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04 May 2012 @ 06:11 pm
3.21 - 'Before Sunset' (The Vampire Diaries)  
Sorry for the delay. My first at-home-on-time Vampire Diaries viewing since 3.03 was last night .. and so, of course, I had a migraine. Of course. Also, I watched The Avengers this morning (spoiler alert: AWESOME!) ... so, yeah, just getting to this now. P I'm still having issues with the fact that Stefan has yet to (and likely will not ever) suffer any actual consequences his misdeeds. Nor will there be even a hint of fallout over the things he said and did to Elena. However, there is one episode left, so I will save that discussion mostly until after the season is over, instead I will focus on the specifics of this episode.

First of all, character MVPs tonight were easily Damon and Klaus. Damon isn't the surprise (certainly not for me), but Klaus did indeed surprise me. But I loved just about every single moment with him tonight. I, especially loved the scenes where he kept throwing different objects into the Gilbert house to push them into granting him entry, so cracked me up.

 
 

And the final bit there with him holding the can of gasoline and lit paper alternately had me laughing and wondering why the heck other vampires hadn't tried this tactic. And the best part was how disappointed he was when he couldn't go all the way. I don't watch this show with morality in mind, so I happily say, it was awesome, and so very Klaus. I mean, look at his face in that last gif. He just looks so frustrated when Stefan tells him that Elena isn't even in the house. Hee!

Then there was his inability to trust in the love of his sister, who has stood by his side and forgiven him for more than anyone else in like ever! Finally, I also loved the moment he shared with Caroline -- these two have more emotion and chemistry in their mostly wordless minute-long scene than Tyler and Caroline have in all of their scenes since his return (heck, and even before he left). It certainly doesn't help that Tyler and Caroline are being all "I love you," to each other, all the while Caroline is having these emotionally charged moments with Klaus, really shows the strength of *that* relationship. Yeah, last week was ABSOLUTELY Caroline projecting her situation onto Elena. Abso-fucking-lutely.

Which leads us to the other guy who was pretty much non-stop awesome-sauce from moment one (heh, what else is new?) ... Damon. I loved that as much as Klaus loves to throw Damon in Elena's face, even though it's not something that Damon is even aware of it, still, he has just as much fun throwing Caroline in Klaus' face. And Klaus always looked so peeved. He's so the walking definition of dishes it, but can't take it. Oh, Klaus! But, we're talking about Damon. He was so much fun in this episode. It's like the higher the stakes are, if they have a solid plan in play and he can indulge in his special brand of crazy, he's gonna go for it. Unlike the rest of them, he gets it ... they could all die any moment, so he's going to squeeze what fun he can out of the moments before death comes a'knocking.

And that included his attitude when Klaus was attacking the house. The others are all ducking, hiding -- you know, like sane people, LOL! Damon? Is all "missed me! Nyeah nyeah nyeah!" Oh, Damon. I love you so. I also about died at that look he gave Bonnie after Abby wouldn't take the blood from him. It was just ... seriously, ultra perfection.

     

And Bonnie didn't give him an annoyed look back, really, didn't snark at him, and even was cool with him sitting down next to her. It was awesome, and makes me tentatively hope that his unexpected healing of her has mayhaps softened her a bit towards him at last. I hope so, because I really enjoyed their scenes together. Can Damon and Bonnie have this kind relationship forever? On the same side, snarking -- but not mean-spiritedly, working together, kicking ass and taking names to get the job done. These two can be so awesome together. And dare I hope that there was a reason we had Bonnie specifically call Damon out on the fact that he saved her despite the fact that he supposedly doesn't care? Could it be that someone else is going to finally look past the surface and see all that Damon does for the town, the group, and that he does, after all, care? One can dream.

I mean, they essentially made it clear (in front of multiple people) that Damon does care about:

(a) Bonnie -- "why did you give me your blood to heal me?"
(b) Ric -- "because I'm stupid like that, like staying with my friend so he could die with dignity instead of a quick death"
(c) Jeremy -- "take the ring off, fine, keep it on to stay alive (looking to Bonnie) make sure he stays alive"
(d) Stefan -- duh
(e) Elena -- double duh

So pretty, pretty please tell me that this is a sign that the attitude crapola that is directed towards Damon on a regular basis will wain, and the gang will stop treating him like a pimple on Satan's ass. That would be one of three things that were there to be that sign indeed that things they are a'changing will make me re-evaluate my dying uber-critical love of the show.

Not one of the three, but something that would make me very, very happy as well would be a strengthening of a relationship between Damon and Jeremy. The actors (and character dynamics) just work so well together. I loved how Stefan told Jeremy to go upstairs when Klaus showed up, and Jeremy just looked at him like 'whatever, dude,' and he didn't move. Then Damon said one word ("now"), and Jeremy sent him an annoyed look, but ... he went upstairs. It just seems like Damon (and to a degree that isn't 'she's just my slightly older sister mentality,' Elena) is the only person that Jeremy listens to. He certainly didn't listen to Jenna, or Alaric, and he appears to actively dislike and absolutely not respect Stefan. (To which, I say, go Jeremy, because I just don't find Stefan very likable myself nowadays, sadly.)

Speaking of Jeremy, oh, I loved that moment with Jeremy and Bonnie. She may have been sucking face and cuddling with Jamie last week, but she and Jeremy have a bond, a connection that no one else can touch right now. I can't help it, I love them, I want these two to work their way back to each other. (With some groveling from Jeremy, of course.)

So, yeah, lovely moment with them. I just wish that I'd gotten something with Matt and Rebekah too {pouts}. Come on, it's not like Zach Roerig wasn't in the episode (hi, Matt for one dinky scene and line!) ... why, oh, why couldn't he have been cleaning up after the dance with Rebekah? (Sob! Yet another dance she didn't go to, my poor, Rebekah!) Would it have killed them to give me a little Matt/Rebekah after Esther denied me a dance with the two? (Cuz, you so know that they would have danced. Totally!) *sigh* Oh, Rebekah, she was just so ... defeated in this episode. Not even really snarking with Caroline, but that did maybe at least add to the momentarily same team moment they shared. And it was nice, seeing them not being bitchy and nasty to each other. (I'd still prefer to see Elena/Rebekah having a "moment" though. I want them to be BFFs so badly! I know, I know, if wishes were horses, I'd be saddle-sore.)

Seriously though, that scene in the beginning with Caroline, and then her begging Klaus to just leave with her (even without his precious doppelganger for his stupid hybrids), Rebekah was just so done. Done with this town, with this heartbreak, done with all of it. Oh, Rebekah. She's kept in a coffin for almost a hundred years, having been taken out just when she had discovered someone to love. When she comes back to the land of the living, it's to find that someone in love with someone else and practically every moment since then has been filled with chaos, pain, betrayal and very little happiness. And you could just see the weight of that hanging like a pall on her. It was heartbreaking, and Claire Holt continues to prove her worth. Please to be making her a regular next season. Pretty, pretty please!!! Hmm, although, maybe, kinda, sorta, we can rule her out as the Original!Mommy! ... unless, Klaus was bluffing. That's certainly possible. Hmm....

