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13 January 2012 @ 03:11 am
3.11 - 'Our Town' (The Vampire Diaries)  
The Vampire Diaries came on tonight. I am happy about this television fact. :)

Ah, I love my show so much. Really, I truly, honestly do. Right now, my only true frustration is with the belief that they might put Stefan and Elena back together because it's "expected." And that's a REAL frustration because I really DO NOT get it. How can Elena go back to Stefan now? How? And how can I have any respect for her if she does? Whatever, I'm a Damon/Elena fan ... IT IS NOT THE SAME THING. I'd like to think that if Damon pulled any of the shit that he did in season 01/02 that was so horrifying AFTER a relationship between the two blossomed that I wouldn't want Elena with him either. And that's the key here for me. Stefan has been with her, knows what will hurt her the most -- MY GOD! WICKERY BRIDGE!! -- and yet he's doing it. The crap that Damon pulled was before he was "better." What Stefan is doing now is a conscious choice he's making that he KNOWS is HURTING Elena, is hurting Damon, is hurting all of the people he supposedly cares about.

Originally, I was annoyed with Klaus' "that kind of love never dies" line because I'm like really, show? What lovebug is up Klaus' butt about this greatest twu wuv that ever wuved crap between Stefan and Elena? Is the show trying to tell us something? After the bridge scene, I think, hope, (pray?) that it was. Using Klaus' belief that Stefan's love for Elena would win out in the end -- even though it's failed spectacularly over and over again, Klaus-y boy -- to show that, well, yeah, maybe it won't. Because that belief was proven wrong (in Klaus' eyes) when he DID have to back down because he believed that, yes, indeedy, Stefan would turn his human "blood source" into a vampire thus negating the usefulness of her blood.

And now I must go back there. WICKERY BRIDGE! I literally threw my hands up, mouth hanging open in shock when I realized where he was driving her. Let's put aside the horror of the fact that he is USING her to punish Klaus. Let's forget the horror of the fact that his way of using her is to terrify her, force-feed her his blood and threaten to turn her into a vampire just to punish Klaus. Yeah, let's put ALL OF THAT aside. He turned around and made it as horrifically awful as he could by doing so on WICKERY BRIDGE! WHERE SHE ALMOST DIED AND WHERE HER PARENTS DIED! HER. PARENTS. DIED on that bridge! I just -- I have no freaking words. It was horrifying, disgusting, terrifying, just plain awful. And once again the show is going there in showing abusive strains in the Stefan and Elena relationship. If she goes back to him ... God! It would be a thousand times worse than the anti-feminist message Bella of Twilight sends to young girls. Just say no.

Look, I know that Stefan loves Elena. I do not question that. I just don't think that he loves her so fully, so completely, so magically, so 'love never dies'-ly. If he did, he could NOT do what he did to her, what he's been doing to her. I know that part of his action was to make her hate him, but he'd already been doing a good enough job, so no, it doesn't justify it. It just does not justify it. Nothing justifies what he did. All of Damon's horrible actions -- and they were horrible -- came from a place of love (as Elena said). All of Stefan's horrible actions now are coming from a place of hate (for Klaus, because of what he's lost). But what he's lost is all because of him. Because he didn't trust in Elena or her love enough to believe that she would, could forgive him. So, I'm not feeling for him at all in this scenario. Not a single bit. I feel for Elena, but I want her to get over it, get over him because he doesn't deserve her awesome.

With that said, outside of the Stefan/Elena aspect of it, damn, Stefan was awesome tonight! (Well, he was actually awesomely horrible in the Stefan/Elena aspect, I mean outside of the Stefan/Elena-getting-back-together aspect of it.) Just total bad-assery. Snarking with Damon like a boss. Chilling, and all casual with Klaus. Taking Klaus' insult about Stefan's failure to make a point and then BAM! Beheading his hybrid. Out-villain-ing Klaus. Making Klaus motherfucking blink! YEAH! So awesome. Also awesome? Klaus. Okay, I give. I give. emiv might have helped nudged me here possibly, or maybe Joseph Morgan finally won me over, but yeah, for the first time I actually thought that it would be cool if Klaus stayed beyond this season. His interaction with Stefan -- as always for the win -- but also, I'm LOVING his interaction with Tyler too. It's insulting, but hilarious, how he treats Tyler like he's such a stupid, stupid little minion, but he keeps him around him because gee, he's grown fond of him. It's just totally awesome.

And then, oh me, oh my, that scene with Carol, Klaus and Damon was rewind-worthy to the extreme. Carol flummoxed in the middle but trying to act like she's all cool with it. Damon's "Don't take this the wrong way, but do you realize that you've been kissing the ass of an immortal hybrid who ruined your son's life?" followed by Klaus' snippiness to Damon before his tone transformed to this sweet, soft, low purr to Carol: "I never had to go through it myself more than twice, to be honest, but still, I'm very sympathetic." I was rolling. (It was the delivery on "sympathetic" that did me in.) Utterly priceless. And yeah, that right there really was the moment where Klaus FINALLY won me over. Part of it was because we truly saw in this episode just what everyone warned the Mystic Falls' crew about: Just how good Klaus is at being bad.

He got Carol speaking as his puppet not through violence nor malice, but with sweetness and understanding. The same thing he did to Liz at the end there. Sure, she's not going to jump on the Klaus-train (as it looks like Carol already has, oh Carol), but he used her greatest weakness -- her love for her daughter -- to gain entrance to her home, to gain brownie points and to gain the town sheriff -- who is also good buddies with the ringleader of his enemies -- having to owe him one. And then there was his scene with Caroline. While it was for show, to try and woo her to his side, there was no way everything he said wasn't genuine based on all we know of Klaus. I'm sure he has thought of ending it, and I'm sure he has enjoyed the benefits of living forever, of seeing the world and all the beauty it has to offer, of having a thousand birthdays and he translated that to Caroline with the grace and romance of a poet. And it was so clever, so very clever to have HER bite him in getting her cure. I kept waiting for him to bite into his wrist, but no, no, no, he wanted *her* to make the choice, to choose to accept his aid ... just as Carol did, just as Liz did. Brilliant.

And Caroline, oh Caroline. I loved the funeral for the human Caroline. It was awesome, if twisted, and I loved that it was Elena's idea, setting into motion Elena's need to let go of her past (not just the girl on Wickery Bridge, but Stefan as well, because like she is no longer that girl, Stefan -- the Stefan that she fell for -- is gone). What was also awesome about it, is that tied in with Caroline's scene with Klaus, it was bringing full circle her acceptance of her death by agreeing to have a funeral for the fact that she did die. Caroline accepted her death, and then when she nearly lost her undeath, she admitted to Klaus that she didn't want to die, accepting fully her new life. Beautifully done. Also, I found it so interesting that they called back to the (for lack of a better word) shallow side of Caroline that Klaus related to. Not that it's shallow to want to live, or to see beautiful things ... but that was the surface of what he sold her on it: the chance to see the beautiful things of the world. But of course, like Caroline isn't shallow, this wasn't shallow. It was about so much more; it was about living life, even undead life, to the fullest and appreciating all that is at your disposal with that long life. That it was Klaus that showed her that so fully was ... interesting.

And, based on that little bit, it certainly does look like Joseph Morgan and Candice Accola have a nice chemistry. (And they are certainly way less boring than Tyler and Caroline -- their first scene? I felt nothing! their second? I kept waiting for him to bite her.) And with that scene, I've decided that they are now my secondary Caroline-couple choice (as Stefan/Rebekah is my secondary Stefan-couple choice), since of course, Stefan and Caroline are my first choice for each other! :) With that said, I had an interesting thought. When Rebekah was introduced in "The End of the Affair," I recounted many similarities that I found between her and Caroline in my never-ending desire to prove that, yes, indeed, this is all laying the groundwork for Stefan and Caroline, damnit! Well, what did we have in that episode? A triangle of sorts between Klaus, Rebekah and Stefan. And what relationship had somewhat incestuous vibes? Rebekah and Klaus! So maybe, just maybe this is all set-up eventually for a Stefan/Caroline/Klaus triangle! Hmm............ (Although, I will admit that Stefan actually finding out that Caroline nearly died because of his vendetta would have given my theory a teeny bit more weight. Ah well. I STILL BELIEVE!)

I also believe that these writers know what they are doing and HAH! to anyone who says otherwise. Which many did after last week's episode regarding Elena's compulsion of Jeremy (okay, fine it was Damon's, but he was doing it on Elena's behalf ... and then he kissed her!). Seriously, so much for the writers not knowing what they are doing with Elena's character, and being clueless to the wrongness of what Elena did to Jeremy. Bonnie flat-out said what a lot of those who had an issue with it were saying. And that? Is called DAMN GOOD WRITING! And another sign of that writing was in the end scene. Recalling the "funeral" from earlier in the show, drawing on the past of Elena prior to the car crash -- when we didn't know her -- by speaking to Matt, the one who she hasn't really shared in these supernatural goings-on and with her words tying it back to what she did to Jeremy, it was an acknowledgement (again), that she knew what she had done was wrong.

However, she's NOT the person she was on that bridge who saw between black and white clearly and if she ever strayed from white, it was the lightest shades of gray. Elena is simply NOT that person anymore. She makes the hard, awful choices now. Right or wrong, she makes them, and she stands by them because that is what her life is about now. Very hard, very awful choices that are made based on keeping those she loves alive because she's already lost so many. It's kill or be killed; it's estrangement or death. I also kept thinking throughout the episode how young Elena looked, which isn't something I generally notice. It hit me in the bridge scene why. I could be wrong, but it looked like they used the same make-up and hair styling on Nina Dobrev as they did in the Pilot. It was the look of the Elena we first saw paired with the harder Elena that she's become. And it just tied all of it in so beautifully. So kudos to the make-up department (who, truth be told, did an overall great job ... I mean, Ian Somerhalder looked fucking fabulous! HAWT!)

I especially noticed that HAWT-ness during the porch scene (!!) which I loved quite, quite a lot -- if not as much as last week ... understandably. :) But this one, oh, this one was pretty awesome too. I just loved that they were there, once again. Once again, Damon was trying to make her feel better, them getting close, and then she just said it. And I dunno, I just loved how she said it, the tension, the stress, the want of it all nearly bringing tears to her voice coupled with the guilt, the emotion from what had just happened with Stefan. And how she said it, not like she didn't want him to because she didn't want to kiss him, but because she didn't want him to because she DID want to kiss him and like before, she would kiss him back. And that would be "wrong." I loved that he agreed not to kiss her, not planning to do so, but I loved even more that when she said it wasn't right, he disagreed and in such a soft, confident way that it was right, just not "right now." And I was just all AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Sigh* I love my couple soooooooooo much! We had the direct callback to and dealing with the kissy-face porch scene, but also the sly hints to it earlier in the episode. And how! I adored that the episode began with Damon all smiley-happy, in the SHOWER! contrasted with Elena all sweaty and trying to take her mind off of ... things! (Okay, fine I loved Damon in the shower!) Then, then, then we had Stefan noticing how chipper Damon was (hee!) and Elena oh-so-casually asking Alaric if he'd seen Damon, and then her oh-so-casual 'yeah, whatever, no reason' reaction when he asked why. (Double hee!)

