?

Log in

 
 
14 December 2012 @ 03:12 am
4.09 - 'O Come, All Ye Faithful' (The Vampire Diaries)  
:Sniffsniff: The last new episode of The Vampire Diaries until January 17th. Well, actually, I'm not truly :Sniffsniffing: as one would imagine I would because whee!!! I get my Thursdays back! And the many hours spent typing, responding, gif-ing, icon-ing, etc. Whee! Still, show, I will miss you and your continued awesome. But before we must part for the long, cold month ahead, I give you one more Thursday (technically Friday now) full of plenty o' words.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but I think I got the basics of this bad boy nailed down. Elena is NOT sire-bonded to Damon. Nope, no how, no way, no siree. I am putting together a post (with gifs and quotes and caps for fun!) of the whole enchilada, so I'll just point out why this episode specifically confirmed my 100% belief that it's not real. Before I do, I want to note that I'm not trying to disprove the sire bond because I hate it. I don't. I'm perfectly fine with it because (a) I have zero doubt that Elena loves Damon, (b) I have zero doubt that Damon would not take advantage of Elena, and (c) I'm pretty sure that if it *were* real, Damon or Elena would wind up "cured" by the end of the season, thus breaking the sire bond. So I'm not arguing its existence because emotionally it wreaks me to bits, you all know I'm totally fine with it from its first inclusion... when I figured it was real. Nope, I'm convinced it's not real because it doesn't make sense otherwise.

The writers have been planning this for a year, I find it highly improbable that something planned a year in advance would be so very sloppy with so many plot holes, question marks and flat-out contradictions... unless Elena is not sire bonded to Damon. And she is so not. How could this episode where we seemingly got even more proof that she is do so? Simple. One Professor Atticus Shane. After the episode aired, I kept thinking about the whole sire bond stuff and after much discussion with the always awesome sarcasticcheese and butterfly, I figured it out. (Full, word-explosion being saved for the post specifically devoted to this).
    01.) Klaus wants Elena to be a human so he can continue to build his hybrid army.

    02.) Damon doesn't care if Elena is human or not. There's no way that Klaus doesn't know Damon enough at this point to not get that.

    03.) Stefan does care if Elena is human or not and very, very much wants her to get back there. There's no way that Klaus does not know this.

    04.) Klaus introduced the idea of the sire bond to Caroline.

    05.) Klaus knows that Stefan -- on the outs from Damon and Elena -- would pretty much only have Caroline to turn to.

    06.) Klaus knows that Caroline is Team!Stefan when it comes to who is better for Elena, Stefan or Damon.

    07.) Klaus knows that if Stefan believes that Elena is not willingly with Damon, and restoring her humanity is the only way to break that bond, he'll work even harder to do so.

    08.) Caroline/Stefan -- because they hate the idea of Elena with Damon -- quickly accept the theory that Elena is sire bonded to Damon and treat it as fact.

    09.) Stefan presents this "fact" to Damon.

    10.) Normally, Damon would be quick to see through any logical inconsistencies, but when his emotions are heavily clouded, his quick reasoning skills go the way side. Especially when it involves his incredibly low self-esteem and his belief that no one would ever, could ever choose him willingly. So he believes it, and uses Stefan's test (and only one) to prove or disprove it.

    11.) Caroline spills to Elena, presenting it as "fact."

    12.) Because of the emotions involved, again, both Elena and Damon take it as fact and instead of using logic to reason through it, they go by emotions, which by virtue of the supposed sire bond, are affected.

    13.) Klaus tells Stefan that he "intuited" the sire bond between Damon and Elena.

    14.) Hayley is working with Shane. Hayley has an unheard tête-à-tête with Klaus. After a brief conversation with Stefan where he adroitly deflects any possible interest in why Klaus was talking to Hayley by bringing up Stefan's inner demons, Klaus heads directly to the hybrids and slaughters the hell out of them. Just like Shane wanted.

    15.) Ergo, Klaus and Shane are working together.

    16.) Shane is at the lake House with Damon and Elena. Shane points out to Elena that Damon is very "intuitive" (much like Klaus "intuited" the sire bond -- same word choice).

    17.) Shane also makes a point to let Elena (and the AUDIENCE) know that he is aware that she and Damon have a sire bond.

    18.) Damon made it a point to reference Shane's hypnotism more than a few times, thus reminding viewers of that skill set of his.

    19.) Damon wants to kill Shane, has threatened to do so a lot. Elena has the biggest sway over Damon. If someone wanted to stop Damon from threatening to kill him like lots, their best bet would be to get Elena on their side so that she can convince Damon to not kill them.

    20.) There are chunks of time not seen at the lake house where Shane and Elena could have had plenty o' conversations, where, oh, say Shane could have used some of his hypnotism-whammo on her to tell Elena to trust him (which she told Damon that she did), and to input some suggestion wherein she would obey Damon's direct commands to her.
All of the above explains the basics of it. It really does. If Klaus and Shane are working together, then obviously there is this big picture at play they're trying to hide. Keeping a good number of the key players focused on this sire bond issue (as Klaus knew it would do so for Damon, Stefan and Elena, and because of Elena, likely Caroline and Bonnie as well), keeps them (especially Damon, the smarts of the group) occupied and not looking at that bigger picture.

Also, it gives a reason as to why -- when so many things are left unknown, bigger things, I might add, to so many characters -- Bonnie would tell Shane that Damon and Elena have a sire bond, and why Shane would randomly bring this up to Elena. Because that was weird. I thought it was weird and had a small moment of 'huh? why? what?' when the scene first aired, and it was only putting this all together that it clicked.

It also explains the inconsistencies, and why and when they do and don't track. For instance, it would make sense that Shane would have to input a simple command that would help sell the sire bond such as "obey Damon's direct orders"). This is exactly what Damon says to her: "You're gonna go home. I'm gonna stay here with Jeremy, I'm gonna help him complete the mark, I'll teach him how to hunt, I'll protect him, and we'll kill vampires without you. I'm setting you free Elena. This is what I want. This is what will make me happy." Other than saying he and Jeremy will "kill vampires without you," the only direct command to her is "you're gonna go home." Everything else is "I." It's about what he's going to do, how he's going to react, not a direct command to her. If Elena decides that she wants to be with Damon still (which I expect based on Stefan's line to her in the promo for the next episode), that explains that too. Yuppers. No sire bond for Elena. :)

Moving on and we're going bullet points tonight...

- I said that last week's episode had the best opening shot ever. This week had the best opening line ever: "This would be so much more fun if we were naked." Hee! Oh, Damon. How I love you so.

- Klaus and his pretty, abstract snowflake painting. And I love how both Caroline and Stefan saw the same thing. BECAUSE THEY ARE MEANT TO BE! No, seriously, they so are. We've got Caroline turning to, confiding in, siding with Stefan, and vice versa. They are providing emotional support for one another, keeping tabs on each other. (Much how things started to grow and progress to the state of true love beauty that Damon and Elena are ensnared in.) I'm getting a really, really good feeling about these two now, and hoping in a way I only did before with the slightest expectation of it really happening. Now? I'm growing more confident (and squeeful!) by the episode that Stefan and Caroline are it. :D

- Another pair that I adore so heartily that made me full of the FEELS galore tonight was Jeremy and Damon! Oh my! When Damon and Elena drove up, Jeremy said "they shouldn't have come." Not "she shouldn't have come," meaning he didn't want to hurt/try to kill Elena only, but "they shouldn't have come," including Damon as a vampire he didn't want to hurt/try to kill. SO MANY FEELS! That just kept growing. Jeremy being totally cool from get-go one to Damon being there (as in not being pissy or snitty about it at all). Damon coming up with the solution to create a detour and Jeremy easily waiting to see what Damon's idea was. Damon stepping forward when testing the detour as the vampire that Jeremy could try and kill, and Jeremy handing the stake to him.

And, and, and, and... let me repeat that speech of Damon's for an entirely different reason: "I'm gonna stay here with Jeremy, I'm gonna help him complete the mark, I'll teach him how to hunt, I'll protect him, and we'll kill vampires..." OH. MY. GOD! ALL THE DAMON/JEREMY FEELS IN THE UNIVERSE HERE!! And based on the preview... is that Matt?! Is that Matt that Jeremy is practice-fighting with? While Damon watches? Am I going to actually get at least one (possibly more) scenes with Damon, Jeremy and Matt?!?!? BE STILL MY BEATING HEART THAT BEATS RAPIDLY WITH JOY AND GLEE!!!

- Speaking of... Matty! Missed you, my bb! Not much of him, but I did like what we got, mostly because it really showed how beautifully they are layering things this season (which also gives credence to my theory that there is simply no way they are being this sloppy about the sire bond inconsistencies). That whole sequence with April, Caroline (OMG! HAYLEY SNAPPED HER NECK! WHOAH!), Matt and eventually Rebekah (!!!) was made of so much awesome win.

We had episode 03 create a bond of sorts between April and Rebekah, episode 05 where April was looking for a staked Rebekah, and then later Jeremy gave April the bracelet which freed her from compulsion. A few episodes later, there was 07 where Matt stepped up to the plate for April at the Miss Mystic Falls pageant thus becoming her knight in shining armor (which Caroline noticed). That is why when Caroline ran into Matt it made perfect sense that she mentioned April to him... which led to him telling her about the vervain bracelet. This was all a wonderfully laid-out chain of events that played to perfection tonight. Because of the April/Rebekah tentative friendship, the vervained bracelet, April looking for Rebekah, her hearing Caroline specifically mention exactly where Rebekah was, it then made perfect sense as to why April was there at the end to free Rebekah. (Because she will. To which I say:


- And maybe, just maybe I'll get more Matt/Rebekah scenes? Because I miss them and I love them. But, hey, at least I got some Jeremy/Bonnie lovelies tonight. Aww. Damon helping to push those two kids back together, Jeremy's sweet, shy smile, how Bonnie was so there for him, just the every way they looked at one another and were with one another. Oh, please, please give me back my sunshine and rainbows, hearts and puppies couple! PLEASE! :D

- Other duos tonight? Well, there's Klaus, Caroline and champagne (trio?). I'm torn here. Candice Accola and Joseph Morgan do have chemistry, but damn, it's still annoying how Caroline talks of Damon as the pure EVUL, but Klaus she feels for. I know, I know, and I do believe it is so going somewhere. In fact, I was even talking to kalishaka the other day and I said that I wondered if this was leading up to Klaus doing something awful that would help serve as a wake-up call. Now, I don't think tonight was actually it because (a) I just don't think Caroline will feel the hybrids as this huge loss but she'll continue to see them as abstract deaths that don't affect her (ala Chris the Hybrid, and all the kills she thinks he made, as opposed to her BFF, over the summer with Stefan), and (b) how Klaus killed Carol will probably be chalked up to an accident and thus not on him. But I think it very well may have been a precursor (to Klaus killing Tyler?! Please?! Sorry, Michael.) to that something too awful for Caroline.

- Seriously, I cannot believe that someone in this motley crew is finally acknowledging that the biggest bad may have done horrible things, but that they have ALL done horrible things, so it's OK to feel sorry for that big bad and get that they aren't only horrible. Too bad that those two talking about it aren't willing to afford that same sentiment to Damon, but instead Klaus. KLAUS! *sigh* I gripe, but I still have faith this is all leading somewhere with regards to Damon.

- I am sad. I was so hoping Tyler would die. And, man, they were setting it up so beautifully and then Tyler couldn't find Carol and I was all "damnit!, Klaus is going to kill Carol!" And he did! But more on that later. I don't hate Tyler. I don't even dislike him. And I like Michael Trevino, I just don’t feel that he's a strong enough actor to hold up against everyone else in the cast, even recurring at this point (except for the continually-proving-she's-just-not-that-good Phoebe Tonkin. Why couldn't it have been Alyssa Diaz (Kimberley) that was cast as Hayley? She's so much better than Tonkin. Oh, right, because Phoebe was soooo good on The Secret Circle. Ugh. Getting the best (and oftentimes only decent) lines and delivering them with sass does not equal great acting. And that lack of great acting *really* stands out on this show. Even amongst the recurring like freaking David Alpay. Shane just gets more and more awesome in every episode. He appears sincere and charming and yet comes across as shady and menacing at the same time. Such a great, great casting job here. Love him so hard.