Another thing that makes me go hmm... Please explain me to me like I'm stupid why the hell Elena told Tyler to "Get Stefan" as she was BEING DRAINED OF BLOOD?!?!?!??!?!?!? For the love of all that's holy, that pretty much pissed me off on every level that is humanly possible. There's the ridiculousness of the fact that the last time she was in this very situation -- which wasn't actually that long ago! -- she was there BECAUSE Stefan (compelled or not, he still did it!) had bitten into her jugular. But, no, she wants Tyler to get Stefan. You know, that guy. The same guy, who, oh, wait, let me remember ... what is that little issue of his? Oh, yeah, right. HE'S A BLOOD JUNKIE TRYING TO DETOX! Seriously. So. Very. Stupid. And part of the anvillicious problem I had with this episode.

They did such a fantastic job setting up Damon and Elena in the first half of the season, that in order to make it "even" between Stefan and Damon when it comes to her choice, they had to essentially take Damon out of the equation for eight episodes in the second half (12-18, 20). And then ham-handedly throw Stefan back into the mix, with nary a nod to the horrific things he's done ... because no sane person with any actual character motivation would be even considering Stefan romantically AT ALL in this point in time.

I could see it down the line as a possibility because (a) this IS Elena, and (b), I can't very well buy her with Damon if I don't buy that time and attitude can open the door to romance. But now? With Stefan? No. It doesn't make sense, and in order to shoehorn Elena into making a "choice," they've ignored the reality of all that Stefan has done. I hope that something will be said in the finale. One line from her that expresses her inability to be with him right now not because she wants to be with Damon (which, obviously would be a part of it) but because she can't be with Stefan after some of the things he did. That wasn't who she fell in love with, and she's accepted that it's a part of him, but it's not a part of him she's able to love.

As of now, though, nothing of the like has even been hinted at, so I don't know. It just all feels so very 'tell, not show.' Which was essentially that entire scene on the porch. Don't get me wrong. I like that Elena was completely honest, and laid her feelings out there. My problem is that other than Julie Plec talking about Elena's choice ad nauseum in interviews, prior to Klaus' incongruous mention of Elena's choice to Stefan in last week's episode, where is this choice suddenly coming from? Why now? Why is it happening now? Why? They're in the middle of a huge crisis ... but wait, Elena's gotta decide who she wants to play snuggle bunnies with and fuck? Seriously?!

That, plus the ignoring of the Damon-side of things for most of the last half of this season, and suddenly, inexplicably shoe-horning Stefan back in as they have made that porch scene just ... not work. I felt like it was very television-triangle-ish in a way that this show actually rarely is because there are such bigger issues at stake. It was as if the show was telling the audience Elena's point of view, as opposed to showing it over the course of the last batch of episodes. And they could have. "The Murder of One" with Damon's kidnapping would have been the perfect episode to do so, but they dropped the ball there. Instead, we got very little reaction from Elena, jumping Damon in the next episode, and then making goo-goo eyes at Stefan in the following.

And because of how off they've handled this, I kept expecting Damon to go "Wait? What? I'm actually a legit option here?!" because there's certainly been nothing that showed her feelings for him truly past 3.11 beyond her attempting to satisfy her lust in 3.19 -- and yeah, with NOTHING ELSE in the two episodes that followed it, and all of the episodes preceding it after 3.11, it did play out like lust. Precisely because this change in their interaction happened AFTER she became aware that they could still save Stefan, without any obvious feelings for Damon on display. (Again, paging Damon's kidnapping in 3.18 -- PERFECT opportunity blown.)

Of course, it's not just lust. I know that Elena is in love with Damon. After all, she went to him on her own in "Heart of Darkness," whereas she had to be pushed to go to Stefan in "Do Not Go Gentle" (and, yay, for Caroline NOT waving the Stefan-flag in that final group scene!). And while Elena told Tyler to get Stefan (:roll my eyes:), it was *Damon* who went to her, Damon who saw her out. And, despite the issues I have with Elena's "choice," the fact that there is a choice to be made says something because it means that Elena's belief from before that it would always be Stefan has been completely disproven.

So there was definite good behind the choice, it is just the ham-handed way in which it's been presented in the last few episodes that bothers me so. One last issue I had with the porch scene is probably one that wasn't even intended -- unless the writers truly are trolling us in their interviews and they are playing us all.* And that issue would be Stefan and his inherent, awful selfishness coming to the fore again. Elena tearfully, honestly tells them that she doesn't want to choose one because it means she'll lose the other, and she's lost so many people that it hurts. And what is Stefan's response? To tell Damon that if Elena chooses Damon, Stefan will leave town, and then he pretty much guilted Damon into responding in kind ... essentially planning on doing the VERY THING that Elena just told them was her big fear, losing either of them. For reals. God, Stefan.

*ETA: Thanks to my lovely flist, I have a new, happy thought on the trolling, and I'm totally going with it. My big wish has been that the writers do realize how manipulative (although, I still maintain that he isn't doing it on purpose, it's just his amazing ability to completely convince himself of his "truth"), and that any lack of commentary of such is them just trolling. Now that I think about it, they certainly don't go around talking about what a dick and an asshole Damon is -- when he certainly is enough of the time. So think about it: they NEVER talk about the negative aspects of the characters and relationships (beyond the obvious Damon snapped Jeremy's neck, and even that is rarely even alluded to) because they don't want to piss off fans ... BUT, it's obviously THERE onscreen. (Sure, non-critical-thinking Stefan stans don't see, but non-critical Damon-stans don't see any negative in him either.) Doesn't that suddenly make so much more sense as to the lack of writerly-interviews commenting on Stefan's negative words/actions? It does to me, and makes me feel so much better!

Also, thanks to my flist, I actually have a different read on the scene, still showing Stefan as being selfish, and Damon being stupid for going along, but it definitely plays it as less selfishly-aware (which is how I genuinely believe that Stefan is -- dude, doesn't realize how selfish he can be). I can see Damon fully believing (and Stefan honestly thinking so as well) that Elena was just being her normal, nice, overly forgiving, big-hearted self and that, of course, she's going to choose Stefan, and of course, she's not going to say, yeah, you can go bye-bye now Damon, see ya! So this way they believe that they are giving her what she really wants which, of course, isn't fair to Elena. However, it makes sense character-wise. Stefan obviously believes that he knows Elena best and what she wants. And Damon just goes along with that because, well, based on what's been said to him (mostly from Elena, but he's certainly heard it or gotten that impression strongly from others). High-handed, but it makes sense because of (a) the time period they come from when men made all the decisions traditionally, and (b) Elena, because she hasn't wanted to deal with her feelings for Damon, has pretty much gone along with Stefan's narrative from the get-go.

Selfish as always, and no doubt, completely convinced that he's doing this for her because Stefan is GREAT at convincing himself of his own revisionist view of things. See: Telling Klaus that he would go with him, if he'd leave Elena in Mystic Falls (no doubt, a bone to the Stefan/Elena fans since he did just that for Damon last season), and rewriting history, pointing out that he did so before to keep Elena safe before. :Head meet desk: No, Stefan, you didn't leave town and all that jazz to keep Elena safe, you left town to save your brother's life, keeping Elena safe was secondary, dude! But there you go, that's Stefan for ya!

