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08 October 2011 @ 12:46 pm
3.04 - My (eep!) Caroline Issues  
Damn, I really hate not loving Caroline wholeheartedly. It's like I felt after "Klaus," where I was all down on what a temper-tantrum-throwing idiot Damon was. I hate when I don't AHHHHHH! my faves on this show, but ah well, it's just gonna happen sometimes. And this episode it was Caroline's turn. For the record, my shit-Stefan episode is "The Dinner Party." I actually don't think I have one for Elena; Alaric's would be this episode too but as much as I love my bb, Alaric, I don't love him nearly as much as I do Caroline. Therefore, I must explain why I'm not Rah! Team Caroline for once. Bottom-line is that while I love Caroline to bits, I feel that she was wrong in her attitude towards Damon in this episode.

Note: This was originally posted in a lovely Caroline-defense post by youcallitwinter. If you're Rah!Team Caroline for this episode, you'd probably enjoy reading it. I chose to remove my post there because it was her Rah!Team Caroline cheer and I didn't feel that disagreeing so strongly in that type of post was cool. So I'm posting it here.

One of the contentions that youcallitwinter and other Rah!Team Caroline members have made is that Caroline's attitude toward Damon was justified because of his treatment of her when they were dating; especially when what takes into account this show's timeline and how it was less than a year ago that he treated her thusly. Fair enough. However, the problem (in my opinion) of using this as a reason as to why it makes sense that it would still be a driving force in Caroline's attitude is that all of the stuff that happened between then and now was much more recent. And that recent stuff mostly involves saving her life. Not once, not twice, not three times, but FOUR TIMES OVER. Yes, Caroline Forbes would be dead *dead* FOUR TIMES OVER were it not for Damon Salvatore.

As for that whole aspect, many have argued that Damon only saved her life to score points with Elena. To which I say? So? And, nuh uh, there was more to it than that! I mean, to say that his saving her life doesn't hold that much weight because he did it for Elena just doesn't fly with me. Who cares why he did it? He saved her life. Caroline is alive because Damon saved her life. Four times. Period. Sure, he did it two of those times to get brownie points and/or make things up with Elena, but he still saved her life. And there is definitely more to it than just scoring points with Elena.

Let's look at those four times --

1) "The Return" -- He gave her vampire blood to heal her from internal injuries. He didn't do this to get brownie points with Elena, he didn't do this to make things up with Elena. He did it to save Elena's friend because he cares about Elena and losing her friend would hurt Elena. He also did it to save *his* friend's daughter because losing Caroline would devastate Liz. Yeah, Damon saved Caroline's life because he didn't want her mother or her friend to feel that loss. How is that in any way, shape or form selfish? It's not. At all. No way. He didn't do it to gain anything from Elena or Liz. Sure, he asked Bonnie if it would make things square with him, but she said no ... and he did it anyway. And not just for Elena (so that she wouldn't suffer any more which is what someone who cares would do), but for his friend, Caroline's mother.

2) "Daddy Issues" -- He helped saved her life when the werewolves kidnapped her. Stefan and Tyler were already on the way; Stefan didn't call Damon, he just happened to be there with Elena. Did Damon do it for Elena? In part, yeah, but it was also about Caroline. I say this because (a) we never heard Elena specifically say 'go save Caroline for me!' She said 'don't kill Tyler for me." And (b) Damon flat-out told her don't think I'll do things just because you're the one asking. Being Damon, if he really didn't want to save Caroline, just to prove a point to Elena, he wouldn't have done it. But he did. And again, regardless of his reasons, he put his life on the line to go and help save Caroline.

3) "The Last Day" -- He rescued Caroline to stop the ritual from happening so that Elena wouldn't be turned, and would forgive him. Fair enough, totally selfish, right? Except, it wasn't totally selfish. He had no intention of rescuing Tyler. He didn't care. He just wanted the ritual not to happen. And as far as he knew it wouldn't because he'd killed Klaus' witch already. Klaus needed a witch, a vampire and a werewolf. So, as far as Damon knew, the sacrifice couldn't happen now because he'd taken out the witch. Yet, he still went and rescued Caroline because the witch dead or not, Klaus would come after his vampire and werewolf, so Damon saved Caroline. And then had no intention in rescuing Tyler. He only did so BECAUSE CAROLINE SAID SHE WOULDN'T LEAVE WITHOUT HIM. Damon risked HIS LIFE by letting a werewolf free on a full moon JUST TO SAVE CAROLINE. The sacrifice had been halted with dead-witch as far as he was concerned. He didn't have to let Caroline go, in fact, he could have kept her there since her ultimatum was save Tyler too or I'm staying here, never mind that Tyler being free put his life in jeopardy. He still chose to rescue Caroline.

4) "The Last Day" -- A rabid Tyler was going for Caroline. He was going to bite Caroline. Which would kill Caroline. With no time to think about how good he would look in Elena's eyes for doing so, Damon without thought, just doing it, took the bite for Caroline. On instinct, he took a deadly werewolf bite that was meant for Caroline. Again, how is that in any way, shape or form selfish? It's not. At all. No way.

So, yeah, Damon saved Caroline's life four times and all four of those times (with DI being the least) had mitigating circumstances that made it perfectly clear it was not just about getting brownie points with Elena. And, again, this all happened MUCH MORE recently than their relationship when Damon was a full-on dick, didn't have his humanity switch turned on. He has since then, time and time and time again, shown how much good he is capable of. Caroline also knows that Damon cares a gazillion times more for Elena than he ever did for Caroline during that period. Even emotionally, she knows it's not the same. Now, if she had been specific re: her relationship with him, I would have been fine with her commentary towards Elena, but it was the pervading OOH! DAMON = BAD! that bothered me.

And, frankly, I find it hard to believe that Caroline would still hold such a huge grudge about that knowing that --

(a) Damon had his humanity switch off, and was operating under a different set of rules, something that she can understand now being a vampire herself.
(b) Has forgiven Matt time and time again despite the fact that he emotionally wrecks her apart ALL THE TIME.
(c) Forgave Tyler for hesitating when she was locked in a cage after being tortured for hours, and helped to set Elena (and Stefan up).

