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25 June 2011 @ 01:02 am
'The Vampire Diaries' Season 02 Rewatch Thoughts :)  
So, I just finished my rewatch of season two of The Vampire Diaries, and I haz some thoughts.

First off, I thought it would be fun to list my order of ep faves based on my first watch throughout the season, compared to my rewatch list. There is DEFINITELY a difference.

Pre-rewatch

01. The Return
02. Masquerade
03. The Sun Also Rises
04. Daddy Issues
05. As I Lay Dying
06. The House Guest
07. The Sacrifice
08. Know Thy Enemy
09. Plan B
10. Katerina
11. Kill or Be Killed
12. Klaus
13. The Descent
14. The Dinner Party
15. Rose
16. The Last Dance
17. The Last Day
18. Memory Lane
19. Bad Moon Rising
20. Brave New World
21. Crying Wolf
22. By the Light of the Moon

Post-rewatch

01. The Return =
02. The Sun Also Rises >
03. As I Lay Dying >
04. Masquerade <
05. The House Guest >
06. The Sacrifice >
07. Daddy Issues <
08. Kill or Be Killed >
09. Katerina >
10. The Last Dance >
11. Plan B <
12. Know Thy Enemy <
13. By the Light of the Moon >
14. Memory Lane >
15. Brave New World >
16. Klaus <
17. Bad Moon Rising >
18. Rose <
19. The Descent <
20. The Dinner Party <
21. The Last Day <
22. Crying Wolf <

Now, here I'll explain the movement of some of these and their placement. The biggest surprise for me was the huge improvement that "By the Light of the Moon" had from the initial watch which let down all expectations from the previous episode and was the last new episode for six weeks to how much better it played all-around in just about every way without having any expectations and going straight into the next episode. As for the rest, well, there were some episodes that would have placed higher were it not for one aspect -- Stefan and Elena. I am sorry, but this season effectively killed any tolerance, let alone like, I once had for the couple.

For example, their selfish stupidity in "Crying Wolf" weighed against what was good in the episode (basically everything except for Stefan and Elena) just knocked that episode really, really, really far down on the totem pole to the very bottom. I mean, come on. Going away during the whole mess of everything was a huge part of how bad things got. Damon wouldn't have been taken down if Stefan had been there to help ward the weres off, and Stefan and Elena wouldn't have been in the danger they were because they would have been surrounded by their family and friends and their combined strengths.

With "The Last Day," it was the same thing: The utter and complete stupidity of Stefan and Elena. The sacrifice is going down. Klaus is in town. SHIT IS GOING DOWN! And Stefan takes Elena to look at waterfalls. I mean, really!??!?! This is one of the rare cases that while, yes, it was totally Klaus (and Katherine)'s bad in the end, JENNA WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN VAMPED AND STAKED had Stefan and Elena not decided to go and look at fucking waterfalls ... ON THE DAY OF THE SACRIFICE. I mean, come the fuck on! It was only because of how freakin' awesome everything else was in this episode that "The Last Day" is not last on the list. As it is, I can barely stand to watch the Stefan/Elena scenes because their stupidity infuriates me. I get that Plec/Williamson wanted that anti-Bella, Elena choosing herself moment. I get it; it was awesome, Nina Dobrev delivered the hell out of it. But you know what? That scene would have worked just as well on the beautiful Salvatore patio, or even in Stefan's bedroom. Really, the setting wasn't what made the scene work, it was the words spoken and the acting. So, so, so, soooooooooo stupid, and one of the few times I blame the writers for making the characters stupid as opposed to it being in character stupid (ala "Crying Wolf"). However, the rest of the episode was so incredibly strong that I just couldn't put it at the very bottom of the list.

As for "The Dinner Party," this is so far down the list because of one-half of the pairing, and it saddens me to see it so near the bottom because the other half of that pairing was fucking awesome. The awesome? Elena Fucking Gilbert. Not so much? Stefan Kill-Me-Now Salvatore. I love Stefan; I genuinely, totally do. He is my fourth favorite character and it honestly jumps between him and Caroline based on the episode. I love him, I love him, I love him. Except in "The Dinner Party." This is the only episode that I actively disliked Stefan. He was a self-righteous, holier-than-thou, sanctimonious, annoying idiot, in my not so humble opinion. I did not like him. And any episode that made me thoroughly dislike one of my favorite characters just can not be high on my list of favorite episodes at all. I never want to watch another episode of The Vampire Diaries and tell Stefan disgustedly to shut up. I love him too much, and it hurts to do so, but the words kept coming while watching this one again. Grr. Why it's not lower is because of the awesome of Elena, and well, every other moment of the episode.

"The Descent" is so low on the list because, honestly, for me, other than the Rose/Damon dream scene and the final scene with Damon, it was a fairly subpar episode. Had we not had the stupid, stupid Stefan/Elena stuff in the others and the douchebaggery Stefan in the third, this easily would have been my least favorite. I didn't buy Damon's concern for Rose. I think that Lauren Cohan is not a very good actress. I'm peeved that after a half-season of Elena's anger at Damon, we got a casual "I'm your friend" and Damon's easy acceptance of that statement with no kind of major moment between them before that. Stefan was a douche to Alaric. Oh, and he made a phone call. Jules was an annoying character until her return several episodes later. Yeah, again, other than those two scenes -- especially the last one, just not a strong episode for me at all. And I hate saying that because that final scene was Ian Somerhalder's best acting to date. He was utterly magnificent, but so much of the rest of the episode just was not up to his level of excellence (or the show's normal standard).

Then there is "Klaus." The first time I watched it, I had issues with Damon and his interaction with Stefan, and Andie at the end of the episode. I rewatched it the weekend after it aired, read a Julie Plec thingie where she pretty much explained that Damon not killing Andie was that moment I'd predicted would come for him that would prove he'd changed. Ie, he killed Jeremy in the premiere, didn't care until after, killed Jessica in "The Descent" and was miserable during the whole ordeal, and I speculated that a time would come when he would be pushed to the brink, be about to kill again, but make the choice not to. That's what happened here. So after that, I wrote a much more glowing review of the episode. The problem and why it dropped four spots on the list now? The second rewatch gave me the exact same issues I had the first watch prior to my first rewatch/Plec's quote.

There was this big deal about Stefan saying Damon was in love with Elena. I don't get it. In "Rose," Stefan said it (sure, in the form of a question, but he still said it). Isobel said it in "Isobel," everyone and their dog knew that Damon was in love with Elena. It wasn't some big surprise, and I just ... the fact that I had to reach and really try and figure out why Damon was all pissy is just so unlike this show. You get it, you get the characters, you get their motivations without reaching. Not in this one. Not for me. But, damn, if the flashbacks and every Elijah scene isn't pure gold, and boy, oh boy, did this episode make me fall hard for Elijah/Katherine. But yeah, for the only time in the series, it was the mis-writing of Damon that hurt this episode for me.

"Brave New World" which slightly underwhelmed upon first watch coming off of the still-stupendous premiere ("The Return") was much, much better, but, damn, that final scene was not only beyond cheesy, the CGI/leap/whatever that Stefan did with Elena onto the ferris wheel was so incredibly bad it completely took me out of the episode. And, frankly, the rest of the season was so damn good, that whatever small issues the other episodes had, none were as glaring and obvious as that horrible, horrible moment. So very bad.

"Daddy Issues" dropped a bit. Not because it wasn't still a very strong episode, because it remains incredibly kick-ass, it's just that a few episodes later (namely the final two) were so magnificent, and a few other episodes held up better than I expected. There's nothing to ding "Daddy Issues" about, some others were just better.

The only other episode that didn't really hold up as well was "Know Thy Enemy." And this was still an incredibly strong episode. (See its placement at #12.) I just think that it, like "The Descent," being the first episode back after a hiatus made it come across as better than it was when compared with others. I was just so damn happy to have my show back that I was on high-squee alert. I remember being giddy and all woohoo! about this one when it aired. Hmm, thinking on it now, I should have realized just how disappointing "The Descent" was since I wasn't all gung-ho about that even after a six-week hiatus.