Still, I DID like the brothers' scene in the car. Even if they were completely disregarding Elena's wishes, I won't take away from the fact that they were choosing to not let another girl tear them apart. I also liked that Stefan saw right through Klaus' attempt to put a wedge between the brothers, and calmly put him down with a smug smile. Still, there was the moment when Klaus went down, and the look on Stefan's face ... I don't know, but I certainly got the impression that feelings came to the surface that Stefan had submerged. I would like to see some future exploration of the Stefan/Klaus relationship. Alas, I don't think that will happen next week what with the whole desiccation thing.

Speaking of .. erm, why didn't the gang think of this way back when they found out the spell was possible and that a witch they knew was the one who did it? I dunno, it sure looks like that would have been a good plan. Ah well. You know, this group and their lack of plan prowess. Ahem.

Okay, random thoughts ...

- Oh, that opening with the Civil War memorabilia just broke my heart because I have so dreamed of Alaric and Damon having a conversation about the war with Ric plying Damon with question after question since Damon was a soldier. Now ... it will never happen. WAH!

- Maybe I'm alone here, but, uhm, yeah, not actually overly impressed with Matt Davis. Yes, he's doing a good job with Evil!Vampire!Ric, but, any pretty good actor can do an evil character well because you have such juicy material to play with. However, when he called later to tell the gang that Klaus had Elena, technically, he's still Evil!Vampire!Ric, but yet, he sounded and looked EXACTLY like regular Ric. There was no nuance, no differentiating there. So, yeah, I still think he's a very good actor, but I'm not wowed or anything.

- I wonder ... what fresh consequences will come from doing that dark magic spell for not only Bonnie, but also Jeremy?

- Speaking of Bonnie. Kat Graham looked SO pretty in the opening scene. I just ignored the unbelievability of her make-up and hair being so fresh and lovely after all that happened and appreciated how PRETTY she looked.

- So, I wonder what the fallout will be from the council knowing about Caroline and Tyler? And, erm Ric -- since he was being all zoom-y and supernatural in front of them there.

- Finally, I seriously wonder ... are Damon and Stefan REALLY taking Klaus' body and dumping it in the Atlantic Ocean?

So, second to last episode. Not nearly as strong as season 01 and 02's penultimate episodes, but it was definitely better than last week. And I'll withhold full judgment until I see the finale. :)
 
 
 
Bogwitch: TVD - Caroline Elenabogwitch on May 4th, 2012 10:41 pm (UTC)
I think I must be one of the few that didn't like ripper!Stefan all that much and was missing 'nice' diplomatic Stefan (I use that term with the knowing and understood reservations that come with it), but now we have him back and he hasn't earned the right to walk into his position with Elena again, plus all the rest of the selfish shit he's pulling, I am really wished we had the ripper back. I might have to selete all my Stefan icons!!!!

And not only is he a blood junkie trying to detox, Elena, he's also flipping useless in a fight!
Arabian: Stefan04arabian on May 5th, 2012 01:08 pm (UTC)
Oh, he's not totally useless in a fight. He's definitely had his moments. (The bit in my icon for example. :)

I prefer nicer Stefan to Ripper!Stefan myself, but mostly, I'd prefer a Stefan who's ready to accept and come to terms with both sides of his personality and reach a happy medium.

My big wish is that the writers do realize how selfish he is coming across, and that any lack of commentary of such is them just trolling. Because now that I think about it, they certainly don't go around talking about what a dick and a an asshole Damon is -- when he certainly is enough of the time, LOL!
(no subject) - bogwitch on May 5th, 2012 02:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on May 5th, 2012 02:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bogwitch on May 5th, 2012 03:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - bogwitch on May 5th, 2012 03:22 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on May 6th, 2012 11:31 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on May 6th, 2012 11:30 am (UTC) (Expand)
vanimy: Damon/Stefanvanimy on May 4th, 2012 10:54 pm (UTC)
Basically agree with all of this! I'll probably come back later to post a more constructive comment (getting pretty late around here! ;))
Arabian: Damon&Stefan01arabian on May 5th, 2012 01:10 pm (UTC)
I look forward to it. :)

Oh, my brothers Salvatore. Whatever issue I had with how Stefan and Damon in agreeing) responded to Elena's concern -- by, you know, ignoring it! -- I did love that we got smiling, mostly in sync brotherly bonding. :D
(no subject) - vanimy on May 9th, 2012 11:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on May 10th, 2012 04:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on May 10th, 2012 10:40 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on May 9th, 2012 11:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on May 10th, 2012 04:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on May 10th, 2012 10:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on May 9th, 2012 11:42 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on May 10th, 2012 04:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on May 10th, 2012 10:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on May 9th, 2012 11:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on May 10th, 2012 04:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on May 10th, 2012 10:51 pm (UTC) (Expand)
sassy, classy, and a bit smart-assy: TVD: Damon WTFbadboy_fangirl on May 4th, 2012 11:03 pm (UTC)
And what is Stefan's response? To tell Damon that if Elena chooses Damon, Stefan will leave town, and then he pretty much guilted Damon into responding in kind ... essentially planning on doing the VERY THING that Elena just told them was her big fear, losing either of them. For reals. God, Stefan.
THIS! This in particular made me make my WTF? face again, because how does the ENTIRE WRITING STAFF OF TVD NOT KNOW THAT THEY HAVE WRITTEN A MASTER MANIPULATOR? I mean, COME ON?! I would have very much liked Damon to be like, "Um, but she just said..." but instead, he picked up the loyalty baton and ran with it. Very odd, all the way around.

As for everything else, of course I agree. Jer/Bon, Stefan/Klaus---oh, how I wish. And Caroline/Klaus. You're right, their brief scenes just sing and make the Ty/Care scenes pale in comparison, though I did appreciate Tyler helping Elena out. He was definitely back on the good list this week. I still have dreams about Matt and Rebekah, with hearts drawn around them.

I found this GIF earlier that you should get a kick out of:
Photobucket
Dianabutterfly on May 5th, 2012 12:11 am (UTC)
THIS! This in particular made me make my WTF? face again, because how does the ENTIRE WRITING STAFF OF TVD NOT KNOW THAT THEY HAVE WRITTEN A MASTER MANIPULATOR? I mean, COME ON?! I would have very much liked Damon to be like, "Um, but she just said..." but instead, he picked up the loyalty baton and ran with it. Very odd, all the way around.

I know, right? THAT WAS THE EXACT THING ELENA JUST SAID SHE DIDN'T WANT.
(no subject) - arabian on May 5th, 2012 01:49 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on May 5th, 2012 01:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Diana: Vampire Diaries - Dancebutterfly on May 5th, 2012 12:10 am (UTC)
I agree with everything you said (except that my adoration of Klaus didn't at all surprise me. I love that guy). I'm really kinda waiting to see what the finale does, but I'm not happy about what Stefan did just being swept under the rug and ignored.
Arabian: Damon & Elena02arabian on May 5th, 2012 01:30 pm (UTC)
I'm choosing to believe it's not over yet. That we will get something. I have to believe that until proven wrong.

Re: Klaus, you know it's been a long road for me. And, of course, when I'm really getting there, they go and desiccate him. Sheesh!
sillyforwordssillyforwords on May 5th, 2012 12:48 am (UTC)
And what is Stefan's response? To tell Damon that if Elena chooses Damon, Stefan will leave town, and then he pretty much guilted Damon into responding in kind ... essentially planning on doing the VERY THING that Elena just told them was her big fear, losing either of them. For reals. God, Stefan.


