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27 April 2012 @ 01:52 am
3.20 - 'Do Not Go Gentle' (The Vampire Diaries)  
Really not long. I swear.

Upon further thought -- yeah, I'm going to do a follow-up that's more positive because I think I've found that golden lining. I think so. (Yeah, this would be why I was supposed to wait until the next day to write my post so I didn't emotionally respond. *sigh* Here's the link to the new post: 'Do Not Go Gentle' Take Two.

So, I pretty much hated this episode. It devastated me because I felt like it completely erased everything that happened in the last episode, and it sure looks like Elena will most definitely be choosing Stefan in the finale. Yay. So here are the thoughts I jotted down when I thought I could write my long, rambling post. There are two options if I do: 1) I wait until the next week or the season is over and it miraculously makes things right in the Damon/Elena universe, or 2) my long, rambling post is more like a long, rambling vent.

So, instead here are those quick thoughts (cleaned up).

- Still no acknowledgement whatsoever that Ric's been a major dick to Damon.

- Once again, Damon was right. He should have killed Ric at the beginning -- with Ric's blessing so he wouldn't hurt anyone else. Did they listen? No. And now Ric is their new worst enemy!

- Everyone had someone to comfort them ... except Damon. Oh, right, Meredith sorta, kinda did. And I care because? Shoulda been Elena. SHOULD HAVE BEEN ELENA. Who should have been with Ric in the tomb, and then had been the one to come out to Damon. Nope, Elena didn't express even a flicker of emotion for Damon AT ALL despite the fact that Ric is his best friend. Not even a flicker.

- I can't be impartial about Stefan/Elena, I just loathe them with the fiery passion of a million burning suns now. I loved what we got with Damon/Elena last week, but how Elena acted this week just made what happened seem like a dirty secret that Elena was ashamed of, while her heart is true and pure and strong and beating with twu wuv only for Stefan. She balked at every moment of her "exploration" of her feelings for Damon -- except for the one minute she was sucking his face -- and was all giddy and joyful over her renewed exploration of her feelings for Stefan.

I'll say it right now: If Elena chooses Stefan, I'm done with loving this show because it means that everything I believed, everything I analyzed, everything that made sense to me was all a crazy construct in my head, and starting next season, I'll only watch Damon-related scenes and any particular scene that catches my fancy. And I'm done stanning. Period.

- Klaus/Caroline had more chemistry and FEELINGS in their one scene then every Tyler/Caroline moment from this week and last.

- For the first time, I actually feel like Damon should tell Elena to go fuck herself. To be so accepting of everything Stefan has done without any true apology or remorse beyond a few statements, and yet, she pretty much still treats Damon like he's less than. Especially when Stefan was so horribly, emotionally manipulative in almost every moment with Elena.

- Poor Rebekah, missed another dance.

- I liked Ric mostly for his friendship with Damon, considering how that's been pretty much crapped on (at least the Ric to Damon side), I wasn't really all that moved by the supposed "heart and soul" scene when he faced the group. Other than Damon, Elena and Jeremy, we've barely seen meaningful interaction with Ric and of them (aside from his deep, philosophical conversations with Stefan in the last episode), so, yeah, wasn't moved at all. And don't think I didn't notice how Elena moved to stand next to Stefan. Not even in between Stefan and Damon, but ONLY next to Stefan.

- I'd be happy for Bonnie actually finding someone willing to stick around for her and appreciating her awesome if (a) Kat Graham and Robert Ri’chard had a lick of chemistry, (b) Bonnie and Jamie had actual build-up, and (c) if she wasn't such a bitch to Damon. THERE WAS NO OTHER CHOICE!

- How is it Stefan's turn, Caroline (show!)? What was that entire period when Elena and Stefan were dating? Was that not Stefan's turn?

- Oh, look ... Elena actually attempted honesty with Stefan. But nope, much better to just sweep it under the rug. Yup, that's Stefan's MO and the Stefan/Elena relationship in a nutshell. Truly epic.

That's it. I've been so hopeful and optimistic, and this episode just made me feel like the biggest fool for believing that they were actually going somewhere good with Damon and Elena. I fully expect her to choose Stefan now. I don't see how she won't. I have no hope for the rest of the season re: Damon/Elena because clearly when she said it was Stefan, it was always Stefan, she meant it. I hope to be proven wrong, and hey, they managed to turn everything awesome about last week on its ear in one episode, maybe they'll do it again next week.

Eh. Let's just say I'm not holding my breath.

ETA: I'm trying to formulate a more positive framing of the episode. I'll see if I can get there and find myself able to write a more reasoned, hopeful post.
 
 
 
Diana: Whatever -- Original Cindybutterfly on April 27th, 2012 06:04 am (UTC)
Yeah, the Stefan/Elena stuff in this episode was really overwhelming and really negative and so destructive to the emotional arc that they'd been building for the rest of the season. I don't even know what to do with it except hope that next week overturns this week like this week overturned last week.

And it was so contrived for them to end on Stefan/Elena being together in the end. Not just that Elena chose to be with Stefan and not Damon and Ric, but that Bonnie chose to leave Elena alone with Stefan (while she's telling Jamie how important her friendships are to her!). Elena has lost her mother, her father, her bio-mom and bio-dad, her aunt, and now she's losing Ric... but Bonnie just goes home so that she can get possessed. Contrived!

Edited at 2012-04-27 06:04 am (UTC)
Arabian: Alaric02arabian on April 27th, 2012 06:17 am (UTC)
I didn't even think of that, but you're absolutely right. And Jeremy goes to the bar to Matt ... not to grieve with his sister. Nope, gotta give Stefan a contrived way to emotionally manipulate his way back to Elena (and make it ALL ABOUT HIM in the process).
(no subject) - butterfly on April 27th, 2012 06:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 27th, 2012 06:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - butterfly on April 27th, 2012 06:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 27th, 2012 06:51 am (UTC) (Expand)
Aly J.: TVD -- D/E (8)simply_aly on April 27th, 2012 06:17 am (UTC)
I'm holding out hope that the point of this episode (re: the Stelena reunion in this episode) was to make it so that when Elena does make a choice, she's doing it on an equal level. So that when she choses, it isn't her choising one because the other one is 'bad' and she can't be with someone who is 'bad'.

