thinking straight and neither was Caroline for allowing it to happen. I didn't really feel anything when Klaus bit Caroline and she was dying...I don't know why. I guess it was just one time too many. They already did that storyline last season and i'm kind of over the whole Klaus feeds Caroline his blood like a baby. it's lost it's magic, I guess. I also don't really believe that Caroline see any good in Klaus at all. She was just manipulating him by using his feelings for her to get what she wanted and it was all part of Tyler's plans to save her. elena did the same thing with Damon in seasons 1 and 2. She would use Damon's feelings for her to get what the gang wanted. These girls are so manipulative it's not even funny.

Second of all...I just have to say this loud and clear so everyone can hear..."GO STEFAN!" No seriously I was so proud of him last night in a big way. I was proud of him for acting semi-mature about the girls and keeping away from his brother. I was proud that he helped Elena up and was just trying to keep the peace. I was also really proud of his protection and sincerity when it came to Rebekah. I don't know if he was actually telling the truth to Rebekah at the fire when he said that he wouldn't be taking the cure for Elena, but I do think he was telling the truth in the tent to both girls. I think once Rebekah pointed out her and Elena's similarities in their bad deeds that Stefan was able to see Elena for who she really is and who she's always been...a survivor and not this pure human girl...he was able to let Elena go and his future with her and instead get what he wants. So proud of him saying that he wants the cure for himself. So once again, GO STEFAN!!

Also really, really, really hoping we'll see a friendship between Rebekah and Elena. They have a great chemistry and it's time Elena makes some new friends.

Now onto Damon and Elena....oh boy! Okay, I loved all of their scenes and they do angst so well. I also had the same feelings you did deep down that I do wonder if it's just easier for Nina and Ian to do these type of scenes where she's proclaiming her love all happy and glowy because there are real feelings there. I mean Nina is a great actress, her portrayal of both Kat and Elena show this, but the way she looks at Damon in these situations is just out of this world. I don't know if she's THAT GOOD of an actress when you don't have all that much time tor really get that look down while shooting a TV series. She certaintly didn't look that way when she was working with Paul is all i'm saying.

You know it's all so fast...and I know that that's really not true because we've waited so long for Damon and Elena that it not THAT fast, but all of these emotions and feelings coming from Elena just seems like a waterfall that you do have to wonder if it's all going to be taken away once the bond is broken. Rationally and story wise, for the writers to take it all away is just horrible writing and that has nothing to do with my Delena shipping heart. If they wanted to leave the possibility that Elena may not be with Damon once the bond is broken they wouldn't have included so many of their key, huge, monumental moments in this sire bond story arc. So, rationally, it doesn't make sense other than for Damon to finally get his happy ending...no matter how he may not believe he deserves it. On the other hand, these writers are laying it on thick, like really thick. You have to wonder if what Elena is saying isn't started by something else like a bond. I just don't know for sure.

One last thing...um why didn't the bond take affect when Damon told Elena straight to her face he doesn't want her to be cured? Is that foreshadowing of the bond being fake? Or is that not how the bond works? HOW does this vamp bond works? If they're going to keep it around they better start defining it in clear and unwaivering terms because otherwise this bond come on in stages...apparently.
prettygirl5130: pic#119743568prettygirl5130 on February 8th, 2013 06:51 pm (UTC)
You know i'm answering myself here because I think the bond could still take affect. Just like the blood issues in the first half of the season, elena can still do what she wants but her body will not allow her to do it in the end unless Damon is okay with it. So she may not be able to take the cure because of the bond and if Damon is with Vaughn in the next episode...that's that hunter guy....then he may not be able to "fix it" like he did with the bloodbags in 4.8. So the bond could still be real and it may affect whether or not Elena can actually be human in the first place.
Arabian: Damon & Elena27arabian on February 9th, 2013 10:58 pm (UTC)
But she responded completely differently. We have seen Damon definitively use the sire bond twice. The first was at the lake house when she sent her away (which is what she did NOT want) and when he told her to come to him (which, using HER words, per her voicemails, she emphatically DID want). The first when she didn't want it, she fought him, she felt it from the very beginning, and her body fought it. We got absolutely ZERO indication of that this time.
prettygirl5130: pic#119743568prettygirl5130 on February 10th, 2013 04:17 am (UTC)
This is what's confusing to a lot of people because according to Julie the bond gives the illusion of free will and that's why the whole blood thing happened, despite Elena going against what Damon said she should do...drink human blood from the vein...so whatever damon says would make him happy or whatever he doesn't want, Elena will end up doing or not doing depending on the situation anyway. So Elena couldn't drink from bloodbags or animals in the beginning because Damon kept on telling her she needs blood from the vein. Damon tells Elena he wants it to be real in 4.8 and Elena tells hims it feel real in 4.10. The same things goes for this cure thing...Damon tells her he doesn't want her to take the cure, for various reasons, and her body will reject said cure. I don't think it's a thing where Damon has to necessarily order Elena to do something for the bond to work, he can just want something and the bond could work. Elena can fight it till the cows come home but she'll be pushed to do it anyway, even if she doesn't realize it...the illusion of free will.

Now, i'm not saying that they can't make it fake because the definition Julie gave was on her Twitter account and any regular viewer would have no clue about any of this stuff and they really haven't explored or defined the bond on the show, which is where it counts. So it could still be fake, but I don't think Elena trying to find the cure despite Damon's needs means that the cure is fake. It just means she's going against the bond, but most likely the bond will win out in the end even if Elena doesn't realize it. Her body will reject the cure or she'll end up changing her mind on wanting the cure in the future.

I'm one of those people who think the bond is fake, just because taking away a main heroine's free will to another male hero is gross and I don't think Julie would actually write something like that being a very powerful woman herself. BUt I also don't think there's as many plotholes as a lot of fans think the bond story has.
Arabian: Damon & Elena18arabian on February 10th, 2013 06:06 am (UTC)
he can just want something and the bond could work

But that doesn't track either. First of all, either the bond works or it doesn't, no 'could.' It does or it doesn't. And with Damon and Elena... a heckuva lot more often than not, it doesn't. Damon wanted Elena to get the sustenance she needed when she fed off of him (it was quite, quite obvious how very much he wanted that to be the case). A few hours later, she threw his blood up. Damon wanted Elena to turn to him from the get-go, it took her nearly killing Matt for her to agree to get his help ... which she then rejected after having a taste of his methods. Damon wanted Elena to have fun and let go at the party, revel and enjoy being a vampire like him. Once Elena realized what she was doing, she hated it, backed away and didn't return to doing it despite the fact that Damon wanted her too.

