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23 April 2011 @ 01:36 pm
2.19 - 'Klaus (The Vampire Diaries)  
I actually had to watch this episode twice because I was so not in the frame of mind Thursday night. Bad week, lots of stress, exhaustion, ugh! So there was one major aspect of the episode -- namely Damon -- that left me scratching my head. My rewatch cleared that up, so yay. Anyhoo, on with the show ...

Very interesting that this episode truly only focused on seven characters, with only very brief appearances by Alaric, Carol Lockwood and the two witches (Maddox and Greta). I honestly can't think of another episode that featured so few characters (Damon, Stefan, Elena, Klaus, Elijah, Jenna and Katherine). However, it really worked for this one. I remember thinking halfway through that the episode actually felt like watching a movie, it was so centered and, well, focused.

To begin with, I found Stefan quite fascinating in this episode. Almost all of his actions (minus the Jenna scenes), seemed motivated not by protecting Elena, but rather showing Damon up. All of his 'this is Elena's choice/respecting her decisions' read to me more like posturing and proving to Damon what an awesome boyfriend he is. Considering the last scene with Stefan and Damon in "The Last Dance," it certainly makes sense. I don't doubt that Stefan loves Elena, or that he does genuinely want to protect her, keep her safe, however, it was yet another episode that made me feel as if in the big picture -- whether he realizes it or not, and I don't think he does at all -- Stefan is the most important equation in the Stefan/Elena relationship to Stefan. As long as he looks good, as long as his feelings, desires, self-image is maintained, he can deal with everything else.

I mean, thinking back on when he was at his darkest, it was when his self-image was battered (the whole blood-drug arc from late season one), he was losing out on his desire (Elena breaking up with him in "Plan B"), etc., it certainly fits a pattern. I just do think that Stefan is inherently a selfish person. Not in a catty, bitchy way, but just in that -- going back to points made in some other TVD-post of mine -- he has always been the chosen one. He was his father's favorite son, Katherine chose Stefan publicly (and now, of course, we know, over all), Elena chooses Stefan, heck, even Damon has Stefan in a special position. And because of that, despite being such a good guy -- and he totally is, he's a great person with a great heart -- he is selfish, and he automatically assumes that it all boils down to him. His last line of the episode gave credence to that. Damon's attitude, Stefan put down to "he's angry at me." And I was just 'oh, Stefan, dude! Not everything is about you. It's not about you!' But Stefan just doesn't see that because through so much of his life it has been about him.

So what was it about? Damon's (a) losing control, and (b) being denied the one role he's allowed himself to believe he can have in Elena's life -- as her protector. He's not her boyfriend, he's barely her friend at this point, and Stefan is right, she doesn't respect his methods (or him). And that was the perfect point to drive home with from Stefan's end in getting under Damon's skin. Damon already believes that he'll never have her love or her heart, so if Stefan had said that -- which I think everyone, including Damon, thought he would say -- he would have just responded with some sarcastic jibe. Respect though, that's different and it is worse. Because Damon is using his distraction, and busting his ass, breaking all of these rules, controlling his monstrous impulses, trying to be 'the better man' as much as possible to keep Elena safe ... and not only is he not getting any credit for it, he's actively getting chastised and looked down upon for doing so. And with those two words Stefan basically revealed that last delusion of what Damon thought he could be for Elena, something that Damon believed that not even Stefan could be.

His "Go to hell" to Elena (and the others) confused me at first, but the rewatch made it all perfectly clear. Stefan had just brought that point home, and now here comes Elena with Elijah in tow, essentially saying that yeah, I've got this bigger, bad-ass vampire in my backpocket who knows all the secrets, can save my friend and me! And from Damon's end, it felt like yet another rejection, a repudiation. The one thing he's allowing himself to be, that he's convinced himself only he can do (be the one to keep Elena safe), was just cleanly taken away from him, and from a beaming Elena no less -- who clearly has NO clue. She's standing there, with a satisfied smile on her face, youthfully proud of herself for finding another way, never even thinking -- not that she has to, or should think of Damon's widdle, hurt feelings, LOL! -- how Damon would take it. So, his rejection of all of them made perfect sense. And I loved how of the three of them, Elijah was the only one who seemed to get what was going on with Damon. But more on my bb Elijah later. Back to Damon and those widdle, hurt feelings and the fall-out.

I've read praise and awws over Andie sticking around, and how great it was that Damon didn't kill her, but I have to say that I did not come away from that scene feeling any of that. First of all, I really can not wait until we find out what the full deal with the compulsion is. Is it all the time, is it only some of the time? We're getting conflicting stories from what's on the show and what's in the press. So I'm curious. If she is constantly under some form of compulsion, then I have a completely different read on both Damon and Andie in that final scene. With that compulsion in place, leading her to pathetically stick around, throw herself at a man who is emotionally abusing the hell out of her (more on that later too), you have to look at the source of her actions.

If she's operating under Damon's compulsion, then her actions are being mandated by whatever Damon has laid down as a general, state of things compulsion ... which means that Damon himself believes that sticking around for emotional abuse is a way of showing you care. And that is just sad. And so clearly, obviously learned at not only the feet of Katherine, but also his father. This is a guy, who as a human, was clearly emotionally abused by the people he loved the most. Except for Stefan. Or is he an exception? Stefan does tend to stick those emotional daggers into Damon's gut on a regular basis, something that Damon has never managed to quite do to Stefan. The difference between Stefan, and Guiseppe and Katherine, of course, is that any emotionally abusive manipulation that has come from Stefan towards Damon -- for the most part -- is NOT intentional. However, intentional or not, it's the perception that matters here. And if Damon perceives that he's received a similar enough type of treatment from Stefan that he did from his father and Katherine, it certainly makes sense that he'd color all forms of love with emotional abuse.

My gosh, he is one fucked-up wounded puppy, isn't he? But he was still a monster in that final scene with Andie. I did not feel sorry for him even as I got why he did what he did, and yes, it's good that he didn't kill her, but he was monstrous and in a way that I didn't feel during the final scene in "The Descent" (ironically enough since he did kill the girl then). This felt more like Damon having a temper tantrum, as opposed to an existential crisis. I love my boy dearly, but Damon needs to do some growing up. Yes, he never gets what he wants, but maybe if he stopped being such a snotty, vicious little baby about it every time he doesn't, things might turn around. Because it is not the same as it was in 1865. He has Elena and Alaric, she may not know (as far as Damon believes) that he is a vampire, but he has Liz also. And there is Stefan who, despite everything, still clearly loves him. So, yeah, Damon, get over it, grow up and start accepting that there are people now who genuinely care about you without the emotional abuse being a part of the equation.

Now, that's if Andie IS under some form of compulsion overall (which writing all of that, I'm going with that she is), because if she is not? Oy vey. I did not love Andie, I did not cheer Andie ... at all. If this was her not acting under any form of compulsion, I found her nothing but pathetic. That she would put up with that kind of emotional, followed by physical, abuse from Damon was horrifying to watch. But that physical abuse -- and its vampiric form -- really leads me to believe that there is some form of general compulsion. The specific compulsions (ie, "you didn't compel me to go") are just that: about specific words and actions.

Okay, backing up a bit to Damon's abuse of Andie. I'm treading in murky, controversial waters here, but if this isn't an episode to bring it up, I'm not sure when I will. Yes, how Damon treated Caroline was terrible. Yes, the way he treats Andie is horrific. I still don't see it in the terms of reality that many others do. Damon is a vampire. He is not the only vampire we've seen this way. Isobel used, abused and treated her humans like play-toys, to do with according to her whim. Klaus and Elijah (before he began to care for Katherine) saw her as merely a tool with which to achieve their ends. She didn't matter to them as a person at all. It was only when Elijah began to care for her as an individual that he began to see her as an individual and not a tool or plaything.

