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20 December 2012 @ 05:19 am
Sire bond? Nah. It's love, baby, love!  
As promised, here is my post on why I do not believe that Elena is sire bonded to Damon. To the surprise of absolutely no one, this is long. You have been warned. :)

The sire bond. Is it real or not? That is the question facing viewers. Originally, I didn't question its existence, and it didn't bother me because I figured that it was a nifty way to give us some form of Damon and Elena with two and 3/4s of a season left to go before they start to get some full measure of togetherness. Plus, I thought that the creation of the sire bond was entirely dependent upon true love between the two parties so, yay! for Damon and Elena.

However, after episode 08 ("We'll Always Have Bourbon Street") and seeing how literally and happily Charlotte obeyed Damon, I started to question its validity. Thinking about Stefan and Caroline's "proof," earlier events, incidents and such, not only did a lot of what Elena did or did not do contradict Damon's wishes, even things that she did concede to him on involved exactly that… a concession. Which was entirely unlike Charlotte's attitude. I and others kept recalling and researching moments that were so at odds with what a sire bond is supposed to be that I gave up the idea that Elena is even bonded to him. Then after episode 09 ("O Come, All Ye Faithful"), I believe I hit upon the key that explains it all: A partnership between Klaus and Shane.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but I do think this may explain the basics of the whole non-sire bond business. This post will attempt to lay out in detail why I believe this is the case. However, before I do, I want to note that I'm not trying to disprove the sire bond because I hate it. I don't. I'm perfectly fine with it because (a) I have no doubt that Elena loves Damon, (b) I have no doubt that Damon would not take advantage of Elena, and (c) I'm pretty sure that if it *were* real, Damon or Elena would wind up "cured" by the end of the season, thus breaking the sire bond.

All this is to say that I'm not arguing its existence because emotionally it hurts my Damon/Elena-loving heart. I've been fine with the idea of it from its first inclusion... even when I figured it was real. The reason that I began to believe it wasn't the case is because it simply didn't make sense otherwise. The writers have been planning this for a year (per Julie Plec's admission that the idea of the sire bond came about from season 03's episode 06, "Smells Like Teen Spirit"). I find it highly improbable that something planned a year in advance would be so very sloppy with so many plot holes, question marks and flat-out contradictions and inconsistencies.

Then along came episode 09 where Elena seemingly did respond to Damon's sire command, but so much just did not add up. So I kept thinking about it and trying to make it make sense in my mind. Finally, after much discussion and back and forth with sarcasticcheese and butterfly, I figured it out… or at least I think I have. As I stated above, it's all about a Klaus/Shane connection. Looking at the sequence of events, it all shows a pattern that ties everything together.

To begin with, we know that Klaus wants Elena's humanity restored so that he can continue to create hybrids. He also knows that Stefan wants Elena human again definitively thanks to their discussion in episode 04 ("The Five"). It's also a fairly safe bet that he's aware of the fact that Damon doesn't care if Elena is human or vampire as long as she's not six feet under. So there's Klaus' motivation.

But why would Shane care whether Elena is human or not? I don't think he does. However, I do think he cares about finding the cure – or whatever it actually is – and the more people looking for it that he's "helping," the better chance he has of getting his hands on it. Why does he want the cure? I have no clue. That's a secret the writers can keep to their heart's content until they're ready for the big ‘ooh! aah!' reveal. All I care about at this point is the sire bond and those pesky inconsistencies with regards to Damon and Elena, and Shane wanting the cure ties into that.

So we have both Klaus and Shane wanting the cure found, and pushing the necessity for Elena's return to humanity appears to be the best way to get the gang (including their savviest member – Damon) on board with that search for the cure. But if Damon doesn't care whether Elena is human or not, that's a problem. And if Stefan is ready to let go of Elena because she wants to be with Damon, well, that's a problem. And if Elena is OK with being a vampire because the guy she wants is not making her feel guilty for being a vampire, and pushing to find her humanity very well could lead to her brother losing his humanity, well, she's not gunning to find that cure either and, then, yeah, we've really got a problem, Houston.

Add to that, whatever your deep, dark plan is – because we certainly know that there's some deep, dark plan in play for Shane and Klaus almost certainly – you can't have the above-mentioned savviest member figure it out before you can get all your pieces put in play. So what do two (possibly) immortals do? Well, they manufacture a reason for them to want to find that cure and, at the same time, distract them (especially Damon) from figuring out the bigger picture.

Early on in episode 07 ("My Brother's Keeper"), Damon casually confronted Shane about his connection to Pastor Young and wondered what he had to do with killing twelve people. I get why Damon did this, a surprising confrontation intended to elicit information is certainly a viable plan. However, Damon underestimated just who Shane is and how deep this goes, and that he (I'm thinking) is aligned with Klaus. So what happens later in the episode? Klaus drops a hint to Caroline about Elena being sire-bonded to Damon.

We may not have seen scenes of Klaus finding out about what's going on with the triangle, but considering that it's Klaus, again, it is a very safe bet that he's quite aware of what's going on. After all, we've been told time and time again how Klaus knows all, how he had his spies and his informants, and we know how he observes. So, he would be aware of the situation enough to know that with Damon digging around Shane, a diversion is necessary. And if that diversion dovetails nicely with keeping the search for the cure a high priority, then that's even better.

So Klaus drops the hint about the sire bonding to Caroline. And, again, Klaus knows what's going on, so he would know that with Stefan and Elena on the outs, Stefan would be on the outs with Damon too. Would anyone doubt at all that Klaus has been keeping tabs on Caroline? If he has, he'd be well aware that she and Stefan have been spending lots of time together… so dropping that hint to Caroline likely will insure that Stefan will find out about the sire bond. This, of course, will renew his desire to find the cure for vampirism because it means that Elena didn't really want to end things with him, and she didn't really want Damon over him, instead it happened because of that pesky sire bond. Caroline is Team!Stefan so she'll be along for the ride. Damon, who previously didn't care either way, now would want her humanity restored to break the sire bond so that if Elena is with him, he and everyone else will know that she chose him of her own accord. And Elena will be willing to risk almost anything (minus the hurt to anyone she loves, physical, emotional or otherwise) to prove that she did choose Damon.

So my theory is that Damon accusing Shane of having something to do with Pastor Young's blow-up led Shane to telling Klaus to get him off their trail (whatever it may be) which led to Klaus dropping the sire bond tidbit to Caroline, fairly certain that it would get back to Stefan, and thus Damon and Elena. This, in turn, would get many of the key players sniffing around something *other* than Shane (and presumably Klaus') plan.

Beyond Klaus "intuiting" the sire bond between Damon and Elena, how else has he and/or Shane kept this theory going? That's when we come to the lake house and Shane's presence there. But first, something interesting about Klaus and his intuition. flyingfish1 made a very valid point: When exactly would Klaus have intuited this? Knowing that Stefan and Elena broke up, and that Damon is still in love with Elena, Elena has feelings for Damon can easily be put down to his spies everywhere, but knowing the ins and outs of a potential sire bond? Considering he hasn't seen Elena beyond the few moments when she was in *Stefan's* bed to heal her (from the werewolf venom) and during her hallucination, when exactly would he have seen anything or even have heard anything about this supposed bond being in place? He wouldn't have. (Psst! Because it doesn't exist.)

Back to the lake house. So, Shane is at the lake House with Damon and Elena, and while there, he makes a point to let Elena (and the *audience*) know that he is aware that she and Damon have a sire bond. florencia7 had a very interesting point about this (below in the comments):
    It's also interesting that Elena, albeit humorously, asked Shane if he could hypnotize her out of the sire bond. [...] What's even more interesting is his answer, that he never came across a spell that could break someone from loving too much. I mean... Elena wasn't asking about love, was she? She was asking about the sire bond. That makes Shane's answer seem slightly random. He kind of equals one with the other, as if breaking the sire bond equaled breaking someone from loving – and loving TOO MUCH at that. But that's not it, of course. What he's really revealing here, is that there is no sire bond to begin with [...] because it shows that while Elena is talking about the sire bond here, Shane (who knows there is no sire bond) answers her question referring to the actual truth behind her words, which is that she loves Damon very, very much.
Very interesting indeed. This bit between Shane and Elena was interesting for a number of reasons, the above being one of them. Another one is the simple fact that Shane *knew* this information from Bonnie. Why? When so many things are left unknown – bigger things, I might add – to so many characters, why would Bonnie tell Shane that Damon and Elena have a sire bond? I think this one line from Shane about Bonnie filling him in on the sire bond situation says A LOT.

She is spilling plenty to this practical stranger about the group that he frankly has no business knowing. However, right now, Damon and Elena are so caught up emotionally in this sire bond mess that they aren't picking up on stuff like this. Like the fact that Shane is randomly bringing this up to Elena. Not only should Elena have wondered, I, as an audience member wondered. Why would the writers deem this important enough to showcase? Unless it was to give viewers this little bit of information… which would explain Elena obeying Damon's command later.

That brings us to the fact that Damon also made it a point to reference Shane's hypnotism more than a few times, which was a nice reminder to viewers of that skill set of his. And it wasn't only Damon, Elena specifically asked if Shane could hypnotize a sire bond away. Bringing this together, well, we know that there are chunks of time not seen at the lake house where Shane and Elena could have had plenty o' conversations, where, oh, say Shane could have used some of his hypnotism-whammo to input some suggestion wherein she would obey Damon's direct commands to her. And that explains why Elena, without fighting him, obeyed Damon's command to leave. Having Shane inputting a simple command that would help sell the sire bond such as "obey Damon's direct orders" easily keeps the sire bond theory in play. Recall the exact words that Damon used:
    "You're gonna go home. I'm gonna stay here with Jeremy, I'm gonna help him complete the mark, I'll teach him how to hunt, I'll protect him, and we'll kill vampires without you. I'm setting you free Elena. This is what I want. This is what will make me happy."
Other than saying he and Jeremy will "kill vampires without you," the only direct command to her is "you're gonna go home." Everything else is "I." It's about what he's going to do, how he's going to react, not a direct command to her. Also recall how Elena reacted to Damon's order and how unlike it was when others (Charlotte, the hybrids, including Tyler) have reacted to sire commands. She had this perturbed look on her face during most of her goodbye to him where she just knew that this was not right. Her mind was telling her one thing, but her body was telling her another. Look at her perturbed face.


That is NOT how we've been shown that a sire bond works. Your mind and your body are in concert. It's your emotions that get affected, that feel what they want to feel. Think of Tyler and Caroline when Klaus told him to bite her. Tyler's words said that he wouldn't do it, but his mind and body were in sync. He was shocked when he bit her. His mind didn't think it was wrong what he was doing, it was his emotional reaction that was off. Elena's mind was not in agreement with her body. This sudden shift TO OBEY is never how it's been seen or described as feeling before. It just is. It's a natural response to your sire telling you to do something. Not an unnatural response that your body fights. Above, I mentioned how the only thing that Damon specifically ordered Elena to do was to go home -- and THAT is what her body was telling her to do. Damon also said: "I'm setting you free" which WOULD fall under the confines of the sire bond order/suggestion, but not a hypnotic suggestion to obey a direct command to her. And, whaddya know? An Elena who was supposedly "set free" by Damon kissed him goodbye. Uh huh.

I realize that this seemingly involves lots of assumptions, but I really think it's only two. (1) That Klaus and Shane are working together, and I do believe we've seen enough signs that it's very likely, and (2) that Klaus has been keeping tabs on what is going on with the rest of the gang. I personally don't think that's a big stretch either because we have been told bunches that Klaus has spies and keeps abreast of situations. Once you accept those two assumptions as likely, everything else neatly fits.

ETA: I just read this quote from Joseph Morgan that absolutely fits this theory: "Our heroes are at odds with each other. If they could unite themselves like they did at the end of Season 3, maybe they would have a chance [at killing Klaus], but as long as he can keep manipulating and planting doubt in their minds, they won't be able to come together and defeat him," Morgan says. "Everyone has forgotten that they put Klaus down, but Klaus hasn't forgotten. It's like lining up chess pieces on a board — everyone is playing against each other and everyone's arguing!"