Damon did not want Elena to play ANY part in the take-down Connor plan. He only conceded when he couldn't do anything since Stefan took his ring. That was all what Elena wanted to do, Damon did not want her to do it. Yet, she did it. Damon wanted Elena to choose him, to want him, she stuck with Stefan, she stayed with Stefan, it was until the emotional breakthrough of "We All Go A Little Mad Sometimes" that Elena admitted to herself that it was Damon she wanted; the supposed sire bond wasn't the push. If it was about what Damon wanted, then Elena would have been with Damon after she turned.

There are several moments, things, occurrences throughout that pointed to things that Damon wanted Elena to do, to say that she did not or say and in fact did the opposite of what he wanted.
prettygirl5130: pic#119743568prettygirl5130 on February 10th, 2013 06:02 pm (UTC)
All of those occurences though that you mentioned...Elena ending up going with what Damon ultimately wanted except for when he backed down like with the Connor situation. So that's why Julie is saying it gives the illusion of free will because it makes it seem like Elena is making all of the decisions in what she wants to do...like the feeding issue...but she ends up doing it anyway either by her body telling/making her do these things or by a change of thought.

When they went to that party in 4.4, Elena was going to learn how to feed from people...that was her and Damon's main goal. That's basically what happened...sure she was reluctant and her conscious was getting in the way in the beginning but ultimately she did exactly what that trip intended. Afterwards she ran back to Stefan and kind of raged against the machine because that's not what she wanted for herself at all, but she enjoyed it nonetheless. You can say that's the vampire nature coming through but you can also make an argument that the bond was taking affect and almost "pushing" Elena forward. They probably wrote it like that for a reason so they can make the reveal of the bond a surprise.

When it came to the feeding situation...the first thing Damon wanted above all else is for Elena to drink blood from the vein and he even offered a few humans at the grill, but Elena said no. What happens? Even after Damon tried to help her by feeding her his blood, the only thing that ultimately worked was feeding from the vein, just like Damon wanted. So, like I said, she can rage all she wants and go against what Damon wants, but she will ultimately do what the bond wants, even if Damon offers other options because that's not what damon needs for her to do.

I don't think the feelings Elena has are at all connected to Damon at all. So if she feels like killing herself and Damon doesn't want that, the bond won't take affect at all because like Tyler said it doesn't affect feelings. If Elena wants to date Stefan, then she could because those are feelings, not actions. This is why Elena was still able to resist going to Damon in the beginning of the season...it's all about feelings. What may have affected Elena's feelings is vampirism. I have always said that if anyone is going to blame Delena happening this season on anything it should be vampirism.

If you go by Julie's definition then it makes sense. I think part of the problem with this story is that really the only big example of the bond that we're really familiar with is the Tyler/Klaus bond and they've already told us that vamp bonds are completely different. IT's not on an order by order basis, like with hybrid bonds, it's more of a subliminal connection that's so "tricky" because it hides itself sometimes and make both participants believe that they aren't connected at all when really they are. it's also tricky because they haven't defined it on the show, the characters have little information or trustworthy sources to believe and refer to, and every example of the bond working has another explanation.

In the end though, I think it'll be fake because if it's real it takes away a lot of Elena's true progression this season as a character. I mean, she would really be what Kol calls a "Mary Sue" vampire. That's not cool and totally depletes Elena's vampire storyline. So it'll probably be fake at least I hope so...
Arabian: Alaric02arabian on February 10th, 2013 10:41 pm (UTC)
Then why did she react as she did at the lake house? That was so significantly different. As was they way Charlotte acted. Sorry, but we're not going to agree on this. Elena didn't eventually do what Damon wanted. He wanted her to have fun and revel in being a vampire like him, she has not done that. She doesn't do what he did, what he wanted. He wanted her to drink from him. She didn't go back to that, she hasn't done it since.

Julie's definition makes zero sense. I don't see how it does at all. We just disagree on this. Way too many things that Damon wanted, Elena doesn't. Elena doesn't give in, she doesn't do what he wanted. The change came not after she became a vampire, but after the emotional breakthrough in WAGALMS. That was just too significant a thing to happen. If this is really what Julie is going with and not just trying to convince people on twitter to keep it going, then I will be disappointed because it does not make sense. It doesn't. You think it does, I do not. The bottom line is that Damon didn't WANT Elena to drink from the vein -- he drinks from blood bags -- and Damon didn't want Elena to drink animal blood. The key thing with the vein is that Damon THOUGHT she needed to drink from the vein, because the animal blood, and drinking from him (the vein, just not human, which he never specified) and the blood bags didn't seem to be working).

Eventually Elena doing some of the things Damon would have preferred just doesn't track for me because, again, she isn't drinking from him and nothing is going to convince me that he didn't really, really want that. And the way Elena reacted -- SO differently -- at the lake house. Doesn't make sense for me. Doesn't track. Illusion of free will doesn't work unless it plays out that way all the time. It doesn't; it hasn't. It's either there or it isn't, not a pick or choose.

ETA: I've been thinking more and more about what happened at the lake house and it really does fly in the face of Julie's "illusion of free will" explanation. There was ABSOLUTELY no free will (illusory or otherwise) on display in "O Come, All Ye Faithful" when Damon invoked the sire bond to send her away. Elena knew flat-out that she did NOT want to go, everything in her body wouldn't let her fight it. Therefore nothing free will related there. It just can't be real; it doesn't track.

Edited at 2013-02-14 06:14 am (UTC)
Arabian: Doylearabian on February 9th, 2013 10:55 pm (UTC)
Yes, yes, Caroline and Tyler were so, so, SOOOO stupid -- in character, mind you, but still INCREDIBLY stupid. Oh, they were in the Gilbert house to "check on" Klaus, and yeah, to taunt Klaus because again... stupid!

I don't think we were supposed to be moved by Klaus feeding Caroline as we were in the past because when that happened it was about Klaus/Caroline. What happened in this episode was ALL ABOUT KLAUS. It was about Klaus striking out, showing that even when it comes to Caroline, he fully believes (believed) that she didn't have that big a sway over him... and then he realized that actually, no, she does. He *does* have that depth of softer, human feelings still in him and it's real and there.

As for Caroline manipulating him... I actually don't think that was the case. I think it was a small part of it and what she would have liked to believe it everything she said was manipulation. However, I do think all she said was true. She does believe he's in love with her, she does wish that she didn't want to forget the awful things he's done (we know that from her conversation with Stefan in "O Come, All Ye Faithful"). So even if she would have liked for all of that to have been not real, I do think what she said to him was true.