She's a forgiver. And Damon has done a SHITLOAD to make up for that early treatment. Look, I know many viewers are pissed that other than a hallway throw-down and a "you suck" Caroline and Damon have never even remotely dealt with how he treated her. I get that, I'm actually one of those viewers, but to cheer on Caroline being so mean, and kicking Damon's ass NOW in the third season because of something that happened at the beginning of the first season just because it wasn't dealt with adequately by the show isn't fair to Damon. It would be like Elena suddenly getting furious with Stefan for not telling her that she looked like Katherine. That's something that drives me, as an anti-Stefan/Elena viewer, crazy that it was just glossed over. But to bring it up now when so much more (good and bad) has happened wouldn't make narrative sense.

Narrative sense? Ding, ding, ding. That's the key here. Writer Brian Young really seemed off the ball in the narrative flow. There wasn't an emotional connect with what's been happening with these characters to how he had them (namely Caroline, Alaric, Rebekah and Stefan) act in this episode. Unfortunately, Caroline -- with an issue going back the farthest and unremarked upon that was driven by this failure of a strong narrative flow -- came out smelling the least like a rose.

There has been argument that Caroline was coming at this from the point of view as Elena's friend, wanting to protect her. I could totally be behind that, except for how she broached it. Had she made any sort of disclaimer such as "I know he's better, or he's not the same guy from when he first came to town ... BUT he's still DAMON!" I would have been fine, but it was the unmitigated vibe of he's the evul! that really bothered me. Be Elena's friend, point out the Damon-ness of Damon, but still acknowledge that he's not this evil, sick monster he was when they first met him. Caroline actually warned Elena herself of the vampire-ness of it all back in 2.04 (even if it was from prodding from Katherine, it was all true). Yet, that was delivered in a note of 'well, vampires are vampires,' thus absolving Stefan -- because Stefan kept Elena in the dark about the reality of vampirism. But now that it's Damon, suddenly it's not vampirism, it's OH, DAMON IS BAD! And that is what bugged me. Be a good friend, fine, but don't lay it all on Damon's feet as if he's the big bad who hasn't been working his ass off for however long to save ALL of their lives on a fairly regular basis. He's not all bad, and THAT is how Caroline was portraying him.

The bottom-line is that, for me, it all comes down to the phrasing. Had she just acknowledged that he's not the same jerk he was with her, I would have been fine, totally cool with her pointing out "BUT HE'S STILL DAMON!" Because, yeah, he's still Damon. But she didn't. All of her comments (pre-that final scene) read as if Damon is evil, evil, evil, evil. All bad, bad dude, no, no, no, no. No acknowledgement that he's not. That he has done SO MUCH for all of them. NOTHING from her at all. Her line "doing bad things to good people," and the follow-up, "I'm the honestly police," were the worst examples of that. She was stating, as it came across what she believes, an absolute, honest fact. Damon is bad. Period.

And he is not.

That is why that as much as I love Caroline, as much as she's my girl, I believe that her attitude about Damon -- a guy who, yes, treated her horribly when they first met, but has since then saved her life four times, saved her mother's life (were it not for Damon, Lexi would have killed the Sheriff), bonded with her mother and has become her only friend, tried to smooth things over in their relationship and make Liz accept Caroline as her daughter even as a vampire, rescued Tyler, helped rescue Matt when Tyler was all were-wolfy, and has worked his ass off to save this town time and time again, including all the people she holds dear -- is just not fair. Yes, I really do blame the writer here. I didn't think it rang true with Caroline. I didn't think it was in character. But it's what we got, and her attitude about him, considering everything that has happened since Damon came to town (especially the last four months or so), was just wrong.
 
 
 
x5valex5vale on October 8th, 2011 05:15 pm (UTC)
I can only say I totally agree with you.

Caroline really annoyed me with her judgy attitude and you stated so well why she did.

Thanks for this post.
Arabian: Damon07arabian on October 8th, 2011 06:10 pm (UTC)
No problem. It just had to be said; I love my Caroline, but I didn't love her attitude towards Damon in this episode. :(
wickedrumwickedrum on October 8th, 2011 05:30 pm (UTC)
Caroline must still have some unconscious resentment towards Damon for what happened before she was a vampire. It doesn't make sense otherwise, cause he certainly didn't deserve her judgement especially as if he almost died saving her.
Arabian: Ian & Nina14arabian on October 8th, 2011 06:11 pm (UTC)
Right, she must, BUT it didn't play that way and after all that has happened, that he's done since then, if it were at play -- it SHOULD have been addressed.
(no subject) - wickedrum on October 8th, 2011 06:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 8th, 2011 06:32 pm (UTC) (Expand)
youcallitwinteryoucallitwinter on October 8th, 2011 05:50 pm (UTC)
Haha, I think I'll have the same problem you did on my post! It's your post, I won't disagree here much!

Rah!Team Damon vs. Rah!Team Caroline? Awesome. They'd have such a good cheer off, these two :D (Although you'd have way more people supporting your stance!)

i honestly didn't think her 'good things to bad people' quote was a big deal. Like, I didn't even think about it when it happened. Damon keeps saying things like that about people, and it never really matters. Not to mention Damon would've probably LOL-ed if he'd heard the remark.

I never thought Damon selfishly saved her though, I'm sure he grudgingly feels she's one of 'his' people and he would've saved her regardless of Elena (althought I don't consider that first one 'saving her', he was just trying to heal her faster). And the second time, he thought it was just negotiation, didn't know he'd be in danger. Third time he was actually trying to get back in Elena's good books and fourth he got bitten which was awesome for the storyline it generated (and also a clear plot device and was everyone's behavior this episode). I don't think she needs to believe she's indebted to him or that he's a nice guy because he saved her life. And as for that last part; like I said about Jeremy and Damon's death! I think it's AWESOME that he did save her, I just think it didn't change their relationship much. She saved him too, and that didn't change their relationship either.

I do get your 'he is evil' vibe thing, she was nasty about him, I suppose it didn't bother me personally because I LOVE IT WHEN HE'S EVIL. I WANT HIM TO BE EVIL. Even if everyone hates him for it on the show, it just makes him so much more interesting. He'll make up for this, he makes up for everything eventually. And Caroline maybe personally thinks he's bad for Elena, which she has a right to think, I suppose, she's not saying 'stay away from him', she's saying 'don't gloss his actions, and if you like him, know what he's capable of'.

All I got from Caroline is a 'Damon is not Stefan' feeling which Elena definitely needed to hear. The thing is, all characters get characterized according to Damon's subjectivity; Alaric was mean about/to him, Caroline is mean about him, Elena doesn't understand him and tries to 'change' him, Stefan gets all the praise all the time, and I'm okay with that, except I wouldn't find him half as interesting if he wasn't misjudged most times, lol.