If she is in a good place with both and admits that she has feelings for both (as we have seen her do last episode with the Delena kiss and this episode with the Stelena whatever-that-was) when she makes her choice, her choice is not biased; she has to make a choice between which one she wants more, not which one is standing in the light.

I mean, if she didn't make up with Stefan by the end and did chose Damon, it's less about her choosing Damon and more about her avoiding Stefan. And if the last episode hadn't happened and she had chosen Stefan at the end, it would be less about her choosing Stefan and more about her ignoring what she feels for Damon.

At least that's what I'm trying to believe.
Arabian: Damon & Elena(PR)02arabian on April 27th, 2012 06:50 am (UTC)
I want to believe that but how she acted with regards to Damon last week (balking at it all) and how she acted with Stefan (all giddy) made it perfectly clear that she's all about Stefan. Damon was always just a substitute.

If she is in a good place with both and admits that she has feelings for both

But she ISN'T in a good place with Damon. They fought, and then were moody and silent in the car. And then in their brief bit of interaction in this episode, she was pissy with him. And remember she doesn't KNOW if she has feelings for him. But she's damn sure where she stands with Stefan.

Like I said, this episode just devastated me and crushed all of my beliefs. I feel now like the season was about her seeing a possibility with Damon, but realizing that all she really does want is Stefan. I want to be wrong; I really, really do, but ... yeah, this one was a sucker-punch. And it hurt!
(no subject) - simply_aly on April 27th, 2012 07:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 27th, 2012 07:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
shipperjunkie: Damonshipperjunkie on April 27th, 2012 07:14 am (UTC)
What I feel right now is stupid for believing that Damon/Elena would actually happen, because I just don't see how she can go from being happy and excited to spend time with Stefan (AFTER EVERYTHING) to choosing Damon within two episodes. With Stefan telling her he doesn't need to know what happened between Elena and Damon it seems like he was forgiving her and she was not only relieved but thankful. He's the Fairest One of All, y'all! To me, that totally negates any emotion she felt with Damon and reduces the experience to simple lust, and it totally infuriates me.

I hate to be the type of shipper who bails when things go bad but if she chooses Stefan then fuck it, I may continue to watch but I certainly will cease to care.
Arabian: Damon07arabian on April 27th, 2012 07:23 am (UTC)
Yeah, I feel stupid. I mean, they COULD turn it around. (After all they turned last week around to this!) But I just, ugh, this was just devastating.

I hate to be the type of shipper who bails when things go bad but if she chooses Stefan then fuck it, I may continue to watch but I certainly will cease to care.

Nothing wrong there. We've waited THREE YEARS! And two of them were ALL Stefan/Elena, and almost every episode this season had discussion, allusions to, was about Stefan and Elena's epic twu wuv. When it is OUR turn? What do we get for our patience? Certainly no coddling or heartfelt 'hold on's from the producers. Nope, because we apparently don't matter. Pfft.
(no subject) - shipperjunkie on April 27th, 2012 07:50 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 27th, 2012 01:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - shipperjunkie on April 27th, 2012 03:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 27th, 2012 03:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Bogwitch: TVD - Carolinebogwitch on April 27th, 2012 07:35 am (UTC)
I need to watch again on a decent screen, but...

I didn't like this one either, the Damon and Alaric scenes were the only ones worth watching. Yet it felt like the Stefan/Elena stuff was so strong and so heavy-handed (and Damon left so isolated) that surely there has to be a fall for Stefan coming. I hated all that 'you still have me' crap that deliberately cut out his brother, and secondarily, her friends. Ugh. BUT I have been wondering about a cartain flashback in the finale for a while now and why exactly do we need to see it if there is not something we don't know about that incident and Stefan's part in it?

Also there is a huge contrast between the passionate scenes between Damon and Elena last week and what we got with Stefan this week, which for all the 'emotions' talked about in pretty, deceitful words, weren't (or didn't seem to me on my crappy stream and my mind might have wandered at the time...so). Although, my conviction has been firmly shaken (yet, as I said before, I expected this ep to do that to make the Stefan choice more valid for the finale)) I think I am still happy with my guess that Elena will choose Damon and he'll say no (to save the relationship with his brother).

Sorry, I think Jamie is toast. I was astonished he made it this far.
Arabian: Caroline06arabian on April 27th, 2012 01:17 pm (UTC)
I didn't like this one either, the Damon and Alaric scenes were the only ones worth watching.

Don't you mean scene. As in singular. Because, yeah, that's all they got.

Yet it felt like the Stefan/Elena stuff was so strong and so heavy-handed (and Damon left so isolated) that surely there has to be a fall for Stefan coming.

I'm hoping.

I hated all that 'you still have me' crap that deliberately cut out his brother, and secondarily, her friends. Ugh.

Exactly. He lied. He was emotionally manipulative and he didn't seem to give a flying fig newton about ANYONE else. Including his brother.

BUT I have been wondering about a cartain flashback in the finale for a while now and why exactly do we need to see it if there is not something we don't know about that incident and Stefan's part in it?

Eh, butterfly said it's probably going to portray some big, romantic moment with Stefan/Elena to further cement their twu wuv!

Also there is a huge contrast between the passionate scenes between Damon and Elena last week and what we got with Stefan this week, which for all the 'emotions' talked about in pretty, deceitful words

That's true; like I said -- once again glossing over everything. Stefan using the situation to make it all about him.

Although, my conviction has been firmly shaken (yet, as I said before, I expected this ep to do that to make the Stefan choice more valid for the finale)) I think I am still happy with my guess that Elena will choose Damon and he'll say no (to save the relationship with his brother).

If she chooses him, I don't think Damon will say no, I think something else will happen that gets in the way of them.

Thanks. This is helping to worm its way into my brain to create a more balanced post.
(no subject) - bogwitch on April 27th, 2012 10:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 27th, 2012 11:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Maeve: Avatar: Need Brain Bleachmarble_rose on April 27th, 2012 07:36 am (UTC)
What I don't understand is how the show is so incredibly self-aware at times yet has this overwhelming blind spot when it comes to S/E. Does not compute. I don't know how the writers thought this episode was kosher. I was baffled watching it. Just...where was all the fallout? Where were the recriminations about Stefan's behavior all season? Why the fuck does Stefan get to attribute his reformation to his love for Elena when we know damn well that the only person able to brink him back from the brink this season was his brother? (That last one was rhetorical. It's well established that Stefan is the master at spinning stories in whatever way most benefits him.)