Yup, Stefan, Stefan and Rebekah, and Rebekah and Elena were all AWESOME last night. :D Agreed with all you said. :)

all of these emotions and feelings coming from Elena just seems like a waterfall that you do have to wonder if it's all going to be taken away once the bond is broken

I don't agree with this at all actually. Elena was falling and falling HARD for Damon over the course of three seasons, the last season REALLY kicking it into high gear. And, again, it wasn't Elena becoming a vampire (thus when the sire bond would have been created) that broke that wall of denial she'd built about her feelings for Damon. It was was what happened in "We All Go A Little Mad Sometimes." That was her breakthrough, that is what led the floodgates of her feelings for Damon to come rushing through.

The sire bond, the sire bond, the sire bond? Lordy, I have no idea at this point. The only thing I know is that it's going to take a LOT of explaining to make it make sense if it is real because it really, really does NOT make sense.
prettygirl5130: pic#119743568prettygirl5130 on February 10th, 2013 04:30 am (UTC)
As for Caroline manipulating him... I actually don't think that was the case. I think it was a small part of it and what she would have liked to believe it everything she said was manipulation. However, I do think all she said was true. She does believe he's in love with her, she does wish that she didn't want to forget the awful things he's done (we know that from her conversation with Stefan in "O Come, All Ye Faithful"). So even if she would have liked for all of that to have been not real, I do think what she said to him was true.


The only reason I thought Caroline was manipulating Klaus was because she has blatantly pretty much said that no matter how much Damon may love Elena and will do anything for her, Caroline still believes that Damon has no humanity in him. Since she believes that, then how can she see good in Klaus when Klaus has done plenty of horrible things to Caroline and her firends? I do think the writers intentionally created the Caroline/Klaus relationship to provoke Caroline to act out once DE got together, but I don't think this was one of those times where Caroline was acting out by being shown as a hyprocrit like in 4.7. Since the writers added in Tyler's plan, then I do think they wanted us to know that Caroline was manipulating Klaus. and lying to him to get him to save her. Maybe in the near future Caroline will take back everything she said and will reveal how much she manipulated him...that will for sure piss off Klaus.

I don't agree with this at all actually. Elena was falling and falling HARD for Damon over the course of three seasons, the last season REALLY kicking it into high gear. And, again, it wasn't Elena becoming a vampire (thus when the sire bond would have been created) that broke that wall of denial she'd built about her feelings for Damon. It was was what happened in "We All Go A Little Mad Sometimes." That was her breakthrough, that is what led the floodgates of her feelings for Damon to come rushing through.

I agree that Elena has been falling in love with Damon slowly but surely, but I don't think she knew it during that time at all until 4.10 when she was compelled. But, there are other ways to intepret season 3 and the finale. I think the writers wrote it with that purpose and since there are other intepretations, they have left the option of saying that yes Elena loves Damon but that love wasn't strong enough to make her choose him and that if she never turned and was never bonded to Damon she may have stayed with Stefan for a long time. Since there are so many intepretations, it's very possible that the writers will use another intepretation. I don't think they will, but the way they've set it all up to make it a possiblity.
Arabian: Damon & Elena28arabian on February 10th, 2013 06:11 am (UTC)
she has blatantly pretty much said that no matter how much Damon may love Elena and will do anything for her, Caroline still believes that Damon has no humanity in him

Because as much as I love Caroline, she's pretty self-centered. Damon is a complete asshole to her. So she sees no good in him. Sure, we know he has it, Elena, Ric, Liz, heck, even Jeremy has seen that side of him. Caroline hasn't. Even when he's saved her, he's been a jerk. All she knows from Damon is that he's a complete, unrepentant asshole. On the other hand, Klaus treats her like a goddess. He gives her presents, compliments, saves her life while looking at her with limpid eyes of love. He dances with her and gazes intensely, adoringly at her. It's a LOT easier for her to see the possibility of humanity in him than it is Damon because of her very, very different experiences with both of them.

As for Elena and her love for Damon -- I don't understand your response. You said that it was a sudden onslaught of her feelings for him, I said that it's been happening (and this is something that Julie, Kevin, Nina, writers, etc. have said on countless occasions) throughout the run of the show with the last season really bringing it home. That has nothing to do with her finally getting it in 4.10 or her choice in 3.22. So, yeah, I'm confused by your response here, LOL!
prettygirl5130: pic#119743568prettygirl5130 on February 10th, 2013 06:20 pm (UTC)
I think what i'm trying to say is that Elena wasn't really aware of her feelings for Damon other than him consuming her in season 3. You can see she had a bit of an aha moment in 4.10 after she said she was in love with Damon while being compelled. How could Elena go from being all about Stefan, even in the premiere, to being all about Damon in like four episodes flat? I do think vampirism has a hand in this entire thing and that's kind of why she's owning up and defining her feelings now.

As a human, i'm not sure she would ever own up to her feelings for Damon. I don't really think Elena would have ever chosen Damon over Stefan as a human and it's been vampirism pushing her to do so now. I think the writers are writing a lot of this as being a bit ambiguous. I think they want to keep us guessing as to when, where and how Elena felt in season 3 . So we may never get an actual explanation from Elena as to why she chose Stefan and stuck with that choice for a good amount of time. You can say she realized her feelings were much more in 4.6 after she let go of all that guilt or you can say that vampirism changed the way she saw each brother and changed her making her "darker" and more drawn to Damon and once she turns back to human her "darker" side will be lessened and she'll be drawn to Stefan again. I think the writers keeping everything ambiguous will be a way to keep the triangle going by keeping Elena's choices in season 3 and this season left up to intepretation.

And Elena may really feel that back in season 3 she made the right choice. She may really feel that at the time in her life she needed Stefan and no matter what Damon meant to her...it was Stefan al the way. We won't ever know until Elena actually explains it herself and I don't think she ever will. I think we are going to intepret this season and last in any way we want to until the series is over. Maybe if she had never turned, she would have never chosen Damon. We don't know.
Arabian: Damon & Elena27arabian on February 10th, 2013 10:43 pm (UTC)
As a human, i'm not sure she would ever own up to her feelings for Damon. I don't really think Elena would have ever chosen Damon over Stefan as a human and it's been vampirism pushing her to do so now.

I don't agree with this either, so we'll just have to disagree here too, LOL!
(Anonymous) on February 8th, 2013 03:52 pm (UTC)
One other thing about the cure discussion... did anyone else get the impression that Elena might eventually decide to NOT take the cure to prove she loves Damon and wants to be with him? I just got that vibe from that scene when she asked him to do that for her.