UH HUH! Now, this still works even if Klaus and Shane aren't working together. jamdourado pointed out that Klaus didn't know about Connor, but I figure that either Shane was keeping that from him or even that Shane and Klaus are both working towards the same goal using whatever opportunities are at play. Klaus created the myth of the sire bond theory between Damon and Elena to keep them (and Stefan, Caroline, et al. distracted), and separately, Shane heard about it from Bonnie and realized he could use that as a distraction tool himself.

But would the writers really do this? Would they have every character accept the sire bond as fact? Would Julie Plec in interview after interview talk about the sire bond as fact? Well, to answer the second question… every character took the sun and moon curse as fact despite the massive plot holes. Well, not every character. Damon did question it because he saw those holes. So why wouldn't he be questioning this one then? Because, yeah, normally, Damon would be quick to see through any logical inconsistencies, but when his emotions are heavily clouded, his quick reasoning skills go bye-bye. Especially when it involves his incredibly low self-esteem and his belief that no one would ever, could ever choose him willingly. So he believes it, and uses Stefan's test (and only one) to prove or disprove it.

As for number three, well, Julie Plec flat out said that we would NOT see Katherine in season 01. We saw Katherine in season 01. She also talked about the sun and moon curse as if it was real, until we found out it wasn't. And I've noticed that in every single interview (I've read most of them) about the sire bond there is definitely wiggle room. She talks about the sire bond affecting things in one breath, and then in the next, talks about 'if it's real.' The "it" presumably is Elena's feelings, but we ALREADY know those are real, therefore the "it" is the sire bond. She's being sneaky, but you can read between the lines that she's acknowledging the sire bond might not be real.

So, would the writers really do this? Absolutely. They lie to keep the audience from knowing the ins and outs of the mysteries and surprises of this show – which doesn't bother me in the slightest! Got to keep those moments viable somehow.

OK, so that's the how of it… but where is the so-called proof on the no-sire-bond end? Here we go. To start with – Elena drinking from the blood bag in episode 08 when she couldn't in episode 02 ("Memorial.") A couple of things about that… Firstly, Elena had not fully transitioned yet. As far as we know, the sum total of human blood she had drank up to Matt's offering in the middle of the memorial service (*snerk*) was this –


Yup, that's it. So, essentially, she started on her road to transition, but I don't believe she finished it. I could be wrong, but I liken transition and human blood from the source to a baby and mother's milk (or the equivalent, ie. formula). A specific diet (human blood from the vein to fully develop) is needed in order to get the full vampire effect and be able to "eat" different foods once you've adjusted to your development. It makes sense to me if you think about it. Any other vampire made is going to be made without them knowing and will eventually attack a human and drink from them thus getting the full dose they need. Or, they will be made with the aid of another vampire who will teach them how to properly drink from a human in order to fully transition (which is what Damon wanted to do).

Secondly, right before Elena drank from the blood bag that Damon brought her (yeah, more on that later), she had just thrown up massive amounts of Damon's blood (yeah, more *that* later too). And considering how she reacted to the blood bag, it's a safe bet to say that she did not attempt to drink anymore from that bag. Why do I bring all of this up? Oh, because of this:

  

That first one? Is Caroline drinking from a blood bag for the very first time. Note how her reaction to the blood bag is IDENTICAL IN PRETTY MUCH EVERY WAY, SHAPE AND FORM to Elena's reaction to drinking from a blood bag for the first time. Yeah. Also, note how she then drank from the rest of the bag. (Which Elena didn't (a) attempt, and (b) Caroline hadn't just thrown up massive amounts of vampire blood). Yet, despite that full blood bag she consumed, the next time we saw her when Matt came to visit, she still looked pale, still had circles under her eyes. She still looked essentially like Elena did without drinking any human blood, thus completing her transition.

So still looking like hell warmed over, and despite drinking that full blood bag when the nurse came in and Caroline went all fang-y, she looked at that nurse, smelt her fresh, lovely human blood and proclaimed: "I'm STARVING!" then went for the jugular (literally). Yuppers, it was only until Caroline had drunk from a human directly from the vein that she fully transitioned and was the picture of perfect health. Just like Elena. After drinking from Matt and fully transitioning, Elena hadn't tried blood bags, or animal blood. So for all we know, and based on what we saw with Caroline, Elena would have been able to pick up and drink from a blood bag at any point after she drank from Matt and transitioned.

Now, I went through all of their scenes this season to check out those inconsistencies, and while in some cases, Elena definitely did listen to Damon, there were plenty where she did not. Or if she did, it was with much argument and back and forth between the two – which, again, we didn't see with Charlotte at all, nor do we see to much degree with Klaus and the hybrids.

Let's start with Elena being unable to hold down the animal blood, and well, that is one of the few ones that actually does hold up. While Damon didn't tell her that she wouldn't be able to drink it, he did tell her specifically right before she and Stefan left to hunt that animal blood would make her miserable. So that does track. Per the dialogue:
    Elena: You're still not on board with the animal plan.
    Damon: Nope. I say rip off the proverbial band-aid and let it bleed. You're a vampire, Elena, be a vampire.
    Stefan: Ready to go?
    Damon: Vampires eat people! It's part of the natural food pyramid. Trust me, you're going to be miserable.
Throwing up after drinking animal blood certainly qualifies as making one feel miserable. However, that Elena could only drink from the human vein? Not so much. He told *Stefan* that, but Elena was not in the room, and nothing indicated that she had heard their discussion. In fact, she asked what was going on with the two. Then later when Elena asked Damon for help, he told her he wasn't surprised that animal blood didn't work, and suggested different humans in the Grill, but she refused. So, he took her to the bathroom and offered up another solution. Note the dialogue:
    Elena: What are you doing?
    Damon: (Biting his hand) Giving you what you need. Drink.
    Elena: What?
    Damon: You're a new vampire, Elena. You need warm blood from the vein. Maybe this will do the trick. Or not. But just don't tell Stefan.
So, yes, he says that she needs warm blood from the vein, but he doesn't say HUMAN blood. He also specifies that it's because she is a new vampire, and flat-out says that maybe it will work, maybe not, thus giving her sire bond the option to choose which works. Supposedly the sire bond says you want to please your sire, and Damon was obviously quite, quite pleased by the blood sharing, so if there was a sire bond at play, it would have worked.

Now we come back to that blood bag once more. Damon brought the blood bag to her. At no point prior to her drinking it, did he suggest it might not work. He just brought it for her to drink, handed it over to her and expected her to drink from it and that it would work. When she couldn't keep it down, he was surprised and fumbled around for an explanation.
    Damon: (Handing her the blood bag.) Here.
    Elena: (Taking the bag, drinks, then spits it out.) No, I can't. It tastes like... What's wrong with me?
    Damon: I don't know, maybe it's your doppelganger blood, you're rejecting the transition.
    Elena: I'm dying, aren't I?
    Damon: No, you're not dying. You just need to drink from the vein.
    Elena: No. No, I don't– I can't risk killing anyone, Damon. Maybe I'm better off dead.
    Damon: Don't you think like that. Elena, you'll be fine.
Notice that last part there? That direct command: "Don't you think like that (in reference to her saying she would be better off dead). Elena, you'll be fine." A few episodes later, this is what Elena wrote in her diary: "I feel hopeless, depressed, angry, but most of all, I'm scared. Part of me just wants to end it, but then I think of Jeremy. I'm all that he has left, so I need to find a way through this." What part of that sounds like someone not thinking they're better off dead? That they are fine? Uhm, not a single bit of it. Despite the fact that her supposed sire flat-out told her to NOT think that way. Uh huh.

Also in episode 02, there was the final scene with the gang wanting to light lanterns. Damon may not have been specifically talking to Elena, but he was including her among the group when he said: "What we need to do is find out who this hunter is and what he knows about the death of the Council. We have more important things to be doing right now than this." Still, Elena didn't stop the lantern lighting and do what Damon, her "sire," said that they (including her) *had* to be doing right now.

Moving on to episode 03 ("The Rager"), when Elena was searching in Damon's room, she asked him about Jeremy, he told her not to worry about it, her very next comment to him was: "Damon, don't bring him into this." Yeah, really sounded like she stopped worrying as soon as her "sire" told her to not do so. Not.

Then we come to "The Five" (episode 04) and the infamous blond-she-did-not-eat scene. Lookee at the dialogue.
    Damon: She's young and healthy; she'll heal up like a charm. Just keep your eye on the ball. Okay?
    Elena: It's not a game, Damon.
    Damon: Fine, it's not a game. It's a high stakes dangerous maneuver. Now, just go, just like we practiced. That's all you have to do.

    ~~ Moments later after Elena's tender heart was swayed by the sight of the blonde's niece on her phone ~~

    Elena: Get out of here. Go back to class.
Julie Plec answered questions about this and other inconsistencies by saying that "unlike compulsion there are no hard and fast rules, and it's emotion-based" which, come on, does not fly… uhm, at all. No one is comparing the sire bond to compulsion. Not on the show, and not among fandom. And you can't have your characters decide definitely that Elena is sire bonded to Damon based on their definition of "hard and fast rules" (Caroline and Stefan listing their "evidence"), have everyone go by that, then turn around and say, ‘oh, wait, ignore any and all inconsistencies because there are no hard and fast rules.' Riiiight. Plec is simply doling out enough information, offering up reasonable answers to keep people watching, but not revealing the bigger hand.

This is so incredibly comparable to season 02 that it's not even funny (OK, actually it kinda is, LOL). Viewers went crazy calling out inconsistencies and the lameness of the sun/moon curse and then it all turned out to be fake. I even wrote about that in my write-up for "Klaus" – the episode that revealed the sun and moon curse's fakery.
    And can I just say how much I absolutely adore that the sun and moon curse was all made up. LOLOLOLOLOL! I've read much bitching on the internet about how stupid, and needlessly convoluted the curse is, how many plot-holes are contained within, and that it's just lame. Only to find out that it was made-up by Klaus. Again, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! And clearly this was all planned (and not a reaction to the complaints) because of the werewolf groundwork that's been set up all season long. I don't think I can properly express how much I adore the writing, plotting, intricacy of this show.
The same cries about the issues are here, and she's just trying to steer off the 'fake' cries from people like me because, again, she doesn't want to reveal the bigger plan. Which I totally get and respect. :)

Moving on to episode 05 ("The Killer"), a lot of dialogue – some heavy, some not so much – that shows a non-compliant Elena.
    Elena: I'm not in a shame spiral.
    Damon:Oh, you so are. Newbie vampire remorse? Oof, it's worse than a hangover.
    Elena: I'm not in a shame spiral, Damon.
Obviously, the light stuff, but still a direct message from Damon to Elena, one that she flat-out rejected. And, of course, here's the whole "kill Connor" bit.
    Elena: I'm going in these tunnels.
    Damon: No, you're not. This guy doesn't know that you're a vampire, let's keep it that way.
    Elena: Well, maybe that's it. I can offer to trade myself in exchange for the hostages.
    Damon: No. Best case scenario is now you're a hostage. Worst case scenario: he figures you out, kills you on the spot.
    Elena: Stop treating me like I can't handle myself. Alaric trained me and I've been practicing with Stefan.
So, Elena said she was doing one thing, Damon told her that she was not going to multiple times. Did she wind up not going? Yes, but only after HE agreed with HER original plan. And again, she continued to argue with him over and over again, and, again, he only told her to kill Connor in capitulation to what SHE wanted to do (go and rescue Jeremy). Finally, even as Elena was telling Damon that she killed Connor because he told her to, she was denying something else he directly said to her.
    Damon: Elena, it's complicated.
    Elena: No, it's not complicated, Damon! You want to know why? Because - because he's dead now. You told me to kill him, so I did.
Yeah. Really sketchy bond work there, if you ask me. Or what? Is there only supposed to be a 50/50 success rate? I don't think so.