Also? While I completely respect Elena's right to choose/date/kiss whomever she wants, I feel like it was a bitch move to ask Stefan without explaining her intentions to Damon. Yes, I realize that Elena is technically single and doesn't owe anyone anything, but she was the one who initiated last week's kiss with Damon. He had backed off. He was no longer pursuing her. Elena is the one who reopened that particular can of worms. So, if for no other reason than Elena and Damon are supposed to be friends who care about one another, it irritates me that Damon didn't get a courtesy call, just a small heads up to explain that going to the dance with Stefan was something she needed to do before she could make a decision. Elena is always so quick to report to Stefan, so it aggravates me that Damon never gets that sort of respect.

I found the end of this episode so distasteful. Ric and Stefan were never close. Ric and Damon were. Losing Ric shouldn't have been an event that brought Stefan and Elena together. Honestly, I would've been okay with any other character comforting Elena in that moment because any other character would've made more sense: Damon and Elena because they're the two who care about Ric the most, Jeremy and Elena because once again they're losing a guardian, Caroline, Bonnie, and Elena because they've all been through something similar this season. Any of those combinations would've had more emotional resonance. Instead, we get a manipulative Stefan who gets to play the emotional rock while simultaneously making it all about him. Just, when Stefan said that Elena had him, I literally snorted. Since when? I mean, I guess she had him in the car with her when he was threatening to drive her off a bridge. That platitude might've worked last season when they were relentlessly co-dependent, but not now. Not when Stefan has been self-destructing all season, and Damon has been Elena's main support system. Wtf, show?

Edited at 2012-04-27 08:48 am (UTC)
Arabian: Damon07arabian on April 27th, 2012 01:23 pm (UTC)
Well, I'm working on trying to figure out stuff because this show DOES seem to be self-aware. So maybe all of the stuff with S/E with the lack of fall-out, dealing with everything, was showing once again that they don't deal with reality. Because that was very pointed that they didn't discuss ANYTHING of depth at all. Even the stuff that referenced this past season (their whole 'someone I used to date told me this ...") was glossed over in a joking way.

As for the lack of Damon/Elena, it felt like once Caroline opened that door, it allowed Elena to fall back into that denial-shaped bubble where Stefan was her epic love and she could ignore everything else. Being at the dance, talking 'normal' things. Even the whole thing where Stefan talked about going to the dance, and Elena ascribed the finding moments of normalcy in the crazy is a bad thing, because their brand of normalcy ignores the reality and thus the danger of the situation. Per usual.

Instead, we get a manipulative Stefan who gets to play the emotional rock while simultaneously making it all about him. [...] That platitude might've worked last season when they were relentlessly co-dependent, but not now. Not when Stefan has been self-destructing all season

Maybe that was intentional. Showing how easily they fall back into unhealthy patterns.
illuminanted: Damon Salvatore ♥illuminanted on April 27th, 2012 09:14 am (UTC)
Once again, Damon was right.
As if we didn't already knew that in the beginning of the episode... He is always right! <3 (even when no one wants him to be or if he doesn't get any acknowledgment of it...)

Everyone had someone to comfort them ... except Damon. Oh, right, Meredith sorta, kinda did. And I care because? Shoulda been Elena. SHOULD HAVE BEEN ELENA. Who should have been with Ric in the tomb, and then had been the one to come out to Damon. Nope, Elena didn't express even a flicker of emotion for Damon AT ALL despite the fact that Ric is his best friend. Not even a flicker.
THIS SO MUCH!^^^ I was soooo angry about this! (well, anyway, at least I loved their 'goodbye' scene. It was vintage Team Badass <3)

but how Elena acted this week just made what happened seem like a dirty secret that Elena was ashamed of...
YES! I was so pissed about that, too! It's like everything that happened previously was irrelevant and forgotten once her 'true love' re-entered... ugh....

Klaus/Caroline had more chemistry and FEELINGS in their one scene then every Tyler/Caroline moment from this week and last.
THIS!^^^ (If I am not getting any SC scenes (and those with other people in them don't really count.) at least give me Klaus/Caroline.)

For the first time, I actually feel like Damon should tell Elena to go fuck herself. To be so accepting of everything Stefan has done without any true apology or remorse beyond a few statements, and yet, she pretty much still treats Damon like he's less than. Especially when Stefan was so horribly, emotionally manipulative in almost every moment with Elena.
Unfortunately, I whole-heartedly agree with you on that matter.
Arabian: Alaric01arabian on April 27th, 2012 01:25 pm (UTC)
I'm working my way through this, trying to be more positive. Elena ignoring Damon's feelings in the matter, playing pretend with Stefan, going along with glossing over, shoving under the carpet it showed how quickly Elena falls back into the denial game with Stefan. Which is incredibly unhealthy. There are two episodes left to get somewhere. We'll see.
Alisha: TVD (Caroline) Wonderkalishaka on April 27th, 2012 11:08 am (UTC)
Agreed! That's all I have. This episode was disappointing on like every level for me. The ONLY thing that moved me or was worth watching was the familial unit of Alaric ie Jeremy, Elena, and Damon. I was bored. I was annoyed. I was disappointed. And honestly my biggest problems have nothing to do with Stefan and Elena...
Arabian: Caroline02arabian on April 27th, 2012 01:26 pm (UTC)
I could be wrong, but I'm working my brain around to a more positive state of mind about this. I'm going to try to cobble something together that maybe makes sense.

It could all mean nothing and be ripped apart by the finale, but we'll see.
eolivet on April 27th, 2012 12:09 pm (UTC)
Nooooo, you can't give up hope, because if you give up hope, then my hope is lost!!! You were my rock after DA 2x08, and I just...I want to be one for you. All I can say is I've found TVD to have the emotional/relationship consistency this season of a sitcom: they "forget" connections between characters, and then resume them when it suits their purposes ("How I Met Your Mother," anyone?) Heck, look at all this Caroline/Tyler stuff! Where was "he's the great love of my life" when she was all intrigued by Klaus several episodes ago? Look at Bonnie -- no backup at all about Jeremy, who hurt her so deeply half a season ago (you think she'd be all AJDJFSDAJSDLAKSDAK JEREMY?!?!?!?!) but...nothing really. It's like they never dated! The only people they remember have a history is Caroline and Matt, and I'm convinced that's just the actors' relationship.

