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27 April 2012 @ 12:08 pm
3.20 - 'Do Not Go Gentle' (The Vampire Diaries) Take Two  
Okay then, take two on "Do Not Go Gentle." Still not as wordy as usual, but still pretty durn wordy. :)

The key word of the episode was denial. Everyone was in denial, some in deeper than others, some traversing in an arena they rarely do, others happily setting up camp in a very familiar place. But every major character was swimming deep in denial.

Elena and Stefan are the queen and king of denial and have been since we first met them. After a season of both being forced to increasingly accept reality and stop playing pretend, each jumped right back into their emotionally unhealthy co-dependent relationship where they could fall back into their safety bubble of not. dealing. with it. Elena began the episode not so much, expressing to Caroline that she couldn't just test-drive where she stood with Stefan after making out with his brother. However, Caroline was too busy projecting her own predicament onto Elena's situation to stop and actually listen, be there for her friend. Stefan does not equal Tyler. For all of his faults, Tyler does not emotionally manipulate Caroline. Nor has he gone beyond dickish, stupid-teenage-boy behavior in his treatment of her. Stefan has. And perhaps Caroline is unaware of the depths to which Stefan has sunk -- we've certainly been given no indication that she knows about all of his summer murders (those were attributed to Klaus by both Elena and Caroline before Damon told Elena the hard truth that it was Stefan's dirty work). Nor do we know if Caroline knows about what what Stefan did to Elena on Wickery Bridge, or his callous disregard for the nearly fatal danger he put Jeremy in through his vengeful actions. Based on her attitude towards Stefan, I'm choosing to believe that she doesn't know the specifics ... because I love Caroline and to believe otherwise will make me love her a bit less. (And it's certainly in character that Elena would not have shared those experiences because they hurt too much.)

On the flip side, Damon does not equal Klaus. Whatever bad stuff Damon has done -- and it has been bad -- the vast majority of it took place over a month-span when he first arrived in town and his switch was off. Other than the Jeremy-incident (brought on by emotional upheaval, and if Elena and Jeremy are okay with him on that score, as they both appear to be, Caroline has no place to judge). Beyond that month, and we're at about a year and a half now in the show's timeline, other than being a snarky ass, Damon has saved ALL of their lives on a regular basis and has worked relentlessly to keep things on track, making the hard choices that no one else will make because they hurt ... they motherfucking HURT! Klaus? Is a sick, twisted puppy who tortures, kllls, treats everyone around him like a chess piece that he can play with and use/abuse at his whim. He's sociopathic, killing machine who has no regard for anyone or anything. No comparison. Yet, it is easier for Caroline to project her in-denial feelings about Tyler and Klaus onto Elena about Stefan and Damon, slotting the brothers in the roles that her beaux play.

And she is in denial. Deep. She told Tyler that she loved him for the first time, but it certainly wasn't this big moment at all. It was almost throw-away, in fact. And Tyler decided to dip into denial himself by accepting her love at face value and denying the reality of that *something* between her and Klaus, and also denying the power that Klaus has, even without the sire bond. Because it's easier to pretend that he's not in competition with Klaus for Caroline's affection, and that he has a chance should Klaus decide that's it. And Caroline knows that, which aids in her refusal to acknowledge even to herself that she IS intrigued by Klaus, and she won't, can't admit that; she feels guilty. So she tells Tyler that she loves him, she tells him that Klaus means nothing to her, and refuses to face the reality of the situation. Caroline did keep that drawing Klaus did ... by her bed. She also kept his jewelry. She is intrigued by him, by what he tells her, by the fact that this all-powerful creature seems to have one weakness, and that weakness is her. Being a vampire heightens aspects of personality. As a human, Caroline was petty, shallow, selfish and vain. Klaus' attention and all that it represents taps into those aspects of her personality and heightens them even moreso. And she simply can not, will not deal with that. She is in denial.

As, of course, is Elena. Like I said she started out the episode attempting to face the reality of the situation she is in with the brothers, but when Caroline poo-pooh that idea, Elena jumped on it like white on rice. From the moment she called him, you could see the mantle of the girl she used to be falling over her. So she was giddy and and she was happy. As she was when Stefan said yes, when Stefan showed up, when Stefan took her to the dance and said pretty words that put a soothing bandage over all of the confusion and awfulness. Never mind that there was absolutely NO dealing with the fall-out of anything. Not Stefan's awful actions, not the distance between them, not what happened with Damon in Denver. It's so much easier to pretend that she loves only Stefan, and that what happened with Damon was an aberration, and his telling her off was a good way to have a clean break. If she pretends it didn't happen, and stays away from him, then she can keep her happy reality that she isn't like Katherine, that she isn't stringing the brothers along, that she doesn't have feelings for both. It's just Stefan, always Stefan -- their bubble of pretense and delusion once more intact. Yup, their scenes showed, once again, that these two do not deal with reality. And it was very pointed. They didn't discuss ANYTHING of depth at all. Even references to what happened this season was glossed over in a joking way. Or flat-out misstated.