Then we get to episode 07, and part of Caroline's supposed proof about the sire bond because Damon told Elena to not worry about Damon and then she didn't. Funny how she ignored the first part of the conversation.
    Damon: Relax, I'm sure he's fine.
    Elena: I don't know. I have a bad feeling.
    Damon: If I'm not worried, you shouldn't be worried. Let it go. I'll go look for him.
    Elena: OK.
So, sure, she let him look for Jeremy, but does this look like the expression of someone no longer worrying?


Of course not. She was still worried, she just trusted Damon when it comes to Jeremy because they've spent – at least – the last six months working together to take care of Jeremy. Something that Elena wouldn't have shared with Caroline because of her massive hate-on for Damon, therefore Caroline wouldn't have known that.

Finally, in episode 08, the morning after, while Elena telling Caroline and Bonnie didn't contradict Damon's wish for a secret, selfish day (since that was directly about Stefan not knowing and Elena did ask Caroline to not tell Stefan), she did argue with him and he had to wring the concession out of her. And, again, we didn't see anything like that with Damon and Charlotte, our only vampire-vampire sire bond comparison.

Phew! So while there are things that she definitely did "obey" him about, in almost every instance, she argued with him, she made him fight for it, or she flat-out didn't do what he wanted. OK, then, why the change in Elena's attitude? Because there *was* a change. Stefan may want to label it when she turned, but that wasn't the case. The first four episodes and 3/4s of another this season had Elena very much playing the ‘always-Stefan' card. It was Stefan she told that choosing him was the best decision she'd made. Stefan she sat on a rooftop with promising forever. (Both in episode 01, "Growing Pains.") Stefan she made out with in episodes 02 and 03. Stefan she wanted to be with, learning how to be a vampire with in episode 04. And it was Damon that she was angry with, and who she again repudiated in episode 01. It was Damon she didn't want to be with learning how to be a vampire with in episode 04. And it was Damon that she was pissy with at the start of episode 05, and Stefan whose arms she ran into in the same episode.

So, no, Elena wanting Damon to the point where she was over Stefan didn't happen when she became a vampire, thus the creation of the sire bond which is all about pleasing your sire. Nope, it happened in episode 06, "We All Go A Little Mad Sometimes." So what changed? Simply put, in this episode, Elena came to a HUGE understanding of who she is, where she is, what she's been thinking and what she wants. She truly had an epiphany, not so much about Stefan and Elena or Damon and Elena, but about ELENA. And that is why things have played out as they have. We saw the change in how Elena treated Damon and Stefan after what happened on the bridge.

For me, I saw an Elena who had *finally* forgiven herself for not dying when her parents did in that first Wickery Bridge accident, and for everything that had followed. I liken it to Elena's reaction to Stefan and his vampirism way back in season 01, episode 07 ("Haunted"). Despite the crazy of that, she realized that she was willing to accept it all because she was finally starting to let go of her guilt about her parent's death and take what she wanted regardless of what was "right" or "wrong." At that point, it was Stefan.

And then she found out that she looked like Katherine, and more people died, and that she was a doppelganger and she blamed herself for all of the deaths, chaos and mayhem that followed. She even told Stefan that once she found out, that being with him, his vampirism, had nothing to do with all the evil that had transpired. It was all on her, all her fault because she was the doppelganger, and that guilt that had pressed down upon her parents' death double-triple-quadruple-folded and all of it came raining down on her again.

On the bridge, facing those hallucinations of Connor. Katherine and her mother making her face all of her fears and guilt finally released her from them and she was ready to let go of it. All that the hallucinations – of Connor, Katherine and her mother – said was Elena's point of view. It wasn't their thoughts, it was hers: her fears, her realizations, her coming to terms with her darkest thoughts about herself. She was ready to stop doing what was right or safe and instead she was ready to take a risk, and go after what she wanted. And at this point in time, it is Damon. The Elena who looked at him after the bridge was not the Elena who looked at Damon at the top of that episode, or the episode before that or that or that going all the way back to episode 01 AFTER she became a vampire.

  

This was the look of a girl who was ready for this man. Period. And that look was not present because of some non-existent sire bond. If it was sire-bond related, it would have happened when she turned. Instead it happened after a very emotionally significant, character-turning point for Elena took place.

So, no, it is not a sire bond. It is love. Period.
 
 
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( 110 comments — Sharing is Caring )
bangel_4e: delenakissbangel_4e on December 20th, 2012 01:11 pm (UTC)
Firstly, Elena had not fully transitioned yet. As far as we know, the sum total of human blood she had drank up to Matt's offering in the middle of the memorial service (*snerk*) was this –

You know I pretty much agree with you on all of this...I have a feeling you're right cause otherwise it would just mean the writers are sloppy and inconsistent.
So, I quoted that line cause I don't quite understand what you're saying here...didn't Elena transition in episode 1? In the gif you showed? I'm just a little confused here.
Could you explain it to me?
Cause I thought her drinking from that guy in episode 1 settled it. Or not?
She looked all vamp in her face right after that.
Or did she need to drink from Matt (alive and straight from the actual vein)?
Btw, this post is extremely interesting and well done.


Oh..another thing..I never understood what happened after Damon tried to help Elena bringing her to college and then she refused. Where did she get her blood then?

Edited at 2012-12-20 01:16 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Damon & Elena20arabian on December 20th, 2012 01:23 pm (UTC)
To me, I've always figured (basing it on Caroline actually, and then Elena) that you have to drink fully from a human to fully transition. You can start on the road to it, but you essentially have to have your fill. Like a baby needs certain things to develop fully (that they get from mother's milk or formula), it's the same way with vampires. You need a specific diet (ie, human blood from the vein to fully develop) in order to get the full vampire effect and be able to "eat" different foods once you've adjusted to your development. That's just how I've always seen it. I could be wrong, but it makes sense to me.

I never understood what happened after Damon tried to help Elena bringing her to college and then she refused. Where did she get her blood then?

Considering she said no more 'snatch, eat, erase' to the girls in 4.08 after revealing she could drink from the blood bag, I figured it meant that she had been doing exactly that.

Btw, this post is extremely interesting and well done.

Thank you. It took a LONG time, LOL!
(no subject) - bangel_4e on December 20th, 2012 01:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 20th, 2012 01:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bangel_4e on December 20th, 2012 01:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 23rd, 2012 06:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bangel_4e on December 23rd, 2012 11:35 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 24th, 2012 05:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
eolivet on December 20th, 2012 03:06 pm (UTC)
OK...I'm trying here (I'm your loyal opposition! :)

Here's my problem -- there are just as many inconsistencies in the sire bond not existing as there are in the sire bond existing. As you point out, Damon was skeptical about the sun-and-moon curse from the start. Who's skeptical about this? Elena (maybe)? In order for it to be fake, IMO, SOMEONE has to not buy it at all. Elena, to me, seemed to think that even if she was sire bonded to Damon, she's still in love with him.

I also remember Shane's scene with Bonnie. Time had elapsed (which was pointed out -- I think the windows even got darker). We never saw her hypnotized, but we saw the after effects of it. Elena said nothing about missing time, so the idea that "Shane hypnotized Elena offscreen" just doesn't sit well with me at all. That's "Beaver actually attacked Veronica first" levels of WTFery -- asking us to believe the show over our own lying eyes.

And while I think Klaus and Shane working together could be legitimate -- I actually find it difficult to believe Klaus would...have that much respect for Damon? That he'd specifically create this lie to throw them off Shane's trail? And if that was the case, would Klaus really be relying on Damon and Elena to accept the sire bond on faith? He didn't even do that for the sun-and-moon curse.

Also, Klaus specifically said this year "I trust no one." I mean, he daggered his own sister -- why would he trust this stranger/immoral person, even if they have the same goals? Klaus is the most powerful person on earth. I suppose the search for the cure has kept Shane out of harm's way -- but I mean...when Klaus was trying to protect Connor, all he did was kidnap the guy and send his hybrids (R.I.P.) to guard him. He certainly never stooped so low as to forming an alliance with him.

I also think it's significant that the time we've seen the sire bond invoked in Elena's presence (and have it be "effective") was when Damon said "This is what would make me happy." As many inconsistencies as we've seen, the two times Damon invoked the sire bond, Elena did what he said (and as to the Tyler point, they made a point about saying it's different for werewolves). Yes, we were shown Charlotte -- but I feel like that was to show how destructive the sire bond could be, not disprove that it wasn't happening with Elena.

But as you said, it's possible to believe Elena loves Damon, independent of the sire bond. I feel like that's what the show wants us to believe -- and it's truly the simplest explanation. The problem is until this cloud of the sire bond is lifted (the idea that Elena has limited control over her freewill) it's tainting the D/E story, for me.

I look forward to being proven wrong, however -- and you know me...I always admit when I am. :)
Arabian: Damon & Elena(PR)01arabian on December 20th, 2012 09:21 pm (UTC)
Part 1 --

Here's my problem -- there are just as many inconsistencies in the sire bond not existing as there are in the sire bond existing.

But that makes sense, and I think adds more weight to my case. Of course, there are going to be gotchas and red herrings that make it seem real, otherwise no one would buy it. But the fact that there are so many inconsistencies against it is why when one looks deeper, it really appears to not exist.

As you point out, Damon was skeptical about the sun-and-moon curse from the start. Who's skeptical about this? Elena (maybe)? In order for it to be fake, IMO, SOMEONE has to not buy it at all. Elena, to me, seemed to think that even if she was sire bonded to Damon, she's still in love with him.

Yes, Elena is skeptical, but more importantly, the sun-and-moon curse wasn't a personal thing. It didn't effect them the way this does. This sire bond deals with the very heart of these characters -- and thus their happiness. Damon and Elena specifically. Stefan as the non-recipient of the bond. Caroline due to her feelings for Elena and Stefan. Jeremy, Bonnie, Matt as offshoots who love Elena. The sun-and-moon curse was there, it mattered, but it was abstract and didn't effect who they were as individuals, their heart and their minds, their relationships. This is personal and that's why it's different.

I also remember Shane's scene with Bonnie. Time had elapsed (which was pointed out -- I think the windows even got darker). We never saw her hypnotized

Just because that hypnotism took a long time doesn't mean anything at all. Hypnotism can take short or long periods. We saw Shane hypnotize Jeremy in this episode and it was a matter of minutes.

the idea that "Shane hypnotized Elena offscreen" just doesn't sit well with me at all.

If it was hours, I'd agree, but a few minutes, here or there? That's nothing and easily explained.

And while I think Klaus and Shane working together could be legitimate -- I actually find it difficult to believe Klaus would...have that much respect for Damon?

It's not about respect -- although, I do think that Damon is the closest one that comes to it that Klaus respects, after all, in season 03 he was well aware that Damon was catching up to him and Stefan and he was willing to work with him this season because, yeah, Damon gets shit done. But, yeah, it's not about respect, it's about covering the bases and making sure that no one messes up whatever their plan is. The one thing we know specifically that Klaus thinks about Damon is that he is a loose cannon (and he definitely is in many ways). Damon is unpredictable and Klaus does know that he's smart, those two things combined could unwittingly screw Klaus' plan over.

would Klaus really be relying on Damon and Elena to accept the sire bond on faith? He didn't even do that for the sun-and-moon curse

Again, it's personal. Plus, he's had enough of a spectator-view to see what's been going on with Damon and Elena. We know that from his little comments here and there (going back to his 'come on, tell me, who you gonna pick?' in 3.21 for example). He knows that this would effect Damon in a way that pretty much nothing else would. Hit him at his two weak points (Stefan and Elena) and Klaus can be assured that it will throw him off his game. It's proven history. And by making it Elena that is effected by this all, that gets to most of the motley crew: Damon, Stefan, Caroline, Jeremy, Bonnie, et al. They will all be thrown by this because of their love for Elena.

Also, Klaus specifically said this year "I trust no one."

It has nothing to do with trust. It's about working with someone to get an end result. He doesn't like or trust Damon, yet he worked with him earlier this season. Klaus will take advantage of any opportunity to further aid whatever his cause is. He's invulnerable pretty much, so eh, if he's double-crossed, he'll just destroy that person. They can't destroy him.