This!! Did you get the feeling that Stefan was slipping far too easily into his former role as Elena's BF? He obviously felt confident enough to show up at Elena's house the day after their Gym hug, so he must have felt pretty secure in his position with her. Even when the brothers dropped Elena off, I noticed he spoke up first, telling her he'll call her later, like a BF would. Damon seemed to be accepting of the subtle territorial vibes too, from the look on his face as he turned away. So it makes me wonder if both brothers interpreted Elena's subsequent words to mean that she wants to choose Stefan but didn't want to lose Damon and his friendship. If deep down Stefan thinks he's the winner, so to speak, it does make his magnanimous offer seem quite manipulative, whether that's the writers intent or not.
Arabian: Damon07arabian on May 5th, 2012 02:47 pm (UTC)
This!

Aha! Thanks to my flist, I actually have a different read on the scene, still showing Stefan as being selfish, and Damon being stupid for going along, but it definitely plays it as less selfishly-aware (which is how I genuinely believe that Stefan is -- dude, doesn't realize how selfish he can be). I can see Damon fully believing (and Stefan honestly thinking so as well) that Elena was just being her normal, nice, overly forgiving, big-hearted self and that, of course, she's going to choose Stefan, and of course, she's not going to say, yeah, you can go bye-bye now Damon, see ya! So this way they believe that they are giving her what she really wants which, of course, isn't fair to Elena. However, it makes sense character-wise. Stefan obviously believes that he knows Elena best and what she wants. And Damon just goes along with that because, well, based on what's been said to him (mostly from Elena, but he's certainly heard it or gotten that impression strongly from others). High-handed, but it makes sense because of (a) the time period they come from when men made all the decisions traditionally, and (b) Elena, because she hasn't wanted to deal with her feelings for Damon, has pretty much gone along with Stefan's narrative from the get-go.

Did you get the feeling that Stefan was slipping far too easily into his former role as Elena's BF?

Yup, and Elena seems to be going with that flow. I wonder if that will lead to what has been spec'ced for next week. Stefan assumes (and Damon goes along with that) that Elena chooses him, and Elena's kinda figured well, of course, that's how it's going to be, but when push comes to shove, she realizes that it's Damon she wants with her. We'll see.

deep down Stefan thinks he's the winner, so to speak, it does make his magnanimous offer seem quite manipulative, whether that's the writers intent or not.

I do think he deep down believes so, and while his response is therefore manipulative, I again go with the notion that Stefan genuinely convinces himself he is doing what's best for Elena, and his brother, and isn't intentionally being manipulative. Now, I actually am thinking it's the writer's intent, because, again, thanks to my flist, I have a new, happy thought on the trolling, and I'm totally going with it. My big wish has been that the writers do realize how manipulative (although, I still maintain that he isn't doing it on purpose, it's just his amazing ability to completely convince himself of his "truth"), and that any lack of commentary of such is them just trolling. Now that I think about it, they certainly don't go around talking about what a dick and an asshole Damon is -- when he certainly is enough of the time. So think about it: they NEVER talk about the negative aspects of the characters and relationships (beyond the obvious Damon snapped Jeremy's neck, and even that is rarely even alluded to) because they don't want to piss off fans ... BUT, it's obviously THERE onscreen. (Sure, non-critical-thinking Stefan stans don't see, but non-critical Damon-stans don't see any negative in him either.) Doesn't that suddenly make so much more sense as to the lack of writerly-interviews commenting on Stefan's negative words/actions? It does to me, and makes me feel so much better!
(no subject) - sillyforwords on May 6th, 2012 02:12 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on May 7th, 2012 12:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
shipperjunkieshipperjunkie on May 5th, 2012 03:23 am (UTC)
And because of how off they've handled this, I kept expecting Damon to go "Wait? What? I'm actually a legit option here?!"

This is what makes the ridiculously rushed TVD timeline ridiculous. By my estimation, this episode ended Saturday night. The Mikaelson ball was last Saturday. At a stretch, if I've gotten things wrong, it was two Saturdays ago at the latest. I mean, Damon got tortured all day and they left for Denver THAT NIGHT.
Arabian: Damon04arabian on May 5th, 2012 02:49 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I've just learned to ignore the rushed tiimeline, LOL! Only way to stay sane. Also, I'm actually feeling a bit more positive about some of my major issues.

Thanks to my lovely flist, I have a new, happy thought on the trolling, and I'm totally going with it. My big wish has been that the writers do realize how manipulative (although, I still maintain that he isn't doing it on purpose, it's just his amazing ability to completely convince himself of his "truth"), and that any lack of commentary of such is them just trolling. Now that I think about it, they certainly don't go around talking about what a dick and an asshole Damon is -- when he certainly is enough of the time. So think about it: they NEVER talk about the negative aspects of the characters and relationships (beyond the obvious Damon snapped Jeremy's neck, and even that is rarely even alluded to) because they don't want to piss off fans ... BUT, it's obviously THERE onscreen. (Sure, non-critical-thinking Stefan stans don't see, but non-critical Damon-stans don't see any negative in him either.) Doesn't that suddenly make so much more sense as to the lack of writerly-interviews commenting on Stefan's negative words/actions? It does to me, and makes me feel so much better!

Also, thanks to my flist, I actually have a different read on the scene, still showing Stefan as being selfish, and Damon being stupid for going along, but it definitely plays it as less selfishly-aware (which is how I genuinely believe that Stefan is -- dude, doesn't realize how selfish he can be). I can see Damon fully believing (and Stefan honestly thinking so as well) that Elena was just being her normal, nice, overly forgiving, big-hearted self and that, of course, she's going to choose Stefan, and of course, she's not going to say, yeah, you can go bye-bye now Damon, see ya! So this way they believe that they are giving her what she really wants which, of course, isn't fair to Elena. However, it makes sense character-wise. Stefan obviously believes that he knows Elena best and what she wants. And Damon just goes along with that because, well, based on what's been said to him (mostly from Elena, but he's certainly heard it or gotten that impression strongly from others). High-handed, but it makes sense because of (a) the time period they come from when men made all the decisions traditionally, and (b) Elena, because she hasn't wanted to deal with her feelings for Damon, has pretty much gone along with Stefan's narrative from the get-go.
archangel_blood: D/E sinner like mearchangel_blood on May 5th, 2012 09:41 am (UTC)
I am (mostly) happy with the episode. It wasn't perfect by any stretch, but it did keep me interested from start to finish (as opposed to last week, where I got distracted by my manicure of all things and forgot what I was watching); it cracked me up a good few times and yes, Damon and Klaus were just awesome (deadly psycho first-graders FTW!).

Most of all, I was thrilled that everyone had finally decided to try a little honesty for a change; Elena, the Salvatores, even Jeremy, what with him telling Stefan to fuck off and leave (go Jeremy!) After the infuriating denial and ostrich-like behaviour of 3x20, it was just a tiny breath of fresh air to hear them acknowledge some of the huge elephants in the room. Still a long way to go though; plus, I'm not convinced whether Stefan was trying to be honest or manipulative, as usual. I guess for him the two are interchangeable/same.

Yeah, I'm not really feeling Vampire!Alaric for some reason either.

As for Elena's choice, I'm getting close to the point where I just want it to be over with, whatever the hell she decides to do. Not really the kind of frustration the writers are going for, I assume. But yes, I'm also going to wait until I've seen the finale before I say more.
Arabian: Damon & Elena15arabian on May 6th, 2012 11:38 am (UTC)
I am (mostly) happy with the episode.

There was lots I liked (Damon! Klaus!), but this inexplicable MAKE A CHOICE stuff was just, frankly, stupid.

Damon and Klaus were just awesome (deadly psycho first-graders FTW!

PERFECT description. :D

Most of all, I was thrilled that everyone had finally decided to try a little honesty for a change; Elena, the Salvatores, even Jeremy, what with him telling Stefan to fuck off and leave (go Jeremy!) After the infuriating denial and ostrich-like behaviour of 3x20, it was just a tiny breath of fresh air to hear them acknowledge some of the huge elephants in the room.

Right, I did like the honesty, I just didn't get where Elena saying what she did, how she did. It was just ... now, really? Right now, in the middle of this stuff. But, it was acknowledgement to both guys without saying it (yes, I made out with you a few days ago -- to Damon, yes, I asked you out on a date last night and we had a moment or two -- to Stefan), but it was just baldly handled.

I'm not convinced whether Stefan was trying to be honest or manipulative, as usual.

I think Stefan was being honest to his reality, which just happens to be a manipulation that he's concocted of actual reality, LOL! Oh, Stefan. Boo, you've got issues.

As for Elena's choice, I'm getting close to the point where I just want it to be over with, whatever the hell she decides to do.

Not for me. If she chooses Stefan, fully and completely and it's clear that it's absolutely what she wants, and not even a choice she makes based on it being the safe, in-denial-mode-is-best fashion ... then I'm done stanning for the show because it basically goes against EVERYTHING I thought has been building throughout the series. :(

Not really the kind of frustration the writers are going for, I assume.

They really need to wake up and realize that there are three main factions related to the triangle. D/E fans, S/E fans and non-triangle fans who don't care either way -- right now, they are pissing all three off, and the D/E fans VERY MUCH outnumber the S/E fans, so all logic would dictate they drop the triangle pretty much, work Stefan into another story and concentrate on developing Damon and Elena's relationship. Yes, the S/E fans will be pissed -- but the two much bigger fanbases will finally be happy with the show. Drives me batty.

But yes, I'm also going to wait until I've seen the finale before I say more.

Yuppers.
(no subject) - archangel_blood on May 6th, 2012 01:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on May 7th, 2012 12:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Olga: TVD | D/E | 3x09 | Mirror.dreamingahead on May 5th, 2012 11:50 am (UTC)
Definitely a better episode than last week, but like yourself, I've also been utterly displeased with how everyone has swept Stefan's misdeeds under the rug like they were nbd these past two weeks. Sadly, I don't think we'll get any of that in the finale, either, Stefan will forever be 'the better brother' in everyone's eyes no matter what he does... which means the events of this season have been a bit of a waste in terms of his character growth. I've expected such great things from that storyline - it even made me interested in Stefan's character! - but it's rapidly falling on its face. *sigh*

Was also very amused by Klaus' disappointment at not being able to play mad!arsonist with Elena's house because she wasn't in it. The escalation from a newspaper to a can of gasoline was priceless and a great performance by JM. Same for the Klaroline scene - definitely agree that their connection seems much stronger than the one T/C have. I'm glad that Klaus was put down (grew pretty tired of everyone going on about how he should be killed & never succeeding tbh!) but isn't dead because that opens the possibility of them revisiting the Klaroline relationship at some point.


Yeah, last week was ABSOLUTELY Caroline projecting her situation onto Elena. Abso-fucking-lutely.


I frowned at Caroline's speech about it being "Stefan's turn" so much last week, and you've just made me feel better about that scene. I think you're right!

... and the gang will stop treating him like a pimple on Satan's ass.

All I ever wanted tbh. Also, LMAO @ that particular mental imagery.

It just seems like Damon (and to a degree that isn't 'she's just my slightly older sister mentality,' Elena) is the only person that Jeremy listens to.

IA. Probably b/c Jeremy can always count on Damon telling him how it is.

"Get Stefan" definitely felt a random request, I suppose Elena was losing her ability to think clearly by that point with all the blood loss. :| & omg all this ~choice business, it is the worst. We get that she has to make one W/O having to hear it repeated in every other line on the show, tyvm, TVD. You're right, they're definitely started telling us more than showing, and while it's validating in a way, it's also kind of... annoying.


... essentially planning on doing the VERY THING that Elena just told them was her big fear, losing either of them.

UGH. SO MANY ISSUES W/ THIS. D: D:

I mean, I appreciated Stefan calling Klaus out on driving a wedge b/w the brothers & even liked him a little, and then he ruined it again by reverting to being a douche. It was for his own benefit, too, "staying away from e/o" for 60 years doesn't make it sound like it's for the benefit of their brotherly relationship.


And, erm Ric -- since he was being all zoom-y and supernatural in front of them there.

HEH, hypocrite!Ric preaching monsters being harbored in Mystic Falls in front of the Council was hilarious. Is he really going to be the surprise!big bad of the season? Not feeling it tbh, but go ahead and convince me, season finale!


Arabian: DE & Stefan01arabian on May 6th, 2012 11:46 am (UTC)
Definitely a better episode than last week, but like yourself, I've also been utterly displeased with how everyone has swept Stefan's misdeeds under the rug like they were nbd these past two weeks. Sadly, I don't think we'll get any of that in the finale, either, Stefan will forever be 'the better brother' in everyone's eyes no matter what he does... which means the events of this season have been a bit of a waste in terms of his character growth. I've expected such great things from that storyline - it even made me interested in Stefan's character! - but it's rapidly falling on its face. *sigh*

I'm waiting until the finale. We'll see what happens. They could honestly take care of two of my issues to a degree enough to satisfy me for now with one line from Elena to Stefan about her unable to be with him because of the things he's done (citing the bridge incident specifically would be aces). Just one line, even if she's crying and upset during it, I'm fine with it. But that would acknowledge part of what's wrong with their relationship, and a legitimate consequence to Stefan's actions. We'll see what happens, though.

Was also very amused by Klaus' disappointment at not being able to play mad!arsonist with Elena's house because she wasn't in it. The escalation from a newspaper to a can of gasoline was priceless and a great performance by JM.

It was SO good! I loved it, loved it, loved it!

Same for the Klaroline scene - definitely agree that their connection seems much stronger than the one T/C have.

That was such a powerful scene.

I'm glad that Klaus was put down (grew pretty tired of everyone going on about how he should be killed & never succeeding tbh!) but isn't dead because that opens the possibility of them revisiting the Klaroline relationship at some point.

YES!

I frowned at Caroline's speech about it being "Stefan's turn" so much last week, and you've just made me feel better about that scene. I think you're right!

It just is the ONLY thing that made sense. I don't want to be mad at Caroline, so this helped me deal with that, LOL!

All I ever wanted tbh. Also, LMAO @ that particular mental imagery.

Thank you, I laughed myself. Yes, we need to see better treatment of Damon.

You're right, they're definitely started telling us more than showing, and while it's validating in a way, it's also kind of... annoying.

It was just SO badly done, and SO not like this show. *sigh*

UGH. SO MANY ISSUES W/ THIS. D: D:

I actually feel better about this, and edited in a new part about that thanks to my lovely flist. :) My new read on the scene, still showing Stefan as being selfish, and Damon being stupid for going along, does definitely play it as less selfishly-aware (which is how I genuinely believe that Stefan is -- dude, doesn't realize how selfish he can be). I can see Damon fully believing (and Stefan honestly thinking so as well) that Elena was just being her normal, nice, overly forgiving, big-hearted self and that, of course, she's going to choose Stefan, and of course, she's not going to say, yeah, you can go bye-bye now Damon, see ya! So this way they believe that they are giving her what she really wants which, of course, isn't fair to Elena. However, it makes sense character-wise. Stefan obviously believes that he knows Elena best and what she wants. And Damon just goes along with that because, well, based on what's been said to him (mostly from Elena, but he's certainly heard it or gotten that impression strongly from others). High-handed, but it makes sense because of (a) the time period they come from when men made all the decisions traditionally, and (b) Elena, because she hasn't wanted to deal with her feelings for Damon, has pretty much gone along with Stefan's narrative from the get-go.

Is he really going to be the surprise!big bad of the season? Not feeling it tbh, but go ahead and convince me, season finale!

Pretty much this.
sun_signsun_sign on May 5th, 2012 12:41 pm (UTC)
Have you noticed how your journal has basically become the Hate-On-Stefan Zone in the past few weeks? I mean, look at the comments. Sweet Jesus.
Arabian: Stefan04arabian on May 5th, 2012 01:05 pm (UTC)
No. Nobody is just saying OOOH! STEFAN SUCKS!!! We're talking about his character, and an aspect highlighted in recent episodes that we didn't like about said character if there is no acknowledgment and exploration. There is specific discussion that is clearly coming from a place with most of us responding here who DO like Stefan and want the best in terms of character growth for him. Hate-On-Stefan would be bashing him without any character discussion, or breakdown of what our issue is. I certainly did not do that, nor did anyone else. And, yes, I just reread the comments. Having issue with the writing of a character, with actual, discussion and canon-commentary about what led to us having an issue with that character is not bashing, it's critical discussion. And as someone who reads and responds to all the comments, I can safely, easily say that NO, my journal has NOT become a hate-on-Stefan zone in the past few weeks. Not when there is critical discussion of the entire show, and Stefan's actions -- which aren't finding much favor with people on my flist -- are just one of the areas of critical discussion.

Furthermore, last week -- and even this week -- in my post, I made it clear that I do not think that Stefan is even fully aware of how he does emotionally manipulate. My issue is not with Stefan, it's with the fear that the writers don't realize that this is how some of his actions and words are coming across.* I think, as long as they are aware, and it is gradually addressed and handled as the series continues, it makes Stefan a more interesting character. And that is how many feel here as well who responded.

* Although, in responding above to someone, I'm now more optimistic that they are indeed aware, and they are doing this deliberately as part of his journey.

Edited at 2012-05-05 01:32 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - sun_sign on May 5th, 2012 02:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on May 5th, 2012 02:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Bogwitch: TVD - Katherinebogwitch on May 5th, 2012 02:20 pm (UTC)
OOOH! STEFAN SUCKS!!!

(somebody had to)
Arabian: Stefan03arabian on May 5th, 2012 02:34 pm (UTC)
(LOL! You're so bad!)

Noooooooooooooo! I LUFF STEFAN!

(Just not when he's with Elena, or talking about Elena, or, well, pretty much anything having to do with Elena. She so brings out the worst in him.)
illuminanted: Damon Salvatore ♥illuminanted on May 5th, 2012 03:35 pm (UTC)
First of all, character MVPs tonight were easily Damon and Klaus.
No doubt there... Though, Damon is no surprise for me either...

I, especially loved the scenes where he kept throwing different objects into the Gilbert house to push them into granting him entry, so cracked me up.
I loved that scene, too! It was very entertaining, clever and fresh with the Damon/Klaus duo. And it really does make you wonder, how come others havened tried this tactic before... (though, I guess it would be pretty obvious for the citizens of Mystic Falls that this is no ordinary break-in but whatever... :D)

And the best part was how disappointed he was when he couldn't go all the way.
Hahaha, I haven't noticed that look before so thank you so much for pointing it out.

Finally, I also loved the moment he shared with Caroline -- these two have more emotion and chemistry in their mostly wordless minute-long scene than Tyler and Caroline have in all of their scenes since his return
I loved this scene! It was so charged with emotion and it made me long for more scenes of them (which I did not expect) which is why, I was so disappointed when Klaus 'died' because I think it certainly will be a while before he comes back.

And that included his attitude when Klaus was attacking the house. The others are all ducking, hiding -- you know, like sane people, LOL! Damon? Is all "missed me! Nyeah nyeah nyeah!" Oh, Damon. I love you so. I also about died at that look he gave Bonnie after Abby wouldn't take the blood from him. It was just ... seriously, ultra perfection.
THIS! Can he be more amazing?

So pretty, pretty please tell me that this is a sign that the attitude crapola that is directed towards Damon on a regular basis will wain
Here's for hoping. (This has been one of the things that has constantly irritated and annoyed me, therefore, I will be more than glad to put that problem behind me.)
Arabian: Damon08arabian on May 6th, 2012 12:01 pm (UTC)
it really does make you wonder, how come others havened tried this tactic before

Well, I suppose your next statement answers it. Most vampires try to keep it underwraps. Klaus doesn't care, LOL! Still, it was so amusing to watch.

It was so charged with emotion and it made me long for more scenes of them

It really was. Great scene. I don't know, I think he'll be back before too long. I don't think THAT many episodes will pass without Klaus back on his feet, but I guess, we'll see.

This has been one of the things that has constantly irritated and annoyed me, therefore, I will be more than glad to put that problem behind me.

Yes. It just drives me mad, and does adversely affect my enjoyment of an episode.
illuminanted: Damon Salvatore ♥illuminanted on May 5th, 2012 03:35 pm (UTC)
Not one of the three, but something that would make me very, very happy as well would be a strengthening of a relationship between Damon and Jeremy. The actors (and character dynamics) just work so well together.
THIS! I love their dynamic and the way they interact! And I also loved how that certain scene you mentioned played out - with Jeremy, yet again, listening to Damon.

I can't help it, I love them, I want these two to work their way back to each other.
I love them, too! Frankly, I have no idea how did I grow into liking them that much ('cause I did not expect that either.) but I just can't help but want them together again...

Another thing that makes me go hmm... Please explain me to me like I'm stupid why the hell Elena told Tyler to "Get Stefan" as she was BEING DRAINED OF BLOOD?!?!?!??!?!?!?
THIS SO MUCH! I was like: Hello?! Have you lost your memory or something?!

My problem is that other than Julie Plec talking about Elena's choice ad nauseum in interviews, prior to Klaus' incongruous mention of Elena's choice to Stefan in last week's episode, where is this choice suddenly coming from? Why now? Why is it happening now? Why? They're in the middle of a huge crisis ... but wait, Elena's gotta decide who she wants to play snuggle bunnies with and fuck? Seriously?!
This is exactly how I feel about the timing of this 'choice'. I mean, of course, a choice HAS to be made but why now? (other than that it is the end of the season and they have to end with a bang of some sort...)