And, of course, what's interesting is taking into account his confidence at the end of the episode paired with his happiness at the beginning, and yet, when it comes up that something is off with Elena, he automatically assumes that it's wrapped up in Stefan. And this time, it was all wrapped up in Damon. So, obviously, he's getting there in the realization that yeah, the feelings are returned, but he still fully believes that she's still pretty much mostly all about Stefan. I mean, I just didn't get the read at all that he was playing it cool with Ric -- which would have made sense since, yes, others were right and Ric was being rather tense with Damon last week, and this week, he was a total tool! Dude, RIC! What the hell!?!? Ahem, back on point ... Damon and Elena. So yeah, Stefan is still very much an obstacle between these two, but I think he's becoming less and less in Damon's mind, and in Elena's too because while she still doesn't think it would be right, she's clearly, obviously torn. WHEEEEEEEEE!

Alrighty, random thoughts ...

- My one negative about this episode was the bad transitions. We went from Stefan knocking Matt out to ... Matt calling out "Sheriff Forbes" as he carried Caroline into her home, having woken up and found Caroline all off-camera. I'm assuming that's something that was lost on the editing floor, but it was a bit jarring. Also jarring, but not as much, and possibly an intentional cut so that we could have the porch conversation as it played out was Damon picking Elena up from Wickery Bridge. That's a moment, considering the circumstance and the location, that I would have liked to have seen.

- So we now have actual canon of what I've always figured: Damon is loaded.

- A plain, non-supernatural murder in Mystic Falls? Okay then. Of Dr. Fell's icky ex, okay then. Interesting. (Speaking of, I was quite amused by the fact that even knowing it wasn't supernatural, Liz STILL had Damon come to check it out. BWAH!)

- Hmm, so still on that tangent to a degree, obviously, we're supposed to suspect something may be up with Dr. Meredith Fell. I don't know how I feel about her yet, they're really doling stuff out with her slo-o-o-wly. Very unlike this show. I'm playing a wait-and-see game with her, and with Meredith and Alaric.

- I didn't tear up during the recitation of Caroline's eulogy, but I did get close. Perhaps I might have had all comments been positive ... MATT!

- I so loved that Damon flat-out said "I know my brother better than anyone" and unlike when Elena says it, it actually, you know, is the truth and not the delusion of a teenager experiencing the twuest wuv that ever wuved with a 169-year-old vampire.

- I don't think words can describe how much I LOVED Klaus noting the so-teenage-bracelet that Tyler gave Caroline for her birthday, and then turning around and giving her that uber-expensive, fancy-schmancy DIAMOND bracelet. HEE! Oh, Klaus, you romantic, you! (That's why he so wants to believe in the twuest wuv that ever wuved!)

- I was mildly horrified and yet amused (as was Elena) at the fact that Damon was proud of Stefan's horrible actions earlier in the evening. Now had Elena actually been hurt, or turned, I don't think Damon would have been as blasé about it as was, but since it all ended well (Klaus blinked!) and he's standing on their porch having another moment with the girl, he was able to just see the good that came out of it. Again, horrifying, yet amusing. And I just love that Elena felt the same way because it shows yet again, she knows him, she gets him, she can deal with him and she's fine with his less than stellar-qualities.

ETA: Discussion on dreamingahead's lj got me thinking more about this scene with them and it's actually made me love it more. She was more on the horrified rather than amused side (well, more heartbroken for Elena rather than horrified) side of things. And in responding to her comments, I went back and rewatched the scene a few more times and came up with a new interpretation that makes me love Damon all the more.

Damon's comment (and delivery of comment) actually read to me as Damon trying to make Elena feel better. After all, he *did* ask her first how she was doing. She said she was okay, obviously still upset, but she was okay. He then talked about what Stefan had done, not gleefully, but stating the fact of it almost regretfully that yeah it sucked, but it got them a win. It wasn't until she said "don't sound so gleeful" that he mentioned, with the flirty eye-thing going, being a little proud of Stefan. And considering her half-smile/roll-eyed reaction to that, now I think it was more to get her to smile. Which he did. I'm not saying he isn't a little proud of Stefan, but Damon said it as he did to get her to smile, I think. In her amused/somewhat annoyed way that she does at him when he's being so very 'Damon.' And why I think this was all about making her feel better is because right after, automatically, his smile dimmed and he asked sincerely again "tell me, really, are you going to be okay?"

Rewatching it, I thought that how he responded was actually pretty sweetly done. He was stating facts, trying to lighten her up a bit and showing concern all at the same time without crowding or pushing her.

- Wheee!! I love when we get any Damon/Liz, so I'm in heaven when we get awesome Damon/Liz as we did tonight. Liz being all strong and sheriff-y, Liz being all bad-ass and resisting Damon's charms to lay down the law and Damon being totally cool with that, his flirty eye-thing melting away as he listened to her serious bizness words. I just love their friendship SO MUCH.

Like this show. I LOVE IT SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!! :D
 
 
 
cwaterwheel on January 13th, 2012 09:23 am (UTC)
Hey! New face here, haha - I kinda creepily friended you sometime last week because I'm new to the TVD fandom and I loved reading your thoughts, and sorry I haven't commented or introduced myself until now. Hope it's not weird :]

re. Klaus and Caroline - if I ship them at all, it's only because of how good JM and Candice Accola are as actors. I mean, I can't really see why their characters would want to be together? For Klaus, Caroline's just one of many, many vampires he must have seen across his lifetime, and for Caroline, I mean, Klaus killed Jenna, and terrorized Elena and all.

And it was so clever, so very clever to have HER bite him in getting her cure. I kept waiting for him to bite into his wrist, but no, no, no, he wanted *her* to make the choice, to choose to accept his aid ... just as Carol did, just as Liz did. Brilliant.
it's the first time that anyone at all's bitten Klaus, iirc?

I loved that he agreed not to kiss her, not planning to do so, but I loved even more that when she said it wasn't right, he disagreed and in such a soft, confident way that it was right, just not "right now."
Damon's character development continues - he now thinks himself worthy of Elena; not only that, emotional maturity, that he now knows when to push and when to draw the line.

And how! I adored that the episode began with with Damon all smiley-happy, in the SHOWER!
Damon being so happy makes me a little apprehensive though - no one's happiness really lasts, not on this show >.>

and being clueless to the wrongness of what Elena did to Jeremy. Bonnie flat-out said what a lot of those who had an issue with it were saying. And that? Is called DAMN GOOD WRITING!
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the compulsion of Jeremy - especially since this is one area I think I disagree with you on! I'm not sure the writers intended this, but IMHO, Stefan's line of friends not stripping friends of their free will just cast Elena's actions in a terrible light.

(Speaking of, I was quite amused by the fact that even knowing it wasn't supernatural, Liz STILL had Damon come out to check it out. BWAH!)
I did not realise this! Loved all the Damon/Liz moments, and how the show does so much with their secondary characters. The Matt/Elena in this episode was very notable for me too - of course, being the doppelganger, Elena can't get away from all this crazy anytime soon, but I recalled her moment with Stefan about wanting to grow old and have children, and it struck me that Matt would be great for her, too. And of course, the more we get of Elena's humanity, the more the background tension of whether or not she's eventually going to be turned heightens.

And one last one before I end off: THANK YOU for your stance on Stefan's abusiveness. Paul Wesley does dick!Stefan amazingly, but yeah, no, I cannot see them together again after this.

(so sorry this ended up so long D: )

Edited at 2012-01-13 09:23 am (UTC)
Arabian: Elena05arabian on January 13th, 2012 11:03 pm (UTC)
PART 1

Hey! New face here, haha - I kinda creepily friended you sometime last week because I'm new to the TVD fandom and I loved reading your thoughts, and sorry I haven't commented or introduced myself until now. Hope it's not weird :]

No, no, it's totally fine -- you're doing so here and I always love comments! :)

re. Klaus and Caroline - if I ship them at all, it's only because of how good JM and Candice Accola are as actors. I mean, I can't really see why their characters would want to be together? For Klaus, Caroline's just one of many, many vampires he must have seen across his lifetime, and for Caroline, I mean, Klaus killed Jenna, and terrorized Elena and all.

Agreed. But we don't even know what direction/how they are going with this. I could completely change my mind after a few weeks, I'm just tentatively happier with this simply because I want to enjoy Caroline's scenes -- all of them -- and I do NOT really enjoy the Caroline/Tyler scenes, and this one with Klaus.... I just, there was such an old-world beauty about how he spoke with her. I've never seen Klaus like that before. So who knows? The love of a good woman and all ... Still, my main Caroline-pairing is and forever will be Stefan.

it's the first time that anyone at all's bitten Klaus, iirc?

Yup. We kept expecting it in 3.02 from Stefan when he was were-bitten, but nope, Klaus bit himself so I was just expecting it again.

Damon's character development continues - he now thinks himself worthy of Elena; not only that, emotional maturity, that he now knows when to push and when to draw the line.

I re-iterate my faith in these writers because as painful as so much was last season with Damon, I kept saying that it was necessary to get him better. It was journey of development and backtracks happen. And we are seeing the result of that season. Damon learned, he's growing! And I love it.

Damon being so happy makes me a little apprehensive though - no one's happiness really lasts, not on this show >.>

I'm okay with it, though, because going back to last season -- Damon literally DID NOT have one single moment of true happiness all season, so I'm quite happy that he's getting his happy this season. Sure it won't last, yup, this show, but at least he's GETTING SOME (happiness) now. That is a BIG step from last season.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the compulsion of Jeremy - especially since this is one area I think I disagree with you on!

I'm pretty sure I talked about in last week's post a little bit. But to succinctly put it: I feel the same way I did about when Damon force-fed Elena his blood in "The Last Day." Both were absolutely right in what they did to protect the other person (in Damon's case, Elena; in Elena's, Jeremy). However, they had absolutely no right to make that decision for the other person.

I'm not sure the writers intended this, but IMHO, Stefan's line of friends not stripping friends of their free will just cast Elena's actions in a terrible light.

Oh, I'm sure it was intended. Bonnie was already dinging her in this episode. I don't think the writers intend at ALL for what Elena did to be seen as anything other than wrong. And, again, as I said above, while I think it was the right thing to do (for Jeremy's safety), Elena didn't have the right to make that choice for him.

I did not realise this!

I didn't realize -- hey! that's not supernatural! -- until I was jotting down thoughts for my post actually, hee!

Loved all the Damon/Liz moments

I ALWAYS adore Damon/Liz. LOVE THEM SO MUCH!

and how the show does so much with their secondary characters

Very much agreed. Their secondary characters are stronger and more fleshed out than other show's lead characters!
(no subject) - waterwheel on January 14th, 2012 01:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 18th, 2012 12:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 13th, 2012 11:04 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Beccy: VD ~ Stefan/Caroline1epic_love on January 13th, 2012 10:05 am (UTC)
YES, YES, YES to what you said about it not being the same thing with what Stefan's doing now to Elena, and what Damon's done in the past. I thought maybe I was just being a hypocritical DE shipper, but you wrote exactly what I've been thinking. It's different Elena forgiving Damon for all the bad things he's done (to her and others) because they happened when she had no real feelings for him, if he did it now it would be a totally different story. But with Stefan, she's watching someone that she loves/ed do all these terrible things to her, and that would be so much harder/impossible to forgive.