On the other end of the spectrum, boy, oh, boy, did "By the Light of the Moon" improve upon a rewatch and sandwiched nicely within the other episodes with no expectations. It really was a strong, solid episode with strong performances. Everyone was in character, and the issues I had with it the first go-round were all gone. Again, no expectations, straight into the next episode and how so much in it offered foreshadowing of what was to come was actually pretty durn brilliant in hindsight.

"The Last Dance" played out much, much better without all of the build-up that pre-airing reviews gave it. It was incredibly strong and I'm glad that I was able to enjoy it for how awesome it was the second go-round. Bonnie kicked so much ass; damn, I loved her (and her and Jeremy) sooooooo much in this episode.

The three episodes that played better upon rewatch were "As I Lay Dying," "The House Guest" and "The Sacrifice." Now I loved, loved, loved all three very much upon first viewing, but based on that first watch, I preferred others over them. Whatever quibbles I had with the finale, the only one that remained was Elijah and Stefan casually entering Alaric's apartment. Everything else was pretty much fantastic, and the teeny issues just didn't matter. I thought less of "The Sacrifice" as time passed because I genuinely thought the fact that it was easily the heaviest and best Damon/Elena episode we'd had all season colored my viewpoint. But no, it really was an incredibly strong episode all-around.

Finally, "The House Guest." I know there's only one spot difference between its original placement, but that one spot was pretty significant considering it jumped ahead of "Daddy Issues" -- one that I was originally warring with for the number three spot. I did love it when it aired, but I REALLY loved it upon rewatch. Like "The Sacrifice," I thought my love of one particular aspect had raised it in my estimation (namely the awesome on-screen interaction of Ian Somerhalder and Nina Dobrev, this time as Damon and Katherine). But nope, I pretty much loved every single solitary second. This episode KICKED ASS! Only the uber-awesome, near-perfection of "The Return, "The Sun Also Rises," "As I Lay Dying" and "Masquerade" outdid it. And considering how unbelievably awesome I thought those four episodes were, that's pretty impressive. So, go "The House Guest." As great as the rest of the season (mostly) was, my top five were in a special realm of awesome.

Alrighty then, some random thoughts.

- I can not believe that people who actually watch this show still don't give Nina Dobrev her due. For the most part, Elena and Katherine genuinely feel as if they are played by two different actresses. She varies her stance, her tone of voice, her facial expressions, her body movements, the way she walks between the two characters. It is incredible. She really has done an outstanding job.

- I don't even care. People can grouse all they want about Ian Somerhalder's eyebrow/wide eyes acting. I DON'T CARE. It works; it fits Damon, I have no problem with it. He continues to be a marvelous revelation in this role. The guy can take the most mundane of lines, hell, a single word ("Lie" in "The House Guest") and make it zing. Or break your heart. Or crack you up. He. Is. Fucking. Amazing. And I love him. Period.

- On the other end, yeah, Zach Roerig is so very much the weakest member of this cast. Sorry. I was just not impressed with much of his "angsty" acting. If we had to lose someone, I would have much preferred he went bye-bye over the luminous, underused Sara Canning.

- The make-up and hair departments on this show SUCK ASS! Ian Somerhalder is one of THE most beautiful male specimens on the planet, yet, half the time he does not even remotely look as hot as he is. Why? I don't know. I can only imagine that the above named departments have decided to test their skills and see if it's possible to ugly him up. It's not. He's still hot. But they damn well are trying their damndest. The hair on almost all characters have way more bad days than fictional television characters should have. The guy-liner on Alaric (oh, Alaric), Damon and Stefan is RIDICULOUS! The fake eyelashes on Elena paired with her muted make-up, unchanging hairstyle and muted, unchanging wardrobe* is ridiculous paired with zzzzzzzzzzzz. Please, show, hire new people. Pretty please.

* Okay, fine, Elena's wardrobe we can blame on the wardrobe department. She's the only one whose fashion I can complain about; everyone else dresses pretty dang well. Still, her boring and redundant wardrobe is so very lame and very worthy of complaint.

- Jeremy and Bonnie are FREAKING ADORABLE! Rewatching their little love story play out without breaks and weeks in between is just like the cutest thing ever. My gosh, they are sunshine and rainbows and puppies and I just want to squish them and squee! And I take back my complaint about their first big kiss; it was hot and well-done. I love them, I love them, I love them. They are full of squee!

- I also love Caroline and Stefan. When we have them. Because there is so little, I am able to put aside my uber-love for them and enjoy the moments with Caroline and Matt, and Caroline and Tyler. And doing the rewatch, I found that romantically-speaking, I actually was more entranced by the Caroline/Matt stuff than any Caroline/Tyler stuff. The "Eternal Flame" serenade and stage kiss made me all giddy. But Stefan and Caroline? Oh boy. That bathroom scene in "Brave New World," all of their scenes in "Bad Moon Rising," "Katerina" and especially -- most, most especially -- "Daddy Issues" nearly made me swoon. Paul Wesley and Candice Accola have TO DIE FOR chemistry and if the show never takes advantage of it, I will weep copious tears of regret. (Okay, not really, but I'll be feeling the pain.)

- Stefan really sucks at peace talks. Everyone gives him credit for being so great at it (except for Damon), but he really, really sucks at it. There were at least four separate occasions where Stefan went off to broker a peace ... and he failed MISERABLY all four times. Sorry, Stef, I still love you.

- What really sucked as a Damon fan this season was realizing upon rewatch that he literally, LITERALLY, did not have one single, solitary second of happiness all season long. Not one. Sure there were the fake happy moments, but they were, you know, fake and put-upon with sarcasm. The four closest moments were when:
    1) He thought Elena was running toward him with joy after he (and Stefan, hah) rescued her in "Rose." The keyword is "thought." Of course, she was running towards Stefan and Damon's happiness was ground to shattered dust a few seconds later.

    2) He rejected Katherine in "The House Guest," but that was bittersweet.

    3) Elena being alive and not a vampire in "The Sun Also Rises," but that was leavened by (a) she was still pissed at him and (b) Jenna's death.

    4) In "As I Lay Dying" with Elena on his deathbed. Lest you missed why the latter didn't count ... he was ON HIS DEATHBED.
Seriously, every other character got moments (multiple ones!) of happiness, of joy. Not Damon. Nope, not a one. Screw the haters, my poor bb, Damon!

- I really love Sheriff Forbes. Haters to the left. She is awesome, and Marguerite McIntyre does a fabulous job.

- On the other hand, yeah, Lauren Cohan really was not good. Rose could have been a great character. She wasn't, and I blame that all on the actress. Normally, the casting agents are so ON with this show, but I think they really dropped the ball with her and Luka (Bryton James, Mr. Anti-charisma himself). They almost made up for it with the uber-awesome of Daniel Gillies' Elijah, but Rose was a very important lever in Damon's development, so casting for her being so subpar was just not cool at all. On the other other hand, despite some issues I had with Dawn Olivieri (due to her interviews and some leakage on her part, ahem), I came away being as impressed with her take on Andie as I was initially.

- Although, I still think Andie's role was lessened due to storytelling time constraints, or the actress getting a pilot. And that was felt. I also think that the Katherine/Stefan angle was dropped to a degree as well, due to storytelling time constraints like Tyler's werewolf story was in season one. Unlike the Andie-angle though, I think this worked better because we should be able to get a fuller, richer tale out of it with the Stefan situation coming next season.

- Speaking of .. next season better really, really give us a shitload of Damon and Elena because Damon/Elena fans were really, really, REALLY gypped this season. BIG FUCKING TIME. Knowing that fact as you watch it week by week, with hiatuses and upcoming stuff that sorta highlights some of the Damon/Elena moments isn't the same as watching all twenty-two episodes over a three-day period and really having it driven home.

- With that said, I still love this show so much. It is definitely more than the couple for me. I love all the characters (okay, except Matt and Tyler, but I really, really like Tyler, and I do like Matt). I adore the acting. I uber-worship the writing and the plots and twists and relationships. It's a fantastic show and I love it so very much. So. Very. Much. Bring on season three! :D WHEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I think that's it :)
 
 
 
Diana: Vampire Diaries - Not Leaving (D/E)butterfly on June 25th, 2011 01:34 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I'm curious as to how my list will change after my in-depth rewatch of S2.

