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07 October 2011 @ 02:19 am
3.04 - 'Disturbing Behavior' (The Vampire Diaries)  
So, no Thursday new-TVD curse, yay! Also my first week with my new work schedule (as in I don't get home until 11pm), so that was bummy, but, hey at least I can watch it, write my post past midnight and not have to get up early the next morning!

Did anyone feel like this episode kinda undid a lot of what was awesome about the last episode? Stefan and Klaus, Stefan and Rebekah, the idea that Stefan might be torn between his feelings for Klaus and Rebekah because of the 20's and his life now? I did. I mean, it was all back to same-old, same-old with Stefan. Snarkily the same with Katherine -- which, yeah, I did like, the show (via Rebekah) telling him that he'll only ever love Elena, and after the stuff he did last week (making her believe for even a second that he'd reveal to her Klaus, physically manhandling her), it left a sour feeling in my gut. So that was pretty disappointing actually. I hope the arc doesn't play out as simplistically as this episode made it appear to. It just felt like it took away the mystery and complications introduced in the last episode and just kinda decided, yeah, no big, no lasting effect. I don't know.

However, I did enjoy seeing Katherine and Stefan interact. It reminded me of something I'd forgotten since it's been so long since we've actually seen these two spend more than two seconds together, and alone at that! Even when he's "good" Stefan he seems more, I don't know, engaged when Katherine's around. It's like she gives him a little pep to his step. Pep that sadly was nowhere in evidence at all with Rebekah. I really do feel cheated in that regard because they really did have a moment when he remembered at the end of the last episode, and; I feel like that was all frittered away. And that makes me sad because I really liked the two of them together, and all the beauty and romance of them last week (yes, mostly in the past, but still there in those few moments in the present) just seemed to be gone this time around.

And in what kinda became a recurring theme regarding my thoughts for this episode, it felt like I was missing scenes. Last week, Rebekah chose Stefan over Klaus in the 20's, and although no time has passed for her, like *that* she gives Stefan up and is all on Klaus' side. I can reasonably logic it out, but I shouldn't have to try and puzzle over and figure out character motivations and kinda, sorta make them fit the story and plot points. We should have scenes, moments that show that shift. Her kissing him once and deciding it wasn't in his kiss wasn't enough given the story we were SHOWN (shown, not told, we were SHOWN) in the last episode. Yes, they had spent a day or two together, I suppose, but we didn't see it, so it felt ... flat. What happened to that melting, misty-eyed look of love on her face? Where went the softness, sweetness of his voice saying her name and looking at her with new, remembering eyes? It was just no where at play here. There was no shift explaining that away. Maybe it will come, but it felt like we were missing something here, now, in this episode.

And it also felt a bit like whiplash in terms of Damon too -- much like "Klaus" did. Why was he suddenly pushed to such extremes? Because Alaric wasn't all buddy buddy with him 100%? Because Elena didn't want him to kill Caroline's father? Because he got into a fight with Caroline? You're gonna tell me that Alaric has not argued, disagreed with Damon at all, that he's regularly just Damon's yes-man? I don't buy that. Elena not wanting him to kill her friend's family is such a shock to him? Caroline being upset that he's chomping on her father? All of these things were perfectly reasonable, and perfectly reasonable in Damon-view as well, so what pushed him to the extreme? (Although, thank goodness, his extreme this time did not include 'can't-come-back-from' murder.) Again, it felt like we missed something in between that would justify Damon suddenly being off the rails as much as he was. Had this happened after "The Birthday," I could have seen it. Had we even seen Damon reacting to the fact that Stefan truly may be gone to them, that would have worked to explain his tension. However, we didn't get any reaction from Damon to how the Chicago trip ended, and he seemed positively jocular in the opening scene with Elena. So, yeah, it was like it was missing some narrative flow there.

ETA: Upon reflection and discussion with others, I realize it wasn't Damon that was out of character at all. Damon was being told by everyone how to properly act, and it was annoying, and he didn't really do any permanent damage. He made sure Ric had on his ring, he didn't kill Bill (heh, "Kill Bill"), he just basically did a vampire's version of venting. It just, well, as modbelle said elsewhere, it wasn't really Damon that was out of character, it was the others who were. Damon's existence is in jeopardy (from Bill threatening to out him, vervain in the town water supply could seriously mess with him), and Elena and Ric are all 'Yeah! That's a good idea!' What were THEY thinking?

So, really, it's not like we missed scenes with Damon, but rather we missed a natural enough progression with Elena and Alaric. we didn't see enough bridging scenes with those two, and even Caroline to a degree to explain where they were coming from. Suddenly Elena and Alaric have forgotten that Damon's a vampire who actually, you know, accepts that and acts accordingly, and Caroline has completely forgotten that Damon saved her life FOUR TIMES, Tyler's once, and Matt's once, is her mom's good friend, tried to help their relationship out (Liz/Caroline) ... but no, he does bad things to good people, that's all she can say about him. It was like all of the good he did between her kicking his ass in 2.02 and tonight's episode was forgotten.

Also, it wasn't fun to watch the Damon/Alaric storyline play out as fan of the two. I did like that Damon made sure Alaric had the ring, but still, killing him was, yeah, ridiculously extreme, and Ric's reaction was completely warranted. And it bugged me because I don't want Ric and Damon to be in a situation where Damon's reactions are puzzling from a viewer/Damon-fan point of view that lead to understanding Ric being really pissed at him. (ETA: Of course, I don't find Damon's actions puzzling any longer; see a few paragraphs up.) It just sucks. And while I applaud Alaric's final scene with Carol and Liz, it still stung because it felt like he was kinda closing the door on a real friendship with Damon, and since Ric has pretty much been the only who who's come even remotely close to being on his side without undue harshness in a long while, that bums me out. Because, yeah, Damon's a dick, but he's partially a dick because no one will stand by him and see him through his darker days and impulses. Stefan had Lexi, he has Elena, no doubt Caroline, probably Bonnie too. Damon? Had Ric, who wasn't really concentrating all that much on helping Damon, but rather just there as a sorta-drinking buddy and dealing with his own major issues. So, yeah, it was tough seeing as a Damon-fan and as a Damon/Alaric fan.

It didn't help that at the same time this was happening we had Caroline being all nasty about him. Yes, they have that history, but we haven't seen anything to indicate that she still has such issue with him, and considering their last real interaction (that we witnessed) included Damon (a) rescuing her from sacrifice duty, and (b) taking a werewolf bite for her, it doesn't really jibe that she would be that, well, nasty about him. I'm not saying that it isn't justified, but, again, when we've been given NOTHING to indicate that she still has issues with him and the previously mentioned happened recently, well, it was kinda not fun to see as a Damon fan. Especially when the little bit of interaction we *did* get in "The Birthday" rather pointed that she was pretty okay with him. So yeah, I was put a bit off by that too.

ETA: To go more into detail about this. Some have put up that well, Caroline was looking at it from the point of view of being Elena's friend. I still have a problem with it because of the phrasing. Had she made any sort of disclaimer like "I know he's better, or he's not the same guy from when he first came to town ... BUT he's still DAMON!" I would have been fine, but it was the unmitigated vibe of HE'S EVIL! that really bothered me. Be Elena's friend, point out the Damon-ness of Damon, but still acknowledge that he's not this evil, sick monster he was when they first met him.

I mean, Caroline actually warned Elena herself of the vampire-ness of it all back in 2.04 (even if it was from prodding from Katherine, it was all true). Yet, that was delivered in a note of 'well, vampires are vampires,' thus absolving Stefan -- because Stefan kept Elena in the dark about the reality of vampirism. But now that it's Damon, suddenly it's not vampirism, it's OH, DAMON IS BAD! And that is what bugged me. Be a good friend, fine, but don't lay it all on Damon's feet as if he's the big bad who hasn't been working his ass off for however long to save ALL of their lives on a fairly regular basis. He's not all bad, and THAT is how Caroline was portraying him, and for someone, again, who saved her life -- again, FOUR TIMES: 1) Giving her vampire blood to heal her in "The Return." 2) Helping Stefan and Tyler in "Daddy Issues, 3 and 4) Rescuing her as vampire-bait in the sacrifice from the tomb, and pushing her out of the way to take Tyler's bite in "The Last Day. He also saved her ex-boyfriend's life (from Tyler's were-wolfyness), and her not-then-but-sorta-now boyfriend's life (from the tomb in TLD), is her mom's good friend, tried to help their relationship out (Liz/Caroline), that was pretty crappy.

Also, I actually was kinda thrown by that early kitchen scene between Damon and Elena, the laughing/shoving was just ... I don't know, odd? Not that I didn't enjoy the moment, and the eyes/lips looking at bit afterwards when he held her necklace, but still, the laughing kinda came a bit out of nowhere for me. I did really like the rest of their scenes though, and was pleasantly surprised that Elena actually admitted by saying she couldn't even entertain the thought that she felt something for Damon. Because honestly, I wasn't expecting there to be any follow-through when the previous conversations kept getting interrupted. And I REALLY liked the scene where she all but said, 'you need to not be who you really are so that I can like you,' and he called her on it. Because part of the mess she is in with Stefan is because that's what Stefan did, and trying to recreate that with Damon is wrong on so many levels. Wrong because, as Damon said, he's not Stefan. Wrong because it was wrong of Stefan to pretend to be something he's not. Because he did, and that's why Elena is so ill-equipped to deal with all that is going on because she has no truth of who Stefan really is to base reality upon.

If she's going to immerse herself in this supernatural world (and she doesn't really have much choice unless she wants to walk away from everyone and everything she loves), she needs to understand the reality of it. That is something that she and Stefan never really did. And if Elena can acknowledge without acknowledging that she does feel for Damon despite knowing that he won't pretend to be something he's not, well, that's a step in the right direction as long as she is going to be playing in the supernatural playground.

With that said, I'm also REALLY glad that Damon is taking off. Obviously, based on the preview, it doesn't last very long, but I'm still glad it's happening. The guy has been basically busting his ass since what happened to Jeremy to do the right thing, to keep Elena and -- if it doesn't endanger her -- everyone else safe. He's been trying to bring Stefan home, he's been protecting this town, and fighting against his vampire nature with his only reward being Elena allowing him in her life (while doing a lot of chastising in the process), and Ric as his friend. And now even that looks like it's being taken away. Has Damon screwed up, has he taken steps backwards? Absolutely. But, hello, it's called positive reinforcement, folks?

Without any positive feedback, but only judgment, negativity and, yeah, the girl he loves lying to herself and him about her feelings, it's perfectly logical that he'd have those setbacks. Yet no one seems to even remotely realize that, and thus acknowledge it. I mean, I know Ric was trying to protect Elena, but he simply assumed the worst of Damon in the situation, and he was wrong. Damon hasn't pushed Elena, Damon has been looking out for her welfare and well-being. He hasn't been making moves, he hasn't been trying to steal his brother's girl, and yet because Elena has feelings for Damon that she can't disguise, Alaric is blaming Damon. (Kinda like Jenna accusing Damon of having his hands all over "Elena," without acknowledging that as far as she knew, Elena had her hands all over Damon as well.)

And agreeing to go with Katherine makes perfect psychological sense. She's who taught him to be a vampire without humanity, and everyone who wants him to embrace his humanity makes him feel like shit. If you're getting criticized, attacked, let down, insulted, rejected and repudiated on all sides why wouldn't you then choose to hitch your wagon to someone who accepts who you are and won't give you crap about it? That's Katherine. And since, as far as we last saw, he's over her, it's a safe risk for him.