I want a Stefan/Caroline/Klaus love triangle too!! It would be AMAZING!! As soon as Klaus stepped into Caroline's room, I was like "oh god, i ship it." How come I keep shipping Caroline with EVERYONE, except who the show clearly wants us to be shipping her with (Tyler)?
Arabian: Stefan & Caroline01arabian on January 13th, 2012 11:15 pm (UTC)
YES, YES, YES to what you said about it not being the same thing with what Stefan's doing now to Elena, and what Damon's done in the past. I thought maybe I was just being a hypocritical DE shipper, but you wrote exactly what I've been thinking. It's different Elena forgiving Damon for all the bad things he's done (to her and others) because they happened when she had no real feelings for him, if he did it now it would be a totally different story. But with Stefan, she's watching someone that she loves/ed do all these terrible things to her, and that would be so much harder/impossible to forgive.

Yes, thank you for putting so clearly what I was trying to say. It IS different; it really is.

I want a Stefan/Caroline/Klaus love triangle too!! It would be AMAZING!! As soon as Klaus stepped into Caroline's room, I was like "oh god, i ship it." How come I keep shipping Caroline with EVERYONE, except who the show clearly wants us to be shipping her with (Tyler)?

Yeah. I mean, Caroline and Tyler just DO NOT work for me, and I'm just not seeing much passion for them in many places. But maybe they did recognize that, thus the Klaus angle?

x5valex5vale on January 13th, 2012 12:06 pm (UTC)
What Stefan is doing now is a conscious choice he's making that he KNOWS is HURTING Elena, is hurting Damon, is hurting all of the people he supposedly cares about.
And even if he cares, he doesn't at the same time. I think he is doing because he wants revenge, but also because somehow he wants to be hated, so they can let him go eventually.

I do not question that. I just don't think that he loves her so fully, so completely, so magically, so 'love never dies'-ly.
No he doesn't, but I also think the main problem is that Stefan doesn't love himself at all at this point and feeling like he has nothing left to lose, he just pushes everything over the edge.

Because he didn't trust in Elena or her love enough to believe that she would, could forgive him.
I agree at this point, but I do feel for him because his fear of not being good enough didn't allow him to fight.

Just total bad-assery. Snarking with Damon like a boss. Chilling, and all casual with Klaus. Taking Klaus' insult about Stefan's failure to make a point and then BAM! Beheading his hybrid. Out-villain-ing Klaus. Making Klaus motherfucking blink! YEAH! So awesome.
YES! I love badass!Stefan, not to mention Klaus who I love. And this is weird because I wasn't actually fond of him...I think it's interaction with Damon won me over.

And then, oh me, oh my, that scene with Carol, Klaus and Damon was rewind-worthy to the extreme.
Glad I am not the only one who noticed the awesomeness of that scene.

And, based on that little bit, it certainly does look like Joseph Morgan and Candice Accola have a nice chemistry.
YES!

And another sign of that writing was in the end scene. Recalling the "funeral" from earlier in the show, drawing on the past of Elena prior to the car crash -- when we didn't know her -- by speaking to Matt, the one who she hasn't really shared in these supernatural goings-on and with her words tying it back to what she did to Jeremy, it was an acknowledgement (again), that she knew what she had done was wrong.
GOOD WRITING IS GOOD!
I really don't think Elena has never been so well written like in this episode :) Well of course it's not true but this time I think she was perfect.

... I loved that he agreed not to kiss her, not planning to do so, but I loved even more that when she said it wasn't right, he disagreed and in such a soft, confident way that it was right, just not "right now."
And Elena looking at him going away? Everything was just perfect.

So, obviously, he's getting there in the realization that yeah, the feelings are returned, but he still fully believes that she's still pretty much mostly all about Stefan.
This is very mature of Damon. He's already been there. He has to be acreful.


So we now have actual canon of what I've always figured: Damon is loaded.
What do you mean? I have an idea but I would like to know if I got it right.

I so loved that Damon flat-out said "I know my brother better than anyone" and unlike when Elena says it, it actually, you know, is the truth and not the delusion of a teenager experiencing the twuest wuv that ever wuved with a 169-year-old vampire.
IT made me so happy too!


Like this show. I LOVE IT SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!! :D
WORD!
Arabian: Damon & Elena14arabian on January 13th, 2012 11:37 pm (UTC)
I think he is doing because he wants revenge, but also because somehow he wants to be hated, so they can let him go eventually.

And I know that some (many? most?) are feeling sympathy for that reason, but I just am not. Because this is ALL ON HIM. It was made explicitly, perfectly clear to him that he was wanted, he was loved, he would be forgiven. It's not the same thing as with Damon not feeling good enough, not feeling like he was worth being saved. He felt that way because he'd never been given an indication prior that he *was* good enough, that he *was* worth saving. Unlike Stefan, who's had sunshine blown up his ass his entire existence about what a special, worthy snowflake he is. So yeah, I'm just not sympathetic. I love him, but I don't feel sorry for the place he's in right now.

I also think the main problem is that Stefan doesn't love himself at all at this point and feeling like he has nothing left to lose, he just pushes everything over the edge.

I agree; but I still stand by what I said above. That is HIS issue, one that he has created that has no basis in the reality of his existence. He has ALWAYS been loved. He has ALWAYS been chosen. He has ALWAYS been forgiven. And nothing that Elena has ever said or done in any way indicated that this wouldn't be the same case.

I agree at this point, but I do feel for him because his fear of not being good enough didn't allow him to fight.

Beating a dead horse, lol! What I wrote above.

I love badass!Stefan, not to mention Klaus who I love. And this is weird because I wasn't actually fond of him...I think it's interaction with Damon won me over.

Damon makes everything better by association.

I really don't think Elena has never been so well written like in this episode :) Well of course it's not true but this time I think she was perfect.

I thought she was written beautifully in the last episode, and off the top of my head in "The Sacrifice," "The Dinner Party," "The Reckoning," and "As I Lay Dying." I'm sure there are others, but I generally find her a very well-written, conceived character. I think that most issues about her are based on the perception that some viewers believe they *should* be having about Elena due to other television shows, and not how Elena is actually written.

And Elena looking at him going away? Everything was just perfect.

Ooh, I forgot to mention that, but I loved it too.

What do you mean? I have an idea but I would like to know if I got it right.

Saying someone is loaded is saying they are very, very, very rich! :)

Edited at 2012-01-14 12:26 am (UTC)
(no subject) - x5vale on January 16th, 2012 10:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 18th, 2012 12:18 am (UTC) (Expand)
Aly J.: TVD -- D/E (4)simply_aly on January 13th, 2012 12:07 pm (UTC)
So maybe, just maybe this is all set-up eventually for a Stefan/Caroline/Klaus triangle!

Not to rain on your parade, but I think it's more Tyler/Caroline/Klaus than Stefan/Caroline/Klaus. Stefan's too busy being the better villain to notice that Klaus is going after Caroline.

On another note, I loved that Damon ended this episode's porch scene with a "Goodnight" just as he did last time. And the completely unconcealed hope in his eyes during the "not right now" was perfect.
Arabian: Damon & Elena06arabian on January 14th, 2012 12:19 am (UTC)
Not to rain on your parade, but I think it's more Tyler/Caroline/Klaus than Stefan/Caroline/Klaus. Stefan's too busy being the better villain to notice that Klaus is going after Caroline.

Oh, no, I don't think it's anything now (if at all), I just think it's interesting parallels that are already set up. I expect that Tyler will be a big part of this for probably most of this season, I just don't see Tyler as having any kind of equality in the long run, whereas Stefan can/will/does. And again, I just thought it was really interesting taking into account "The End of the Affair" and the similarities on display between the characters of Rebekah and Caroline. I just don't care about Tyler much or Tyler/Caroline at all, so I tend to gloss over discussing them, LOL!

On another note, I loved that Damon ended this episode's porch scene with a "Goodnight" just as he did last time.

I thought of that while watching it (each time), but I get forgetting to jot it down in my notes. I loved it too.

And the completely unconcealed hope in his eyes during the "not right now" was perfect.

*Sigh* I know.................
(no subject) - simply_aly on January 14th, 2012 06:09 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 18th, 2012 12:20 am (UTC) (Expand)
Diana: Vampire Diaries - Bonnie is satisfiedbutterfly on January 13th, 2012 12:46 pm (UTC)
Stefan has been with her, knows what will hurt her the most -- MY GOD! WICKERY BRIDGE!! -- and yet he's doing it. The crap that Damon pulled was before he was "better." What Stefan is doing now is a conscious choice he's making that he KNOWS is HURTING Elena, is hurting Damon, is hurting all of the people he supposedly cares about.

Yeah, this for me, too. He doesn't have to choose to do things to hurt her and when he feels like it's ~necessary to hurt her, he doesn't need to specifically use their personal history in order to make that pain and fear as strong as possible.

Wickery bridge! I can't even.

(which isn't to say that I didn't love that scene for both characters, because I actually really did - but it's not an indicator of a good or healthy relationship)

And it was so clever, so very clever to have HER bite him in getting her cure. I kept waiting for him to bite into his wrist, but no, no, no, he wanted *her* to make the choice, to choose to accept his aid ... just as Carol did, just as Liz did. Brilliant.

I know, right? It was amazing. Klaus was so flawless tonight, I can't even.

Bonnie flat-out said what a lot of those who had an issue with it were saying.

Yep. The writers knew what they were doing.
Arabian: Bonnie01arabian on January 14th, 2012 12:30 am (UTC)
[Stefan] doesn't have to choose to do things to hurt her and when he feels like it's ~necessary to hurt her, he doesn't need to specifically use their personal history in order to make that pain and fear as strong as possible.

Exactly. I just said to someone, it's more indications of an abusive relationship. He's upset about *his* choices and so he's punishing *her* because he messed up to make her "get it." And I'm all what the fuck ever, Stefan.

Wickery bridge! I can't even.

I KNOW! I just ... head still can not wrap around the awful of that.

(which isn't to say that I didn't love that scene for both characters, because I actually really did - but it's not an indicator of a good or healthy relationship)

Yes, yes, yes, yes............... I love Elena, I love this road that Stefan is on towards his eventual recovery/redemption, whatever, but I love the idea of Stefan/Elena even less after this scene. Their relationship is terrible, and very unhealthy.

Klaus was so flawless tonight, I can't even.

Yup, and you know that's high praise coming from me about Klaus.

Yep. The writers knew what they were doing.

Hmm.... Wanna bet no one who complained will backtrack and admit that? Yeah, right.
eolivet on January 13th, 2012 01:33 pm (UTC)
(Hee, if this post had a title it would be "IRONC ICON IS IRONIC")

Because last night, for the first time...ever?

I REALLY LIKED MATT. :/

So much that I might check the little box next to his name in the poll. :)

I just felt his history SO MUCH last night -- with Caroline, with Elena, even with Bonnie. He was a GREAT friend to both Caroline and Elena. :) I REALLY liked him (almost...gasp! LOVED) him as the only human guy with no supernatural powers, who's seen both his former girlfriends become so involved in this supernatural world, and accepted them both despite it, and for it. I felt no romantic chemistry with him and Elena, but really like he was the boy next door, seeing his childhood crush all those years later. It was a beautiful scene (as was the funeral) and the actor did a GREAT job with both.

What am I always saying about TVD? THEY KNOW THEIR ACTORS' STRENGTHS. :D

Ahh, did you notice how they're setting up Meredith..."One of my patients died last night" (LOLOLOL) cut to...dead ex-boyfriend in the woods. Oops. She says she's a founder...guess the Fells were...founders, too? Ahh, Mystic Falls history...