Instead of Stefan apologizing for what he did specifically, he made vague references ... because the reality would break the mood. When Stefan talked about going to the dance despite their past dance experiences, Elena ascribed the finding moments of normalcy in the crazy to Stefan as if it was a good thing. And it would be, if it were not THEIR brand of "normalcy." Because their brand of normalcy ignores the reality and thus the danger of the situation. And later, Stefan turned that conversation around to say that Elena told him he could feel. Sure, she did, once or twice, but the main instigator in getting Stefan on track, to where he is at a somewhat healthier place has been his brother. But nope, based on Stefan's words to Elena, it's all about her ... Damon isn't part of the equation at all. Except that he is. But Stefan doesn't want to talk about Damon, because that opens the door for Elena to talk about Damon and we can't have that. As I said in my first post, Elena actually attempted honesty with Stefan with regards to Damon. However, Stefan wasn't having it. Nope, it's much better to just sweep it under the rug, Stefan's M.O. to a tee, and the Stefan/Elena relationship in a nutshell.

And, by the end of the episode, Elena was right back in the mindset that she was when with Stefan before -- deny! deny! deny! don't face reality because it hurts. One night, that's all it took before they both fell back into the unhealthy patterns of their relationship. Stefan emotionally manipulating her grief over Alaric to make inroads, ignoring his own brother -- who was grieving -- in the process. Once again, Stefan put his selfish wants and desires above everyone else. I'm not saying that I think that Stefan is being deliberately deceptive and emotionally manipulative; he's completely convinced himself of all that he says. It's how he functions. He finds a reality that works best for him, and then convinces himself of the purity of that reality and runs with it. And then ignores, glosses over, brushes aside anything that contradicts said reality.

Obviously something happened with Damon and Elena in Denver, or she wouldn't have brought it up, but she was there, in his arms, and talking about Damon would just address the elephant in the room, and upset the happy result of that trip in Stefan's opinion. I said after the last episode:

After their, erm, discussion, do Damon and Elena go back to the wary, uncomfortable interaction that they've shared since the events of the Mikaelson ball? Interaction that Stefan doesn't understand is just a part of their push-pull dynamic, and only sees as them not getting along. And if so, will that, along with he and Elena at the 20's dance, lead him to believe that his supposition was correct … that Elena doesn't actually have feelings for Damon, and the road-trip accomplished what he expected it to? I don't know. We'll see.
Based on Elena asking him to the dance, his response, and the bit of interaction between Damon and Elena, Stefan did in fact seem like that is exactly where his mindset was. Denial, it is the other half of Stefan's OTP.

And speaking of Damon, for one of the few times ever, we saw him in denial as well. His almost callous commentary about providing a mercy killing for Ric when speaking to Elena and Stefan (although, yeah, he was right) disguised his pain over the situation. And in the end, he waited outside denying that Ric didn't want to be alone because it would hurt to be with him. But -- unlike Elena, and Jeremy -- Damon once again took the hard hit, made the hard choice and stuck around to watch his friend fade away. No one else was willing to do that. But Damon did. Because Damon *always* makes the tough choices. And this was a choice that Elena couldn't make. That Jeremy couldn't make. Instead, Elena ran away and then allowed Stefan to draw her back into the save haven of his arms -- never mind that the safe haven is based on a lie and she *knows* that now; she just won't deal with it. She won't stand by Damon, or Jeremy, the two people who love Alaric as much as she does because it would hurt too much. Stefan gave her "permission" to feel, but she was already feeling. What she needed was to deal with what was happening, with Ric dying, with what could happen to Jeremy with Ric gone, with the Esther situation. And instead of letting her deal and acknowledge that stuff -- as she was beginning too -- Stefan took her away from Ric's apartment, and back to school, the remnants of the dance, so that he could turn it around and turn her pain and vulnerability into a reason to turn to him ... only him. And she took it. Because it was easier to fall back into that pattern where as much as it hurt to feel, it didn't hurt as much to deal with what was hurting.

And because Elena was swayed from dealing, so was Jeremy. Instead of staying with Ric, staying with his sister, he took off -- with that ring still on his finger -- and shut himself off from dealing with losing Ric. And because neither Elena nor Jeremy would stand and face reality, stay with Ric in his final moments, instead leaving it for Damon to deal with it, deal with the messy aftermath, deal with the pain, he was left alone and BonnEsther was able to easily move in on the near-dead Alaric. Would Esther have been able to complete her plan with Alaric had Jeremy and Elena been there? Probably. However, there is the chance that Bonnie's love for Elena and Jeremy would have been strong enough to control Esther long enough for Alaric to die. But we'll never know because Elena and Jeremy were off not dealing so Esther was able to carry out her plan through her "sister."