Basically, it could ALL change next week. And again...if Elena is out to choose Stefan, then what exactly has the point of this season been? They will HAVE to (hopefully!) address Damon's good behavior, and exactly what D/E has meant to Elena if not a potential romantic relationship.

OF COURSE IT'S NOT THE END. HOW COULD IT BE? :hugs: :(
Arabian: Damon & Elena01arabian on April 27th, 2012 01:33 pm (UTC)
I'm working my way through this, trying to be more positive. Elena ignoring Damon's feelings in the matter, playing pretend with Stefan, going along with glossing over, shoving under the carpet it showed how quickly Elena falls back into the denial game with Stefan. Which is incredibly unhealthy. There are two episodes left to get somewhere. We'll see.

All I can say is I've found TVD to have the emotional/relationship consistency this season of a sitcom: they "forget" connections between characters, and then resume them when it suits their purposes

This is actually disagree with.

Caroline/Tyler stuff! Where was "he's the great love of my life" when she was all intrigued by Klaus several episodes ago?

I didn't get that impression from Caroline either time actually. She told Tyler she loves him for the first time, but it certainly wasn't this big moment at all. It was almost throw-away. And I see a part of her responding this way because she IS intrigued by Klaus, she won't admit it and she feels guilty ... and she's projecting that onto Elena to a degree as well. (Stefan = Tyler, Damon = Klaus). As for Caroline/Matt -- well, the actors broke up in real life, so that's not that -- and Matt is the ONE person that Caroline has been consistent about from the moment she hooked into it.

As for Bonnie, I didn't expect (or think there needed to be) more with Jeremy. She was surprised to see him, and expressed the obvious sentiment that she still cares by pointing out the ring. I certainly got the ex-boyfriend feel, but even more than that, with Jeremy gone and in danger, she could have a more golden view of him, but him there in the flesh, seemingly okay was a reminder that they broke up because he cheated on her, and meanwhile she's with this guy who's treating her very well.

So yeah, I didn't find any of the character interactions inconsistent at all.

And again...if Elena is out to choose Stefan, then what exactly has the point of this season been?

Well, I actually came up with a reason above -- the season was about her seeing a possibility with Damon, but realizing that all she really does want is Stefan.

However, I am coming around to a different frame of mind. *Sigh* THIS is why I said I was going to wait to write my posts, LOL!
Frust-sheep: misc: Fandom-We know dramafrust_sheep on April 27th, 2012 12:24 pm (UTC)
I did not see the episode till now and I read not all comments on this entry, but I have something to say none the less. *lol*

The kiss last week was really epic and I really believe D&E are endgame and not only because I ship these two. But I will not wonder if Elena choose Stefan this season, because if she choose now already Damon what will the show/writers then do? Then they have "nothing" to tell anymore in some way. ;) I hope you know what I mean.
Arabian: Elena04arabian on April 27th, 2012 01:33 pm (UTC)
But I will not wonder if Elena choose Stefan this season, because if she choose now already Damon what will the show/writers then do? Then they have "nothing" to tell anymore in some way.

Very good point. And I'm working my way through this, trying to be more positive. Elena ignoring Damon's feelings in the matter, playing pretend with Stefan, going along with glossing over, shoving under the carpet it showed how quickly Elena falls back into the denial game with Stefan. Which is incredibly unhealthy. There are two episodes left to get somewhere. We'll see.
(no subject) - frust_sheep on April 27th, 2012 02:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 27th, 2012 02:52 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - frust_sheep on April 28th, 2012 05:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 28th, 2012 10:59 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - frust_sheep on April 29th, 2012 02:03 pm (UTC) (Expand)
archangel_blood: D/E sinner like mearchangel_blood on April 27th, 2012 01:53 pm (UTC)
I still don’t see Elena choosing Stefan, tbh. This episode bothered me on many different levels, but at no point was I concerned that Elena has no real feelings for Damon. It was just a mostly weak episode IMO, with weird OOC behaviour at times due to messy writing. That’s all. Hopefully now that you’ve calmed down a little, you will feel better about the show and our couple. Or you could just rewatch 3x19; it’s magic! It cures everything.

In my mind, there’s no doubt that the only real choice which would make any sort of sense right now is Damon and if TVD is not headed there, then it is not the show I thought it was. I will keep my faith until the finale though. Having had blind belief & hope for 3 years, I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for two more weeks at least.

Having said that, I was disappointed and at times frustrated with almost everything TVD chose to be last night. I felt for the Gilbert kids, loosing yet another parent figure, I really felt for them. And then I didn’t anymore, because instead of sticking together, one went drinking and the other threw herself in the hands of her lying, papa killing, mass murder-happy ex. Then we actually had to hear Elena say that she has no one left, just so Stefan can assure her that she has him. Hey, Elena? You have a goddamn brother who you just got back and who is suffering just like you are right now! Go find him and console each other, dammit!

Speaking of, Damon took Alaric’s (almost)death just as hard, if not harder than Jeremy and Elena. Yet the only one who somewhat acknowledges this is the outsider of the group, the doc? Elena goes to stand next to Stefan, not sparing a glance for the Salvatore who actually knows how she feels right now, because he’s losing someone he cares for too. What, because big bad Damon is so cold and unfeeling, he couldn’t possibly be affected by the demise of his best friend? Ugh. His last scene with Ric almost broke me. Damon, love, don’t ever change.

S/E scenes didn’t really bother me; it was everything we’re so used to seeing from them; emotional manipulation, dishonesty and sticking their heads in the sand ostrich-style. “If you and I find our way back to each other, you can tell me if you want to. I don’t want to know. After everything I’ve put you through I’m just honored to be your date tonight” Hah. This is so Stefan, so them that I don’t know where to start. Or whether I even want to. “No Elena, not the truth; please, anything but the truth. See, I forgive you for your poor judgment and bad behavior, see how noble and good I am. Cuz my recent ripper binge, where I terrorized the world and murdered 1/3 of its population loosely equates to you doing whatever you did with Damon, so let’s just call it even, kiss and make up.”