"The Murder of One" with Damon's kidnapping would have been the perfect episode to do so, but they dropped the ball there. Instead, we got very little reaction from Elena, jumping Damon in the next episode, and then making goo-goo eyes at Stefan in the following.
Yes... that was... just... poorly executed and... weirdly did plot and emotionally-wise.

And because of how off they've handled this, I kept expecting Damon to go "Wait? What? I'm actually a legit option here?!" because there's certainly been nothing that showed her feelings for him truly past 3.11 beyond her attempting to satisfy her lust in 3.19 -- and yeah, with NOTHING ELSE in the two episodes that followed it, and all of the episodes preceding it after 3.11, it did play out like lust
EXACTLY! I mean, I know that it wasn't just lust either but it certainly looked like it, especially with everything else that followed.

Still, I DID like the brothers' scene in the car. Even if they were completely disregarding Elena's wishes, I won't take away from the fact that they were choosing to not let another girl tear them apart. I also liked that Stefan saw right through Klaus' attempt to put a wedge between the brothers, and calmly put him down with a smug smile. Still, there was the moment when Klaus went down, and the look on Stefan's face ... I don't know, but I certainly got the impression that feelings came to the surface that Stefan had submerged.
Everything about this perfectly sums up my thoughts.

Oh, that opening with the Civil War memorabilia just broke my heart because I have so dreamed of Alaric and Damon having a conversation about the war with Ric plying Damon with question after question since Damon was a soldier. Now ... it will never happen. WAH!
Awwww, now you made me want this SO MUCH! It seems like such an amazing scene! (maybe somebody will write an awesome fanfic about it.)
Arabian: Damon&Alaric03arabian on May 6th, 2012 12:05 pm (UTC)
I love their dynamic and the way they interact! And I also loved how that certain scene you mentioned played out - with Jeremy, yet again, listening to Damon.

Jeremy and Damon are just such a wonderful fit; I really hope we see exploration of that relationship SO BADLY! (Of course, I've been hoping for that since the end of season 01.)

Have you lost your memory or something?!

I kid you not. I spent the ENTIRE episode randomly repeating to myself incredulously "Get Stefan?! Really?!" SO STUPID.

I mean, of course, a choice HAS to be made but why now?

Honestly, it's not even so much that she's making the choice now, it's that they are talking about it as if it MATTERS AT ALL right now. And it so does not! If it were to happen naturally, that would be different, but actually discussing it ... flat-out saying the words, it's just stupid.

It seems like such an amazing scene! (maybe somebody will write an awesome fanfic about it.)

I've thought of doing so, but never managed to get it started. Someday maybe. :)
Cassandra Elise: damon/elena dancingcassandra_elise on May 5th, 2012 05:51 pm (UTC)
I need more TVD icons...Just a couple of quick comments: I loved Jeremy's reaction when Stefan and Elena were making googly eyes at each other at the beginning. One, because Stefan has been a first-rate jerk since very recently, and it would've been annoying if everybody just magically forgave him, and Second, because Jeremy was witness to the mega-hot make-out session between Damon and Elena. I'm sure he's wondering what game his sister is exactly playing with these two guys, which would naturally make him a bit peevish to see her snogging one brother one moment and then flirting with the other the next. I also loved how he responded to Damon's orders over Stefan's. Damon just demands respect! :)

The ridiculous--albeit well-intentioned--vow that Stefan and Damon made at the end had me rolling my eyes. The way Stefan spoke, I felt like he was absolutely confident that Elena would pick him over his brother, and his words just felt like hot air. Which made Damon's hesitance all the more sad, because he honestly figures he doesn't have a shot in hell of being chosen over his brother. That being said, these are my predictions for the finale: Elena will initially pick Stefan because he's the "safe" choice. She already knows what it's like to be his girlfriend and all the sweet and noble gestures he can make. And right now her life is in so much upheaval due to Alaric's demise and her poor friends being tortured/having their mothers turned to vampires, that she will want a semblance of safety and security in her life.

HOWEVER....Elena won't know about the stupid-ass promise the brothers made, and so she'll naturally assume that when she chooses Stefan, Damon will go back to being the noble friend for her who always has her back and always comes through for her and her friends. And then Damon will come to say goodbye for Good and Elena will be all, "Whut? But...but you can't leave me!" Which will lead to Elena's ultimate decision. Julie Plec said in a recent interview that the choice will come down to which of the brothers Elena can't live without. Elena proved throughout this season while Stefan was on his ripper!binge that she could live just fine without him, but can she handle a life without Damon? I don't think so. You've pointed out time and time again in your recaps how the whole team, especially Elena, takes Damon for granted. I really feel this is gonna come into play in the finale. Elena will finally realize which brother has always been there for her, even when she was treating him like crap, and she'll realize that she can't let him go. <3
sassy, classy, and a bit smart-assy: TVD: Damon hospitalbadboy_fangirl on May 5th, 2012 08:18 pm (UTC)
This final paragraph gives me hope too. Thanks for saying all of that. Elena lived just fine without Stefan--when Damon left her she almost died. It's symbolic. I LOVE IT. *hope, hope, hope*
(no subject) - cassandra_elise on May 6th, 2012 02:41 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on May 6th, 2012 11:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
Florencia: DEflorencia7 on May 5th, 2012 10:05 pm (UTC)
"And what is Stefan's response? To tell Damon that if Elena chooses Damon, Stefan will leave town, and then he pretty much guilted Damon into responding in kind ... essentially planning on doing the VERY THING that Elena just told them was her big fear, losing either of them." - My sentiments exactly! It's like Stefan wasn't even listening to what she was saying lol

"My big wish has been that the writers do realize how manipulative (although, I still maintain that he isn't doing it on purpose, it's just his amazing ability to completely convince himself of his "truth"), and that any lack of commentary of such is them just trolling." - I really hope that's the case.

The Klaus/Caroline scene was very beautiful & who knows, when the spell wearies off they might actually have a chance some time in, I don't know, S6 lol

As for the finale, I'm worried that all this publicity & blatant statements within the show itself that "Elena's choice" gets, can only mean that she either a) won't make any actual D/S-related choice, b) her choice won't be a clear, conscious decision, c) she will make a choice, but then something that will invalidate her choice happens, d) she will "choose" one of them to "protect" the other, which will be a convenient way of making it perfectly unclear as to where her heart truly is (more).
Arabian: Damon & Elena05arabian on May 5th, 2012 10:37 pm (UTC)
My sentiments exactly! It's like Stefan wasn't even listening to what she was saying lol

As I said though in my ETA, I do think it makes perfect sense and wasn't actually Stefan being deliberately selfish, you know?

I really hope that's the case.

It's the only thing that makes sense, and again with my other ETA, the fact that they only talk positive about EVERY character and relationship is telling.

The Klaus/Caroline scene was very beautiful & who knows, when the spell wearies off they might actually have a chance some time in, I don't know, S6 lol,

Ah, I think we'll get some good stuff in season 04. :)

Re: Elena's choice. Nope, it's been made VERY clear that she DOES make a choice between the brothers. Period. I think she's believes she's going to choose Stefan as the safe choice she knows especially with everything so crazy in her life, and then the situation that Julie described about a moment coming where she has to be with one, she'll realize in that moment that she can't be without Damon, and it will be Damon. However, I COMPLETELY expect something to happen which will make Damon/Elena not able to be with each other after she makes her choice, not invalidating it, but delaying the relationship. Which I'm fine with because Elena chose Damon, and it just means even more that they are indeed the endgame couple. :D
jamdouradojamdourado on May 6th, 2012 04:03 am (UTC)
It was a very good chapter much better than last week's.
Well, I'm still annoyed with Stefan being the good brother again and trying to go back as the used to be. I was so proud of Jeremy when he said he wanted one day without vampires, because they were supposed to mourn their last parental figure and Stefan had zero bonding with Ric, I think it wasn't his place to be there. And another thing that I didn't like was when Stefan told Klaus he would leave town with Elena, and I was just "What?? No!!" because Elena would never be OK being away from the people she loves . But good thing on this scene is that he showed that his relationship with Damon wouldn't be affected with Elena's choice.
I just loved Klaus on this episode, specially the part when he throws the soccer ball and the fences and Damon is jut "Lol you missed it". And the Klaroline scene was so cute. She realized that he really cares about her.
I don't know how Elena will choose one of them on the finale, she still doesn't know what she feels for Damon, I guess Damon will have to be between life and death(again) for her to finally admit she loves him. Maybe she will choose Stefan because he is good again. I don't know, they wanted to make Elena's choice on the finale, but I can't see her choosing neither right now, I wanted Elena to just stop worrying about choosing one of the brothers and live her life.
Arabian: Damon & Elena09arabian on May 6th, 2012 11:57 am (UTC)
Stefan had zero bonding with Ric, I think it wasn't his place to be there

Agreed. Stefan was just stepping back into the boyfriend role after 3.20 as if he had that right. Ugh.

I didn't like was when Stefan told Klaus he would leave town with Elena, and I was just "What?? No!!" because Elena would never be OK being away from the people she loves

See, I've read others reading it that way, but I didn't at all. I got Stefan saying that he would go with Klaus IN PLACE OF Elena. Basically doing what he did for Damon last season. Walking away from everyone and everything he loves to keep Elena safe, as he did for Damon last season.

I think the "choosing" is being pushed in a ridiculous way. I do think that when it comes down to it, she will choose Damon, but something will happen where they can't be together, but that just shows even more that they are THE couple. :D
k_stjamesk_stjames on May 6th, 2012 06:00 pm (UTC)
As always you have managed to speak the truth. I think this episode highlighted so many problems with the storytelling throughout the season. Klaus saves Caroline and they share a powerful moment and then nothing. They should have shown her have a second of doubt or loss in the kitchen but instead she was too busy pouring shots to reflect on a person who while yes didn't horrible, evil things did get her thinking about life and helped her adjust. I really hope they show Caroline next season struggling with what Klaus awakened in her.

This quote is perfect; "They did such a fantastic job setting up Damon and Elena in the first half of the season, that in order to make it "even" between Stefan and Damon when it comes to her choice, they had to essentially take Damon out of the equation for eight episodes in the second half (12-18, 20). And then ham-handedly throw Stefan back into the mix, with nary a nod to the horrific things he's done ... because no sane person with any actual character motivation would be even considering Stefan romantically AT ALL in this point in time." I had such high hopes for this season and parts of it came true but then they just ruined everything and there is nothing they can do to fix it. Elena falling in love with Damon and showing it, the fallout of Stefan's Ripper phase and how it impacts his relationships, Stefan's realization that there is something strong and powerful between Damon and Elena, Stefan deciding to fix his life and fight for his love because he understands the strength of DE, Elena realizing that Damon and Stefan are both equals a romantic leads. All of these firsts were mishandled and story-fails for me and you just don't get those moments back. . .3 years of build up wasted to a large degree.

I also thought the porch scene failed because Damon doesn't have a clue he's in the running. How could he, the girl he loves kisses the hell out of him and then tells him she did it as an experiment and then has the gall to ask his brother out on a date. So very wrong. Plus her whole speech about not being able to lose anyone else rang false for me because Stefan's been gone for months and she was fine. So if what she was really saying was I can't lose anyone else so I will pick Stefan because I know Damon won't leave but she doesn't trust Stefan to do the same then she is being incrediably selfish to want Damon to stick around and watch her love someone else just so she doesn't have to suffer and that made me lose more sympathy with her. All around an epic fail of a scene for me and all it did was highlight just how badly the writers have manged the triange since they decided to focus on it the latter part of the season.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Arabian: Ian & Nina(PS)01arabian on May 7th, 2012 11:47 am (UTC)
Part 1 of 2 --

As always you have managed to speak the truth.

Hmm, thank you, but I actually disagree with you about a few things. :(

I think this episode highlighted so many problems with the storytelling throughout the season.

I didn't actually get that. Other than the "CHOICE" bald statements, I actually didn't have problems with the episode.

Klaus saves Caroline and they share a powerful moment and then nothing. They should have shown her have a second of doubt or loss in the kitchen but instead she was too busy pouring shots to reflect on a person who while yes didn't horrible, evil things did get her thinking about life and helped her adjust. I really hope they show Caroline next season struggling with what Klaus awakened in her.

Actually, for me, had they showed Caroline having any doubt or thoughts about Klaus at that point, I would have probably thrown my hands up in the air in frustration. That she could even entertain that after all he'd done, and what he had JUST done (ie, JUST tried to drain Elena of all blood and kill her), for one small moment in which he'd helped her, when she still treats Damon like crap after EVERYTHING he has done to save them all (including her) several times would have driven me insane. I can see a moment when she's alone thinking about it, but then with her friends, where they were all alive after being terrorized by Klaus for however long, yeah, I would have been frustrated had she shown a moment then and there, personally.

I had such high hopes for this season and parts of it came true but then they just ruined everything and there is nothing they can do to fix it.

I don't completely agree. Yes, there are still definite flaws, but something that shows that Elena realizes it can't happen with Stefan again, and she was just being in denial would go a LONG way to fixing my main issue with the season. Plus, it would show a TRUE consequence to Stefan's actions.

Elena falling in love with Damon and showing it, the fallout of Stefan's Ripper phase and how it impacts his relationships, Stefan's realization that there is something strong and powerful between Damon and Elena, Stefan deciding to fix his life and fight for his love because he understands the strength of DE, Elena realizing that Damon and Stefan are both equals a romantic leads. All of these firsts were mishandled and story-fails for me and you just don't get those moments back. . .3 years of build up wasted to a large degree.

See, I think that as long as we get some acknowledgement of this stuff then it's a sign that they DO get it, and it's setting up the journey of these characters dealing with it. So I'm willing to wait until after the finale to pronounce this all a waste.

I also thought the porch scene failed because Damon doesn't have a clue he's in the running. How could he, the girl he loves kisses the hell out of him and then tells him she did it as an experiment and then has the gall to ask his brother out on a date.

Well, you just said it there -- "the girl he loves kisses the hell out of him" -- so clearly he's got SOME game here. It could (and should) have been handled better, but I don't think it was that off. And he DID tell her to figure things out, so going with Stefan very well fell under that direction.

TBC
(no subject) - arabian on May 7th, 2012 11:47 am (UTC) (Expand)