I got that vibe too. It really struck me how she was listing reasons for taking the cure like getting rid of Klaus, or Jeremy no longer wanting to kill her. And she also talked more about other people who might want to take the cure, like Stefan or Rebekah. Elena never said that she wanted to take the cure because being a vampire was unbearable for her. Her attitude was so different compared to earlier this season.

By the way, I love reading your thoughts about the show. <3
Arabian: Elena08arabian on February 9th, 2013 11:07 pm (UTC)
Hmm, I love that other people got that vibe as well, makes me hopeful. Because I want Elena to be able to make the choice.

I love reading your thoughts about the show. <3

Thank you. :)
eolivet on February 8th, 2013 05:02 pm (UTC)
I do know that I really, really hope the sirebond stuff is resolved by this batch of episodes because Damon and Elena are stalled and there's not much more we can do with them until it's resolved... and it's not making anyone happy (including viewers)

THANK YOU for saying it, because it continues to bother me, and I just don't see any way it isn't real at this point. It's not like Sun and Moon, where it was discovered independently: it was Klaus saying something to Caroline, who said something to Stefan. Since it's been proved Klaus never wanted the cure in the first place, was going to kill everyone and had no desire to keep Elena alive, human or vampire, I don't see his motivation for making it up anymore. Unless Klaus proposed it, was actually wrong and then Shane mentioned it, with the intent to deceive. I'd be 100% on board with it being fake if Shane was the first person to mention it. But since it was Klaus, I just don't see how it's not real, and I really, REALLY want it gone. :/

I also love Atticus Shane and his portrayer. David Alpay is just awesome. I'm not saying that I think we should keep this character around, when he's time is done, he should be done, but damn, I'm going to enjoy every moment with him until he has to go. He's just so talented, so charismatic. I think the casting department did an OUTSTANDING job with Alpay.

YES, YES, YES!!! I also love the subtle differences between hippie!Shane (longer hair, seemingly "softer" features) and present-day Shane (cleaner cut, more focused, different wardrobe, even).

That being said, I thought the pace of the episode dragged for me. It was really exposition-heavy, emotion-light (which was an interesting contrast to the emotion-heavy, but action-light Klaus/Tyler/Caroline scenes). It's interesting you bring up "Klaus" and "The End of the Affair" (two of my favorite episodes EVER) and "Ordinary People" (which was outstanding), but this didn't move me like those three. IDK if the flashbacks were too close together or the scenes were too same-y, but I found it pretty dark (light-wise, not tone-wise) and confusing.

Morgan continues to really knock it out of the park, showing quiet, vicious dignity while Tyler gloated, taking advantage of Tyler and Caroline's idiocy, silkily taunting Tyler to finally fighting the good that is in him, the feelings that he does feel for Caroline before giving in and saving her life. Klaus and Morgan was awesome. Accola was fabulous. Caroline? Needs some freaking reckoning

That's a really great way to sum up that scene, because I LOVED it -- but in retrospect, it really was just because of the acting. The actors were freaking fabulous (especially Morgan, who has amped up his charisma and presence, IMO, since he found out he was getting a spinoff), but as a "Klaus/Caroline moment" it was...weird. I was SO into it when I was watching, but afterwards, it's like...huh. OK, that happened. I think Klaus/Caroline is a non-starter from a character perspective (though I love the chemistry between Morgan and Accola). But it really is an actor vs. character thing for me.

This felt like a setup ep (not a filler ep) and I'm excited for the payoff. Seriously. ENOUGH OF THE SIRE BOND ALREADY. PLEEEEEASE!!!!! :/
Arabian: Damon & Elena14arabian on February 9th, 2013 11:48 pm (UTC)
PART 1

If the sire bond is real, I have no idea at this point. The only thing I know is that it's going to take a LOT of explaining to make it make sense if it is real because it really, really does NOT make sense. You say that you don't see how it's real, I don't see how it is. It does NOT make sense.

It's not like Sun and Moon, where it was discovered independently

Of course not, because the show doesn't repeat itself. And Klaus DOES want the cure. He wants it found so that he can destroy it. He's been looking for it for centuries to destroy it.

The ONLY problem I have with the sire bond is that it doesn't make sense or track with what we've been told AT ALL in regards to it. But as for the sire bond itself, I don't have a problem with it because it's clear that unless Damon specifically chooses to make Elena do something she doesn't want to do, it's not bad, it's basically just indicative of a deep, soul-connecting love. And Damon loves her, so unless he's being guilted into sending her away from him, he's not going to make her do something she doesn't want to do. Again, though, that doesn't even matter because it doesn't track. Elena argues with him, Elena does what she wants to do and then uses her power over him to get him to do what she wants. Damon does NOT control Elena. Damon does NOT make Elena do what he wants. It's the reverse. Damon does what Elena wants. Damon gives into Elena.

And we've been told EMPHATICALLY that the sire bond does NOT effect or create feelings. It does not make someone love someone. It does not make someone have feelings for someone. It does not make someone have sex with someone. All it does it make it possible for the sire to make the siree do what they want... if they are so inclined to use that power. Damon is NOT inclined.

IF we saw Elena acting with Damon the way that Charlotte did, I would be totally against it. (And, another reason why the "real-ness" of the sire bond is so in question). However, we don't ... AT ALL. In fact, Elena is acting EXACTLY the same way with Damon as she always has except that she's open to her feelings for him now. She still argues with him, she still disagrees with him, she still calls him out when he acts like an ass, she still stops him when he goes too far, she still tells him what she wants, what she feels even if he wants to hear it or not.

Except for Elena's reaction to Damon telling her to do specifically what she didn't want (at the lake house), we have seen Elena act ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENTLY with Damon than we ever have other than no longer being in denial about her feelings for him. And that change about her feelings did NOT come when she became a vampire. It came AFTER the events of "We All Go A Little Mad Sometimes" when Elena had a huge emotional breakthrough.

And that one time that Elena acted differently, she had had several conversations with Shane, a hypnotist with ulterior motives who seemed to know everything about what was going on with Damon and Elena's relationship even though there is no reason he should have known any of it.

I also love the subtle differences between hippie!Shane (longer hair, seemingly "softer" features) and present-day Shane (cleaner cut, more focused, different wardrobe, even).

So agreed. Such subtle, awesome stuffs.

It was really exposition-heavy, emotion-light

Wow! I didn't find it emotion-light AT ALL. The stuff with Damon and Elena hit me hard. The stuff with Klaus was pretty damn heavy -- we saw Klaus striking out, showing that even when it comes to Caroline, he fully believes (believed) that she didn't have that big a sway over him... and then he realized that actually, no, she does. He *does* have that depth of softer, human feelings still in him and it's real and there. That was huge emotionally for him. We saw Stefan and Rebekah make some significant emotional strides with one another, and Elena and Rebekah did as well. There was so much emotion in this episode, I was just riveted.