Oh, Bonnie. Yeah, I was initially really upset with Bonnie for her comment to Damon about there always is another choice ... but, denial! She knows there was no other choice, and that what Damon did was the best option as horrible as it was. She knows that, but it's easier to blame Damon for doing what he did to Abby, than to accept her own responsibility in bringing her mother into the situation. Abby was safe, away from all of this madness, but Bonnie found her, Bonnie essentially guilted her into helping and the end result was Abby's death and turning. It's just so much easier to blame Damon because that helps alleviate that guilt and that hurt that Bonnie feels. And that's the role Damon's chosen to play; he's the bad guy, making the hard choices, so that they all have someone to hate rather than themselves.

Which is what Klaus continually plays when it comes to Stefan. Being the bad guy so that Stefan won't hate himself. We heard that in "The Murder of One," and then saw him try to reconnect with Stefan again in "Heart of Darkness." And like everyone else, he's in denial, for him, it's about Stefan. He refuses to accept that he won't ever get his friend back, and so he keeps pushing, keeps prodding. Joining everyone else for a swim in denial.

Except Alaric. He was the only major character tonight who was completely aware and accepting of the reality of the situation. And, yet in the end, because everyone else wasn't, he was screwed. Of course.

So, two episodes left and what happened with Damon and Elena in Denver simply has to be dealt with. The fact that it wasn't at all in this episode, I'm choosing to believe now is because those emotions will erupt in a way that NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THE THREE can ignore (much like Stefan being forced to realize that he was willing to do anything to save Damon's life without any excuses that it had to do with anything else in "Homecoming"). If I'm wrong, I'm wrong and this show has truly played me for a fool. Ah well. More's the fool them because I won't be the only one who walks away. But, the last two finales have managed to make *most* of my issues with the season work and make sense, bringing the larger picture into focus. Two more episodes, they can certainly pull it off. So, once again, I'm putting my irrational, emotional self to the side, and giving them the benefit of the doubt that this will all play out as it's certainly appeared all season that it would.
 
 
 
x5valex5vale on April 27th, 2012 04:20 pm (UTC)
You know I am kinda sick of people confusing the roles: making tha hardest choices and be the bad guy, is totally different.

As you said, what has Damon done to be classified as the bad guy lately?

So even if I am totally with you about your analsys of Bonnie and the others being in denial..well this attitude starts to piss me off. Denial can't be a justification for everything, so they better stop to write these characters as people who don't reasonate. It doesn't work for long.

At this point, the triangle is not even what I am interested in the most. I want the characters to see Damon for who he is. Because this is what pisses me off the most. How they deny what they see every single day...I wihs Damon could leave town and let them dealing with their own problems. I have the feeling none will make it alive.
Arabian: Damon & Elena20arabian on April 27th, 2012 04:26 pm (UTC)
Oh, I completely agree. Damon needs to stop being everybody's whipping boy. Part of the problem, though, IS Damon. He expects to be treated like he bad guy, and acts the snarky jerk so that when they are mean to him, it's okay because he didn't put himself out there expecting them to treat him any better. It's a never-ending cycle and it needs to STOP!

I want the characters to see Damon for who he is.

YES!

I wish Damon could leave town and let them dealing with their own problems. I have the feeling none will make it alive.

AGREED 100%

Edited at 2012-04-27 04:26 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - x5vale on April 27th, 2012 05:18 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 27th, 2012 05:22 pm (UTC) (Expand)
kilodalton: TVD damon elena lakekilodalton on April 27th, 2012 05:12 pm (UTC)
I adore your metas. That is all =)
Arabian: Damon & Elena05arabian on April 27th, 2012 05:13 pm (UTC)
Aww, thanks hun! :)
sassy, classy, and a bit smart-assy: TVD: Damon WTFbadboy_fangirl on April 27th, 2012 05:39 pm (UTC)
All I can say is I hope so. I hope they are that aware and that these were their intentions.
Arabian: Damon & Jeremy01arabian on April 27th, 2012 05:54 pm (UTC)
Give it to the end of the season, and we'll know -- and if I'm wrong, then, like I said -- we won't be the only viewers who walk.
(no subject) - badboy_fangirl on April 27th, 2012 08:30 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 27th, 2012 08:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
sillyforwordssillyforwords on April 27th, 2012 06:20 pm (UTC)
Denial is fine as long as it is (if ever) followed by an epiphany, you know? Without that pay off, though, it just gets painful to watch.

