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11 December 2010 @ 09:48 am
Some hope for Damon/Elena (thank goodness!)  
I'll try and get to responses to the episode post this weekend (I gotta say though, I find it odd that a negative post gets so many more responses than my usual OMG!HAPPYHAPPYJOYJOY posts about TVD, hmm...), but I wanted to comment on something related to the episode. Kevin Williamson gave an interview with The New York Post (vague-ish spoilers for the second half of the season with one significant casting spoiler, but more discussion about the first half), and there was an interesting bit about Damon and Elena.

I've been trying to figure out why I was so bummed about the (lack of) Damon/Elena, Damon/Rose and Stefan/Elena stuff in the last episode when normally (with this show), I can just brush off the shippy aspects that don't float my boat. Well, I realized last night it's simply that because even when that fails me, the show itself is so amazing that I can revel in and enjoy all of the rest. "By the Light of the Moon" just didn't do that for me. Perhaps if it wasn't the last episode before a long hiatus, it wouldn't have been as bad, I don't know. I just know that very little about last night's episode wowed me, and so all I keep thinking of is the thing that I love most about the show (Damon/Elena) and how they were pretty much kinda shat all over in the episode.

Cuz they totally were. Stefan locked away, and we got one dinky scene that was shared with Jeremy mostly, and pretty much had no depth at all. Elena and Stefan back together for real (nice to know for sure that they actually were broken up, :rolls eyes:), and then Damon being all into and concerned for Rose ... amplified by the promo which showed a way-too caring Damon. I mean, I was fine with Damon and Rose when she was just his fuck-buddy, but the intensity of feelings we saw on display towards the end, tied in with the promo was just too much. And paired with the last Stefan/Elena scene, the almost complete lack of Damon/Elena (especially after the show itself geared viewers up for an expectation of some good stuff in this episode and possibly more), it was like a stake to my shipper heart. (Excuse the pun.) And this time, I didn't have the overall awesomeness of the episode to counteract that.

So, yeah, bummer.

However, a particular quote from Williamson's interview makes me feel a lot better on that front, so, I'm relieved. I don't like being bummed over The Vampire Diaries. It's my OMG!I LOVE YOU SO MUCH! show. I don't want to lose that. Anyhoo, the quote:
"Rose and Damon aren't meant to be together. She is a mirror into his humanity. She came in, helped him out, gave him some information and is now saying, we’ll never love each other because you’re in love with Elena. It’s all about Elena – the whole point of Rose is to throw up a mirror and let Damon see what he is. She’s so open about Damon loving Elena. Rose is just one more step in Damon’s journey."
As much as I'm so over Stefan and Elena at this point, I'm still seeing a lack of narrative thrust or careful crafting in the writing of their pairing. The fact that viewers weren't sure if they were together or not prior to this episode (and it wasn't just me, I read countless comments unsure of their state, some even flat-out thinking that they were back together), shows that the care is just not there. And when they do write about them? It's rather lather, rinse, repeat. One of my few issues with the first half of season one (once past episode three), was the back-and-forth merry-go-round with Stefan and Elena. And, oh, lookee, we're doing it again. It's not fun. With these two, it's just the same ole, same ole with them every time.

On the other hand, there is so much material with Damon and Elena. Viewers know where they stand with them, where the two stand with each other completely. And the quote from Kevin to me shows just how much time and effort they foresee putting into the Damon/Elena story. Because that's essentially what he said it is. He spoke about how Rose is a part of Damon's journey, and tied in with that was how it's all about Rose being so open about Damon's love for Elena. Therefore, I don't think it's unrealistic to make the leap that Damon's journey is thus intrinsically tied in with Elena. That's definitely a good thing. And something I definitely needed to hear when left with an episode that disappointed me so greatly. I know the show can return to its greatness -- one meh episode in a sea of awesome is not that big of a deal -- but that mehness paired with such shippy letdown was really getting me down. This quote gives me hope. So yay!

ETA: Hmm, comments have oddly become "in defense of Rose, and the Rose/Damon relationship." LOL!
 
 
 
Taylah: stefan/carolinex_rose_tyler_x on December 11th, 2010 02:54 pm (UTC)
I actually thought this? I mean, I don't dislike Rose at all because, like Williamson says, she pretty much knows Damon is not gonna be in love with her, and she is okay with that. But that doesn't mean that Damon is not going to worry or care about her, because that is a step, seeing that he can actually CARE for someone other than Elena or Stefan, it's a way to remind him that there's humanity inside of him.

I wasn't very worried with this episode, I actually enjoyed it a lot and I haven't read your review but I remember you saying the type of cliffhanger you thought there would be for this episode. Still I think at this point, it would have been rushing it.

(And yet I would have loved to see Stefan stuck in the cave for longer but it's okay)
Arabian: Stefan & Caroline03arabian on December 11th, 2010 02:59 pm (UTC)
I think it was just getting Rose and Damon, then Stefan and Elena, then Rose and Damon again, THEN the promo showing Stefan and Elena sucking face, then Damon being all uber-concerned (in a way we've ONLY ever seen him for Stefan and Elena), paired with an episode that let me down was just way too much. I just don't think they've done the best job layering the Rose stuff, but that could very well be the actress. She hasn't impressed me at all, and her character is easily THE lamest they've ever had on this show.

Also, it's just that whenever I've had high expectations for this show, they exceed them, so, to be disappointed really hit me hard. You know how much I adore this show! Basically, my big disappointment with the episode is that the ep before set up tons of questions, and we got answers to them and they were all pretty much a whole lotta nothing.

ETA: luna301 encapsulated my issue with one perfect phrase: The writers set up all these guns and deciding not to fire any.

Plus, I am a die-hard Damon/Elena fan first and foremost with regard to any particular aspect, and normally, when I don't get stuff with them or have to deal with the opposite of them, I have the awesomeness of the show to fall back on. That didn't happen this time. I was disappoint. :(

Edited at 2010-12-11 03:04 pm (UTC)
Taylah: stefan/carolinex_rose_tyler_x on December 11th, 2010 03:13 pm (UTC)
Haha I'm a bit annoyed by the actress, too, especially her accent, and I don't mind when she's killed off but I don't mind her being alive, either, I'm quite indifferent.

I would have liked a bit more of Stefan and Katherine stuck in the tomb with her playing mind games with him, not going to lie, and I agree that the episode seemed quite auto-conclusive if you think about it as a whole, but, from the Damon/Elena point of view (I'm not die-hard, but I've grown to love them quite a lot), I don't think things are that bad. But probably having Stefan stuck in the tomb while Damon was going through these changes with Rose would have been great, because Elena would see him changing and start considering him again, BUT THEN AGAIN, this might as well happen with Stefan out of the tomb so it doesn't really count either.

Anyway I think the most disappointing storyline of the episode was Elijah's, I don't know if they didn't know what to do with him or what the hell is gonna happen but it didn't make much sense to me, it's weird.

Also, oh my God, I'm SO GLAD there's Alaric/Damon bromance again, I MISSED THEM. I actually missed Alaric having any type of screentime at all to be honest.

And God I thank you so much for introducing me to the show, if someone had told me this show would be one of my favorites of the year I wouldn't have believed them, but look at me now! Hahaha.
Arabian: Stefan & Caroline02arabian on December 11th, 2010 03:21 pm (UTC)
Pretty much agree with every word you wrote here.

And God I thank you so much for introducing me to the show, if someone had told me this show would be one of my favorites of the year I wouldn't have believed them, but look at me now! Hahaha.

As disappointed as I was in this episode (and I am hopeful a rewatch of all of s1 and the first 11 eps of s2 in a row --and without any high expectations for this ep -- will help it play better), I still love this show so very much, and I'm so glad that I've gotten a good handful of my flist mind-twins to watch it as well. It really is fantastic. You are VERY welcome. :)
sweetiegrrl2346sweetiegrrl2346 on December 11th, 2010 03:45 pm (UTC)
Lol, you are such my mind twin sometimes. I was feeling kinda crappy after the ep, too, but this interview really perked me up. Not that I expected them to make D/R a real and epic *thing* or anything, but it was nice to see KW confirm it.

After a.couple.days of mulling it over, I figured out exactly WHY the Damon/Rose thing bothers me so much. It's not because I'm a die-hard Delena shipper (although, HELL YEAH I am!). It's because the "feelings" Damon supposedly has for her are beyond forced and make no sense in the context of this incredibly deep and complex character we've watched open up and develop over the past year.

First off, I can't see Damon even developing a begrudging respect for Rose, let alone any sort of admiration or *feelings*. If there's one trait that we've been shown that Damon respects and admires, it is a core strength and conviction of character. This is not Rose. If anything, this is the *opposite* of Rose. After knowing her for four episodes, the only thing we really know about Rose is that she might be a loyal friend, but she's quick to get the Hell out of dodge if her neck is on the line.

The friendship developing between D/R is completely unearned IMO. They're trying so hard to be like, "Oh look! Someone actually cares about Damon! it sure is gonna be heartbreaking when she dies now!" that they don't seem to realize this makes no sense. it took Elena at least half a season to earn Damon's respect and admiration and over a season for Jim to admit he cared about his own freaking brother!
Arabian: Damon & Elena07arabian on December 11th, 2010 03:52 pm (UTC)
Well, to be fair, Damon didn't show any kind of deeper caring/understanding UNTIL she jumped in front of him and took what she thought was a fatal bite to save his life. That pretty much earned the final scene. So, yeah, I do get that. Because prior to that scene, we did have her giving him some hard truths about the humanity switch in "Katerina" and that did show something there, but still, he was pretty blase and whatever about her. So I think they've played fair with that.

Still, yes, that interview/quote really helped me get over my issue, LOL!
sweetiegrrl2346sweetiegrrl2346 on December 11th, 2010 04:18 pm (UTC)
You do have a point that he didn't seem TOO taken with her until after the bite, but the couch flirtiness afterwards was what I couldn't buy, especially his semi-hopeful "You sure?" after Rose said they'd just be friends. Not only did this woman kidnap Elena and then unwittingly aid her in her suicide mission, but she hasn't shown one hint of a backbone for a supposedly badass 500 year old vamp, besides diving in front of a wolf bite. Her "dont get angry at me" line from last ep still has me rolling my eyes. I almost wish they'd kept Anna or Pearl or, hell, even Harper around to suffer the werewolf bite because they would've been expendable, but I would've actually cared about what happened to them and I think Damon's despair over their deaths would've rung more genuine (well, for Anna/Pearl anyway).
Arabian: Damon & Elena05arabian on December 11th, 2010 04:33 pm (UTC)
I think it's easier to forgive a person for doing something terrible when you get the why behind it (fears for their own life), and more importantly when the person the badness was inflicted against forgives them. After all, what Damon did to Jeremy was much worse than what Rose did (and why even), but Elena is already back to admitting she cares about him, and I think a part of that is because Jeremy is fine with Damon. Same thing with Rose, Elena is clearly fine with Rose and forgives her for her part in the kidnapping. As for helping Elena's suicide mission, Rose didn't know what Elena was doing, and once she did, she called Damon. It's not her fault that Elena did what she did.

The "you sure?" I'm fine with because it didn't seem that he was upset about not having her in his life, she already said they were friends (and, again, she'd just risked her life to save his, and that doesn't happen very often for Damon). To me it was all about, but I like having regular sex and not having to worry about cleaning up afterwards or dealing with expected feelings. It's just a guy wanting to continue getting laid, and both are well aware that that is all it is, which is why I liked Kevin's quote so much. It completely confirmed that's what it was about. They are just fuck buddies.

she hasn't shown one hint of a backbone for a supposedly badass 500 year old vamp

Ah, but when were we ever told/shown she's a "badass?" Yeah, she's 500 years old, but go back to her introduction in "Katerina," she was scared then. We've never been given any indication that she's a badass. In fact, it makes sense that she's not, if she started running not long after she became a vampire. Unlike most who become a vampire and suddenly come into this power, it sure seems like shortly after becoming a vampire, Rose was shown very quickly how powerless she is, and that she can be taken down like *that.* She and the person she cared most for. So, it makes perfect sense that she is as she is because she's never really had the belief that she's so powerful. She came into her vampire power and shortly thereafter, it was made clear to her that she's still on a lower rung on the totem pole.

As for next episode, and Damon's upset -- this is someone who is showing him another way to be a vampire (different from Katherine, which clearly is no longer going to work for him, or Stefan, which REALLY won't work for him). She's giving him actual knowledge on dealing with aspects of life as a vampire from someone who's been around a while that can legitimately help him still be the vampire he enjoys being, but also keep those he loves (Stefan, Elena, Alaric, etc.) in his life without hating him. That's a BIG deal.

And again, she took a known fatal injury for him to save his life. That's a REALLY BIG deal.

So, yeah, I get it.

Edited at 2010-12-11 04:42 pm (UTC)
sweetiegrrl2346sweetiegrrl2346 on December 11th, 2010 04:43 pm (UTC)
Ah, but when were we ever told/shown she's a "badass." Yeah, she's 500 years old, but go back to her introduction in "Katerina," she was scared then. We've never been given any indication that she's a badass.

LOL, this is true. I guess I'm used to all the vamps this show introduces being so BAMF that it's extra disappointing when one ISN'T. :)
Arabian: Elena03arabian on December 11th, 2010 04:45 pm (UTC)
Right, that's how I felt before last week (I mean, ep 10). After that one, I just accepted that Rose was NOT supposed to be a badass, she's a lame-ass vampire and is *supposed* to be a lame-ass vampire, so it amuses me, LOL!
sweetiegrrl2346sweetiegrrl2346 on December 11th, 2010 04:02 pm (UTC)
Oops, accidentally posted this before I was finished ranting, LOL.

Anyways, all we've seen from Rose is that she's a selfish, albeit occasionally loyal, pussy. These are two traits that we've been *shown* that Damon isn't fond of, so there's no way I'm gonna buy this insta-bffness and faux drama they're laying down. Nuh uh. I actually coulda been happy to see Damon develop a new friendship, regardless of sex-buddy status, but this is forced and almost cheapens the emotional progress Damon's made with people who've earned his friendship, like Liz and Ric.

I get why the writers did it, really I do. They needed to introduce a.Vamp who we'd sorta develop an emotional connection with but could easily be killed off to show the serious threat the wolves pose to the vampires we actually care about. They just tried to force us too hard into accepting and caring about Rose, so in the end the storyline just comes off sloppy and fails.

And don't even get me started on the S/E break-up-that-never-was slop-fest. :(

Okay, rant over now. ^_^
Arabian: Damon&Liz01arabian on December 11th, 2010 04:38 pm (UTC)
Again, what I said above. She has a very, very legitimate reason for her fear. And I wouldn't call her "occasionally" loyal at all. She was loyal to Trevor for FIVE HUNDRED YEARS. She could have turned him over, saved herself at any time likely, but she didn't. She also showed loyalty to Slater to a degree, and she DID call Damon as soon as she realized what Elena was up to. That showed a loyalty to him.

I went into above why I get Damon feeling close to her. As great as the build-up of friendships with Liz and Ric are, they were a different beast. Rose -- being a vampire who chooses to be a "good" vampire, as opposed to being a martyred and suffering "good" vampire like Stefan -- will present a connection with him because of that. I think if Anna hadn't died, we could have seen something similar (without the sex) develop there. And as for Liz and Ric and those friendships, I think they are key as to why he's opening up to Rose. How he is with Rose wouldn't have happened without Liz and Ric ... and Elena. It's because he's seen that people can care about him, and he can care back with some degree of faith, that he's allowing himself to open up to new people who appear to care for him/have his back. As Rose does. She proved that by taking the wolf bite. Big-time.

And don't even get me started on the S/E break-up-that-never-was slop-fest. :(

Yeah. :(

ETA: My editing sucks; I apologize. :(

Edited at 2010-12-11 04:44 pm (UTC)
[classified]: ❝everything will be all right.❞sakuravalentine on December 11th, 2010 05:02 pm (UTC)
Hello, was led here from damon_elena comm...

I find it odd that a negative post gets so many more responses than my usual OMG!HAPPYHAPPYJOYJOY posts about TVD

Don't worry. It's all about letting off steam. It's easier to let out frustration, especially in a place where you know others agree with you, than just hold it in. :) Now that the initial reaction has blown over, a lot of people have calmed down significantly and seem to feel a whole lot better, at least where Damon/Elena is concerned. I am one of those people.

I agree that the episode was pretty terrible in general aside from... very few things such as Tyler's story, and on top of that, some scenes just felt like a slap to my, er, shipper face. The disappointment was too much to handle when I'd been so geared up for another great TVD night. I'm relieved, though, after thinking about it some more (one meh in a sea of awesome episodes is not that bad, as you put it) and reading that interview. I now realize that there were really no slaps to my shipper face, it just felt that way. It's all just more of Damon and Elena's epic awesome journey. XD

Also, somebody mentioned Rose's accent in these comments, was it you? XD Because ITA! It grates on my ears for some reason, and takes all the inflection out of her voice so she sounds like a robot half the time. Is it weird that I might not find Rose that annoying if it weren't for that? I've just been wondering to myself, is it a fake accent?
Arabian: Damon01arabian on December 11th, 2010 05:08 pm (UTC)
Hello. :Waves:

Yeah, it makes sense that a negative posts gets more responses for reasons of blowing off steam. All of my OMG!I LOVE THIS SHOW SO MUCH! (seriously, check out most of my post-episode posts and that's what they are filled with in rambling, analytical detail) generally just gets variations on the squee, LOL!

I'm thinking that without the expectation and getting where they were going with Damon and Rose, the episode will play better overall much more. (I plan on rewatching all of s1 and 1-11 of S2 during my Christmas break from work.)

I'm relieved, though, after thinking about it some more (one meh in a sea of awesome episodes is not that bad, as you put it) and reading that interview. I now realize that there were really no slaps to my shipper face, it just felt that way. It's all just more of Damon and Elena's epic awesome journey. XD

Absolutely. That's how I'm looking at it now.

Re: Rose's accent. Nah, wasn't me. I don't have a problem with Rose, really. And now that I know they aren't trying to sneak her in as some great love for Damon, I'm totally cool with it. That was my fear with the last scene and the preview for the next episode.
Serena: ian+nina_airportserenachan on December 11th, 2010 05:47 pm (UTC)
(I gotta say though, I find it odd that a negative post gets so many more responses than my usual OMG!HAPPYHAPPYJOYJOY posts about TVD, hmm...),
The episode discussion for the latest episode at damon_elena has almost twice as many comments as the one for the episode before, and 100 comments more than the one for Rose. I... do not understand.
Arabian: Ian & Nina05arabian on December 11th, 2010 05:56 pm (UTC)
It's just sad; but that is so life. I mean, people tend to complain more than praise. I knew how bad the DE thread was going to be for this ep after I watched it, I didn't even step inside. Whatever issues I had with this ep, I still adore the show and love mostly what Kevin and Julie have done, and I knew that tempers were going to be high and it wouldn't be pretty. Understandably. I don't think I could deal with it, though. :(
Heather-Annlinsell_farm on December 11th, 2010 09:58 pm (UTC)
Hope Restored
I was trying to figure out why I was so disappointed in "In the Light of the Moon" as well and the reason you gave makes compete sense to me. It was the combination of several things: the set-up from "The Sacrifice", the next-to-nothing interaction between D and E, then the sequence of DR, SE, DR again, then the promo for "The Descent". In particular, the huge difference between the spectacular DE chemistry coupled with the ever-present hidden meaning in their words in The Sacrifice and the measly, short, shared-with-Jeremy, Elena-with-her puss-face scene in this episode, was hard to take.

I do not want to be down about my "OMG I love this show" show.

So, thank you for posting the interview with Kev Williamson. I feel much better seeing Rose as a mirror. She will be a good step in Damon's story. He does need to see that he can care and feel for other people besides Elena.

I'll admit that initially my shipper heart did not like Rose in principle. How dare a character come along to bring out the humanity in Damon, when prior to that it was only Elena who saw that. I realize now that I was being just slightly over-protective of DE.

As far as SE goes, I'm with the rest of you in the "glad to see they actually broke up (rolls eyes)" boat. I saw no meaning in their "time apart". Enough said.

Like you said, "one meh episode in a sea of awesome is not that big of a deal". I'm planning on re-watching all of S1 and the first 10 episodes of S2. I believe you are right that 2x11 won't be so much of a letdown after that.

Thank you for giving back hope to your fellow die-hard Delena shippers <3
Arabian: Ian & Nina03arabian on December 12th, 2010 04:56 pm (UTC)
Re: Hope Restored
It was the combination of several things

Yup. And on top of all you mentioned, it was also the last ep we'd get for another five weeks. Just, gah! Yuck, nooooooo!

I do not want to be down about my "OMG I love this show" show.

I know! That bugs so much. I am SUCH a couple-girl when it comes to TV that my moods about the show always revolve around how my couple is doing. But it's not the case with TVD, I just love it so much that I can be happyhappyjoyjoy over the other stuff even if if there is icky shippy stuff, LOL! (like in this episode), so to not even have the regular awesome of the show to fall back on is very frustrating. TVD is my special, it's better than my couple, show, damnit!

I'll admit that initially my shipper heart did not like Rose in principle. How dare a character come along to bring out the humanity in Damon, when prior to that it was only Elena who saw that. I realize now that I was being just slightly over-protective of DE.

I felt that way a little bit, but in my responses to others in this thread, I really came to grasp just how important Elena (and Alaric and Liz) have been to get Damon to this point. And because of who and what Rose is, it makes perfect sense as to why she's helping him with this now. As I said above: Rose -- being a vampire who chooses to be a "good" vampire, as opposed to being a martyred and suffering "good" vampire like Stefan -- will present a connection with him because of that. I think if Anna hadn't died, we could have seen something similar (without the sex) develop there. And as for Liz and Ric and those friendships, I think they are key as to why he's opening up to Rose. How he is with Rose wouldn't have happened without Liz and Ric ... and Elena. It's because he's seen that people can care about him, and he can care back with some degree of faith, that he's allowing himself to open up to new people who appear to care for him/have his back. As Rose does. She proved that by taking the wolf bite. Big-time.

As far as SE goes, I'm with the rest of you in the "glad to see they actually broke up (rolls eyes)" boat. I saw no meaning in their "time apart". Enough said.

Yeah, to know that the "whole" Stefan locked in the tomb was a way for SE to get back together is just ridiculous, I'm sorry. But how is Stefan being away from her for a day or two (and perfectly safe) in any way worse (even with Katherine -- if Elena and Stefan believe so much in their TWU WUV?) than Elena being kidnapped, almost dying, being told that she's the ultimate sacrifice of big, bad vampires that are thousands of years old? It's so very much not. And then on top of that, why the big fuss of 'oh we must get them officially back together' when every single episode when they were technically not together still had moments/scenes/dialogue that showcased their great TWU WUV?

Just, rolling my eyes so hard, they've fallen out of my head and I can't see anymore. And, yeah, Stefan/Elena is the only aspect of this show that never fails to illicit this response from me. Ugh.

Like you said, "one meh episode in a sea of awesome is not that big of a deal". I'm planning on re-watching all of S1 and the first 10 episodes of S2. I believe you are right that 2x11 won't be so much of a letdown after that.

Yup, that is so the plan. I hope we're right.

Thank you for giving back hope to your fellow die-hard Delena shippers <3

You're welcome. We gotta stick together! :D

Edited at 2010-12-12 04:58 pm (UTC)
Heather-Annlinsell_farm on December 14th, 2010 03:29 am (UTC)
Re: Hope Restored
I am SUCH a couple-girl when it comes to TV that my moods about the show always revolve around how my couple is doing.TVD is my special, it's better than my couple, show, damnit!

You said it much better than I did, but that's exactly how I feel. I initially get hooked on shows based on the chemistry between the characters. None of my previous obsessions can hold a candle to DE. As long as I feel their relationship is being handled well, then I'm happy.

How he is with Rose wouldn't have happened without Liz and Ric ... and Elena.

This makes me like Rose a lot more. You are very observant of all things DE. Please keep sharing all your findings.

why the big fuss of 'oh we must get them officially back together' when every single episode when they were technically not together still had moments/scenes/dialogue that showcased their great TWU WUV?

Exactly. Why did they even bother to break up in the first place???

You're welcome. We gotta stick together! :D

No worries, I'll be sticking with you, for sure. You're my DE kindred spirit - lol.
Heather-Annlinsell_farm on December 14th, 2010 03:31 am (UTC)
Re: Hope Restored
Arabian - your quotes were supposed to be in italics - I'm not sure what I did wrong. Sorry.
lacrimadraconis: TVD Ian Nina awlacrimadraconis on December 11th, 2010 11:35 pm (UTC)
When I saw the first few seconds of the Damon/Rose scene right after Elena/Stefan I got a little scared for a moment because I feared they wanted to make them look and behave all couply. But thank goodness they turned that around and in the end I was completely happy with the angle they put on this.

I still think that Rose is pretty lame for a vampire, but if she has this purpose (and Kevin Williamson basically confirmed the guess I made in my insanelylongrambly post), I'm fine with it.

I totally trust the writers to make the journey of Damon and Elena well worth the wait. They will be epic :)
Arabian: Ian & Nina04arabian on December 12th, 2010 05:09 pm (UTC)
When I saw the first few seconds of the Damon/Rose scene right after Elena/Stefan I got a little scared for a moment because I feared they wanted to make them look and behave all couply. But thank goodness they turned that around and in the end I was completely happy with the angle they put on this.

I had that fear, but for me, even with that angle of icky, coupled with the OTT concern from Damon in the preview for the next episode, I still had that fear. It took Kevin's quote to calm that fear away.

I still think that Rose is pretty lame for a vampire, but if she has this purpose (and Kevin Williamson basically confirmed the guess I made in my insanelylongrambly post), I'm fine with it.

I don't know if she's really supposed to be that intentionally lame, but she so very much is and it (a) cracks me up, and (b) really does make sense in light of her history that they've shown us. I do think she's supposed to be lame, but I think the actress' take on it has made her even lamer than the writers intended, LOL!

I totally trust the writers to make the journey of Damon and Elena well worth the wait. They will be epic :)

I agree; but I do think they need to start giving a little more than they have this season. As I said in your lj, other than "The Return" and the "The Sacrifice" we've only had three scenes* (and short ones at that) in the other nine episodes that featured significant DE action. With possibly two** more, but they aren't rewatch and OMG! (even if sad) moments, imo.

* - Ep 2: Elena rushing in front of Caroline, Damon pulling back the stake
- Ep 3: Damon taking the arrow intended for Elena
- Ep 8: Damon's "I love you, Elena"/compel to forget

** - Ep 3: Damon asking if he lost her forever outside the car
- Ep 3: Elena telling him that, yes, he lost her forever

That's a REALLY small amount of great DE stuff, and I get how they set stuff up with the premiere, but there are moments and scenes we could have gotten here and there that would have given us more. Especially compared to the non-stop SE stuff. It's supposed to a be a triangle, that's what all the ads and promos have been selling since before the show premiered. A season and a half in, it's still way too one-sided. And when we got such an OTT one-sided episode with five weeks of reruns coming up, it really hit home just how one-sided it's been.

Fine, give the SE faction something to tide them over with for the hiatus; that's all well and good. However, the DE faction should have gotten something too. What happened instead is that SE got a huge, joyous tiding, while we not only got pretty much nothing, we also got the slap in the face of the SE huge/joyous tiding, a bitchface (although hilarious) from Elena to Damon in their ONE scene, and Damon all concerned, flirting, sexing up another female. It just kinda sucks from that perspective.

And I HATE that I'm couching my disappointment and frustration in terms of my couple, but when the rest of the episode (except for the Tyler/Caroline stuff and Elijah's BAMF-ness) failed to excite, move, thrill, whoah, floor me, all I'm left recalling is the icky shippy taste this episode left in my mouth.

Still to end this on a more positive note, Kevin's quote truly did help my state of mind, it did. It truly did. :)

Edited at 2010-12-12 05:12 pm (UTC)
crowandfog: TVD: Damon she'll rip your heart outcrowandfog on December 12th, 2010 09:01 pm (UTC)
I was disappointed that there wasn't more D/E shipper-y goodness in this episode, but I wasn't too upset about the D/R business. My thinking is that it's good for Damon to be so emotionally invested in Rose, for this reason: if Rose dies (fingers crossed that she totally will) and Damon flips out about it (you know, without the killing innocents part), Elena will see it and realize that Damon has really opened his heart.

So far, everyone that Damon has been shown to care about can be considered part of Elena or Stefan's world. By that I mean, Stefan and/or Elena cared about that person first, directly or indirectly. Elena let Rose live, and Stefan let Rose stay in the boarding house--but neither one of them have an actual relationship with her. Rose is truly Damon's friend, and Damon's friend alone. No one can say he's doing it "for Elena" or "for Stefan." Damon cares about Rose because Damon cares about Rose. I think Elena will be surprised by that and will start seeing Damon in a new light. That's what I hope for anyway. Maybe she will even be the one to comfort him once Rose is gone (please, let her be gone).

Also:
Therefore, I don't think it's unrealistic to make the leap that Damon's journey is thus intrinsically tied in with Elena.

Yes, please, yes, yes, please. PLEASE. Please, yes. Tying one character's journey to another is a very big deal. The only example I can think of that been on the show so far is maybe Tyler and Caroline? His story seems to require her in some ways.

IMO the writers are not nearly as invested in S/E as D/E, and there has to be a reason for that.
Arabian: Damon07arabian on December 12th, 2010 10:18 pm (UTC)
I'm fairly positive I know Rose's fate, if you're interested, I'll share.

Regarding Rose/Damon, again, it's not so much that I had such an issue with them, it's that we got D/R, THEN S/E, and then MORE D/R and then a promo showing Damon being all ultra-uber concerned/protective over Rose paired with SE sucking face. And on top of all of that, there was so very, very little D/E and finally ... all of this was going into a five-week hiatus.

I do see and agree with your point about Rose and what it means that Damon is beginning to allow himself to show his humanity in a bigger circle, it was just the combination of all of the above that rankled so.

IMO the writers are not nearly as invested in S/E as D/E, and there has to be a reason for that.

Now this I have completely thought since the premiere. As aggravated as I'm by the constant in-your-face about Stefan and Elena's TRU WUV!, looking at the bigger picture and story arcs, there is so much care, intensity, attention and depth being poured into Damon and Elena's journey. I just need to hold onto that when the S/E stuff gets overwhelming and I feel like the D/E fanbase is getting the very short end of the stick.
crowandfog: TVD: Damon you left me in the darkcrowandfog on December 12th, 2010 11:12 pm (UTC)
Ah, I see your point, and you're right. D/E fans really didn't get much to hold onto going into the hiatus.

Plus, all the TRU WUV! (tee hee, love that) talk kinda feels like a slap in the face to us D/E shippers at times. All the S/E fans use it to say, "For Elena to ever consider dating Damon would be complete character assassination, and I would lose any and all respect for her!" To that, I say, I don't remember Elena ever saying that she would always be with Stefan only Stefan (I love you, sure, but not always) until after she found out that Damon was in love with her. I could be wrong, but I think she doth protest too much. :P

But, I've noticed that the S/E shippers tend to take everything at face value, while D/E shippers tend to look at the subtext. I guess it's part of why we ship who we ship.
Dianabutterfly on January 1st, 2011 11:06 pm (UTC)
The fact that viewers weren't sure if they were together or not prior to this episode (and it wasn't just me, I read countless comments unsure of their state, some even flat-out thinking that they were back together), shows that the care is just not there. And when they do write about them? It's rather lather, rinse, repeat. One of my few issues with the first half of season one (once past episode three), was the back-and-forth merry-go-round with Stefan and Elena. And, oh, lookee, we're doing it again. It's not fun. With these two, it's just the same ole, same ole with them every time.

Yeah, the confusion over whether or not Stefan and Elena had gotten back together is such an odd thing for them to do to the main couple on the show. That could have easily been cleared up but it had to be inferred instead. It's like the writers weren't paying enough attention to S/E to notice that they left it ambiguous.
Arabian: Kris Allen_01arabian on January 1st, 2011 11:38 pm (UTC)
The unfortunate thing is that even with the ambiguous nature of the S/E break-up/non-break-up, it's still been pretty much non-stop S/E this season so far. When looking at the screentime Damon/Elena have had, there's been a very small amount of great DE stuff. Yes, I get how they set stuff up with the premiere (you know, the whole Jeremy-NeckSnap 2010), but there are moments and scenes we could have gotten here and there that would have given us more. Especially compared to the non-stop SE stuff.

It's supposed to a be a triangle, that's what all the ads and promos have been selling since before the show premiered. A season and a half in, it's still way too one-sided. And when we got such an OTT one-sided episode with five weeks of reruns coming up, it really hit home just how one-sided it's been. Fine, give the SE faction something to tide them over with for the hiatus; that's all well and good. However, the DE faction should have gotten something too. What happened instead is that SE fans got a huge, joyous tiding, while we not only got pretty much nothing, we also got the slap in the face of the SE huge/joyous tiding, a bitchface (although hilarious) from Elena to Damon in their ONE scene, and Damon all concerned, flirting, sexing up another female. It just kinda sucks from that perspective.

But, Kevin's comment helped. A lot.

Edited at 2011-01-01 11:39 pm (UTC)