Anna had absolutely no problem using, treating humans as her tools to get what she wanted, and when she needed some help, she turned some guy just because. It was only after she began to care for Jeremy, that like Elijah, she saw him as an individual and not a tool. And then we have Stefan, who does casually compel humans to do things for him. More importantly, when he sees Damon treating humans this way (Caroline in "Friday Night Bites," and this episode with Andie), he offers a token statement of protest, and then he's done. When Elena confronted Stefan about Damon's treatment of Caroline in FNB, Stefan "knew" that it wasn't awesome behavior, but it wasn't something that he really thought was that a big of deal. Because he's a vampire. He's not a human, no vampire is. They approach humans with a different mindset, until they allow themselves to care about them and see them as actual individuals.

I'm not saying it's cool how Damon treats them; I don't like it. I long for the day when the show has Damon actively pursuing and/or with Elena, and thus he has to relearn how to properly treat human beings -- because he so will have to when he gets to that point with Elena. (And, yes, I do think that it will be Elena who makes him realize that, yeah, he has to relearn that behavior and put it into practice.) I'm just saying that I personally can not compare the portrayal of a supernatural vampire's treatment of humans -- he can be as awful to males as he is females -- to the portrayal of a non-supernatural, reality-based human's treatment of another human, or even to an abusive human in real life. That's just me, and my perspective. I can not compare the two -- one has no basis in reality, the other is a very sad reality. I realize that some people don't see it that way and I respect their point of view; I just don't share it.

Phew! Moving on to more fun topics! Mainly: Elijah! What I loved most about this episode was the glorious return of Elijah! All hail Daniel Gillies. I really think the casting department screwed up, LOL! Gillies is so magnificent, charming, charismatic, compelling, scene-stealing and all-around awesome, that I'm not sure there was any actor they could have cast as Klaus that could have topped Gillies' portrayal of Elijah. I'm not saying that Joseph Morgan is doing a bad job, and we still haven't see him truly in modern times, but, well, he's no Elijah.

But that's okay, because we have Elijah, yay! And I'm calling it now, the show realizes how incredibly awesome Gillies and Elijah are and while we're losing someone in the cast, I'm thinking that we're gaining someone next season and his name is Daniel Gillies. For an episode named "Klaus" (and funny how "Rose" didn't do much for that character, but offering Elijah's introduction as well left viewers hungry for more of him), this episode was all about Elijah. And not just about Elijah, but -- for lack of a better word -- humanizing him. After this episode, he's no longer the bad guy. He's the tortured puppy of his cheerfully evil, casually sadistic brother.

Oh, and the parallels between the original vampire brothers (Elijah and Klaus) and our current vampire bros (Damon and Stefan) were plentiful and awesome, but so not a retread. There were aspects of Stefan and Klaus that were similar. Being younger or not, Stefan is so the favored one, as was/is Klaus. Also, like 1865 and present-day Katherine, the doppelganger chose Klaus over his brother. And you could see Elijah reacting to that, and getting that frustration and disappointment from Damon in that final scene with the four of them. However, like Stefan, Elijah came across as more the "good" brother, opposed to Klaus and Damon's snarky, hedonistic and bad-bad-boy style. So well-written and crafted.

You know, I stupidly told sarcasticcheese that this was one of the weakest of the Kevin Williamson/Julie Plec-penned episodes. Clearly, I was on crack. Damn, is there a ridiculous amount of awesome depth and character intricacy, plot development, etc. here. Anyhoo, moving on ...

Speaking of the brother parallel -- including Elijah as the "good brother -- I do also wonder if Elijah's comment to Elena about not caring for the doppelganger this time (while looking right at Elena) was foreshadowing. Provided, of course, that I'm right and that Elijah will be sticking around next season as a full cast member -- and he damn well should!, I wonder if once Stefan and Elena are broken up (and once it happens, I do think it will be for good), he will be moved into a triangle with Caroline and Tyler (if he survives), while Elijah is moved into a triangle with not only Damon and Elena, but possibly a side triangle with Stefan and Katherine. I don't know, but it would certainly work for me as Daniel Gillies has way more chemistry with Nina Dobrev than does Paul Wesley (but not as much as Nina and Ian Somerhalder, of course, this is me). And, yeah, after this episode, I'm officially shipping Elijah and Katherine. Damon and Elena, Stefan and Caroline, and Elijah and Katherine. Make it happen, show! (Hee!) (For anyone who's interested, there's a Katherine/Elijah comm now -- kat_elijah.)

Clearly, something is brewing. The Vampire Diaries does not throw random similarities in for no reason. So, reason for thinking that a Stefan/Katherine/Elijah triangle is possible? This:

     

There's Stefan and Katherine from season one's "Lost Girls," and five hundred years before, Elijah and Katherine. You're not going to tell me that this was not a deliberate, foreshadowing move (of some sort) on the show's part. Uh huh. Maybe, maybe that foreshadowing I mentioned above (re: Elijah having feelings for Elena down the line) won't be happening, but rather it was that Elijah will rediscover his feelings for Katherine, thus leading (somehow) to an Elijah/Katherine/Stefan triangle. Or maybe even a quad with Caroline thrown in if Tyler and/or Matt dies. I know, I know, I'm just so excited about the possibilities. Seeing Stefan involved within a pairing, triangle, quad with Katherine and/or Caroline will be so much more fun and interesting as a Stefan fan who finds him senselessly static and boring with Elena. Snore. And, yeah, if it frees Elena up to finally deal with her way too deeply submerged Damon feelings, that works for me!

Ahem, and now we're onto my former Elijah-hoped for pairing lady: Jenna. Yeah, not seeing that happen now, but I'm all about Elijah with Katherine now, so that's cool. But I still want to talk about Jenna. I loved that kitchen scene with her, KlausAlaric and Stefan so much. So well done, so well-written, directed, acted, fantastic crafting all-around. At first, it seemed as if the line from the preview ("Do you believe in vampires, Jenna?") was just a tease and that he actually wasn't going to spill, but he went on and on, and the tension was just getting higher and higher. Finally, it culminated (or so I thought) with Jenna telling Alaric to get out, and her tone of voice was just this wonderful blend of anger, resignation, self-pity and confusion -- once again, Sara Canning was aces, please do not kill Jenna, just figure out someway to spotlight this actress! And then AlaricKlaus pulled the knife on her, tension racheted up even higher! and I was all "Whoah!" And then Stefan did the zoomy-wooshing thing, another rachet, another "WHOAH!" and then Stefan went all vampire-facey and growly and I was all "AWESOME!"

So, so well-done. I loved it.

And I think I would have loved the Jenna/Elena scene more had I not been spoiled by a certain actress (coughcough *DawnOlivieri* coughcough) leaking that scene and thus killing the impact. Yes, yes, I shouldn't have broken down and read the script page, but how was I supposed to know that it would contain such an emotionally-charged, been-building-up-to-it since episode six of the first season scene? I didn't. Ah, such is the life of a spoiler whore. Still, it was a very well-done scene and Jenna's lament that she was supposed to be protecting Elena broke my heart. I did however have one quibble. I truly wish that Elena's responses when asked if Jeremy and John knew were more explanatory. Had Elena said "he read my diary," about Jeremy, and "he already knew" about John that would have answered Jenna's question, but not made it seem as if they all deliberately chose to tell each other and yet leave Jenna in the dark. Still, small quibble. Okay, fine, one more. Actually seeing the follow-up scene between Jenna and Elena would have been nice, but time and plot needs make it an understandable cut. :(

So, Klaus is a werevamp. Cool. Very, very cool. And can I just say how much I absolutely adore that the sun and moon curse was all made up. LOLOLOLOLOL! I've read much bitching on the internet about how stupid, and needlessly convoluted the curse is, how many plot-holes are contained within, and that it's just lame. Only to find out that it was made-up by Klaus. Again, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! And clearly this was all planned (and not a reaction to the complaints) because of the werewolf groundwork that's been set up all season long. I don't think I can properly express how much I adore the writing, plotting, intricacy of this show.

And this leads me to another bit of speculation (as clearly I was totally -- happily! -- wrong about Damon not being on Elena's protect list), Damon will get bitten in the second to last, or last episode of the season. Klaus will bite him. And we will see what happens with a werewolf bite, because we haven't seen it to its conclusion. Damon staked Rose before she died, and for all we know that is what has always happened with past were-bitten vampires. They were either killed during their rabid state, or by those who care to ease their suffering under the assumption that, of course, they would die. Or, the original "Elena" from hence all the doppelgangers come from was perhaps the witch who put the curse on Klaus in the first place, and thus her blood would save Damon. Things that make you go hmmm.........

Alrighty then, almost done with this novel, onto random, quick thoughts:

- Still thinking on the original Nina Dobrev-portrayed character ... who was she? Klaus' half-sister? The wife of his father? The wife of one of his father's children?

- Nice foreshadowing early in the episode when Klaus explained that Niklaus was the name his father gave him, but he went by a different name. Showed a disdain for the man who wasn't actually his father.

- Okay, so the originals were, erm, originally human. So, uhm, how did they become vampires then?

- All in the delivery, baby. "She's lost it." Bwahahahahaha!! Oh, Damon, I love you so.

- I found it interesting -- yes, I found a lot of things interesting in this episode -- that when Elena said "Stop!" when the boys were fighting, they immediately, and I mean immediately, stopped. Don't know why it struck me so, but it did.

- It's a first, I not only ADORED someone's hair in a flashback, I prefer it to the modern-day look. Oh, Elijah, bring back your 1492 hair, pretty, pretty please.

- Not so impressed with Klaus' though. Joseph Morgan looked MUCH better in the few seconds we saw him at the end than in all the flashbacks, in my opinion.

- Hah! Alaric's confused "Elena?" and then slump/face plant. And I can "Hah!" because he's clearly not dead (yet? *bites nails in worry*) judging from next week's preview.

- Okay, yes, Nina Dobrev is hot. And, as Katherine, they REALLY highlight her hotness, but I don't get the point of us watching Katherine randomly dance around for 30-40 seconds. Damnit, I could have had more of the Jenna/Elena stuff in that time!

- So is Greta under compulsion or is she just a happy camper for Klaus willingly? And if so, damn, Jonas and Luka so died for nothing. Sheesh! And, whee! I knew it was Lisa Tucker from American Idol, but I didn't realize that I would recognize her that obviously. Based on this little bit, she's a better actress than singer, and she wasn't a bad singer at all. (She just stupidly took on Kelly Clarkson's "Because of You" while it was still in active play on the radio, and with her rendition, butchered it. Ahem.)

- Wow, Stefan is a really heavy sleeper. Elena clearly didn't even go to bed, and Stefan wasn't aware of it.

- Giving some shallow here: Damn, Damon looked really hot this episode. Yummy!

- Hmm, so in the short preview, Elijah said "I believe the term you're looking for is OMG." Yet, in the extended preview he said, "I believe the term you're looking for is OMFG." But in the episode last night, he used the first phrase. Man, I was looking forward to the second. Ah well.

- Okay, so was anyone else all, "Stefan, I know that you're pissed at Klaus, but that's Alaric's pretty body you're kicking the crap out of it, dude!"

- I loved the reveal of how a vampire is like when they somehow wind up in a house they weren't invited to enter. That was just really cool. (As was the shot of Elijah on his knee, looking up at Elena, once outside.)

- Anyone else noticing how Damon is constantly referring to Elena as Stefan's "girlfriend." Like a lot now? I wonder if it's part of his coping mechanism/distraction, as a way of reminding himself she's off-limits. Because, yeah, his control in that aspect is slipping. This was the first time he flat-out told Stefan in all seriousness that yes, he wants Elena. He's always side-stepped it or made a joke before. So yeah, things are definitely starting to reach a breaking point.

And I can't wait until they explode! WOOHOO!!
 
 
 
x5valex5vale on April 23rd, 2011 06:30 pm (UTC)
Great insight, seriously.

I need some time to process it and coming up with a proper comment, but I have to say I agree with you about the way Damon treats people. He is a vampire. We can't comparre his abuse to an abuse committed by a human being on another one
That's why the compulsion thing doesn't bother me that much.

Yes, Damon has to grow up and change his attitude. He should allow people to see beyong the wall he has built up, but I think right now he is totally unable to. He needs someone who guides him, who shows him how to deal with his own feeling and with the people around him.

That being said, and totally understanding the reasons behind Stefan's words and behaviour, I really can't like what he constantly does to Damon. Stefan should be the one to know what his brother feels and why he behaves likke he does. I think that Stefan does, but ignores is because it's not convenient in this moment. I don't even know what is worse. If Stefan knows his brother or if he doesn't at all.

I felt that Elijah and Damon are more connected than Damon is aware of. I think there could be much more going on between those two, especially after that monent when Damon went away and Elijah seemed to perfectly understand him.

All in all, I loved this episode and how the story is unfolding.

ETA
I totally agree with you about your analysis on Stefan's words to Damon and what they meant. You totally got it: Damon lost his role in Elena's life and he just can't handle it.

Edited at 2011-04-23 06:33 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Stefan02arabian on April 23rd, 2011 06:57 pm (UTC)
It really took a rewatch and writing this post out to come up with all I did. The more I wrote, the more stuff occurred to me and, really, I'm just in awe of Plec and Williamson.

He is a vampire. We can't compare his abuse to an abuse committed by a human being on another one

Yeah, this.

You're right in that Damon needs help; he just has never really had that guidance. I'm still hoping that all that's happening is going to lead to him getting that guidance and that turn-around he needs.

I think the reason I can still love Stefan despite the emotional crap he pulls on Damon is because I truly don't think that Stefan has even a clue of how deeply he cuts Damon. He's never experienced the second-hand love mixed with apathy, the rejection that Damon has HIS ENTIRE EXISTENCE from everyone he loves, so Stefan just can not comprehend that his little jibes cut Damon much, much deeper than just about anything Damon could ever do to him.

I felt that Elijah and Damon are more connected than Damon is aware of. I think there could be much more going on between those two, especially after that moment when Damon went away and Elijah seemed to perfectly understand him.

This.

All in all, I loved this episode and how the story is unfolding.

And this.

I totally agree with you about your analysis on Stefan's words to Damon and what they meant. You totally got it: Damon lost his role in Elena's life and he just can't handle it.