I watch the show and I wonder if the writers are seeing what I'm seeing about Stefan and his relationship with Elena. But then I read JP's interviews about how magnanimous it was of Stefan to "allow" Elena to go to Denver with Damon, how kind hearted he was and I sit here shaking my head at how wrong I am in my interpretation of the show. Why don't I see what she's saying, what's wrong with me?

It just bums me out that of all the characters it's always Damon that gets the short end of the stick, the target of the denials you laid out, the type casting as the bad boy and whatever he does he can never catch a break. No one else seems to get that kind of treatment. It's very disheartening.

Once upon a time Elena was very good at seeing the man behind the mask. I remember her being there for him when Rose died. She came back to check on him, hugged him and comforted him. I really miss that closeness between the two. Where did that go? *cries* I miss seasons 1 & 2.
Arabian: Damon02arabian on April 27th, 2012 06:45 pm (UTC)
Denial is fine as long as it is (if ever) followed by an epiphany, you know? Without that pay off, though, it just gets painful to watch.

We have two episodes left. I'm gonna wait it out, because it does make sense that we'll get the payoff then. If we don't, well, then I'm done ... except for Damon scenes. :)

But then I read JP's interviews about how magnanimous it was of Stefan to "allow" Elena to go to Denver with Damon, how kind hearted he was and I sit here shaking my head at how wrong I am in my interpretation of the show. Why don't I see what she's saying, what's wrong with me?

She's trolling; she's simply GOT to be trolling. Or if she's not, well, then I'm done ... except for Damon scenes. :)

No one else seems to get that kind of treatment. It's very disheartening.

Agreed; that's GOT to change. I'm okay if it doesn't this season (and, of course, if we do get follow-through for the rest of the season, etc.) as long as it starts to happen next season. Because it HAS to.

Where did that go?

It's still there. No question.

*cries* I miss seasons 1 & 2.

Unless, the last two episodes are a colossal disappointment and don't remain true to the season, I definitely will have enjoyed season 3 way more than season 02, and more than season 01 as well.
wiccabuffy: Buffy - Sinkingwiccabuffy on April 27th, 2012 07:49 pm (UTC)
I'm still crying over Alaric, because we lost him. And with him, the only adult left out of the whole group.
Arabian: Alaric02arabian on April 27th, 2012 08:33 pm (UTC)
Hmm, I do consider Damon an adult, and Elena more and more. Alas, brought on by the ring or not, there wasn't enough to make up for me -- an utter Damon stan -- to care about his departure. Now this might change when I'm not so pissed off about other things in the episode and when we get to the end of the season and Alaric is (presumably) REALLY gone. It may hit me then.

Edited at 2012-04-28 11:43 pm (UTC)
sumeria: Red riding hoodsumeria on April 27th, 2012 08:03 pm (UTC)
I am choosing to hold on to something JP said in an interview recently, which is that they tend to know when the start writing a season where their end point is. If they know where they're going, it does make sense to try to draw out the emotional tension as close to the breaking point as possible before then.

And for what it's worth, both previous seasons ended on *extremely* strong D/E episodes.

I'm with you: two more episodes till end of season should make it clear if the writers see what is going on actually, of if we've just been making up the consistant characterization.
Arabian: TVD-Cast02arabian on April 27th, 2012 08:35 pm (UTC)
If they know where they're going, it does make sense to try to draw out the emotional tension as close to the breaking point as possible before then.

True, on the other hand, almost all of her other interviews wax poetic about how awesome Stefan is, and don't worry you poor S/Ers who have suffered so much, you're getting your turn! GRRR. (Issues, I have them.)

And for what it's worth, both previous seasons ended on *extremely* strong D/E episodes.

Which does actually worry me a bit because, by their philosophy then, wouldn't it be time for Stefan to have a "turn?" Gah.

two more episodes till end of season should make it clear if the writers see what is going on actually, of if we've just been making up the consistant characterization.

Right. I will hold on through the season. Please let us be right. PLEASE! I don't want to lose this show that I love so.
Laurelcorusca on April 27th, 2012 08:29 pm (UTC)
Maybe it was just me (and being biased, seeing as I started watching this show from the get-go with D/E in mind thanks to you) but I felt like the S/E scenes felt very much like they were play-acting. Not even being in denial exactly but trying to push themselves back to who they were two years ago and not quite fitting.

I think of it kind of like how if you ran into your best friend from college you might have a night or two of doing whatever silly/crazy thing you did when you were young and clueless (whether it be drinking and partying or playing Mario Kart until you drop), but it's only temporary and can't last because you're *not* that person anymore.
Arabian: Alaric01arabian on April 27th, 2012 08:31 pm (UTC)
Aww, I didn't know you started watching this. WHEE!!

I like hearing this point of view, I really do. I'm so close to it, you know, that I just have no filter.

it's only temporary and can't last because you're *not* that person anymore

She really isn't; Stefan still is, but she is not.

Thank you. :)
(no subject) - corusca on April 27th, 2012 09:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 27th, 2012 10:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - corusca on April 29th, 2012 08:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 30th, 2012 11:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
Diana: Vampire Diaries - Dancebutterfly on April 27th, 2012 11:20 pm (UTC)
I am hoping so hard that you're right.
Arabian: Damon & Elena02arabian on April 27th, 2012 11:45 pm (UTC)
We'll know for sure in a few weeks, and if I'm wrong ... well, that's a LOT more time will both have on our hands. :)
vanimy: D/E (s3)vanimy on April 27th, 2012 11:48 pm (UTC)
Really great post, dear!

I agree with like, everything. I only hope it's what the writers intended to write, lol.

Regarding the plot, I know I find it more interesting than a couple of episodes ago so I'm back on board when it comes to the main plot.

As for the triangle of doom... All I want right now is to know.

To know for sure if Elena loves Damon or if she only feels lust and it's only going to be Stefan. I just want to know. If it's all about Stefan and Elena, just do it writers, stop stringing people along and put them back together. I could deal with Stefan/Elena again and I would know what to expect at least. Sure my love for the show would dwindle down and the plot would definitely have to be fantastic to keep me but I would still watch the show.

If she has feelings for Damon and this is a real triangle, just say it too. I would be okay with Damon/Elena not being a couple yet, I could deal with little moments again if Elena pulls a Kelly Taylor or something happens that prevents them from being together or Damon walks away (I can't say I would disagree with him if he decided to take a break really), just as long as I know it's real, that there are feelings, that Elena loves Damon too.

If she doesn't, this is getting really sick. Like Buffy/Spike sick. No offense to the shippers, but that relationship was beyond unhealthy, and if Elena doesn't fess up and shows how much she's in love with Damon too soon, this one-sided relationship is going to become sick too.

So... I just want to know now. No more skirting around the issue, no more throwing moments for shippers on both sides and all. It's getting tiring.
Arabian: Damon & Elena08arabian on April 28th, 2012 12:26 am (UTC)
Really great post, dear!

Thank you, but we do have some disagreements ahead, LOL!

I only hope it's what the writers intended to write, lol.

If it's not then I've wasted a LOT OF TIME on this show.

If it's all about Stefan and Elena, just do it writers, stop stringing people along and put them back together. I could deal with Stefan/Elena again and I would know what to expect at least. Sure my love for the show would dwindle down and the plot would definitely have to be fantastic to keep me but I would still watch the show.

Not me. I love Damon just a wee bit more than Elena. And I love Damon LOTS, so that tells you how much I love Elena. Were she to go back to Stefan, it would pretty much destroy the character for me. She can care about him, she can want to be his friend, she can help him, still have tension until they're ready to fully resolve the triangle, but if she goes aback to him, they've destroyed her character. He uses her, manipulates her, as lied to her non-stop, white-washed his character, presenting an image and an untruth of which she's based many of her decisions over the last few years. And he's shown a depth of cruelty to her that IS abusive. So no, she goes back to Stefan. Elena's done for me, and other than continuing to watch Damon scenes, and a few other characters, I'm done stanning for this show. Period.

If she has feelings for Damon and this is a real triangle, just say it too. I would be okay with Damon/Elena not being a couple yet

I don't expect them to be a couple, but I do expect her to love him, to choose him ... and then something will happen that will keep them from being together. That's what I expect.

I could deal with little moments again if Elena pulls a Kelly Taylor or something happens that prevents them from being together or Damon walks away (I can't say I would disagree with him if he decided to take a break really), just as long as I know it's real, that there are feelings, that Elena loves Damon too.

Other than "choosing me," I agree. It's past time, she doesn't get to choose herself because it basically becomes that she's been stringing the guy's heart for the last six months. Not cool.

ike Buffy/Spike sick. No offense to the shippers, but that relationship was beyond unhealthy

I stopped watching BtVS because of BS. That destroyed the character of Buffy for me.

and if Elena doesn't fess up and shows how much she's in love with Damon too soon, this one-sided relationship is going to become sick too.

That's how I feel about the Kelly Taylor scenario as well.

So... I just want to know now. No more skirting around the issue, no more throwing moments for shippers on both sides and all. It's getting tiring.

Yup. NO ONE is happy. The D/E shippers (the BIGGEST majority of viewers), the S/E shippers (other than Bonnie/Jeremy and Matt/Caroline, THE least popular major ship on the show, if you look at the available data) and general viewers who don't ship either way are all TIRED OF IT. They're not annoyed, pissed off, and the show is pleasing no one.
(no subject) - vanimy on April 28th, 2012 01:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 29th, 2012 01:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on April 29th, 2012 09:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 30th, 2012 12:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on May 1st, 2012 08:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on May 2nd, 2012 03:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on April 28th, 2012 01:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 29th, 2012 01:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on April 29th, 2012 09:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 30th, 2012 12:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vanimy on May 1st, 2012 08:38 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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knots_in_myhair: damons armknots_in_myhair on April 28th, 2012 02:16 am (UTC)
Youre thoughts/analyzations are flawless.
Arabian: Damon12arabian on April 28th, 2012 08:16 pm (UTC)
Well, thank you very much. :D
Florencia: DE (I Like You Now)florencia7 on April 28th, 2012 08:06 pm (UTC)
I agree with everything you wrote so completely :[ They should really change the show title to The Denial Diaries.

I honestly don't understand the reason for Bonnie saying that "whenever Damon makes a choice someone suffers". How about all of them suffering because of EVERYONE making some bad choices from time to time throughout the show. But no. She singles Damon out. Again. It was the same in the previous episode with Caroline saying "the difference is Damon doesn't care". So we are back to early S1, to Damon being the main & only villain? When did that happen? *sigh*

But let us not lose hope, at least not until the finale ;)
Arabian: Damon & Elena12arabian on April 28th, 2012 08:16 pm (UTC)
They should really change the show title to The Denial Diaries.

Well, it's generally not THIS bad (unless your name is Stefan Salvatore, or Elena Gilbert circa seasons 01-02). But it really was the theme for the episode.

She singles Damon out. Again. It was the same in the previous episode with Caroline saying "the difference is Damon doesn't care".

it's because of what I said above. Damon makes the hard choices, and it's easier for them to read it as Damon causes people to suffer, Damon doesn't care because then they have someone to blame for the bad shit going down ... which helps them keep their sanity intact. It's not fair to Damon, though, and it fucking needs to be addressed no later than the midway point of next season. I'd prefer sooner, but I'm willing to wait until then before I really start ranting.

So we are back to early S1, to Damon being the main & only villain? When did that happen? *sigh*

See, I don't get that feeling at all. No one considers Damon the villain; he's just the one they can blame when bad stuff happens in their group. They take him for granted ... but they take him for granted as ONE OF THEM.
(no subject) - florencia7 on April 28th, 2012 08:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 28th, 2012 10:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Heather-Ann: DE Kisslinsell_farm on April 29th, 2012 03:50 pm (UTC)
Caroline projecting her own situation onto Elena's makes sense to me. Thank you for letting me feel better about this (as you usually do) as I do not want to love her less, either.

Interesting insight about Damon being in denial as well. Aside from the fact that I tend to over-sympathize with Damon, I can more easily understand why he'd go there rather than deal with his feelings in this situation. IMO, he's entitle to this, whereas with Stefan and Elena it's just their MO, and have done it so often that I get frustrated with them rather than try to empathize. I do empathize more with Elena given everything she's gone through this season.

The fact that it wasn't at all in this episode, I'm choosing to believe now is because those emotions will erupt in a way that NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THE THREE can ignore (much like Stefan being forced to realize that he was willing to do anything to save Damon's life without any excuses that it had to do with anything else in "Homecoming").

I love the way you think, Jenn! I choose to latch onto this and have faith that this season will end in a way that satisfies me.
Arabian: Damon & Elena20arabian on April 29th, 2012 05:59 pm (UTC)
Re: Caroline, exactly. This has to be truth, or I just can't love her. I can't. Let Elena be swayed by the fact that she does love Stefan, by her insane levels of empathy and forgiveness, but for a friend of Elena's to know that information and STILL push Elena to him? No, just no. That is not a person I can tolerate, let alone like.

I do empathize more with Elena given everything she's gone through this season.

And because she TRIED to deal with stuff, but both Caroline and Stefan led her down the path of denial.

I choose to latch onto this and have faith that this season will end in a way that satisfies me.

I've heard too many murmurs that things will be good that I'm not worrying too much any more at all.
jamdouradojamdourado on April 29th, 2012 08:52 pm (UTC)
This post makes more optimistic :D

And I loved when you pointed Caroline seeing Stefan as Tyler and Damon as Klaus, it makes sense, Caroline is on a similar situation as Elena's ans she is scared of what she feels.

I'll just wait for what will happen on next chapters, won't get too much hope for the rest of the show.
Arabian: Damon & Elena09arabian on April 30th, 2012 12:14 pm (UTC)
This post makes more optimistic :D

Good! :D

And I loved when you pointed Caroline seeing Stefan as Tyler and Damon as Klaus, it makes sense, Caroline is on a similar situation as Elena's ans she is scared of what she feels.