Lauren Cohen doesn't bother me like she does you.

Stefan sucks at peace talks so much.

I hope that we'll get more positive and, well, happy Damon/Elena next season, especially for Damon. This season really kinda was his 'dark night of the soul', where he had to confront himself, so now that he's accepted the parts of himself that he was hiding from, in theory that should make it so that he can have some happiness.
Arabian: Damon & Elena12arabian on June 25th, 2011 02:07 pm (UTC)
I was really surprised by my reaction to certain episodes.

Cohan bothered me, but didn't *bother* bother me until she continued to suck on another show (Chuck) and then rewatching this, gah, Rose should have just been so much more awesome considering the part she played.

so much.

So very much.

I hope that we'll get more positive and, well, happy Damon/Elena next season, especially for Damon. This season really kinda was his 'dark night of the soul', where he had to confront himself, so now that he's accepted the parts of himself that he was hiding from, in theory that should make it so that he can have some happiness.

Ditto, cuz boy (and his fans) DEFINITELY deserve it. :)
Alisha: TVD (Caroline/Stefan) Lightkalishaka on June 25th, 2011 07:03 pm (UTC)
Thank you for reminding me once again how much I suck. Off to begin to finally watch the second half of season 2. Also, I know I haven't even seen everything, but Nina Dobrev does one of the more fabulous jobs I have ever seen of one actor handling two characters, and easily showing a distinction between the two when they are dressed the same, and look well...the same. In fact sometimes she hits level of the awesome that is Amy Acker in Season 5 of Angel. (High praise indeed from me.) And I cannot imagine how exhausting that must be to switch between the two as often as she has been, and will likely be continuing to do. It's a huge undertaking for a young actress over such a long run, and she deserves a lot of credit for it.
Arabian: Stefan & Caroline04arabian on June 25th, 2011 08:07 pm (UTC)
Squee! Stefan and Caroline!

You do have to get on that. And, yes, Nina has done an OUTSTANDING job. She really, really has. :)
Alisha: TVD (Caroline/Stefan) Lightkalishaka on June 25th, 2011 09:08 pm (UTC)
Just finished Daddy Issues. Insane rambles on it and The Descent are now on my journal.
Arabian: Damon06arabian on June 25th, 2011 10:09 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I went into deep, deep detail on my LJ about them.
bluesuzannebluesuzanne on June 26th, 2011 07:03 am (UTC)
Awesome post, I love reading people's in depth thoughts about the show.

I feel the same about Lauren... I really think the entire Rose story arc could have had more impact on me if she'd been a better actor. I did think the dream was beautiful, but overall it was all a bit flat and lifeless for me. It's better in my imagination!

The dropping of the Kat/Stefan arc is one of the biggest problems I have with s2 and I really hope it the whole "It's okay to love them both - I did" remark isn't supposed to be closing the book on the whole "It was always Stefan" thing. If that turns out to be what - a lie? A joke? A manipulation? Something we shove under the carpet? I'm going to be really annoyed.

Out of curiosity what tomfoolery did Olivieri get up to?
Arabian: DiannaAgron01arabian on June 26th, 2011 10:31 pm (UTC)
Yeah, the Rose arc should have been incredibly strong not just because of Damon/Ian. Rose needed to work to really sell it. And Lauren Cohan didn't.

The dropping of the Kat/Stefan arc is one of the biggest problems I have with s2 and I really hope it the whole "It's okay to love them both - I did" remark isn't supposed to be closing the book on the whole "It was always Stefan" thing. If that turns out to be what - a lie? A joke? A manipulation? Something we shove under the carpet? I'm going to be really annoyed.

See, it didn't bother me because it was pretty obvious that it's something they are pursuing and with all that happened in the second half it just as clearly pushed to be explored more fully in the next season. Had they just dropped it, I would have been annoyed, but to me they didn't. We continued to get hints and signs of it all the way to the end, therefore, to me not dropped since they knew more of the show was coming.

Out of curiosity what tomfoolery did Olivieri get up to?

A page of the ep 19 script leaked that included Jenna and Elena talking about all the secrets, ie, JENNA FOUND OUT! And the script had Olivieri's name all over it. Her "denial" on twitter was that it was a fake ... but that didn't work because (a) we've already seen what scripts look like with the actor's names on them (thanks to Ian) and this script with her name was identically marked, (b) Julie Plec tweeted earlier pissed about the person who leaked it, and most obviously (c) the scene aired as written in that supposedly "fake" script page.

Plus, her interviews where she kept trying to make "Dandie" happen just annoyed the hell out of me. It's like, know your place on the show, don't be trying to piss off the (already-pissed off because of the shitting upon) show's biggest fanbase. It was just annoying.

bluesuzannebluesuzanne on June 26th, 2011 07:05 am (UTC)
Oh and I agree SO HARD on Nina Dobrev. She deserves all the kudos. In the world.

And I also agree completely re: Ian. I don't understand people's issue with "the eye thing". I think it works perfectly and has never been distracting or bothersome to me. Far from it - those are the quirks that make the character come to life for me.
Arabian: Quinn01arabian on June 26th, 2011 10:33 pm (UTC)
Nina really does; and then I hear haters calling her basic and a lousy actress and I want to spork their eyes out, LOL!

Ian as Damon is perfection. Period.
sassy, classy, and a bit smart-assybadboy_fangirl on June 27th, 2011 02:53 am (UTC)
Okay, this is completely unrelated to this post, but I thought, given our earlier conversation and all the details you had in your miraculous brain, you might be able to help me re: Ian and Nina and the flying to Paris for date thing. Do you remember the two articles where they both reference that and where might I peruse them?

Edited at 2011-06-27 02:54 am (UTC)
Arabian: Ian & Nina15arabian on June 27th, 2011 03:19 am (UTC)
I know Nina's was from Flare magazine, the Ian thing I'm not sure, but it wasn't Ian and Nina. Based on further comment on that bit in another interview thingie, Ian commented how that didn't work out and obviously he and Nina are working out. She just mentioned (in the Flare online portion of the interview) that a guy flew out for dinner for her (which we think was probably the Emmys now), but it wasn't the Paris thing that Ian mentioned.
Sarpaceisthetrick on June 27th, 2011 03:59 am (UTC)
It kinda sucks that Katherine looks 10000000x better than Elena, pretty much always. :(
Arabian: NinaDobrev04arabian on July 3rd, 2011 09:59 pm (UTC)
Better make-up, better hair, and MUCH better wardrobe. Why, oh why, did the show decide to make Elena look so drab? Ugh. Fortunately, Nina is gorgeous enough to pull it off, but it's still annoying. :(
distant_autumn: Caroline - woods by lipglossingdistant_autumn on June 27th, 2011 07:20 am (UTC)
Yay, S2 thoughts.

Re: S2 and S/E, I hear you. I am normally fine with if not particularly interested in S/E (though obviously I adore both characters invidually) but the end of S2 just decimated my tolerence of them as a couple. Not just that, it's like it retroactively gave me impatience with every freaking break-up and ~lets pretend to be normal~. NO. STOP. Stop enabling each other with this stuff. I understand the impulse, truly I do, but they are not normal and pretending to be so in their world only puts them and others at risk. And if you're breaking up that often (bearing in mind the compressed time period of the show) then maybe it's not just external factors but your actual relationship that's at least part of the problem. At this point, it feels like M/C to me; very important for both characters at the time, but now well into the "holding both characters back" territory.

The waterfall walk I just cannot even deal with. I love love love them both, but I have no clue what they are thinking that entire episode, starting with: "Then I guess I'll just be dead." Stefan: *Shrugs*. WHAT. WHAT WHAT WHAT. I love them, I do, but oh.my.god. I feel like MY eyes are popping out of my skull just thinking about it. It probably says horrible things about me, but over the line as it obviously was, Damon trying to turn her? I totally get as a reaction. Whereas shrugging over the death of the person you love, or disappearing off for a nature walk while shit is going down? That just boggles the hell out of me.