THE TIMELINE OF THIS SHOW IS OFF TOTALLY DD: And I agree, this episode came from NOWHERE? Everyone's emotions were heightened for no particular reason.
Azmiri Sultana Mridulmridul777 on October 8th, 2011 06:09 pm (UTC)
THE TIMELINE OF THIS SHOW IS OFF TOTALLY DD: And I agree, this episode came from NOWHERE? Everyone's emotions were heightened for no particular reason.


That's what I felt too....I felt like I woke up after hibernating, and thus missing out an entire half season or at least 2-3 episodes.

All I got from Caroline is a 'Damon is not Stefan' feeling which Elena definitely needed to hear.

True. That's why I personally loved what her words at the end of the episode with Elena. Elena needed to hear them. I was glad it her because she's the one who hits point blank. And Elena needs some shock therapy to yank her off of her denial right now.

I'm sure he grudgingly feels she's one of 'his' people and he would've saved her regardless of Elena (although I don't consider that first one 'saving her', he was just trying to heal her faster).

I agree with the his people thing. He does count her as part of his gang, and also that they are on okay terms.
And about the healing stuff, no he wasn't just healing her. Because if you remember, Liz said, Caroline was fading and her condition was critical. And it was evident that she might gonna die, so Bonnie suggested the blood thingy. She might not have survived the accident.
(no subject) - youcallitwinter on October 8th, 2011 06:15 pm (UTC) (Expand)
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(no subject) - arabian on October 11th, 2011 12:10 am (UTC) (Expand)
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Azmiri Sultana Mridulmridul777 on October 8th, 2011 05:55 pm (UTC)
Pt 1
Well....I've got issues...heavy issues. Not with what you wrote, but with Caroline's action this episode.

I loved this girl so so so so so so so soooo damned much. I get that she was trying to be a good friend, I get that she was trying to warn off Elena that Damon can't be replaced as Stefan, in his absence. I get that she was trying to save Elena from what she thought was more heartbreak. I get it all.

BUT

Why now??? Why EXACTLY now?? What changed??? I mean last I checked what changed was Damon's attitude towards her and everybody, and that was towards the good side. It's not the first time Elena is being closer to Damon, she was like that before the Jeremy Neck Snapping incident (maybe the intensity of closeness was a little less, but definite closeness was there), and even after the neck snapping she and Damon as been closer. Why is everybody SUDDENLY aware of the fact that Elena and Damon are getting closer than healthy level, and she needs to be aware of what a bad person Damon is?

Alaric has been the only person who had front row seats to all or maybe most Delena interactions, from saving Stefan to Duke road trips, He's been there, seen most of it. Why is he acting out suddenly now. AND WHY SPECIFICALLY ON DAMON ONLY? WHAT DID HE DO DIFFERENTLY NOW???

Like Carina McKenzie said in her review, about Alaric's demeanor towards Damon: "While I appreciate his attempt at being the protective big brother that Elena so, so desperately needs, someone needs to send him the Season 1 and 2 DVD box sets. Damon didn't "take a beat with Elena" when she was madly in love with his little brother, or when she hated him for killing her little brother, or when he had a girlfriend of his own. Why would he start now?"

SOURCE

I love this girl...I LOVE CAROLINE. I LOVE HER TO BITS. She's ahh..... She's one of THE MOST KICK ASS female character in this show. She's strong, she's confident, fiercely protective, has the biggest and warmest heart, and is the best non-judging friend one can ever imagine. I LOVE HER. PERIOD.

But her attitude towards Damon was totally uncalled for. Why's only Damon suddenly BAD. Like you said, if she remembers the bad parts of season 1, then what happened the good parts of season 2 and now.
Damon tried to cozy up to her and tried to mend things between her mom and her in S02 E05 Kill or be Killed. Damon helped her mom, and didn't kill her....Not because of Elena,
AND defended Caroline in front of her mom when Liz said her daughter was dead......Not because of Elena.
In 2x07 Masquerade, he's helped her, even though in very little parts, but did so...... Again, that wasn't because of Elena.
Arabian: Damon06arabian on October 8th, 2011 06:28 pm (UTC)
Re: Pt 1
Uh, yeah, pretty much just ... I agree!
Azmiri Sultana Mridulmridul777 on October 8th, 2011 05:56 pm (UTC)
Pt 2
I just....I uh....I don't have any problems in the way Caroline wanted to warn Elena off of Damon and how he is always going to retain his attitude, coz it was true, BUT saying that no matter what happens, DAMON. IS. EVIL.

Please honey. I love you, but why are you suddenly reverting to your season 1 episode 1 and 2 self.

Damon is not Evil. Neither is Stefan. No one is the good or the bad brother.

If Alaric found Damon so repulsive and unfit to be close to Elena, then WHY is/was HE friends with him, or tolerated him ALL THIS LONG....WHAT SUDDENLY CHANGED....Did I miss a whole half season? Or at least 2-3 episodes??

This thing of everybody trying to point out Damon's mistakes and trying to mend him, change him, mold him all of a sudden and literally emotional thrashing him for not agreeing was weird.
Okay, try and change him, try to make him realize that it isn't Hot or Cocky being the d**K ALL the time. He should at least try to behave sometimes. And more et ceteras. BUT doing everything in a span of few scenes AND going completely against him, shoving him. ALL THIS done by the mature, decent, good, sensible and nice, understanding people of Mystic Falls, felt a little gnawing. It's not like they have been talking about his matter with him for sometime now, AND in this episode the people suddenly snapped and acted.

NO, that was Damon. And he will act this way. NO I AM NOT SAYING HIS ACTIONS ARE JUSTIFIED. CAUSE THEY AREN'T. But he was behaving exactly like himself. He's and impulsive d**k. So by now, they are perfectly aware of that. And since they are understanding and sensible they should have known that they have to deal with him a little differently, rather than just charging him, or shoving him.

I just think that, being an impulsive person that Damon is, he has been very pliant and submissive over the course of season 2 and now. He has a long road ahead, but he has bent backwards and tried so much. And EVERYBODY who is ANYBODY would want even a teeny bit of appreciation after doing or trying hard. Appreciating him would have given him a little hope or cause to try hard to be a better person or mend him rough edges.
But unfortunately, he is not getting at all. He keeps gets slapped on his face. Whenever he does something good or tries to cozy up, a bucket of cold water is splashed on his body reminding him that "Remember who you were at season 1...yeah you were the BAD DUDE, so maintain your limits, don't even forget it for a second". But he is still doing a good job of holding his stance and not revolting into SUPER EVIL DAMON from season 1. I am not acting like a defensive fan girl, every other character's actions are just heavily depressing me. Suddenly everyone is out to do a vivisection of Damon's character, prove that he is and always will be wrong, evil and massacre him.