TBC
Arabian: Damon & Elena12arabian on February 9th, 2013 11:48 pm (UTC)
PART 2

in retrospect, it really was just because of the acting

But I don't think it was just the acting, I think it was Klaus and the writing too. This was a big moment for Klaus, and for Caroline too, in a way, because while she may have wanted to believe that all she said was a manipulation for him to save her, everything she said was the genuinely what she believed.

I thought the episode was set-up, but done in a very character-driven way. As for the sire bond stuff, this episode showed me exactly why we got that -- as a way to explore the Damon issues. Not only about his insecurities, but that Elena does grasp some of those insecurities -- that he doesn't believe he deserves love -- but also that she's still learning, and this whole sire bond thing is opening that discussion. (That it's not just about what Damon believes he doesn't deserve, but what Stefan does.) It's also about showing that as much as Damon knows and loves Elena, he doesn't fully know her, and he doesn't fully trust her.

I didn't comment on his human comment originally (not sure why not), but I did edit this in:. I do think he's lying about that and I think it's because as much as he loves Elena, and he does trust her overall, I don't believe that he trusts her with his heart. And that makes perfect sense. Since he can't believe that he deserves love (and that Stefan does) and since she's spent almost every moment he knows her 'always, Stefan' pre-vampire days, he just can't buy that it's happening.

As for not fully knowing Elena, well, that was clear too. Damon was wrong when he said that about 'unicorns and rainbows' being what Elena was suggesting about the cure changing things. That is NOT what she was saying. All she is saying is that she loves Damon and the cure will not change THAT and it's not the cure that will make things fixed for them, but Damon didn't or won't get that right now.

Keeping in line with how well the show uses plots and twists to create character-driven story, we are getting that here as well. They are using the sire bond to open discussion up about Damon's insecurities and Elena's growing understanding of how deep those insecurities are. It's heart-breaking, but great storytelling as well and I'm excited for where this is going. (Because I do think the end result will be great for D/E and Damon.)
jamdourado: pic#119645665jamdourado on February 8th, 2013 05:05 pm (UTC)
I really loved Elena and Rebekah on this episode, they are so alike and Elena gets she was hurt and felt betrayed. Then Rebekah saves her and Elena is grateful and at the end they are putting their differences behind. I can see an awesome friendship here. give me this show!!!!!

Bonnie touching Jeremy's body was the best part of this episode. And he doesn't mind this ;)

Elena and Damon actually discussing their future!!! I like it. And to keep tradition everything went downhill, I hope Elena looks for Damon next episode, I need my babies disagreeing but together.

I share your dislike for Tyler, I don't know what he is still doing on the show, like what is his plot??





Arabian: Damon & Elena20arabian on February 9th, 2013 11:51 pm (UTC)
I really loved Elena and Rebekah on this episode, they are so alike and Elena gets she was hurt and felt betrayed. Then Rebekah saves her and Elena is grateful and at the end they are putting their differences behind. I can see an awesome friendship here. give me this show!!!!!

This, this, this! All the 'this'es' in the universe to THIS!

I love how the sire bond is now opening up this type of discussion between them. Good stuff.

*sigh* Tyler. Damnit.
wiccabuffy: TVD - Damon says its ok to be a psychowiccabuffy on February 8th, 2013 05:38 pm (UTC)
I'm down with Stebekah hardcore now, but I think she's going to die. Which will piss me off because I am loving her character. She's the one who always gets crewed over, and I think it's just going to happen again, leading to the spin-off series or something. I don't know.

I'm also down with Klaroline, because of JoMo's acting, it takes Caroline away from Tyler, and she finally acknowledged the bad things he has done to their droup. (Aside - LOVE that Rebekah did the same thing, proving that our Scoobies aren't so pure anymore!).

Why did our vampires need to wear hats and scarves to keep warm? They're vampires.... just wondering.

I'm not sold on Damon's speech about not wanting to take the cure because he thinks being human is horrible now. After he had his huge epiphany about being human, "missing it more than anything in the world" as his deepest secret, this was the one scene that didn't make sense to me.
Arabian: Damon07arabian on February 9th, 2013 11:17 pm (UTC)
At this point, until Stefan/Caroline and Matt/Rebekah don't pan out or work beautifully in execution beyond theory, those two are still my OTPs for Stefan and Rebekah.... HOWEVER, that does not mean that I'm not enjoying SO HARD every moment with Stefan and Rebekah right now. Because I totally, totally am so very much.

Why did our vampires need to wear hats and scarves to keep warm? They're vampires.... just wondering.

This I'm letting go because of real-people considerations. I want our pretty actors to not get sick and be even more miserable than they would be because it was pretty flipping cold in Georgia when they were filming outside.

this was the one scene that didn't make sense to me

I completely forgot to talk about this scene in my write-up, I have no idea why (and have since edited thoughts in), but it actually did make sense to me. Unless I'm totally wrong about what I took from it, LOL! The reason it made sense to me is because I don't think we were supposed to be sold on Damon's change of heart. I think he's lying and I think it's because as much as he loves Elena, and he does trust her overall, I don't believe that he trusts her with his heart. And that makes perfect sense. Since he can't believe that he deserves love (and that Stefan does) and since she's spent almost every moment he knows her 'always, Stefan' pre-vampire days, he just can't buy that it's happening. So, yeah, he doesn't trust her with his heart and thus isn't being honest about where he stands on that with her. He's not opening himself up to that most probable (in his eyes) heartbreak.

hotarujazz: hands and dance 4x07hotarujazz on February 8th, 2013 07:56 pm (UTC)
Don't have much to say on your post because I agree with everything pretty much. <3

I just have a comment on the Damon not wanting to be human/missing being human issue. I think those are two different things. I think, in 2x12, Damon meant that he misses who he was when he was human because he had hope and optimism towards love and life in general. But he doesn't want to be human now because he can't be that person again, he saw and did too much and that shaped him in who he is now. Right now it isn't practical or beneficial to him to become human and it's not practical and beneficial to Elena either. Elena has very naive outlook and thinks that cure will be magical fix it all for all her problems and it's just not realistic and Damon realizes that. Of course that Damon's behavior is also the result of his insecurities and issues but this part is what trips people the most, IMO.
Arabian: Damon & Elena11arabian on February 9th, 2013 11:05 pm (UTC)
I see what you're saying, but I frankly just think that he was lying to Elena. As much as he loves Elena, and he does trust her overall, I don't believe that he trusts her with his heart. And that makes perfect sense. Since he can't believe that he deserves love (and that Stefan does) and since she's spent almost every moment he knows her 'always, Stefan' pre-vampire days, he just can't buy that it's happening. So, yeah, he doesn't trust her with his heart. Sad.