Yeah, I’ve nothing to say here. I’m still on the fence whether the writers know what they’re doing or they’re just the only ones who simply do not notice the nauseously unhealthy nature of this relationship. Same with Caroline’s (unintentionally?) hilarious line about their “epic” love. Please tell me that was actually meant to be ironic?

Caroline, dear, just go play with Klaus and stop giving people love advice. No really, do it. They are just so pretty together. “I don’t have to prove anything, love; I am the alpha male.” Yes, Klaus; yes you are. Lol

All in all, not happy with the episode but I don’t really see a reason for despair yet. Just hang in there, ok? I’m looking forward to your more positive review :)
Arabian: Alaric01arabian on April 27th, 2012 02:28 pm (UTC)
I have a whole theme for my rewatch post, and it does revolve a lot around what WASN'T done tonight and bad, bad projections from others unto others.

Having had blind belief & hope for 3 years, I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for two more weeks at least.<.i>

Yeah, that's where I am now.
tams71tams71 on April 27th, 2012 02:12 pm (UTC)
Even though I'll be having a gagging/eye rolling lolapalooza during the Elena and Stefan scenes, I plan to rewatch the episode to see if I can possibly get past the bitterness and outright loathing I'm feeling right now. Once again the ball was dropped, issues and events were glossed over and outright left in the dust to further a relationship that is not only contrived, but frought with manipulation.

When Damon is a dick, Elena calls him on his shit and basically scolds him, but when Stefan is a dick (and yeah, threatens to kill her on the same bridge where her parents died) Elena lets Stefan off the hook and falls into his arms. Oh yeah, and one week (or what, a few days in TVD time) Elena is having heart palpatatations over the much sexier brother, throwing herself into his arms and basically dry humping him and the next it's like it never happened and she's asking Stefan to be her date, dancing and acting all giddy with him, and lets him comfort her and play the hero. Ummm hello, WTF?????

I'm seriously sick of this build up/let down bullshit that Willimason, Plec and company are shoving down DE fan's throats. They get us all excited and give us some hope and then BAM, they screw us over. I'm OVER it!

The only scenes that I found enjoyable and really liked were Damon/Ric (boo hoo that it was only one because Ian and Matt have awesome bro chemistry), Klaus/Caroline (adore them), and Ric/Elena/Jeremy. I found myself even liking Meredith in this episode and I'm really not a fan.

The whole Esther turning Ric into the ultimate badass Original didn't shock me in the least, although I'm looking forward to Matt Davis kicking some serious ass with what's to come for Ric. I felt cheated at the "fake" death scene and wish that it had played out differently, with Ric's "family" consisting of Damon, Elena, and Jeremy being with him until the "end" and having what happened with Bonnie, happen in front of all of them. That would have had the shock factor. The whole Scooby Doo gang in front of the tomb was lame and Elena standing with Stefan, instead of Damon or Jeremy chafed my ass. WTFever show!

I don't know if a rewatch is the best idea, but I have to find something to hold on to in last night's episode otherwise I will go Damon on someone's ass!

I wish you good luck in finding something positive my friend. Sorry I missed your call last night, let's talk tonight :)
Arabian: Damon08arabian on April 27th, 2012 02:29 pm (UTC)
I have a whole theme for my rewatch post, and it does revolve a lot around what WASN'T done tonight and bad, bad projections from others unto others.

I'm seriously sick of this build up/let down bullshit that Willimason, Plec and company are shoving down DE fan's throats. They get us all excited and give us some hope and then BAM, they screw us over. I'm OVER it!

I'm hoping this is it. I'm fine with Elena choosing Damon and then something getting in the way, tearing them apart, I expect that, but if she chooses Stefan -- then really they've played us for fools this whole time.
(no subject) - tams71 on April 27th, 2012 03:39 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 27th, 2012 04:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Deleted comment)
Arabian: SC & Klaus01arabian on April 27th, 2012 03:13 pm (UTC)
The only thing that worries me is I read an article yesterday that hinted at Damon/Meredith in S4 - why would he be hooking up with her if Elena chose him?

Yeah, a coy comment about her possibly being more than a drinking buddy. However, it wasn't in quotes, could have been delivered from Julie to the reporter jokingly (as Damon sleeps with everyone at this point), and misinterpreted because the comment came after having seen this episode. At least that's what I'm holding onto now.

The Damon/Alaric scene just didn't work for me because there was nothing from Alaric TO Damon. It was all from Damon's end. Sure he was joking in a friendly way, but Ric was still saying dick-ish things to Damon. If there was ever a time for Alaric to just open up and give Damon SOMETHING since everyone else fucking hates his guts, this was it. Of course, if they'd had more than a minute to interact, I might have felt something.

It was just a throw away love you.

That's exactly how I read it.

Writing my more hopeful post now.
sumeriasumeria on April 27th, 2012 03:36 pm (UTC)
Well, I can't say I loved this episode, but it certainly fell more lightly on me than it did on you!

- Everyone had someone to comfort them ... except Damon. Oh, right, Meredith sorta, kinda did. And I care because? Shoulda been Elena. SHOULD HAVE BEEN ELENA. Who should have been with Ric in the tomb, and then had been the one to come out to Damon. Nope, Elena didn't express even a flicker of emotion for Damon AT ALL despite the fact that Ric is his best friend. Not even a flicker.

I take a bit of issue in general with how the mourning-for-Ric fell out, largely because it seems a bit contrived. That is to say, they needed everyone to leave him to die alone in a tomb because otherwise, the possessed-Bonnie-giving-him-her-blood thing doesn't really work. I did, however, really love that Damon ignored him and stayed anyway. That scene didn't bother me as much as it did you, because though I agree that Ric has been a shitty friend this season, I also think that was largely under the influence of the ring. I just felt like I saw them start to click together again a lot in the last few episodes, in a way they haven't been. And while I agree that Damon does deserve an apology, they've always conducted so much of that friendship under teh radar that I don't feel like he *needed* one to get it.

Klaus/Caroline had more chemistry and FEELINGS in their one scene then every Tyler/Caroline moment from this week and last.

Yeah, Tyler/Caroline has never done anything for me, and it's doing less now. I do think they're handling the Klaus/Caroline thing well; of *course* she's flattered by his attentions. When the most powerful thing around is following you around trying to romance you, it's flattering. What Tyler is persistantly failing to grasp is that it's also terrifying. Klaus does not have a strong record of taking either rejection or emotional disapointments well. The thing about Tyler/Caroline I have never really liked (or Matt/Caroline, for that matter) is that neither of those dudes really make any attempt to to understand/care about how *she* feels about any given issue.

Bringing us to Stefan, speaking of dudes who make everything about themselves. I'm with you; I have lost pretty much my last shred of patience for Stefan's man!pain. I would argue that he's more deluded than deliberately deceptive, as I think he does generally manage to persuade himself of his epic bullshit before it comes out of his mouth (ie, he's redeeming himself "for Elena" and such) but either way, he really needs to grow up before he'll be emotionally ready to have a relationship with anyone.

*That said*, the emotional feeling *I*, for one, got from all the S/E this episode was less "rekindling an epic love" and more "closure". Their entire interactions, the way they talked about their past relationship, the way they held themselves around each other... remind me very strongly indeed of the way Elena interacts with *Matt*, particularly in season 1. Slowly making their way past a lot of hurt feelings to find a warm and comfortable friendship. Given which, I can actually see why she'd find Stefan more comforting to be around right now; her feelings for Damon are explosive, and full of sharp jagged edges, and she's still too afraid of them to actually commit. (Also, on at least one level, I'd prefer it to take a while for D/E to get together; it increases the likeliness that they won't break up before the show ends.)
Arabian: Elena06arabian on April 27th, 2012 03:45 pm (UTC)
Almost done with my more positive post. :) It will be up in a few.

I take a bit of issue in general with how the mourning-for-Ric fell out, largely because it seems a bit contrived.

I actually covered that in my new post without realizing it. For me the key of the episode was denial and that's what led to them where they all were.

. I would argue that he's more deluded than deliberately deceptive

Oh, I agree, it's just ... yeah, I'm over it.

. Their entire interactions, the way they talked about their past relationship, the way they held themselves around each other... remind me very strongly indeed of the way Elena interacts with *Matt*

I'd agree with that even we didn't see her giddy on the phone, lost in his eyes, about to kiss him, etc. But, yeah, denial works wonders.

Also, on at least one level, I'd prefer it to take a while for D/E to get together

It;'s been three years now. That's long enough. I'm fine with (and expect) something to tear them apart at the end of the season, but Elena NEEDS to choose to be with him and he needs to know that before they're torn apart. It's OUR turn. Period.
(no subject) - sumeria on April 27th, 2012 04:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 27th, 2012 04:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - sumeria on April 27th, 2012 05:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 27th, 2012 05:24 pm (UTC) (Expand)
vamplover85: pic#116971037vamplover85 on April 27th, 2012 10:03 pm (UTC)
there were hardly any scenes with Damon in this episode with her....I don't get why they didn't write one little scene in it to talk about everything that happened....but mostly this episode was about fan service. But I have high hope for the last two episodes....Stefan will not go to Elena because one of what he did and two he's know he's not good enough for her. And cause of the Elena poster. But despite the 'ship' part of this episode. I liked it. I bawled at the part where they were saying goodbye to Ric! I haven't cried like that since Jenna's death! ugh. and the unexpected twist at the end. He's the big bad now.....Though the stupid thing is they NEVER appreciate Damon saving people asses....Even if he does what Elena said he did last week...but this week he didn't do anything rash but he did save some. just Ugh. Sometimes it seems like Stefan can get away with anything.Even after what he did to Elena. And I don't get Elena feelings towards Stefan, all I saw was awkward. lol.
Arabian: Ian & Nina16arabian on April 27th, 2012 10:19 pm (UTC)
there were hardly any scenes with Damon in this episode with her....I don't get why they didn't write one little scene in it to talk about everything that happened....but mostly this episode was about fan service.

i dont' think it was about fan service for that reason. It was about ratcheting up the tension. If Damon/Elena had talked, if what happened at that motel had been discussed, things would have been brought to a head that much sooner. They more or less evened the playing field to a degree for the last two episodes.

Stefan will not go to Elena because one of what he did and two he's know he's not good enough for her.

No, that's not how Stefan operates. He flat-out told Caroline that it doesn't matter what's best for Elena, he can't stay away. The only reason he said he wasn't good enough for her in 3.12 was so that he could dig the knife in that Damon wasn't good enough for her either. And just like everything he does that gets forgiven and washed under the bridge, he no doubt expects the same for the Wickery Bridge incident. That's his M.O.

I bawled at the part where they were saying goodbye to Ric!

Like I said, I didn't feel a strong enough connection between Ric and most of them, and I was pissed about other things, so I just didn't care. It didn't help that Ric has pissed me off so much all season long.

the unexpected twist at the end. He's the big bad now

That was definitely surprising.
(no subject) - vamplover85 on April 30th, 2012 01:22 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 30th, 2012 11:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
vanimy: D/E kissvanimy on April 27th, 2012 11:26 pm (UTC)
Wow you sure hated this episode! And if YOU lose hope we're all doomed!

I'll read your second more optmistic post in a sec' but I wanted to give my first impressions too :

-I actually didn't hate the episode and didn't love it either. I actually liked the whole plot with Psycho!Bitch!Esther (I hate her with a passion) and Alaric and all. That's what saved the episode for me and why I didn't hate the episode. Shocker twist for the win!

Also I knew they would backpedal on Damon/Elena big time. That's always what they do whenever we get a moment. Delena shippers happy? yay, let's go back to Stelena!!

Am no longer surprised.

-I felt for Ric's passing not so much with that Scooby Gang scene but how it affected both Elena and Jeremy. Jeremy made me cry, okay? And then Damon and then Elena. :P

-I could've done without the romantic scenes. Not one of them interested me in the least. Bonnie/Jamie indeed had no build-up. Caroline/Tyler *yawns*, Klaus/Caroline? Way too short to matter, and the worst of it....

Stefan/Elena of course.

I knew it was coming so I accepted it and just waited patiently for the next scene whenever we saw them. The way everything was suddenly alright between them was flabbergasting. It did feel like Damon/Elena last week was a dirty secret and a moment based on lust, I agree with that.