*sigh*

I just hope, people stops this 911 Damon call. Summon him when danger is imminent and forget him immediately afterwards. Don't even bother to throw a simple thank you, but please, please be my guest to assassinate his whole being, the next chance you get.....Ugh!
Arabian: Damon13arabian on October 8th, 2011 06:28 pm (UTC)
Re: Pt 2
And again, yeah, pretty much just ... I agree!
Mitten: vampiresugarsyringe on October 8th, 2011 06:08 pm (UTC)
That episode bugged me in so many ways! The portrayal of Damon was strange and some characters said the weirdest things to make it fit (like, as you said, Caroline treating him like he's so baaaaaad).
The one sentence that annoyed me the most though came from Bill's mouth: "you are not self-destructives enough to kill the sheriff's ex-husband"
Argh! What does being self/destructive would have to do with anying? He could have said "crazy" or even "stupid" but self- destructive really? Does Bill know everything about Damon's life? It's the writer that was trying to make a statement there, it was the writer who was going all "look, Damon is so self-destructive he's doing stupid sh!t :D" in a less than subtle way.
This episode was not bad but as far as character developmemt was involved, it receives a big zero! (sorry for the typos, not typing this with a keyboard)
Arabian: Damon&Liz01arabian on October 8th, 2011 06:14 pm (UTC)
I agree mostly, but that line made total sense. If Damon were to kill the SHERIFF's ex-husband he would be basically setting himself up for a manhunt (well, as far as Bill knows, I'm sure he has no idea that Liz and Damon are besties). So I didn't have a problem with that word at all.

This episode was not bad but as far as character developmemt was involved, it receives a big zero!

THIS!
vamplover85vamplover85 on October 8th, 2011 06:16 pm (UTC)
everything was off on this episode I don't the writer knew his characters at all. It was just all so wrong and about Caroline, your right. He saved her plenty of times, and sure a little resentment for what he did to her before hand but seriously after the whole affair with her dad?? They scratched that off like nothing ever happened, and the whole Alaric thing what was up with that?? It's like everyone snapped and had enough. And Stefan trying to be the bad guy but not succeeding at all, he still feels and his emotions are still on. The moment I loved was when they were in the kitchen at the beginning before everyone got up in their business, which they need to figure out on there own but it was like total opposite of what happened in the last episode...........
Arabian: Katherine05arabian on October 8th, 2011 06:32 pm (UTC)
But this writer DOES know the characters, that's what is so odd. He co-wrote "Family Ties" (the first truly good episode, in my book"), "History Repeating," "Unpleasantville," "Isobel" (a fantastic one), "The Last Day." And his solo writing efforts are "A Few Good Men," "Rose," "Brave New World" and "Crying Wolf" He also did the story for "Let the Right One In," but Julie Plec wrote the script. So, yeah, I don't know what happened here.

It just was not a strong episode.
(no subject) - vamplover85 on October 8th, 2011 06:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 8th, 2011 06:57 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vamplover85 on October 8th, 2011 07:20 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 8th, 2011 07:26 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vamplover85 on October 8th, 2011 07:33 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vamplover85 on October 8th, 2011 07:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 11th, 2011 01:12 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - vamplover85 on October 11th, 2011 01:29 am (UTC) (Expand)
ancholiaancholia on October 8th, 2011 06:23 pm (UTC)
You just eloquently said what I'm thinking about this episode. I still can't manage with it, I'm actually angry with all the shit, nearly out of character thing that happened. Caroline's reaction and anti-Damon campaign was out of character to me.
It would have passed better if the writing had been good but as you noticed it was just horrible. Brian Young didn't used to be a writer on The Event? Because let me tell that show was NOT good (the plot and the writing).
Arabian: Caroline05arabian on October 8th, 2011 06:30 pm (UTC)
Brian Young is actually a long-time writer for this show. His co-writing efforts have produced some great episodes actually: "Family Ties" (the first truly good episode, in my book"), "History Repeating," "Unpleasantville," "Isobel" (a fantastic one), "The Last Day."

It's his solo writing efforts that mostly are less than fantastic (in my opinion). Other than "A Few Good Men," and "Rose" -- which I didn't think was as great as many others did, but it was still very good, his solo stuff hasn't been my favorite: "Brave New World" and "Crying Wolf" were his other two solo efforts. He also did the story for "Let the Right One In," but Julie Plec wrote the script.

But honestly, even AFGM, "Rose," and BNW were pretty darn good. I didn't think the writing was horrible, it just, yeah, missed a narrative flow. I don't know.
(no subject) - ancholia on October 8th, 2011 06:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 8th, 2011 06:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
comeundone_82: Hurt scenecomeundone_82 on October 8th, 2011 07:10 pm (UTC)
I also have issues with Caroline´s and Alaric´s behavior the past episode, and while I find Alaric´s attitude completely OOC. I maybe have an explanation for the way Caroline was written.
Maybe she acted the way she did to make a point and remind everyone, Elena and the viewer what a bad person Damon can be as well. (No personal opinion of mine just saying that was the message she/ the ep sent). She presented that outsider view - how people see Damon who don´t care much about him. And that make sthe important point so much clearer. The point is that Elena defended Damon and never really agreed with those statements. Hence the important message was no matter how the world sees Damon and regardless of what he has done Elena keeps defending him and even deals with a growing romantic attraction there. That was the point IMO. That final convo with Caroline takes place after the neck snap and argument they have! So none of Damon´s actions that ep changed her mind. That makes all the difference in the world and basically answers the lingering question, does Damon has to be Stefan 2.0 to be worthy of Elena - clearly he doesn´t. It doesn´t matter for Elena that much anymore. She was more concerend what others would think of him if he continues doing these things. This is growth for Elena/ the DE plot that so far always failed at this point. So maybe both Caroline and Alaric were simple plot devices this ep.
Arabian: Damon07arabian on October 11th, 2011 12:22 am (UTC)
You know your whole bit about the Damon/Elena aspect of this episode (and a few other points that I've read elsewhere, picked up myself, but never really touched upon because of the mess of everything else) really frustrates the hell out of me.

Why? Because you are so damn right.