Right now it isn't practical or beneficial to him to become human and it's not practical and beneficial to Elena either.

Because of Klaus, I can see this -- BUT, on the other hand, choosing to not be human (if that's what either wants) should NOT be predicated on fear, so I can't agree with this.

Elena has very naive outlook and thinks that cure will be magical fix it all for all her problems and it's just not realistic and Damon realizes that.

No, she doesn't. She explicitly made that clear to Damon. Damon was wrong when he said that about 'unicorns and rainbows' being what Elena was suggesting about the cure changing things. That is NOT what she was saying. All she is saying is that she loves Damon and the cure will not change THAT and it's not the cure that will make things fixed for them, it is their love for one another that will get them through stuff and I would never want Elena to lose that belief in not only love, but in them.

With that said, don't get me wrong, I love how they are using the sire bond now to open discussion to Damon's insecurities and Elena's growing understanding of how deep those insecurities are. It's heart-breaking, but great storytelling as well and I'm excited for where this is going. (Because I do think the end result will be great for D/E and Damon.)
Cassandra Elise: david chincassandra_elise on February 8th, 2013 10:09 pm (UTC)
So there are some theories running around tumbler about Damon and Shane, and I wanted to get your thoughts on it. Some people believe that while Damon was torturing Shane, the evil professor hypnotized him to not want Elena or himself to get the cure. Their proof is that Damon was all gung ho about Elena wanting to be human, even if it meant he lost her, up until this episode, and because Damon has admitted in the past to missing being human but now suddenly finds the prospect miserable. So they believe Shane brainwashed Damon to order Elena to not take the cure. Remember he said he didn't WANT Elena to become human again, and since she is sired to Damon, Elena should technically no longer want it either. This would also add credibility to the theory that Shane hypnotized Elena to act like she was sired, because Shane's purposefully getting Damon to make orders to Elena.

I don't know what I think. So what are your thoughts, oh wise prognosticator? :)
Arabian: Dr Who (10) - Kissarabian on February 9th, 2013 10:43 pm (UTC)
Well, we did have Shane mention it a few times in the episode, so it's certainly possible. My take on Damon's different response from 2.12 and even 4.05 is (a) that he was lying because as much as he loves and trusts Elena, he doesn't trust her with his heart because he doesn't believe that she truly could love him, and (b) as much as he wants it to be real, he also doesn't want to irrevocably know that it isn't real. If it turns out to be Shane-directed, though, I don't think it's crazy spec, it does track.

The sire bond, the sire bond, the sire bond? Lordy, I have no idea at this point. The only thing I know is that it's going to take a LOT of explaining to make it make sense if it is real because it really, really does NOT make sense.
(Anonymous) on February 9th, 2013 10:59 am (UTC)
ETA: My bad... I forgot to discuss one other important thing: Damon saying that he missed being a human once, but now he can't imagine anything more miserable. I do think he's lying about that and I think it's because as much as he loves Elena, and he does trust her overall, I don't believe that he trusts her with his heart. And that makes perfect sense. Since he can't believe that he deserves love (and that Stefan does) and since she's spent almost every moment he knows her 'always, Stefan' pre-vampire days, he just can't buy that it's happening. So, yeah, he doesn't trust her with his heart. Sad. :(

THIS SO MUCH! Sorry. I get emotional. It's all a part of him pushing her away because being loved *scares* him. It breaks my heart.
Arabian: Damon & Elena05arabian on February 9th, 2013 10:25 pm (UTC)
Nope, I'm with you. It looks like we're gonna start getting into the deep, deep issues that Damon has. It's heart-breaking, but great storytelling as well and I'm excited for where this is going. (Because I do think the end result will be great for D/E and Damon.)
flyingfish: elena tvdflyingfish1 on February 10th, 2013 04:43 am (UTC)
Rebekah might end up on her brothers' spin-off, too. But I'm with you in hoping she sticks around and becomes part of the group. She could add such an interesting dynamic to it, especially her friendship with Elena. Those two have so much in common. I was sad when the show dropped their burgeoning friendship last season so I'm really hoping they'll start to bring it back. I'm also in a weird shipping headspace with her--I always really liked her with Matt but I never quite shipped them, only because I so badly want Matt to get a normal human life and, well, vampire girlfriends don't fit with that even if I'd like them to =P But wow, if she becomes human again... I can see myself going totally head-over-heels for that pairing. I'm trying not to get my hopes up but OMG it's not really working.* She and Stefan have been adorable these last few eps, though, I'm so glad the show finally started to deal with their history together. I loved the image of the virtually indestructible, ancient vampire getting jumpy and crushing her boyfriend friend whatever they are. So very cute.

*Actually, my current (probably wrong, lol, as I always am) theory re: the cure is that it'll be able to reverse the spell that grants immortality--so that any person who was given immortality with a spell, like Silas and the Originals, will be able to be cured, while anyone who was turned in the regular way (drinking vampire blood) won't be. Soooo, a human Rebekah might be a possibility?? If I'm right, of course.

David Alpay is fantastic.

I think ever since she turned, and probably for the first time, Elena's been considering the possibility of "always," what it really means to her and what she wants to do with it. We had her comment in 4x01 that she could be with Stefan "forever, if I want"... and now that she's with Damon she's thinking about spending that time with him. She thinks she'll be taking the cure, so it's a human version of forever--growing old together, spending their lives together--but it's still so, so significant that she's thinking like that about him when she never wanted it with Stefan or Matt. OMG <3

Damon saying that he missed being a human once, but now he can't imagine anything more miserable. I do think he's lying about that

I have a very different take on that, actually. I do think he was exaggerating the awfulness of the idea out of fear. There was a certain amount of lashing out. But I don't think he wants to be human, not really, not anymore. In 2x12 he was hitting rock bottom--having a massive existential crisis. He wanted to be the person he thought Elena wanted him to be, he wanted to be someone she liked, but he was convinced that he couldn't be that person and it was destroying him. He blamed the fact that he wasn't human on his supposed inability to be a good person or someone Elena could respect... hence one of his big deathbed confessions basically being, "If you'd met the human version of me you'd have actually liked the person I was, too bad that didn't happen." To which Elena responded that she liked him just the way he was, vampirism included. That was huge. And since then, I think, Damon's become a lot more comfortable with who he is and what he is ("last time I checked, I was still a vampire!"). He's certainly not having any more existential crises in the road. He can make vampirism fun and he's fine with it. I agree that right now he doesn't trust Elena's feelings for him and, given that he changed species for love once already and it ended disastrously, I like that he's being more cautious and self-preserving this time around. It's not that he doesn't want to be with her, it's just that he's not completely altering his entire existence to do it this time around. On the whole that's good, I feel.