The Dinner Party I suspect I will like a lot more now the season finale has happened. Some of the things that bugged me about it (like, oh say, some of Stefan's characterisation) I feel a lot lot better about now I suspect it was intentionally done rather than the writers just not realising how he came across. Or, you know. I could rewatch and have the exact same problems with it I did the first time, we shall see, heh.

I'm peeved that after a half-season of Elena's anger at Damon, we got a casual "I'm your friend" and Damon's easy acceptance of that statement with no kind of major moment between them before that.

See, I don't really disagree with your point. But I love that scene between them so damn much, I really do, that I forgive the writers for it.

that final scene was Ian Somerhalder's best acting to date.

I cannot even believe he did that while sick with pneumonia! Seriously well done.

Then there is "Klaus." The first time I watched it, I had issues with Damon and his interaction with Stefan, and Andie at the end of the episode. I rewatched it the weekend after it aired, read a Julie Plec thingie where she pretty much explained that Damon not killing Andie was that moment I'd predicted would come for him that would prove he'd changed.

I'm pretty sure I'm still gonna have issues with it, even though I agree with what both you and Julie have said re: what it means for Damon's characterisation. I just feel like I'm missing some scenes or an entire episode or SOMETHING to get me both to the Damon/Stefan stuff and especially to the end with Andie. IDK. I completely bought him snapping and killing Jeremy, the same with Jessica, and thought both those scenes as well as the build up to them were phenomenally well done. But with Andie, I mainly just find it frustrating that it doesn't really work for me anywhere near as well as I wished it did, or as well as it could've/should've done. Same with him and Stefan. I can't quite describe it, it just suddenly feels like things they've been building towards characterisation-wise suddenly gets turned up to 11 and I'm left there, like "...wait, what? Did I pass out for ten minutes and miss something?" OTOH, it IS the episode that gives us Katherine having a dance party, so I forbear.

I also have some pretty major srs bsns issues with the last scene with Andie, which probably doesn't help my feelings on it, but I digress.

It wasn't some big surprise, and I just ... the fact that I had to reach and really try and figure out why Damon was all pissy is just so unlike this show. You get it, you get the characters, you get their motivations without reaching. Not in this one.

THIS.
distant_autumn: Damon - shadowed by imaginary_livesdistant_autumn on June 27th, 2011 07:32 am (UTC)
Part 2
the CGI/leap/whatever that Stefan did with Elena onto the ferris wheel was so incredibly bad

Hee, It's true, it was bad. I just focused in on the caution: do not rock sign on their seat and was childishly happy about the "so not gonna last as a couple" anvil I did and do take it to be.

"The Last Dance" played out much, much better without all of the build-up that pre-airing reviews gave it. It was incredibly strong and I'm glad that I was able to enjoy it for how awesome it was the second go-round. Bonnie kicked so much ass; damn, I loved her (and her and Jeremy) sooooooo much in this episode.

Honestly one of my absolute favourite episodes of the season. And I'm not sure I've ever loved Bonnie more, and she has ALWAYS been one of my favourites.

the only one that remained was Elijah and Stefan casually entering Alaric's apartment.

Yeah, I was trying to make that one work, especially after Kevin tweeted asking why people thought they could get in, in a way that implied there might actually be a deliberate reason. I was thinking, hmm, maybe it was Alaric having died that allowed it, and Damon and Andie just assumed he wouldn't be able to get in in 'Klaus'. But I went back and checked and it really did look like Damon tested it and couldn't get in back then, so for now, it remains a screw up to me.

Loved both The Sacrifice and The House Guest, but like you I wondered how much of that was down to my shipping bias, so I'm glad to hear they hold up. Gah, I really want to do a rewatch of my own soon.

I can not believe that people who actually watch this show still don't give Nina Dobrev her due.

God, I KNOW. Worse than that, I can't believe that there are people who think she sucks. What is wrong with people? She is fantastic and only seems to be getting even better. Love her.

I don't even care. People can grouse all they want about Ian Somerhalder's eyebrow/wide eyes acting. I DON'T CARE. It works; it fits Damon, I have no problem with it. He continues to be a marvelous revelation in this role.

Agreed so damn much. I am so over the ~backlash~ I cannot even. He's awesome.


- On the other end, yeah, Zach Roerig is so very much the weakest member of this cast. Sorry. I was just not impressed with much of his "angsty" acting. If we had to lose someone, I would have much preferred he went bye-bye over the luminous, underused Sara Canning.

Yeah, I'd agree with all of that. (And that aside, the gender (in)balance of the regulars is officially bugging me. It started off being 5 men and 5 women, and we're now at, what, 7 men to 3 women? C'mon.)

The make-up and hair departments on this show SUCK ASS!

Ha, I am beginning to suspect I'm the only weirdo in the entire fandom who more often than not likes what they do with hair and make-up. See also: my love of Nina's real life dress sense. Everybody else is like "Did she get dressed in the dark? In 1997?" And I'm like "... Oh. I thought it was awesome and would totally wear that." [/Forever uncool]

But Stefan and Caroline? Oh boy. That bathroom scene in "Brave New World," all of their scenes in "Bad Moon Rising," "Katerina" and especially -- most, most especially -- "Daddy Issues" nearly made me swoon. Paul Wesley and Candice Accola have TO DIE FOR chemistry and if the show never takes advantage of it, I will weep copious tears of regret.

I am coming over to the dark S/C side of things so much lately. The other day I found a photo of him carrying her to safety in S1 (after Logan kidnapped her) and flailed like crazy. At the very least we must get lots of friendshippy stuff between them. MUST.

Stefan really sucks at peace talks. Everyone gives him credit for being so great at it (except for Damon), but he really, really sucks at it. There were at least four separate occasions where Stefan went off to broker a peace ... and he failed MISERABLY all four times. Sorry, Stef, I still love you.

I LOVE how utterly atrocious he is at it, bless him. Like, it actively makes me love him more than ever. He does stuff like threaten Tyler and throw him around to try and achieve peace and it's like... Stefan. Honey. How did you think that was going to work?
distant_autumn: Elena - What? by imaginary_livesdistant_autumn on June 27th, 2011 07:42 am (UTC)
Part 3 (omg why am I so wordy?)
What really sucked as a Damon fan this season was realizing upon rewatch that he literally, LITERALLY, did not have one single, solitary second of happiness all season long. Not one. Sure there were the fake happy moments, but they were, you know, fake and put-upon with sarcasm.

Aww, I think he was happy during his dance with Elena, shadow of Klaus hanging overhead or not. But yeah, that was pretty much it. And I mean, I know some of it is his own fault, I really do, but all the bloody same. [/Joins in the poor babying]

I really love Sheriff Forbes. Haters to the left. She is awesome, and Marguerite McIntyre does a fabulous job.

Me too! Love her and am so excited to see more of her next season. I can't wait to see what happens next with her and the Mayor and Caroline and Damon.

Lauren Cohan really was not good. Rose could have been a great character. She wasn't, and I blame that all on the actress.

:( :( :( I know. And I loved Lauren so damn much on Supernatural. I just don't even know what happened. Still so disappointed. I'm hoping on rewatch Rose'll work better for me, without the high expectations I had for her based on the original character description and on previously having been impressed with Lauren, but I'm not convinced that'll be the case. OTOH, I continue my unpopular opinioning by having actually quite liked Luka. IDK, IDK. I truly thought he and Bonnie had chemistry and kind of wish we'd seen a bit more exploration of him and his conflicted loyalties before he inevitably died.

despite some issues I had with Dawn Olivieri (due to her interviews and some leakage on her part, ahem), I came away being as impressed with her take on Andie as I was initially.

Ooh, can I be nosy and ask what your interview issues were with her? I honestly liked the ones I saw/read with her. Agreed that it felt like Andie's story got curtailed for whatever reason.

I also think that the Katherine/Stefan angle was dropped to a degree as well, due to storytelling time constraints like Tyler's werewolf story was in season one.