Really, it's just a shame. Because of the off-characterization so prevalent in this episode, what was meant to show strong movement in the D/E story was overlooked, because we all got bogged down in the emotional beats being so terribly missed. Still, that strong, positive movement actually REALLY was there. This, I believe, was meant to be a fairly SIGNIFICANT beat in the Damon/Elena arc, but it was lost for most viewers because of the poor handling of the material. *Sigh*

Edited at 2011-10-11 12:23 am (UTC)
(Anonymous) on October 8th, 2011 07:36 pm (UTC)
I agree completely with your arguments. I get that Caroline has genuine reasons for disliking Damon. And I would fully support her if she called Damon out regarding what he did to her specifically. But her relationship with Damon is not the same as Damon's relationship with Elena. Everyone with eyes can see Damon is crazy in love with Elena and would never intentionally hurt her. He has busted his ass trying to protect Elena for months now and was ready to die for her many times over. If Caroline had said "Damon was abusive to me, so be careful.." or in other words if she had framed her concern for Elena in terms of what happened to her at Damon's hands, I would have understood it better. But it just did not come across that way to me. It was just a general all encompassing "Damon is bad" vibe with no qualifier, as you pointed out. That just disappointed me in both Caroline and Alaric. I suppose what irks is that every one of them is quick to point out the bad in Damon and he has done much that is reprehensible, but not one of them acknowledges his good actions, like at all. Saying he's incapable of changing, when they all can see clearly he's NOT the unfeeling/uncaring vampire they first met in season 1 is so unfair, and not what I expected from Caroline.

And the double standards when it comes to the brothers makes me mad too. I mean, they all know by now what Stefan is up to. But when Caroline said the necklace burnt Elena because she wasn't cooking with Stefan? Yeah, that put me off. So Caroline and Alaric are fine with Elena being with the guy who killed Andie, who rips people apart and puts them back together (Alaric even witnessed this with his own eyes), but her being with Damon is a problem? Yeah, I just don't get it.



Arabian: Damon04arabian on October 11th, 2011 12:27 am (UTC)
I get that Caroline has genuine reasons for disliking Damon. And I would fully support her if she called Damon out regarding what he did to her specifically. But her relationship with Damon is not the same as Damon's relationship with Elena.

Yes, this exactly. And it they had allowed Caroline's, yes!, natural concern due to her history with Damon come up, that point could have been raised, showing a natural narrative flow.

Everyone with eyes can see Damon is crazy in love with Elena and would never intentionally hurt her.

Yes. How can they all go on and on as if Damon is so evil/horrible/etc. for Elena when there is literally NOTHING he wouldn't do for her, no line he wouldn't cross for her.

If Caroline had said "Damon was abusive to me, so be careful.." or in other words if she had framed her concern for Elena in terms of what happened to her at Damon's hands, I would have understood it better. But it just did not come across that way to me. It was just a general all encompassing "Damon is bad" vibe with no qualifier

Obviously, I agree. Yes, this so much.

but not one of them acknowledges his good actions, like at all

I know, grr. Well, I am wondering (and hoping) if the heavy-handedness of all of this was deliberate -- which still doesn't excuse the sloppiness on display here -- because next week, they're all falling apart in various fights (Caroline/Tyler against Rebekah; Elena against Stefan/Klaus) and Damon gets back into town -- as I assume he will once Katherine gives him the information about the necklace -- and he does save the day. And THIS TIME it will be acknowledged and they will finally wise up a bit to ALL that Damon does do for them. If so, then I'll take (if a tad unhappily) the bald execution of this week if it gives us that reward.

Re: Damon vs. Stefan -- I swear when Stefan comes back into town and they see the darkness there, and what he's doing, there better be some fricking wake-up calls! Grrr!
Silvia Kundera: TVD-Annasilviakundera on October 8th, 2011 07:46 pm (UTC)
I don't even try to understand the complicated relationship that Damon & Caroline have, and the relationship some viewers have with them, but I do agree that (regardless if people can argue about what's 'right' or not) within the narrative Caroline had made peace with their past. I had observed that they had grown into a more sibling-like bitching-at-each-other relationship. So the attitude towards him in 3x4 felt a little OOC.

Another factor to this, along with the other things you mentioned, is that Caroline has now (a) killed people, (b) compelled people after feeding on them, (c) specifically compelled Matt to forget that she feed on him and then later compelled him to forget she was a vampire & then kept dating him anyway while he was under that compulsion. I'm not saying that any/all of these things are the same as what's happened to her, that's not the point. I'm just saying that she as a vampire now likely views Damon's actions in an entirely different way, likely understands them on an emotional & physical level, and has now knowingly walked some (less extreme) non-con/dub-con lines herself. (give her a few decades, I find it very believable that she might get herself a boyfriend that she compells to not care that she's a vampire & to tell no one.)

I mean, if we look at the text... how comfortable has Caroline been shown to be in Damon's house, with Damon's things, in Damon's room. As early as 2x5 she was easily coming into the house to share Damon's blood supply (after she's chomped down on Matt, a nurse, and killed a student with a side of deputies). How can we see her in 3x1 going to Damon's room when upset to hide out for a bit, and then easily pressing a bottle to his chest as they pass and warning him about cake... and then try to tell me that she just dislikes him and deep resentment blah blah yeah she's just been waiting to kick his ass. The narratives don't mix.

Everyone can read the text differently, but I think there should be a distiction between a person's own issues with Damon and what Caroline appears to be actually feeling herself as a character (due to both her specific personality and current history). Since mid-S2 I haven't been waiting around for Caroline to go beating him up. And I frankly find it bizarre that some people do, because that's so OOC to me.

so yeah, some weird writing there. This episode was just a little off all around, imo.
Arabian: Damon06arabian on October 8th, 2011 08:32 pm (UTC)
OMG! I want to marry this post and have it's little babies, it's so utterly perfect.

I think there should be a distiction between a person's own issues with Damon and what Caroline appears to be actually feeling herself as a character

There is not enough THIS in the world to describe how much I agree with this statement.
(no subject) - waltzmatildah on October 9th, 2011 12:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
archangel_bloodarchangel_blood on October 8th, 2011 08:01 pm (UTC)
Completely agree with everything you said.

In fact, this inconsistent and unexplained behaviour seemed to be contagious. The whole episode left me dumbfounded. It was like some of the characters just went back in time, to varying stages of S1&S2. For Caroline, it seemed like it was the first day of her vamp life and she had just remembered Damon's terrible treatment of her from the beginning of the first season. In turn, Damon was suddenly so volatile, unstable and basically looking for trouble that I had mid season one and S2 premiere flashbacks. But why? When did this happen? And don't even get me started on Alaric and Stefan.