What shocked me the most though is this last scene between them. The way Stefan manipulated Elena's emotions about Alaric to make it all about him and their relationship? Just disgusting. I could've watched a scene with him comforting Elena, I could have. But not a scene when he turns this into a 'romantic' moment and he says she still has him like everyone else doesn't matter. Starting with his brother who was there for her when he was off playing the ripper with Klaus. Ugh.

-I couldn't stand Caroline all damn episode. Like really, with everyone she was with, I wanted to shake her. Ugh.

*off reading your second post*
Arabian: Damon & Elena20arabian on April 27th, 2012 11:43 pm (UTC)
Wow you sure hated this episode! And if YOU lose hope we're all doomed!

Fear not, I'm back to mostly hopeful. (I REALLY need to wait until the next day when an episode enrages the Damon, Damon/Elena-stan in me, LOL!)

I actually didn't hate the episode and didn't love it either. I actually liked the whole plot with Psycho!Bitch!Esther (I hate her with a passion) and Alaric and all. That's what saved the episode for me and why I didn't hate the episode. Shocker twist for the win!

I actually liked all of that stuff too.

Also I knew they would backpedal on Damon/Elena big time. That's always what they do whenever we get a moment. Delena shippers happy? yay, let's go back to Stelena!!

The thing is they DIDN'T backpedal. At all. They literally DID NOT DEAL WITH IT. Which I think is a good thing. Because it will erupt again; it has to, and when it does, I think that this time more than Jeremy will witness it and it will not be able to be just swept tidily under the rug.

I felt for Ric's passing not so much with that Scooby Gang scene but how it affected both Elena and Jeremy. Jeremy made me cry, okay? And then Damon and then Elena. :P

I actually felt for Elena most, then Damon (mostly for Damon, because we should have gotten some genuine, not snarky (no matter how affectionate) dialogue from Alaric to Damon, after this season of Ric treating him horribly), then Jeremy.

I could've done without the romantic scenes. Not one of them interested me in the least. Bonnie/Jamie indeed had no build-up. Caroline/Tyler *yawns*, Klaus/Caroline? Way too short to matter, and the worst of it....

Agreed, except for K/C. I thought that one scene with them was THE best romantic scene they've had in ages (except for the D/E stuff from 3.19 of course).

Stefan/Elena of course. I knew it was coming so I accepted it and just waited patiently for the next scene whenever we saw them. The way everything was suddenly alright between them was flabbergasting. It did feel like Damon/Elena last week was a dirty secret and a moment based on lust, I agree with that.

But it all makes sense (in my 2nd hopeful post). They jumped STRAIGHT back into denial mode. Straight back into it. And it just ain't gonna work this time.

What shocked me the most though is this last scene between them. The way Stefan manipulated Elena's emotions about Alaric to make it all about him and their relationship? Just disgusting. I could've watched a scene with him comforting Elena, I could have. But not a scene when he turns this into a 'romantic' moment and he says she still has him like everyone else doesn't matter. Starting with his brother who was there for her when he was off playing the ripper with Klaus. Ugh.

Considering a LOT of people saw that, there's no way that wasn't intentional to some degree. No way.

I couldn't stand Caroline all damn episode. Like really, with everyone she was with, I wanted to shake her. Ugh.

Long version short -- which is more detailed in longer post: Two things about her ... until told otherwise, I'm firmly convinced that Caroline has NO CLUE about all the horrible things Stefan did. She thought the murders over the summer were Klaus (she and Elena found the clippings together, Damon only told Elena later they were Stefan's). As for Wickery Bridge, I don't think ANYONE but Elena, Stefan, Damon and Klaus know what happened. It's completely in character for Elena to not have spilled that to anyone. Even her offhand comment about 'what are you going to kidnap me?' to Stefan in front of Bonnie was so offhand and throwaway with no response at all from Bonnie that, again, I choose to believe that Bonnie didn't know that he actually had done so. She just thought Elena was throwing out new nasties Stefan could do because he'd been SUCH a jerk. And THAT is all we know that Caroline has seen. Stefan be a jerk, but he's "better" now. Finally, her pushing so hard now? I totally read as her projecting HER situation (Stefan = Tyler, Damon = Klaus) onto Elena and that's why we're getting such NO, NO, NO! WRONG from her.

*off reading your second post*

Hopefully that helps; it sure helped me. :)
(no subject) - vanimy on April 28th, 2012 12:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
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Florencia: DE (Kiss) (3x19)florencia7 on April 28th, 2012 08:00 pm (UTC)
Well, I expected the worst from this episode & in this sense it definitely delivered ;)

Maybe I'm deluded, but I still think at the end of this season Elena will choose Damon. The conviction that, oddly enough, doesn't make very happy anymore because of, among other things, the SE dance conversation in this episode. I got that absolutely awful *impression* that they were basically albeit indirectly agreeing on Elena giving her relationship with Damon a shot & when (not if. When) it inevitably proves a failure SE will just happily get back together. They clearly ignore one little detail. That Damon is not a toy or a tool or a test center. He is not there for Stefan & Elena to use him for measuring the depth of their mutual feelings. He has *gasp* his own feelings. This episode really made it seem like neither Stefan nor Elena actually care what Damon is feeling. It's all about them & their feelings.

I totally agree about Bonnie & Jamie. She deserves better than a rushed quasi-romantic, quasi-storyline. I really love the fact that she just might have found somebody who cares for her & loves her but I feel like they robbed this potential relationship of actual build-up so very painfully much :[

Also, I feel so bad for Alaric... despite him being such a not good friend to Damon for SO many episodes. There was, however, a glimpse of their former friendship in their scene together & I liked that. I never wanted Alaric to die but I think it would've been better if he had died instead of turning into that weird vamp!vamp-hunter (did I even get this right? lol) that is SO going to get staked next week.

& I think I'm having a deja vu here. Another finale about Klaus skipping town? At least this time he's planning on taking Elena with him instead of Stefan, so I'm seeing some progress here lol
Arabian: Damon & Elena20arabian on April 28th, 2012 08:07 pm (UTC)
I got that absolutely awful *impression* that they were basically albeit indirectly agreeing on Elena giving her relationship with Damon a shot & when (not if. When) it inevitably proves a failure SE will just happily get back together. They clearly ignore one little detail. That Damon is not a toy or a tool or a test center. He is not there for Stefan & Elena to use him for measuring the depth of their mutual feelings. He has *gasp* his own feelings.