This was another one that totally took the rewatch and more thinky-thoughts time to figure out because I didn't get it the first time.
(no subject) - x5vale on April 23rd, 2011 08:06 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 23rd, 2011 09:43 pm (UTC) (Expand)
youcallitwinter: youcallitwinter on April 23rd, 2011 07:15 pm (UTC)
THIS WAS A GREAT LONG POST. I’ve just begun it and I have to leave because of my term paper (which I’ve procrastinated on till the absolute last moment, guhh), but I had to tell you, that was some awesome analysis, even in the first paragraph. Like, I love it when people can be analytical about stuff and explain their subject-position instead of being all, ‘it’s there, just watch’. And I loved your thoughts on Damon particularly; I thought it was interesting how you bought in the human/vampire dichotomy in terms of morals. I’ve mentioned that myself sometime, like how Stefan is projected in a particular way but that’s like saying that there’s a Gandhi amongst us, but we can’t ALL be like that. I suppose the imposition of a human code of morality on vampires is a little pointless, and which is why I love Damon despite what he does, because he’s an excellent character, even if he’s not a very nice person. So, it’s not Damon’s conduct that I have as much problem with, as it is with other characters. Like you mentioned, the vampires pretty much all seem fine with exploiting humans for their own gains, and their situation in the food chain as the predators makes that okay for them I suppose. But what I don’t exactly get (or like very much) is why don’t the people who are human seem to react? They do, on the surface, but it’s never seemed to me like anyone cares very much. In the whole Caroline thing, even after Elena found out the whole truth, there was the “I’ll tell the sheriff, stay away”, but looking at Caroline’s body, the abuse was visibly extreme and Elena didn’t actually tell anyone. Even with Andie, it must be pretty obvious to everyone why she behaves the way she does and the reason for the scarf and stuff, but we haven’t seen a SINGLE reaction except Stefan’s, and that too is on the moralizing level of ‘you’ll never change’. So that I just don’t get. Except for the fact that obv the angle is way too complex to be explored in a show that isn’t concerned with it on the level of the plot, and it’s hard to explain and would just shift attention. But it’s like I might understand why Damon does the stuff he does and love him madly, but I don’t have to agree.
Man, I’m incapable of brevity, and I really need to come back and finish reading this; brilliant!
Arabian: NinaDobrev05arabian on April 23rd, 2011 07:21 pm (UTC)
Thank you very much. I'm stunned at how much I wound up getting out of this, really.

Re: your thoughts on the human reaction as opposed to the vampire action, you are TOTALLY right. There should be more of a reaction from the humans, and you can't even fully put it down to being desensitized to this stuff at this point because Elena didn't even know about the vampire stuff in "Friday Night Bites."

Edited at 2011-04-23 07:23 pm (UTC)
Beccy: VD ~ Damon1epic_love on April 23rd, 2011 07:26 pm (UTC)
I loved what you said about Stefan, it really helped me understand where he was coming from in this episode better, 'cos I hadn't picked up on half the stuff you had.

And hell yes to what you said about how you can't compare the evil things vampires do, to the evil things humans do. This is what's been bugging me about the Damon backlash, you can't hold him up to the same moral standards as human characters, I know that sounds like justifying his actions because I love him, but vampires have an entirely different mindset to humans, and so you've gotta look at the things Damon does from a vampire perspective, because he's not human, and he'll never be human.

I adore Elijah so!
Arabian: Elijah02arabian on April 23rd, 2011 07:32 pm (UTC)
I don't know why I feel like I "get" Stefan easily. His character motivation was the one aspect that did not change at all or get added upon from my rewatch. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love Stefan. He's my fourth favorite character (after Damon, Elena and Caroline), but I don't know why he's so easy for me to read, LOL! Whereas with Damon, I gotta imploy the thinky-thoughts.

And hell yes to what you said about how you can't compare the evil things vampires do, to the evil things humans do. This is what's been bugging me about the Damon backlash, you can't hold him up to the same moral standards as human characters, I know that sounds like justifying his actions because I love him, but vampires have an entirely different mindset to humans, and so you've gotta look at the things Damon does from a vampire perspective, because he's not human, and he'll never be human.

THIS! ALL OF THIS!! Damon is not a human. Would you hold a lion who attacks his prey to the same standard that you would a human? No. Why? Because they are different species. Elijah even called vampires and werewolves different species in this episode, thus, they are clearly different species from humans.

I adore Elijah so!

He is sooooooooo-adore-worthy.

sassy, classy, and a bit smart-assybadboy_fangirl on April 23rd, 2011 09:12 pm (UTC)
part one--Damon focused
I've been wondering where you were. Sorry things have been stressful! I hope you get to have a relaxing weekend.

Also: I love that you seem to be the only person besides myself who recognized Lisa Tucker. I was totally like ...is that? from AMERICAN IDOL?.... How random.

So you talk about a lot of stuff here that I clearly can't cover all of merely based on time. So I'll try to address the top most points to me, and of course most of those involve Damon. :D

First of all, I have to say something about the Compulsion thing with Andie because I've been puzzling over the whole thing myself. And though I totally see what you're saying about the situation, I kind of get the feeling that Damon has relaxed his hold on her somewhat--as far as the Compulsion goes. I mean, we know he compelled her early on to not feel afraid, which would explain a lot of her actions in this episode, but we also know he compelled her to think she was falling hard and he could be The One. She might be operating completely under those two aspects--except that we saw him compel her to leave and she still hesitated there at the end, which makes me think there is some aspect of it that is not completely binding. Which leads me to think that her caring for him is REAL, and based on what interaction we haven't seen between them. I think that opening scene where he asked her for blood and she kindly rejected him and he pouted like a kid and then she was all "I've gotta go to work" and she went out the door and there was nothing mean or nasty about Damon in that instance shows that there is some sort of equilibrium in their relationship. Granted, Damon was not stressed at that moment or upset, nor had he been figuratively gutted by both his brother and the woman he loves, so it was easy to let her go in that circumstance. And I get that it can never be equal as long as any Compulsion is involved, but I'm just thinking out loud about what motivates Andie.

[Just FYI, I'm with you on the Vampire mindset thing, 100%.]

All the same, I think Andie's motivations stem from her actual feelings for Damon, and perhaps some sort of understanding that he's so lonely, and alone, and part of her just can't walk away from that, even though there are many questionable things about their relationship. The fact that he'd hurt her so badly, compelled her to leave, and she still looked back as she was going out didn't strike me as weakness on her part--but that even though she has to do as compelled, she really wanted to help him.

In addition there are some new theories going around about Damon and why he's so mentally unstable and they all parallel the information Elijah shared with Elena about Klaus. I don't want to get into that if you're not interested, but let me just say if that's the direction the writers are going, it will explain a lot about Damon. Whether that will make him more sympathetic to viewers or just make the haters angrier, I don't know.

All I know is I didn't see that final scene between him and Andie as a temper tantrum, as you did. I saw it as a loss of control based on his position of power (being the answer man in the Save Elena Project) being usurped, his brother reaching back into the annals of time to pull out the worst possible barb to pierce him with, and Andie telling him that she cares about him--which he has a really hard time with, you know. Anyone really caring about him is always a point of contention. But that's just my admittedly skewed view.
Arabian: Damon08arabian on April 23rd, 2011 09:47 pm (UTC)
Re: part one--Damon focused
I don't disagree that Andi does care about Damon, I just think it's all mixed in with the compulsion now. And the fact that she hesitate to leave when he compels her can easily be tied in that she's got two compulsions working against each other -- the general 'love me, I'm the one' and then this specific one. Because that general one would make her hesitate because, well, she's compelled to think he's the one.

Hmm, what theories? I be curious.

Re: That last scene, yeah, I do think we see it the same way. A temper tantrum IS a "a loss of control." He was upset and bothered by all the things you listed and he lost control, and thus threw a tantrum. So, yeah, same thing. I just think he's getting to the point where he needs to start thinking before losing that control and realize he's in a different place than he was 150 years ago. Don't get me wrong, I still love him plenty lots, but boy needs to get a whiff of some coffee beans at some point. :)
Re: part one--Damon focused - badboy_fangirl on April 23rd, 2011 11:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - arabian on April 24th, 2011 12:08 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - crowandfog on April 24th, 2011 12:17 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - waltzmatildah on April 24th, 2011 02:02 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - badboy_fangirl on April 24th, 2011 06:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - crowandfog on April 24th, 2011 07:01 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - waltzmatildah on April 24th, 2011 02:00 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - crowandfog on April 24th, 2011 02:38 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - badboy_fangirl on April 24th, 2011 06:44 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - crowandfog on April 24th, 2011 06:58 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - badboy_fangirl on April 25th, 2011 05:36 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - crowandfog on April 25th, 2011 07:07 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - arabian on April 24th, 2011 12:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - linsell_farm on April 24th, 2011 02:19 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - waltzmatildah on April 24th, 2011 08:06 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - paceisthetrick on April 24th, 2011 11:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - waltzmatildah on April 24th, 2011 12:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Re: part one--Damon focused - badboy_fangirl on April 25th, 2011 05:43 am (UTC) (Expand)
sassy, classy, and a bit smart-assy: TVD: Stef Damon seeing Elenabadboy_fangirl on April 23rd, 2011 09:19 pm (UTC)
Part two--Stefan focused
As for Stefan, I agree 100% about the posturing thing--because I had this long drawn out thought process in crowandfog's journal that I won't repeat here, but I think Stefan's choice of the word "respect" in association with how Elena feels about Damon is interesting. That he didn't say love or any similar term to that, speaks to what I firmly believe--that Stefan already knows Elena loves Damon, maybe much against her will like Stefan feels about Damon, but it's there already, and he knows it. I had this great convo with someone the other day who pointed out that love isn't earned (unlike respect) and that the point of love is that it just happens, and often it's not based on any merit at all, it just is. While Damon, I'm sure believes nobody could really love him anyway, Stefan knows better, and he's not blind, he can see how it is between his brother and his girlfriend, and how it's been that way for a long time, and that at some point, somewhere along the way, Elena forgave Damon for Jeremy--without any fanfare. She just woke up one day and wasn't upset anymore about it.

So, you know, everything Stefan does now stems from insecurity, and of course fear for what's about to happen, and he's not a doer, not like Damon. Damon likes to have some project, some goal, something to sniff out and solve, whereas Stefan is content to sit back and let Damon run the show a lot of the times, and of course in this case, let Elena run it. Also, I think in a lot of ways, it tortures Stefan to see Elena changing into this girl who is so fearless in the face of her own death, because he knows he unwittingly brought all of that into her life by stalking her post-accident and then insinuating himself in her life.

And this building up to something happening to (or being revealed about) Damon that affects those already burgeoning feelings that Elena has for him is going to wreck Stefan's world. Not just because he'll lose Elena, but because the way he's always viewed Damon will have to change, and the guilt that already exists there for the mistakes he's made in their relationship should grow.

Otherwise, Stefan is just a tool who only cares about himself and he never grows or develops.
Arabian: Stefan03arabian on April 23rd, 2011 09:48 pm (UTC)
Re: Part two--Stefan focused
Very interesting. I like this:

love isn't earned (unlike respect) and that the point of love is that it just happens, and often it's not based on any merit at all, it just is.

That's very true, and it's an interesting idea that Stefan didn't say love not because he wanted to hurt Damon, but because he doesn't believe that is the case. Hmmm.

Otherwise, Stefan is just a tool who only cares about himself and he never grows or develops.

And I simply refuse to believe that.
Re: Part two--Stefan focused - linsell_farm on April 24th, 2011 02:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Jude: tvd; elijahdanceonstardust on April 23rd, 2011 09:47 pm (UTC)
I love your take on Damon's character. I was fighting myself thinking during the episode if he's being an ass who doesn't get his way or a kid throw a tantrum. Either way, I prefer your essay about it. lol.

What I loved most about this episode was the glorious return of Elijah! All hail Daniel Gillies. I really think the casting department screwed up, LOL! Gillies is so magnificent, charming, charismatic, compelling, scene-stealing and all-around awesome, that I'm not sure there was any actor they could have cast as Klaus that could have topped Gillies' portrayal of Elijah. I'm not saying that Joseph Morgan is doing a bad job, and we still haven't see him truly in modern times, but, well, he's no Elijah.

Hehe! Exactly my thoughts.

Speaking of the brother parallel -- including Elijah as the "good brother -- I do also wonder if Elijah's comment to Elena about not caring for the doppelganger this time (while looking right at Elena) was foreshadowing. Provided, of course, that I'm right and that Elijah will be sticking around next season as a full cast member -- and he damn well should!,
Again, WAVELENGTHS! Here are my thoughts. I was thinking the whole time that he's the good brother but in length, he's just like Damon, probably overlooked and older. That's because Klaus is a werevamp (giggling over that but be back with that topic in a sec) he has more power because he's a hybrid of both of those things. Stefan has qualities of being a golden boy like Klaus but isn't all powerful. I like how they didn't make them the same like they did with Katherine and Elena.

I wonder if once Stefan and Elena are broken up (and once it happens, I do think it will be for good), he will be moved into a triangle with Caroline and Tyler (if he survives), while Elijah is moved into a triangle with not only Damon and Elena, but possibly a side triangle with Stefan and Katherine. I don't know, but it would certainly work for me as Daniel Gillies has way more chemistry with Nina Dobrev than does Paul Wesley (but not as much as Nina and Ian Somerhalder, of course, this is me).

Maybe, maybe that foreshadowing I mentioned above (re: Elijah having feelings for Elena down the line) won't be happening, but rather it was that Elijah will rediscover his feelings for Katherine,


Damn, same thoughts (as you see in my next video)!!! I think it's all that, I saw it as "Whoa! Elijah is getting more interested in Elena by the second!" then seen it as a comparison with Katherine and how she was before, sort of sweet and innocent. Thus him saying he's not making a mistake with that time with Elena. I wonder if he was in love with the original person that Katherine and Elena are doppelgangers for.

Still thinking on the original Nina Dobrev-portrayed character ... who was she? Klaus' half-sister? The wife of his father? The wife of one of his father's children?

On my rewatch, I was thinking the same thing, I would go with Klaus' half-sister because he didn't have a care in the world about her. It doesn't seem like he liked her from the start, Klaus looked like he's putting an act with Katherine.

So, Klaus is a werevamp. Cool. Very, very cool. And can I just say how much I absolutely adore that the sun and moon curse was all made up. LOLOLOLOLOL! I've read much bitching on the internet about how stupid, and needlessly convoluted the curse is, how many plot-holes are contained within, and that it's just lame. Only to find out that it was made-up by Klaus. Again, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

LOLOL! I was laughing at the fact with him being all Michael Corvin from Underworld but when you put it that way. LOL!

Hah! Alaric's confused "Elena?" and then slump/face plant. And I can "Hah!" because he's clearly not dead (yet? *bites nails in worry*) judging from next week's preview.
I couldn't help but giggle hehe!

For my shallow note, I'm hoping to God they have Elijah shirtless:



Seriously, it's just a waste...

Edited at 2011-04-23 09:49 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Elijah01arabian on April 23rd, 2011 09:50 pm (UTC)
Okay, clearly we're on same wavelengths here, so no need to go back and forth. I will just comment on the most important aspect of your response.

WE NEED TO SEE ELIJAH WITHOUT A SHIRT (or any clothes, I'm easy like that) ASAP!!!!!!!!!!

GUH!
(no subject) - danceonstardust on April 23rd, 2011 10:23 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - arabian on April 23rd, 2011 10:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
rose_marie_roserose_marie_rose on April 23rd, 2011 11:09 pm (UTC)
SUCH a great review, and such a fun read, you should write novel-length commentaries all the time :)

I so agree about Stefan being an inherently selfish person, because of how he's always been the golden boy. I love Stefan to bits, but I think that's a really important aspect of his character to keep in mind when we watch him.
Sigh, the roles we take on as siblings because of how we grow up.

And I'm on the EXACT same page as you when it comes to why Damon was so pissed off at the end of the episode. He totally just got stripped of the one role he thought he could take on in Elena's life, and Elena's just perfectly clueless and happy that she solved all their problems (as she should be, even though of course things won't work out that smoothly).

I ADORE your point about supernatural morality vs. real-life human morality. That's just how I watch the show, I judge and see things in fiction on a different scale than I would in reality. I totally understand that others don't agree, but that's the lens I view it through.

I noticed how quickly the boys stopped fighting at Elena's command as well. LOVE IT.

Thanks again for the awesome review :)
Arabian: Katherine03arabian on April 24th, 2011 12:26 pm (UTC)
I do write the novellas generally, so that works, right? LOL!

I so agree about Stefan being an inherently selfish person, because of how he's always been the golden boy. I love Stefan to bits, but I think that's a really important aspect of his character to keep in mind when we watch him. Sigh, the roles we take on as siblings because of how we grow up.

I wish I could find the post that had all that stuff about Stefan's selfishness because the back and forth touched upon Giusieppe and the brother's relationship and how it all created this atmosphere. Ah well.

e totally just got stripped of the one role he thought he could take on in Elena's life, and Elena's just perfectly clueless and happy that she solved all their problems (as she should be

Right, I'm still not sure how I totally missed that the first time, but once I was in a better frame of mind, it really was clear.

supernatural morality vs. real-life human morality

And that's exactly what it comes down to for me.

crowandfogcrowandfog on April 23rd, 2011 11:52 pm (UTC)
To begin with, I found Stefan quite fascinating in this episode. Almost all of his actions (minus the Jenna scenes), seemed motivated not by protecting Elena, but rather showing Damon up. All of his 'this is Elena's choice/respecting her decisions' read to me more like posturing and proving to Damon what an awesome boyfriend he is.

That's definitely what I thought, too, especially during that scene when he apologized to Elijah for his (limited) part in Elijah's death.

What you said about Damon walking out on Elena, Stefan, and Elijah was really insightful, and something that had kinda registered emotionally with me, but I wouldn't have been able to put it into words. Well done.

I really don't know how I feel about the Andie thing because the compulsion lines are just so freaking gray. But I did still really enjoy the scene. If, in fact, Andie was only saying those things because of feelings that Damon has planted inside her, that would actually make it even more excruciating for her to have said what she did. Because she was saying what he needed to hear the most, but even that wasn't real.

But, also, like you said, I cannot compare real-life human ethics to vampire ethics. It just doesn't work for me.

You bring up some interesting points. I like your idea about finally seeing the werewolf bite run its course. That could lead to very interesting things.

Yeah, I also noticed that Damon kept referring to Elena as Stefan's girlfriend, but I don't know if that's about restraining himself or about somehow ribbing Stefan because that seems to be what Stefan cares about most right now (meaning maintaining his precious relationship status instead of maintaining Elena's overall safety). Also, when Stefan was asking Damon where Elena was, I got the distinct Elena's missing. Why aren't you doing something about it? We should be finding her! vibe. And that is fascinating to me for a whole lot of reasons, especially after Damon's speech last week.

Edited at 2011-04-23 11:54 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Damon10arabian on April 24th, 2011 12:33 pm (UTC)
That's definitely what I thought, too, especially during that scene when he apologized to Elijah for his (limited) part in Elijah's death.

Right, it was especially obvious in that scene there, even if Stefan had his earnest face on, it still really came across like showing Damon up.

What you said about Damon walking out on Elena, Stefan, and Elijah was really insightful, and something that had kinda registered emotionally with me, but I wouldn't have been able to put it into words. Well done.

Like I said, I was just not feeling anything good on Thursday night, so the rewatch (and writing up this post) really made it much clearer.

I really don't know how I feel about the Andie thing because the compulsion lines are just so freaking gray. But I did still really enjoy the scene. If, in fact, Andie was only saying those things because of feelings that Damon has planted inside her, that would actually make it even more excruciating for her to have said what she did. Because she was saying what he needed to hear the most, but even that wasn't real.

I did think it was sad, but yeah, I didn't enjoy it, and I certainly don't enjoy Andie at all. I do hope that it was the general compulsion, though, because if it wasn't, then I'd pretty much label her one of the most pathetic women on television right now. (And I only don't call her THE most because I don't watch all television.)

I like your idea about finally seeing the werewolf bite run its course. That could lead to very interesting things.

That's just something that really struck me when Damon staked Rose. She didn't actually die from the werewolf bite.

Yeah, I also noticed that Damon kept referring to Elena as Stefan's girlfriend, but I don't know if that's about restraining himself or about somehow ribbing Stefan because that seems to be what Stefan cares about most right now (meaning maintaining his precious relationship status instead of maintaining Elena's overall safety).

I noticed it in the last episode too, but he did it a few times in this episode and it just really struck me. I don't know if it's him reminding himself to keep his distance or ribbing at Stefan. But it is an interesting little character note.

Also, when Stefan was asking Damon where Elena was, I got the distinct Elena's missing. Why aren't you doing something about it? We should be finding her! vibe. And that is fascinating to me for a whole lot of reasons, especially after Damon's speech last week.

I don't know, I just rewatched that part and I didn't get that vibe. He just seemed more annoyed with Damon (and his Andie use) than anything else. But I do think that everything else (ie, the posturing) was in relation to Damon's speech last week.
Heather-Annlinsell_farm on April 24th, 2011 01:11 am (UTC)
Great insight, as usual, Jennifer.

I agree, Stefan is used to being the chosen one and his actions lately do seem more about preserving his self-image, and keeping his & Elena's relationship in tact, and full of self-importance. This is why Stefan irks me so. He does have positive qualities as well, but I've never liked people who are self-important.
Stefan emotionally staking Damon made my Damon-defenses jump into overdrive. I seriously wanted to blast Stefan for saying that to him.

Your explanation of Damon's reaction makes brilliant sense to me. Elena stood there with her teenage pride while totally usurping the only role that Damon has allowed himself in this whole mess. GAWD. What a extremely tangled up situation this is.

Andie's attempt at getting through to Damon, I felt, was courageous of her, although futile. I was glad to see that he did not kill her, which was the most that he was capable of in that moment.

That scene screamed "exisential crisis" to me, and what made it even more painful is that no one else is witnessing how much Damon is struggling with this, or the baby steps of his progress. I so very much want to see some resolution to this. How much more can my bb Damon take????

I am totally on Ship Elijah!!! I adored him & Kat in medieval garb and their chemistry is fabulous. It was clear to me that he cared about her in 1492. They both rocked the English accents. I can see soooo many possibilities of triangles including Elijah. I sooooo hope the show makes him a permanent character next season.

I wondered about the Kat dancing around Alaric's apt. scene, as well. I get that she was happy about not being compelled anymore but was that reaction really warranted? On my rewatch it seemed more like a "hype the song" scene. I would have loved more of the Jenna realization.

The brothers stopping and leaping apart at Elena's "Stop!" grasped my attention as well. She certainly has some kind of power over them.

Joseph Morgan didn't really do anything for me as Klaus (in 1492 or present-day), but then it's not his fault that he's up against the awesomeness of Daniel Gillies playing Elijah.

This episode has certainly has me with all kinds of questions about the next 3 episodes. Can't believe this season is almost over :o(



Arabian: Elijah & Katherine02arabian on April 24th, 2011 12:40 pm (UTC)
This is why Stefan irks me so. He does have positive qualities as well, but I've never liked people who are self-important.

It doesnt't irk me, I suppose, because it keeps Stefan from being perfect. He acts like he is (LOL!), but he really isn't, and I like that the show is constantly showing us the good and bad sides in small moments and actions that both brothers have.

Stefan emotionally staking Damon made my Damon-defenses jump into overdrive. I seriously wanted to blast Stefan for saying that to him.

But, but, but, Damon just flat-out said he wanted his girlfriend, and admitted that he was in love with said girlfriend. Stefan is just supposed to take it?

Your explanation of Damon's reaction makes brilliant sense to me. Elena stood there with her teenage pride while totally usurping the only role that Damon has allowed himself in this whole mess.

Exactly. She was so proud of herself, and had no clue in that moment what she'd taken from Damon.

Andie's attempt at getting through to Damon, I felt, was courageous of her, although futile.

See, I didn't find it courageous in the least -- if it wasn't under compulsion. He was emotionally and physically abusing her. Her ass should have been gone; no woman should put up with that, and any one who does only makes me feel sorry for her weakness and inability to leave. So I *hope* it's the compulsion.

That scene screamed "exisential crisis" to me, and what made it even more painful is that no one else is witnessing how much Damon is struggling with this, or the baby steps of his progress.

I agree that I would like to see someone else see how much he is struggling and fighting those impulses, but this still read to me like a tantrum, LOL!
I so very much want to see some resolution to this. How much more can my bb Damon take????

I am totally on Ship Elijah!!! I adored him & Kat in medieval garb and their chemistry is fabulous. It was clear to me that he cared about her in 1492. They both rocked the English accents. I can see soooo many possibilities of triangles including Elijah. I sooooo hope the show makes him a permanent character next season.

Yes, yes, yes, all of this!

I wondered about the Kat dancing around Alaric's apt. scene, as well. I get that she was happy about not being compelled anymore but was that reaction really warranted? On my rewatch it seemed more like a "hype the song" scene.

I actually like that description better than one I just read which was TVD copying the Damon dancing scene from 1.06 and making a parallel there. That one felt seamless and fit in the show; this did not.

I would have loved more of the Jenna realization.

Yeah!

Joseph Morgan didn't really do anything for me as Klaus (in 1492 or present-day), but then it's not his fault that he's up against the awesomeness of Daniel Gillies playing Elijah.

I'm hoping that we'll get a better feel when we see Klaus in modern day through the whole episode, you know?
(no subject) - linsell_farm on April 24th, 2011 01:47 pm (UTC) (Expand)
PS - linsell_farm on April 24th, 2011 01:58 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Sarpaceisthetrick on April 24th, 2011 11:34 am (UTC)
"His "Go to hell" to Elena (and the others) confused me at first, but the rewatch made it all perfectly clear. Stefan had just brought that point home, and now here comes Elena with Elijah in tow, essentially saying that yeah, I've got this bigger, bad-ass vampire in my backpocket who knows all the secrets, can save my friend and me! And from Damon's end, it felt like yet another rejection, a repudiation."

EXACTLY!!! I love how you understand Damon. :) It's just so... well, correct. And your thoughts on abuse were perfectly stated. Thank you for pointing out the many OTHER vampires that use humans too. It escapes me why the fandom think Damon is the only "evil" guy in town. He's a vampire. When it comes down to it, it's a food chain. The better predator always wins. That may sound harsh, but it's true.

Daniel Gillies is incredible. I loved him in Spider-Man and Bride & Prejudice. Plus I share my birthday with him. Yeah... such a fangirl moment.

And, yeah, after this episode, I'm officially shipping Elijah and Katherine. -- Please join & promote: kat_elijah. We gotta get together and have some fun. They're such an interesting dynamic with years and years of history to explore. WEEE.

" I found it interesting -- yes, I found a lot of things interesting in this episode -- that when Elena said "Stop!" when the boys were fighting, they immediately, and I mean immediately, stopped. Don't know why it struck me so, but it did." It reminded me of a romantic comedy movie or something of the sort.

"But I don't get the point of us watching Katherine randomly dance around for 30-40 seconds." I've heard theories that this the writers telling us she's the female Damon. *rolls eyes*

"Hmm, so in the short preview, Elijah said "I believe the term you're looking for is OMG." Yet, in the extended preview he said, "I believe the term you're looking for is OMFG." But in the episode last night, he used the first phrase. Man, I was looking forward to the second. Ah well." DAMN TVD. WHY DO YOU ALWAYS CHANGE YOUR PROMOS & EPISODES? IT SUCKS. GET IT TOGETHER.

I wish Damon went back to calling Elena "our Girlfriend", it way more fun.
Arabian: Damon&Stefan01arabian on April 24th, 2011 12:44 pm (UTC)
EXACTLY!!! I love how you understand Damon. :) It's just so... well, correct.

Thank you. It took a bit of time to make sense, but yeah, I think I got it in the end. :)

And your thoughts on abuse were perfectly stated. Thank you for pointing out the many OTHER vampires that use humans too. It escapes me why the fandom think Damon is the only "evil" guy in town. He's a vampire. When it comes down to it, it's a food chain. The better predator always wins. That may sound harsh, but it's true.

Gosh, this! But I suppose when one is the most popular character they are going to get the most hate too generally, sigh.

fter this episode, I'm officially shipping Elijah and Katherine. -- Please join & promote: kat_elijah. We gotta get together and have some fun. They're such an interesting dynamic with years and years of history to explore. WEEE.

They're great; I love when Katherine looked back at him when Klaus took her away. I did join, and I'll add a link in the post about the comm. :)

I've heard theories that this the writers telling us she's the female Damon. *rolls eyes*

Someone above said it felt like a song hype. That makes sense too. I'd actually prefer that over this.

I wish Damon went back to calling Elena "our Girlfriend", it way more fun.

Right, and I think that's it right there. It's not fun for Damon anymore. It's like he's self-flagellating himself every time he says it, you know?
gidget_84gidget_84 on April 27th, 2011 08:20 am (UTC)
Yay, almost Vampire diaries day again!

Each triangle you suggested for next season I would love to see. I just really want Elijah and Katherine to stick around and for Stefan to go away from Elena..omg..so boring those two. I'm totally on board thought for caroline/stefan or stefan/katherine. I'm also guilty of wanting elijah/elena..can't help it, they're both so pretty. :)

I need to watch this episode again, because I was so confused regarding the whole "fake" curse bit. So maybe you can help me out here.
The sun/moon curse was made up by Klaus, why? And, witches or whoever the original doppleganger was made it so he can't access the wolf part of himself which is what he wants, so he can make a super wereworlf/vampire race, correct?
So the actual curse is, is that he can't change into a wolf anymore, and therefore he still needs to sacrafice the doppleganger in order to remove this curse?

lol...so confused.
Arabian: Katherine04arabian on April 27th, 2011 10:41 pm (UTC)
The sun/moon curse was made up by Klaus, why?

Klaus made it up so that both vampires AND werewolves would be looking for the moonstone and doppelganger and bring it to his attention. That way he had double the number of individuals looking for it.

And, witches or whoever the original doppleganger was made it so he can't access the wolf part of himself which is what he wants, so he can make a super wereworlf/vampire race, correct?

Yes. Too much power in one individual, thus blocking his were-side.

So the actual curse is, is that he can't change into a wolf anymore, and therefore he still needs to sacrafice the doppleganger in order to remove this curse?

He never could change into a wolf, that never happened (as far as we know), but yes, the curse he wants broken is so that he can access both of his vampire and werewolf sides.
eolivet on April 28th, 2011 07:36 pm (UTC)
We're in agreement about pretty much everything but one thing in this ep. :D I LOVED it. Maybe my second favorite of the season. I loved that you mentioned the limited cast, because I think that had a lot to do with how strong it was. Just great actors (Daniel Gilles, Nina Dobrev, Ian Somerhalder in parts) acting the heck out of their characters. I was riveted every time Elena and Elijah were onscreen. ITA she has 10 times better chemistry with him than Paul Wesley. I could SO get behind a Damon/Elena/Elijah triangle (if Katherine ends up dying at the end of the season. ;)

Also wanted to say a big WORD to this:

I'm just saying that I personally can not compare the portrayal of a supernatural vampire's treatment of humans -- he can be as awful to males as he is females -- to the portrayal of a non-supernatural, reality-based human's treatment of another human, or even to an abusive human in real life.

That's me, as well. I 'ship adultery, I have 'shipped incest, I've 'shipped (consensual) relationships when one party is underage. I've cheered for serial killers. IN. FICTION. Huge difference. Bringing RL morals into shows never, EVER ends well, so I just don't do it. It's a time to switch off my brain and just enjoy a story. :)

The one scene that didn't hang together for me was AlariKlaus/Jenna/Stefan. I think because it was coming off the fantastic acting and intricate storytelling of the Elena/Elijah scenes, so to me, it felt like amateur hour, acting-wise. All three are decent (Wesley is more in the OK range), and it felt clunky to me. "I am obsessed with vampires." Really? Eh. But then again, I was SO into the Elena/Elijah and Elijah/Katherine/Klaus stuff that I would've preferred to just had an entire hour of that. :D

Fantastic storytelling and fabulous acting, with a ton of OMG (or OMFG, hee!) moments. And oh, the parallel storytelling. I have such love for the parallel storytelling. :) Definitely one of the strongest eps of the season. :D

(...explain to me why we have to get Stefan/Elena schmoopiness tonight after that tour-de-force last week? ;)
nasha233 on April 28th, 2011 08:58 pm (UTC)
we so agree
Can I just say you read my mind! Do you know that when I first viewed this episode I was slumped too and couldn't make out how I felt about it. I was puzzled and befuddled. Usually I always come out with some feelings, bad or good or an episode at least what I got from it. This last episode, I just was stuck. It took the second viewing for me to get it too.
Then I got busy getting on a plane going overseas to get a chance to read your review and I am so happy someone felt the same and got what I saw.

I believe Stefan inherently is good and tries to be good but for him the personal appearance to be good supercede the reason for doing good. It is not a bad thing but he does good, to look good. Or to look good he does good. Appearing good and doing good is one in the same for him. In the end when he does good, no one judges him. And he is the favorite son or the preferred one by everyone. Making good appearance easy.

I too think he does truly loves Damon. And as messed up as Damon has been, he backs up the guy. And sometimes because of his love for Damon is also what gets to Damon. Emotionally Stefan is far more less affected than Damon. Stefan loves but not passionately or crazily like Damon. He loves but he is always a stable creature who learned to reign himself in. It goes with everything he does. In the end even if he lost Elena's love or they break up, Stefan will be heart broken but he will move on.

Damon Damon Damon, this vampire has some issues. I agree with you completely what a human will do and a vampire are two different things. I was having a debate about this regarding how Damon fans are disappointed on where his character is going and that he is regressing and not happy with writers. While I see the opposite. I feel the writers are doing such a great job that is why the writing on these characters are true to how everything was from the start and the progression.

Vampires by nature are killers who is enthralled by the fear when biting a human and the killing. Their survival instinct and the need for blood and inability to feel is inherently very vampire like. For us that I feel while Damon regressed he progressed too given the vampire nature in him. Lets not forget he has been at this callous murderer for more than 140 years to change that to caring isnt going to be a click of fingers. So he has to learn and I find how it is written make the story believable and the journey of Damon so real. And I agree it will be Elena who will help him. I do feel Damon needs Elena. Needs her goodness to make him better, to complete him. Elena herself needs Damon selfless love for her compassionate self. They are a pair, she just cant see it yet and he doesnt know how to fight for it yet. And his statement about actually going for her was a change of tone towards Stefan. Part of why he hasn't fully pursue Elena is one he really believes Elena won't love him. the other is his love for Stefan. And also he doesn't believe he deserved her love.

I think that is changing now. I think from "The Last Dance", he is starting to see he can be deserving. And that maybe she can learn to love him. That journey and the past in all tangled in his screwed up mind. And sometimes it is just easier to lash out to the next best thing. I agree Damon's action towards Andie was plain abusive. Yet at the same time, as a vampire he is fighting his natural instinct. He is such an emotional creature. Everything he does is at the end or the spectrum....high high high. Unlike Stefan he doesn't know how to just compartmentalize and say it is no big deal. He overreacts but now he has learn to regret his bad actions and trying to be good. That is real progress. Again I feel this show is so much about Damon's journey and his tribulations.

CONT.........
nasha233 on April 28th, 2011 08:59 pm (UTC)
Re: we so agree
CONT from above.........

I love the Salvatore brothers, their love, their hate. And I think writers have been great at making this distinction of the brothers. Again our minds...I feel the similarities that Stefan and Elijah have are more skin deep, at the surface level. I actually have always been a big fan of Team Awesome (Damon/Elijah). I find while they were on opposite end, they have a great respect of each other's abilities. And Daniel Gilles is such a find. I kept thinking shouldn't he be the older bro because he sure looks like it. I adore J.Morgan on tweeter so I am willing to give modern day Klaus with interaction with others a chance.

Part of why I get Damon's apprehension of Elijah is that, they tried to kill Elijah twice. So to trust him fully to kill his brother is foolish. I think Damon was wise to take two steps back to not jump with two feet. Again just like Stefan, without fully understanding it or even meaning it, since Elena wants him to, he apologized. Does he mean it? Did he get what it entailed, that is secondary. Doing the right thing in front of Elena it the utmost. While Damon rather do the wrong thing than lie about it.

Thank you again for sharing your view which I clearly subscribe. I feel at times when I read what you say, it is as if my brain spoke. hahahaha. Looking forward to today and what you will say.
Re: we so agree - nasha233 on April 28th, 2011 09:02 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on July 14th, 2012 06:38 am (UTC)
Compulsion is done in the moment. In the last scene Damon says I thought I told you to leave and Andi replies, you didn't compel me. Damon compelled her to keep his secrets but he does not control her completely. Shes says she's there because she wants to be there. "just let me be here." "You need to know that somebody cares for you, I care for you Damon" all said of her own volition.
Arabian: Damon09arabian on October 15th, 2012 10:20 pm (UTC)
Yes, she said those words of her own volition, but we know that Damon had compelled her earlier to think he was the greatest boyfriend ever and that she luvvvved him. Her own words were taken from an overall compulsion of how she feels about him, and if she someone believes they feel that way about their guy, they are going to do/say what Andie did.
bangel_4e: delena2bangel_4e on April 24th, 2013 11:45 am (UTC)
I'm completely with you on the vampire mindset thing and on the general feeling you can't compare the two.
It's what I always said and I'm glad you share my point of view.

I should sit back and read all your analysis as soon as I have a bit of free time. They're very interesting, I love your insight on the episodes.
Arabian: Damon & Elena25arabian on April 24th, 2013 11:54 am (UTC)
Thank you. You know that on my sidebar I have a TVD Round-up post with TONS of links to all of my TVD posts. :)
Sajen FreybergSajen Freyberg on May 13th, 2017 07:32 am (UTC)
Damon's Go to Hell has nothing to do with rejection and everything to do with not trusting Elijah and being disgusted by Stefan and Elena for doing so.

Arabian: Damon12arabian on May 14th, 2017 04:48 pm (UTC)
When I do my rewatch I'll take that interpretation into account.