All of Damon's horrible actions -- and they were horrible -- came from a place of love (as Elena said). All of Stefan's horrible actions now are coming from a place of hate (for Klaus, because of what he's lost).

Beautifully said. I know the Stefan/Elena folks will say when you love someone, you go for what hurts the most, but there are some places you just DON'T GO EVER. As you alluded to, why couldn't he say "I'll snap Elena's neck," instead of "I'll drive her off Wickery Bridge." "Your fear sold it" is a lameass excuse.

OMG Klaus/Caroline...damn. Was NOT expecting that. Heeeeeee. YES, let's get a proper Klaus/Caroline/Stefan love triangle up in here!!!

And finally, "It's right. Just not right now." Nice, Damon...nice. ;) GOOD writing this ep -- I really noticed it (more than usual, hee! :)
Arabian: Damon & Elena15arabian on January 14th, 2012 12:35 am (UTC)
I REALLY LIKED MATT. :/

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just felt his history SO MUCH last night -- with Caroline, with Elena, even with Bonnie. He was a GREAT friend to both Caroline and Elena. :)

Well, ironically, I had an issue with how he was with Caroline a bit, but we'll let that slide. I kinda wonder if you did a rewatch of the show, if you'd have a different impression of Matt now?

I REALLY liked him (almost...gasp! LOVED) him as the only human guy with no supernatural powers, who's seen both his former girlfriends become so involved in this supernatural world, and accepted them both despite it, and for it. I felt no romantic chemistry with him and Elena, but really like he was the boy next door, seeing his childhood crush all those years later. It was a beautiful scene (as was the funeral) and the actor did a GREAT job with both.

I agree completely, and the former is partly why I genuinely like Matt, and the latter, well, I already talked about how much I loved that scene!

Ahh, did you notice how they're setting up Meredith..."One of my patients died last night" (LOLOLOL) cut to...dead ex-boyfriend in the woods. Oops. She says she's a founder...guess the Fells were...founders, too? Ahh, Mystic Falls history...

Yeah, but it's just so ... obvious? So, I dunno. I'm keeping my reservations until we get more.

[All of Damon's horrible actions -- and they were horrible -- came from a place of love (as Elena said). All of Stefan's horrible actions now are coming from a place of hate (for Klaus, because of what he's lost).]

Beautifully said.


Thank you. For once I got what I meant across succinctly, LOL!

I know the Stefan/Elena folks will say when you love someone, you go for what hurts the most, but there are some places you just DON'T GO EVER.

YES!

As you alluded to, why couldn't he say "I'll snap Elena's neck," instead of "I'll drive her off Wickery Bridge." "Your fear sold it" is a lameass excuse.

Still love Stefan and his fucked-up ways, but very pissed at him for what he did to Elena.

OMG Klaus/Caroline...damn. Was NOT expecting that. Heeeeeee. YES, let's get a proper Klaus/Caroline/Stefan love triangle up in here!!!

Heaven, I'm in heaven ....

And finally, "It's right. Just not right now." Nice, Damon...nice. ;) GOOD writing this ep -- I really noticed it (more than usual, hee! :)

This is the same gal who wrote "Ghost World" -- which inexplicably has such a bad rap! I think she's really good at the emotions of the characters. And I liked how she wrote Damon/Elena. I was a little worried since we hadn't seen them in her first episode, but she done did awesome with them. :)
(no subject) - badboy_fangirl on January 14th, 2012 12:56 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 14th, 2012 01:09 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - badboy_fangirl on January 14th, 2012 03:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 14th, 2012 03:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - badboy_fangirl on January 14th, 2012 07:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 18th, 2012 12:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
wiccabuffy: TVD - Caroline/Neurotic control freak!wiccabuffy on January 13th, 2012 04:42 pm (UTC)
The show got me. I am now a Klaus/Caroline shipper....
Arabian: Caroline05arabian on January 14th, 2012 12:20 am (UTC)
It was SUCH a beautifully-written and framed scene.
Alisha: TVD (Caroline/Stefan) Lightkalishaka on January 13th, 2012 05:48 pm (UTC)
I can't even give further comment. You pretty much said every thought I had while watching this episode. Every thought. It's kind of scary. Get out of my head. =)
Arabian: Stefan & Caroline03arabian on January 14th, 2012 12:20 am (UTC)
WE MUST TALK AGAIN SOMETIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(no subject) - kalishaka on January 15th, 2012 02:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 18th, 2012 01:55 am (UTC) (Expand)
sassy, classy, and a bit smart-assy: Text: insert fangirl squeebadboy_fangirl on January 13th, 2012 06:31 pm (UTC)
The Wickery Bridge stuff was so CHILLING, it really was. I mean, for all the people who think it's *impossible* for Elena to love or want to be with Damon after what he did to Jeremy, we now have our moment. Although, I had many more moments before, but you're right--it's one thing for Elena to forgive Stefan. It's a whole other thing for to ever go back to him.

But what he's lost is all because of him. Because he didn't trust in Elena or her love enough to believe that she would, could forgive him.
This really is the crux of it. It's because Stefan cannot forgive himself, or accept himself for what he is: A VAMPIRE. This all goes back, for me, to the idea that even with all his screwball ways, Damon is actually the healthier of the two of them. He knows what he is, and he accepts it. Sure, he misses being human, but he's not sitting around lamenting. Not his style.

But Stefan and Klaus, and Damon being all *proudface* of Stefan for making Klaus blink? Ridiculously good. I LOVE THIS SHOW, have I mentioned that? ;-)

Ian's hotness this episode broadsided me in the scene with Carol and Klaus. *fans self*

(Speaking of, I was quite amused by the fact that even knowing it wasn't supernatural, Liz STILL had Damon come out to check it out. BWAH!)
He's her BFF! When he called her on being "sheriff-y" I may have melted myself...
Arabian: Damon&Liz02arabian on January 14th, 2012 12:39 am (UTC)
it's one thing for Elena to forgive Stefan. It's a whole other thing for to ever go back to him.

This. SO MUCH THIS!!

It's because Stefan cannot forgive himself, or accept himself for what he is: A VAMPIRE. This all goes back, for me, to the idea that even with all his screwball ways, Damon is actually the healthier of the two of them. He knows what he is, and he accepts it. Sure, he misses being human, but he's not sitting around lamenting. Not his style.

Absolutely, and that's probably one of the reasons I prefer Damon over Stefan. Damon's issues are based on actual foundation, uncaring father, halo'ed brother who pushed (even without realizing it) the knife in deeper, first love completely screwed him over, second vampire he met mushied over his baby bro and sent him on his way without a word. Stefan's issues? Are all created in his head. He's always been loved, been chosen, been forgiven. He is punishing himself for being who he is ... and now he's hurting other people -- and those he loves -- in the process. Oh, Stefan. Dumbass.

But Stefan and Klaus, and Damon being all *proudface* of Stefan for making Klaus blink? Ridiculously good. I LOVE THIS SHOW, have I mentioned that? ;-)

Yes, you have and I concur. Speaking of Damon all proudface for Stefan, I'm not sure if you saw my response to Olga in her post, and I edited this after you responded here, so I'm gonna add it here too.

Damon's comment (and delivery of comment) actually read to me as Damon trying to make Elena feel better. After all, he *did* ask her first how she was doing. She said she was okay, obviously still upset, but she was okay. He then talked about what Stefan had done, not gleefully, but stating the fact of it almost regretfully that yeah it sucked, but it got them a win. It wasn't until she said "don't sound so gleeful" that he mentioned, with the flirty eye-thing going, being a little proud of Stefan. And considering her half-smile/roll-eyed reaction to that, now I think it was more to get her to smile. Which he did. I'm not saying he isn't a little proud of Stefan, but Damon said it as he did to get her to smile, I think. In her amused/somewhat annoyed way that she does at him when he's being so very 'Damon.' And why I think this was all about making her feel better is because right after, automatically, his smile dimmed and he asked sincerely again "tell me, really, are you going to be okay?"

Rewatching it, I thought that how he responded was actually pretty sweetly done. He was stating facts, trying to lighten her up a bit and showing concern all at the same time without crowding or pushing her.

He's her BFF! When he called her on being "sheriff-y" I may have melted myself...

And the whole time she had her hand on his arm. I don't ship them, but they do give me gooey feelings of a platonic sort. :D
(no subject) - badboy_fangirl on January 14th, 2012 03:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 14th, 2012 03:29 am (UTC) (Expand)
Florencia: DE (Kiss) (3x10)florencia7 on January 13th, 2012 10:16 pm (UTC)
THANK YOU FOR THIS POST ♥ Now I feel like I really watched the episode ^^

The Wickery Bridge. I was like *____________* I have NO idea how they are going to fix SE after this. I just... It was just so awful. Even if I actually was shipping SE this scene would've been a dealbreaker for me. There are some very awful things that can be forgiven - & there are awful things that just go too far, too deep *shakes head*

As for DE, I have this weird conviction that everything will be alright. I don't know how the writers are going to pull this off but I sort of like that Elena is still holding on to Stefan. There would have just been something so predictable about her turning 100% to Damon *just because* Stefan is (being) evil. I just feel the writers have something more original in mind...

& I am totally shocked with myself but... Klaroline!!! ♥ The OTP that befofe this episode I'd have never imagined of shipping lol
Arabian: Damon & Elena08arabian on January 14th, 2012 12:45 am (UTC)
THANK YOU FOR THIS POST ♥ Now I feel like I really watched the episode ^^

Aww, thank you so much. SQUEE!

The Wickery Bridge. I was like *____________* I have NO idea how they are going to fix SE after this.

I'll flat-out say it. I do not want them to. Let them be done. Let the rest of the Stefan/Elena story be them working through the pain, the betrayal, the heartbreak of first love (for Elena), for a second chance at first love (for Stefan -- because that really is what it is in a way), and then segue into the two having a strong, platonic friendship.

I just... It was just so awful. Even if I actually was shipping SE this scene would've been a dealbreaker for me. There are some very awful things that can be forgiven - & there are awful things that just go too far, too deep *shakes head*

Yup, this would have been it for me. And I just pray that they NEVER go anywhere near here with Damon/Elena from this point because it would probably kill them for me and that would break my heart.

As for DE, I have this weird conviction that everything will be alright.

I do have faith; I do.

I don't know how the writers are going to pull this off but I sort of like that Elena is still holding on to Stefan.

Oh, I agree. She is. He's her first real love (Matt was basically 'well, we should, I suppose ...'), and she's been through so much with him, because of him, and he did become (in a way) her guide through navigating the pain of life after her parent's death. And now she has to adjust that this aspect is gone. That she has to find a new guide (hopefully, she'll realize it should be herself). She has to accept that no matter how much she had convinced herself that it would always be Stefan ... well, it won't be. And that is going to take time. I can deal with that, I can wait, and Damon can wait. I just can't deal with her actually going back to Stefan. Not after this. No.

There would have just been something so predictable about her turning 100% to Damon *just because* Stefan is (being) evil. I just feel the writers have something more original in mind...

Yup. When she and Damon are together it will be because of Damon and Elena, and having nothing to do with Stefan.