TBC

Edited at 2012-12-20 09:24 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - arabian on December 20th, 2012 09:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on December 20th, 2012 07:22 pm (UTC)
First, I just want to say that you are one of my fave reviewers of TVD because you actually look at the show objectively and also from a loving fan's POV! So, I appreciate your enthusiasm so much, because I hold the same excitement as you for this lovely, lovely show!

Anyway, going with this sire bond thing...I do think you made some really great points and the number one point that I think needs to be emphasized is that Julie has been planning this storyline for A YEAR! A whole year! This is not something she cooked up while eating dinner one night and drinking wine while watching "Downtown Abbey." Julie is a planner and this show requires the writers to take a deep look at all of the mythology points for every episode and especially for every storyline. So I, like you, have complete faith that Julie would never allow a HUGE twist like the sire bond reveal that affects one of the main couples of this show to go on with a heaping amount of holes in the plot and setup. If they wanted to make the bond more outright noticeable, Elena would have dropped Stefan in 4.2 without a doubt. She didn't and she fought against whatever she was feeling for quite some time before 4.7. So, I do think there's some big reveal that's going to happen some time this season. I really do. Nothing is ever as it seems on this show...nothing. And does anyone really believe Julie would actually tell us that the bond may not be real this early in the story? Hell no! Julie only tells us the information we already know either from the show or from whatever spoilers were already released. It's all about the surprise!

Now, while I do agree that something is fishy about the bond storyline, I tend to think they will keep the bond as being real,. I think the bond exists and it's basically elena's heightened emotions of love for Damon that are pushing her towards Damon and causing her to not look back and second guess herself. I don't think this bond is anything like Charlotte's bond because Charlotte was kind of crazy and that's also heightened. So, I think the bad affects of this bond, like Elena following Damon's orders are coming from Shane and I also agree that Klaus and Shane are working towards a common goal together and are trying to take down the leader of the gang...Damon. In order to do that, they hit him where it hurts his insecurities and his relationship/love with Elena. It makes total complete sense in that regard. So, Elena and Damon are bonded, which basically means they love each other too much but the negative aspects that we saw in Charlotte's bond with Damon aren't really present in Elena because Elena was a completely different person than Charlotte before she turned. Thus, Elena does want Damon to be happy and who doesn't want their loved ones happy? But, she is still a rational person and will not follow everything Damon says to do, unlike Charlotte who was irrational in her wanting to please Damon. Shane is just hypnotising Elena into following Damon's orders so everyone in the triangle will want the bond broken and thus will continue to look for the cure.
Arabian: Damon & Elena25arabian on December 20th, 2012 09:35 pm (UTC)
First, I just want to say that you are one of my fave reviewers of TVD because you actually look at the show objectively and also from a loving fan's POV! So, I appreciate your enthusiasm so much, because I hold the same excitement as you for this lovely, lovely show!

Well, thank you very much.

the number one point that I think needs to be emphasized is that Julie has been planning this storyline for A YEAR! A whole year! This is not something she cooked up while eating dinner one night and drinking wine while watching "Downtown Abbey." Julie is a planner and this show requires the writers to take a deep look at all of the mythology points for every episode and especially for every storyline. So I, like you, have complete faith that Julie would never allow a HUGE twist like the sire bond reveal that affects one of the main couples of this show to go on with a heaping amount of holes in the plot and setup.

I certainly hope so. I said after this summer that I wasn't going to lose faith in the writers unless after the show was over things didn't add up, but oy vey, if she's been planning this a year and there are THIS many plot holes and the sire bond is real? Yeah, that's a problem.

I tend to think they will keep the bond as being real

Before I decided it wasn't real, the idea that the bond is created solely because of true love is something that I was firmly on board with, but now, since they've made it so much about obeying/commands/lack of free will, etc., simply playing it as a negative, I don't see how Damon/Elena can be a viable couple until the sire bond is completely broken and if they aren't a viable couple during the sire bond stuff then all that happened in 4.01 and beyond is invalidated. The show has painted the sire bond as a bad thing, therefore, if Elena has it, it's not good for them. They have a bond, yes, and it's true love, but it's not a sire bond. It's just the bond of true love, which any species (vampire, human, werewolf) can have.
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on December 20th, 2012 10:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 23rd, 2012 05:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - banishedbender on January 4th, 2013 11:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 7th, 2013 05:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
sassy, classy, and a bit smart-assy: TVD: DE choosing youbadboy_fangirl on December 20th, 2012 08:55 pm (UTC)
As you know, I totally agree. All of your examples are spot on.

Additionally, I think you are totally right about what happened personally for Elena to cause the shift--not of her feelings, but of her ACCEPTANCE of her feelings. I also think that Damon jumping off the bridge with her -- the place where she was supposed to die, TWICE, was very significant. This is something I've been thinking about, thematically, for Damon and Elena since 2x18 when he told her he would *always* choose her. Again and again, he hasn't really saved her. He's rescued her after a trauma several times, but he never actually saved her--until he SAVED her. And symbolically went over with her. He didn't leave her, just like he promised, and instead of it being a burden that he would preserve her at all costs, it finally made sense to her. She was finally worth it, as you so eloquently explained.

She deserves to live, finally.
Arabian: Elena08arabian on December 20th, 2012 09:51 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I really do think that in the long run, what happened in episode 06 is IMMENSELY important. Thinking on what I wrote about it in my central character post, "[Elena] easily had not only the strongest emotional arc, but also possibly the strongest emotional arc a character ever has had in one episode," and I do think that really is key. That episode was basically an Elena-character study episode. It was all about her coming to grips with who Elena is now, letting go of her demons, her fears, her past, her guilt. We've seen baby steps from her before, but this was the big enchilada, and the fact that it involved Wickery Bridge/Willow Creek was key for reasons that contrasted with the first two times.

1.) The first time she went under, she came out of it feeling enormous guilt because she lived. This time that she went into that water, she did so because she let go of that guilt and wanted to "live."

2.) The second time she went under, she chose to die. This time, by not fighting Damon, she chose to "live."

And, yes, the fact that it was Stefan involved the first two times, and both times created a huge negative force in her psyche, and this third time (being the charm) with Damon gave her very essence a positive force, I think is significant.

However, I do disagree with this --

he never actually saved her

I think he has. He saved her in 1.11. Noah was going to get her, Damon showing up, scared him away and Damon pulling her out of the car was saving her. It was in concert with Stefan, but he did help save her in 1.12 also. In 2.03, he zoomed and took the arrow for her. Had he not done so, that very easily could have killed her. It was aimed right at her heart. He didn't get the credit, but she knew that it was both Damon and Stefan who saved her in 2.08. I also consider what he did in 3.05 saving her, because she was still in need of saving. She was being drained of blood, and unable to leave on her own, save herself in that hospital. Damon came in and saved her. None of it was as dramatic as what he did in 4.06, but he's definitely literally saved her in the past.

The difference, for me, is that in 4.06 she had let go of her guilt about wanting to die and Damon was the one who facilitated that this time, and due to that release, she also allowed herself to look at him as someone she wanted without that accompanying guilt. When he saved her, he was who she wanted to be there when she recovered. That's how I saw it anyway. :)
jamdourado: pic#111516876jamdourado on December 20th, 2012 10:28 pm (UTC)
I have some problems with the idea of Klaus and Shane working together, there are a lot of assumptions here but the more I read about it the more I start to think it's real, I still don't understand why Klause acted surprised a hunter of the Five is alive or how they met but the rest makes sense.
He used the cure to make Stefan be on his side and help him, but when Stefan tells Damon and Elena about it the plan is gone, but then he plant the idea of the sire bond on Caroline's head, now the problem was to make Elena act like she is sired, Klaus tells Shane to do the hypnoses thing her on the Lake House. I really like the idea of Elena being hypnotized, but my problem is that the show didn't give any hints on 4x09, I don't like how they will explain something that happened off screen on the next episodes, it will feel cheat??
But I completely agree with everything you said on the sire bond and Elena "following" it. Before the sire bond I thought that Elena didn't keep the animal's and Damon's blood or the blood bag was because she was ready to die, and other thing, Elena didn't say she couldn't keep the blood bag, she said it tasted like hot garbage, and it happened not only because she is a new vampire but because the blond was clotted??
And like you said, the only time we had Elena following Damon's request was on 4x09 and she was showing she wasn't OK with it unlike what happened with Charlotte.
Arabian: Damon & Elena20arabian on December 23rd, 2012 05:16 am (UTC)
I still don't understand why Klause acted surprised a hunter of the Five is alive or how they met but the rest makes sense.

That's a good point and really threw me -- but the thing is that there actually seems to be more pointing to Klaus/Shane working together via all they hybrid/Hayley stuff, so I don't know. I edited my post to mention that, as well as bringing in to the idea that maybe Shane and Klaus aren't working together, but just have the same purposes.

With Klaus not knowing about Connor, it could bethat either Shane was keeping that from him or even that Shane and Klaus are both working towards the same goal using whatever opportunities are at play but not working together. Klaus created the myth of the sire bond theory between Damon and Elena to keep them (and Stefan, Caroline, et al. distracted), and separately, Shane heard about it from Bonnie and realized he could use that as a distraction tool himself.

I also added this just yesterday -- This quote from Joseph Morgan that absolutely fits this theory: "Our heroes are at odds with each other. If they could unite themselves like they did at the end of Season 3, maybe they would have a chance [at killing Klaus], but as long as he can keep manipulating and planting doubt in their minds, they won't be able to come together and defeat him," Morgan says. "Everyone has forgotten that they put Klaus down, but Klaus hasn't forgotten. It's like lining up chess pieces on a board — everyone is playing against each other and everyone's arguing!"

That really does help line this up. Hmm.

I really like the idea of Elena being hypnotized, but my problem is that the show didn't give any hints on 4x09, I don't like how they will explain something that happened off screen on the next episodes, it will feel cheat??

But they did or else I wouldn't have thought of it (and a bunch of other people thought of this too). The many references from Damon about Shane uses hypnotism, and Elena flat-out saying 'can you hypnotize the sire bond away.' They were definitely dropping little hints with that stuff.
Bogwitch: TVD - Elenabogwitch on December 20th, 2012 11:39 pm (UTC)
I concur, the sire bond only makes sense if it's nonsense and the fact hypnotism is in play is a honking great clue. My main worry is still that a lot of this relies on people acting on how Klaus expects them to without guarantees. Of course, Klaus is a master at this kind of manipulation and he knows them all well, but I can't help thinking he's arrogant to just assume they'll do what he expects however spot on his judgement.

I also think that all of this will be so hard for the writers to convey - especially the blood bag part - without getting everyone together in the Salvatore's drawing room and getting Poirot to explain it all! I'm sure they'll manage, but I am wary of explanations that are too complicated.

I still expect things to play out this way though.
Bogwitch: TVD - Damon Won't Tellbogwitch on December 21st, 2012 08:49 am (UTC)
It occurred to me that one of the main reasons for believing Shane is working with Klaus is that bank of knowledge Klaus has about the others, but he could have got a lot of that from Bonnie - whom we do know has spent a lot of time with him. That big lump of time she was under is just screaming for an explanation (and I don't think it's a problem for Elena not to have gaps in memory - I think her hypnosis would have been quick).
(no subject) - arabian on December 23rd, 2012 05:21 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 23rd, 2012 05:19 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bogwitch on December 23rd, 2012 12:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 23rd, 2012 01:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Florencia: DE (I Honestly Miss You)florencia7 on December 20th, 2012 11:58 pm (UTC)
I love this theory ♥ There is really no other explanation that makes equal sense and I hope it's true.

I was re-watching some parts of this season's eps and I noticed something I missed before. Shane didn't just want 12 dead hybrids. He wanted 12 UNSIRED hybrids. Was it stated at any point why? Why was it so important they were unsired before they were killed? I think it provides an interesting context for the alleged DE sire bond.... I'm not sure what would the meaning of this context be, but it just seems interesting LOL

It's also interesting that Elena, albeit humorously, asked Shane if he could hypnotize her out of the sire bond. 1) It'd be a fun moment in retrospective if it would have turned out Shane did hypnotize her at some point. 2) What's even more interesting is his answer, that he never came across a spell that could break someone from loving too much. I mean... Elena wasn't asking about love, was she? She was asking about the sire bond. That makes Shane's answer seem slightly random. He kind of equals one with the other, as if breaking the sire bond equaled breaking someone from loving – and loving TOO MUCH at that. But that's not it, of course. What he's really revealing here, is that there is no sire bond to begin with. I think this scene totally backs up your theory, because it shows that while Elena is talking about the sire bond here, Shane (who knows there is no sire bond) answers her question referring to the actual truth behind her words, which is that she loves Damon very, very much.