Another leap and missing scenes for me was Daddy Forbes. He just seemed way too calm and accepting of everything after how he acted in the last episode. I don't know, it's almost like script-writer Brian Young had a vague notion of what happened in the previous episode, but didn't realize the emotional beats that played out or something? Because there just wasn't a great flow from the last to this episode in any continuing arc (ie; Damon, Stefan/Klaus/Rebekah, Caroline/Daddy Forbes). It wasn't bad, I think all involved with TVD are too good to ever deliver bad television now, it just was the weakest of this season so far for sure.

I'm back to more enjoying the Jeremy-ghost story (probably because there was no Matt this time around). I really appreciate that Jeremy chose Bonnie over Anna because (a) Bonnie's alive, Anna's a ghost, and (b) I never cared much for Jeremy/Anna, but I love Jeremy/Bonnie. Speaking of, how adorable was that little pick-up twirl when they first saw each other? Squee!

Anyhoo, random thoughts ...

- I did LOVE seeing Damon and Liz interacting as friends and colleagues again. I loved, loved, loved her saying "things are okay with us" meaning ... things are okay with them. WHEE!!!

ETA: Man, why was that final shot of the first Damon/Liz such a close-up? In HD you can sorta see that Liz is returning Damon's look perfectly. So awesome.

- I thought it was interesting that we were reminded about Bill being gay this week, when it didn't come up at all last week.

- Okay, so there has to be something more to the fact that Bill can't be compelled beyond 'mind over matter' right?

- The role of tonight's booty-call interruptus is being played by Tyler Lockwood. Heh. I admit that was a cute scene. I still don't ship them, though.

- I was surprised that Gloria was doing such awful things to Stefan because I didn't get the impression that she was doing it for good reasons. And I was really surprised that Katherine killed her. I didn't expect her to die. Ah well. Another witch bites the dust.

- Bored Klaus shopping is amusing. Heh.

- I did think it was the same Elena/Katherine top at first, but they were definitely different, but similar enough to make it fly. Good job.

- Heh. Damon banging his head on the door when realizing it was Katherine was funny.

- Also funny? Damon's response that he knew it was an old Gilbert family recipe and their chili was always sucky. Hee.

- I liked Damon basically explaining away all of the Founder's parties by saying, yeah, it's just an excuse for Founders' back room meetings.

- Speaking of ... whoah, who were all those other people at the Founder's back room meeting?

- Finally, so does Carol know that Damon is a vampire or not?

Overall, not my favorite, and I hope it plays out better when watched amidst a whole season rewatch. It had some good stuff, but too much lack of character narrative flow in my opinion. Still, a so-so Vampire Diaries episode is still better than anything else on television in my book. :)
 
 
 
Silvia Kundera: tvd-elenasilviakundera on October 7th, 2011 06:46 am (UTC)
Yeah, the characterization beats were so off. I would... like to not see more scripts from this writer in the future. This felt like Marti Noxon writing BtVS (to make an old fandom reference lol). DNW.
Arabian: Elena06arabian on October 7th, 2011 07:04 am (UTC)
Yeah, the characterization beats were so off.

Yup.

I would... like to not see more scripts from this writer in the future.

The thing is he's a regular writer for the show. His co-writing stuff is generally pretty good: "Family Ties" (the first truly good episode, in my book"), "History Repeating," "Unpleasantville," "Isobel" (a fantastic one), "The Last Day." It's his solo writing efforts that mostly are less than fantastic (in my opinion). Other than "A Few Good Men," and "Rose" -- which I didn't think was as great as many others did, but it was still very good, his solo stuff hasn't been my favorite: "Brave New World" and "Crying Wolf" were his other two solo efforts. He also did the story for "Let the Right One In," but Julie Plec wrote the script.

So, yeah, when he writes with others, he generally does a pretty dang good job, but solo efforts? Yeah, no.

And as a long-time Noxon-hater, I'm with ya there!
(no subject) - vanimy on October 7th, 2011 11:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on November 11th, 2011 02:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
Maeve: Misfits: Time Is Nothingmarble_rose on October 7th, 2011 07:35 am (UTC)
Yeah, I gotta agree with a lot of stuff you say here. This episode just felt really jarring to me, like it didn't quite connect with last week's episode or like we were missing an episode that would link this one to the previous one. I spent a little bit of time confused about Carol's role in everything. It was just...weird seeing Caroline show up at Carol Lockwood's house for the Founders' party after what happened. I feel like we needed some sort of scene where they acknowledged each other and Carol apologized and admitted she was wrong. It just didn't gel.

I don't know wtf they were doing with Damon this episode. It's not that his actions were out of the realm of possibility for his character; they're obviously not. I just don't know why he behaved this way now. There was no "it'll always be Stefan" moment. So far this season, we've gotten a relatively mature and supportive Damon, and sorry, but this episode didn't give a logical enough catalyst for the change in behavior.

As for Stefan, why is this show so desperate not to follow through on anything with his character? I get so tired of them dangling these awesome things in my face only to rip them away! They had me so excited about Stefan/Katherine last season, but then that went nowhere. And now this season I was so looking forward to Stefan/Klaus/Rebekah; I wanted Stefan to feel torn over his relationships with them. Why can't I have nice things?
Arabian: Damon & Elena07arabian on October 7th, 2011 09:47 pm (UTC)
I spent a little bit of time confused about Carol's role in everything. It was just...weird seeing Caroline show up at Carol Lockwood's house for the Founders' party after what happened.

And not just that, yeah, apparently now she knows that Damon is a vampire and she's all fine and dandy with it? We didn't even get a scene dealing with it? What?

I feel like we needed some sort of scene where they acknowledged each other and Carol apologized and admitted she was wrong. It just didn't gel.

Yeah.

I don't know wtf they were doing with Damon this episode. It's not that his actions were out of the realm of possibility for his character; they're obviously not. I just don't know why he behaved this way now. There was no "it'll always be Stefan" moment. So far this season, we've gotten a relatively mature and supportive Damon, and sorry, but this episode didn't give a logical enough catalyst for the change in behavior.

butterfly explained it in a way where it does make sense; ie -- Damon was being told by everyone how to properly act, and it was annoying, and he didn't really do any permanent damage. He made sure Ric had on his ring, he didn't kill Bill (heh, "Kill Bill"), he just basically did a vampire's version of venting. It just, well, as modbelle said elsewhere, it wasn't really Damon that was out of character, it was the others who were. Damon's existence is in jeopardy (from Bill threatening the out him, vervain in the town water supply could seriously mess with him), and Elena and Ric are all 'Yeah! That's a good idea!' What were THEY thinking? So, really, it's not like we missed scenes with Damon, but rather we missed a natural enough progression with Elena and Alaric to explain them suddenly forgetting completely that Damon is, you know, a vampire!

As for Stefan, why is this show so desperate not to follow through on anything with his character? I get so tired of them dangling these awesome things in my face only to rip them away!

Sigh, I know. I really do feel let down here, but (again) butterfly pointed out that at this stage it is in character for Stefan to regress and repress, so maybe we're just getting the calm before the storm?

They had me so excited about Stefan/Katherine last season, but then that went nowhere.

I still do not hold to that because obviously S/K is NOT done with, and I never thought it was. It didn't go nowhere, it was always there simmering on the back burner, and we're continuing to see it play out this season already.

And now this season I was so looking forward to Stefan/Klaus/Rebekah; I wanted Stefan to feel torn over his relationships with them.

I'm still hoping we'll get more with that. Pretty, pretty please! It may be that they didn't realize how big a reaction Stefan and Rebekah would get and towards the mid-season will get a resurgence with them (if it's not already planned.)
Diana: Vampire Diaries - Playful Katbutterfly on October 7th, 2011 07:50 am (UTC)
Stefan and Klaus, Stefan and Rebekah, the idea that Stefan might be torn between his feelings for Klaus and Rebekah because of the 20's and his life now? I did. I mean, it was all back to same-old, same-old with Stefan. Snarkily the same with Katherine -- which, yeah, I did like, the show (via Rebekah) telling him that he'll only ever love Elena, and after the stuff he did last week (making her believe for even a second that he'd reveal to her Klaus, physically manhandling her), it left a sour feeling in my gut. So that was pretty disappointing actually. I hope the arc doesn't play out as simplistically as this episode made it appear to. It just felt like it took away the mystery and complications introduced in the last episode and just kinda decided, yeah, no big, no lasting effect. I don't know.

Stefan's such a great one for repression, though. So, there's that. I do hope that they plan to do more with Stefan/Rebekah. We only just got it.

- I liked Damon basically explaining away all of the Founder's parties by saying, yeah, it's just an excuse for Founders' back room meetings.

Finally, it all makes sense!

I have thoughts on Damon's characterization, but I'm going to do it in a post in my journal, I think.
Arabian: Stefan & Katherine01arabian on October 7th, 2011 09:49 pm (UTC)
Stefan's such a great one for repression, though. So, there's that. I do hope that they plan to do more with Stefan/Rebekah. We only just got it.

That is very true. I have to keep reminding myself whenever I'm disappointed in an episode that it can and generally does play out better when viewed through the whole season. I mean, I was HORRIBLY disappointed with "By the Light of the Moon" last season, but upon rewatch amidst the whole season, it was a really strong episode.

Finally, [the Founder's parties] all makes sense!

Hee!

I have thoughts on Damon's characterization, but I'm going to do it in a post in my journal, I think.

As, I said I do see where you're coming from, and upon reflection and discussion with you and others, I realize it wasn't Damon that was out of character at all, it was Elena, Alaric and even Caroline to a degree in that we didn't see enough bridging scenes to explain where they were coming from. Suddenly Elena and Alaric have forgotten that Damon's a vampire who actually, you know, accepts that and acts accordingly, and Caroline has completely forgotten that Damon saved her life twice, Tyler's once, and Matt's once, is her mom's good friend, tried to help their relationship out (Liz/Caroline) ... but no, he does bad things to good people, that's all she can say about him. It was like all of the good he did between her kicking his ass in 2.02 and tonight's episode was forgotten.
x5valex5vale on October 7th, 2011 08:05 am (UTC)
I totally agree with you. The whole episode was odd..to say the least.

I don't know I found the whole Damon's story/ction/reaction a little contrivied. Sam with Rick..what are the writers intentions about their friendship?

What about Stefan/Klaus?

The more I watch TVD. the more I see Damon like Dean in SPn..it doesn't matter how much he tries, he is the one who is always deprived of the people he loves.

Arabian: Deanarabian on October 7th, 2011 09:51 pm (UTC)
On reflection and discussion, it does make more sense overall, but there were definitely flaws.

I don't know I found the whole Damon's story/ction/reaction a little contrivied. Sam with Rick..what are the writers intentions about their friendship?

Yeah, it wasn't Damon, though, actually. It was the others in that we didn't see enough bridging scenes to explain where they were coming from. Suddenly Elena and Alaric have forgotten that Damon's a vampire who actually, you know, accepts that and acts accordingly, and Caroline has completely forgotten that Damon saved her life twice, Tyler's once, and Matt's once, is her mom's good friend, tried to help their relationship out (Liz/Caroline) ... but no, he does bad things to good people, that's all she can say about him. It was like all of the good he did between her kicking his ass in 2.02 and tonight's episode was forgotten.
(no subject) - x5vale on October 7th, 2011 10:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 7th, 2011 11:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Azmiri Sultana Mridulmridul777 on October 7th, 2011 08:14 am (UTC)
Part 1
Hi there....How are ya??....So good to know that your "Curse of TVD Thursdays" has subsided. I hope everything's good now.