& I am totally shocked with myself but... Klaroline!!! ♥ The OTP that befofe this episode I'd have never imagined of shipping lol

I'm not there yet, but I am definitely intrigued (and already prefer them to Tyler/Caroline and Matt/Caroline.)
vanimy: D/E (s3)vanimy on January 13th, 2012 11:27 pm (UTC)
I liked this episode (lol when did I ever not like an episode of TVD?) but I don't think it was as strong as the previous ones, it felt more like a transition kind of an episode. Mind you I loved a lot of things in there but I was slightly disappointed with two things :

1- Jeremy's departure. I didn't feel anything. Last week I was crying my eyes out because I didn't want him to leave and because he was compelled to and that scene was so sad but this week, almost nothing. Probably because Jeremy was kind of zombie-like this week. I think they should've made him leave last week, it would've had more of an impact. At least with me.

Re : Bonnie's dislike of the compelling thing, I think she's right of course and OTH I understand Elena's POV too. So it's a conflict that was really well-done.

2- Damon and Elena's kiss aftermath. I loved the beginning of the episode and their two very different reactions. But I was expecting a little more awkwardness when they saw each other again and I really agree with you on that missing scene on the bridge, what a waste of an opportunity *sigh*. I really wanted him to comfort her a little more because I wanted to give her a big hug myself, lol.

Now I got the negative out of the way, I agree with you on like everything else.

-Stefan was a total freak this week and I just loved him, heh. I really love this new version of Stefan and he was really hot this week (yeah, something's wrong with me, I know).

-Stefan/Elena : I'm totally with you on this. How can they ever get back from what he did?? It's just, I completely agree, it's so much worse than what Damon did to her. Stefan really didn't give a damn about her here while Damon force-fed her his blood because he wanted to save her life. I think what Stefan did might have been a little more forgivable if he hadn't done that on that bridge of all places. Because that was totally unnecessary and downright cruel to Elena who had nothing to do with his pissing contest with Klaus (to quote Liz, hehe).

Were I a Stefan/Elena shipper I would be so pissed right now. :o The writers have completely ruined the entire history of this ship, they even went as far as making Stefan almost kill her in the place where he saved her life and met her for the first time.

-Caroline/Tyler. I thought the first scene was a little touching myself but totally agreed on the second one. I was so expecting the bite the whole time he kissed her... it's funny because I liked them last season and I find them utterly boring this season. I think the ship is totally burnt out.

-The little group's creepy birthday party. I think it's one of the very few times I really liked Matt and especially Matt/Elena and Matt/Caroline. I liked the fact Matt rescued Caroline and was such a good friend to Elena. It's one of the rare times where I could picture them as a couple in the past.

-Elena continues to grow so damn much, I really loved her reflection about who she was before and how she felt like she was disappointing her parents. It felt like such a real reaction. TW if she goes back to Stefan like nothing happened, I will throw something at my poor innocent TV.

-Damon/Liz. It was a very nice small scene between them. Everytime I see them onscreen together I think of you and your love for their friendship, heh. ;)

-Damon and Damon/Stefan is so so awesome. I was perplexed at Damon's pride about his brother's actions too but I like your explanation, after all Elena's okay. And i think there's a small part in Damon that misses his old days of plotting evil diabolical plans...

-Damon/Elena. Damon being happy is so made of win as is Alaric being once again stuck between the two of them and sensing something happening between them. I loved the scene between Damon and Elena of course. I think I wanted a little comfort hug though... I don't know how Elena's still standing with everything that happened to her honestly.
vanimyvanimy on January 13th, 2012 11:28 pm (UTC)
-Damon/Alaric and Damon/Stefan are still always made of win.

-And yeah, I actually went back to liking Klaus again in this episode, ugh. Damn writers. I really like what they're doing with him, I really wasn't expecting him to infiltrate the council, such a smart move. And just like you, for the first time I saw the potential of him staying as a regular. Oh and of course there's Klaus/Caroline. There are shippers that date way back, I saw some manips on tumblr a while back and thought they were nuts because that ship just wasn't gonna happen. And I think I'm starting to have yet another ship, heh, this show!! :D

-Re : bad transitions. OMG I noticed that too, WTH?

-I have a bad feeling about Meredith Fell, I think she's a psycho (poor Alaric, is this a curse or what?). Even if she didn't kill that guy whose name I can't remember, the guy's words were still ominous, I think there's something weird going on. That and her casual mention of Damon to Alaric, I think she's planning something against Damon and co...

HEE! Oh, Klaus, you romantic, you! (That's why he so wants to believe in the twuest wuv that ever wuved!)

LOLLL true fact. I'm still surprised Klaus's not gay though, they never showed him having any interest in women before except for Rebekah and their incestuous vibes, I was really starting to think those Klaus/Stefan shippers weren't delusional after all. This character is SO messed up, honestly. You don't find a villain like this in other shows.
(no subject) - arabian on January 14th, 2012 01:07 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - arabian on January 18th, 2012 12:24 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 14th, 2012 01:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - arabian on January 18th, 2012 12:29 am (UTC) (Expand)
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Jude: tvd; damon and elenadanceonstardust on January 14th, 2012 01:48 am (UTC)
Everything in this post is what I think except I did -- Like Carol and Liz -- fall for Klaus' trap and that's because I have a crush on Joseph Morgan anyway hehe. I'm so glad you cleared the air about Stefan and Elena. Someone over tumblr actually had the nerve to say Stefan had the right to do that with Elena because she kissed Damon... -_-'

Of course I thought, first of all, they are broken up then I thought, second of all, that's stupid.

When I saw Klaus come in and talk like that to Caroline, I shipped it instantly. The chemistry is nice as you said, I also thought it was just warm and frothy like a cappuccino. I was actually waiting for a kiss on the forehead or something. It's just nice to see good chemistry from different people once in a while. Like you, I can't see the chemistry with Caroline and Tyler. I don't get all giggly and sighy over their relationship(Like I kind of did with Klaus/Caroline). Especially when he said "I love you." I went on that same mindset. "Yeah, yeah when are you going to bite her?"

I love the Stefan and Klaus moments. I had a few friends that made gif files and the caption said "Oh just fuck already." I don't ship them but it makes me giggle. Damon and Klaus moments were awesome as well.

I'm going to say this again and again. I miss my Elijah. I miss him so much. WHY CAN'T STEFAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I KNOW ELIJAH DISSED THEM SAVING KLAUS BUT I WANT MY MAN BACK.

With Damon/Elena, I squealed so loud when Damon said "No it's right, just right now." I'm sorry, one thing that kind of annoys me about Elena is that she thinks it's WRONG for them kiss just because of Stefan. Of course if I was Elena I would have literally jumped him after the kiss but I guess it's to tease us further and make us wait. Boo. Hiss. Haha.

Edited at 2012-01-14 01:51 am (UTC)
Arabian: Damon & Elena16arabian on January 14th, 2012 02:09 am (UTC)
Heh, I was like 'who the hell is this?' Two seconds later. 'Oh, right, she changed her name! YAY! I can spell it now!' Ahem, moving on ...

Everything in this post is what I think except I did -- Like Carol and Liz -- fall for Klaus' trap and that's because I have a crush on Joseph Morgan anyway hehe.

Hah, well that certainly affects how one views scenes, hee!


I'm so glad you cleared the air about Stefan and Elena. Someone over tumblr actually had the nerve to say Stefan had the right to do that with Elena because she kissed Damon... -_-'

WHATEVER! Dude, Stefan told her he didn't care if her brother died. And, GAH!, so stupid. Or ...

Of course I thought, first of all, they are broken up then I thought, second of all, that's stupid.

This. And as one even REMOTELY equates to the other. OH. MY. GOD!

When I saw Klaus come in and talk like that to Caroline, I shipped it instantly.

You would, LOL! No, seriously, you like Klaus, you like Caroline, you recognize the fail that is Tyler/Caroline and the chemistry is there so yeah, you would. :)

The chemistry is nice as you said, I also thought it was just warm and frothy like a cappuccino.

Ooh, lovely description and I so agree!

Re: Caroline and Tyler. I don't get all giggly and sighy over their relationship.

Exactly. They just really do not have IT! Hell, Stefan/Elena have more chemistry!

Re: Stefan and Klaus moments. I don't ship them but it makes me giggle.

Yeah, I feel the same.

I'm going to say this again and again. I miss my Elijah. I miss him so much. WHY CAN'T STEFAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I KNOW ELIJAH DISSED THEM SAVING KLAUS BUT I WANT MY MAN BACK.

I AM WITH YOU! BRING BACK ELIJAH!!!!!!!!!!!! IT'S KILLING ME!

With Damon/Elena, I squealed so loud when Damon said "No it's right, just right now."

Sigh!

I'm sorry, one thing that kind of annoys me about Elena is that she thinks it's WRONG for them kiss just because of Stefan.

Ah, see, I didn't take it that way. I think the "wrong" was because of all of the complications here. Yes, she and Stefan are through, yes, Stefan has done some horrible things, but there are all of these extenuating circumstances. To jump into anything with anyone -- ESPECIALLY HIS BROTHER -- without getting full closure isn't fair to Stefan (not that I frankly care right now after the WICKERY BRIDGE stunt!), but it also isn't fair to Elena or to Damon. If anything is going to happen between them it's going to be a clean slate. I don't think that Damon was correcting her "wrong," but correcting her way of stating why it wasn't right which was that it's right, just not right now.

*Sigh*
(no subject) - danceonstardust on January 15th, 2012 03:13 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 18th, 2012 01:19 am (UTC) (Expand)
emivemiv on January 14th, 2012 03:50 am (UTC)
YES TO PRETTY MUCH ALL OF THIS!

Yeah, ngl, every time I read your reviews I spend the majority of the time vigorously nodding my head in agreement. It is getting to the point that I need to only comment with the few things I don't agree with (as rare as that occurs).

MY GOD! WICKERY BRIDGE!!

I was kind of shocked that they had him go there, but I am glad they did, in a way. I’m happy they aren’t phoning crazy ripper!Stefan in; he needs to be all this and more. And if Stefan ends up as the seasons main Big Bad (and is ultimately saved by Damon), my life will be complete.

I was annoyed with Klaus' "that kind of love never dies" line because I'm like really, show?

Yeah, I eye-rolled that line pretty hard.

My in-character defense: Honestly, I think Klaus was talking out of his ass a bit there. He is still pissed off that Stefan wouldn't just kill her in The Reckoning because he told him to. It's either that, or Klaus has this old world notion about forever love and assumes Stefan and Elena have that (cause they do put up a nice pretty front for it) and he just doesn't know better. I'm gonna let it slide, cause it's balanced out his line last week to Elena about people she loves, singling out Damon and giving her that look like "You know it. I know it. The milkman knows it."

My out-of-character defense: Some S/E leaning assistant writer wanted that line in there and misguidedly chose Klaus to deliver it, cause everything sounds plausible when said with an English accent. ;D

Also awesome? Klaus. Okay, I give. I give.

YES! *DANCE OF JOY*

Watch out, Klaus fever strikes fast and I've yet to meet anyone who's totally immune (myself included). ;)
Arabian: Damon&Katherine01arabian on January 18th, 2012 01:27 am (UTC)
Finally getting to this! And before I start, can I just tell you how pretty your icon is? I really do think it's beautiful. :)

Yeah, ngl, every time I read your reviews I spend the majority of the time vigorously nodding my head in agreement. It is getting to the point that I need to only comment with the few things I don't agree with (as rare as that occurs).