Yup. It just makes so much sense looking at it from that perspective.

I'll just wait for what will happen on next chapters, won't get too much hope for the rest of the show.

I think we're good to hope; I think we have good stuff coming. :)
illuminanted: Damon Salvatore ♥illuminanted on May 4th, 2012 03:08 pm (UTC)
However, Caroline was too busy projecting her own predicament onto Elena's situation to stop and actually listen, be there for her friend. Stefan does not equal Tyler.
I think that Caroline was projecting her experience and past interaction with both brothers and ignoring what they have actually done/mean to Elena. (the things she knows about, of course, because, like you said, it is perfectly in character for Elena to not share things that feel too painful or personal.) Since for Caroline - Damon represents cruelty and a guy who only used her in a very painful -all-levels way (his switch was off at the time but still... for her it doesn't really make a difference (though I think it should.)), while Stefan - he is her mentor, the guy that saved her life and helped her deal with being a vampire. Therefore, she is unable to give Elena any kind of an unbiased opinion because she doesn't acknowledge Elena's relationship with both brothers.

Moreover, this is also present -> Yet, it is easier for Caroline to project her in-denial feelings about Tyler and Klaus onto Elena about Stefan and Damon, slotting the brothers in the roles that her beaux play.

Because it's easier to pretend that he's not in competition with Klaus for Caroline's affection, and that he has a chance should Klaus decide that's it. And Caroline knows that, which aids in her refusal to acknowledge even to herself that she IS intrigued by Klaus, and she won't, can't admit that; she feels guilty. So she tells Tyler that she loves him, she tells him that Klaus means nothing to her, and refuses to face the reality of the situation. Caroline did keep that drawing Klaus did ... by her bed. She also kept his jewelry. She is intrigued by him, by what he tells her, by the fact that this all-powerful creature seems to have one weakness, and that weakness is her.
I agree with this 100%. It is exactly how I view their situation.

Never mind that there was absolutely NO dealing with the fall-out of anything. Not Stefan's awful actions, not the distance between them, not what happened with Damon in Denver. It's so much easier to pretend that she loves only Stefan, and that what happened with Damon was an aberration, and his telling her off was a good way to have a clean break. If she pretends it didn't happen, and stays away from him, then she can keep her happy reality that she isn't like Katherine, that she isn't stringing the brothers along, that she doesn't have feelings for both.
Oh, Stefan and Elena... The way they deal with things is absolutely ridiculous. I thought it was such an unhealthy and unrealistic way to 'deal' with the past events (which as you've said where glossed over or NOT acknowledged at all). Furthermore, you are right that for Elena being in denial is better than admitting the truth and definitely better than admitting that she is like Katherine (when it comes to loving both brothers). She prefers to stay with her old labels (Damon = bad; Stefan = good), even though, she knows those lines have been long blurred.
Arabian: Damon14arabian on May 6th, 2012 12:40 pm (UTC)
think that Caroline was projecting her experience and past interaction with both brothers and ignoring what they have actually done/mean to Elena.

I think that goes without saying, but her pushing to the RIDICULOUS extreme the way she was is all about HER situation that she's projecting.

The way they deal with things is absolutely ridiculous. I thought it was such an unhealthy and unrealistic way to 'deal' with the past events (which as you've said where glossed over or NOT acknowledged at all). Furthermore, you are right that for Elena being in denial is better than admitting the truth and definitely better than admitting that she is like Katherine (when it comes to loving both brothers). She prefers to stay with her old labels (Damon = bad; Stefan = good), even though, she knows those lines have been long blurred.

Yeah, it makes sense, it's in character, but it's so unhealthy. We NEED to see something that reveals some acknowledgement of that by the finale.
illuminanted: Damon Salvatore ♥illuminanted on May 4th, 2012 03:12 pm (UTC)
And later, Stefan turned that conversation around to say that Elena told him he could feel. Sure, she did, once or twice, but the main instigator in getting Stefan on track, to where he is at a somewhat healthier place has been his brother. But nope, based on Stefan's words to Elena, it's all about her ... Damon isn't part of the equation at all. Except that he is. But Stefan doesn't want to talk about Damon, because that opens the door for Elena to talk about Damon and we can't have that.
This pissed me off so much. I love the Salvatore brothers and their unbreakable bond despite the circumstances, so having Stefan NOT acknowledging (at least to Elena) that his brother was actually the ONE who got him better and helped him learn moderation was awful. However, you are right that if Stefan were to do that, Elena's point of view might have shifted into reality all of a sudden but his emotional manipulation al games and skills (whether attempted and realised or not) are too enhanced now for that to be allowed.

I'm not saying that I think that Stefan is being deliberately deceptive and emotionally manipulative; he's completely convinced himself of all that he says. It's how he functions. He finds a reality that works best for him, and then convinces himself of the purity of that reality and runs with it. And then ignores, glosses over, brushes aside anything that contradicts said reality.
This is so spot-on! It is exactly the way I see and understand Stefan's character. (though I hope the writers do as well, even though, they don't really acknowledge it in interviews.)

And speaking of Damon, for one of the few times ever, we saw him in denial as well. His almost callous commentary about providing a mercy killing for Ric when speaking to Elena and Stefan (although, yeah, he was right) disguised his pain over the situation. And in the end, he waited outside denying that Ric didn't want to be alone because it would hurt to be with him. But -- unlike Elena, and Jeremy -- Damon once again took the hard hit, made the hard choice and stuck around to watch his friend fade away. No one else was willing to do that. But Damon did. Because Damon *always* makes the tough choices.
THIS SO MUCH! This is one of the reasons why I love his character so much! He is not content with living in denial and usually always makes the right choice (even if it is the hard one), even if it makes him the 'bad' guy at the end of day.
Arabian: Damon09arabian on May 6th, 2012 12:43 pm (UTC)
This pissed me off so much. I love the Salvatore brothers and their unbreakable bond despite the circumstances, so having Stefan NOT acknowledging (at least to Elena) that his brother was actually the ONE who got him better and helped him learn moderation was awful. However, you are right that if Stefan were to do that, Elena's point of view might have shifted into reality all of a sudden but his emotional manipulation al games and skills (whether attempted and realised or not) are too enhanced now for that to be allowed.

It did piss me off, but it really did make sense that he didn't because he's not going to give Elena any push towards Damon. :shrugs:

This is so spot-on! It is exactly the way I see and understand Stefan's character. (though I hope the writers do as well, even though, they don't really acknowledge it in interviews.)

I'm really holding onto the fact that they don't acknowledge the negative aspects of ANY characters in interviews as proof that they DO get it, because it's SO there on screen.

Re: Damon making the hard choices -- This is one of the reasons why I love his character so much! He is not content with living in denial and usually always makes the right choice (even if it is the hard one), even if it makes him the 'bad' guy at the end of day.

Yup. And I'm still hopeful (to a degree) that we will see some end result of this because they've been really pushing that aspect, so hopefully we'll get something that acknowledges it. :) Fingers crossed.
illuminanted: Damon Salvatore ♥illuminanted on May 4th, 2012 03:14 pm (UTC)
However, there is the chance that Bonnie's love for Elena and Jeremy would have been strong enough to control Esther long enough for Alaric to die. But we'll never know because Elena and Jeremy were off not dealing so Esther was able to carry out her plan through her "sister."
I was thinking about that after the end of the episode. Because maybe it was going to help, maybe not BUT it was definitely going to help Damon to have someone by his side after/during the time his best friend was dying... and after all he has done for Elena, I think she owed him that much...

Yeah, I was initially really upset with Bonnie for her comment to Damon about there always is another choice ... but, denial! She knows there was no other choice, and that what Damon did was the best option as horrible as it was. She knows that, but it's easier to blame Damon for doing what he did to Abby, than to accept her own responsibility in bringing her mother into the situation.
THIS! Because if they were dealing with any other vampires, rather than the Originals, maybe there would have been another way... maybe they could have out-smartened and ambushed them and maybe they could have been stronger BUT they are NOT. They are dealing with the most strong, old and experienced vampires there is, vampires who can kill them all fairly easily. So, NO... there wasn't another choice.

Except Alaric. He was the only major character tonight who was completely aware and accepting of the reality of the situation. And, yet in the end, because everyone else wasn't, he was screwed. Of course.
YES! Unfortunately, that is what happened. (even though I never want Ric to die and I am still hoping they're going to figure out something in order to bring Alaric back... despite knowing that is probably impossible at this point.)
Arabian: Bonnie01arabian on May 6th, 2012 12:57 pm (UTC)
Because maybe it was going to help, maybe not BUT it was definitely going to help Damon to have someone by his side after/during the time his best friend was dying... and after all he has done for Elena, I think she owed him that much...

I was okay with Elena not being there because she was experiencing her own grief. It's the fact that no one else (read: oh, STEFAN!) chose to not be there with him that pissed me off. Stefan should have been waiting outside for Damon, and Elena should have been with Jeremy. Period. It was just, ugh, all so contrived to "balance" out Stefan/Elena with Damon/Elena.

NO... there wasn't another choice

Right, and I think that Bonnie does know that deep down, but it hurt too much to look at her own actions and was easier to be angry at Damon instead of herself.