I'm honestly not sure if it was time constraints or them deliberately dropping it so they could finally dive into it once Stefan fell off the wagon, but either way, agreed that it seems likely to pay off big time next season. And as it happened, we ended up with a load of interesting Katherine solo stuff and some awesome exploration of the Katherine/Damon dynamic, so now that I feel confident they ARE going to go back and deal with the S/K messiness, I'm cool with it.

I love all the characters (okay, except Matt and Tyler, but I really, really like Tyler, and I do like Matt). I adore the acting. I uber-worship the writing and the plots and twists and relationships. It's a fantastic show and I love it so very much. So. Very. Much. Bring on season three! :D WHEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

♥ I do love Tyler, but apart from that I am in word-for-word agreement with this. So much love!
Arabian: Elena05arabian on July 3rd, 2011 10:35 pm (UTC)
Re: Part 3 (omg why am I so wordy?)
Aww, I think he was happy during his dance with Elena, shadow of Klaus hanging overhead or not. But yeah, that was pretty much it. And I mean, I know some of it is his own fault, I really do, but all the bloody same. [/Joins in the poor babying]

Eh, I don't know because of Klaus hanging over his head, and the ever-knowledge that Elena is Stefan's. Also, in that moment of "happiness" he was trying to make Elena not be worried, thus he wasn't happy about her upset and was trying to help with that.

Me too! Love [Sheriff Forbes] and am so excited to see more of her next season. I can't wait to see what happens next with her and the Mayor and Caroline and Damon.

I know. I AM SO EXCITED!! Hopefully, no more injuries so we'll see more of her. YAY! Julie Plec loves her (she was the female lead in Julie's Kyle XY).

:( :( :( I know. And I loved Lauren so damn much on Supernatural. I just don't even know what happened. Still so disappointed. I'm hoping on rewatch Rose'll work better for me, without the high expectations I had for her based on the original character description and on previously having been impressed with Lauren, but I'm not convinced that'll be the case.

I don't think so; I already had somewhat low expectations of her prior to the rewatch and she actually was worse than I remembered. But I've only seen her not do well, so maybe it will work for you.

OTOH, I continue my unpopular opinioning by having actually quite liked Luka. IDK, IDK. I truly thought he and Bonnie had chemistry and kind of wish we'd seen a bit more exploration of him and his conflicted loyalties before he inevitably died.

Oh, I thought they had a bit of chemistry in their early scenes, but I already thought Jeremy and Bonnie were adorable then, so it annoyed me. And then James' utter anti-charisma field kicked into full force and I was just 'ugh, go away!'

Ooh, can I be nosy and ask what your interview issues were with [Dawn Olivieri]? I honestly liked the ones I saw/read with her.

In interviews beyond the first batch, she kept trying to make "Dandie" happen and it just annoyed the hell out of me. It's like, know your place on the show, don't be trying to piss off the (already-pissed off because of the shitting upon) show's biggest fanbase. It was just annoying.

I'm honestly not sure if it was time constraints or them deliberately dropping it so they could finally dive into it once Stefan fell off the wagon, but either way, agreed that it seems likely to pay off big time next season. And as it happened, we ended up with a load of interesting Katherine solo stuff and some awesome exploration of the Katherine/Damon dynamic, so now that I feel confident they ARE going to go back and deal with the S/K messiness, I'm cool with it.

I'm glad we got that too, and as I said in the response to part 1, I think it's tied into Stefan/Elena too.

Edited at 2011-07-03 10:37 pm (UTC)
distant_autumn: Bonnie - floating feathers by snaggingdistant_autumn on July 4th, 2011 06:54 pm (UTC)
Re: Part 3 (omg why am I so wordy?)
Also, in that moment of "happiness" he was trying to make Elena not be worried, thus he wasn't happy about her upset and was trying to help with that.

Aww, you're not wrong, but I'm still gonna count it, because the alternative is too depressing!

I don't think so; I already had somewhat low expectations of her prior to the rewatch and she actually was worse than I remembered.

Gah, really? Damn.

Oh, I thought they had a bit of chemistry in their early scenes, but I already thought Jeremy and Bonnie were adorable then, so it annoyed me. And then James' utter anti-charisma field kicked into full force and I was just 'ugh, go away!'

Ah, see I took ages to get on board with J/B, so I didn't mind Luka being around. I think more than anything, I liked Bonnie having someone in her life with a magic connection (even mired in betrayal as it was with Luka) and thought it generated some interesting stuff for her character. And re: Luka himself, since they put it on the table, I would've liked to see his conflicted loyalties have played out at least a little more. IDK, it's not something I feel particularly strongly about or anything, but I was okay with him.
Arabian: Jeremy & Bonnie02arabian on July 4th, 2011 07:00 pm (UTC)
Re: Part 3 (omg why am I so wordy?)
I think a rewatch will change your J/B feeling. I liked the idea in "Masquerade," thought they pushed it in "Rose" and "Katerina," but by the time "By the Light of the Moon" rolled around, I thought J/B were cute and Bonnie was still too into Luka, I was annoyed, LOL! But it did take five episodes for me to think they were really cute. With the rewatch? I basically fell head over heels in puppy love with them. SO CUTE!

Gah, really? Damn.

Yeah, her delivery was just so disconnected? I can't really think of the right word, but that's what I'm coming up with now.
distant_autumn: DE - Not Touching by vienna-blooddistant_autumn on July 4th, 2011 08:00 pm (UTC)
Re: Part 3 (omg why am I so wordy?)
Funnily enough, I've been wondering the same thing about how I'll react to J/B on rewatch and suspect you might be right! Not least because, as we've established with C/S, I am five minutes late to every party ship! (Just wait, in S5 I'll suddenly finally be like "hey, did anyone notice the hair and make-up on this show is kind of bad?" :P)
Arabian: Damon & Elena02arabian on July 4th, 2011 08:49 pm (UTC)
Re: Part 3 (omg why am I so wordy?)
LMAO!! HAH!
Arabian: Stefan & Caroline04arabian on July 3rd, 2011 10:26 pm (UTC)
FINALLY! Part 2
Honestly one of my absolute favourite episodes of the season ("The Last Dance"). And I'm not sure I've ever loved Bonnie more.

I'm actually still trying to figure out why I didn't adore it the first time around. (And yes, this show is so good that an episode I ADORE comes in at #10!) Bonnie = the epitome of awesome.

Yeah, I was trying to make that one work, especially after Kevin tweeted asking why people thought [Elijah/Stefan] could get in, in a way that implied there might actually be a deliberate reason.

With him tweeting that, I'm assuming we'll find out why next season. I hope so. I'd love to have my one remaining issue go bye-bye!

Loved both The Sacrifice and The House Guest, but like you I wondered how much of that was down to my shipping bias, so I'm glad to hear they hold up.

Boy, do they ever!

God, I KNOW (Re: People not getting Nina's awesome). Worse than that, I can't believe that there are people who think she sucks. What is wrong with people? She is fantastic and only seems to be getting even better. Love her.

I know. She is one of the best actresses on television right now in my opinion.

Agreed so damn much (Re: Ian's eye-acting). I am so over the ~backlash~ I cannot even. He's awesome.

Yup. This. :)

the gender (in)balance of the regulars is officially bugging me. It started off being 5 men and 5 women, and we're now at, what, 7 men to 3 women? C'mon.)

I should care about that as a women-rock-female, but I really just don't care about that kind of stuff. I know, I'm terrible. But, hey, I figure that Klaus will be gone season four, and hopefully Meredith will show up (I don't read the books, but I've heard of her). Heck, Matt might even be gone too. And technically, it's seven men to four women simply because Nina does play two characters and Katherine was pretty much a main character, certainly more than Matt, Jenna and even Alaric to a degree. And of the ten characters, four of the female characters are main characters, while only two of the males are main (Damon and Stefan). So there is more balance than on the surface.