Did anyone feel like this episode kinda undid a lot of what was awesome about the last episode? Stefan and Klaus, Stefan and Rebekah, the idea that Stefan might be torn between his feelings for Klaus and Rebekah because of the 20's and his life now? I

I did. It kinda felt like those looks from last episodes that were shared between Klaus/Stefan/Rebekah, would have been more appropriate for a much later episode. The interactions in this episode, in light of last episode's luvvy-duvvy ness, seemed a little WTF. And also, just when we thought we might see a shift in Stefan, in accordance to everything that's going on, reality crashes upon us and we find out that nothing has changed at all. Bummer!

However, I did enjoy seeing Katherine and Stefan interact.

It's the weirdest thing. Stefan, when he's around Katherine, he's different. Kinda like how Elena was around Damon in the beginning seasons, especially season 1. The "pep in step" that you mentioned, the snark, the remarks, and especially the way Katherine looks at Stefan. My My..... if looks could do stuff!!
I enjoy and thus enjoyed their interactions a lot, especially the fact that Katherine's tails Stefan even though she knows the risk at being close to Klaus.

Which makes me think, why would she do that. I mean she herself said, she didn't let love come in between and in Season 2 Ep 5 when Mason tried to kill Stefan she just chastised him saying he pulled a stunt with Stefan and Damon Salvatore.
So, if she was so head over heels and undying in love with Stefan, her actions throughout, would have been a little different.
So I have this theory, it might seem, crazy, but I think earlier she was tailing Klaus instead. She runs wherever Klaus is at the moment, stays close, but far enough so he won't notice her. She knows Klaus is looking out for her, and she knows Klaus is "Smarter than everyone", but she figured that Klaus wouldn't peg her as suicidal and foolish to run after/close to him. So she does exactly this, reverse psychology AND this way she can estimate Klaus's plans, before it fires on her or against her benefit.

But this time her actions ARE a little different. This time, she IS infact looking out, even a little bit, for Stefan. AND saving his life. It says something. I don't know what...but something.

Why was he suddenly pushed to such extremes? Because Alaric wasn't all buddy buddy with him 100%? Because Elena didn't want him to kill Caroline's father? Because he got into a fight with Caroline? You're gonna tell me that Alaric has not argued, disagreed with Damon at all, that he's regularly just Damon's yes-man? I don't buy that

Most of Damon's interaction that was shown in this episode seemed a little WTF and WTH to me. Suddenly he is killing people and loving fresh blood. It hasn't been THAT long since Andie died. A week tops. Why was he behaving while biting Bill that he was away from fresh blood since forever. Plus, he suddenly kills Ric because Ric "pissed him off"..Is this the same guy whose outlash after his fake girlfriend was brutally murdered by his brother was to trash his brother's room and nothing else.
If this act of Damon was shown in season 2 or season 1, it would have made sense, but today. It was like, they were trying to remind us, that okay...for 3 episodes we showed y'all how bad Stefan is or can be, and now Damon has to do nasty stuff because he is badder, and he does these stuff because he can. Most of his actions had me like this today:



Arabian: Damon09arabian on October 7th, 2011 11:07 pm (UTC)
Re: Part 1
It kinda felt like those looks from last episodes that were shared between Klaus/Stefan/Rebekah, would have been more appropriate for a much later episode.

Well, butterfly had a very good point in that Stefan is a regresser/represser. It doesn't mean that I still think it could have been handled more smoothly, but I can see where it makes sense character-wise with Stefan.

Katherine's tails Stefan even though she knows the risk at being close to Klaus. Which makes me think, why would she do that. I mean she herself said, she didn't let love come in between and in Season 2 Ep 5 when Mason tried to kill Stefan

Well, that was different. She was easygoing with Mason because she needed him desperately to stay on her side and get her the moonstone and control Klaus. That was self-preservation on her part, and we know that Katherine always comes first for Katherine.

But this time her actions ARE a little different. This time, she IS in fact looking out, even a little bit, for Stefan. AND saving his life.

She HAS to work with others who want Klaus gone because of his invincibility; she has no choice now with the moonstone/curse thingie all done. It makes perfect sense that she would choose to try and work with Stefan (first, because, of course, Stefan is always her first choice) or Damon (her second choice) -- the two that she did care for the most that we know of for sure. Despite all of her flaws and issues with them, she believes that of everyone she's dealt with, Stefan and Damon are the least likely to actually turn around and kill her because despite having the opportunity, neither has chosen to do so yet.

Most of Damon's interaction that was shown in this episode seemed a little WTF and WTH to me.

Upon reflection and discussion with others, I realize it wasn't Damon that was out of character at all. Damon was being told by everyone how to properly act, and it was annoying, and he didn't really do any permanent damage. He made sure Ric had on his ring, he didn't kill Bill (heh, "Kill Bill"), he just basically did a vampire's version of venting. It just, well, as modbelle said elsewhere, it wasn't really Damon that was out of character, it was the others who were. Damon's existence is in jeopardy (from Bill threatening to out him, vervain in the town water supply could seriously mess with him), and Elena and Ric are all 'Yeah! That's a good idea!' What were THEY thinking? So, really, it's not like we missed scenes with Damon, but rather we missed a natural enough progression with Elena and Alaric. we didn't see enough bridging scenes with those two, and even Caroline to a degree to explain where they were coming from. Suddenly Elena and Alaric have forgotten that Damon's a vampire who actually, you know, accepts that and acts accordingly, and Caroline has completely forgotten that Damon saved her life twice, Tyler's once, and Matt's once, is her mom's good friend, tried to help their relationship out (Liz/Caroline) ... but no, he does bad things to good people, that's all she can say about him. It was like all of the good he did between her kicking his ass in 2.02 and tonight's episode was forgotten.

If this act of Damon was shown in season 2 or season 1, it would have made sense, but today. It was like, they were trying to remind us, that okay...for 3 episodes we showed y'all how bad Stefan is or can be, and now Damon has to do nasty stuff because he is badder, and he does these stuff because he can.

Again, he really didn't do anything that was that awful. Yes, he killed Ric -- but knowing that Ric wasn't going to stay dead it was the equivalent of punching a friend who was acting like a really, really lousy friend in vampire-speak. Biting Bill was basically being pesky, but he didn't kill him, he wasn't even out of control. He was sending Bill a message -- one that the guy actually DID need to get. Someone said below that they think Damon not killing Bill is going to turn around and bite them all in the ass down the road, and they may be right. And what he said to Elena was UBER-IMPORTANT and needed to be said!
Azmiri Sultana Mridulmridul777 on October 7th, 2011 08:16 am (UTC)
Part 2
Also, it wasn't fun to watch the Damon/Alaric storyline play out as fan of the two. I did like that Damon made sure Alaric had the ring, but still, killing him was, yeah, ridiculously extreme, and Ric's reaction was completely warranted.

Ric's action's and words regarding Damon's behavior was totally justified. Damon was behaving like a d***k, but what was painful was his reactions regarding Damon and Elena. C'mon, a clap doesn't occur without the performance of both hands at he same time. If he's accusing Damon to be pushing Elena, and he thinks he should take a beat, then why isn't he or anyone advising the same thing to Elena as well.

It didn't help that at the same time this was happening we had Caroline being all nasty about him.

And Caroline....I love you...I love her.....So So Damn much. I loved how strong and Warrior Princess Xena like she was with Damon, and I really enjoyed the ass kicking session. But in all seriousness and honesty-- what was that?

Why was she so "Bitchy" about Damon. She seemed calm and cool and modest to him in the premiere. The last time they interacted, Damon saved her life twice. Now I'm not saying that makes everything between them, BUT last I checked, there wasn't much awkwardness between them. What new, suddenly happened, that Caroline all of a sudden became aware of exactly BAAD Damon is. It was a little "Huh?!"
Plus why are Bonnie and Caroline soooo surprised that Damon's helping her cook. Guy's been there for her and helping her in every so way, since..I have lost count. Is being there for her and helping her in his brother's absence THAT much questionable??

Also, I actually was kinda thrown by that early kitchen scene between Damon and Elena, the laughing/shoving was just ... I don't know, odd?

Moment was cute. But I don't understand the dynamics. One moment, they are all serious and scowling and etc. Next they are participating in a flirty shoving match. One moment Alaric's fine and nicely talking, next he's shooting daggery glares at both D/E. It's like as if, it's written in the script, "Alaric wakes up, finds Damon in the kitchen, remembers who he is so he talks to him nicely at first, but then he remembers he is not okay with the closeness between D/E, so he gives out those menacing looks". A lot of things in this episode seemed a little shaky and constipated. Fluidity between reactions and story lines, seemed a little off to me.
Plus Elena's fixed stare at Damon's lips. And then denying anything or any feelings at all, or trying to be just buddy-buddy with Damon. I don't know WHAT to think anymore.

And I REALLY liked the scene where she all but said, 'you need to not be who you really are so that I can like you,' and he called her on it.

Me too!! 3 words "I AM NOT STEFAN". Said it all. The things that were wrong between her and Stefan from the beginning. The things she HAS to understand about someone being a vampire. The basics. I hope she understands these facts AND her feelings. I actually loved what Caroline said to her at the ending "it makes you Human"....Caroline would know a thing or 2.

With that said, I'm also REALLY glad that Damon is taking off. he's who taught him to be a vampire without humanity, and everyone who wants him to embrace his humanity makes him feel like shit.That's Katherine. And since, as far as we last saw, he's over her, it's a safe risk for him.


I absolutely agree.
Although I think that, in light of whatever has happened in these 2 seasons, he might not be able to completely rid off of his humanity-side by being with Katherine. An he will come back to save Elena's life in the nick of time from Nic and his buddy! LoL.

But I agree, he needed the time out. With everybody so incessantly on his tail. And nobody seems to be needing him, now that no imminent danger is near, and his services are temporarily not needed. He might as well take that "beat" that Alaric has been advising him to take. And who better to take it with than Katherine. What's funny though, is that, NOW he'll be using Katherine for information, distraction, entertainment and temporary lay. OH THE IRONY!! :D :D

youcallitwinter: just to waste my time with you.youcallitwinter on October 7th, 2011 02:59 pm (UTC)
Re: Part 2
@ arabian, mridul: Man, I agree on so many things (although technically I LOVED it), but it did feel rushed; like they wanted lots of things to happen at once and they sort of laid it on to set all storylines in motion.

But as a staunch Caroline stan, I will defend her, lol :D

See, Caroline's bitchiness towards Damon makes perfect sense to me. She's not bitchy about him because she has issues (which she'd be in the right to have, but as we've seen, she doesn't) it's because she's starting to realize that ELENA has actual feelings for him, which is bad in her book. She's Elena's friend first and foremost and she can SEE that Elena seems to think that Damon is or can become Stefan 2.0, which he can't. As long as it was just Damon being insanely in love, she didn't interfere, but now that Elena's starting to build quasi-almost-romantic expectations around his head, Caroline's worried because she knows Damon will disappoint her there. AND HE DOES. In fact it's what he does this very episode. He justifies Caroline's fear and bitchy behavior entirely. And she KNEW he was going to do it, that he wasn't suddenly all sunshine and rainbows, so she had to warn Elena (and at the end, despite everything, she still understands Elena, still accepts her feelings). It's what friends do. It's just what any real life friend would do for you, warn you off someone they think is bad news. She doesn't have to personally hate him to think he's not good for Elena. And Damon's behavior, however OOC, is canon now. At least in the show, this is what he's like. Man, it just makes life tough for all of us. D:
Re: Part 2 - mridul777 on October 7th, 2011 04:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Part 2 - (Anonymous) on October 7th, 2011 04:22 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Part 2 - arabian on October 10th, 2011 10:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Part 2 - arabian on October 10th, 2011 10:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Part 2 - arabian on October 7th, 2011 11:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: Part 2 - arabian on October 7th, 2011 11:07 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Azmiri Sultana Mridulmridul777 on October 7th, 2011 08:17 am (UTC)
Part 3
Another leap and missing scenes for me was Daddy Forbes. He just seemed way too calm and accepting of everything after how he acted in the last episode. I don't know, it's almost like script-writer Brian Young had a vague notion of what happened in the previous episode

Most of today's episode seemed like this. And that "mind over matter thing". I think Daddy Forbes was a vessel for the introduction of such stuff and maybe it will be practiced on Elena and CO. on later episodes. It might also be practiced on the vampires of this show, to prevent compulsion from originals. AND this also gives the humans of this show a certain edge.


I really appreciate that Jeremy chose Bonnie over Anna because (a) Bonnie's alive, Anna's a ghost, and (b) I never cared much for Jeremy/Anna, but I love Jeremy/Bonnie. Speaking of, how adorable was that little pick-up twirl when they first saw each other? Squee!

I loved this fact that Jeremy came clean to Bonnie. My couple is safe. And I hope it remains safe and sound and squeaky till forever. I liked Jeremy/Anna. They were cute, but cute like Tyler/Caroline. I like them, but I will always ship Stefan/Caroline.

I did LOVE seeing Damon and Liz interacting as friends and colleagues again. I loved, loved, loved her saying "things are okay with us" meaning ... things are okay with them. WHEE!!!

YAY! YAY! YAY! YAY! to the fact that Damon and Liz are on good terms. Also when Liz said that she's not okay with Damon's "Life Choices", and the amusing "What?" look he threw her with the line "Is that what you told your husband when you got divorced?" was really really funny.

Heh. Damon banging his head on the door when realizing it was Katherine was funny.

Poor Damon. he actually thought Elena came o apologize. He should have known better. Also, in Teen Choice Awards, Carina asked Nina that "now that Uncle Mason is dead, who is Katherine doing currently"....Nina said "Who I think Katherine's doing...or who I know she's doing?"
So are we to assume that Kat and Damon are doing more than just teenager make out sessions inside the car? I don't know whether to be a little sad or happy. I am definitely happy because we get to see Nina/Ian "hot and heavy" stuff, but my sad and immature heart wishes, it was the other Petrova instead. *sigh*

Finally, so does Carol know that Damon is a vampire or not?

I don't think so. I mean she was civil towards Damon, but she was a little edgy towards Liz. Because she knows Liz's secret, and since Ric didn't mention anything, I don't think she knows...Yet!! By the Way...Loved Man in Action Ric!!
Arabian: Damon05arabian on October 7th, 2011 11:41 pm (UTC)
Re: Part 3
Most of today's episode seemed like this. And that "mind over matter thing". I think Daddy Forbes was a vessel for the introduction of such stuff and maybe it will be practiced on Elena and CO. on later episodes.

Yeah, there has GOT to be more to that.

It might also be practiced on the vampires of this show, to prevent compulsion from originals. AND this also gives the humans of this show a certain edge.

Ooh, good point!

I loved this fact that Jeremy came clean to Bonnie. My couple is safe. And I hope it remains safe and sound and squeaky till forever.

Yup.

YAY! YAY! YAY! YAY! to the fact that Damon and Liz are on good terms. Also when Liz said that she's not okay with Damon's "Life Choices", and the amusing "What?" look he threw her with the line "Is that what you told your husband when you got divorced?" was really really funny.

Oh, man, I adored that. SO MUCH! That was definitely my favorite scene of the episode actually. Loved it!

Poor Damon. he actually thought Elena came o apologize. He should have known better.

Well, I don't know. I mean, Elena does come to apologize to him when she's wrong, and remember she told Caroline that Damon WAS right, she was trying to save him, so it wasn't that unbelievable.

Also, in Teen Choice Awards, Carina asked Nina that "now that Uncle Mason is dead, who is Katherine doing currently"....Nina said "Who I think Katherine's doing...or who I know she's doing?"

I had always expected it would be Damon actually (well, once my Elijah dreams withered away).

So are we to assume that Kat and Damon are doing more than just teenager make out sessions inside the car?

I don't know, we'll find out more next week, I suppose.

I don't know whether to be a little sad or happy. I am definitely happy because we get to see Nina/Ian "hot and heavy" stuff, but my sad and immature heart wishes, it was the other Petrova instead. *sigh*

Well, I don't think Damon will ever fall under katherine's spell again and he does need another distraction after all. Plus, this might be the one to FINALLY make Elena jealous!

I don't think so. I mean she was civil towards Damon, but she was a little edgy towards Liz.

But that little tete-a-tete with the three of them and then Bill joining them seemed like she would have known, I don't know.

Edited at 2011-10-07 11:42 pm (UTC)
Bogwitch: TVD - Carolinebogwitch on October 7th, 2011 11:49 am (UTC)
I have to rewatch as 2am is not the best time to be taking in all the nuances of a show, especially when I'm not used to watching with adverts, but I agree the emotional things seem to have jumped forward faster than the plot. I'm not sure Damon's reactions came out of nowhere exactly though, but I think that perhaps the writing was too passive with what was there.

Stefan will be getting a go in the vervain dungeon of sunlight, I bet (that's what I wanted to say last week and forgot in all the distress over shoes).
Arabian: Caroline02arabian on October 7th, 2011 11:42 pm (UTC)
I agree the emotional things seem to have jumped forward faster than the plot.

I'm not sure Damon's reactions came out of nowhere exactly though, but I think that perhaps the writing was too passive with what was there.

Ooh, passive writing -- good word choice. Also, upon reflection and discussion with others, I realize it wasn't Damon that was out of character at all. Damon was being told by everyone how to properly act, and it was annoying, and he didn't really do any permanent damage. He made sure Ric had on his ring, he didn't kill Bill (heh, "Kill Bill"), he just basically did a vampire's version of venting. It just, well, as modbelle said elsewhere, it wasn't really Damon that was out of character, it was the others who were. Damon's existence is in jeopardy (from Bill threatening the out him, vervain in the town water supply could seriously mess with him), and Elena and Ric are all 'Yeah! That's a good idea!' What were THEY thinking?

So, really, it's not like we missed scenes with Damon, but rather we missed a natural enough progression with Elena and Alaric. we didn't see enough bridging scenes with those two, and even Caroline to a degree to explain where they were coming from. Suddenly Elena and Alaric have forgotten that Damon's a vampire who actually, you know, accepts that and acts accordingly, and Caroline has completely forgotten that Damon saved her life twice, Tyler's once, and Matt's once, is her mom's good friend, tried to help their relationship out (Liz/Caroline) ... but no, he does bad things to good people, that's all she can say about him. It was like all of the good he did between her kicking his ass in 2.02 and tonight's episode was forgotten.


Edited at 2011-10-07 11:43 pm (UTC)
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Azmiri Sultana Mridulmridul777 on October 7th, 2011 04:16 pm (UTC)
It just really bugged me about how Damon doesn't get any kind of positive feedback for anything he does. He's been protecting this town all summer, yet they want to harp on him for what he is

oh thank you! You conveyed my feelings exactly. I just think, that whatever he does. It's never going to be enough.

When danger comes, "Call 911 aka Damon.
Danger's gone...Oh well, he might as well go to hell, coz you know he's sooo BAD. And he's mean, and he's mean and"...
I'm outta bitter words.

I just hope they realize that what Stefan portrayed in his "good" times. Is a mere portrayal. Damon might be a d***k, but he;s the best they've got right now, and judging and grilling his EVERY actions, might result them into losing this anti-hero as well.

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Azmiri Sultana Mridulmridul777 on October 7th, 2011 04:35 pm (UTC)
I was surprised that Gloria was doing such awful things to Stefan because I didn't get the impression that she was doing it for good reasons. And I was really surprised that Katherine killed her. I didn't expect her to die. Ah well. Another witch bites the dust.


No I don't think she was doing it for good reason's as well. Because she mentioned that Elena's necklace (which we NOW know belonged to the original witch) is the witches talisman. And from season 1, we saw the witches talisman is a witches device, a belonging which hides that specific witches' magic and special stuffs. Like the emerald in season 1 contained Emily's magic and helped her to contact and possess Bonnie. A talisman is supposed to be very powerful, containing a lotta magical elements of whomever it belonged to.

So Gloria is this character, who keeps herself young by using magic. So I guess she wsa trying to get her hands on that necklace aka talisman, so that she gains more power, more magic maybe that way she can live longer and be more powerful. I mean, the witch who can cast such a strong spell which might suppress the nature of a hybrid. Her talisman, must be uber-powerful itself.

I wonder what can be done with it! Will they be able to retrieve it from Katherine and save it from Klaus and Rebekah and actually DO whatever that CAN be done with it.

Also, on a side note, Are originals privy to other kind of super natural powers, apart from Original perks, e.g. not burn in the sun, don't die if staked, being able to compel other vampires. I ask this because, Rebekah said she "felt" something is wrong with Stefan, while talking to Klaus after she kissed Stefan. Did she mean it intuition or something else entirely?
You never know.... with this show, absolutely ANY word might have a completely new meaning.
Arabian: Damon04arabian on October 8th, 2011 12:13 am (UTC)
Oh, I think Rebekah just specifically has really good intuition, nothing to do with being an Original. We haven't heard anything similar about Elijah or Klaus.
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Re: 2/2 - arabian on October 8th, 2011 12:25 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: 1/2 - arabian on October 8th, 2011 12:24 am (UTC) (Expand)
sassy, classy, and a bit smart-assy: TVD: Damon on bedbadboy_fangirl on October 7th, 2011 07:17 pm (UTC)
I have been to focused on OT3 #1 (Damon/Elena/Alaric) that I haven't even had time to think about OT3 #2 (Klaus/Rebekah/Stefan), but yes, I agree with your opening statements--I wanted there to be more ambiguousness going there. Not that Stefan wouldn't still protect Elena at all costs, but just that he might have some allegiance to Klaus and Rebekah now (other than obviously thinking Rebekah is hot). Pretty disappointed in all that, especially after the phenomenal set up in the last episode.

Question here:
It didn't help that at the same time this was happening we had Caroline being all nasty about him.
I didn't get the vibe from Caroline that she was putting Damon down--I got the impression that she was trying to make it clear to Elena that Damon isn't Stefan (just as Damon himself would say in a few hours' time) and that she can't make him into Stefan. I didn't feel like she judged Elena for having feelings, just for not being honest about it. Even though of everyone, Caroline has the right to say: DAMON'S AWFUL, she never said that. She just said Damon won't change, and you better deal with reality, sister. The fight with D&C later just felt like it was about her dad and the fact that if anyone's going to punish him for being an asswipe, it will be Caroline. But she's not there yet, and we know she tends to let people treat her badly for a while before she grows a backbone.

- Speaking of ... whoah, who were all those other people at the Founder's back room meeting?
IKR? I totally thought: WHAT ARE ALL THOSE PEOPLE DOING THERE?