Yup, that's how I feel when I read your reviews (and I *should* be able to get to yours tonight!)

Re: [MY GOD! WICKERY BRIDGE!!] I was kind of shocked that they had him go there, but I am glad they did, in a way. I’m happy they aren’t phoning crazy ripper!Stefan in; he needs to be all this and more. And if Stefan ends up as the seasons main Big Bad (and is ultimately saved by Damon), my life will be complete.

Hah! That would be awesome, but I still stand by complete inability to ever accept Elena accepting Stefan back as a boyfriend after this. I just -- no.

Re: [Klaus' "that kind of love never dies" line because I'm like really, show?] Yeah, I eye-rolled that line pretty hard.

After the episode ended though, I think we were supposed to.

Re: Your whole defense, I either wasn't clear (likely as I was tired) or you somehow missed what I was saying. After I mentioned my eye-rolling that line, I went onto explain why I think it was included. (After the bridge scene, I think, hope, (pray?) that it was. Using Klaus' belief that Stefan's love for Elena would win out in the end -- even though it's failed spectacularly over and over again, Klaus-y boy -- to show that, well, yeah, maybe it won't. Because that belief was proven wrong (in Klaus' eyes) when he DID have to back down because he believed that, yes, indeedy, Stefan would turn his human "blood source" into a vampire thus negating the usefulness of her blood.) To further clarify, I think that THIS episode was Klaus' wake-up call that no, Elena is NOT the be-all/end-all trigger for Stefan as he apparently believed he was. His saying that line was why he didn't believe that Stefan would actually go there. Stefan's actions disabused him of that notion once and for all.

Re: Awesome Klaus -- YES! *DANCE OF JOY*

I thought you'd be happy about that. Hee!

Watch out, Klaus fever strikes fast and I've yet to meet anyone who's totally immune (myself included). ;)

I may be it, but we'll see.
gidget_84gidget_84 on January 14th, 2012 07:19 pm (UTC)
I wish I had something to add, that someone else hasn't said about the episode lol

But really, it's all been said. Stefan's an ass, moreso than any one ever thought he would be. yes i do like this side of his character, but at the same time it shows he's just as bad a person, vampire, whatever as damon ever was or well, even klaus at this point. So it is good that we are seeing that equality, finally. He's off the pedestal now, thank the writers. I just hope they keep him off of it. Of course, he can't be this horrific forever, so the show has to mellow him down a bit. And he definitely needs to get off his klaus revenge quest. Or even just tone it down? lol I get his reasoning, i mean klaus put everyone in danger and made him flip the switch off or whatever but seriously..the best way to get back at klaus is flaunting the idea that he's even going to try to get rid of him? Stefan come on, you need to be stealthy lol

Yes i'm also on the klaus/caroline train now too, even if he is just manipulating her. I liked tyler/caroline too, but it doesn't bother me if their not together, not invested that much. I think caroline, at this point, can be shipped with anyone lol

And the elena and matt scenes were great; he was a part of her past, so of course he should be with her to let that go at the bridge. I'd really like to see some flashbacks of that elena, what she used to be like. I thought she was more of a party girl, but i'm not really too sure.
Arabian: Damon & Elena08arabian on January 18th, 2012 01:34 am (UTC)
I wish I had something to add, that someone else hasn't said about the episode lol

Heh, that's why even though I don't get to watch it until 11, I make sure I get my thoughts out ASAP!

Stefan's an ass, moreso than any one ever thought he would be.

This. :)

yes i do like this side of his character, but at the same time it shows he's just as bad a person, vampire, whatever as damon ever was or well, even klaus at this point.

I still think that Klaus takes the cake, but I actually don't think DAMON is as bad. I can't see Damon ever using such personal information against someone to hurt them to THAT degree. Nothing we've seen indicates he would ever do that, and certainly not so cold-bloodedly!

I just hope they keep him off of it. Of course, he can't be this horrific forever, so the show has to mellow him down a bit.

I think and having been meaning to write a post about it that JP/KW have decided that this show is the journey of the Salvatore brothers and how they both find a middle ground to live out their immortality. Damon was too far on the dark side, Stefan too on the bright side, both pretending to be something they're not. And Elena is the catalyst for both to embark upon that journey.

And he definitely needs to get off his klaus revenge quest. Or even just tone it down? lol

If Klaus wants Stefan off his back, he needs to severely threaten Damon, maybe kidnap him and threaten to kill him if Stefan doesn't return his family. Stefan would back down for sure then!

Yes i'm also on the klaus/caroline train now too,

I'm not quite ready to say I'm on the train, but I'm definitely at the station! LOL!

I liked tyler/caroline too, but it doesn't bother me if their not together, not invested that much.

Yeah, I'm one of the few who other than a brief moment or two never really liked them romantically at all.

I think caroline, at this point, can be shipped with anyone lol

I actually don't feel that way. I've only truly shipped her with Stefan, and I'm open to the idea of her and Klaus, but I didn't ship her with Damon, Matt or Tyler.

And the elena and matt scenes were great; he was a part of her past, so of course he should be with her to let that go at the bridge.

I so agree.

I'd really like to see some flashbacks of that elena, what she used to be like.

Nina with less make-up can definitely still play a much younger Elena, but I'm not so sure about the other actors, hmmmm...

I thought she was more of a party girl, but i'm not really too sure.

Well, the reasons she and her parents were on the bridge is because she had disobeyed them to go and head to a party, and she told Damon (in 1.11) that she used to be fun (implying more like the drunk Elena at Bree's with him), so we've definitely gotten that vibe, yeah.
Heather-Annlinsell_farm on January 15th, 2012 02:40 am (UTC)
OMFG NO NO NO - THEY CANNOT POSSIBLY ENTERTAIN THE RIDICULOUS NOTION THAT ELENA COULD GO BACK TO STEFAN!!! There is just no bloody way that is even remotely an option after all he has done!!!

ITA with what you said about Wickery Bridge. My reaction was almost identical, but you express it so much better ;).

Look, I know that Stefan loves Elena. I do not question that. I just don't think that he loves her so fully, so completely, so magically, so 'love never dies'-ly. If he did, he could NOT do what he did to her, what he's been doing to her. I know that part of his action was to make her hate him, but he'd already been doing a good enough job, so no, it doesn't justify it. It just does not justify it. Nothing justifies what he did. All of Damon's horrible actions -- and they were horrible -- came from a place of love (as Elena said). All of Stefan's horrible actions now are coming from a place of hate (for Klaus, because of what he's lost). But what he's lost is all because of him. Because he didn't trust in Elena or her love enough to believe that she would, could forgive him. So, I'm not feeling for him at all in this scenario. Not a single bit. I feel for Elena, but I want her to get over it, get over him because he doesn't deserve her awesome.

WORD. That is all.

I'll admit to becoming a Klaus fan during this episode. I might even be joining team Klaus/Caroline. To be clear, this does NOT change my thinking in any way, shape, or form that Elijah should be playing a much bigger part in this Season of Originals!!!


And I was just all AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IKR??? I was doing the exact same thing and thinking how utterly perfect it was that he said that. I'm totally with you about all the DE stuff. I love that we got their reactions first thing in the episode, but they didn't leave it there. How great that they were back on that same porch again with so many direct callbacks!!! GOD, I LOVE THIS SHOW!!!!
I really like your edited section. It makes perfect sense to me that Damon was trying to lighten her a bit and get her to smile but then immediately going back to the heavier, sincere concern for her. I just adored Elena's expression as she said that he couldn't kiss her. Her confusion was clear and it seemed that she was so close to the point where she just gave in and would take comfort in Damon but wouldn't allow herself to as that would be unfair to him. *sigh*

I loved the Damon/Liz interaction as well - that's been missing for awhile, so it's great when it comes back. :D

I can't wait to see The Ties That Bind. Thursday can't come soon enough.
Arabian: Damon & Elena17arabian on January 18th, 2012 01:45 am (UTC)
OMFG NO NO NO - THEY CANNOT POSSIBLY ENTERTAIN THE RIDICULOUS NOTION THAT ELENA COULD GO BACK TO STEFAN!!! There is just no bloody way that is even remotely an option after all he has done!!!

Yeah. I will say that after I mentioned my thought on this to my sister (a very casual viewer who watches it once and then she's done) after that scene, she said 'no, they aren't going there again, not after that.' So, hopefully, we ARE right. Because, I hate to say this, but yeah, I'm not sure that I could continue watching the show if they did that. It would be the principle of the matter because I'm weird like that. (I stopped watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer after they paired up Buffy and Spike because it was so wholly, horribly OCC for Buffy and I just couldn't. In my mind, this is MUCH worse.)

ITA with what you said about Wickery Bridge. My reaction was almost identical, but you express it so much better ;).

Just yeah. I don't see how anyone can see it differently, but I have no doubt that there are people out there who do so. :shakes head: (Oh, and thank you. :)

IKR??? I was doing the exact same thing and thinking how utterly perfect it was that he said that. I'm totally with you about all the DE stuff. I love that we got their reactions first thing in the episode, but they didn't leave it there. How great that they were back on that same porch again with so many direct callbacks!!! GOD, I LOVE THIS SHOW!!!!

Just, yes, this, all of this so very, very, very much! :D

I really like your edited section. It makes perfect sense to me that Damon was trying to lighten her a bit and get her to smile but then immediately going back to the heavier, sincere concern for her.

Yup, I'm just surprised I didn't get it on the first go-round! He loves her so much. Awwwww......

I just adored Elena's expression as she said that he couldn't kiss her. Her confusion was clear and it seemed that she was so close to the point where she just gave in and would take comfort in Damon but wouldn't allow herself to as that would be unfair to him. *sigh*

Yup, that's how I saw it. And you couldn't reall tell because of the close-up, but as she seemed to strengthen her resolve, you could see at the bottom of the shot that she pulled his hands down and away. Like she needed to remove his touch or she'd fall into his arms.

I loved the Damon/Liz interaction as well - that's been missing for awhile, so it's great when it comes back. :D

I know, right?! Love them soooooooo much! :D
jamdouradojamdourado on January 15th, 2012 04:08 am (UTC)
I usually don't comment on recaps but I got to say that I agree with pretty much everything you said.

The motive of Stefan force feeding blood was worse than Damon's, I know they were both wrong, but Stefan planned that, the Wickery bridge, he know what that represents to Elena.

I loved bad Stefan, this guy is such a bamf though I'm afraid what they will do with him when he gets his humanity back, I don't want the old Stefan back, I don't think he will be able to be that guy again.

The Caroline funeral was beautiful, it's good to see that even with the supernatural and all problems, they try to be there for their friends.

And let me tell I love Steroline tooo, and I don't like Tyler, I thought he would be better as hybrid now, but I don't like it. And when I saw Klaus/Caroline scene I was like, oh man if we don't get Steroline I want Klaroline.

And the porch scene, OMG, I love how Damon understand Stefan and Elena, and tried to show that Stefan kind of had a good reason and in the end she was safe. Then he wanted to know if she is alright. And what Elena said, it's like she was talking more to herself that to him and he says it is right but not now, he knows it's not the right time, this ship is so beautiful.

I liked that Bonnie didn't tell Jer the truth about the compulsion, but I hope she doesn't let it go, as much as I understand Elena's motive, she couldn't make that choice.

The Matt/Elena scene was levely, he knew old Elena, he knows now that things changed, he assures her it's OK not to be the same.