I could seriously spend HOURS & HOURS just reading your amazing, brilliant analyses. I LOVE them ♥
Arabian: Damon & Elena09arabian on December 23rd, 2012 05:31 am (UTC)
I love this theory ♥ There is really no other explanation that makes equal sense and I hope it's true.

I really hope so too. I mean, have different layers and stuff, but basically just make the sire bond not real because IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. That is my issue here.

He wanted 12 UNSIRED hybrids. Was it stated at any point why?

Not as far as I remember, but I haven't rewatched this season yet. I'll probably do that sometime before the show returns.

It's also interesting that Elena, albeit humorously, asked Shane if he could hypnotize her out of the sire bond. 1) It'd be a fun moment in retrospective if it would have turned out Shane did hypnotize her at some point. 2) What's even more interesting is his answer, that he never came across a spell that could break someone from loving too much. I mean... Elena wasn't asking about love, was she? She was asking about the sire bond. That makes Shane's answer seem slightly random. He kind of equals one with the other, as if breaking the sire bond equaled breaking someone from loving – and loving TOO MUCH at that. But that's not it, of course. What he's really revealing here, is that there is no sire bond to begin with. I think this scene totally backs up your theory, because it shows that while Elena is talking about the sire bond here, Shane (who knows there is no sire bond) answers her question referring to the actual truth behind her words, which is that she loves Damon very, very much.

Hmm, hmm, hmm.... I love how you broke this down. And I'm so going to edit it into my post!

OK back -- did it, and added a bit more after it -- yeah, I've totally added some more stuff to the post based on comments and ... this quote from Joseph Morgan.

"Our heroes are at odds with each other. If they could unite themselves like they did at the end of Season 3, maybe they would have a chance [at killing Klaus], but as long as he can keep manipulating and planting doubt in their minds, they won't be able to come together and defeat him. Everyone has forgotten that they put Klaus down, but Klaus hasn't forgotten. It's like lining up chess pieces on a board — everyone is playing against each other and everyone's arguing!"

Uh huh.
flyingfish: elena tvdflyingfish1 on December 21st, 2012 12:45 am (UTC)
You know I agree! You summed everything up so well, this is fantastic.

Oh, hey, you mentioned me! :D

Given that Elena already believed she was sired, Shane wouldn't have had a hard time at all taking her subconcious just one step farther. I went to a stage hypnosis show once, and I know it's not the same thing as one-on-one hypnosis, but it really was amazing how some of the more willing audience members would go along with the craziest instructions! --As long as they already believed in the hypnotist's power of suggestion. With Elena already thinking she had to obey Damon's orders, it must have been a piece of cake for Shane. She was already mentally pliable. He wouldn't have to fight her on it the way he had to fight Jeremy.

I love, love that Caroline had the same reaction to her first sip from a bloodbag! And oh, the irony! "Name one vampire in the history of vampires who couldn't drink blood from a bloodbag!" she says. Well, uhhm, actually, Caroline, since you asked... :D

Also in episode 02, there was the final scene with the gang wanting to light lanterns. Damon may not have been specifically talking to Elena, but he was including her among the group when he said: "What we need to do is find out who this hunter is and what he knows about the death of the Council. We have more important things to be doing right now than this." Still, Elena didn't stop the lantern lighting and do what Damon, her "sire," said that they (including her) *had* to be doing right now.

Nice catch!!

I realize that this seemingly involves lots of assumptions, but I really think it's only two. (1) That Klaus and Shane are working together, and I do believe we've seen enough signs that it's very likely... Once you accept those two assumptions as likely, everything else neatly fits.

Definitely. And, you know, we may not even need to assume that much (this line of thought is brought to you by the fact that I rewatched 4x09 the other day and I couldn't make up my mind on whether Klaus and Shane were collaborating. I kept flip-flopping). I think as long as they're both working towards a common goal--and that's not an assumption, that's a known fact--they may not even need to be active co-conspirators who got together and planned this all in advance. They're manipulating the same people in the same kind of way, so they're going to be using the same strategies regardless. For instance, I can see Shane, without prior prompting from Klaus, picking up on the sirebond misunderstanding and deciding to play it up in order to meet his own goals of distracting Damon from the council explosion and of getting DE on his side. Shane overheard DE's 4x07 convo ("You") so he knows that their relationship is one of Damon's weak spots. As for Klaus, as you said, he needs the cure, so IMO his primary motivation is convincing his gang of potential helpers that Elena would be better off as a vulnerable, weak, human blood-source than as a vampire. S&C already believed that, but he needed something else to convince the others, and this is it. Distracting Damon is a great bonus ;) IDK, that's just a little tweak on the theory in case they don't turn out to be working together--or I guess I should say, "in case Klaus doesn't turn out to be working with Shane," since either way Shane has to be building on what Klaus already started. To be clear, I'm not saying I definitely disagree with you, because I don't--I'm just sort of coming up with contingency theories. The great thing about these two guys is that they're equally manipulative and they both go in for the long game... so their relationship could play out in a number of ways without messing up your theory overall.
flyingfish: elena tvdflyingfish1 on December 23rd, 2012 12:21 am (UTC)
I was just looking at some TVD/DE blogs on tumblr and this post is helping create a stir :)
(no subject) - arabian on December 23rd, 2012 12:33 am (UTC) (Expand)
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antonia_zar: damon/elena 4x06antonia_zar on December 21st, 2012 04:18 am (UTC)
Hi! So, you don't know me, but an anon posted on my Tumblr that your theory about the sire bond was really similar to mine (here), and I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who's thinking that the sire bond is a distraction/manipulation on Klaus and Shane's part to get Elena and Damon invested in finding the cure/Silas. Your theories about needing human blood from the vein to fully transition are really interesting - I never really thought about it that way, especially when compared to Caroline's transition. My theory about Elena rejecting so many sources of blood was more about her psychological/mind created issues around being a vampire and her suicidal thoughts manifesting in rejecting blood, but this in interesting too.

I really want the sire bond to be revealed to be fake. Mainly because of how it's been so inconsistently and sloppily developed that it's hard to draw any conclusions about which actions/thoughts/emotions that Elena has done this season are her own and which ones are influenced by the sire bond. I just want my girl to be happy and in charge of her own body/decisions :(
Arabian: Damon & Elena26arabian on December 21st, 2012 04:42 am (UTC)
Wow, I read your post and we really did come up with similar theories on the sire bond and how it's fake. I mean, like eerily similar to the point where we're either sharing a brain or the clues are TOTALLY THERE AND WE ARE RIGHT!

Like I said at the top, I'm OK with it being real with regards to Elena because I just see her arguing/disagreeing with Damon, while Damon (as always remains her whipped little puppy dog but in the hottest way possible) way too much for me to even remotely buy that her choices are being taken away. But the inconsistencies really are not like this show. I've rewatched every episode at least once and more of them multiple times, they hold up. There are a few things here and there, but a main plot that's driving the story and has been prepped for a year? I just don't buy that it would be this sloppy.

With regards to rejecting the blood, it just tracks to me that she simply hadn't fully "developed" as a vampire and thus needed to get a good dose of that fresh human blood from the source. Once she got that, she was fine.
(no subject) - antonia_zar on December 21st, 2012 05:04 am (UTC) (Expand)
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Hassana Do Valle: pic#116574297Hassana Do Valle on December 21st, 2012 11:50 pm (UTC)
You're a genius, just that *.* Thank you for open my eyes!!!!!!
Arabian: Alaric02arabian on December 23rd, 2012 06:01 am (UTC)
Aww, thank you. I'm glad you liked the theory. Hopefully it has some validity to it. :)
(Anonymous) on December 22nd, 2012 12:01 am (UTC)
I think you make total sense, and that the sire bond is fake is more plausible than it's real. Though, I am not really holding my breath.


Anyways,
In episode 2, if the sire bond is real - wouldn't "You are vampire - be a vampire. Vampires eat people" be a command and Elena would eat the first person she saw?

Damon did say, "She needs human blood - from the vein." in the same scene - to Stefan while Elena was not in the room. And one of Carolines arguments in 4x07 was: "When Elena started feeding, who said she could only drink blood straight from the vein." Seems Car and Stef is using something Damon said that Elena didnt even hear.. unless we just have to assume he told her off-screen at some point.

And I agree wholeheartedly that 4x06 changed Elena in all the ways you listed and the consequences from that.
Arabian: Ian & Nina(PS)06arabian on December 23rd, 2012 06:10 am (UTC)
I think you make total sense, and that the sire bond is fake is more plausible than it's real. Though, I am not really holding my breath.

But it makes sense and the show has done this before (season 02 sun/moon curse). There are small plot inconsistencies here and there, but overall and definitely on the big stuff, the show does really well.

In episode 2, if the sire bond is real - wouldn't "You are vampire - be a vampire. Vampires eat people" be a command and Elena would eat the first person she saw?

I read that, and thought, well, that's too literal -- but hey, Charlotte was literally counting bricks. So yeah. Good point.

Seems Car and Stef is using something Damon said that Elena didnt even hear.

Yup, they totally were just taking whatever bits of "proof" made their case. Pfft.

And I agree wholeheartedly that 4x06 changed Elena in all the ways you listed and the consequences from that.

And I did TOTALLY think that prior to the sire bond reveal in episode 07. *That* was the turning point.
(Anonymous) on December 22nd, 2012 11:07 am (UTC)
Love your post!! But I just have a question!! (I'm korean so plz forgive my eng)
Nandi said that if you had feelings for the sirer(is this how you spell it? I mean Damon) b4 you're turned, then you get sired when you become the vampire.

so if there is no sire bond, does that mean that elena did not had human feelings for damon??
As much as I love your theory, this just doesn't seem right!!
And my head is about to explode.......plz help me out ;(
Arabian: Damon04arabian on December 22nd, 2012 11:19 am (UTC)
does that mean that elena did not had human feelings for damon??

No. You're looking at it as if both are correlated. Yes, in order for there to be a sire bond, feelings have to have been there before the person was turned. But you don't have to have a sire bond to have feelings for someone. So, with or without the sire bond, Elena still has deep, deep feelings for Damon and had them well before she turned.
Natalia Snatalie_wy on December 22nd, 2012 02:24 pm (UTC)
I love this post to pieces.

First of all, while I've already read some meta on why the sire bond may not exist, and they seemed interesting, my main problem was with Elena's ability/inability to drink blood and how it worked with the sire bond being fake, but in your post you took time and explained your take on it, and I really liked it, so thank you for that.

Another thing that I loved is your careful analysis of D/E conversations and the related inconsistencies. My main problem with the *existence* of the sire bond was exactly those things, but it was nice to read about them more specifically, especially after Julie's denial of the said things. Also, thanks for the season 2 parallel - I wasn't in the fandom back then and didn't read any of the interviews or wonder about the curse, so here I had a chance to find out about these things.
Arabian: Elena-Caroline & Bonnie02arabian on December 23rd, 2012 06:13 am (UTC)
I love this post to pieces.

Aww, thank you. :)

my main problem was with Elena's ability/inability to drink blood and how it worked with the sire bond being fake, but in your post you took time and explained your take on it, and I really liked it, so thank you for that.

It just did not track, what Caroline was presenting. When I went back and watched Caroline's reaction to drinking from the bloodbag I was floored at how it was pretty much EXACTLY like Elena's. It just fit so smoothly in with what I believed about the transition.

My main problem with the *existence* of the sire bond was exactly those things, but it was nice to read about them more specifically, especially after Julie's denial of the said things.

Again, Julie's just tweaking what she's saying that gives a little wiggle room or when push comes to shove flat-out fibbing... which I totally get. This is a big twist, big story and emotionally it should pack a huge wallop when the reveal come, so she's going to want to keep her cards close to the vest.
dreamssincerity: Damon; Existential crisis ♥dreamssincerity on December 22nd, 2012 08:14 pm (UTC)
OMFG! This was AH-MAZING ♥ I could not have written like this myself. I'm bad with written words. Better at explaining by talking instead xD Anyways, I totally think this is a possibility and I love that you took all that time to explain your theory to us :)

So thank you for that :)
Arabian: Damon13arabian on December 22nd, 2012 10:14 pm (UTC)
Glad it made sense to you. Hopefully it is this, or something similar that makes it all make sense. :)

(no subject) - dreamssincerity on December 22nd, 2012 10:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 23rd, 2012 06:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on December 22nd, 2012 09:39 pm (UTC)
I have to say I agree with this and other posts on it. They said something like the cure will be like the sun and moon curse...but I think its the actual sire bond that is. And its perfect really. Carina said the sire bond's plot holes weren't plot wholes, we just had nothing else to base it off before now. Great analysis...sharing on twitter!
Arabian: Alaric01arabian on December 22nd, 2012 09:57 pm (UTC)
Carina is not someone I tend to pay much attention to (she misses things ALL the time per her recap/reviews). And that comment makes absolutely zero sense. In retrospect, something should make sense (ie, the plot points of this story), if they don't make sense... then they are plot holes.

Thanks for commenting. :)

Edited at 2012-12-22 10:24 pm (UTC)
bluesuzanne: FFFFFFFS;DLKGJ;LSKSTERNUM???bluesuzanne on December 23rd, 2012 11:43 am (UTC)
Um so... wow. I'm just now finally getting a chance to read over my friends' thoughts about the last TVD ep and... you're a genius. I have the same suspicions about the sire bond/Shane which I talked about in my recap for the ep at rophydoes, but I'm LOVING your detail. You raise lots of good points I hadn't thought of and are basically the best one. And I can't help hoping that we're right because it would be the BEST REVEAL EVER. NO, BITCHES. IT'S JUST LOVE. IT'S. JUST. LOVE.

In conclusion, thank you for this post, never change.
Arabian: Damon & Elena15arabian on December 23rd, 2012 12:38 pm (UTC)
I have the same suspicions about the sire bond/Shane which I talked about in my recap for the ep at rophydoes

Yeah, I saw that and was like -- yay! Other people see it too!!!

You raise lots of good points I hadn't thought of and are basically the best one. And I can't help hoping that we're right because it would be the BEST REVEAL EVER. NO, BITCHES. IT'S JUST LOVE. IT'S. JUST. LOVE.

It would be sooooooooo awesome.

Ooh, and by the way, I read your recap, but I was at work and couldn't respond. One thing did catch my eye that I wanted to mention, but since you're commenting here, I'll do it here. I don't know if this will help ease your concerns about the 'Elena's feelings for Stefan' angle that bothered you, but I'll try. I was actually surprised to read that concern, and even more surprised that other D/E fans were taking that 'distant memory' comment the way they were.

(At least I think it was your take!) You mentioned how Elena and the distant memory thing was showing that Elena didn't care for Stefan and that was present throughout the last few episodes, but I didn't see it that way. I took that comment not that Stefan and her love for him was a memory, but that how she felt at that moment specifically at the lake house when Stefan was all she thought of was the distant memory, because so much has happened and changed since then. And she is fresh and glowing in her feelings for Damon and so that he is all she's thinking of right now. Which makes sense.

I certainly got the feeling elsewhere that she still definitely cared about Stefan a lot. The morning after when she was leaving for school she was concerned with his feelings about this thing with Damon. At one point, she even seemed to start to say that maybe they shouldn't be together now (at least that's what I got from her words, her expression and Damon's reaction). She also certainly reacted when she saw Stefan. It was guilt, but there was also this sense of awkwardness because she does still care. She also brought him up a few times at the lake house meaning that being so in love with him (and only him) a distant memory or not, she was still thinking of him. Stefan and his reaction was still on her mind.

The thing is that she and Stefan didn't just have this epic love a few weeks ago and then they broke up. Stefan was gone for months, when he came back, things were terrible and they were only beginning to get back to anything when she turned. Then she did and in the immediate 24 hours after, yes, she was all clinging to their epic love, but fractures started right away because she was clinging to the memory of what they had before he left. And those fractures weren't about her vampirism or even her feelings for Damon, but about the distance between her and Stefan. Add to that, the last few days with him, she was furious and had already begun to pull away.

So that, plus her finally realized feelings for Damon, plus what was undoubtedly insanely awesome sex did create a natural paling of her thoughts about Stefan. But she still was thinking about him, and concerned. So to me it all made sense. She's basically been falling in love with Damon for the last six months or so and falling out of love with Stefan for that same period of time. The lovey-stuff we saw in the first few episodes was the residuals of that. At least that's how I read it.
(no subject) - bluesuzanne on December 23rd, 2012 01:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 23rd, 2012 01:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
hotarujazz: hands and dance 4x07hotarujazz on December 23rd, 2012 01:31 pm (UTC)
I held off on commenting because I had busy week and I wanted to polish my theory and arrange things in my head so that they make sense to me. I love everything about this post except Klaus and Shane working together because that had too many inconsistencies for my taste but I gladly believe that they both took advantage of situation and played off of each others setups. That fits better in what we saw on the show. I also think that hybrid sire bond has some significance in expression sacrifice and that unsiring was necessary for some reason,that was obvious in Haley plot line. What I would like to see on the show regarding the sire bond between Damon and Elena is ELENA asking the right questions about bond inconsistency. I also had wild thought about the truce between Rebekah and Elena brought on by common anger for Stefan at he moment where Rebekah has some thoughts about implausibility of sire bond between Damon and Elena. But that's just wishful thinking on my part. More realistic expectation I have is that we see more of Elena's anger towards Stefan. I feel like she is way overdue for some of that anger to be released, the show so rarely allowed her to really stand up for herself against him without backing down. How this ties in with sire bond is that I think that less she believes Stefan, the more she will begin noticing that sire bond doesn't make sense. The Shane hypnosis should of course trip her along the way. I hope I didn't go very far off topic but commenting to your posts always makes ideas pop in my head! :D
Arabian: Damon & Elena23arabian on December 24th, 2012 05:16 am (UTC)
I love everything about this post except Klaus and Shane working together because that had too many inconsistencies for my taste but I gladly believe that they both took advantage of situation and played off of each others setups.

Yeah, I'm leaning more towards that because of the inconsistencies, it just dovetails so nicely -- in terms of the timing -- for them to be working together, but the surprise about Connor for Klaus is a big clue that they aren't.

I also think that hybrid sire bond has some significance in expression sacrifice and that unsiring was necessary for some reason,that was obvious in Haley plot line. What I would like to see on the show regarding the sire bond between Damon and Elena is ELENA asking the right questions about bond inconsistency.

Elena really would be the one who makes the most sense in questioning it.

I also had wild thought about the truce between Rebekah and Elena brought on by common anger for Stefan at he moment where Rebekah has some thoughts about implausibility of sire bond between Damon and Elena. But that's just wishful thinking on my part.

*sigh* Yeah. I would so love to see Rebekah and Elena -- even in a temporary truce -- because I think Claire and Nina work so well together. Ah well.

More realistic expectation I have is that we see more of Elena's anger towards Stefan. I feel like she is way overdue for some of that anger to be released, the show so rarely allowed her to really stand up for herself against him without backing down.

This. This. This. If it doesn't happen, I'm OK with it because it isn't out of character, but it's something that could certainly happen and still be in character.

How this ties in with sire bond is that I think that less she believes Stefan, the more she will begin noticing that sire bond doesn't make sense. The Shane hypnosis should of course trip her along the way.

Yeah, I can see that too. Plus, seeing how selfish he is with regards to her Damon and his happiness would be a believable push too because she was on the other side when she dated him. I mean, even if you want to say prior to season 04, it didn't count because she was undeniably with Stefan first, the same can't be said post season 03 finale. Both of them were in the running, and just because she chose Stefan, he was essentially a shit in not even remotely thinking of Damon's broken heart. So, yeah, there is definitely an opening there.

I hope I didn't go very far off topic but commenting to your posts always makes ideas pop in my head! :D

Not at all. :)
(Anonymous) on December 23rd, 2012 03:19 pm (UTC)
So, I've been reading everyone's comments and yes, this post has got the attention of may die hard fans. I think this revelation should be kept away from Julie and Carina so that they have no idea that their HUGE TWIST of probably the season has been possibly figured out.

But, really this entire thing makes so much sense and if it happens....MAN! It's pretty brilliant! I must say. (A year's worth of planning brilliant)

You can also take this theory right back to the premiere with those 12 council members killing themselves....hypnotised by Shane? Probably. The Pastor leaving that note for April probably means he found a way to go against Shane's influence and warn his daughter. Of course Connor, the hunter controlled by Shane, would be sure to find it and confiscate it so Shane's intentions aren't revealed to anyone.

I also think April is going to play a pretty big part in this entire thing. Since she was the Pastor's daughter and the Pastor may have been an unwilling participant, it's possible that April is going to be the only one who will be able to save everyone including Caroline, Bonnie and Elena. Plus, the Pastor was after all vampires right? He questioned Elena and captured Stefan and Damon, so it makes perfect sense that Shane's ultimate motive was to get rid of the Salvatores and even Elena because they were standing in the way of whatever his ultimae goal is and he was using the Pastor to do it, plus get Bonnie some power to help him out.

So, I think Shane is going to use his influence on Elena to lure the brothers out and then proceed to try and kill them with ELena in the next few episodes. Bonnie will probably play a part in this too, without even realizing it..
Arabian: Bonnie02arabian on December 23rd, 2012 04:03 pm (UTC)
So, I've been reading everyone's comments and yes, this post has got the attention of may die hard fans.

I'm not on tumblr where I think this is making the rounds, so I don't about there, but I certainly have gotten a number of comments here from non-regulars to my journal, that's for sure.

I think this revelation should be kept away from Julie and Carina so that they have no idea that their HUGE TWIST of probably the season has been possibly figured out.

While I agree that I'd kinda prefer Julie doesn't find out about it (now, LOL!), Carina has NOTHING to do with this. It's in no way "her twist." She's not a writer for the show, and has nothing to do with it other than the fact that she's a journalist (and one I'm not particularly fond of) who has great access to the show. (Sorry, but really, really not a Carina MacKenzie fan.)

But, really this entire thing makes so much sense and if it happens....MAN! It's pretty brilliant! I must say. (A year's worth of planning brilliant)

I tend to think of these writers as pretty durn brilliant, so I can believe it!

RE: April -- I think you're right and that she has a big part to play yet, but I don't know that it's going to be revealed so soon. She and whatever the Shane deal is will probably play out for the rest of the season. I don't know what the other big reveals/secrets/twists could be -- I pay attention to the show, but I only pay attention in uber-detail to the D/E related aspects of the show so I have no guesses on what the whole 12 hybrids/souls, cure, Pastor Young, etc. plan is. All of my brain-power was devoted to this sire bond one just because it had so many inconsistencies and, of course, effected Damon and Elena.

I definitely think that Bonnie's going to play a large role, and it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
KyrieAnne: pic#111039271kyrieanne on December 24th, 2012 02:06 am (UTC)
So I'm fairly new to TVD and I've loved reading a ton of your posts, including this really thorough one. Love them all! A couple thoughts:

1. I hope the sire bond is not real (real in the way Stefan and Caroline understand it to work) because it undermines Elena's agency to make her own choices, an important theme for her character. I'm hoping you're right about this.

2. I have doubts about Klaus & Shane working together (though definitely working toward a similar goal for different reasons!) because Klaus was definitely surprised by the existence of Connor and if he had been working with Shane wouldn't he have been livid to find out Shane was keeping something from him?

3. I think Klaus (and/or Shane) making up the sire bond to distract Damon & co., requires too many things outside of Klaus' control to work (Caroline coming to the conclusion, Damon believing it, etc.). I do think the hypnotism idea by Shane is plausible (especially to explain Elena's weird comments on her mind/body wanting different things when she leaves the cabin).

4. Here is my BIG question - how does this sire bond (or made up sire bond) tie into the larger story of the search for the cure and Silas? I don't think the writers would introduce such a big element without it yielding something to the larger (i.e. beyond the Damon-Stefen-Elena triangle) story. Shane is creepy as hell and he seems to aligning elements a lot like Season 2 did. You've got the sacrifice of 12 council members, 12 unsired hybrids, 5 hunters/Jeremy, and a Bennet witch getting her magic back. Throw April in there - she's mentioned recognizing both Connor and Shane though it was only Shane she actually placed - and you've got Shane rounding up people/elements for what sounds like a spell. He's had a hand in all of it. The writers on this show love to draw everything together, bouncing one story line off another, which makes me think that the sire bond has to intersect with the cure story somehow more than just motivating Stefan to find a cure.

Would love to hear your thoughts!
Arabian: Damon & Elena25arabian on December 24th, 2012 05:45 am (UTC)
First off - SQUEE!! Ben and Leslie! :D

So I'm fairly new to TVD and I've loved reading a ton of your posts, including this really thorough one. Love them all!

Aww, thanks. I don't know if you found it, but I have a TVD round-up post that contains most of my TVD-related posts, nicely ordered. :)

1. I hope the sire bond is not real (real in the way Stefan and Caroline understand it to work) because it undermines Elena's agency to make her own choices, an important theme for her character. I'm hoping you're right about this.

I personally don't see how it's undermining her agency simply because the way Stefan and Caroline understand it has already been proven wrong. Elena makes up her mind, changes Damon's mind, argues and flat-out doesn't go along with his way of thinking, so it's clearly not happening. Except for that last 'go home' from Damon -- which has GOT to be courtesy of Shane. It was just so very different, her reaction.

2. I have doubts about Klaus & Shane working together (though definitely working toward a similar goal for different reasons!) because Klaus was definitely surprised by the existence of Connor and if he had been working with Shane wouldn't he have been livid to find out Shane was keeping something from him?

Yeah, that's the big thing that keeps me from holding onto them working together. So, yeah, them working towards similar goals intersecting works as well. Actually, I'm leaning more towards that because of the inconsistencies, it just dovetails so nicely -- in terms of the timing -- for them to be working together, but the surprise about Connor for Klaus is a big clue that they aren't. We'll see.

3. I think Klaus (and/or Shane) making up the sire bond to distract Damon & co., requires too many things outside of Klaus' control to work (Caroline coming to the conclusion, Damon believing it, etc.).

I don't think so. Klaus clearly thought that Caroline WOULD figure it out which is why he dropped the hint. And it's blindingly obvious to anyone who's spent any time among those three (the triangle) as Klaus to know how crazy insecure Damon is about Elena. And even if he didn't believe it, they would still explore it on the off-chance that it is true. Again, I go back to the idea that Klaus has spies everywhere.

Of course if it's not Klaus, we do have --

I do think the hypnotism idea by Shane is plausible (especially to explain Elena's weird comments on her mind/body wanting different things when she leaves the cabin).

Yuppers, Shane. The bottom line is that I just don't see how the sire bond is real with all the inconsistencies and Klaus and/or Shane manufacturing the belief makes sense.

TBC

(Wow! First response to you and I'm already bringing out the double responses, LOL!)
(no subject) - kyrieanne on December 24th, 2012 06:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 27th, 2012 03:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 27th, 2012 03:15 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 24th, 2012 05:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - kyrieanne on December 24th, 2012 06:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 27th, 2012 03:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on December 24th, 2012 10:01 pm (UTC)
Hey! I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but I'm a little confused on one thing:

In "O Come All Ye Faithful," I figured that Hayley had told Klaus that his hybrids were unsired and were meeting up at the cellar and that's why Klaus went and killed them all. He must have figured Tyler is the one who had taught them how to unsire themselves and that is why, after, Klaus was looking for him/killed his mother. If Klaus was working with Shane, wouldn't he have known about the hybrids? Why would he get so angry and go after Tyler?

Thanks! I love this entire post :)
Arabian: Damon & Elena22arabian on December 27th, 2012 03:20 am (UTC)
I'm not sure. I think now it's probably more likely that Klaus and Shane aren't working together, just both wanting the same thing from separate agendas. Or if they are working together, Klaus didn't know that the hybrids had to be unsired. With them unsired, that's why Klaus killed them. And he was going after Tyler because Tyler was (a) the one leading the unsiring charge, and (b) Tyler was asserting himself as the Alpha of the group, thus challenging Klaus' dominance. Can't have that.

I love this entire post :)

Thank you. :)
aurora7948/Celestial Aurora: Faerieaurora7948 on December 25th, 2012 10:15 am (UTC)
PART I. Ok, You know I'm a DE shipper to begin with. BUT I tend to try to see things objectively and on this show, I very rarely try to guess what's coming (I leave that to people who think brilliant thinky thoughts like you!) However, I was calling "shenanigans" on the sire bond thing from the start. So glad to see I'm not alone. To start off with, even if the sire bond was real (which your post has convinced me that it definitely is NOT), Elena has had feelings for Damon that had been building for at least half a season PRIOR to her being turned. All us DE shippers have been watching this and waiting with baited breath (<3 Denver). Therefore, regardless of whether or not the sire bond is real, Elena's feelings for Damon are still 100% real.

But going back to the proof or lack thereof of the sire bond, I've read your post and most of the comments made thus far and I have to say, I can absolutely see where you're coming from. And here's something else that is maybe nit-picky but I think helps to disprove the final piece of Caroline and Stefan's "proof" of the sire bond that hasn't yet been addressed: the whole "Damon likes the red dress, Elena likes the red dress." This is used as "proof" of the sire bond. Well, consider that a) this is actually a very petty disagreement of a color/style of a dress for someone that neither character is wholly invested in (not saying it's unimportant or that April is unimportant because everything is important in this show) and b) the scene that immediately follows it. What happens directly after is that Elena confronts Damon and confesses to him that HE is the reason she broke up with Stefan. Ok, having been in the shoes of someone who is about to confess that they have feelings for someone, it is a REALLY SCARY situation to be in. When you are in the puppy-love stage of acknowledging that you have feelings for a person, you automatically do things in order to make them happy. You agree with them, take their side on things, especially on things that don't really matter. Secondly, she was about to confess to him that she had feelings for him. Now, she had no way of knowing for sure how he would respond to this news. She CHOSE Stefan. And as we all know, Damon is a loose cannon. He could have been angry with her for jerking him around yet again. He could have been so thrilled that he whisked her away from the pageant (something else that she probably wouldn't have wanted). He could have not believed her and caused a scene out of anger or frustration. Bottom line though is that she couldn't be sure of his reaction so therefore agreeing on his choice of dress color even just slightly (all she says is that the red one is nice, which it can be without her saying that April should wear it, which she doesn't say) is actually her way of flattering him and buttering him up a little bit. She uses this situation with the dress to acknowledge and show him that she listens to him and that his opinion on things matters to her.

The "only human blood from the vein" thing, I completely agree with the idea you have that she needed to drink from a human to complete the transition. And I love that you pointed out the Caroline couldn't (especially since she was the one to make such a big deal out of it).
Arabian: Damon & Elena24arabian on December 27th, 2012 03:30 am (UTC)
Elena has had feelings for Damon that had been building for at least half a season PRIOR to her being turned. All us DE shippers have been watching this and waiting with baited breath (<3 Denver). Therefore, regardless of whether or not the sire bond is real, Elena's feelings for Damon are still 100% real.

This is so key to me. I really don't think the fake sire bond is about screwing DE fans, but rather about getting Stefan (and Caroline) to see just how strong and real her feelings for Damon are. They'll see her longing for him, wanting to be with him, so happy about the idea of them, doing what she did with him so quickly, and right now they're putting it down to the sire bond. If (when) the sire bond is proven fake, they have to sit back and realize that everything they saw in how Elena acted, those intense feelings for him that she has, that they saw, acknowledged and accepted but dismissed, can no longer be dismissed. It is real. And they definitively know it.

Re: Red dress vs blue dress. I always just looked at it as Elena is all googly-eyed for him, she's going to agree, pshaw!sire bond. I still think that holds, but your take adds a really great dimension to it and really makes a lot of sense.

The "only human blood from the vein" thing, I completely agree with the idea you have that she needed to drink from a human to complete the transition. And I love that you pointed out the Caroline couldn't (especially since she was the one to make such a big deal out of it).

Well, to be fair, she could. After she threw the bag away, she did go and retrieve it and drink from it. However, the next time we saw her, she STILL had circles under her eyes with a sick pallor, and she told the nurse that she was starving. So it still holds.
(no subject) - aurora7948 on December 27th, 2012 05:00 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 30th, 2012 06:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on December 25th, 2012 03:13 pm (UTC)
I think it all makes sense the more and more I think about it....honestly.

If you look back on earlier episodes in the season, Elena was acting completely different than in 4.7-4.9. She was defiant, courageous, spunky, and absolutely terrified of what was happening to her. In 4.7 she wasn't acting that strange at all but she was in pursuit of Damon. It was cute, don't get me wrong, but it was a little sudden. I don't know if Shane had hypnotised her yet, if this theory holds true. Even with the little red dress incident...she didn't really change her mind. All Elena said was that she thought the red dress was pretty she didn't tell April to wear it once Damon stepped in the room. Then once Damon left she told April to wear what she wanted. NOTHING in that episode screamed sire bond...nothing! And nothing in 4.8 screamed sire bond either, especially the blood bag stuff as you rightfully pointed out.

The only episode that Elena felt and acted "bonded" was in 4.9...and who's there? Shane. That can't be a coincidence.
Arabian: Elena09arabian on December 27th, 2012 03:23 am (UTC)
If you look back on earlier episodes in the season, Elena was acting completely different than in 4.7-4.9. She was defiant, courageous, spunky, and absolutely terrified of what was happening to her. In 4.7 she wasn't acting that strange at all but she was in pursuit of Damon. It was cute, don't get me wrong, but it was a little sudden.

It was sudden, but it made PERFECT sense. The change was because of what happened in episode 06. That was a HUGE episode for Elena. She basically came to terms with who she is now, and that it's OK that she didn't die the night her parents did, and that her coming out undying when Matt was saved is OK too. THAT is why we had the change in Elena.

The only episode that Elena felt and acted "bonded" was in 4.9...and who's there? Shane. That can't be a coincidence.

This I totally agree with. Uh huh.
aurora7948/Celestial Aurora: Faerieaurora7948 on December 25th, 2012 04:48 pm (UTC)
PART II: Another note on the sire bond thing....they have mentioned that sire bonds between vampires are different from how they are for the hybrids but in "My Brother's Keeper" Hayley specifically states that the sire bond was made because Klaus released them from the pain of having to transform every full moon. And that the only way to break that bond is to no longer feel that gratitude to him for it (this is confirmed by Tyler via Caroline who says the same thing to Stefan over the phone).... Now let's take this and look at the bond from the vampire point of view. The reason for a vampire sire bond is that there has to have been human feelings there prior to the transition. This is the point where my little brain goes "WAIT A MINUTE". We have 2 different explanations for how/why the sire bond is created. And 2 different ways in which it can be broken. Ok, ok, I know they said that the bonds work differently but this just seems like a bit much. Either Tyler would have to have had feelings for Klaus, according to the the vampire method, or Elena would have to feel grateful to Damon for being released from something, a la the hybrid bond method. Now Elena may very well be grateful (subconsciously) to Damon for turning her and helping her escape the pain of mortality, I'd be willing to agree to that. But Tyler DEFINITELY did NOT have warm and fuzzy feelings for Klaus prior to being turned into a hybrid. And we have seen, without a doubt, that Tyler WAS INDEED sire bonded to Klaus. So are we supposed to just take it at face value that both explanations for the sire bond are true? Taking this a step further, we get told in "We'll always have Bourbon Street" that Charlotte wanted to be a vampire. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but most people who are well adjusted in their lives and are pretty content, are not looking for someone to turn them into a vampire. From what I know, those that want to be turned are generally trying to "escape" something, some feeling. She ASKS Damon to turn her. She may have been "crazy" about him at first sight, but she ASKS to be turned. So rather than the whole "human feelings" thing, wouldn't it be possible that Charlotte may have been sired out of gratitude? Just a thought.