- Finally, so does Carol know that Damon is a vampire or not?
I'm going with yes, especially based on Ric's final conversation with them. I felt like Damon saying Carol's name and her saying is back was the tense-yes-I-know-what-you-are-and-I'm-accepting-it kind of thing.
Arabian: Damon12arabian on October 8th, 2011 12:31 am (UTC)
I have been to focused on OT3 #1 (Damon/Elena/Alaric) that I haven't even had time to think about OT3 #2 (Klaus/Rebekah/Stefan), but yes, I agree with your opening statements--I wanted there to be more ambiguousness going there. Not that Stefan wouldn't still protect Elena at all costs, but just that he might have some allegiance to Klaus and Rebekah now (other than obviously thinking Rebekah is hot). Pretty disappointed in all that, especially after the phenomenal set up in the last episode.

I'm hoping that butterfly is right and that this is just the beginning here and we will see more develop out of this. I sure hope so. Also, it may be that they didn't realize how big a reaction Stefan and Rebekah would get and towards the mid-season will get a resurgence with them (if it's not already planned.)

I didn't feel like she judged Elena for having feelings, just for not being honest about it.

I didn't think that either.

Even though of everyone, Caroline has the right to say: DAMON'S AWFUL, she never said that. She just said Damon won't change, and you better deal with reality, sister.

No, but she did, that's how it read to me. She said "he's doing bad things to good people," the vibe we got from her (before that final scene) was very "he's bad!" And it was the phrasing that bothered me. Had she made any sort of disclaimer like "I know he's better, or he's not the same guy from when he first came to town ... BUT he's still DAMON!" I would have been fine, but it was the unmitigated vibe of HE'S EVIL! that really bothered me. Be Elena's friend, point out the Damon-ness of Damon, but still acknowledge that he's not this evil, sick monster he was when they first met him. I mean, Caroline actually warned Elena herself of the vampire-ness of it all back in 2.04 (even if it was from prodding from Katherine, it was all true). Yet, that was delivered in a note of 'well, vampires are vampires,' thus absolving Stefan -- because Stefan kept Elena in the dark about the reality of vampirism. But now that it's Damon, suddenly it's not vampirism, it's OH, DAMON IS BAD! And that is what bugged me.

Be a good friend, fine, but don't lay it all on Damon's feet as if he's the big bad who hasn't been working his ass off for however long to save ALL of their lives on a fairly regular basis. He's not all bad, and THAT is how Caroline was portraying him. I mean, the guy saved her life THREE TIMES (helping when she was kidnapped by the wolves, from the sacrifice in the tomb, from Tyler's wolfbite). He saved Tyler's life (from the sacrifice in the tomb). He saved Matt's life (from Tyler going all were-wolfy). He tried to help her mother accept her as a vampire; is her mother's good friend, and has generally spent the last six months doing just about everything he can to save everyone's life if possible. So, yeah, that was pretty crappy in my book.

I'm going with yes, especially based on Ric's final conversation with them. I felt like Damon saying Carol's name and her saying is back was the tense-yes-I-know-what-you-are-and-I'm-accepting-it kind of thing.

That does bug me. We SHOULD have gotten that scene. Grr.

Edited at 2011-10-08 12:31 am (UTC)
(no subject) - badboy_fangirl on October 8th, 2011 03:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
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vanimy: Damon/Stefanvanimy on October 7th, 2011 11:59 pm (UTC)
Pretty much agreed on everything you said.

This episode was... odd. I didn't outright disliked it like say 'By the light of the moon' but I wasn't over the moon over it either, it felt a little like 'The Birthday' to me. Heck I didn't even feel the need to write a review after the episode, I was just like 'shrug'.

I too was surprised about some things suddenly happening in this episode.

The Stefan/Klaus/Rebekah 'ménage à trois' thing at the beginning literally cracked me up, it was funny (how fun is Klaus looking bored during shopping??), creepy and Stefan was sooo interesting. Then something was off, like you I didn't feel any chemistry between Stefan and Rebekah anymore (I still like Klaus though so not everything was lost after last episode lol) and they negated everything they set up last episode. Stefan doesn't look attracted to Rebekah any longer, he has no feelings for Klaus whatsoever (not even a trace of conflict), he's all about Elena again (yeah I know I'm glad he's trying to protect her but these flashbacks and everyone and their mother saying he only loves Elenaaa when everything last week pointed to a conflict of feelings) and it's boring.

I'm bummed Gloria's dead but she wasn't very nice this week.

I wasn't surprised with Rebekah's turning around on Stefan though. She's been said to have a temper and be changing minds often (remember Klaus' advice to Stefan about not giving her his heart?) so I wasn't surprised she'd feel offended to know Stefan was hung on a girl who wasn't her and was not too subtly trying to get information from her.

(I'm secretly glad Stefan and Klaus aren't over yet though... :P oh and stop teasing us with those coffins dammit! I can't help but think Elijah's in there, reading to be awakened!!)

Katherine and Stefan work so well together, so much chemistry and Stefan having snark, yay!

Heh, when Stefan suggested another diabolical partner, I immediately thought of Damon and so did Katherine. But more on that later.

I didn't feel like Damon was OOC (BTW I adored him with Liz) at all, like you I felt like everybody else was OOC. I really didn't like Alaric in this episode and that's probably a first. He was glaring at Damon/Elena being flirty (usually he's just intrigued or awkward, now he's suddenly glaring?) and he's giving the talk to Damon and you know, implying once again Damon's not good enough for Elena. It would've made so much more sense if he had warned Elena instead (you know like, 'Heh, I'm drinking buddy with Damon but I'm still aware he can be dangerous so be careful') or if he had just friendly asked Damon to be careful because this is Elena, but no, I felt like he was like 'back off from her, you're a monster' and of course Damon didn't react well to that, he was basically told he didn't have Elena's well-being as a priority when all he's shown is he always had her well-being come first (and he didn't even put moves on her so WTF?).

I thought of course Ric was right to be pissed at Damon but the last scene with the council made me fear the worst and as an Damon/Alaric fan I'm really disappointed, I hope Ric'll come around. :(

Elena was in denial too and it was cute how she was so lame at denying her feelings to Caroline. I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking that while that flirty bumping thing in the kitchen between Damon/Elena was cute it kind of came out of nowhere, and felt kinda odd too. But hello invasion of personal space and longing/lusty looks at each other right in front of Alaric! Me liked.

I'm glad Damon told Elena she had to face the fact he wasn't Stefan. Really glad it came out in the open.
vanimy: D/Kvanimy on October 7th, 2011 11:59 pm (UTC)
As for Damon. *sigh*Why is it I always find myself on his side even though he does wrong things?? I felt like everyone didn't know how to speak to him anymore. You don't tell Damon what he should or shouldn't do, it never ends well. You don't imply he's not good enough for Elena, ditto. You don't imply he's the bad guy here when Bill was the one torturing Caroline - his own daughter- last week or tell him on the contrary he's gotten soft. Again, doesn't end well. And I think there's an inner fear there, Damon doesn't want to be Stefan's substitute now he's gone and it's exactly how Elena and Alaric treated him like this week.

So yeah, I don't like Bill and even though of course I understand it, I didn't like Caroline kicking Damon's ass. the first ass kicking was well-done (and more than deserved for what he had done to her) but this one? ugh. Has Damon gotten weak?? He used to pin Isobel to the floor and make her whimper in pain or pin Katherine by the throat and Caroline kicks his ass? Color me surprised.

I was too really glad to see Katherine come here (how cute was it when he realized it was Katherine? he looked all disappointed!) because I felt like everyone had kinda given up on him (again -and I'm sorry Bill is a dick and Caroline forgave him way too easily, ugh I really disliked that whole 'you're my dad so it's okay if you literally burn me alive'part). So I'm glad he's with someone who's not gonna judge him and take some fresh air (and I'm secretly kind of shipping Damon/Katherine as a way secondary ship but still heh). (Yeah, Damon stole my moral compass, so what? :P)

What I didn't quite agree with you on, was Anna and Jeremy. I'm sorry I like Bonnie much better now and I think she was great in this episode (understanding and all, I like her like that) and I don't have anything against Jeremy/Bonnie but I miss Anna and I loved her with Jeremy and I felt so bad for her when she was left alone (even though of course Jeremy is sane enough to choose the alive girlfriend) and I felt there was so much more chemistry between Jeremy and Anna in one episode than Jeremy and Bonnie for a whole season. *gasp*

Wow, so much for not thinking of having anything to say about this episode!

Anyhoo, I hope next week's better this one was kind of a filler and didn't live up to the comparison with the last one.
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flyingfishflyingfish1 on October 8th, 2011 03:42 am (UTC)
Hello...
I agree that the episode was a bit weird. It felt like it was setting up a lot of future events while at the same time feeling disconnected from the momentum of the previous episodes. I don't know. It felt disjointed. There was a lot of good stuff in there, though.

On Stefan/Rebekah--I can't imagine that they'd go to the trouble to set her up as a love interest and then completely ditch that storyline. Otherwise why not just introduce her as a friend? I'm sure they'll get back there. But yes, it did feel as if we'd missed an emotional beat between them.
Stefan/Katherine--ah, I like them too! I've been multishipping Stefan like mad lately.

It didn't help that at the same time this was happening we had Caroline being all nasty about him. Yes, they have that history, but we haven't seen anything to indicate that she still has such issue with him
Okay, I have some thoughts on this. I'll repeat some of what I said in my own reaction post:
The thing is--you're absolutely right that they have called a truce lately. They're not the best of friends but they get along well enough, he saved her life and Tyler's, he's friends with Liz etc. And I'm sure Caroline appreciates all that. But Caroline’s current problem with Damon isn’t about Damon the somewhat-reformed killer, or Damon the go-to guy when you want something done, or Damon-Elena’s-friend, or even Damon the guy who saved her life a couple of months ago. It's about Elena clearly having feelings for Damon, so it’s about Damon the boyfriend, and Caroline has some very, very bad memories of Damon the boyfriend. As far as Caroline is concerned, he does bad things to good people when he dates them. It's significant that Caroline prefaced all this by saying she worries about Elena daily. She just doesn't want her friend to get hurt when she's clearly going into this potential relationship with blinders on. She's being protective because she knows stuff firsthand about this that Elena doesn't.

Now, of course he wouldn't treat Elena the same way he treated Caroline, he's changed enough since then, but I don't blame Caroline for being overcautious given her history with him in that area. She's got her own issues there.

My two cents.

If you're getting criticized, attacked, let down, insulted, rejected and repudiated on all sides why wouldn't you then choose to hitch your wagon to someone who accepts who you are and won't give you crap about it? That's Katherine.
Good point! She doesn't have any expectations. It'll be a break for him.

In HD you can sorta see that Liz is returning Damon's look perfectly. So awesome.
I checked and you're right! Aww, I love that! <3 I'm so glad they're friends again.
Arabian: Damon&Liz01arabian on October 8th, 2011 03:48 am (UTC)
I agree that the episode was a bit weird. It felt like it was setting up a lot of future events while at the same time feeling disconnected from the momentum of the previous episodes. I don't know. It felt disjointed. There was a lot of good stuff in there, though.

I agree; there was a lot of good, it was just missing narrative flow. I actually came up with a way that would have made the Alaric/Damon, and odd note in the Damon/Elena scene work for me though. had they had one scene with Damon/Alaric at the top where Damon explained a little of his frustration over the Stefan ordeal, but that he was going to be there for Elena to keep her spirits up (but said in a winkwink, nudgenudge way because this is Damon), and Alaric responding to the Stefan stuff with 'it's like you guys are ignoring all the damage he's done,' and told him to not talk that way (or something like that) about Elena. One scene like that would have bridged ALL of the issues with the Damon/Elena 'where did that come from?' opener and the Damon/Ric scenes.

Re: Caroline responding as Elena's friend. I do see your point, it's the same that youcallitwinter had and I responded to that thusly:

I have a problem with it because of the phrasing. Had she made any sort of disclaimer like "I know he's better, or he's not the same guy from when he first came to town ... BUT he's still DAMON!" I would have been fine, but it was the unmitigated vibe of HE'S EVIL! that really bothered me. Be Elena's friend, point out the Damon-ness of Damon, but still acknowledge that he's not this evil, sick monster he was when they first met him.

I mean, Caroline actually warned Elena herself of the vampire-ness of it all back in 2.04 (even if it was from prodding from Katherine, it was all true). Yet, that was delivered in a note of 'well, vampires are vampires,' thus absolving Stefan -- because Stefan kept Elena in the dark about the reality of vampirism. But now that it's Damon, suddenly it's not vampirism, it's OH, DAMON IS BAD! And that is what bugged me. Be a good friend, fine, but don't lay it all on Damon's feet as if he's the big bad who hasn't been working his ass off for however long to save ALL of their lives on a fairly regular basis. He's not all bad, and THAT is how Caroline was portraying him, and for someone who saved her life, her ex-boyfriend's life, and her not-then-but-sorta-now boyfriend's life, is her mom's good friend, tried to help their relationship out (Liz/Caroline), that was pretty crappy.

Now, of course he wouldn't treat Elena the same way he treated Caroline, he's changed enough since then, but I don't blame Caroline for being overcautious given her history with him in that area. She's got her own issues there.

Now, if she had been specific re: her relationship with him, again, I would have been fine. But it was the pervading OOH! DAMON = BAD! that bugged me.

Aww, I love that! <3 I'm so glad they're friends again.

I love them so. :D
(no subject) - flyingfish1 on October 8th, 2011 04:09 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on October 8th, 2011 04:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
crowandfog: TVD: Stefan all this timecrowandfog on October 8th, 2011 06:00 am (UTC)
LOL. I love it so much when we agree, because I feel like as opinionated as we both are, if we think the same thing, then OBVIOUSLY we must be RIGHT, LMAO. ;P So I pretty much am right there with you on all of this, but I'll point out the things that I hadn't thought of before reading your post.

I hope the arc doesn't play out as simplistically as this episode made it appear to. It just felt like it took away the mystery and complications introduced in the last episode and just kinda decided, yeah, no big, no lasting effect. I don't know.

Hmm. I didn't think about it too much at the time, but I agree that I was disappointed with Stefan's lack of internal conflict. I assumed that getting his memories back would make his decisions a lot less predictable.

Pep that sadly was nowhere in evidence at all with Rebekah. I really do feel cheated in that regard because they really did have a moment when he remembered at the end of the last episode, and; I feel like that was all frittered away. And that makes me sad because I really liked the two of them together, and all the beauty and romance of them last week (yes, mostly in the past, but still there in those few moments in the present) just seemed to be gone this time around.

Yeah, what happened to all that smoking chemistry? and Stefan's OMG I REMEMBER moment? #wastedpotential

Last week, Rebekah chose Stefan over Klaus in the 20's, and although no time has passed for her, like *that* she gives Stefan up and is all on Klaus' side.

I was shocked by that, too, especially since we've kinda been told that Rebekah is a want-what-you-can't-have kinda girl. Maybe somehow this is part of her make-Stefan-my-man strategy? Weird.

Damon's existence is in jeopardy (from Bill threatening to out him, vervain in the town water supply could seriously mess with him), and Elena and Ric are all 'Yeah! That's a good idea!' What were THEY thinking?

It's even more crazy when we remember that just two episodes ago, Elena gave up her search for her TWULUV!Stefan because it was putting Damon's life in danger. Where is THAT girl?

Has Damon screwed up, has he taken steps backwards? Absolutely. But, hello, it's called positive reinforcement, folks?

I KNOW, RIGHT? How about a "thank you" or a "good job" every once in awhile?

I don't know, it's almost like script-writer Brian Young had a vague notion of what happened in the previous episode, but didn't realize the emotional beats that played out or something?

Yeah, he did an excellent job with the humorous dialogue, but the emotional/character arcs were a bit off.

Really, my only disagreement is that I LOVE Jeremy/Anna, but I agree that Bonnie is alive, so really he should be with her. *cries because Anna is dead*

Edited at 2011-10-08 06:02 am (UTC)
Arabian: Stefan02arabian on October 10th, 2011 11:09 pm (UTC)
I love it so much when we agree

Hasn't happened much this season, so I very much agree. :)

I feel like as opinionated as we both are, if we think the same thing, then OBVIOUSLY we must be RIGHT, LMAO. ;P

Of course. :)

Hmm. I didn't think about it too much at the time, but I agree that I was disappointed with Stefan's lack of internal conflict. I assumed that getting his memories back would make his decisions a lot less predictable.

Exactly. I'm really, really hoping that it was just -- as butterfly suggested -- Stefan doing his head-burying/regression-repression thing.

Yeah, what happened to all that smoking chemistry? and Stefan's OMG I REMEMBER moment? #wastedpotential

I refuse to believe there will be no follow-through when they spent such care and time showing that relationship. I just refuse to believe it. Nope, no way!

It's even more crazy when we remember that just two episodes ago, Elena gave up her search for her TWULUV!Stefan because it was putting Damon's life in danger. Where is THAT girl?

Yeah, I know, RIGHT!?!?!?

I KNOW, RIGHT? How about a "thank you" or a "good job" every once in awhile?

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have to admit a part of me is wondering is the heavy-handedness of all of this was deliberate -- which still doesn't excuse the sloppiness on display here -- because next week, they're all falling apart in various fights (Caroline/Tyler against Rebekah; Elena against Stefan/Klaus) and Damon gets back into town -- as I assume he will once Katherine gives him the information about the necklace -- and he does save the day. And THIS TIME it will be acknowledged and they will finally wise up a bit to ALL that Damon does do for them. If so, then I'll take (if a tad unhappily) the bald execution of this week if it gives us that reward.

Yeah, he did an excellent job with the humorous dialogue, but the emotional/character arcs were a bit off.

Pretty much.

Really, my only disagreement is that I LOVE Jeremy/Anna, but I agree that Bonnie is alive, so really he should be with her. *cries because Anna is dead*

My heart still breaks for Pearl. Always for Pearl. BUt yeah, Bonnie alive, Anna dead - Bonnie good choice, Jere!
ancholiaancholia on October 8th, 2011 11:18 am (UTC)
Yes to all you said, lol.
I'll be honest, this episode disappointed me a lot. I don't want to watch it again because I feel like the characters, the situation have rewind.
Like you said, last week's episode was a promise of a lot of exciting things.
Rebekah for exemple, I had high expectations about her and her relationship with Stefan and her brother but this week she was just an unsufferable child. Klaus, I don't even what was his use in this episode
And why the sudden team anti-Damon? Between Alaric and Caroline, it was a festival of "Damon's bad, don't be close to him" and blablabla. Like you said, he did a lot of good. Without him Caroline would be dead, twice! And Alaric! They're messing with the bromance! I think this upsets me more than when they mess with delena.
Speaking of delena, like you, I though the laughing kitchen scene was too forced. I want progression in their relationship.
Another thing I was disappointed with was the lack of explanation between Liz and Damon. I wanted to see the scene when they talked about it, Damon's vampirism... But no, the writers choose the easy way out.

I know there's a lot of negative here but honestly, the few good points were drawn by all the bad ones. I liked Jeremy/Anna. I always liked them and I want to know more about this whole ghost/darkness/mystery thing.
I liked Damon/Katherine too. I think they're more alike than they would admit. They're both willing to take charge of the situation and kill if necessary (Glinda for Katherine and Mr Forbes for Damon). People think they're reckless and unpredictable but not so much, they just have a more direct approche. That's why, despite being a delena shipper, I'm waiting to watch them next week (taht and the nian fan in me is screaming like a five years old on a Christmas morning).

In conclusion, it was not a good episode for me, maybe because last week was so great. Still, it missed coherence and an actual plot (the necklace one aside).
Arabian: Damon & Elena12arabian on October 10th, 2011 11:19 pm (UTC)
Yes to all you said, lol.

I've actually rethought and added a bit more to my initial thoughts.

I'll be honest, this episode disappointed me a lot. I don't want to watch it again because I feel like the characters, the situation have rewind.

Well, pretty much every TVD episode gets better upon rewatch. "By the Light of the Moon" pissed me off horribly when it aired, but in the rewatch it made perfect sense and was actually a very strong episode. Plus, from a Damon/Elena point of view, this was actually an incredibly strong episode and VERY good for our ship.

Rebekah for exemple, I had high expectations about her and her relationship with Stefan and her brother but this week she was just an unsufferable child.

Well, we knew she was a brat. Klaus already told us that last week in so many words. I think Stefan was in his typical repression/regression mode and Rebekah was reacting to that and thus uber-brattiness. I refuse to believe that they went to such effort to show their love and that's it, poof, it's gone!

Klaus, I don't even what was his use in this episode

To show us the glory of a 1,000 year old hybrid indulging in the female in his life going shopping. And, of course, to bring Stefan back to Mystic Falls. But mostly the shopping. ;)

And why the sudden team anti-Damon? Between Alaric and Caroline

Yeah, no excuse there. This was just badly, badly handled.

Speaking of delena, like you, I though the laughing kitchen scene was too forced. I want progression in their relationship.

I've rewatched it and it actually does make sense. I mean, Elena -- like Stefan -- does the repression/regression thing, plus she's clearly trying to put Stefan behind her now, AND so now the biggest obstacle between her and Damon (her loyalty for Stefan) is gone, so it's easier and easier for her to just let herself be natural and happy with him.

Another thing I was disappointed with was the lack of explanation between Liz and Damon. I wanted to see the scene when they talked about it, Damon's vampirism... But no, the writers choose the easy way out.

Well, I don't think they specifically chose the easy way out here, but rather it fell between the cracks in letting two months pass off-screen. I would have liked to have seen the reconciliation scene, but anyone who cares about the Damon/Liz relationship, having followed it, and how Liz reacted to Caroline, can pretty much guess how it played out. So we just missed that initial conversation and a few months of tension. At least we have them together, besties again.

I liked Jeremy/Anna. I always liked them and I want to know more about this whole ghost/darkness/mystery thing.

I dunno; I'm thinking that Anna's gonna turn out to be the bad one here. Always horning in on Jeremy/Bonnie time. The darkness didn't show up until Anna showed up. So, I dunno.

I liked Damon/Katherine too.

Love them. It's as I said above -- I enjoy them together because of the dynamic, but I don't ship them. Shipping for me means that I want to see the two characters together in love and in a romantic relationship. I don't want that for Damon and Katherine. But I love watching them interact. (And, yes, the Nina/Ian chemistry is a wonderful bonus.)

In conclusion, it was not a good episode for me, maybe because last week was so great. Still, it missed coherence and an actual plot (the necklace one aside).

Oh, it had a plot for me, it just didn't have, well I said it in my post, character-based narrative flow. Ah well. I still hope it play out better amidst a rewatch.
Olga: TVD | D/E | 3x02 | Whipped.dreamingahead on October 8th, 2011 10:34 pm (UTC)
I
It just felt like it took away the mystery and complications introduced in the last episode and just kinda decided, yeah, no big, no lasting effect. I don't know.

I was really disappointed that Stefan apparently doesn't care about Rebekah or Klaus one bit? It was really odd given Paul Wesley's stellar performance as Stefan ~remembers~ them after being de-compelled, and I was like, "OH IT'S ON" so I completely agree that it was weird to see him feeling no conflict whatsoever when it came to them. This episode might as well have been episode 3 that way! I hope this isn't the result of K/J loving Stefan too much to make him side with the baddies because I want my drama & angst damn it, and I'd hate this opportunity to go to waste.

Damon's existence is in jeopardy (from Bill threatening to out him, vervain in the town water supply could seriously mess with him), and Elena and Ric are all 'Yeah! That's a good idea!' What were THEY thinking?

HEH, this. It almost seemed like Alaric and Elena acted that way on purpose because they both were somewhat peeved at him for managing to get so close to Elena after that day. Which, I'm sorry, isn't exactly HIS fault since it's obviously a two-way street.

Also, while I can understand her beating the crap out of Damon for hurting "Daddy" (ugh so many issues w/ her being so cool with the torture), I agree how Caroline's ~judgment of Damon earlier was absolutely perplexing for the reasons you mentioned. Idek why everyone suddenly was so hellbent on being self-righteous about Damon in this ep given that he stood by each and every one of them on more than one occasion. You know, from Damon's POV, that freaking hurts that he would do anything for the people he cares about and all they can say to him is, "... you're still such a monster though". I don't want to say it's the particular writer's personal view of Damon seeping through the cracks, I really don't, but I don't know how else to explain it.

Also, it wasn't fun to watch the Damon/Alaric storyline play out as fan of the two. I did like that Damon made sure Alaric had the ring, but still, killing him was, yeah, ridiculously extreme, and Ric's reaction was completely warranted.

It's incredibly unsettling because I can't see Alaric ever forgiving Damon for that, and it's such a bummer to see that carefully built dynamic with Alaric as Damon's confidant undone all in one episode. Joining the council indeed resembled him putting up a wall between 'the people' (himself) and 'the monsters' (Damon), and while I like that he's in it, I wish he joined sooner on different terms.

Be a good friend, fine, but don't lay it all on Damon's feet as if he's the big bad who hasn't been working his ass off for however long to save ALL of their lives on a fairly regular basis.

THIS. While I liked that Caroline kept prodding at Elena to confess she feels something for Damon, she also kind of turned something that was a non-issue for Elena into a huge issue by planting ~doubts. You know, what I would have liked even more is Elena standing up for Damon in that scene, I mean, she was the one hanging out with him and being beyond comfortable around him, and NOT because she is a ~horrible person~ or w/e, but because HE EARNED HER TRUST AND RESPECT over and over again by being there for her and her friends which he couldn't always equally call his friends. So why is she giving into Caroline's paranoia and acting like enjoying Damon's company is something to guilt trip about is puzzling to me, idk.
Olga: TVD | E | 3x03 | Againdreamingahead on October 8th, 2011 10:35 pm (UTC)
II
Because part of the mess she is in with Stefan is because that's what Stefan did, and trying to recreate that with Damon is wrong on so many levels. Wrong because, as Damon said, he's not Stefan. Wrong because it was wrong of Stefan to pretend to be something he's not. Because he did, and that's why Elena is so ill-equipped to deal with all that is going on because she has no truth of who Stefan really is to base reality upon.

Couldn't have said it better myself. She should have gathered that repression is the worst possible answer to vampirism by now. It's also reinforced by the Caroline/Bill storyline, "you can't change a vampire's basic nature" - and Stefan is an exception to the rule with unfortunate consequences.

And if Elena can acknowledge without acknowledging that she does feel for Damon despite knowing that he won't pretend to be something he's not, well, that's a step in the right direction as long as she is going to be playing in the supernatural playground.

Yeah, I liked that this Elena/Caroline conversation happened after Damon snapped. She answered in the present tense about struggling to acknowledge the attraction and said "You and Damon both were right", meaning she took time to consider his words and understand where he's coming from. I saw that as a step into the right direction as well.

With that said, I'm also REALLY glad that Damon is taking off.

EVERYTHING YOU SAID THERE. SO MUCH. The rest of Team Mystic Falls need to cool their shit down before they can have this guy back b/c it's them who seem to have gone off the rails first which triggered him to act out. It was like a Misguided Concern Day gone epically wrong.

If you're getting criticized, attacked, let down, insulted, rejected and repudiated on all sides why wouldn't you then choose to hitch your wagon to someone who accepts who you are and won't give you crap about it?

Ooh, Katherine will definitely lift his spirits up some. She is great at providing a fresh POV on any given situation. They may even bitch about the occasional senselessness of humanity, and it will be glorious.

He just seemed way too calm and accepting of everything after how he acted in the last episode.

I call passive aggresive. Like I mentioned in my review, I'm pretty sure he's a ticking bom who just wanted to get out of town alive for further plotting. "You're a vampire, sweetheart. I don't think you'll ever be okay again." UGH. That guy makes me want to take a shower.

Man, why was that final shot of the first Damon/Liz such a close-up? In HD you can sorta see that Liz is returning Damon's look perfectly. So awesome.

I noticed that too! It was sort of a "touché, but don't get cheeky now" look. Perfection. :D

I thought it was interesting that we were reminded about Bill being gay this week, when it didn't come up at all last week.

I guess it's because it only comes from Damon who was away last week! It's interesting that Damon is the only one who sees the unmistakeable irony of that.

Another witch bites the dust.

It's such a waste because she tried so hard not to over the years with ~srs voodoo magic~, and then came Katherine and did the job in one seccond. LOL.

- Heh. Damon banging his head on the door when realizing it was Katherine was funny.

- Also funny? Damon's response that he knew it was an old Gilbert family recipe and their chili was always sucky. Hee.


These two are definitely my Damon favourites this episode. Ian has impeccable comedic timing, just thinking about these scenes makes me go all :D :D at the computer screen.

Speaking of ... whoah, who were all those other people at the Founder's back room meeting?

IDK, Logan Fell's extended family? Bill didn't seem to have particularly high opinion of them, either. HEE.

Finally, so does Carol know that Damon is a vampire or not?

I... don't think so? She only knows about Caroline, right?

Here's another one: does Liz know Elena is a doppelganger? How much was she actually told about Stefan's ~kidnapping and the events leading up to it when she was asked for help?

Edited at 2011-10-08 10:36 pm (UTC)
Re: II - arabian on October 11th, 2011 12:05 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: I - arabian on October 10th, 2011 11:36 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: II - arabian on October 10th, 2011 11:37 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Florenciaflorencia7 on October 9th, 2011 09:03 pm (UTC)
That was such an awesome post! I loved reading it.

The kitchen scene was a bit... odd, although I can't say I'm too bothered by Elena being able to smile & laugh & be silly soon after Stefan breaks up with her LOL & Seriously speaking, what's the deal with all the D/E scenes "re-makes"? This season we have already had several scenes that were kind of done before, like Damon escorting Elena to a party, Damon waiting for Elena in her room late in the evening with her walking in in her pajamas, Damon going through Elena's lingerie drawer, D&E going on a road trip, D&E having a happy moment in the kitchen... I really hope there is a REASON for all of these & not the screenwriters having run out of ideas lol

"why was that final shot of the first Damon/Liz such a close-up?" - My sentiments exactly!! I SO wanted to see Liz's face (because that was such a great Damon line ^^) & all I could see was... the edge of my computer screen.

PS. I hope you don't mind if I add you as a friend? I just don't want to miss your future commentaries :)
Arabian: Damon & Elena05arabian on October 10th, 2011 11:45 pm (UTC)
That was such an awesome post! I loved reading it.

Thank you. :)

The kitchen scene was a bit... odd, although I can't say I'm too bothered by Elena being able to smile & laugh & be silly soon after Stefan breaks up with her LOL

Maybe I'm just used to it now, but a rewatch or two actually made it work. I mean, Elena -- like Stefan -- does the repression/regression thing, plus she's clearly trying to put Stefan behind her now, AND so now the biggest obstacle between her and Damon (her loyalty for Stefan) is gone, so it's easier and easier for her to just let herself be natural and happy with him.

Seriously speaking, what's the deal with all the D/E scenes "re-makes"? This season we have already had several scenes that were kind of done before, like Damon escorting Elena to a party, Damon waiting for Elena in her room late in the evening with her walking in in her pajamas, Damon going through Elena's lingerie drawer, D&E going on a road trip, D&E having a happy moment in the kitchen... I really hope there is a REASON for all of these & not the screenwriters having run out of ideas lol

Oh, there's DEFINITELY been a reason. And I think it's awesome. (Although, Damon escorting her to her party, I don't really see a remake, unless you're meaning the dance walk from 1.19 -- but those were so different, I didn't really see a connection.) But him waiting for her in her room? Remember, the last time *we* saw him there like that was in "Rose," but Elena doesn't remember that. So the last time she remembers it was in "The Return" where Damon was drunk (thus Elena asking him) and Damon trying to force Elena to admit she had feelings for him.

But he couldn't because he was drunk and so emotionally devastated and she couldn't deal at all. But this time, he was calm, in control and she couldn't deny her feelings for him. It was a deliberate call-back and it showed just how far these two have come.

As for the kitchen scenes -- the last kitchen scene had Elena jumping when Damon got near her, this time she bumped his hip and laughed. The road trip last time was all about Elena getting to know the real Damon and bonding with him; this road trip wound up being all about Elena beginning to know the real Stefan and their bond breaking even further apart.

It was all about compare/contrast, and it all bespeaks of awesome things for our ship. This show is VERY big into parallelism and I love it, love it, love it.

I hope you don't mind if I add you as a friend? I just don't want to miss your future commentaries :)

Not at all. :)
distant_autumn: Elena - Look by ebsolutelydistant_autumn on October 13th, 2011 04:30 pm (UTC)
Did anyone feel like this episode kinda undid a lot of what was awesome about the last episode? Stefan and Klaus, Stefan and Rebekah, the idea that Stefan might be torn between his feelings for Klaus and Rebekah because of the 20's and his life now?

Agreed. I found it really frustrating and disappointing. It seemed so jarring after how we left the three of them last episode.

the show (via Rebekah) telling him that he'll only ever love Elena

Honestly, I believe he believes that, but I'm not sure the show was in as much agreement as it might first seem? Because he really did love Rebekah back in the 1920s, enough to hold onto her necklace for all that time without ever knowing why. And now it's another girl wearing that necklace, another girl who he loves. He might believe he won't ever love anyone like he loves Elena, but given those parallels (plus that scene in 3.03 where they seemed to intentionally parallel Rebekah and Elena), I've decided to take it as a deliberate sign that he totally will move on, just like he did from Rebekah to Elena in the first place. And Katherine popping back up and interacting with him provided a reminder that he once thought he would be in love with her forever, too.

Even when he's "good" Stefan he seems more, I don't know, engaged when Katherine's around. It's like she gives him a little pep to his step.

I totally agree. And I really liked the fact that even though they were being flip about it, he did care about her safety.

I really liked the two of them [Stefan/Rebekah] together, and all the beauty and romance of them last week (yes, mostly in the past, but still there in those few moments in the present) just seemed to be gone this time around.