I loved this episode, it didn't have much action, but it represented a new path for this show.
Arabian: Damon & Elena09arabian on January 18th, 2012 01:54 am (UTC)
I usually don't comment on recaps but I got to say that I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Well, I'm glad that you commented here. I love hearing from new people, yay! :)

The motive of Stefan force feeding blood was worse than Damon's, I know they were both wrong, but Stefan planned that, the Wickery bridge, he know what that represents to Elena.

Exactly, Damon's was done in the heat of the moment and was spurred on by his love for her and desperation to keep her from being buried six feet under. Stefan's was cold-blooded and calculated, spurred on by his desire to enact revenge upon Klaus.

I loved bad Stefan, this guy is such a bamf though I'm afraid what they will do with him when he gets his humanity back, I don't want the old Stefan back, I don't think he will be able to be that guy again.

I love him too, and what I think (hope) is going to happen is that JP/KW have decided that this show is the journey of the Salvatore brothers and how they both find a middle ground to live out their immortality. Damon was too far on the dark side, Stefan too on the bright side, both pretending to be something they're not. And Elena is the catalyst for both to embark upon that journey.

The Caroline funeral was beautiful, it's good to see that even with the supernatural and all problems, they try to be there for their friends.

Yes, that is one of the things that I love about this show. They generally don't forget/ignore the "human" moments (for lack of a better word).

And let me tell I love Steroline tooo, and I don't like Tyler, I thought he would be better as hybrid now, but I don't like it. And when I saw Klaus/Caroline scene I was like, oh man if we don't get Steroline I want Klaroline.

I'm stil tentative, but I certainly prefer Klaus over any other option (aside from my beloved Stefan/Caroline) at this point because I LOVED that scene between them. But I'm not ready to jump right on board because I don't know how much of my love was based on the beautiful writing and acting and how much was based on their chemistry. So we'll see....

what Elena said, it's like she was talking more to herself that to him and he says it is right but not now, he knows it's not the right time

I agree; it was like she had to convince herself that they couldn't go there again. Yup.

this ship is so beautiful.

*sigh* Aren't they!?

I liked that Bonnie didn't tell Jer the truth about the compulsion, but I hope she doesn't let it go, as much as I understand Elena's motive, she couldn't make that choice.

I don't know, I could see it going either way. She can't let it go and thus doesn't. Or, because she's done similar (making the "wrong" choice for the "right" reasons), she does let it go because she can't truly judge.

I loved this episode, it didn't have much action, but it represented a new path for this show.

Beautifully put. :) (And again, welcome to my journal.)
Olga: TVD | D/E | 3x02 | Please!dreamingahead on January 17th, 2012 09:11 pm (UTC)
Very enjoyable and thorough review as always. Couldn't have worded it better!

Your Damon + porch scene thoughts have helped me see his reaction from a more pleasant angle which I overlooked initially while I was busy being an Elena stan. He really did show genuine concern as well as tried to lighten the situation up a little to make Elena crack a smile. It seemed a bit too dark humour-y for my liking at that point, but come to think of it... he wasn't actually there, was he; he didn't saw the actual terror on Elena's face, nor her breakdown. She must have pretty much composed herself to her "I can take anything; I'm Elena Gilbert" state by the time he got to that bridge to pick her up, and he probably only got the facts from Elena (whatever she chose to share), not how it made her FEEL. It was a story with a favourable outcome to him, which is why the gravity of the situation differed for us and for Damon when all was said and done. I'd like to believe his reaction would have somewhat differed if he bore witness to the entire scene.

How can Elena go back to Stefan now? How?

I won't be able to buy it, either, not after the bridge scene. I don't see how she will even be able to look him in the eye after that, let alone get back together with him.

I have had some time to mull over my problem with Elena's reaction, and I think I managed to put my finger on why exactly it rubbed me the wrong way so much. I understand that Elena justified Stefan because she was afraid to believe the worst in him, but come on. When Damon terrorised people (incl. Elena) in the past as a way of dealing with his dark place, or as a means to an end, he's horrible, the worst and has no excuse, but when Stefan's doing that for both these reasons, it's comprehensible because he's... in a dark place & it's a means to an end? Ngl, I'm a bit tired of the double standards when it comes to Stefan, and I don't want them to sweep this under the rug in the long run just b/c they got some kind of a result out of it, you know?

It hit me in the bridge scene why. I could be wrong, but it looked like they used the same make-up and hair styling on Nina Dobrev as they did in the Pilot. It was the look of the Elena we first saw paired with the harder Elena that she's become.

I believe you're right! Nice catch, it did have a very Pilot-y feel to it.
Arabian: Damon & Elena05arabian on January 18th, 2012 02:06 am (UTC)
Very enjoyable and thorough review as always. Couldn't have worded it better!

Thank you muchly, and let me say you did a fine job yourself at your lj. :)

Your Damon + porch scene thoughts have helped me see his reaction from a more pleasant angle which I overlooked initially while I was busy being an Elena stan.

As a Damon-stan who needs to take a step back sometime, I totally see where you're coming from. And I'm glad you brought it up because I didn't even quite catch that until you made me take a closer look. :)

It seemed a bit too dark humour-y for my liking at that point, but come to think of it... he wasn't actually there, was he; he didn't saw the actual terror on Elena's face, nor her breakdown.

That's very true.

She must have pretty much composed herself to her "I can take anything; I'm Elena Gilbert" state by the time he got to that bridge to pick her up, and he probably only got the facts from Elena (whatever she chose to share), not how it made her FEEL.

Yup, that's very Elena-y, and what I expected.

It was a story with a favourable outcome to him, which is why the gravity of the situation differed for us and for Damon when all was said and done. I'd like to believe his reaction would have somewhat differed if he bore witness to the entire scene.

Right, that's what I said in the review (re: the favorable outcome), and I think that if he had witnessed it, he would have been very, very different in how he was with her.

[Elena going back to Stefan? HOW?] I won't be able to buy it, either, not after the bridge scene. I don't see how she will even be able to look him in the eye after that, let alone get back together with him.

Exactly. I will say that after I mentioned my thought on this to my sister (a very casual viewer who watches it once and then she's done) after that scene, she said 'no, they aren't going there again, not after that.' So, hopefully, we ARE right. Because, I hate to say this, but yeah, I'm not sure that I could continue watching the show if they did that. It would be the principle of the matter because I'm weird like that.

I understand that Elena justified Stefan because she was afraid to believe the worst in him, but come on. When Damon terrorised people (incl. Elena) in the past as a way of dealing with his dark place, or as a means to an end, he's horrible, the worst and has no excuse, but when Stefan's doing that for both these reasons, it's comprehensible because he's... in a dark place & it's a means to an end? Ngl, I'm a bit tired of the double standards when it comes to Stefan, and I don't want them to sweep this under the rug in the long run just b/c they got some kind of a result out of it, you know?

The double-standard DOES bother me, and if we never get any acknowledgement from the peanut gallery, I will be VERY peeved. However, I'm okay with it coming from Elena because starting at a place of being so bad and then moving towards better is very different from starting at a place of good and then going bad. First impressions and all that. Whenever Stefan does something awful, how can she not try and justify the fact that she loves (d?) this guy by remembering all of the goodness she knows he's capable of? It's the defense mechanism, I think, that most humans would use. Now, the others works that way to a slight degree, but there NEEDS to be something from them that Damon is on THEIR side, that Damon is one of the good guys now and they need to stop treating him with disdain, disgust, etc. That doesn't really apply to Elena because she's always tried to treat him better and as I mentioned last week, I ADORED that she genuinely thanked him for everything SO MUCH!

I believe you're right! Nice catch, it did have a very Pilot-y feel to it.

It really, really did!
Azmiri Sultana Mridul: pic#115293165mridul777 on January 19th, 2012 01:08 pm (UTC)
I love how you managed to write all the points that I felt was wrong between Stefan/Elena and their relationship in this episode. I liked this episode...although I had to almost win a fight to watch it and I was pretty much beaten during watching, but it was differently nice.
After the previous episode, which left us on cloud nine, this was a buffer,but it had it's own kinda kicks as well.
I get it...Stefan's inherent need to become the bigger villain and needless to say I Loved him and was fist pumping for him while he was Oh-So-BadAss throughout the episode. But here's my problem, to use Elena to fulfill his necessity is bad, horrifying even...but to prove his villain-y and his badness and how far gone he is and I don't know act like the hero who intentionally bowed down for who he have become, pulling the "Wickery Bride" stunt was low... even for Stefan. He insulted Elena and her feelings. I think to accomplish his goal he not only hurt her mentally and somewhat physically and was willing to go through more.... he never even respected her.

I mean he KNEW everything that is needed to know between Elena's history and this bridge, hell he was the one who saved her. Even Damon knows about it and while in this episode Damon was loitering around the model bridge in the Lockwood estate and said something about this bridge, I sorta had a feeling that something was going to go very wrong involving it. It hurt me because I love Stefan and I thought he would be better than this....

Anywho I don't think getting Stefan/Elena back together is why their love was re-dug in this episode. The way I saw it was that after everything that happened with Stefan and Stefan/Elena the hopes of them reconciling will be even more difficult because even Klaus was proved wrong about the emotions shared between these 2. Klaus who believed because of Stefan's actions and even said that "The only thing strong than your craving for blood is your love for this one girl... he was also proven wrong. It was in a way established that being with Elena is not in Stefan's agenda now, and it might be incredible Bella Swan like for Elena still remains tethered to him. Which I believe won't be true (even if she ends up with Damon or not) because the basic character of ALL the women in here is that they are strong and empowered in their own way, and they are BAD-ASS!

I loved the fact that for Liz, it was "screw everyone..I'm with Damon!". I was smiling and Yay-ing all the while. Even after Klaus tried to "daughter-save" his way into Liz's heart the next morning at the break of a new problem, Liz's ally is Damon. The friendships in my show rules. Speaking of.... Alaric and Damon's new couple fighting is getting funnier each day. In fact they remind me of Season 1 Damon/Elena bickering yet working together all the time

Damon is Loaded. I never had a doubt. I mean c'mon! You DO NOT have a house like THAT and ARE NOT a sucker for brands, if you're not loaded.

Klaus impressed me in this episode. His faux concern regarding Tyler while talking with Carol (Oh Carol!), the way he behaved with Tyler, and then with Damon (I bet Damon felt a little jealous because earlier it used to be him who fed ALL the ladies old and young out of his palm).... these were all so Kathryn Merteuil like (character played by SMG in the movie Cruel Intentions)

Arabian: Damon & Elena14arabian on January 19th, 2012 10:53 pm (UTC)
Obviously I agree with all the Stefan/Elena, Stefan and Damon/Liz stuff. :D

Speaking of.... Alaric and Damon's new couple fighting is getting funnier each day.

I think I'm the one who has an issue with it. I just think that Ric is being a jerk now without showing any affection. :(

these were all so Kathryn Merteuil like (character played by SMG in the movie Cruel Intentions)

Who's actually based on a much cooler character from Les Liaisons Dangereuses that was turned into two very good movies, Dangerous Liasons and Valmont. I prefer DL, but I think that Klaus is more like Annette Bening's take on Merteuil in Valmont than either Glenn Close's in DL or SMG's in CI.
(no subject) - mridul777 on January 20th, 2012 07:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on January 20th, 2012 11:27 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Azmiri Sultana Mridul: pic#115295688mridul777 on January 19th, 2012 01:08 pm (UTC)
The Klaus/Caroline scene..I loved it. Though it felt like "where did that come from?" at the beginning, I mean the sudden intimacy seemed a little "wha?", but you're right they do have chemistry. Till Stefan/Caroline happens I think they'll be far far more entertaining than Tyler/Caroline. Because honestly I seriously was getting bored. When Tyler denied to bite Caroline and Klaus smiled and backed off I exclaimed "Yeah right dude..you're' definitely going to bite her" and in the cemetery, when Tyler and Caroline started making out, I was chanting "Any minute now..here comes the bite".

I guess part of Klaus's fascination with Caroline came from the fact that he can somehow relate with her. Both have father who dislikes them for who they are, both were somehow tortured, both shared similar problems and dilemmas PLUS Tyler's adamant decision to not bite Caroline even when he's sired and telling that on Klaus's face when Klaus can very well end him right there and then (but which he obviously won't, that much we know), I guess it intrigued Klaus towards Caroline, as to what makes her so special that his puppet refuses to dance on his tune (which betrays normal nature) because of her. This much we all know by now that Klaus is twisted beyond measure and while his sole intention may be to increase his follower mass by becoming sweet to Liz and Caroline, these factors might be what's piquing his interest towards this girl as well. Plus Caroline IS SPECIAL and beautiful so....

Dr. Meredith Fell is beyond shady and creepy (reminds me of nanny "Carrie" from OTH, one of Torrey's character). Let's just keep it at that... I will not make any assumptions, I want to see what happens.

I had no problem with the writer's or how they are portraying Elena here... but yeah I thought that the decision she took for Jeremy was screwed up and not right (yeah it was wrong to some extent), but I understand it, I don't respect it.. but I get it. Desperation and love and the fact that she herself is just another 18 year old trying to save his little brother and taking a drastic decision caused her to go to these lengths... So basically I loved loved loved Bonnie's reaction and response regarding this matter... more proof as to how strong and "I ain't taking shit from no one" these characters... especially the core female's of this show are... Plus Caroline's "I am delicate" was sooo very cute.. Yes she is delicate. People needs to see that and treat her like the girl or the woman she is.... That's why Klaus's charming gift stole my heart as well. His simple gesture of the gift was like how a gentleman treats a beautiful lady. CUTE!

Finally the porch scene. Damon being proud of Stefan for the stunt he pulled and the eat is accomplished was nice to see, but I agree if something really happened to Elena, things would have gone much far worse than it was now. I had a different reaction than Damon did, I got what he tried to convey, but I agree with Elena, Stefan's method sucked big time.

When he lifted her chin up and slowly caressed her cheek, and Elena sort of melted and blurted out the pent up frustration all the while after the kiss with "You can't kiss me again".... it was like she was pleading him not to subject her to another of those weak moment where she won't be able to stop herself completely in to him. Because she knows it too well that NOW she won't be able to stop herself, if he proceeds. And finally I just loved Damon's answer.... One line explained everything

"It's right.. just not right now"
Arabian: Damon07arabian on January 19th, 2012 11:08 pm (UTC)
Though it felt like "where did that come from?" at the beginning, I mean the sudden intimacy seemed a little "wha?"

I was okay with it because Klaus is ALWAYS very "intimate" with people. He gets close, he lowers his voice, tries to make a connection (remember after he got Elena's blood in the sacrifice, he told her thank you with sincerity). And she is similar to Rebekah in looks and personality (to a degree), and he did just lose Rebekah (again), so I bought that well enough. Plus, it helped him establish a connection with one of those in the inner circle too.

Till Stefan/Caroline happens I think they'll be far far more entertaining than Tyler/Caroline. Because honestly I seriously was getting bored. When Tyler denied to bite Caroline and Klaus smiled and backed off I exclaimed "Yeah right dude..you're' definitely going to bite her" and in the cemetery, when Tyler and Caroline started making out, I was chanting "Any minute now..here comes the bite".

Exactly.

I guess it intrigued Klaus towards Caroline

See, I don't think he was especially intrigued with Caroline (other than what I mentioned above), it was just another chess piece being moved. Klaus was able to get an in with Liz (even if she hated doing so) and now with someone in Damon's group.

I understand [Elena's decision], I don't respect it.. but I get it.

I actually do respect it very much. Elena went against what she knew was right. She made a terrible decision in taking Jeremy's choice away, but she made that decision despite how difficult it was because she loves him so much. It's like what Damon said in 2.18. Elena may have hated him for the choices he made to keep her safe, but at least she was save. I respect that. It was the same thing with Elena here. Jeremy may hate her for the choices she makes to keep him safe, but at least he'll be safe. His living is more important than him loving her.

I agree if something really happened to Elena, things would have gone much far worse than it was now. I had a different reaction than Damon did, I got what he tried to convey, but I agree with Elena, Stefan's method sucked big time.

Oh, I think Damon thought Stefan's method sucked, but since Elena was "okay," he was able to see the positive that came out of it.

When he lifted her chin up and slowly caressed her cheek, and Elena sort of melted and blurted out the pent up frustration all the while after the kiss with "You can't kiss me again".... it was like she was pleading him not to subject her to another of those weak moment where she won't be able to stop herself completely in to him. Because she knows it too well that NOW she won't be able to stop herself, if he proceeds.

Yup, exactly. You described it perfectly.

And finally I just loved Damon's answer.... One line explained everything. "It's right.. just not right now."

Sigh, I know. I love my couple so much. :)

Edited at 2012-01-19 11:49 pm (UTC)
dante_kentdante_kent on January 19th, 2012 10:55 pm (UTC)
It's typical of me and my ever-catching-up ways that I finally comment on your recap the day a new episode airs, but alas...I am here.

I find this super interesting:

Using Klaus' belief that Stefan's love for Elena would win out in the end -- even though it's failed spectacularly over and over again, Klaus-y boy -- to show that, well, yeah, maybe it won't.

I did think the 'true love' line was weirdly out of place, even though I do think the show believes it to be true. But it's a fascinating idea that maybe it was there to show that sometimes love DOESN'T win, and that regardless of Stefan's feelings that's not what's calling the shots right now. It's very like TVD to take common stereotypes and subvert them, so this was a very good catch.

Yes, Wickery Bridge was horrifying, but to me this just signified even more how much Stefan's switch doesn't exist. There is no way he could be so pointed in his torment if he really didn't care. That's not excusing him at all - I'm just always looking for proof that the switch doesn't work, and this just convinced me more.

And it was so clever, so very clever to have HER bite him in getting her cure. I kept waiting for him to bite into his wrist, but no, no, no, he wanted *her* to make the choice, to choose to accept his aid ... just as Carol did, just as Liz did. Brilliant.

I really like this, for a lot of reasons (entirely separate from my weird instant obsession with Klaroline). It's another case of Klaus being ridiculously efficient even in his pathetic little lost boy super villain-ness. Because he's protected now. Caroline can't blame him for any of it, because he can ALWAYS say she had a choice. He didn't even tempt her (other than with odd seduction, but that's beside the point). She got to make the call, and she has to deal with the consequences. Which is also sort of beautiful, because what I loved about their interaction was that he gave her a choice when no one else ever had. But as poignant as that was, it was also strategic. Klaus can be very smart sometimes.

I'm pretty psyched to have a normal murder in Mystic Falls. A) because it's hilarious (TVD has shifted my moral compass, whatever). And B) because I'm super into any exploration about the relative monstrousness of the people in a world with literal monsters (isn't that the point of monster shows? To discover that half the time the humans are just as bad?), and it could be fascinating to see how the team reacts to a normal human murderer when they regularly look the other way at supernatural murders all the time. Is there any justification that could absolve Meredith (or whoever did it), since we clearly forgive our vampires for some of their transgressions?

I'll try to be more prompt on the next recap (*she says sheepishly*), though I am going out of town for a few days tomorrow. This seriously inconveniences my fandom time. Alas. HAPPY TVD DAY!!!
Arabian: Caroline02arabian on January 19th, 2012 11:56 pm (UTC)
It's typical of me and my ever-catching-up ways that I finally comment on your recap the day a new episode airs, but alas...I am here.

Glad to hear from you, and no worries. :) It generally takes me 3-6 days to get to responses.

I did think the 'true love' line was weirdly out of place, even though I do think the show believes it to be true.

See, I don't think they do anymore. I used to, but they've done so much to subvert this supposed true love. I do believe that Stefan loves her, that's not in question, but it's not this great love that it's been painted to be ... by anyone. It's just been way too incredibly pointed this season -- with hints going back to early mid-season 01 -- to say otherwise in my book.

Yes, Wickery Bridge was horrifying, but to me this just signified even more how much Stefan's switch doesn't exist. There is no way he could be so pointed in his torment if he really didn't care. That's not excusing him at all - I'm just always looking for proof that the switch doesn't work, and this just convinced me more.

Well, the switch works, it just STOPS working around their vampire age. That's what Rose told Damon. About 100-200 years -- in that range -- it stops working, and we saw that happening with Damon in season 02, and now we see the same with Stefan.

entirely separate from my weird instant obsession with Klaroline).

I am really, really curious as to how they're going to play them tonight. It will probably make the call whether I jump on ship or just have them as an acceptable substitute while waiting for my Stefan/Caroline.

It's another case of Klaus being ridiculously efficient even in his pathetic little lost boy super villain-ness. Because he's protected now. Caroline can't blame him for any of it, because he can ALWAYS say she had a choice. He didn't even tempt her (other than with odd seduction, but that's beside the point). She got to make the call, and she has to deal with the consequences. Which is also sort of beautiful, because what I loved about their interaction was that he gave her a choice when no one else ever had. But as poignant as that was, it was also strategic. Klaus can be very smart sometimes.

That's what I LOVED so much about this. It really was them showing us (after a season and a half of them mostly "telling" us) just why Klaus is considered so Machiavellian evil.

I'm pretty psyched to have a normal murder in Mystic Falls. A) because it's hilarious (TVD has shifted my moral compass, whatever).

Whatever. It's fiction. I proudly stan for Hannibal Lecter because he's a fictional character, but Jeffrey Dahmer made my skin crawl.

And B) because I'm super into any exploration about the relative monstrousness of the people in a world with literal monsters (isn't that the point of monster shows? To discover that half the time the humans are just as bad?), and it could be fascinating to see how the team reacts to a normal human murderer when they regularly look the other way at supernatural murders all the time. Is there any justification that could absolve Meredith (or whoever did it), since we clearly forgive our vampires for some of their transgressions?

Oh, man, oh man, I honestly didn't even think of that coming up -- I was just thinking it was more about the "mystery of Meredith!" But this? This adds a whole new layer that I can't wait to see explore, because you're right, I can't see them NOT exploring it.

Oh, and (C) That Liz brought Damon into it ... even though it's not supernatural and he's not part of the force, bwahahahaha! That will never not crack me up. Hah!

I'll try to be more prompt on the next recap (*she says sheepishly*), though I am going out of town for a few days tomorrow.

No problem. I normally get these up between 1 am and 3 am.

This seriously inconveniences my fandom time.

Alas, I don't get all until work until 11 pm, so I have to wait until then to watch the show. It drives me crazy from 8 until I sit down at 11:10. :( Still, this ...

HAPPY TVD DAY!!!

WHEEE!!!!