- I also loved Stefan pretty damn hard in this episode. I felt for him through the whole thing, and *really* felt for him when Caroline couldn't even look at him when he kept repeating "how together?" even though he already knew at that point and he just wanted her to disabuse him of that knowledge. With Caroline (always a win!), with Klaus, being alpha-d up with Tyler, phoning it up with Damon, he was awesome. I love Stefan like this. (We'll just ignore the totally jerky it's-all-about-me attitude from the promo, mmkay?)

- Klaus on a murderous rampage... oh boy! Klaus slaughtering hybrid after hybrid after hybrid and so on and so forth to "O Holy Night," and then drowning a drunk Carol Lockwood to a ghostly version of "Have Yourself a Merry Christmas" was all kinds of wrong. So very, very, very wrong. And so VERY, VERY, VERY awesome. SO FREAKING AWESOME! That was some sickly-twisted, beautifully-poetic work on display tonight. And I am bummed about Carol (way more than I would have been about Tyler). Susan Walters is a great actress who has done this "small" part incredible justice. She went out on a beautifully acted note. (And I'm so glad it wasn't Liz! Sorry, Carol.)

- Finally, Damon and Elena... First of all, the obvious... dangit, no Damon licking Elena's throat in the episode from the promo. *sigh* Ah well. I won't complain too much considering what we got in episode 07 and episode 08. And once I got the confusion about the why of the over-the-topness of the sire bonding scene on the pier (they're really laying it on thick where they can to sell the lie to the audience so that we get the rug pulled out from under us when the reveal comes), I loved all of their stuff... if not in the purely prurient way I did in the previous two episodes. I enjoyed their opening scene for a number of reasons. Firstly, I just loved them lying on the bed, mostly mirroring each other's poses both times.

   

(Hah, look at those grumpy faces in the second one! Damn you, Stefan, Caroline (Klaus and Shane)!) I also really loved how honest and open they were with each other. How they're still THEM, still Damon and Elena and how they act with one another, the snarking, Damon's cynicism against Elena's lightness. And they still talk, they still discuss things, back and forth, their sexual relationship (sadly, now on hold) has not changed how they are so real with one another. *sigh* I love that, and it just wasn't present in this scene, but in the others as well. However, before I move on... damn, how can a couple who are a couple in real life and who just shared back-to-back ridiculously steamy sex scenes still have *this* much chemistry?!

  

Seriously. Come on now. DAYUM! SO MUCH CHEMISTRY!!!

Ahem, moving on. So we had Damon giving into Elena (going with her to the lake house), Damon casually threatening to kill someone in front of Elena (while holding an axe no less). There was Damon not pretending to be some white-hat guy just because of the shift in their relationship, and Elena still playing the 'let's sing Kumbaya and all get along' card with a snarky Damon. Yeah, totally still them, not watered down, not sugared up, not a carbon-copy of Elena's past relationships. They are still Damon and Elena. And they continue to be so obviously THE couple.

I mean, how in any way is Damon not being painted as the one for her? The one who loves her wholly, completely, selflessly, unconditionally? He is her one. Totally. He didn't "invoke" the sire bond the night before, but he also didn't in any way take advantage of Elena after he found out about it (being a gentleman and all, aww). He wants her to get the cure so she can be normal and happy even if it means losing her, as opposed to Stefan who wants the cure for her so she will be his girlfriend again (or so he believes). Damon wants her to love him, he wants it to be real, and if it's not, by God, he's going to do right by her (and his brother who is not taking Damon's feelings and heartbreak into consideration AT ALL, oh, Stefan). And, of course, forces are conspiring against him to make him believe it's not real, even though Elena is standing before him begging him to desperately accept that for her, yes, what she feels is real. And it is, and the sire bond is not.

There are so many instances where we've seen the sire bond in play, as recently as Damon with Charlotte, and how Elena reacted to Damon's order was so unlike the others. She had this perturbed look on her face during most of her goodbye to him where she just knew that this was not right. Her mind was telling her one thing, but her body was telling her another. That is NOT how the sire bond works, we've been explicitly shown that. Your mind and your body are in concert. It's your emotions that get effected, that feel what they want to feel. Think of Tyler and Caroline when Klaus told him to bite her. Tyler's words said that he wouldn't do it, but his mind and body were in sync.

He was shocked when he bit her. His mind didn't think it was wrong what he was doing, it was his emotional reaction that was off. Elena's mind was not in agreement with her body. This sudden shift TO OBEY is never how it's been seen or described as feeling before. It just is. It's a natural response to your sire telling you to do something. Not an unnatural response that your body fights. Above, I mentioned how the only thing that Damon specifically ordered Elena to do was to go home -- and THAT is what her body was telling her to do. Damon also said: "I'm setting you free" which WOULD fall under the confines of the sire bond order/suggestion, but not a hypnotic suggestion to obey a direct command to her. And, whaddya know? An Elena who was supposedly "set free" by Damon kissed him goodbye. Yeah. See her perturbed look? And for fun, the kiss goodbye. :)

   

Finally, to add one more point to my whole SHANE DID IT! theory... what was the point of Damon not "setting her free" in the previous episode or even at the top of this one? If it was just for cliffhanger purposes, then it would have been done at the beginning of the episode. Instead, it was dragged out throughout the entire show where nothing happened that we didn't already know (Elena was here with Stefan in the past, she was all into him then, Damon brings alcohol with him wherever he goes, Elena thinks it's real, Damon fears it isn't real, Damon is making her happy, Damon selflessly loves her). Nothing happened that in any way changed what we, as viewers, already knew about Damon and Elena. Nope, nothing happened... except Shane was there with his hypno-herbs, hypnotic skill and knowing all about the sire bond in between the end of the last episode and this one. Uh huh.

RANDOM STUFFIES...

- Go show. I was thinking they might forget that Damon had already been invited into the lake house (in 3.15), but they didn't. Yay. :)

- There were just some really, really stand-out lines tonight. Of course, there are generally plenty of great lines, but tonight, there were just a magnificent zingers all over the place. Kudos to the writers Julie Plec and Michael J. Cinequemani.

- Whee! See, Bonnie doesn't hate Damon anymore. She was pretty Zen with him being there and even told Caroline (the biggest Damon-hater so it would make sense that Bonnie would even start with the negative before dialing back) that Damon wasn't being that horrible. Yay!

- Seriously, I haven't posted/completed the chapters yet, but I swear that I have Jeremy say almost the exact same things in my fic that he did during his 'kill Elena' speech. Plus, Stefan/Caroline have a bonding moment over not hating Klaus even when they should. FOR REALS, YA'LL! There are so many little things, exact things, and vague-but-close-enough things in my fic that are happening this season that only my beta-readers will believe me at this point since I haven't posted/finished it yet.

- Whoo! Boy! Jeremy looked scrumptious in his tight, white tank. Yummy! Speaking of yummy, thank you, show, for the random shirtlessness of Damon. The point of exchanging one shirt for the other didn't make much sense without anything else going on there, so I'll just take what Ian-nudity I can get and be happy. And I am. :)

- Psst! sarcasticcheese, it wasn't going to be long until the Shane-thingie hit me. I swear!

- I'm sure many of you noticed this, but for those who didn't... hee! Normally, a blood drops from the "V" in the end title card. Not so tonight. :)


KLAUS' EXISTENTIAL, SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE! Awwwww. :)

So there we go, the first half of season 04. While I enjoyed the first three episodes, and the narrative, if not the direction of the fourth, and really liked episode 05 a LOT, episodes 06 through 09 were pretty spectacular all around. Much, much love. I love my show! I love my show! I love my show! SO HARD. But alas, that's all for 2012. See you next year! :D
 
 
 
x5vale: does it feel wrong?x5vale on December 14th, 2012 11:16 am (UTC)
Agreed on everything you said about the sire bond (linking this post if you don't mind), so if it is there it's not even important.

While I can understand Stefan's reaction, who felt like he was betrayed by his brother and Elena (normal reaction imo), I can't really deal with Caroline one. She is trying her best to put Stefan against Damon.She should try to fix things, not breaking bonds, if she really wants the best for Stefan.

Not liking her at all right now. Not even around Tyler, because actually he should be the person she cares the most about and she was ready to be on Stefan side. Not fair.

Liked Bonnie, Jeremy and whoever else in this episode!

Arabian: Caroline02arabian on December 14th, 2012 11:23 am (UTC)
Of course, you can link, that's fine. :)

The only reason I'm not down on Caroline overall is because I do think this really is leading somewhere re: Klaus, Damon and Elena. As for her and Tyler, I think she should be on his side if she truly loves him like she claims to, but frankly, I've never ever bought it. It always felt more like something Caroline said because she wanted to... Tyler has always seemed the one who was in love whereas with Caroline it was friends with benefits that due to the crazy of the situation was upgraded to love because it *should* have been rather than that she actually feels it.

She should try to fix things, not breaking bonds, if she really wants the best for Stefan.

Well, they are patterning her after Lexi right now and that was certainly how Lexi operated when it came to the brothers.
(no subject) - x5vale on December 14th, 2012 11:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 14th, 2012 09:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
jamdourado: pic#118144941jamdourado on December 14th, 2012 12:55 pm (UTC)
I loved everyone on this episode, even Tyler *I'm shocked*

Let me start fangirling over Jeremy, OMG, it's good to see Bonnie and Jer going back to how they used to be, they deserve some happiness. And there was so much Gilbert feelings, I was hoping for Jer blaming Elena for the deaths of his loved ones for a long time, it was so heartbreaking because deep down Elena blames herself and having her brother saying this out loud is so sad. Glad he is back to loving her.
And Deremy, I love their dynamic and next episode we'll have more of that, Damon will be helping Jer and Matt might be there too, THIS SHOW IS TRYING TO KILL ME!!!!

I actually liked Tyler a lot this episode, maybe because he wasn't taking Stefan's bullshit, but he was pretty awesome and I got Lockwood family feelings, another orphan in Mystic Falls

OK, this is the first episode I loved stefan/caroline's scenes, they are so good together, and I loved when she confided in him about Tyler's plan and supported him at the end, even if she told about DE, please Care dump Tyler and have a june wedding with Stefan. My love for them is back!

Klaus was awesome, from the lonely, misunderstood boy to mass murderer, that scene was awesome!!! And christmas song on the back was gold.

I already miss DEx, but the opening scene was so cute, Damon regretting being the good guy, then we have them challenging each other, "I want to throw you back in my bed and never let you leave" "So do it", oh the thick sexual tension.
And the part he is alone smiling just because she is finally on good terms with her brother and she waves at him to join the family moment!!! Oh my shipper heart!!
I do hope this sire bond is fake, as much as it's awesome seeing Elena proving her love for Damon, I don't like to think that the reason she was having fun after feeding on the frat party or killing Connor was because of Damon, please show don't take this away from me. And it's better than having them finding a cure for this bond. Although I don't know how they'd will explain Shane hypnotizing Elena without Damon hearing it.
Arabian: Damon & Jeremy01arabian on December 14th, 2012 09:55 pm (UTC)
Really thrilled to see Jeremy and Bonnie bonding (as opposed to sire bonding, LOL) again. It's just great to witness. And, of course, any time I get Jeremy and Damon interaction I'm thrilled.

Glad that Stefan/Caroline are starting to break through for you. I really do get where things are coming from with them, even if it's misguided.

I just don't see how the bond is not fake at this point, but I have no problem with Elena trying to fight through it. :)

Although I don't know how they'd will explain Shane hypnotizing Elena without Damon hearing it.

Vampires don't have the super-hearing on all the time (if so, no secret would be safe in this town, remember Stefan was standing close to Klaus/Hayley, he just wasn't focused on listening). You have to be focused to hear what's going on and unless Damon was around Elena every second, he wouldn't have heard Shane with Elena. And we know that there were definitely times when Damon was not with Elena (or Shane).
Donnaladyofjest on December 14th, 2012 01:27 pm (UTC)
Re: your points against the sire bond being an actual thing, I'd also like to add that Klaus brought up the fact that he can compel vampires in this episode. Who's to say he didn't pay Elena a little visit and compel her to act as if sired to Damon and forget that he did so?
Arabian: Rebekah03arabian on December 14th, 2012 09:56 pm (UTC)
I'd also like to add that Klaus brought up the fact that he can compel vampires in this episode. Who's to say he didn't pay Elena a little visit and compel her to act as if sired to Damon and forget that he did so?

Very good point. I don't think they'll go there because that would be a tad convoluted even for this show, but I can see that certainly coming into play at some point, the whole Originals compelling vampires. Uh huh.
bangel_4e: delenakiss2bangel_4e on December 14th, 2012 01:31 pm (UTC)
Your theory about the (nonexistent) sire bond is very interesting...You connected some serious dots..I would've never thought about it.
But if there's no sire bond...why would Julie Plec talk about it several times as if it does exist? As if it's an obstacle? Would she play with words even though she knows it's not there?
I don't know if the sire bond doesn't exist...for now, I'm more prone to believe it is real.
The more I think about all this, the more I wanna see what's gonna happen..without fear.

THE KLAUS SCENE SLAUGHTERING EVERYONE..HOW AWESOME WAS THAT??? I know it's wrong on some level but it was just freaking perfect with the christmas music...ahh, what a wonderful scene. And he killed Carol..seriously, I don't care much about her. I just wanna see others' reaction to this.
Especially,as you mentioned, the Caroline/Klaus implications. It strongly amuses me that she keeps judging Damon and yet she flirts (remember last ep) with Klaus. I would love to see these two together but as now, the possibility seems to be SO far away, SO SO MUCH.

Now, let's talk about Delena...I just love them so much this episode. They still have a crazy intimacy without the sex and every scene they're in...it shows how real is what they have...but of course Damon has a hard time believing it..and I do understand that.

What I don't understand...I may be a little stupid here..is..the witch said the sire bond is there cause of the feelings ELENA HAD BEFORE TURNING. The sire bond just amplified them. SO...I understand the sire could be a problem of orders/free will and sex and stuff (that I get) BUT WHY THEY CAN'T RECOGNIZE ELENA'S FEELINGS ARE REAL? They bond is there in the first place cause of her feelings...seriously, I can get Damon could be a little bit iffy about things even with this proof but why isn't it clear to everyone? Damn it.

Stefan...uhm..Stefan...honestly, I get that he was heartbroken but uhm...didn't he expect it? I think he was a little naive...and judging from the promo for next episode, he's hurting a lot. I can understand that...but it looks like Elena might twist the knife, right? I hope we won't get some teary scene with Stelena cause that would be just blah.

The rest: LOVED JEREMY...OMG I HAVE SO MANY FEELS FOR THIS MAN...poor sweetie. And him with Bonnie...awwww. Seriously, I loved Jer with Anna but I also liked him with Bonnie. Even though I don't really care about her, she's been better lately..especially giving Damon some credit (NOT LIKE STEROLINE UGH).
April went to Rebekah...interesting. I wanna see some Rebekah/Matt scenes for God's sake!!


Arabian: Damon & Elena23arabian on December 14th, 2012 10:04 pm (UTC)
Shane/Klaus as the sire bond creator-theory just makes perfect sense and explains ALL the inconsistences.

But if there's no sire bond...why would Julie Plec talk about it several times as if it does exist? As if it's an obstacle? Would she play with words even though she knows it's not there?

You just said the key thing yourself "as if it's an obstacle." An obstacle can be overcome, if Elena is sired to Damon, as presented, it will always be an obstacle. It can only become overcome if it's proven false. And that's what I've taken from her interviews, she talks about the sire bond affecting things in one breath, and then in the next, talks about 'if it's real.' The "it" presumably is Elena's feelings, but we ALREADY know those are real, therefore the "it" is the sire bond. So she's being sneaky, but you can read between the lines that she's acknowledging the sire bond might not be real.

For now, though, she is going to present it as such as it's being presented on the show, just as she did for the sun and moon curse. Because the reveal isn't ready yet.

BUT WHY THEY CAN'T RECOGNIZE ELENA'S FEELINGS ARE REAL?

Because everyone (ironically except for Stefan and Caroline at certain points) would NEVER acknowledge it. Elena was constantly in denial beyond "caring for Damon like a friend" and once Stefan came back into the picture, Damon pulled back, convinced that he'd never even really had a shot. Then Elena supposedly chose Stefan which confirmed what Damon believed. So, Elena was denial-girl and Damon bought her denials, so neither would admit or could believe the feelings were there and real BEFORE the recent events.
(no subject) - bangel_4e on December 14th, 2012 10:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 14th, 2012 10:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Florencia: DE (4x08)florencia7 on December 14th, 2012 02:39 pm (UTC)
I knew you'd make me feel all happy about this episode ♥ ♥ ♥ I don't know why, but very often, even with the episodes that I come to absolutely adore 12 hours after I watch them, right after I watch them I feel like I was punched in the face lol But you ALWAYS remedy that :]

OMG THIS IS SO BRILLIANT *insert a LET ME LOVE YOU gif here* I absolutely love the idea of Klaus and Shane working together! It makes such perfect sense! It must be true!

There was that line Klaus had in 4x07: “It will all make sense eventually.” When he was talking with Caroline about Damon & Elena. It always felt to me like an awkward/odd line, because a) it didn't feel like he meant the sire bond here, b) it didn't feel like he meant that Damon and Elena truly love each other, c) it didn't feel like he meant that Elena loved Damon before she turned, and YET it kind of seemed to imply all these things now that we're looking back at that scene in the sire bond context. However, correct me if I'm wrong, but the word “eventually” doesn't really click with any of this, because it implies something final, a final reveal that must be bigger than some thought that would pop into Caroline's mind whenever. It seems to me that the moment when “it will all make sense” will come at the end of this season. Also, a side note: Caroline can be, technically, compelled by Klaus, right? Not that I think he compelled her (as hard as it is to believe she seems to be shipping SE out of her own free will lol)

I'm trying to keep my Damon/Jeremy feels at bay because... well, I don't know. For some reason I feel like we're headed somewhere dark with this part of the story lol There are just so many little things here and there and also this one potential, pretty, reaching-back-to-2x01 parallel that makes me think that Jeremy might end up killing Damon, after all. (Obviously not permanently, but still ;)

I think Bonnie being Jeremy's anchor in all this is quite a “clever” idea, because we know for sure that Shane is a) shady, b) has the power to hypnotize Bonnie, so she isn't exactly the safest insurance package out there, is she?

I really liked the fact that it got acknowledged that they all have done horrible things, but then the feeling evaporated somehow when Stefan proclaimed that the difference was that they had a family they could trust. At that point the entire concept just kind of fell apart for multiple reasons lol

Tyler is a survivor, eh? *sigh* lol I'm sad about Carol, but a) I would've been sadder about Liz, b) considering that Shane's planning on bringing back the dead among other things, maybe we haven't seen the last of Carol yet? ;)

I loved Damon/Elena/Shane scenes. I just really, really like them all together, they have some kind of an awesome acting chemistry, not sure how to name it haha I just like how they interact/talk/look and all. It's fun and interesting and great to watch and I'm hoping for more. Also, I find it interesting – and a little bit alarming in a good, plot-related way ^^ - that Shane has so many scenes with Damon and/or Elena (and literally none with Stefan) and even though he's a brand new character he already managed to: publicly call them out on secret in-class shenanigans (4x04), see them come to a party together (4x04), walk in on Elena and Caroline talking about Damon (4x07), interrupt one of the most important Damon/Elena moments EVER (4x07), mention her relationship with Damon to Elena (4x09), walk in on Damon and Elena being alone together and talking about him (4x09). It all seems to be backing up your sire bond hoax theory, but I also can't help thinking that Shane will pose some SERIOUS problem for DE later on, possibly cause them to end up apart, for whatever reason, by the end of this season?
Arabian: Damon & Elena26arabian on December 14th, 2012 10:08 pm (UTC)
Yes, Shane/Klaus just makes PERFECT, PERFECT sense. It explains EVERYTHING. And re: Klaus and the "eventually," you have an interesting point there, hmmm.

Also, a side note: Caroline can be, technically, compelled by Klaus, right? Not that I think he compelled her (as hard as it is to believe she seems to be shipping SE out of her own free will lol)

Yes, she can, but I have wondered if maybe he injected a little something to push the theory along during the champagning. :)

Jeremy might end up killing Damon

Which I'm fine with because he will come back from and then Jeremy and Damon will be even. :)

I also can't help thinking that Shane will pose some SERIOUS problem for DE later on, possibly cause them to end up apart, for whatever reason, by the end of this season?

Could be, because, yeah, I didn't notice that, but you're right. Shane sure is a part of their story for someone who shouldn't be at all. Hmmm.
Florencia: DE (Kiss) (4x08)florencia7 on December 14th, 2012 02:40 pm (UTC)
[part 2]

DE chemistry is still insane, yes ♥ I loved this first scene. I love how we're getting ALL the scenes. We got a happy & hot, clothes-off morning after. Now we get a sweet & sad, clothes-on morning of them just waking up together, after spending a night just being near each other. And it's true with everything. With their kisses (we got a kissing attempt followed by a slap, a forced kiss, a death-bed kiss, a gentle kiss with Damon starting it, a breathtaking make-out session initiated by Elena, and then 4x07 in all its glory lol). It's true with blood-feeding: we had Damon force-feeding Elena his blood in S1 and then doing the same thing again in S2 but for a dramatically different reason, and then we got 4x02). It's like... they're giving us every possible version of every possible element of DE story. And I'm loving every moment of it, every single parallel & callback & I'm SO thrilled for everything that's yet to come (like ILY from Elena! ♥)

& The good-bye kiss! It was beautiful & totally heartwarming ♥ Especially compared with the last SE kiss that happened in 4x05. I remember at that point I didn't dare to dream about SE break-up so soon & all that & yet it did feel like their last kiss, the way it was shot, with Stefan zooming out of the room before Elena opened her eyes and when she opened them there was that look in her eyes, almost as if he had never been there, as if what happened was not real. (And to add more symbolism to it, Damon was present in the room with them, laying unconscious but still ;). I remember thinking that it was the last time SE would ever kiss. Well, it's been only several episodes, but so far so good lol On the “not real” note yet... There is the 3x22 flashback theory out there that says that Damon technically compelled Elena to fall in love with Stefan, so technically SE was never real ;)

”I was thinking they might forget that Damon had already been invited into the lake house (in 3.15), but they didn't.” - haha I was totally thinking the same thing! But yay, Julie IS watching her own show, so all's well ;D

”Stefan/Caroline have a bonding moment over not hating Klaus even when they should. FOR REALS, YA'LL!” - YES! That was my first thought while watching this. I was loling SO HARD at this ^^ Go you! And don't worry. If you ever decide to take it all to court, you have loyal witnesses here ;)

I ♥ this post, as always & I'm looking forward to reading all of your TVD-related posts during the hiatus, because you will be writing them, right, RIGHT??? ♥
Arabian: Damon & Elena25arabian on December 14th, 2012 10:11 pm (UTC)
I love how we're getting ALL the scenes. We got a happy & hot, clothes-off morning after. Now we get a sweet & sad, clothes-on morning of them just waking up together, after spending a night just being near each other. And it's true with everything. With their kisses (we got a kissing attempt followed by a slap, a forced kiss, a death-bed kiss, a gentle kiss with Damon starting it, a breathtaking make-out session initiated by Elena, and then 4x07 in all its glory lol). It's true with blood-feeding: we had Damon force-feeding Elena his blood in S1 and then doing the same thing again in S2 but for a dramatically different reason, and then we got 4x02). It's like... they're giving us every possible version of every possible element of DE story. And I'm loving every moment of it, every single parallel & callback & I'm SO thrilled for everything that's yet to come (like ILY from Elena! ♥)

Yup, yup, yup. This, this, this. ALL OF THIS.

Go you! And don't worry. If you ever decide to take it all to court, you have loyal witnesses here ;)

I swear, if I ever visit the set, I'm printing out the whole thing and showing Julie so she can see that OBVIOUSLY, I should be writing for this show.

I'm looking forward to reading all of your TVD-related posts during the hiatus, because you will be writing them, right, RIGHT??? ♥

Well, off the top of my head, I have to do the gifs and icons for 4.08-4.09, the central character write-ups (only 4.09 is left to write). The sire bond is not real post. So, uhm, yeah. That's just all I have planned for now. :)
Vickie: Ian - Damon Really Nowsarcasticcheese on December 14th, 2012 03:10 pm (UTC)
Short post. *giggle*

When are you going to learn that you just cannot make a short post about TVD episodes?

*CACKLES WILDLY*
Arabian: Damon13arabian on December 14th, 2012 10:12 pm (UTC)
If you take out all the Shane-theory stuff, it's not nearly as long as most of my TVD-ep posts. Really. I mean, this one is actually under 4,000 words and that includes the Shane-theory stuff. Uh huh.

So there.

(Using my Damon-made icon against me. Pfft!)
(Anonymous) on December 14th, 2012 05:03 pm (UTC)
Did anyone else pick up on the theme of Damon telling Elena how much it bothered him to hurt Stefan? Maybe she's just faking it by telling him how different she feels - you know, letting him have this experience of being the 'good-guy' & breaking this 'so-called-sirebond', because she wants him to be happy and what would make him happy is to repair his relationship with his brother, just like what happened to her in this episode with Jeremy. I thought she was being really selfless with him, and that's what that whole scene was about - wanting Damon to be happy even at the cost of her own happiness.
Arabian: Damon & Elena15arabian on December 14th, 2012 10:14 pm (UTC)
Hmm, that's an interesting theory and I love the idea behind it, but I can't see Elena doing that just because it's Damon and they don't lie to each other. Anyone else, I could see her doing it. She keeps secrets to protect people, help people, but she and Damon do have this wonderfully healthy pretty truthful relationship.
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on December 15th, 2012 04:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 15th, 2012 04:59 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on December 15th, 2012 05:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 16th, 2012 04:19 am (UTC) (Expand)
hotarujazz: hands and dance 4x07hotarujazz on December 14th, 2012 06:20 pm (UTC)
Okay, I am still torn about the sire bond thing but I am fine with how the storyline is progressing either way. I won't even talk about Delena because I have no words. At this point, I will lose any faith in love if Delena doesn't end up end game or if Nina and Ian break up (does every imaginable curse breaking superstition out there).
I'm sorry but I hate Stefan and Caroline. I ship them together but I hate the kind of people they are and how they treat those who they are supposed to love the most. I just don't like giant hypocrites and people who need to constantly put someone else down to feel worthy. I don't like that kind of people in real life and I don't like thaT kind of characters. I soooo hope Elena will be brutal with him in next episode!!!
Klaus, I loved, Deremy I adored, April I'm starting to like!!! Tyler grew on me so much that I don't want him dead but Phoebe Tonkin needs to get some acting classes or die. She is so severely lacking in acting chops as opposed to rest of this cast.
Bonnie, I looove and have always been at least understanding of her character. She is in some serious plot this season and I'm liking it!!!
The Delena situation is painful now, the hiatus is painful!!!! How am I going to survive wondering about next episode for a month?!?
Arabian: Damon & Elena23arabian on December 14th, 2012 10:17 pm (UTC)
The sire bond is so not real. So not real.

RE: Stefan/Caroline, this is why I'm OK with them (aside from the pretty, pretty they make because I am shallow like that).

I get where Caroline is coming from, and I genuinely get that she doesn't get that Stefan needs and loves Damon, nor that Damon needs and loves Stefan. I think it's the same thing with Lexi where she only got Stefan's pissed-off-ness at Damon, and didn't see all the good stuff. The difference is that Stefan is in a better place overall with Damon than Lexi ever saw, and Caroline will have the opportunity to witness that. I mean, remember how shocked Caroline was when Stefan was talking Damon up at the end of 4.08. She's never heard positive stuff about Damon from Stefan before. I do think it's coming, it's just the only thing that narratively makes sense. Right now, she thinks she is being a good friend. She's just so blinded to everything else because of her Damon-issues and Stefan hasn't been fully honest with her about that situation.
(no subject) - hotarujazz on December 14th, 2012 11:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 15th, 2012 12:28 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - hotarujazz on December 15th, 2012 10:32 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 15th, 2012 11:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
wiccabuffy: TVD - Alaric Cheers animatedwiccabuffy on December 14th, 2012 06:46 pm (UTC)
(PART ONE)

Things I loved:

1. Klaus and everything. Klaus being flirty with Caroline one minute and then slaughtering people the next just to remind all those Klaroline shippers that KLAUS IS EVIL! He is the most powerful creature in the world, as he put it, and he would never take "the cure" (if there is one, which I think is a whole other issue entirely). Thank you, show, for again showing the grey lines and all the various levels to the characters and for making Klaus badass evil. His scene with Stefan where he compared the two of them was perfectly written and I loved the look on Paul's face as he realized that Klaus was right. That they were both the same, to some degrees - Stefan simply tries to reject and suppress it.

2. Stefan/Caroline scenes. They were supportive of each other, even if it was for something that didn't work or something they shouldn't have done. Again, the understanding that they, too, have killed was great. I believe it was used in reference to Klaus since most people see him as evil right now -- at the moment, people no longer see Damon as evil, just as selfish. If this was Season One Damon, it would be a different story. But back to Stefan/Caroline, loved them. I actually hope they remain friends because poor Stefan desperately NEEDS one. Without his brother or Elena, who does he really have?

3. April found out everything! And I'm guessing will undagger Rebekah! What does this mean? Originals! Always good. Plus what does this mean to poor April now that she knows the enire town has basically been lying to her? Very interesting story stuff there.

4. King Tyler. Okay, show, I hate you for officially making me LIKE Tyler. Alpha Tyler, take-charge-Tyler, Tyler who is right and snags Stefan & Caroline to keep his revolution going (they don't NEED this "cure", his supposed friends killed one of his pack!). What a great character arc for him FINALLY. Tyler/Klaus stories are what I'm looking forward to, now that he has no pack, no family, and he can't trust his "friends". I HATE YOU TVD FOR MAKING ME LIKE HIM FINALLY. DAMMIT.

5. The killings while pretty Christmas music played in the background. GAH. Well played, guys. Well played. And suitable creepy and bloody. LOVE.

6. Jeremy finally getting a great storyline! (Also hello biceps!). I love that the sibling bonds on this show are the ones that are being tested the most this season. Jeremy/Elena and Stefan/Damon, both are trying to put trust in each other and failing. Both are trying to allow free will and choice (major themes this season) into their lives, and both relationships are failing because of lack of it (or perceived lack of it). VERY interesting.

7. Bonnie going dark, because you know she will thanks to Shane. Lots of potential for that when we come back.
Arabian: Damon13arabian on December 14th, 2012 10:19 pm (UTC)
Other than loving Tyler, I agree with all of this. I can appreciate what they are doing with Tyler's character, but I just don't care enough about the character (mostly due to the acting at this point, which is weird because I do like Trevino, he just doesn't do anything for me as an actor).
wiccabuffy: TVD - Girl Next Door (Nina)wiccabuffy on December 14th, 2012 06:46 pm (UTC)
(PART TWO)


8. Families being torn apart right at the holiday season. Klaus and his hybrids, Klaus and his friendship with Stefan, Stefan/Damon, Tyler and the hybrids, Tyler and his mother.... even friends that are considered family: Elena and Damon, Tyler and Caroline, Tyler and Hayley, the story Shane tells of his own family, too. Everyone is broken right now. Even Jeremy's "fix" and Bonnie's "fix" are temporary ones at best for the big problem they both have with their "fates".

9. Delena in bed together, sleeping. Cute, right? Only I never want cute with these two because that's such a Stelena thing, so the show said, "You got it" and served up some lovely Delena angst at the beginning and end of the show, peppered with Damon saying quite possibly THE HOTTEST THING EVER on this show: "I wanna throw you back in my bed and never let you leave." GUH, just kill me right now. With Elena replying, "So do it" which, as we know, has nothing to do with the sire-bond since love/lust/all those feelings were already there before she became a vampire.

10. Sire-bond. I am actually LOVING this story, and unlike you, I think that it is real. Which for me, just makes it all that much more angsty and fun and dramatic for the actors and characters. I have a feeling there will be a "cure" by the end of the season for it, or a "cure" for needing blood.

11. THE CURE! So, of course, it's not what we thought (which I guessed at long ago). And it still isn't exactly explained since can we trust Shane? No, because Damon said so. Seriously. Shane is probably the best friend of Silas he mentioned or something, or he IS Silas. And he no longer wants to be immortal, or he is going to use the sacrifices to bring his love back from the dead and make her immortal. Something BIG.

12. Stefan and Damon. Their relationship, the way last season was about Stefan giving up Elena for his brother and this season it's switched. Stefan being wrong, Stefan realizing he is wrong, Stefan getting angry (did you notice which chess pieces he first moved before smashing it?). Damon trying to stay away from Elena because he promised his brother, Damon wishing he could have the family that Elena has with Jeremy. Team Salvatore. In terms of "endgame", I think we aren't going to have any romantic endgames. The girls will be dead or happy and alone while Stefan & Damon will finally be the brothers they used to be before Katherine. And as a Delena shipper, that's actually the endgame I prefer. GAH, love these two messed up brothers.


Things I was okay with...

1. Shane is obviously the bad guy, or in cahoots or whatever. I just don't like him as a character quite yet. I've been waiting for him to grow on me and nothing yet - but I do like him being shady and sneaky and working with Hayley, etc.

2. More Matt...? Though I understand in terms of story why there was a lack of Matt in this episode.

Things I wish for...

KATHERINE??? Sigh. One can wish.

Overall, fantastic season and episode, love the themes, love how people have stopped communicating and things are fractured more than they ever have been before. Just love.
Arabian: NinaDobrev08arabian on December 14th, 2012 10:32 pm (UTC)
Ah, families being torn apart at the holidays, You're so right. Yeah. This show.

D/E in bed together, sleeping. Cute, right? Only I never want cute with these two because that's such a S/E thing

This I don't agree with because I don't think that S/E have the domain on cute. One of the main things I love about Damon and Elena is that they are not just one thing relationship-wise. They can be hot, sexy, flirty, funny, antagonistic, angsty, real, natural, serious, and, yes, cute. They are all of the above. When Stefan and Elena weren't angsting (about everything external, even their break-up didn't acknowledge any internal issues in the relationship), they were mostly just cute. Damon and Elena are cute and loads of everything else under the sun. That is what works for me. That's why we can have Damon and Elena lying in bed together being adorably cute, and then in the next second be snarky, then angsty, then hot as hell. Because that's Damon/Elena.

RE: The sire bond. I just don't see how it can possibly be real when there are so many inconsistencies galore. It makes no sense. It's the sun-and-moon curse all over again. So many things about that didn't track, didn't make sense and instead of questioning why it didn't make sense people either hand-waved it away and loved it, or nit-picked at those inconsistencies and called the writers stupid and hated it. Here it's the exact same case. So I'm looking at all of the inconsistencies, seeing what makes sense, what works, and the only thing that makes sense and works is that, like the sun-and-moon curse, it's not real.

However because all the characters believe it's real, we still get this:

[it being real makes] it all that much more angsty and fun and dramatic for the actors and characters.

Which I think is awesome.

Yeah, we can't trust Shane. And he's obviously Silas or the friend. I don't know, but I am intrigued.

RE: Endgame, I disagreed with you over at tvdbloodstream, and I will here as well. I don't see Stefan and Damon as a question of endgame because (a) endgame always applies to the romantic, that's the point of the question in its commonality at this point, (b) Stefan and Damon will be together at the end. That isn't even a question. Which pair is together at the end as a endgame potential is because it's not known. Stefan/Damon, it's not a question. And if Damon does not have Elena at the end, then his entire arc makes no sense. He has to get the girl because for him full acceptance of self has to come not only from family, but from the girl. Stefan, on the other hand, only reaches his full acceptance when he accepts himself completely, he already has had it from family and the girl(s). That is just their journeys. Stefan I can see without a girl (although, I obviously want Caroline), but Damon has to have the girl or his journey isn't complete in the venue of the show.

RE: Katherine. Yes. We always, always need Katherine!

Overall, fantastic season and episode, love the themes, love how people have stopped communicating and things are fractured more than they ever have been before. Just love.

Agreed. :nods:
(no subject) - wiccabuffy on December 15th, 2012 04:48 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 15th, 2012 05:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
eolivet on December 14th, 2012 06:56 pm (UTC)
I'd be curious to see what you think of the latest Julie Plec interview -- which seems to confirm the sire bond is in fact real (though perhaps she did similar interviews about the sun-and-moon curse...?) I just feel like that's too convoluted, even for TVD. I feel like Plec et. al. have created a very real obstacle to D/E (one that bothers me, but oh well). I don't see them being all "Psych!" at the end. But I look forward to your post about it, of course. :)

I enjoyed this ep, though I was mostly really, really, REALLY confused. And I liked the D/E scenes better than I have in two eps -- the two ones you did gifs from were excellent.
Arabian: Damon & Elena24arabian on December 14th, 2012 10:36 pm (UTC)
RE: Julie Plec interviews. Yup, she did similar for the sun-and-moon curse stuff. Which she had to do. Here, what I've taken from her interviews is that she is talking about the sire bond affecting things in one breath, and then in the next, talks about 'if it's real.' The "it" presumably is Elena's feelings, but we ALREADY know those are real, therefore the "it" is the sire bond. So she's being sneaky, but you can read between the lines that she's acknowledging the sire bond might not be real. For now, though, she is going to present it as such as it's being presented on the show, just as she did for the sun and moon curse. Because the reveal isn't ready yet.

I don't think it's convoluted at all. It boils down to Shane and Klaus are working together and came up with an idea that keeps the main players who could throw a cog in their plot otherwise emotionally occupied so they aren't paying attention. That's pretty much it. Everything else is just thrown at the wall to make it stick, like the sun-and-moon curse, thus why it doesn't make sense when you try and reason it all.

The bottom-line is that I just don't see how it can possibly be real when there are so many inconsistencies galore. It makes no sense. It's the sun-and-moon curse all over again. So many things about that didn't track, didn't make sense and instead of questioning why it didn't make sense people either hand-waved it away and loved it, or nit-picked at those inconsistencies and called the writers stupid and hated it. Here it's the exact same case. So I'm looking at all of the inconsistencies, seeing what makes sense, what works, and the only thing that makes sense and works is that, like the sun-and-moon curse, it's not real.


Edited at 2012-12-14 10:37 pm (UTC)
sassy, classy, and a bit smart-assy: TVD: Damon giverbadboy_fangirl on December 14th, 2012 06:59 pm (UTC)
OH JEN.

I love this post, because you verbalize all the impressions and feelings I had while watching the show. It's so obvious to me that Elena is NOT sire-bonded and that Shady Shane hypnotized her like he did Bonnie in that earlier episode. I am so, so, so positive that everything you point out here is true.

And I think it's horribly significant that Caroline was loyal to Stefan and NOT Tyler through this whole thing, and I really love the idea of Stefan/Caroline following the Damon/Elena pattern for a REAL, FUNCTIONING relationship. Because no matter how douchey Stefan is, and believe me, I think he gets worse almost every episode, I do want him to be happy, eventually. Just not with Elena, because they are not a good match, period.

I can't even express how much I love Shane. I mean, he's such a great character, and I cannot decide just how evil he is, or what the deal is with Silas, but I don't trust him at all. But I also don't want Damon killing him just yet. Hee.

I too thought the Klaus Samurai scene was amazing. Just poetic and beautifully shot and horrible. And then CAROL. Ugh. I am so sad about Carol. It's true, though, it would make sense if that means Tyler's days are numbered too. Of course, I've been expecting him to get killed off since S2, so it would be nice if they finally actually did it :D

Overall, S4 is starting off to compare to S1 for me as far as my infinite love for just about every episode. Damon breaks my heart, but that's nothing new. Love him, love him, love him. And of course Stefan will be horrible to him re: the sexytiems and he will be too caught up in his own damage to even consider how difficult this is for Damon. But then, nobody ever thinks about how hard it is for Damon. My favorite part from the preview for the next episode is Jeremy saying: Tell Klaus we're not going to do this his way. Because Damon/Jeremy/secret agendas is my favorite dream!

Good, good, good stuff.

ETA: JEREMY AND BONNIE!! PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE! They are really my other OTP for this show. I want it to work out between them so much.

Edited at 2012-12-14 07:54 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Damon & Elena26arabian on December 14th, 2012 10:46 pm (UTC)
I KNOW, RIGHT!!! (BTW: totally appropos of nothing to do with this post, I meant to respond to your before/after pics -- did not. you look fabulous and I think it's awesome how you're doing!) On with the show.....

so obvious to me that Elena is NOT sire-bonded and that Shady Shane hypnotized her like he did Bonnie in that earlier episode. I am so, so, so positive that everything you point out here is true.

Right! It just makes so much sense. (And if you're up for it/have the time, feel free to give me a call tonight. I'd love to talk it out. Squee!)

And I think it's horribly significant that Caroline was loyal to Stefan and NOT Tyler through this whole thing, and I really love the idea of Stefan/Caroline following the Damon/Elena pattern for a REAL, FUNCTIONING relationship. Because no matter how douchey Stefan is, and believe me, I think he gets worse almost every episode, I do want him to be happy, eventually. Just not with Elena, because they are not a good match, period.

This, this, this. Honestly, as much as I've ♥ ed Stefan/Caroline like nobody's business since episode 02 of season 02, until last week's episode, I never truly 100% was convinced that this was the planned route. While I'm not Damon/Elena convinced, I'm much more leaning towards the fact that, yes, Stefan/Caroline are the planned endgame as well.

I can't even express how much I love Shane. I mean, he's such a great character, and I cannot decide just how evil he is, or what the deal is with Silas, but I don't trust him at all. But I also don't want Damon killing him just yet. Hee.

You're gonna see this a lot-- THIS!!!!!

verall, S4 is starting off to compare to S1 for me as far as my infinite love for just about every episode.

LOL! Or not. Nine episodes in to season 03, I was definitely at this point, but then because I wouldn't even really look at the bigger picture but was stuck on what I expected to happen, I missed a lot of the groundwork they were laying for this season in the second half of season 03. So, we'll see what happens with the rest of the season, LOL! But, yeah, overall, this season is kicking ass so hard.

Damon/Jeremy/secret agendas is my favorite dream!

I honestly am not down at all about the D/E stuff (partially because I so know it is not over, but mostly...) because DAMON/JEREMY FEELS ALL OVER THE PLACE. And if Matty is in the mix too! OH, MY. LORDY!!! YES, PLEASE!! COME TO MOMMA!

Jeremy/Bonnie are just one of my many OTPs on this show (I haz more than one for this show which is so weird for me: Damon/Elena, Stefan/Caroline, Matt/Rebekah, Elijah/Katherine, and Jeremy/Bonnie), so I can't fully agree with your comment... but yes, I loved every moment with them. My sunshine-and-puppies couple, come back to me!
alkja: pic#93120746alkja on December 14th, 2012 10:33 pm (UTC)
I said that last week's episode had the best opening shot ever. This week had the best opening line ever:

Honestly, I liked this one too. Mostly because I was giggling at the return of Creeper!Elena and her established habit of staring gazing at her boyfriends while they're sleeping.
Arabian: Elena05arabian on December 14th, 2012 10:49 pm (UTC)
LOL! Eh, I try to forget any Stefan/Elena romantic moments, so forgot that one. Admittedly, I still liked this opening too, it just wasn't THE best.... as last week was. :)
flyingfish: don't panicflyingfish1 on December 14th, 2012 10:41 pm (UTC)
I'm looking forward to your sire-bond post! :) I DO hate the idea, myself, not because of DE--I have no worries there--but because of Elena's character development, you know? If she were sired, then so many of her most significant character moments this season--killing Connor, drinking blood at the frat party, accepting herself as a vampire, acknowledging her feelings for Damon, etc--would be called into question/rendered practically meaningless because they wouldn't be solely her decisions. She'd be acting under someone else's influence. If that were true, the show would be pullling its punches in the most horrible way, imo just like when Klaus compelled Stefan. If not worse than that, since at least TVD isn't Stefan's coming-of-age story, it's Elena's own. I just can't see the show screwing up the development of its main character like that... or at least I'm desperately hoping it won't.

13.) Klaus tells Stefan that he "intuited" the sire bond between Damon and Elena.

He looks particularly gleeful and pleased with himself in that scene, doesn't he? You can just tell he's thinking, "Hook, line, and sinker!" and giggling inwardly :)

To add to that, something I was thinking to myself earlier... just when did Klaus have the chance to "intuit" anything? I could easily be forgetting something but,as far as I can remember, Klaus has only had a couple of scenes with Elena since she turned, right? The one when he cured her, and the one when she was cursed. Damon wasn't in either of those scenes and I don't think he was even mentioned, so Klaus wouldn't have had any reason to truly suspect a bond.

20.) There are chunks of time not seen at the lake house where Shane and Elena could have had plenty o' conversations, where, oh, say Shane could have used some of his hypnotism-whammo on her to tell Elena to trust him (which she told Damon that she did), and to input some suggestion wherein she would obey Damon's direct commands to her.

OH MY GOD. OF COURSE. I LOVE THIS. *wild applause* That's the one thing I couldn't figure out, but this fits so perfectly. It's the perfect bait-and-switch, where the audience thinks he'll be able to hypnotize her out of the bond while in reality he's hypnotizing her into feeling like she has one! I was thinking that maybe Klaus had compelled her and, while I think it does fit also (and the show helpfully reminded us that he can compel vampires), it runs into the same when did he have the opportunity??? problem from above. This just ties up everything together so well. Whee!

Plus, the fact that she noticed the effects of the "bond" and felt the need to describe them suggests to me that it's an unfamiliar feeling to her.

I'm so happy Rebekah's back! I wonder how April will react? What a way to find out about vampires!

I'll really miss Carol, but I loved seeing Klaus get a chance to be more openly villainous. I've been really enjoying him lately. The question is, what's Shane going to do with the power from the 12 hybrid deaths?

Just a big THIS to your DE thoughts. I couldn't add anything more. They're just as much themselves as they ever were and that makes me happy.
Arabian: Damon & Elena24arabian on December 14th, 2012 10:56 pm (UTC)
I just can't see the show screwing up the development of its main character like that... or at least I'm desperately hoping it won't.

Yeah, I sorta can see where you're coming from here, but even if I did think it was real, which I so don't, I still wouldn't see it this way because we've been told that it's all literal. And there is so much that Elena has done, wanted to do, etc. of her own agency that had nothing to with Damon literally telling her what to do. Did he tell her to kill Connor, yes? Did she want to go after Connor first and save Jeremy using her own strength well before Damon said anything? Absolutely. Just an example.

But... it doesn't matter, because it's so not real. I just don't see how it can possibly be real when there are so many inconsistencies galore. It makes no sense. It's the sun-and-moon curse all over again. So many things about that didn't track, didn't make sense and instead of questioning why it didn't make sense people either hand-waved it away and loved it, or nit-picked at those inconsistencies and called the writers stupid and hated it. Here it's the exact same case. So I'm looking at all of the inconsistencies, seeing what makes sense, what works, and the only thing that makes sense and works is that, like the sun-and-moon curse, it's not real.

He looks particularly gleeful and pleased with himself in that scene, doesn't he? You can just tell he's thinking, "Hook, line, and sinker!" and giggling inwardly :)

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

Klaus wouldn't have had any reason to truly suspect a bond

Exactly. He's so sure of it now because he set it up. Period, LOL!

OH MY GOD. OF COURSE. I LOVE THIS. *wild applause* That's the one thing I couldn't figure out, but this fits so perfectly. It's the perfect bait-and-switch, where the audience thinks he'll be able to hypnotize her out of the bond while in reality he's hypnotizing her into feeling like she has one! I was thinking that maybe Klaus had compelled her and, while I think it does fit also (and the show helpfully reminded us that he can compel vampires), it runs into the same when did he have the opportunity??? problem from above. This just ties up everything together so well. Whee!

RIGHT!?!?!? As soon as this all fell into place, I was reeling at the genius of it all. It's so simple, makes so much sense, explains everything and just works.

Plus, the fact that she noticed the effects of the "bond" and felt the need to describe them suggests to me that it's an unfamiliar feeling to her.

YES!

They're just as much themselves as they ever were and that makes me happy.

Sigh, I know, right. My beautiful, beautiful OTP!
(no subject) - flyingfish1 on December 15th, 2012 12:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 15th, 2012 12:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
Bogwitch: Shrek - Pussbogwitch on December 14th, 2012 11:55 pm (UTC)
Of course, hypnotism! I knew the answer was in front of us the whole time. I do think that run down of events has a lot of characters assuming a lot of others, but Klaus has a lot of experience at this sort of thing and who knows what Shane is.

I haven't actually seen the whole episode properly yet - the stream is awful for picking out subtleties (I couldn't read the text) and then my internet went down before I could get a download - so I might well be back.
Arabian: SC & Klaus01arabian on December 15th, 2012 12:26 am (UTC)
Yup, and we had Damon mention that hypnotism quite a few times.

I do think that run down of events has a lot of characters assuming a lot of others

Not really, it's just Klaus assuming things about others, and Klaus watches and observes and learns. And the things he'd need to know (Damon will accept Elena no matter what, Stefan wants a human!Elena -- which Stefan made clear in 4.04, Stefan and Caroline are close) are not that difficult to figure out at all.

Hope you have luck checking out the whole thing. :)

Edited at 2012-12-15 12:33 am (UTC)
vanimy: Rebekahvanimy on December 15th, 2012 01:13 am (UTC)
PART ONE

This episode felt... weird to me. I loved some things separately but together some things felt.... off, I don't even really know why. Overall I think the episode was pretty good but slightly disappointing compared to the last two.

I think it probably comes from the fact that I hate it when we audience know stuff the characters don't. Like virtually everyone but Damon trusting Shane whole-heartedly while really, by now they should really know better. Like Stefan throwing a tantrum at the exact same time Damon actually lets Elena go (I'm going to rant on Caroline a little bit later on...). Also I think the end wasn't really shocking. The TVD cast/crew shouldn't have teased about a season 1 character dying all week long because it kind of ruined the twist. Although for a while I too thought Tyler would be the one biting the dust. Just in time for me to like him again, bummer. But more on that later.

-Let's start with the Elena being/not being sired to Damon.

That was one of the pet peeves I had after watching the episode. The way she reacted after Damon told her to go home was weird, like she wasn't sired to him at all and then she left anyway, meaning the sire bond was true after all and she didn't even try to fight it. And you know how much I agree with you on the inconsistencies there are about there being a sire bond at all.

Doesn't match up.

So I'm looking forward to your post about the whole thing but I already like where you're going with this.

The Shane thing really feels right, he's definitely working with Klaus since we saw Hayley working with Klaus earlier.

What I caught though is how Shane probably did something to Jeremy. In the scene when Bonnie and Caroline were on the phone we saw Shane kneeling down beside Jeremy. Sure we didn't hear him say anything but I found this too weird. I'm sure he told Jeremy to do something (I was half-expecting Jeremy to kill/stab Damon at the end of the episode because I'm sure Shane would want him to be eliminated, Damon's the only one knowing there's something wrong with Shane....).

- I said that last week's episode had the best opening shot ever. This week had the best opening line ever: "This would be so much more fun if we were naked." Hee! Oh, Damon. How I love you so.

Yeah, I laughed at that one too. Also me loves Elena staring at Damon while he's sleeping. The romantic fool in me approves. And that ray of light on Damon's face? Perfectly shot.

- Re : Stefan/Caroline. Okay I ship it and I also think the writers are going somewhere there if only because of Tyler's reaction when Caroline confided in Stefan. That whole scene really felt like a triangle being set up.

But the last scene kind of ruined my shippy feelings. Because ugh, Caroline.

Alright, I think she was right to blab about Tyler's plan to Stefan. She was awesome when she figured out a new plan and told Tyler (also first time Tyler/Caroline gave me cute feelings in a long time).

But her scene with Stefan at the end? When she told him about Damon being with Elena at the lakehouse?

I wanted to slap her. For real.

Fair enough for her to rant on how much she dislikes the idea of Elena/Damon together. But messing up the relationship between the brothers? Right after Stefan told her the only reason he was different from Klaus was the fact he had family he could trust??

I would've understood had she blurted it out just like with Elena and the sire bond. But the fact she waited a beat before dropping the bomb that Damon hadn't let go of Elena?

I have no words. I hated her at that moment. She had no right to mess up with Stefan and Damon's relationship if only for Stefan's sake who was already depressed about the whole Klaus thing. She could've waited a day or two or whatever.

I think the show really wants me to hate Caroline seriously.
Arabian: Rebekah03arabian on December 15th, 2012 01:34 am (UTC)
virtually everyone but Damon trusting Shane whole-heartedly

Only Bonnie and Jeremy because Bonnie does and now Elena (because she was HYPNOTIZED TO DO SO) are trusting him. Caroline doesn't. Matt doesn't. Tyler doesn't. If Stefan gave two shits about it -- which he doesn't right now because it's not affecting him -- Stefan wouldn't. So, no, not trusting him.

Like Stefan throwing a tantrum at the exact same time Damon actually lets Elena go

Oh, that's a TV-trope from forever though and I expect that Damon is going to clear the air with Stefan pronto, and then Stefan will be at least happy about it then because he thinks Elena will come running back to him but she won't. Then he'll haz a sad!

The TVD cast/crew shouldn't have teased about a season 1 character dying all week long because it kind of ruined the twist.

Which is why I don't read interviews stuff (or have been trying not to) because they do give too much like that stuff away. They really do. I've been saying it since Jenna's death was 'oh, it was her' as opposed to 'OMG! They killed Jenna!' When you tell viewers that people are going to die, viewers are going to speculate so when it happens it just becomes confirmation as opposed to OMG!! I had a feeling someone would die, but didn't know for sure.

The way she reacted after Damon told her to go home was weird, like she wasn't sired to him at all and then she left anyway, meaning the sire bond was true after all and she didn't even try to fight it. And you know how much I agree with you on the inconsistencies there are about there being a sire bond at all. Doesn't match up. So I'm looking forward to your post about the whole thing but I already like where you're going with this.

There are a few more points, but I've basically laid it out here. The inconsistencies and the Shane/Klaus connection, paired with the odd way Elena reacted to Damon telling her to leave.

What I caught though is how Shane probably did something to Jeremy.

Hmm, I saw that, but didn't really think of it. Hmm. If I'm right, that Shane and Klaus are working together, I wonder if Shane plans on double-crossing Klaus and is using Jeremy to do so. Hmm............

Also me loves Elena staring at Damon while he's sleeping.

Hah, I'd forgotten until someone mentioned it, but yeah, that's Elena's thing. She did that to Stefan too, LOL! Oh, Elena, you Edward-wannabe!

I also think the writers are going somewhere there if only because of Tyler's reaction when Caroline confided in Stefan. That whole scene really felt like a triangle being set up

I still think it's more likely to be Stefan/Caroline/Klaus, but that's only if Tyler dies by the end of the season, Klaus/Caroline get closer. We'll see. But yeah, with each passing episode, I'm beginning to believe that S/C are going there. WOOHOO!

But messing up the relationship between the brothers? Right after Stefan told her the only reason he was different from Klaus was the fact he had family he could trust??

Ah, see I didn't read it that way at all. I think she felt terrible, and the only reason she let him know is because she felt that DAMON (and that was understandable considering what she knew) was betraying Stefan-- who was all rah!rah!rah! Damon will do the right thing. She wasn't trying to manufacture a distance between them, she was hurting and felt betrayed for Stefan on his behalf. That's completely different. She couldn't even look at him, couldn't even say the words confirming Damon and Elena being together because of how bad she felt about it.

She could've waited a day or two or whatever.

If she had done that, it would have been calculated. This was all about the pain that she was feeling for Stefan because he was so hopeful about Damon, and as far as she knew, Damon was off betraying Stefan. She was legitimately being a good friend here. That's how I saw it. I felt so much for both of them in that scene.
(no subject) - vanimy on December 16th, 2012 04:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 17th, 2012 05:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on January 5th, 2013 07:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 6th, 2013 05:42 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on January 6th, 2013 08:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 20th, 2013 06:45 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 17th, 2012 05:40 am (UTC) (Expand)
vanimy: Damonvanimy on December 15th, 2012 01:14 am (UTC)
PART TWO

-Did like Stefan's line about how they all did horrible things though. Very true. Also 'how together are they?' and Caroline's silence. Made of win.

-Klaus/Stefan. There's no way the writers weren't giving us something with that 'rippaaaah' line. NO WAY. Also Klaus and Stefan have way too much chemistry, lol, at some point, I was like 'Come on, kiss and make up, guys.' :P

More seriously, is the show hinting at Stefan turning to the dark side and joining Klaus but willingly this time because of a fallout with Damon? Mmh...

-Bonnie/Jeremy/Damon/Elena gave me all the feels this week. The Bonnie/Jeremy moments were so damn cute and made me melt. That whole Damon line about wanting to be anywhere else was so funny too. I also had a lot of Jeremy/Damon feels too. I flailed at the whole 'I'll protect him' aww.

Also Elena/Jeremy, that hug was so touching.

I'm just worried about Jeremy and Shane messing him up though. I have bad feelings about that scene with them in the background and Shane probably messing up with his mind.

-The April thing was nicely done. I totally caught the vervaine bracelet thing as soon as Caroline attempted to compel her then I loved how Matt was there to spill the beans. I was taken by surprise when April went to Rebekah to wake her up. But of course it all made sense. So agreed, everything was really nicely set up.

Ditto on Rebekah being back. About time.

- I am sad. I was so hoping Tyler would die.

LOL. Well Tyler has been pretty awesome two episodes in a row (I still can't believe it lol) so I kind of don't want him to leave anymore. We'll see where the writers are going with his character.

Also AGREED on Phoebe Tonkin. I don't know if it's me but I thought she was even worse in this episode. Usually she is supposed to be just snarky so she did an okay job and could get away with it even if her character was annoying. But in this episode when she was supposed to act a little bit more with her being revealed to be evil, killing Caroline, her betrayal of Tyler and everything... She just acted the same way! Just snarky.

Well, it was awful.

Can Hayley die now? I mean she's no longer useful now the hybrids are dead so...

- I loved Stefan in this episode too. With Klaus, with Damon (he actually asked Damon if he was okay! :o lol) with his feelings of betrayal at the end of the episode. I really loved him too. Also Damon reminiscing about Stefan and Christmas? Oh my, I melted. Flashbacks please???

- Klaus on a murderous rampage... oh boy! Klaus slaughtering hybrid after hybrid after hybrid and so on and so forth to "O Holy Night,"

Well I'm probably the only one lol but I was a little bothered by the music playing while he slaughtered the hybrids. I thought it was too distracting. But Klaus was pretty awesome in a horrible way in that scene. Very ominous and scary and serial killer like (about time..... ahem).

and then drowning a drunk Carol Lockwood to a ghostly version of "Have Yourself a Merry Christmas" was all kinds of wrong.

That moment with the song felt better to me. Also even if I wasn't surprised he killed Carol I was surprised he drowned her. I thought he would rip her heart out or something but no, he drowned her. It was almost a human way to kill her. IDK.

Also yeah I was a little sad for Carol, I mean she was the last decent parent on this show, lol.

Arabian: Damon14arabian on December 15th, 2012 01:41 am (UTC)
There's no way the writers weren't giving us something with that 'rippaaaah' line. NO WAY.

Yup, that's what I'm saying. The Ripper storyline was introduced in season 02 really and the fleshed out in season 03, but I think we're gonna start to get the full story this season and next maybe. Booyah!

I flailed at the whole 'I'll protect him' aww.

I was flailing SO HARD!

She just acted the same way! Just snarky.

Yup, that was my biggest problem with her on The Secret Circle, she played everything snarky. There was no depth or subltety or vulnerability to her performance. And it didn't stand out so much on that show, but on this one? Surrounded by tons of great actors? Yeah, it does.

I was surprised he drowned her. I thought he would rip her heart out or something but no, he drowned her. It was almost a human way to kill her. IDK.

As I mentioned above, I think that was deliberate. No one will know Klaus did it now, instead it will come across as if she was drunk (the coroner will see her blood-alcohol content which we know was very high based on her comments), slipped and drowned in the fountain. An accident. Klaus just wants to take something from Tyler that will start to strip away at him, but he has a bigger plan here.

I mean she was the last decent parent on this show, lol.

Uh, excuse me? SHERIFF LIZ FORBES!!! Just because Caroline doesn't appreciate her, doesn't mean that Liz doesn't love her daughter and hasn't done right by her. Ahem.

Edited at 2012-12-15 01:42 am (UTC)
(no subject) - vanimy on December 16th, 2012 04:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 17th, 2012 04:40 am (UTC) (Expand)
vanimy: D/Evanimy on December 15th, 2012 01:15 am (UTC)
PART THREE

- Finally, Damon and Elena...

Last but not least! ;)

No Damon licking Elena's throat, I noticed it too but I really like how they tried not to have any contact with each other. I wonder if the promo people used unused footage from the love scene from 4x08 and did a montage for the promo you know. The way the scene was written I'm sure Damon and Elena didn't have any contact originally.

That first scene was so beautiful. Damon being a gentleman like we knew he would be. Damon being content to be just with Elena even if he can't touch her then feeling guilty he didn't tell her to leave him the night before in the same breath.

Then all the sexual tension and Elena challenging him like she always does. You are so so right, they're still Damon and Elena, their dynamics haven't changed.

Ditto on the chemistry. *sigh*

Ahem, moving on. So we had Damon giving into Elena (going with her to the lake house), Damon casually threatening to kill someone in front of Elena (while holding an axe no less). There was Damon not pretending to be some white-hat guy just because of the shift in their relationship, and Elena still playing the 'let's sing Kumbaya and all get along' card with a snarky Damon.

I didn't catch that, but oh you're so right again.

He wants her to get the cure so she can be normal and happy even if it means losing her, as opposed to Stefan who wants the cure for her so she will be his girlfriend again (or so he believes).

I loved that scene with him literally sitting outside of Elena's life, still not thinking he deserves to be in her life. Then Elena gesturing him to come inside and when he doesn't, she stands up and joins him in the outside. Such a symbol of their relationship.

That mistletoe thing was so sweet then Damon reminiscing about Stefan and their childhood and then him telling her he wanted her to be happy (and human and normal) and God I loved this scene so much.

- Go show. I was thinking they might forget that Damon had already been invited into the lake house (in 3.15), but they didn't. Yay. :)

LOL I was the one who had forgotten that at first. I was waiting for Jeremy to invite Damon in and then thought he would leave him outside on purpose and then Damon was suddenly inside the house and I was like 'What? When did Jeremy invite in?' And only then did the 3x15 invite click in my mind.

I can be slow sometimes. lol

- Whee! See, Bonnie doesn't hate Damon anymore.

Yeah I saw that too and I was happy about it as well. Also Damon playing the matchmaker for Bonnie and Jeremy? Hehe.

- Whoo! Boy! Jeremy looked scrumptious in his tight, white tank.

Hehe, yeah, Little!Jeremy just turned hot to me. I was surprised. :P

Yummy! Speaking of yummy, thank you, show, for the random shirtlessness of Damon. The point of exchanging one shirt for the other didn't make much sense without anything else going on there, so I'll just take what Ian-nudity I can get and be happy. And I am. :)

You know what? I don't think Damon changing shirt was only there for us fangirls even though yeah, it was for us too, lol. I thought it was a very couply thing to do you know, randomly undressing while talking to his wife Elena. I thought it looked very natural and intimate.
Arabian: Damon & Elena23arabian on December 15th, 2012 01:44 am (UTC)
I wonder if the promo people used unused footage from the love scene from 4x08 and did a montage for the promo you know. The way the scene was written I'm sure Damon and Elena didn't have any contact originally.

Yeah, I think so. Wouldn't have fit anywhere in this episode.

I loved that scene with him literally sitting outside of Elena's life, still not thinking he deserves to be in her life. Then Elena gesturing him to come inside and when he doesn't, she stands up and joins him in the outside. Such a symbol of their relationship.

Yup, why anyone questions why Damon isn't questioning the logistics of the bond hasn't been paying attention to Damon. He believes it because he doesn't believe that Elena could truly want him without something forcing her hand. He just doesn't think he's worth it. Oh, Damon.

Also Damon playing the matchmaker for Bonnie and Jeremy? He

I KNOW!! :D

I don't think Damon changing shirt was only there for us fangirls even though yeah, it was for us too, lol. I thought it was a very couply thing to do you know, randomly undressing while talking to his wife Elena. I thought it looked very natural and intimate.

Good point. But as a fan-girl, I'm still gonna enjoy it. ;)
(no subject) - vanimy on December 16th, 2012 04:22 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 17th, 2012 05:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
La vida de llorona: pic#116559343laudanumdream on December 15th, 2012 03:06 am (UTC)
Klaus on a murderous rampage... oh boy! Klaus slaughtering hybrid after hybrid after hybrid and so on and so forth to "O Holy Night," and then drowning a drunk Carol Lockwood to a ghostly version of "Have Yourself a Merry Christmas" was all kinds of wrong. So very, very, very wrong. And so VERY, VERY, VERY awesome. SO FREAKING AWESOME! That was some sickly-twisted, beautifully-poetic work on display tonight. And I am bummed about Carol (way more than I would have been about Tyler). Susan Walters is a great actress who has done this "small" part incredible justice. She went out on a beautifully acted note. (And I'm so glad it wasn't Liz! Sorry, Carol.)

Absolutely loved this. So much that I had to replay the scene for my boyfriend, who isn't even into TVD. He kind of "hmmmed" it, but I was like, "Best freaking kill scene I've seen in this show ever." I have been waiting for something to happen where Klaus actually does something horrible and bad and this was it. That being said, it reminded me a lot of 3x14 when Damon snapped Kol's neck and then responded to Stefan, "Far be it for me to cause a problem." Just the look of utter disgust and even a little bit of fatigue crossed Damon's face when he walked away from the ball. I felt the same energy coming from Klaus after his rampage.

Klaus will never truly have acceptance from anyone and he's so tired of it. I felt for the man, actually. He was in my top two this week.

And as much as people aren't on board with Tyler (most of the time I couldn't care less what happens to him), tonight he was giving off this epic vibe to me. He was the leader, finally coming into his own. He was fighting for what he felt was right, and all he wanted was Caroline on his side, but she's too busy being dramatic about everything else. Shit, she cares more about Stefan and Elena's relationship than her own lately. When he called her brilliant and kissed her, I felt a little sad because I feel like he just wants her in his corner and it's not looking that way. Trevino's not going to be on the show much longer. That's not a spoiler, just a theory. I feel like they're gearing up to take him out. However, he really proved himself for me tonight.

Really refreshed to hear that Caroline didn't "have time to deal with the sire bond issue" as she had bigger fish to fry. If I have to hear her be... herself for one more episode, I might have shut the tv off (okay, not true, but still... it's annoying.) I did like her inability to look Stefan in the eyes at the end of the epy, though.

I want to know why they needed 12 hybrids specifically. I want to know when they're going to kill Hayley as just side fodder because she's not important anymore.

I am sad that we'll get inner turmoil between Damon and Elena for the rest of the season (again, not a spoiler, just reflection) and wish they could have at least a half a season of just being with each other as you've described... I feel they'll be together soon, but yeah... just wish it could have lasted a little longer.

Okay, I've hijacked your thread enough!
Arabian: Damon & Elena22arabian on December 15th, 2012 03:37 am (UTC)
"Best freaking kill scene I've seen in this show ever."

Aww, my favorite is still Damon ripping the werewolf's heart out AS the werewolf was jumping from the roof of the trailer to attack him.

When he called her brilliant and kissed her, I felt a little sad because I feel like he just wants her in his corner and it's not looking that way.

Yeah, I said above to someone else, I think she should be on his side if she truly loves him like she claims to, but frankly, I've never ever bought it. It always felt more like something Caroline said because she wanted to believe that she loved him epically. Tyler has always seemed the one who was truly in love whereas with Caroline it was friends with benefits that due to the crazy of the situation was upgraded to love because it *should* have been rather than that she actually feels it.

am sad that we'll get inner turmoil between Damon and Elena for the rest of the season

I think the turmoil will continue, but I highly doubt it will be half the season. I actually expect that Elena is going to fight to be back with him before too long and they WILL be together, just not all the way and there will still be doubts about how much is real. An episode or two, maybe three they'll be apart. And we'll see from there.

just wish it could have lasted a little longer

I'm OK with it because if they had been together longer, the story couldn't have quite played out as I think the writers need to. Her friends/family/Stefan would have seen with their own eyes what viewers (and Alaric and Jeremy only got teeny glimpses of) have been seeing all along. How GOOD and RIGHT and HAPPY they are together. It would have rushed things along too soon, I think. But, yeah, we'll see.

Edited at 2012-12-15 03:38 am (UTC)
archangel_blood: D/E your safetyarchangel_blood on December 15th, 2012 05:23 pm (UTC)
Thank you for this post, no REALLY, thank you! I was so annoyed with the stupid siring business last night that I was in a really bad mood after I watched the episode. I saw Elena leave Damon’s side as he ordered her to do with my own eyes, and I still refused to concede that the sire bond exists. I simply couldn’t believe we’re just supposed to accept Elena’s sired, considering all the glaring inconsistencies. I’d be extremely disappointed if this turned out to be the case, and it doesn’t have anything to do with D/E’s story, but with the quality of writing for this show. I’ve put so much faith in the writers that I just refuse to believe they could be so sloppy in setting up something so important and long-planned. There has to be another explanation, and this theory about Professor Shady Pants’ involvement makes a lot of sense, and it also makes me feel so much better about the whole thing; I’m so hoping you’re right.

Now, I think we all agree that Damon was in an awful position, and pretty much no right thing to do. Whatever he decided, he’d be violating Elena’s free will; whether he chose to pursue a relationship with a supposedly sired woman, whose one burning desire was to please him (pffft, yeah, I guess Elena didn’t get that particular memo), or tell her to forget about him and her feelings for him, even though they were real and human feelings, and not up to him to take away, he’d be in the wrong.

From this point of view, I liked Damon’s choice of words about setting her free, as it seems to be the least intrusive and forcible way to deal with the situation, while still trying to do the honourable thing. However, I don’t really get the point; setting her free from what? The sire bond, her feelings, himself, what? Because Elena did follow his order to leave, however she was still very obviously in love with him when they said their goodbyes, as is Damon with her; the only thing that’s changed now is that they will stay away from each other and suffer. Colour me skeptical.

Having read your theory, it all looks less pointless though, so that’s positive.

Yeah, totally still them, not watered down, not sugared up, not a carbon-copy of Elena's past relationships. They are still Damon and Elena. And they continue to be so obviously THE couple.

With these two, I don’t fear even the “going steady” phase, which more often than not ends up being the swan song for many previously great on-screen couples. Nope, I don’t think this will be the case with Damon and Elena at all. I have nothing more to say about them (surprisingly), just word on everything you wrote. I continue to be in love with their development this season.

Yes, Jeremy and Damon; how great is their relationship, seriously? I adore these two together; such a complicated dynamics, yet there is so much trust and a sort of genuine, if a little cranky affection. <3

Klaus slaughtering hybrid after hybrid after hybrid and so on and so forth to "O Holy Night," and then drowning a drunk Carol Lockwood to a ghostly version of "Have Yourself a Merry Christmas" was all kinds of wrong. So very, very, very wrong. And so VERY, VERY, VERY awesome. SO FREAKING AWESOME!

The hybrid massacre scene was so psychotically beautiful that it left me kinda shaken. Sometimes I get so used to TVD’s quality, that I forget the true extent of its superiority to most TV shows out there; stuff like that serve as a great reminder though.

Whee! See, Bonnie doesn't hate Damon anymore.

I loved her attitude, such a welcome contrast to the shit Damon’s getting from Caroline and his brother right now. Plus, one sucky friend is enough, so I’m sure Elena appreciates Bonnie’s non-judgyness too.

I love my show! I love my show! I love my show! SO HARD.

Lol Basically, yes.
Arabian: Damon & Elena22arabian on December 16th, 2012 04:29 am (UTC)
Thank you for this post, no REALLY, thank you! I was so annoyed with the stupid siring business last night that I was in a really bad mood after I watched the episode.

I wasn’t in a bad mood because I did love the episode overall, I was just confused. I couldn’t wrap my brain around that the sire bond wasn’t real – because as you said below, it’s just way, way too sloppy of the writers then – so I kept working at it. And then came my aha! Moment. Glad it helped you too.

Now, I think we all agree that Damon was in an awful position, and pretty much no right thing to do.

Yup, he’s pretty much screwed either way and it’s so frustrating that Stefan (and Caroline) don’t even seem to be considering that AT ALL. But, yeah, par for the course there, I guess.

pffft, yeah, I guess Elena didn’t get that particular memo

LOL!

However, I don’t really get the point; setting her free from what? The sire bond, her feelings, himself, what?

I guess setting her free from wanting to be with him? That’s what I got from it.

Because Elena did follow his order to leave

Because Professor Shady Pants obviously hypnotized her to follow his direct orders. Uh huh.

Colour me skeptical.

This may be why they start to wonder if it’s possibly not real – but because she DID follow his directions and leave, still err on the side that it is – but she still really, really wants to be with him, and so they try and see what they can do/be together while testing the bond? I don’t know.

Having read your theory, it all looks less pointless though, so that’s positive.

Yeah, this theory just wraps EVERYTHING up so perfectly. (Plus, I found a few other points. I’m going to try and work on the post tonight, but I have to work on my fic first, so we’ll see.)

Yes, Jeremy and Damon; how great is their relationship, seriously? I adore these two together; such a complicated dynamics, yet there is so much trust and a sort of genuine, if a little cranky affection. <3

SO MUCH LOVE FOR THEM!!!!!!

The hybrid massacre scene was so psychotically beautiful that it left me kinda shaken. Sometimes I get so used to TVD’s quality, that I forget the true extent of its superiority to most TV shows out there; stuff like that serve as a great reminder though.

Yup, and it infuriates and frustrates me anew how many people (including so-called fans) don’t give the show its due. It is SO much better than it’s painted as.

I loved her attitude, such a welcome contrast to the shit Damon’s getting from Caroline and his brother right now. Plus, one sucky friend is enough, so I’m sure Elena appreciates Bonnie’s non-judgyness too.

Allow me a moment to grrrr! at Joshua Butler again for his SUCKY, SUCKY direction of episode 04 that had Bonnie inexplicably back on the bitch-train with Damon after not having been there forever (oh, except for episode 20 of season 03 – which JOSHUA BUTLER DIRECTED TOO!)

RE: [I love my show! I love my show! I love my show! SO HARD.] Lol Basically, yes.

So glad seeing this from you after your leaning-towards ambivalence at the start of the season.
(no subject) - archangel_blood on December 16th, 2012 01:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 17th, 2012 06:21 am (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on December 15th, 2012 08:02 pm (UTC)
Okay well, this episode was one of those episodes where you need to rewatch stuff to get all of the inner working of these relationships at play. I think it's interesting in how many character alliances were being formed: Stefan and Caroline, Tyler and Hayley, Stefan and Klaus, Caroline and Klaus (sort of), Hayley and Shane, Klaus and Shane, Damon and Elena, The Gilberts, Damon, bonnie and Jeremy, and so on and so forth.

And then there's SHane...you know Julie said in an interview before this season that the characters and the viewers won't know who the next big bad is for a good amount of time into the season, and she's right. We still haven't actually been told who the big bad is. Yes, we can surmise who it may be, but we have not been told. This is unlike Klaus and Elijah's entrance in season 2. We knew right away that Klaus was the big bad and Elijah when he was first introduced in "Rose." When you think about all of the paranoia and alliances being formed and the way every character is siding with another character. Every character has a goal, if it's the cure, to eliminate Klaus, find their parents or loved one, or even to eliminate a bond ever single character has an angle. This give a very paranoid and conspiracy feel to this season. Conversations are going unheard by the viewers and by other charaters..all of these plans within a plan and everything else that was highlighted in this episode just screams that these characters are being manipulated and are doing some manipulating. Who is the one character that isn't really involved with any othese relationships? Shane. I really do think that Shane is the master puppeteer of all of this mess, including the bond.

I can totally see this bond existing but in a different way. After all, like shane was saying, why would you want to break a bond that is defined as loving someone too much? Something doesn't translate with this bond and I think a lot of these affects that Damon and the other are seeing with Elena is being manipulated and created by Shane. After reading your post i firmly believe that. Of course Julie and co. won't admit to it yet and they will continue to tell us that this bond needs to be broken by turning Elena human, which I don't think will happen, but it's obvious Damon isn't thinking clearly here, neither is Elena. Damon is completely consumed by this bond and hasn't looked at the inconsistenies because he doesn't have the heart to. Shane has gotten to the two smartest characters on this show...Klaus and damon. Now, there's no telling what he can manipulate to happen.
Arabian: Damon04arabian on December 16th, 2012 04:35 am (UTC)
We still haven't actually been told who the big bad is. Yes, we can surmise who it may be, but we have not been told.

Very true.

Every character has a goal, if it's the cure, to eliminate Klaus, find their parents or loved one, or even to eliminate a bond ever single character has an angle. This give a very paranoid and conspiracy feel to this season.

And it’s been such a joy to watch to from the point of view that we’re seeing all of the characters working together/against each other, in separate threads, but all a part of the greater whole. It’s just being beautifully laid out.

everything [..] highlighted in this episode just screams that these characters are being manipulated and are doing some manipulating. Who is the one character that isn't really involved with any these relationships? Shane. I really do think that Shane is the master puppeteer of all of this mess, including the bond.

Yup, yup, yup. It really does make SO much sense!

I can totally see this bond existing but in a different way. After all, like shane was saying, why would you want to break a bond that is defined as loving someone too much?

It could be Shane seeing the true love there and playing with that and using the sire bond theory to his own advantage.

this bond needs to be broken by turning Elena human, which I don't think will happen

Yeah, I think it will be Damon or Klaus who winds up human, but we’ll see.

it's obvious Damon isn't thinking clearly here, neither is Elena. Damon is completely consumed by this bond and hasn't looked at the inconsistenies because he doesn't have the heart to.

Exactly.

Shane has gotten to the two smartest characters on this show...Klaus and Damon.

I agree re: Damon, but I think that Shane and Klaus are working together at this point – that’s the only way my theory works (and what makes sense within the context of the show, i.e., Klaus dropping the sire bond theory to Caroline). But I do think it’s very, very possible that Shane plans on double-crossing Klaus.
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on December 17th, 2012 03:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on December 23rd, 2012 04:39 am (UTC) (Expand)
melinaki_123 on December 16th, 2012 08:53 pm (UTC)
I have been reading and enjoying immensely all the comments on this blog.This is my baptismal -sort of- with commenting.Let me just say that I'm an unapologetic Damon Fan with all that it implies.Therefore if Damon loves I love Elena,if Damon says horses fly then horse do fly.So as you may have deduced, Elena may not be sired to Damon but as sure as hell I am!!! Good to be here please continue writing and explicating what I believe to be a great love- as equal as Lance lot and Guinevere and Tristan and Isolde the Love of Damon and Elena! ;-)
Arabian: Damon04arabian on December 17th, 2012 06:28 am (UTC)
I have been reading and enjoying immensely all the comments on this blog. This is my baptismal -sort of- with commenting.

Well, thank you very much -- and I completely concur on the comments. I love reading the many thoughts that others bring to the table here. :) Glad you're joining us.

Let me just say that I'm an unapologetic Damon Fan with all that it implies.Therefore if Damon loves I love Elena,if Damon says horses fly then horse do fly.

Haha! I cannot blame you on that, hee.

So as you may have deduced, Elena may not be sired to Damon but as sure as hell I am!!!

Get in line, LOL!

Good to be here please continue writing and explicating what I believe to be a great love- as equal as Lance lot and Guinevere and Tristan and Isolde the Love of Damon and Elena! ;-)

Thanks for commenting, and yeah, such a fantastic love story they are writing here. Love it so much. (BTW: If you want to get an icon -- I have TONS to choose from. You can go through my icons that I use, or any of my icon posts if you're interested. :)
Eris: pic#110572612l_eris_l on December 17th, 2012 01:05 pm (UTC)
I've been following these posts with interest, especially those regarding the sire bond being fake. I so want it to be fake, and there are so many holes. I was reading JP's Twitter today and she has answered questions from fans and some were about sire bond plotholes and inconsistencies. She explained them all, from Elena not feeding on the blonde college girl, arguing with Damon about killing Connor, to her only acting different/sired after 4x06, then said that unlike compulsion there are no hard and fast rules, and it's emotion-based. I can see her maintaining that the sire bond is real in interviews to keep up the ruse, but going point for point on Twitter too, with an explanation for everything? I think it's supposed to be real and there might have been some sloppy writing. Her interviews have also mentioned the sire bond being an issue while Elena is a vampire, which makes me think either Elena or Damon are turning human. Doesn't the show generally follow the books? If so I could see Damon becoming human this season.

All of that said, I'd much rather watch your version of the show and go with your Shane theory. ;-)
Arabian: Damon & Elena12arabian on December 17th, 2012 01:33 pm (UTC)
Twitter is just another form of interviews. She's doling out enough information to keep people watching, but not revealing the bigger hand. I just know that in season 02 people went crazy calling out inconsistences and the lameness of the sun/moon curse and then it all turned out to be fake. The same cries about the issues are here, and she's just trying to steer off the 'fake' cries from people like me because, again, she doesn't want to reveal the bigger plan. That's what I'm going with. I've read most (if not all) of her interviews about the sire bond and in every single one there is totally wiggle-room about the sire bond being real. Every single one.

Unlike compulsion there are no hard and fast rules, and it's emotion-based

Except, we're not comparing the sire bond to compulsion. We're comparing it to what they've told us about the *sire bond* on the show. And it doesn't jibe. :)

either Elena or Damon are turning human.

I still think Damon (or Klaus) is going to turn human, but I still don't buy the sire bond. Hell, I could even see Damon turning human, Elena still all in love with him and Klaus mockingly reveal how he had them all twisted in knots over something that wasn't even real on his say-so. Again. Of course, it could be true, I don't think so, but yeah, it could. And if it is true, well, that's some REALLY sloppy writing.

Doesn't the show generally follow the books?

Nope. Beyond a few episodes in the beginning, they've departed radically. They pick and choose a few things here and there, but go their own way with it.

Edited at 2012-12-17 01:35 pm (UTC)
aurora7948/Celestial Auroraaurora7948 on December 31st, 2012 07:18 pm (UTC)
Random comment on this episode, anyone else notice that Bonnie calls Caroline "Charlotte" when she answers her phone when Caroline calls her to ask in using Rebekah's body will work instead of using Tyler's? It happens about halfway through the episode.
Arabian: Bonnie02arabian on January 1st, 2013 03:23 am (UTC)
No, she says "Caroline." I just watched it, and then listened to it without looking at it to really listen, and she clearly says 'Caroline.' Not sure why you heard differently.
(no subject) - aurora7948 on January 1st, 2013 03:49 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 1st, 2013 08:13 am (UTC) (Expand)