Again, I totally agree. I found it so disappointing that they set up such a great, complex situation and made the effort to make S/R so engaging and romantic, and yet by the very next episode, he just regards her as a tool to be manipulated and can't even recognise that she looks physically attractive in a hot dress. Hopefully it is just Stefan doing his thing of repressing like a champ again, and his utter dismissal of any feelings for her is actually, funnily enough, its own strange little sign of that denial. Hopefully this is essentially a fake-out and they're still going to explore S/R some more in the future. But that's just what I'd like to happen, not what I have any guarantee of. And frankly, even if something like that does turn out to the case, it still felt disappointing during this episode.

And in what kinda became a recurring theme regarding my thoughts for this episode, it felt like I was missing scenes.

THIS. I mean, I enjoyed the episode more than you did, despite its flaws, but (as with 'Klaus' last season) it did seem, on multiple occasions, to rely on the audience doing some of the work for them. I mean, I can come up with reasons for certain character leaps that took place but that's really not my job, it's theirs.

What happened to that melting, misty-eyed look of love on her face? Where went the softness, sweetness of his voice saying her name and looking at her with new, remembering eyes?

I honestly didn't mind her so rapidly choosing Klaus, but I agree I would've liked to see more of that sort of visible tenderness/emotion in play after last week. Not just for the sake of emotional continuity, but because I think it would also have enhanced the scene where she does switch sides.

Damon's existence is in jeopardy (from Bill threatening to out him, vervain in the town water supply could seriously mess with him), and Elena and Ric are all 'Yeah! That's a good idea!' What were THEY thinking?

They were way too wrapped up in the issues they were having re: Damon to think clearly, I think. Because yeah, their reactions just totally ignored the fact that he was under threat.

it still stung because it felt like he was kinda closing the door on a real friendship with Damon,

I think the friends part of that "friends and relatives" comment had to be an acknowledgement of his own friendship with Damon, so even if things remain rocky for a while, I do think they'll sort things out in the end.



Arabian: Damon&Alaric03arabian on October 13th, 2011 11:36 pm (UTC)
Honestly, I believe he believes that, but I'm not sure the show was in as much agreement as it might first seem?

That's a really, really, really great point. I so love you!

I've decided to take it as a deliberate sign that he totally will move on, just like he did from Rebekah to Elena in the first place. And Katherine popping back up and interacting with him provided a reminder that he once thought he would be in love with her forever, too.

Yuppers, I will too now. :)

found it so disappointing that they set up such a great, complex situation and made the effort to make S/R so engaging and romantic, and yet by the very next episode, he just regards her as a tool to be manipulated and can't even recognise that she looks physically attractive in a hot dress.

I refuse to believe that was the end of it; I just refuse!

It did seem, on multiple occasions, to rely on the audience doing some of the work for them. I mean, I can come up with reasons for certain character leaps that took place but that's really not my job, it's theirs.

Yup, exactly like "Klaus." Grrr.

agree I would've liked to see more of that sort of visible tenderness/emotion in play after last week. Not just for the sake of emotional continuity, but because I think it would also have enhanced the scene where she does switch sides.

Exactly. I keep coming back to it, but it's so true, there was just such a natural, character-based narrative flow missing from this episode. Brian Young REALLY dropped the ball.

They were way too wrapped up in the issues they were having re: Damon to think clearly, I think. Because yeah, their reactions just totally ignored the fact that he was under threat.

Yeah, especially when up to that point Damon hadn't DONE ANYTHING WRONG! Grrr.

think the friends part of that "friends and relatives" comment had to be an acknowledgement of his own friendship with Damon, so even if things remain rocky for a while, I do think they'll sort things out in the end.

I actually said that myself in response to other people; I thought I'd mentioned it in my original post. My bad.
(no subject) - distant_autumn on October 14th, 2011 12:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
distant_autumn: Elena - What? by imaginary_livesdistant_autumn on October 13th, 2011 04:35 pm (UTC)
Part 2!
I'm not saying that it isn't justified, but, again, when we've been given NOTHING to indicate that she still has issues with him [...] Especially when the little bit of interaction we *did* get in "The Birthday" rather pointed that she was pretty okay with him.

Yeah, I can get it to make sense for me (because I think it was very tied up in her own current issues, and even that aside, I could see her old issues with Damon suddenly coming back up as D/E get closer) but it was again one of those things where I felt like I (rather than the writer) had to do some of the work, which really shouldn't be the case.

was pleasantly surprised that Elena actually admitted by saying she couldn't even entertain the thought that she felt something for Damon.

Yeah, I really liked that they addressed that.

part of the mess she is in with Stefan is because that's what Stefan did, and trying to recreate that with Damon is wrong on so many levels. Wrong because, as Damon said, he's not Stefan. Wrong because it was wrong of Stefan to pretend to be something he's not. Because he did, and that's why Elena is so ill-equipped to deal with all that is going on because she has no truth of who Stefan really is to base reality upon.

Oh, you know I am totally with you on all of this. It's so, so true.

If she's going to immerse herself in this supernatural world [...] she needs to understand the reality of it. That is something that she and Stefan never really did.

Yeah, and I love that this is starting to happen as she a) grows up and b) with Damon.

With that said, I'm also REALLY glad that Damon is taking off.

Me too, for all the reasons you stated.

Without any positive feedback, but only judgment, negativity and, yeah, the girl he loves lying to herself and him about her feelings, it's perfectly logical that he'd have those setbacks.

Yeah, I agree. Stuff like that is going to have an impact, especially to someone like Damon, given the specific issues he has.

I know Ric was trying to protect Elena, but he simply assumed the worst of Damon in the situation, and he was wrong. [...] and yet because Elena has feelings for Damon that she can't disguise, Alaric is blaming Damon.

Which aside from being unfair on Damon, doesn't even actually help Elena or address the real issue, not really. It's Elena he should've been talking to, not Damon. Also, for some reason I didn't even think of the parallel to Jenna's reaction to the 1.22 kiss, so I'm really glad that you pointed it out!

And agreeing to go with Katherine makes perfect psychological sense.

Snipped it for length, but totally agree with your thoughts on that! :D

And since, as far as we last saw, he's over her, it's a safe risk for him.

Yeah, it's actually a really interesting sign of how far he has come, I think. Katherine was once capable of having such an earth shattering impact on him, and now it's just like: oh, a distraction? Don't mind if I do!

Another leap and missing scenes for me was Daddy Forbes. He just seemed way too calm and accepting of everything after how he acted in the last episode.

I agree, although as we've already talked about, I think/hope that comes from them planning on returning to this story and essentially trying to fake us out with the idea that the threat has passed, when really, it hasn't at all.

Speaking of, how adorable was that little pick-up twirl when they first saw each other? Squee!

VERY adorable! Aww.

I did LOVE seeing Damon and Liz interacting as friends and colleagues again. I loved, loved, loved her saying "things are okay with us" meaning ... things are okay with them. WHEE!!!

I continue to love them together SO MUCH. Their friendship delights me and I wish we could have more scenes of them just interacting like they did here.
Arabian: Damon&Liz01arabian on October 13th, 2011 11:39 pm (UTC)
Re: Part 2!
Yeah, I can get it to make sense for me (because I think it was very tied up in her own current issues, and even that aside, I could see her old issues with Damon suddenly coming back up as D/E get closer) but it was again one of those things where I felt like I (rather than the writer) had to do some of the work, which really shouldn't be the case.

Pretty much that exactly.

Which aside from being unfair on Damon, doesn't even actually help Elena or address the real issue, not really. It's Elena he should've been talking to, not Damon. Also, for some reason I didn't even think of the parallel to Jenna's reaction to the 1.22 kiss, so I'm really glad that you pointed it out!

YES!!!!!!! This was on ELENA, not Damon. Alaric really handled this so very, very badly.

Yeah, it's actually a really interesting sign of how far he has come, I think. Katherine was once capable of having such an earth shattering impact on him, and now it's just like: oh, a distraction? Don't mind if I do!

Hee!

Re: Bill -- think/hope that comes from them planning on returning to this story and essentially trying to fake us out with the idea that the threat has passed, when really, it hasn't at all.

Yup. I can't believe they would have hired someone who has a bit of a name (especially in fantasy TV circles) just for this mini-arc. Gotta be more coming.

Re: Liz/Damon - I continue to love them together SO MUCH. Their friendship delights me and I wish we could have more scenes of them just interacting like they did here.

I pretty much could have written this word for word. :)
distant_autumn: Damon - shadowed by imaginary_livesdistant_autumn on October 13th, 2011 04:57 pm (UTC)
Part 3
- Okay, so there has to be something more to the fact that Bill can't be compelled beyond 'mind over matter' right?

I'm definitely assuming so. However, having read your other post about Stefan being compelled, the slight possibility has since occured to me that they might've had this happen with Bill to make the point that it is possible to resist. Not necessarily in the sense that Stefan should be able to resist it now, but that maybe later on, they're eventually going to have Stefan be able to break through the compulsion and flip the switch back? IDK, just throwing some cracky spec out there.

I was surprised that Gloria was doing such awful things to Stefan because I didn't get the impression that she was doing it for good reasons.

I'm kinda on the fence about that. All we really found out was that she wanted that talisman and that she didn't want to help Klaus, so it's possible she wanted it for good (or at least not actively bad) reasons and just didn't care about hurting his 'sidekick' in the process.

Heh. Damon banging his head on the door when realizing it was Katherine was funny.

Ha, I know. Him doing that while she just smirked away was so great. Honestly, I get such a kick out of their interaction.

Also funny? Damon's response that he knew it was an old Gilbert family recipe and their chili was always sucky.

I loved that! Both because it was funny and because I do enjoy these references to him having been around for a while. He's not pretending to be a twentysomething human.

Speaking of ... whoah, who were all those other people at the Founder's back room meeting?

IKR? Where did THEY come from? I wonder if they're going to explore who some of those people are, now that Ric's joining in?

Finally, so does Carol know that Damon is a vampire or not?

I think she does? I kinda got that vibe, but they did leave it ambiguous.
Arabian: Damon & Elena14arabian on October 13th, 2011 11:42 pm (UTC)
Re: Part 3
I'm definitely assuming so. However, having read your other post about Stefan being compelled, the slight possibility has since occured to me that they might've had this happen with Bill to make the point that it is possible to resist. Not necessarily in the sense that Stefan should be able to resist it now, but that maybe later on, they're eventually going to have Stefan be able to break through the compulsion and flip the switch back? IDK, just throwing some cracky spec out there.

OMG! That is AWESOME cracky spec. I love it!

All we really found out was that she wanted that talisman and that she didn't want to help Klaus, so it's possible she wanted it for good (or at least not actively bad) reasons and just didn't care about hurting his 'sidekick' in the process.

Hah! See, even *I* am so programmed to automatically think of Stefan as the good guy, no wonder Elena, Caroline, Bonnie, et al. do as well and they haven't seen even a 10th of what we have!

Both because it was funny and because I do enjoy these references to him having been around for a while. He's not pretending to be a twentysomething human.

And they've really been layering the Damon/Elena scenes this season with that stuff -- yet more (subtle) clues that Damon doesn't pretend with her. What they have is 100% completely real.

Re: Carol knowing about Damon -- I think she does? I kinda got that vibe, but they did leave it ambiguous.

Yeah, I know, right.
Re: Part 3 - distant_autumn on October 14th, 2011 12:30 am (UTC) (Expand)