Ha, I am beginning to suspect I'm the only weirdo in the entire fandom who more often than not likes what they do with hair and make-up. See also: my love of Nina's real life dress sense. Everybody else is like "Did she get dressed in the dark? In 1997?" And I'm like "... Oh. I thought it was awesome and would totally wear that." [/Forever uncool]

Ah, I've only read ONTD hating on Nina's fashion sense, for the most part I read raves everywhere but for an occasional outfit here or there. But the show's hair/make-up? You're really okay with the fake-dyed, badly-styled, guyliner-ed up Damon? Really? Compared to how inhumanly beautiful Ian Somerhalder looks in real life, I just don't know how the show can so often diminish how unbelievably gorgeous he is.

I am coming over to the dark S/C side of things so much lately.

Bout damn time! How can you resist their AMAZING chemistry! See?!






The other day I found a photo of him carrying her to safety in S1 (after Logan kidnapped her) and flailed like crazy.

*sigh* I know!

I LOVE how utterly atrocious he is at [peace talks], bless him. Like, it actively makes me love him more than ever. He does stuff like threaten Tyler and throw him around to try and achieve peace and it's like... Stefan. Honey. How did you think that was going to work?

LMAO! Yuppers! :)

Edited at 2011-07-03 10:28 pm (UTC)
distant_autumn: Bonnie - Into the woods by snaggingdistant_autumn on July 4th, 2011 06:32 pm (UTC)
Re: FINALLY! Part 2
I'm actually still trying to figure out why I didn't adore it the first time around. (And yes, this show is so good that an episode I ADORE comes in at #10!) Bonnie = the epitome of awesome.

I loved it straight off, but it did have a lot of hype surrounding it, so maybe that worked against it for you the first time around? Like, it couldn't live up to all that hype? And Bonnie is fabulous! The amount of Bonnie-hate in fandom makes me sad. HOW CAN PEOPLE NOT LOVE HER? Bonnie is made of awesome ♥!

With him tweeting that, I'm assuming we'll find out why next season. I hope so. I'd love to have my one remaining issue go bye-bye!

I hope so!

I should care about that as a women-rock-female, but I really just don't care about that kind of stuff. I know, I'm terrible. But, hey, I figure that Klaus will be gone season four, and hopefully Meredith will show up (I don't read the books, but I've heard of her). Heck, Matt might even be gone too. And technically, it's seven men to four women simply because Nina does play two characters and Katherine was pretty much a main character, certainly more than Matt, Jenna and even Alaric to a degree. And of the ten characters, four of the female characters are main characters, while only two of the males are main (Damon and Stefan). So there is more balance than on the surface.

Yeah, I actually completely agree with you that in terms of driving the story, etc. things are a LOT more balanced than the cold numbers make it look and I also agree that it's very likely going to even out over time. But the inbalance still bugs me, not specifically because it's happening on this one show (which I absolutely thinks likes, gets, and values women) but because it happens on so ridiculously many shows and the combined effect makes me cranky. So I liked that this show started out evenly balanced, and without wishing unemployment on any of the guys, do kinda wish it would return to that.


But the show's hair/make-up? You're really okay with the fake-dyed, badly-styled, guyliner-ed up Damon? Really?

...Yes? Hee. IDK, my first vampire show was BtVS and love it though I did, I'm not sure there will ever be a show with more sketchy dye-jobs and guyliner. And for that matter, no hair styling will ever bother me more than Jared Padalecki's over the course of Supernatural. But I digress. Really and sincerely, although there are definitely occasions when I do wonder WTF they have done with them all, more often than not I don't have a problem with the hair/make-up on TVD. I do realise I am basically alone in this in fandom though, so judge away, ha! :D

Bout damn time! How can you resist their AMAZING chemistry! See?!

I can't, is the answer! I am shipping them like crazy right now. And oh, god, those gifs. THEIR LITTLE FACES. I have serious hopes, romantically speaking, that we spend a season or two exploring Caroline's relationship with Tyler (which I am cool with, because I honestly love them too), and Stefan working through his Elena and Katherine issues, while the Stefan and Caroline friendship bubbles away in the background, and then during S5-6 we get full-on S/C awesomeness. (For somebody so new to shipping them, I may have already thought about this way too much.)
Arabian: Katherine05arabian on July 4th, 2011 06:51 pm (UTC)
Re: FINALLY! Part 2
I loved it straight off, but it did have a lot of hype surrounding it, so maybe that worked against it for you the first time around? Like, it couldn't live up to all that hype?

Yup, that's what I wrote in the OP: "The Last Dance" played out much, much better without all of the build-up that pre-airing reviews gave it.

And Bonnie is fabulous! The amount of Bonnie-hate in fandom makes me sad. HOW CAN PEOPLE NOT LOVE HER? Bonnie is made of awesome ♥!

I think it's a couple of different factions (Damon/Elena fans who hate on the very loud Damon/Bonnie fans, Tyler/Jeremy fans who blame Bonnie for breaking up the ho-yay -- excuse me while I roll my eyes, stupid Damon fans who give non-stupid Damon fans a bad name by hating her for -- understandably -- hating on Damon at various times). However, and I could be wrong, but honestly, I think the main reason is Kat Graham. I ADORE Bonnie, but, I can not stand Kat Graham. Now I have no problem separating actor from character but that's not the case for many. For me, just about every interview, most stuff I've read/seen/watched with her makes me roll my eyes, fills me with disdain, just, ugh, I can't stand her. (She follows and tweets back and forth lovey-dovey tweets with Perez Hilton for goodness' sake!) And I know a lot of people don't like either, and so they hold that against Bonnie.

Also, I do think she's played Bonnie a bit too cold now and then. For instance when Caroline was sad about killing Carter -- the carnival worker -- her response of "he's still dead" was so coldly delivered. It sounded like the line was coming from an enemy, as opposed to a heartbroken friend trying to deal with the fact that her childhood friend was a vampire now. However, I've always gotten what/why they are doing with Bonnie what they are, and I've adored her from eps 1.1-1.19, and then I had issues with her 1.20-2.4, before I was back onboard with loving Bonnie. And my issues were mostly with how Graham didn't play the struggle/vulnerability, I don't know well enough to justify her hating on the logical bad guys (ie, vampires), who happened to be our main characters (Damon and Stefan), and betraying our main protagonist (Elena). Just what I think, though. I could be TOTALLY wrong. I fervently would like to believe that race has nothing to do with it, and so I choose to not even acknowledge that angle. :)

BTW: Gorgeous icon of Bonnie. I just did one for "Daddy Issues" that I can't wait to post. I love it. (Still working on that before I put the ep 13 icons up.)

Yeah, I actually completely agree with you that in terms of driving the story, etc. things are a LOT more balanced than the cold numbers make it look and I also agree that it's very likely going to even out over time. But the inbalance still bugs me.

I get that, I do. The prevalence in tv (movies, etc.) is ridiculous. My dream cast of main characters at this point -- putting aside, it would suck for actors to lose their jobs -- would be Damon, Elena, Stefan, Caroline, Bonnie, Jeremy, Alaric, Elijah, Meredith, Katherine (sorry, Nina).

I do realise I am basically alone in this in fandom though, so judge away, ha! :D

I'm sorry, but yes, I am judging, bb!

I am shipping them like crazy right now. And oh, god, those gifs. THEIR LITTLE FACES. I have serious hopes, romantically speaking, that we spend a season or two exploring Caroline's relationship with Tyler (which I am cool with, because I honestly love them too), and Stefan working through his Elena and Katherine issues, while the Stefan and Caroline friendship bubbles away in the background, and then during S5-6 we get full-on S/C awesomeness. (For somebody so new to shipping them, I may have already thought about this way too much.)

Yeah, I REALLY hope that we have some great Caroline friendship stuff, and that she's important in helping to get Stefan back on the wagon. And the Stefan/Elena/Katherine, Caroline/Tyler romance/drama/issues can play out and then, yes, voila! Stefan/Caroline gooeyness!* (While I get Damon/Elena and Elijah/Katherine as well. :)

* Erm, or what you said. ;)

Edited at 2011-07-04 06:56 pm (UTC)
distant_autumn: Damon - shadowed by imaginary_livesdistant_autumn on July 4th, 2011 08:52 pm (UTC)
Re: FINALLY! Part 2
Yup, that's what I wrote in the OP: "The Last Dance" played out much, much better without all of the build-up that pre-airing reviews gave it.