Meh. Let's just hope next episode is set back in present day time.
Arabian: Damon10arabian on October 8th, 2011 08:34 pm (UTC)
Well, Damon actually wasn't out of character. He seemed to be in our place, responding to all the OOC crazy around him as best he could. I mean, where the hell were all these people coming from, he seemed to be thinking/responding to, you know?
(no subject) - archangel_blood on October 8th, 2011 08:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 8th, 2011 09:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - waltzmatildah on October 9th, 2011 12:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 11th, 2011 12:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
wiccabuffy: TVD - Damon says its ok to be a psychowiccabuffy on October 8th, 2011 08:12 pm (UTC)
I don't agree with the people cheering on Caroline, although the fight was well-done.... but I *do* see why Caroline would stand up for her father. Like you said, she is forgiving so she forgives the horrible things her father has done to her. She tries so hard to be liked by everyone (her family especially), and that storyline just broke my heart because of how true it can be in today's society.

Which is why I also like Alaric and how he is slipping away from Damon's friendship. He's basically slinking back to season one, where he had lost the woman he loved (Isobel) to a vampire and blamed Damon. Now he lost the woman he loved (Jenna) to a vampire and has no one to blame. He's lonely, he's drunk, he's broken. He's clinging to taking care of Elena and Jeremy as the last bit of family he has left and out of anyone other than Elena, he knows Damon best. So he blames Damon, not because it's rational, but because he frankly doesn't know what else to do. Stefan isn't around to blame. Klaus isn't around to blame... he blames the only vampire around because he's transferring his pain of losing his love AGAIN (and is probably re-living everything with Isobel/Damon all over again), so he joins the Council.

Finally... to the people who are being weird about Damon, all you have to do is point out his line - "I can't be who she wants me to be." He's TRYING. He's going to fail, because he's not good at it, but he tries. (Part of why I love him!)

If any vampire is being BAD right now, it's Stefan who is a mass-murderer/psychotic killer (which I think is fascinating for his character!)
Arabian: Damon01arabian on October 8th, 2011 08:33 pm (UTC)
I completely agree with all you say, I just wish so much that it had been clearly in the script, re: Ric. But yeah, you are totally right. :)
vanimy: Mad!Loisvanimy on October 8th, 2011 08:44 pm (UTC)
THIS. I've been loving Caroline for a long time (especially since Season 2) but it's the first time I've really disliked her this much.

Her attitude towards Damon really rubbed me off the wrong way. And besides I can't get over how she easily and quickly she forgave her father and kicked Damon's ass for him after what he's done to her. Save his life? Sure, he's her dad, but absolve him and be the one to more or less apologize? Hell to the no. Thinking Damon's the only evil guy in town now? Ugh, no. Irked me to no end.
Arabian: Katherine05arabian on October 11th, 2011 12:28 am (UTC)
THIS. I've been loving Caroline for a long time (especially since Season 2) but it's the first time I've really disliked her this much.

Well, I didn't dislike her; I just wasn't very happy with her verbal choices tonight, LOL!

I can't get over how she easily and quickly she forgave her father and kicked Damon's ass for him after what he's done to her. Save his life? Sure, he's her dad, but absolve him and be the one to more or less apologize? Hell to the no.

But that's totally in character for Caroline. She forgives easily and completely. (Which, ironically, is why it was a bit OOC for her to be so "Damon's evil, yo!")
gidget_84gidget_84 on October 9th, 2011 02:47 am (UTC)
Definitely agree re: Carolines treatment of Damon in this episode.
The only good I saw come out of anything she said, was her talk she had with Elena, where Elena basically admits to her feelings for him. Elena said "can't", instead of "doesn't", which is just her guilt showing for the feelings she does have for him. And this was after the whole, temporarily killing Alaric business, I think. Elena didn't seem as upset with Damon at all for that, which is good in a way, as opposed to it being her brother before. I think that showed at least a little progression in what she thinks about him, she didn't automatically agree with Caroline bad-mouthing him, like I think she would have in the past.

Otherwise, I was just annoyed throughout this whole episode. Characterization was completely off as you said, and there was no follow-through from the last episode with most of the characters. It's like they keep flip-flopping with what they want Damon to be, bad vs good-ish. Like, oh hey he's being nice for once, for like 3 episodes, so automatically we need to REMIND everyone about how much of an asshole he really is. That way Stefan can still be seen as the "good" brother, when we all know that he's really not.

Sorry, this is my own personal rant: I HATE the whole "bad" vampire vs. "good" vampire crap. They've done this with true blood and buffy in the past, and it just annoys me to death. They're BOTH vampires, therefore, they are both technically monsters, they've killed people, they are both BAD. There is no erasing the bad parts from their past, just because they've decided to not eat people anymore, or whatever. Ugh....okay rant over, lol

Here's to hoping next week's episode is back to it's awesome self :)
Arabian: Katherine05arabian on October 11th, 2011 12:33 am (UTC)
Yeah, the good of the Elena/Caroline stuff in that final scene was pretty dang awesome when putting aside all that was not awesome about this episode.

I think that showed at least a little progression in what she thinks about him, she didn't automatically agree with Caroline bad-mouthing him, like I think she would have in the past.

Absolutely. You know your whole bit about the Damon/Elena aspect of this episode (and a few other points that I've read elsewhere, picked up myself, but never really touched upon because of the mess of everything else) really frustrates the hell out of me. Because of the off-characterization so prevalent in this episode, what was meant to show strong movement in the D/E story was overlooked, because we all got bogged down in the emotional beats being so terribly missed.

Still, that strong, positive movement actually REALLY was there. This, I believe, was meant to be a fairly SIGNIFICANT beat in the Damon/Elena arc, but it was lost for most viewers because of the poor handling of the material. *Sigh*

I HATE the whole "bad" vampire vs. "good" vampire crap.

The funny thing is that Ian Somerhalder is always going on and on about how that's not the case, etc., etc., but that is actually what we're getting told at this point. I really do hope it's coming to a head. I am wondering (and hoping) if the heavy-handedness of all of this was deliberate -- which still doesn't excuse the sloppiness on display here -- because next week, they're all falling apart in various fights (Caroline/Tyler against Rebekah; Elena against Stefan/Klaus) and Damon gets back into town -- as I assume he will once Katherine gives him the information about the necklace -- and he does save the day. And THIS TIME it will be acknowledged and they will finally wise up a bit to ALL that Damon does do for them. If so, then I'll take (if a tad unhappily) the bald execution of this week if it gives us that reward.

And, furthermore, that the others will see that Stefan can be just as bad, and actually WORSE, than Damon.

Here's hoping anyway.
sillyforwordssillyforwords on October 9th, 2011 04:18 am (UTC)
I had typed a long post but I seemed to have lost it. I don't feel like redoing the whole thing again, so I'll just hit the highlights

1. I agree with everything you said. I adore Caroline but she was OOC in this episode.

2. To add to what you said, it irked me when she said the necklace burned Elena because she wasn't cooking with Stefan..whaaa??? So she's okay with Elena being with the guy who killed Andie, who rips innocent people apart and puts them back together like puzzle pieces, yet Damon is a problem?

3. Her argument that people can never change so Damon will never change..did she somehow miss the entire season 2? Anybody with eyes can see that Damon is no longer the unfeeling vampire they met in the beginning of season 1.

4. Oh, and if she is so persuaded people can't change, I hope that applies to ripper Stefan as well? She or Alaric better not be okay with Elena getting back with him, even if Stefan becomes "good" again. Or the double standard will kill me.
Arabian: Damon05arabian on October 11th, 2011 12:41 am (UTC)
I had typed a long post but I seemed to have lost it. I don't feel like redoing the whole thing again, so I'll just hit the highlights

Aww, I'm sorry. HATE when that happens. :(

1. I agree with everything you said. I adore Caroline but she was OOC in this episode.

Sigh. Yeah.

2. To add to what you said, it irked me when she said the necklace burned Elena because she wasn't cooking with Stefan..whaaa??? So she's okay with Elena being with the guy who killed Andie, who rips innocent people apart and puts them back together like puzzle pieces, yet Damon is a problem?

I don't think anyone else knows he killed Andie; in fact, I kinda wonder if anyone but Damon, Elena and Alaric know just exactly what Stefan's been up to this summer.

3. Her argument that people can never change so Damon will never change..did she somehow miss the entire season 2? Anybody with eyes can see that Damon is no longer the unfeeling vampire they met in the beginning of season 1.

This. Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis!!! I'm hoping that the heavy-handedness of all of this was deliberate -- which still doesn't excuse the sloppiness on display here -- because next week, they're all falling apart in various fights (Caroline/Tyler against Rebekah; Elena against Stefan/Klaus) and Damon gets back into town -- as I assume he will once Katherine gives him the information about the necklace -- and he does save the day. And THIS TIME it will be acknowledged and they will finally wise up a bit to ALL that Damon does do for them. If so, then I'll take (if a tad unhappily) the bald execution of this week if it gives us that reward.

4. Oh, and if she is so persuaded people can't change, I hope that applies to ripper Stefan as well? She or Alaric better not be okay with Elena getting back with him, even if Stefan becomes "good" again. Or the double standard will kill me.

Again, I wonder if any of them know. And if they don't, what kind of wake-up call will THEY experience regarding the "good" and "bad" brother then? Well, we'll see how Alaric is with Stefan when he comes back to the "good" side. Hmmm. If he is cool with it, I kinda want Damon to do a whole 'you're dead to me' dude and mean it emotionally, cuz screw that patootie!

Edited at 2011-10-11 12:46 am (UTC)
Diana: Vampire Diaries - Forbes Toughbutterfly on October 9th, 2011 05:23 am (UTC)
Yeah, this is how I put it in another journal - the way Caroline reacted to Damon tracked with her human relationship with him, not her vampire one. Thus, it felt very jarring, because a lot has happened since Caroline was human and she's behaved differently toward him.

Might be an artifact of her dad being around - that often makes people regress, especially if the relationship is unhealthy (as someone else said to me - it's easier to see why Caroline put up with how Matt treated her once we saw how her dad treats her).

(but, again, that's a Watsonian way of looking at things, rather than a Doylist way, which is that the writer messed up)

Edited at 2011-10-09 05:24 am (UTC)
Arabian: Caroline06arabian on October 11th, 2011 12:44 am (UTC)
Yeah, this is how I put it in another journal - the way Caroline reacted to Damon tracked with her human relationship with him, not her vampire one. Thus, it felt very jarring, because a lot has happened since Caroline was human and she's behaved differently toward him.

And you know how much I loved that, I've basically been using it everywhere in response (crediting you, of course!).

Might be an artifact of her dad being around - that often makes people regress, especially if the relationship is unhealthy (as someone else said to me - it's easier to see why Caroline put up with how Matt treated her once we saw how her dad treats her).

Ooh, very good point. Very, very good point. Especially the Matt-Daddy angle. Uh huh.

And I said to you on the phone, I'm hoping that the heavy-handedness of all of this was deliberate -- which still doesn't excuse the sloppiness on display here -- because next week, they're all falling apart in various fights (Caroline/Tyler against Rebekah; Elena against Stefan/Klaus) and Damon gets back into town -- as I assume he will once Katherine gives him the information about the necklace -- and he does save the day. And THIS TIME it will be acknowledged and they will finally wise up a bit to ALL that Damon does do for them. If so, then I'll take (if a tad unhappily) the bald execution of this week if it gives us that reward.
Thoughts= stars I can't fathom into constellationsthesicko1012 on October 9th, 2011 10:34 pm (UTC)
That's the thing with this show and how almost all the characters seem to view the Salvatore Brothers. Stefan good, Damon bad. It's very black and white with these two. While Damon has done things that are in fact horrible, he has done so many things that are good that go completely unnoticed. At the same time, Stefan has ripped people apart with the body count still piling up and yet everyone still regards him as the "good brother". There is no good brother! There are two vampire brothers struggling with who they used to be as humans and what is now their basic nature. They just both handle it in different ways. I keep saying that one reason why people can't see Stefan as anything but the hero is because they haven't seen him do these bad things with their own eyes. But the problem I have with this they HAVE seen Damon do GOOD things, yet it always get disredarded and their view of him as the "Bad Brother" remains unscathed.

I never really thought that Caroline was one of those people though. Like you said, Caroline has forgiven a lot of people for a lot of things and with the way the writers chose to handle (or not handle) their storyline, it seemed like she had a more complex view of him rather than just marking him as evil. So yeah, I was really upset that they had Caroline jump on that bandwagon. ESPECIALLY after I saw the scene where she was completely alright with her father again. He locked her up and physically TORTURED her and now she acts like everything is alright between them. I get that he is her father and, yes, she shouldn't let Damon kill him, but to all of a sudden be okay with the guy? I was watchinng this episode with my dad and I told him right after that scene "Just so you know, if you spend hours torturing me, don't expect us to be on speaking terms for a while." and he said "Fair enough". I just HATE that she was so forgiving of him after a day or two while at the same time being so quick to tell Elena how evil Damon is. And after how many things he has done for her since then. And I agree that it would have been better if Caroline acknowledged at least some of the good he had done while still saying that Damon would always be Damon, but they didn't.

I do try to find some meaning as to why the writers had Caroline say all these things about him and I do think I saw it in the last scene. They are just trying to lay it on thick that no matter how bad Damon seems to be or no matter what he does Elena will always be "attracted to him in all his bad brother glory" (*rolls eyes* Because Stefan is SO much better?). I just wish that they didn't take this route with having it be Caroline to say these things and they way she did it. I probably would have felt differently if it were Bonnie. She has always verbalized her dislike of Damon and it really is more a part of her character than it is Caroline's. And, even though Bonnie has grown on me a lot, I still don't like her NEARLY as much as I do Caroline.
Arabian: Damon & Elena06arabian on October 11th, 2011 12:53 am (UTC)
That's the thing with this show and how almost all the characters seem to view the Salvatore Brothers. Stefan good, Damon bad.

Well, I kinda wonder if anyone but Damon, Elena and Alaric know just exactly what Stefan's been up to this summer. And, I wonder if any of them don't know about Stefan's ripping and murderous mayhem, how will they react when they do? What kind of wake-up call will THEY experience regarding the "good" and "bad" brother then?

There are two vampire brothers struggling with who they used to be as humans and what is now their basic nature.

But Stefan has lied to EVERYONE, not just Elena. Presenting an unreal front. Damon has been upfront and honest, and it may be very interesting if we find out that the others don't know, and how will they respond. Hmm...

But the problem I have with this they HAVE seen Damon do GOOD things, yet it always get disregarded and their view of him as the "Bad Brother" remains unscathed.

I hope that the heavy-handedness of all of this was deliberate -- which still doesn't excuse the sloppiness on display here -- because next week, they're all falling apart in various fights (Caroline/Tyler against Rebekah; Elena against Stefan/Klaus) and Damon gets back into town -- as I assume he will once Katherine gives him the information about the necklace -- and he does save the day. And THIS TIME it will be acknowledged and they will finally wise up a bit to ALL that Damon does do for them. If so, then I'll take (if a tad unhappily) the bald execution of this week if it gives us that reward.

I never really thought that Caroline was one of those people though. Like you said, Caroline has forgiven a lot of people for a lot of things and with the way the writers chose to handle (or not handle) their storyline, it seemed like she had a more complex view of him rather than just marking him as evil.

I'm just going to go with (a) she had a really bad week, (b) the whole issues with her dad, (c) Damon did treat her horribly and it was never dealt with (d) she loves Elena like a sister and doesn't want to see her hurt and she knows how bad he can be, and (e) if she doesn't know about Stefan's extracurricular activities, it would explain why she's not warning her against both Salvatore brothers. Unfortunately, with a not particularly strong script-character wise, it's what I'm left with.

ESPECIALLY after I saw the scene where she was completely alright with her father again.

That didn't bother me, because it's Caroline, he's her father, and she's always seeking for absolution from those she loves (see Damon -- before she was done with him, see Matt -- uhm, always, see Tyler -- who, yes, has made up for it now, but did some horrible things, see now her dad.)

I just HATE that she was so forgiving of him after a day or two while at the same time being so quick to tell Elena how evil Damon is.

But Bill is her father who was only doing what he did because he loves her and she has to hold onto that or she'll lose it completely. Damon is her ex-boyfriend who treated her like utter and complete crap. With her issues, I can see where that difference is coming from. It's like Elena forgiving Damon everything, while the others can't, because Elena knows him in a different way than the others.

I do try to find some meaning as to why the writers had Caroline say all these things about him and I do think I saw it in the last scene. They are just trying to lay it on thick that no matter how bad Damon seems to be or no matter what he does Elena will always be "attracted to him in all his bad brother glory" (*rolls eyes* Because Stefan is SO much better?).

Yes, and again, I'm really thinking now that they do not know about Stefan. It makes SO MUCH SENSE that they don't.

I just wish that they didn't take this route with having it be Caroline to say these things and they way she did it. I probably would have felt differently if it were Bonnie. She has always verbalized her dislike of Damon and it really is more a part of her character than it is Caroline's.

Yeah, it would have worked so much better ALL AROUND had they given this role to Bonnie.
Aly J.: TVD -- Caroline (4)simply_aly on October 10th, 2011 09:41 pm (UTC)
Having problems completely agreeing with you or youcallitwinter, I have made my own (mostly relevant) post HERE, if you care to read it.
Arabian: Caroline06arabian on October 10th, 2011 09:56 pm (UTC)
Read it, and responded. :)
MissDKmissdk on October 13th, 2011 03:49 pm (UTC)
Few times in my life have I agreed with anything as much as I agree with this.

I had MAJOR problems with Caroline's anti-Damon attitude and it was SO annoying and hurtful to listen to because Damon cares about her, no matter how little he shows it, he DOES care about her as a friend and she knows it! He also apologized to her for everything he had done to her while they were dating, and she knew he meant it!

He stood up for her against her mother when her mom found out she was a vampire and didnt want anything to do with her. He was all "She is still your daughter, Liz". And also of course, he was 1 second from DYING FOREVER from a werewolf-bite because he saved her life.

It just seemed like no matter what Damon does, it is ALL forgotten because Damon is "the bad brother". Im so sick of the stereotyping of Damon by all the characters except for Stefan and Elena. Everyone else is like BLIND about all the good things including risking his life, risking the TRUE DEATH, and only remember the selflish and cruel things he has done when his humanity switch was off.

Let's also not forget how Caroline's dad threatened and tortured Caroline, threatened Damon and all vampires in town, threatened to poison them all with vervain in the water, and was a direct threat for Damon's life. What was he supposed to do exactly?

Having said that: I am a MAJOR Caroline fangirl. I am in love with her. I just really wish she would lose the attitude.
And I wish to see a Damon-Caroline friendship more or a maker-baby Vamp relationship with funny banter and them looking out for each other. They have fantastic non-romantic chemistry that I enjoy very much.