Currently re-watching "We'll Always Have Bourbon Street" and I have to say, the whole "prove she's not sired by making her drink from a blood bag"....it really doesn't fit the sire bond thing, at least not the literal-ness of it.

Damon:Well, last time you tried it, the circumstances were less optimal and I think maybe you should just give it another try, see if it works. I really think it will. (Elena looks at Damon.) Please... for me?

Ok, again, I know this is nit-picky, but he doesn't actually give this to her as either a direct order or as telling her directly that it will make him happy. He gives her his opinion that he "thinks" it will work. Not exactly the same thing as "needing" blood from the vein. So why would this have worked so quickly and easily if they were sire bonded to counteract what he had said before? And if the whole point of the sire bond is to make the sire happy, then Damon DEFINITELY does NOT look happy when he asks her more than once if she's ok and even when she's kissing him. Elena is not stupid or blind. She even hugs him and he is stiff. Obviously, he is not happy with her reaction to drinking from a blood bag. But does this cause her to vomit it up later? Nope.

I 100% think that Shane has hypnotized Elena. I mean, as someone else pointed out, all 3 of the girls had some of that "herbal tea". There had to be a reason for this. There has to be some effect that they all experience. Even the way that Bonnie introduces it to them "It's spirit tea. It opens up your chi or whatever." shows that she is not fully sure of what it does or is capable of doing. Bonnie and Elena we can guess at what their hypnotic sessions are aiming at but it makes me curious as to what Caroline is being hypnotized to do....and as I typed that.....is it possible that he is hypnotizing her to be more open to ideas of being with Klaus?????? This would support the whole Klaus/Shane connection from the beginning (which, I don't really think is how things started this season but I don't know for sure).
Arabian: Caroline04arabian on December 27th, 2012 03:38 am (UTC)
RE: The whole vampire vs werwolf sire bond.

You know I was ready to argue that the werewolf bond and the vampire bond being different makes sense because one is a wolf, the other isn't -- that's based on love, blah, blah, blah.... however as I started to type, I thought, you know what? You're right. Anyone who asks a vampire to turn them is going to be grateful, and if you add feelings into that. Ugh, I don't know! Because Damon, nor Stefan was sire bonded to Katherine and we know they loved her. Isobel asked to be turned by Damon, thus would have been grateful when he did so, and we know she wasn't sire bonded to him. So what gives? UGH! I do not know.

RE; Elena and Damon giving her the blood bag. Your point holds and it goes along with my they can't have their cake and eat it too. SUCH a big deal was made about the whole 'literal' aspect of the sire bond, with Stefan really harping on it, the counting of the bricks, etc. There are so many 'literal' things that Damon has said to Elena that she has not done (see my stuffs above), and he 'literally' told her in 4.09 that he was setting her free... and yet she kissed him goodbye and DID NOT WANT TO GO. The only literal one that worked was what I pointed out -- the direct command -- and that could be explained with Shane hypnotizing her.

I 100% think that Shane has hypnotized Elena. I mean, as someone else pointed out, all 3 of the girls had some of that "herbal tea". There had to be a reason for this. There has to be some effect that they all experience. Even the way that Bonnie introduces it to them "It's spirit tea. It opens up your chi or whatever." shows that she is not fully sure of what it does or is capable of doing. Bonnie and Elena we can guess at what their hypnotic sessions are aiming at but it makes me curious as to what Caroline is being hypnotized to do....and as I typed that.....is it possible that he is hypnotizing her to be more open to ideas of being with Klaus?????? This would support the whole Klaus/Shane connection from the beginning (which, I don't really think is how things started this season but I don't know for sure).

Hmm, good point. I don't know if that's the thing with Klaus/Caroline because she was DEFINITELY cozying up to him, etc. in 4.07 (and had moments with him in 4.05) and that was before the tea. Maybe it's something yet to appear, maybe a sleeper hypnotism command?
(no subject) - aurora7948 on December 27th, 2012 05:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 30th, 2012 06:34 am (UTC) (Expand)
aurora7948/Celestial Aurora: Faerieaurora7948 on December 25th, 2012 04:49 pm (UTC)
PART III:
I think that the connection between Shane and the pastor has really only been glanced over but I think with all the conjecture that he has hypnotized Elena, it bears mentioning (and someone else commented on this first) that he may have hypnotized the pastor. I mean, that would kind of help to make sense out of why he and the pastor had so many phone calls on the day that the pastor blow up the council. And I'd be willing to be that he has hypnotized April in some way. She did mention that she had met him before. What if she is being hypnotized to ingratiate herself into the circle of Elena and her friends. Wouldn't that be an easy way to gain intelligence? The naive, innocent and unsuspecting April slowly gets brought into their circle only to be reporting, because she is hypnotized to do so, back to Shane everything that's going on. This would also now make her a fantastic spy for him alone because she can not be compelled due to the vervain bracelet.

(And, side not, while I'm watching this episode....I f***ing hate Stefan in it. When he apologizes to Damon for saying about Elena being so blind that she can't see how wrong [Damon] is for her and it triggers that flashback of Stefan apologizing in the 1940's....You see clearly that it is a rehearsed apology. Not sincere, not said out of any feelings of guilt or remorse. And it made me so damn pissed to know that Stefan lies like that just cause it's easier than dealing with the issues with his brother. And reminds me of some other times when he's apologized to Elena just to placate her too. I hate condescension and placation like this. And I always used to like Lexi...until this episode. Agree with the "judgy" thing completely. It reminded me of a religious zealot "My way is the only way" type of thing.)


Wow, SO SORRY this ended up being so long. Just <3 all the thoughts and discussion!
Arabian: Damon&Stefan04arabian on December 27th, 2012 03:46 am (UTC)

I think that the connection between Shane and the pastor has really only been glanced over but I think with all the conjecture that he has hypnotized Elena, it bears mentioning (and someone else commented on this first) that he may have hypnotized the pastor. I mean, that would kind of help to make sense out of why he and the pastor had so many phone calls on the day that the pastor blow up the council. And I'd be willing to be that he has hypnotized April in some way. She did mention that she had met him before. What if she is being hypnotized to ingratiate herself into the circle of Elena and her friends.


Or, like with Caroline, it's a case of sleeper hypnotism? Hmmm..... It makes sense re: Shane and Pastor Young, and April's play here.

I still love Stefan, but I LOATHE Lexi. I was meh the first episode -- you know when instead of running off into the night with her vampire speed, she was about to attack/kill Sheriff Forbes, and ulterior motive or not, DAMON SAVED HER LIFE -- I actively did not like her after her 2nd appearance where she essentially told Damon 'yeah, I'm gonna take care of the special snowflake that is your brother who I've just met, and leave you all alone to figure this vampire thing out, toodles!' I could NOT stand her in her 3rd appearance where we found out she's been "helping" Stefan the years by TORTURING HIM! Now, I see her name, and I see red. And yet she still managed to give me more reason to hate her. Here, we basically find out that SHE is the reason why Damon and Stefan didn't reconnect until now, not Katherine, no, it's been that bitch, Lexi. I loathe Lexi. Hate her, hate her, hate her.

But I love Stefan. And I'm willing to forgive his asshole ways with Damon because he's his younger brother, and because Damon has done some terrible things to Stefan. We haven't seen much beyond the first half of season 01, but both Damon and Stefan have made it clear that Damon has done a lot of shitty things to his brother because he blamed him for Katherine. I'm not arguing that backstory that we've gotten from BOTH Stefan and Damon.

Wow, SO SORRY this ended up being so long. Just <3 all the thoughts and discussion!

You've seen how long my post was! I totally get it. :)
(no subject) - aurora7948 on December 27th, 2012 06:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 30th, 2012 06:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on December 26th, 2012 06:21 pm (UTC)
I love all the thoughts surrounding the SB crap.Yes, I did call it crap because the way they have incorporated it into the story unless they work feverishly to explain the Grand Canyon gaps in the story and present us with a brilliant plot line or it will end up to be something that will make us go"Are you f*cking kidding me?" To be honest I tend to lean towards the latter.In any case, Damon is my raison d'etre for watching TVD and more anguish and heartache for him is truly verboten in my book,otherwise it becomes a cheap ploy to gives us angst upon angst from the one character they have tried -and succeeded in my opinion- to redeem .Enough you guys, you have taken him through the ringer more than a few times.And yet, I believe they are not done with him or with Elena for that matter.
This is why in spite of all the solid arguments that you have presented for the SB to be fake I think they will not go down that road.I will play devil's advocate for the sole purpose that you guys will refute my arguments and make them so wrong that I will be ecstatic to be wrong for the first time in my life.

We all now that Elena's behavior toward Damon was in character with the Elena from season 3, the Elena who chose Stefan, the Elena who admitted to him that choosing him was the best choice ever in the history of choices.You have listed all the reasons that we have no inclination or proof that Elena was obedient or compliant to Damon's wishes something that would give us an opening to suspect strange behavior, thus apply them to the effects of a SB.All that changed when Damon saved her on the Wickery Bridge.

Elena's epiphany and subsequent metamorphosis happened right after the end of the hallucinations and Damon's appearance and timely event of saving her life.What if this act of saving her life coupled with her existent feelings for him prior to turning awakened the SB?What if this was a catalyst that propelled the SB to take effect through her gratitude? We don't know enough from Charlotte's case to deduce if her SB was because of simply being in love with Damon before he turned her or if there was another instance where she was grateful to him beyond her love for him.I still believe they will make circles around the gaping holes of the story and give us the SB as fait accompli and go the route of cheap tricks and cop outs thus turning Elena human and sacrificing Damon to do so.

I would love to be wrong ,please someone tell me I'm wrong! One thing that has me puzzled among thousands in this SB story is JP's description of the SB as "a tiny obstacle" to Damon and Elena's love or chance at love if you will.Tiny obstacle?In which world is an unbreakable SB a tiny obstacle and why did she qualify it as "tiny"instead of simply an obstacle?On this one maybe she is giving a clue that the size of the obstacle becomes tiny when in fact it never existed.So I could not even finish this post without doubting my own argument for the SB to be true,therefore there is hope ....I hope ;-)
aurora7948/Celestial Aurora: Faerieaurora7948 on December 27th, 2012 06:40 am (UTC)
I think you have touched upon something else that is an overarching theme of the show thus far. So much of this show has been about Damon redeeming himself. Finding his own self-worth. How has Stefan changed? Has his character really evolved? Has he changed in any significant way? I don't really think so. Every other major character that has been around since the beginning of the show has developed and evolved. Stefan hasn't. Going back to Damon, he and Elena BOTH had to grow and change and find themselves before they could find each other and find love with each other. And Damon is redeeming himself. I agree, I don't think the writers are done with either one of them. Cause if they were, the show would be just about over. The angst is in the two of them getting together and the difficulties they'll face in staying together at first. An I think Damon will screw up majorly again. I think Stefan will try to win her back. But in the end, Damon and Elena are the EPIC love story of this show.

Yes, Elena chose Stefan. HUMAN Elena chose him. But she chose an ending with him. She chse him, knowing that she would lose him. And it was easier to let go of and say goodbye to the one she had rather than try to completely and fully open her heart to Damon when she knew she was going to lose him too. But we all saw the growing feelings she had for Damon and how badly Stefan had hurt her. Their relationship would not have survived much longer even if she hadn't been turned.

The bridge incident may have awoken the sire bond...but I feel that there would/should have been some sort indication of it if it had been there before and there wasn't. Elena was with Stefan. Period. Obviously not what her "sire" would have wanted.

So have hope! They will be together!
(no subject) - arabian on December 30th, 2012 07:03 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 30th, 2012 06:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
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