When Stefan said that he wanted the cure "for me," I was so proud of him. Good answer, Stefan! Yay honesty! I do think he's hoping to just ditch his, uh, ripper-ism without prpoerly dealing with it... but hey, baby steps!

Also? Forest fire! Lol, all I could think during that scene was, I SURE HOPE YOU'RE CONTAINING THAT, OMG!!! Not the effect they were going for, I suspect, hee.
Arabian: Elena05arabian on February 10th, 2013 06:18 am (UTC)
Rebekah might end up on her brothers' spin-off, too.

Everything I've read indicates that she won't be in the spin-off, which is why I think she's either gonna die or turn human, thus sticking around in MF. I see what you mean about her and Matt versus her and Stefan, but I still have hope for M/R and S/C, I can't help it. They're my primary Stefan and Rebekah ships.

I'm not quite sure I see your theory playing out, sorry, but with this show, you never know. I have a crazy one, though, that I don't think will happen either! That when one gets the cure all that happened when they were a vampire ceases to exist in their memory, thus Damon and/or Stefan sees Elena, they think it's Katherine and they're in 1864. Rebekah's in the 10th century, Caroline is still dating Matt, etc. It would be awesome, but probably WAY too much story to deal with, LOL!

it's still so, so significant that she's thinking like that about him when she never wanted it with Stefan or Matt. OMG <3

YUP! YUP! YUP! It really struck me that as much talk as there has been about Stefan and Elena growing old together, Elena's never gone there. Her first time ever saying that, it's about her and DAMON. Yup.

I do think he was exaggerating the awfulness of the idea out of fear.

I don't think it was out of fear, I think he just can't let himself be honest with his heart so completely with her because he expects her to run back to Stefan when she becomes human. With that said, I see your point too and I'm thinking that it's kind of a combination of the two -- he doesn't trust his heart with her, and he realizes that even being a vampire doesn't mean he has no shot at happiness.

I do think he's hoping to just ditch his, uh, ripper-ism without prpoerly dealing with it... but hey, baby steps!

Oh, totally, but yeah... baby steps!
archangel_blood: D/E like you wanna be lovedarchangel_blood on February 10th, 2013 02:48 pm (UTC)
Part 1

This was a weird episode for me. That’s not to say I didn’t like it, but something felt kinda off when I first watched it? Idk. It was probably the unusual setting; I kept trying to put my finger on it upon rewatch, and couldn’t.

Let me get the non D/E & Elena related stuff out of the way first, because I’m afraid I’m about to get a bit rambly and ranty later on.

Anyway, yeah, I continue to love S/R together. He seemed genuine with her, and unlike his behavior with Elena, I thought he actually tries really hard to be honest with Rebekah? That's nice to see.

Tyler is an absolute idiot and I have no idea what his purpose is anymore. And yes, I agree with you on Caroline.

Considering how I do ship her with Klaus, it’s strange that their scenes together left me kinda indifferent? Maybe it’s because I need to be in love with both characters to truly enjoy them together, and the sad truth is that I’m just not loving Caroline right now. JM was really, really good, though. He’s a joy to watch.

I get why she feels this way, fair or not, Damon treats her like shit and Klaus treats her like she's a goddess.

Yeah well, Klaus is responsible for both times she nearly died of werewolf bite poisoning. Just because she knows why he did it, and he’s hurt and he paints nice snowflakes, doesn’t make him any less of a bastard who’s almost killed her twice now. So what’s the difference between him and Damon, really? That Klaus hasn’t compelled her? That he gives her nice shiny things? That we have no indication of Klaus being sexually depraved, which according to Caroline is worse than murder, and obviously trumps the attempts upon your life? Or is it the Hugh Grant syndrome, where his accent makes every ridiculous thing he says better?

I don’t know. Like I said, I do like them together, but right now I don’t love Caroline enough to ship her with anyone.

Okay, moving on to Damon and Elena.

And it struck me that as much as we've heard discussion of Stefan and Elena growing old together from so many other characters, the first time we hear Elena talking about growing old with someone, she's thinking of Damon.

Yes, this. It’s actually the first time she’s talked about what she wants for her future in no uncertain terms, about wanting to be with someone for the rest of her life. With Stefan, she went from “I don’t know what I want”, to “I can't think about always” and finally “We can be together forever, if I want.” With Damon, she just went there, head on: “We can be together, grow old together.” And this is huge.

I do blame his response on his own insecurities, yes, and also the fact the people wouldn’t FUCKING SHUT UP about S/E getting back together one she’s human again. Of course Damon with his completely lacking sense of self-worth and his damaged little heart would buy into this. Ugh.

Everyone keeps stating this nonsense as a fact: once Elena is human again, she’ll run straight into Stefan’s arms. I guess this is just Elena and her factory settings: as a human she belongs with one Salvatore, while as a vampire she can’t help but love the other one. Makes perfect sense. I’m pretty sure this is all going somewhere though, because the show is laying it on very thick.
Arabian: Damon06arabian on February 10th, 2013 11:17 pm (UTC)
Maybe it's just because it was so different? It really had a different feel, but I think that was deliberate, and well, I liked it.

Yup, S/R are adorbs! So very much. And he *can* be honest with her because she knows who he really is, he hadn't only presented his "best" self to her.

I don't think the K/C scenes were supposed to be ship-worthy? We've seen it all before, so it couldn't be expected to illicit that kind of response. I really think it was about Klaus and it was a revelation for him that he COULDN'T let her die when clearly he totally thought that he could. I think this may have been a turning point him, much like Damon killing Jeremy in 2.01 was.

Just because she knows why he did it, and he’s hurt and he paints nice snowflakes, doesn’t make him any less of a bastard who’s almost killed her twice now. So what’s the difference between him and Damon, really? That Klaus hasn’t compelled her? That he gives her nice shiny things?

Yup. Because as much as I love Caroline, she's pretty self-centered. Damon is a complete asshole to her. So she sees no good in him. Sure, we know he has it, Elena, Ric, Liz, heck, even Jeremy has seen that side of him. Caroline hasn't. Even when he's saved her, he's been a jerk. All she knows from Damon is that he's a complete, unrepentant asshole. On the other hand, Klaus treats her like a goddess. He gives her presents, compliments, saves her life while looking at her with limpid eyes of love. He dances with her and gazes intensely, adoringly at her. It's a LOT easier for her to see the possibility of humanity in him than it is Damon because of her very, very different experiences with both of them.

Damon's done horrible things to Elena and those she loves, but she's forgiven him for stuff because he's shown her the good in him. And Caroline is ABSOLUTELY the kind of girl who thinks that if she can CHANGE someone because of their love for her, it validates her (which is totally bogus, she should validate herself, but this is Caroline and it is in character).

It’s actually the first time she’s talked about what she wants for her future in no uncertain terms, about wanting to be with someone for the rest of her life. With Stefan, she went from “I don’t know what I want”, to “I can't think about always” and finally “We can be together forever, if I want.” With Damon, she just went there, head on: “We can be together, grow old together.” And this is huge.

I do blame his response on his own insecurities, yes, and also the fact the people wouldn’t FUCKING SHUT UP about S/E getting back together one she’s human again. Of course Damon with his completely lacking sense of self-worth and his damaged little heart would buy into this. Ugh.

Everyone keeps stating this nonsense as a fact: once Elena is human again, she’ll run straight into Stefan’s arms. I guess this is just Elena and her factory settings: as a human she belongs with one Salvatore, while as a vampire she can’t help but love the other one. Makes perfect sense. I’m pretty sure this is all going somewhere though, because the show is laying it on very thick.


Yup, this, this, this all of this.

Edited at 2013-02-11 04:36 am (UTC)
archangel_blood: Elena BAMFarchangel_blood on February 10th, 2013 02:50 pm (UTC)
Part 2

One other thing about the cure discussion... did anyone else get the impression that Elena might eventually decide to NOT take the cure to prove she loves Damon and wants to be with him?

I got that vibe too, and now I’m a bit worried that if we do see Elena deciding to not take the cure, (which is something I’ve been hoping for since we first heard of it) it will be blamed on the sire bond and Damon saying he didn’t want her to take it.

Look, I’ve said this before, I do not consider the SB this evil, destructive force so many fans make it out to be. Granted, I don’t love it, for entirely non-D/E related reasons, but I can also understand the use and the benefits of this storyline in the long run. However, useful or not, the SB as it is right now negates Elena’s character development this season IMO. One could argue (and many, many people do), that if she does not have her free will & therefore does not have full control over her actions, nothing she has done or said this season is actually on her; it was not really Elena growing up, maturing, coming to terms with herself, with her past, with her feelings. It was the sire bond. Personally, I do not believe this, and I also still don’t think the SB is an actual thing, but that’s me.

Fact is, the vast majority of TVD viewers take the show at face value, and unless it spells it out for them, it didn’t happen (those big neon signs we talked about? Yeah.) My mind is still boggled by the number of D/E fans (!) who needed the show to tell them in 4x08 that Elena did have human feeling for Damon. Have you NOT been watching the previous 3 seasons, guys? And of course, the other fan bases are having the time of their lives right now, which is just hilarious and infuriating at the same time. I’ve stopped visiting forums, Tumblr, etc. and I’m trying to limit my TVD related interaction to LJ and specifically friends’ journals because some of the things that people would say are simply insane. We can analyze, reason and explain until our tongues hurt and our fingers are sore from typing, and it wouldn’t matter. Unless it has been flat out stated on the show that there was never any sire bond, or that the sire bond has been broken/Elena turns human again, but continues to act and feel the same, the doubt that she wasn’t really responsible for anything that happened in S4, or she didn’t have any choice, will remain.

I don’t see the sire bond as a stain on D/E at all, but on Elena. She needs to be given credit for the amazing, strong woman she is becoming, and not pity that none of this is her fault. I have to admit though, if this storyline is resolved successfully (and soon!), the SB will have served to explore Elena’s character development from a very interesting angle. Keeping my fingers crossed.

A decent episode, all in all. I think I’ll go watch it again now, because if I don’t figure out what’s bugging me, it will drive me crazy. lol
Arabian: Elena07arabian on February 10th, 2013 11:20 pm (UTC)
I’m a bit worried that if we do see Elena deciding to not take the cure

Well, to be fair, my idea of her not deciding to take it comes with two caveats -- the desire to kill vampires from Jeremy is somehow broken, and they learn the sire bond isn't real. I can't see her NOT going for the cure otherwise.

We agree on the sire bond and what other people think about it, so I'll just say that I find it very hard to believe that we won't get to that point where it's made clear, explicitly spelled out about Elena's feelings. Forget viewers, honestly, DAMON needs it to believe it. Stefan does as well. And they HAVE spelled that out. As you said above: I’m pretty sure this is all going somewhere though, because the show is laying it on very thick.

So, yup, it's gotta be going somewhere.
(Anonymous) on February 11th, 2013 11:42 am (UTC)
arabian I love reading your thoughts on the episode. Very insightful.



Arabian: Damon04arabian on February 11th, 2013 12:17 pm (UTC)
Thank you very much. :)
(Anonymous) on February 11th, 2013 05:35 pm (UTC)
Loved your recap, as always!

I just can't help but feeling that, when Elena decides not to take the cure - I'm very hopeful that will happen - that choice will be blamed on the sire bond. Man... sometimes I just can't with this fandom. Damon takes advantage of the sirebond, he's a selfish bastard, a pussy, Delena is gross etc. etc.
I almost don't want to go on Youtube anymore, due to all the hateful comments. They make me doubt about how a view the show, whether I'm watching it the right way. Your recaps always make me feel hopeful about DE, and the show in general, though. Keep up the good work!

Oh, and about you saying Damon lied to Elena about being human with her. Did you notice how similar his words were to what Shane said to him minutes earlier? It was really weird. That whole island is weird, and Shane's abbilities as well.
Arabian: Damon & Elena09arabian on February 12th, 2013 02:36 am (UTC)
Thanks. :)

I just can't help but feeling that, when Elena decides not to take the cure that choice will be blamed on the sire bond

My idea of her not deciding to take it comes with two caveats -- the desire to kill vampires from Jeremy is somehow broken, and they learn the sire bond isn't real. I can't see her NOT going for the cure otherwise.

sometimes I just can't with this fandom

I gave up on the fandom honestly during the summer. The non-stop negativity and inability to get that they are telling the journey of a story and that every journey has steps just made me walk away. I don't read TVD thoughts anywhere except in responses to my thread and those on my flist who genuinely love the show and are looking at the big picture.

I know there's a meaning between Damon and Stefan's words based on Elena's reaction, but I admit I still don't quite get it. I do agree, the island is definitely weird. Spooky.