Ha, whoops! I was so not joking in my last post about my brain being like soggy pudding at the moment. *facepalm*

I think the main reason is Kat Graham. I ADORE Bonnie, but, I can not stand Kat Graham. Now I have no problem separating actor from character but that's not the case for many.

I had no idea that there was any fandom tension re: Kat! Although I adore Bonnie, she's just not one of the actors I've paid any attention whatsoever to in real life, so I was oblivious to any issues. (And I share the UGH regarding Perez. Sadly, WAY too many celebs I otherwise like insist on being friendly with him. Why, I do not know, because again: UGH.)

I think it's a couple of different factions (Damon/Elena fans who hate on the very loud Damon/Bonnie fans, Tyler/Jeremy fans who blame Bonnie for breaking up the ho-yay -- excuse me while I roll my eyes, stupid Damon fans who give non-stupid Damon fans a bad name by hating her for -- understandably -- hating on Damon at various times).

Yeah, that's been my impression, to the point where now I'm pretty cynical when I see people hating on her. Like, I'm actually weirdly relieved to hear it may just be an issue with Kat for some people, because at least I can understand that as a reason!


However, I've always gotten what/why they are doing with Bonnie what they are, and I've adored her from eps 1.1-1.19, and then I had issues with her 1.20-2.4, before I was back onboard with loving Bonnie. And my issues were mostly with how Graham didn't play the struggle/vulnerability

Yeah, see, I can totally understand all of that, and in fact during I think 2.03(?), I had a similar issue with her just coming off as too cold, even though I was onboard with her character and understood what they were doing with her arc. That kind of criticism, I honestly completely get. It's all the people who have passionately hated her almost from day one and never stopped, that leave me feeling like... really?! Why? What on earth for? IDK, I just don't get it.


I fervently would like to believe that race has nothing to do with it, and so I choose to not even acknowledge that angle. :)

I think it unfortunately probably plays a bit of a part, to be honest. I certainly don't think most of the people who have an issue with Bonnie have issues because of that (not least because I have great faith in fandom's ability to be way nuttier over character wars and ship wars than for any other reason). But I suspect race combined with gender does play a subconscious part with some people. We live in an imperfect world, it's gonna happen.


My dream cast of main characters at this point -- putting aside, it would suck for actors to lose their jobs -- would be Damon, Elena, Stefan, Caroline, Bonnie, Jeremy, Alaric, Elijah, Meredith, Katherine (sorry, Nina).

I would, if forced, sacrifice Jeremy or Elijah (sorry, BB!) to keep Tyler, but apart from that, me too :) I would also like it if one or both of Anna or Vicki stuck around, but I'm guessing that's not likely to happen in the long term!


Yeah, I REALLY hope that we have some great Caroline friendship stuff, and that she's important in helping to get Stefan back on the wagon. And the Stefan/Elena/Katherine, Caroline/Tyler romance/drama/issues can play out and then, yes, voila! Stefan/Caroline gooeyness!* (While I get Damon/Elena and Elijah/Katherine as well. :)

I SO want Caroline to be involved in saving him. It would make such a great reversal of him helping her in early S2. And yeah, above all things, D/E have got to end up together, otherwise my little heart will be broken. (Oh, I am so not joking.)
Arabian: Caroline03arabian on July 3rd, 2011 10:07 pm (UTC)
FINALLY!
Re: S2 and S/E

Yes, exactly. However, I came upon something in my brain that made me feel better. I've been saying that I think the Stefan/Katherine stuff was postponed till next season because too much stuff was happening. And, duh!, thus the problems with Stefan/Elena -- no doubt CAUSED by the Stefan/katherine stuff -- were postponed as well. And if this is true -- and really it's the only thing that makes sense -- it means that the only story the writers had planned for Stefan/Elena was the beginning of their demise. Works for me! :D

The waterfall walk I just cannot even deal with. I love love love them both, but I have no clue what they are thinking that entire episode, starting with: "Then I guess I'll just be dead." Stefan: *Shrugs*. WHAT. WHAT WHAT WHAT. I love them, I do, but oh.my.god. I feel like MY eyes are popping out of my skull just thinking about it.

YES!!!!!!!!! Almost every moment with them in that episode just mind-boggled. And matching them, Stefan letting her go with Klaus without even a hint of a fight. SERIOUSLY!?!?!???!?!?

It probably says horrible things about me, but over the line as it obviously was, Damon trying to turn her? I totally get as a reaction. Whereas shrugging over the death of the person you love, or disappearing off for a nature walk while shit is going down? That just boggles the hell out of me.

This.

The Dinner Party I suspect I will like a lot more now the season finale has happened. Some of the things that bugged me about it (like, oh say, some of Stefan's characterisation) I feel a lot lot better about now I suspect it was intentionally done rather than the writers just not realising how he came across. Or, you know. I could rewatch and have the exact same problems with it I did the first time, we shall see, heh.

I still think that it was Stefan glossing over his part (as he always does), but it was still really annoying. Gah, Stefan was SUCH a tool in that episode.

See, I don't really disagree with your point ("after a half-season of Elena's anger at Damon, we got a casual "I'm your friend" and Damon's easy acceptance of that statement")) But I love that scene between them so damn much, I really do, that I forgive the writers for it.

I think I'd feel the same if I loved the scene, but it just bugged me so much that I don't even really enjoy the scene. :(

I cannot even believe he did that ("The Descent"'s final scene) while sick with pneumonia! Seriously well done.

So damn amazed by his performance there, and that he was sick? Just whoah!

I'm pretty sure I'm still gonna have issues with ["Klaus"], even though I agree with what both you and Julie have said re: what it means for Damon's characterisation. I just feel like I'm missing some scenes or an entire episode or SOMETHING to get me both to the Damon/Stefan stuff and especially to the end with Andie.

YES! It was like we skipped an episode that built up to that stuff. I did not get it. I wonder if that was a case of bringing Daniel Gillies/Elijah back. They originally planned for more scenes exploring Stefan/Damon and that whole thingie, but with Daniel/Elijah they scrapped some of those scenes to write that backstory thinking that viewers would get it? I dunno, but it didn't work.

I completely bought him snapping and killing Jeremy, the same with Jessica, and thought both those scenes as well as the build up to them were phenomenally well done. But with Andie, I mainly just find it frustrating that it doesn't really work for me anywhere near as well as I wished it did, or as well as it could've/should've done.

Right. In my review of the episode, I wrote that it came across as if Damon was just having a temper tantrum. I didn't feel for him, I was annoyed by him, and I'm an UBER-Damon fan.

I also have some pretty major srs bsns issues with the last scene with Andie, which probably doesn't help my feelings on it, but I digress.

I went into major detail about that scene with various reasonings behind it. So we may have the same issues.

Edited at 2011-07-03 10:07 pm (UTC)
distant_autumn: Damon - Huh by crowandfogdistant_autumn on July 4th, 2011 06:02 pm (UTC)
Re: FINALLY!
Re: S/E I think that's a really great way of putting it in perspective. I certainly felt like a LOT of the seeds of the downfall of S/E were quietly sown throughout S2.

And matching them, Stefan letting her go with Klaus without even a hint of a fight.

Although I have to say, I LOVE the shot of their fingers slipping away from each other. I feel like there's a lot in that episode that makes clear the various ways in which Elena IS slipping through Stefan's fingers (in the non-Klaus related sense) so I loved them making it literal. The characters talk it up like it's Damon that's in danger of losing her in 2.20, but it's not. At all. Uh, in my crazy, over-invested in my ship opinion, hee.

YES! It was like we skipped an episode that built up to that stuff. I did not get it. I wonder if that was a case of bringing Daniel Gillies/Elijah back. They originally planned for more scenes exploring Stefan/Damon and that whole thingie, but with Daniel/Elijah they scrapped some of those scenes to write that backstory thinking that viewers would get it? I dunno, but it didn't work.