I got that from Stefan completely, but it didn't make me dislike him. It was perfectly in character; and it makes sense simply because Stefan is ALWAYS the chosen one. I don't think it's that he's aware that he's treating Damon's feelings as if they don't matter, it's just that his whole life, well, they didn't. No one ever chooses Damon. They always choose Stefan, they always prefer Stefan. As for Elena, I didn't get that from her because she was *trying* to bring up Damon, but when Stefan shot it down, she decided to just go with the flow and stay in that safe harbor bubble with him. It wasn't about Damon, no, but I didn't think it was about Stefan either. It was about Elena. Back in Stefan's company like that, she just fell back into the easy pattern of not. dealing. with. things. Because it's less likely to hurt in the moment.

I don't think Alaric will get staked next week, or period. Julie Plec mentioned that Alaric's ending is ... ambiguous. A staking wouldnt' be very ambiguous, LOL!

I'm curious to see what you think of my more positive write-up. :D
jamdouradojamdourado on April 29th, 2012 05:13 am (UTC)
So, this episode was a big deception. I thought it was my biased view but I'm glad I'm not the only one.

First, Caroline, what are they doing to you? I know you care about Stefan, but that's not right, Stefan had two years and just because she kissed Damon it's his turn?

That's one of the reasons I didn't like 3x19, when Elena said that it was Stefan's idea for her to see what she feels for Damon, like it's something easy for her to find out, he is like "I'm giving you this opportunity to deal with yours emotions and when you come back we can get back together" and Caroline is doing the same thing.
And that epic love thing was just wrong, I don't know if they were trying to do the same thing they did with Rose, but I just hated, for me, epic love doesn't need to be acknowledged, you just know.

And the dance scene, when Elena was trying to be honest, Stefan just let it go, for him it's not important her feelings for Damon and then Elena feels undeserving of his understanding, as if he didn't push her away or tread her badly.

And I hated at end of the episode all his speech, I know he is good again, but that wasn't the moment to focus on his good graces.
The rest of the episode was good, although I wasn't surprised with the Ric dying/not dying thing. I kind of wanted him to die, because I don't if I can Ric trying to kill Damon or Elena and I don't think that he would ever be OK with that if he go back to normal one day.

Bonnie was awesome, I can say she was my favorite on this episode. I didn't like Jamie at first, I still don't, but he is the only one that cares about Bonnie, the person and not Bonnie, the witch, so don't kill him, she deserves someone by her side. That's what feels like for her, they just go after her to do a spell.

And thank you show for not making Damon sorry for killing Bonnie's mother. Unlike some people he actually takes responsibility for his actions.
Arabian: Damon & Elena09arabian on April 29th, 2012 01:04 pm (UTC)
So, this episode was a big deception. I thought it was my biased view but I'm glad I'm not the only one.

I'm not sure what you mean by "deception." Hmm. I will say that you definitely were not the only one. I've read only one person on my flist who was NOT unhappy with it. However, I don't know if you've had the chance to read my second positive view, but I really am much more hopeful now.

First, Caroline, what are they doing to you? I know you care about Stefan, but that's not right, Stefan had two years and just because she kissed Damon it's his turn?

The only thing that makes sense is that Caroline is projecting her situation with Tyler and Klaus onto Elena (Stefan = Tyler, Damon = Klaus), and that's her issue.

That's one of the reasons I didn't like 3x19, when Elena said that it was Stefan's idea for her to see what she feels for Damon

That didn't bother me because I knew where it was coming from. Elena is scared about what she feels for Damon, and she's very, very confused (even Julie confirmed that about her feelings for Damon), so she hasn't wanted to deal with it because it's too much for her to handle amidst everything else -- including her guilt over feeling anything for Damon because of Stefan. No, Stefan doesn't deserve it, but Elena does love him, and she does feel guilty that no matter how often she told Stefan that there was nothing with Damon ... clearly there was.

like it's something easy for her to find out, he is like "I'm giving you this opportunity to deal with yours emotions and when you come back we can get back together"

Because that's what she wanted. She wanted it to be easy, but of course, it's not.

Caroline is doing the same thing.

Again, I think it's just Caroline projecting.

And the dance scene, when Elena was trying to be honest, Stefan just let it go, for him it's not important her feelings for Damon and then Elena feels undeserving of his understanding, as if he didn't push her away or tread her badly.

I talked about this a lot in my second post; I think that was very telling. These two don't work unless they are living in the world of delusion and pretense.

And I hated at end of the episode all his speech, I know he is good again, but that wasn't the moment to focus on his good graces.

I honestly don't know if Julie was trolling about that scene, because SO MANY PEOPLE (including reviews that didn't pick up on the denial/pretense stuff earlier) thought that Stefan was being emotionally manipulative there and taking advantage of her vulnerability.

The rest of the episode was good, although I wasn't surprised with the Ric dying/not dying thing. I kind of wanted him to die, because I don't if I can Ric trying to kill Damon or Elena and I don't think that he would ever be OK with that if he go back to normal one day.

Yup, Damon was right that it would have been best to give Ric a mercy killing. Ah well.

Bonnie was awesome, I can say she was my favorite on this episode. I didn't like Jamie at first, I still don't, but he is the only one that cares about Bonnie, the person and not Bonnie, the witch, so don't kill him, she deserves someone by her side. That's what feels like for her, they just go after her to do a spell.

Stefan and Damon do, but I don't agree that about Elena, Caroline, Jeremy or Matt. They are her friends, and have been there for her emotionally as such time and time again. I was frustrated with Bonnie telling Damon there was another choice about Abby (when really the only other options were outright killing Abby, turning or killing Bonnie, or Elena being killed), but I realized in my second post that was Bonnie's guilt about bringing Abby into it coming out.

And thank you show for not making Damon sorry for killing Bonnie's mother. Unlike some people he actually takes responsibility for his actions.

Yes, he does, he always does. If you read my second post, hopefully, it will make you feel better about the episode. :)

Edited at 2012-04-29 01:04 pm (UTC)