That is exactly what it felt like to me. Like they wanted to get all the backstory, etc. out there and ho hum, the audience can make the mental leap with the Stefan, Damon and Andie stuff. UM. That stuff was kind of too important for me to want to have to do that, show.

Right. In my review of the episode, I wrote that it came across as if Damon was just having a temper tantrum. I didn't feel for him, I was annoyed by him, and I'm an UBER-Damon fan.

I know, right? What even happened there? It's even odder to me that it was by Kevin and Julie, because I think they normally write (and write Damon) so well.

As for my srs bsns issues with the episode, it's just me getting my feminist rage on, ha. And I don't enjoy feeling like that about TVD, which is another reason why that episode, despite a lot of great scenes, is so far down my own mental S2 list. BUT ANYWAY!
Arabian: Damon10arabian on July 4th, 2011 06:19 pm (UTC)
Re: FINALLY!
I don't think you read my write-up of Klaus (or if you did, you didn't respond), but it didn't actually grab at my feminist issues because I think how horribly she was portrayed (desperate to be there for him in such a humiliating fashion) was based on the fact that she was under Damon's compulsion to behave in such a fashion. Which means that in Damon's fucked up mind that's the only kind of love he really knows, because that's the only kind of love he has been shown. Which we know is true. My issue was that I didn't understand HOW Damon got to that point, thus it just felt to me like Damon was having a tantrum. I had to guess at the level of compulsion/effect on Andie because that aspect was dropped.

I know a lot of people complained about the Harper story being dropped last year, but I never felt that his story was truncated. I could see where there could be more, but I didn't feel like I was missing pieces of the puzzle, disrupting flow. The Andie stuff in this episode DID feel that way. Anyhoo, if you haven't read it, here's the link.

ETA: However, you may find yourself VERY much disagreeing with some of my points, re: Damon. :(

ETA: Again. I don't know, I'm rereading this, and I really did a 180 on this episode, pretty much every time I watch it. I do think it has a lot of depth and a LOT of awesome in it, it's just the Damon stuff isn't as well-laid out as it normally is. Gah.

I LOVE the shot of their fingers slipping away from each other. I feel like there's a lot in that episode that makes clear the various ways in which Elena IS slipping through Stefan's fingers (in the non-Klaus related sense) so I loved them making it literal. The characters talk it up like it's Damon that's in danger of losing her in 2.20, but it's not. At all. Uh, in my crazy, over-invested in my ship opinion, hee.

Hmm, I never thought of it that way. Me likey! :D

Edited at 2011-07-04 06:28 pm (UTC)
distant_autumn: Damon - Huh by crowandfogdistant_autumn on July 4th, 2011 07:53 pm (UTC)
Re: FINALLY!
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I was still just lurking around the edges of fandom when Klaus aired. And RL is doing a bit of a number on me lately so I haven't had chance to go back and read/respond to reactions to old episodes, although I want to, when I get chance :D (I also desperately want to do a rewatch myself. Gah, lack of time is driving me crazy lately!)

Anyway, I don't know that I'll necessarily disagree with you re: Damon, to be honest; I mean, I agree with everything you've said about him in this post and comments and you know my love of him :D. My issue is kind of not with the character (except in the previously discussed "did I miss an episode?" and tantrum sense), nor with Andie's reaction (I agree that was partly or totally due to compulsion, and think it was meant to be disturbing). It's that, hmm. Okay, basically I felt like with, say, Caroline in S1, we knew Caroline. We were invited to care about her, that arc was important to HER character (more so than his) and then he got locked away and starved as punishment for it. It was a disturbing arc, but intentionally so, and I didn't feel icked out by the show itself, I felt like they knew what they were doing with it.

Whereas Andie... I liked her well enough, but I don't feel like we were meant to in any way invest in her or care about her. It isn't about her, at all. Her entire existence is about Damon, and that might be true of her in-show (i.e. the compulsion is making her all about him), but precisely BECAUSE of that, I'm not comfortable with that being all the audience gets of her, which it basically was. And it culminates in that end scene where the entire intention is for me to watch this woman get abused and then for me to feel the pain of the guy doing it. And I do. Because I'm heavily invested in his character. And it's so sexualised; he's fully dressed, but she's stood there in her underwear and heels for it, and the way it's shot, the camera even ends up doing a bit of a close up of her ass after she's just been thrown across the room. The combined effect of it all grossed me the hell out in a way that other stuff they've done hasn't. Whilst it was certainly intended to be a disturbing scene, I just thought there was a lot of unintentional sketchiness about it and it annoyed me.

So, I don't know if it's a weird distinction, but my issue is not so much with Damon; in fact, I completely agree that it both counts as significant character development for him and says incredibly sad things about him and love. I'm just icked out at how they did it in this episode, and think they could've done the same basic story and NOT icked me out very easily, and yet. We got what we got. I don't know how much of that is down to things getting cut for time, because I agree the arc felt very truncated. But whatever the reason, it honestly really bothered me and I really, really dislike feeling that way about TVD, you know? Anywway! That's what bugged me.
Arabian: Damon04arabian on July 4th, 2011 08:48 pm (UTC)
Re: FINALLY!
Obviously, I agree with the truncated-ness of it, but re: your ickiness? I think you were SUPPOSED to get that feeling. I think we were supposed to be horrified by what Damon did, by how vulnerable and pathetic he'd made this woman. And in that moment towards the end there, it's like he realized it and so he let her go. That is what we were supposed to get. If this was a regular thing with the show, I'd be bothered by it, but I think it was very, very deliberately set up in that fashion to illicit a horrified response.

Sadly, for enough people on my flist, and I'm sure elsewhere, it did not. People were writing up how awesome, brave and wonderful they thought Andie's love for Damon was, and I was like WHU!?!??? HOW did you get that. I don't know how much more horrifying they could have made the scene to get the point across, but even what they did -- as terrible as it was -- didn't break through to some people.

Re: Past episode write-ups. Ooh, I'd love to hear your thoughts on my rambles. I did ALL of s2, and 1.19 of season one. Plus, tons and tons, oh and TONS more of other posts.
distant_autumn: Caroline - woods by lipglossingdistant_autumn on July 4th, 2011 09:14 pm (UTC)
Re: FINALLY!
I think I was definitely supposed to find it icky for all the reasons you said, and I did. But to me, it unfortunately just felt like there was unintentional ickiness as well as the intended ickiness and it bugged me. But mileage varies and all that! :)

People were writing up how awesome, brave and wonderful they thought Andie's love for Damon was, and I was like WHU!?!??? HOW did you get that.

:( :( :( Oh, god, don't tell me that. That's awful. Gah. People, no. No no no.

And at some point, I WILL get some free time (she says, optimistically) and then I'm rewatching and diving in! :D
Vickie: TVD - Elena Someones Entered Crazy Townsarcasticcheese on June 30th, 2011 07:17 pm (UTC)
It works; it fits Damon, I have no problem with it.

It does, but he still WAY overdoes it in some scenes. In some scenes it works and others it doesn't. He relies on it too much.

At least upon first watch. I haven't rewatched anything (except for The Return and that was within a few days of initial airing) yet and my thoughts may change. But, it still really bothers me, even if I do agree that he is amazing in the role. He needs to cut back on it.
Arabian: Elena04arabian on July 3rd, 2011 07:03 pm (UTC)
he still WAY overdoes it in some scenes. In some scenes it works and others it doesn't. He relies on it too much.

My point in saying that was that it works for me ALWAYS. Rewatching it, there was never a point where I was personally bothered by it. Ever. I know it bugs people, I know it bugs you at times, it apparently bugs Kevin and Julie at times, and it's something that he obviously can't control if it bugs them, he knows it, and he doesn't stop it. I'm just saying it doesn't bother me at all. If he cut down on it, I wouldn't mind because it would stop some of the critics, but I don't care that he does it. :)
(Deleted comment)
Arabian: Damon08arabian on October 4th, 2011 01:38 am (UTC)
Aww, just saw this now. I agree re: Damon/Ian. People just like to join backlash bandwagons. :rolls eyes: