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04 January 2009 @ 02:10 pm
I REALLY am a Doctor/Rose-girl ...  
as in DOCTOR/Rose, not Nine/Rose, or Ten/Rose, but Doctor/Rose. I've never read Eight/Rose fic, etc., but I think I may now. Someone put up a lovely Eleven, Rose/TenII story, and of course, Rose while interested in Eleven, was all smooshy and devoted to TenII, and for Eleven, Rose was basically a beloved, but faded, memory. And it bothered me!!!! I wanted Rose to want to be with Eleven as much as TenII. BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH THE DOCTOR, DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!

So, yeah, wow, I REALLY, REALLY am a Rose/Doctor girl. Doesn't matter the number, as long as it's Rose and it's the Doctor. I really thought that I was just for Nine/Rose and Ten/Rose because I'd seen Rose onscreen (as Rose) with Nine and Ten. But nope, I'm apparently for Rose and any Doctor, no matter the form.

I've decided that my perfect Rose/Doctor ending would never happen, but I know what it would be. Moffat is gone after series 5 (what? My fantasy!), Rusty comes back, and brings Billie with him for three Christmas specials (pre-series 6/between 6 and 7, post series 7) and two series (6/7). When Rose shows up, we find out that they were together for seven years, and then he was hit by a car, he didn't die immediately so there was time to talk. He tells her to go to the other him, somehow, find a way. He can only guess that Bad Wolf still has some power, because Rose as Bad Wolf saw all of this.

Rose gets through, meets up with the Doctor, that Xmas special, next series is them re-falling in love. Second xmas special, series seven, is much like series two in Doctor/Rose adventures. And since I'm sure Moffat will be introducing sex left and right, having the Doctor and Rose in a fully romantic relationship will seem chaste in comparison. And part of why TenII had to die as he did was so that he could give her his memories to give to Eleven and with Rose telling him so, the Doctor would finally get that while it was painful losing him to death, Rose wouldn't have given up those seven years because the love and happiness is worth the pain.

Finally, the Xmas special comes, and it ends with the two about to face some danger, the Doctor takes her hand, says "Run" and they run off into the distance. The End.

Series eight returns and it's revealed early on that it's been about fifty-sixty years, Rose was with the Doctor until she died and now he's alone, but at least he had a full life with her. And from that point on, because of his relationship with Rose, he can be content without the romance, bringing the Doctor back to the "asexual" way of pre-new-"Who" to make the fanboys, as well as the psycho Doctor/Rose shippers like myself who don't want to see him romantically with anyone else again, happy.

Yup, that's what I want to happen. Won't, but oh, 'twould be lovely. *Sigh*
 
 
 
Velvet Rain Dropsadriana_is on January 4th, 2009 07:17 pm (UTC)
(pets you) I read that. While it didn't bother me as much as you, that's probably how it's going to play out in Stevie's world. I like to hope that he will still love Rose but who can say what the new season will bring. I do like the chemistry between BP and MS. I've downloaded SDOACG S0106 and The Ruby in the Smoke and they work very well together. But then, as we know, our girl has chemistry with everyone. :)
In my own wishful thinking, I'd hope that BP would come back and be 11's companion but...probably not going to happen.

Arabian: Billie Piper_04arabian on January 4th, 2009 07:27 pm (UTC)
Oh, I will shocked senseless if I hear that Rose is referred to any way, shape or form in Moffat's Who.

I have both Sally Lockhart movies on my computer waiting to watch, and all of SDoaCG (which I've already watched), so I'll be more interested in seeing the former as I was before.

I'd hope that BP would come back and be 11's companion but...probably not going to happen.

Oh man, I wrote-up this whole scenario I'd love and just threw it in the main post.



faith5by5_1013: Doctor Who: Nine/Rose: Kissfaith5by5_1013 on January 4th, 2009 07:32 pm (UTC)
I mainly ship Nine/Rose, Ten/Rose, and TenII/Rose because that's what we've seen, but, yeah, I do really ship Doctor/Rose. Doesn't matter which Doctor it is.

I've read some Eight/Rose and loved it.

I wanted Rose to want to be with Eleven as much as TenII. BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH THE DOCTOR, DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!

I think a lot of us feel that way.

I love your perfect Doctor/Rose ending. That would make me happy too!

Edited at 2009-01-04 07:34 pm (UTC)
Arabian: Dr Who (9) - FDarabian on January 4th, 2009 07:38 pm (UTC)
Sigh, wouldn't it be perfect, though? Yes, it would mean that Doctor/Rose were finished as far as the show was concerned, but Billie'd never come back anyway. So this way we'd have a full and complete happy Rose and the Doctor in every way possible. Sigh.
alexiscartwheel: dw - nine & rosealexiscartwheel on January 4th, 2009 07:41 pm (UTC)
There's already fic in which Rose meets Eleven? In, what, 24 hours? DW fandom never ceases to amaze!

Anyway, if you're interested in checking out some multi-era Doctor/Rose, check out "Non-Linear Love Story" by Rallalon. It's Doctor/Rose featuring Eight, Nine, and Ten. I believe it's at both Teaspoon and T&C.
Arabian: Dr Who (9) - BTarabian on January 4th, 2009 07:45 pm (UTC)
I believe it was the first. LOL!

Yeah, I am interested in checking out multi-era now beyond Nine and Ten. I saw that one by Rallalon, but didn't read it because it had Eight. Now, I'm fine with that. I'll check it out. Thanks. :)
sunnytyler001: Rose & Ten 2sunnytyler001 on January 4th, 2009 08:09 pm (UTC)
"Rose while interested in Eleven, was all smooshy and devoted to TenII, and for Eleven, Rose was basically a beloved, but faded, memory. And it bothered me!!!! I wanted Rose to want to be with Eleven as much as TenII. BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH THE DOCTOR, DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!"
Ah, so I wasn't the only one!
In my little AU!World, BadWolf!Rose is with Eleven and Human!Rose is with Ten II. That way, everybody is happy!
Arabian: Dr Who (10)arabian on January 4th, 2009 08:17 pm (UTC)
And now I'm thinking, "Ah, so I wasn't the only one!" LOL!

See, my canon-minded mind can't even go with your solution. Because there is no BadWolf!Rose and Human!Rose. There's only Rose.
orange_crushedorange_crushed on January 4th, 2009 08:22 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I think I'm with you on the Doctor and Rose thing. It doesn't have to be Nine or Ten. One of my favorite stories ever featured Eight and Rose (along with some Nine and Ten) and that really opened my eyes to the fact that I think she fits with him, not just a part of him.

I'd be perfectly happy reading Eleven/Rose as long as it's done right. (That goes for pretty much anything, really, ha.)
Arabian: Billie Piper_02arabian on January 4th, 2009 08:43 pm (UTC)
I'm REALLY glad that this fic was written because it did open my eyes up to the fact that I do love Rose with THE DOCTOR. Not Nine. Not Ten. But the Doctor. I was really bummed that Eleven was no longer in love with Rose and that Rose had no problem really walking away from him. (Although, admittedly the TenII jealousy was cute.)

Would you mind linking me to that fic? I'd love to read it and may have some time this week.
orange_crushedorange_crushed on January 4th, 2009 11:23 pm (UTC)
The one I'm thinking of is "Non-Linear Love Story" by rallalon. It's here on Teaspoon, in case you haven't read it already: http://www.whofic.com/viewstory.php?sid=19734&textsize=0&chapter=1

And it's quite fabulous. It was the first fic that really made me believe Rose with another Doctor, and after that the floodgates opened. :D
real life dropout and online overachiever: nine/rose kissrynne on January 4th, 2009 09:42 pm (UTC)
Oh yes, definitely. Around the airing of TSE/JE and their Confidentials, I saw people claiming that Rose didn't want him to regenerate because she was in love with Ten and I was like GAH NO SHE'S IN LOVE WITH THE DOCTOR. I was so glad that JE featured Ten I and Ten II rather than Eleven and Ten II just so it wouldn't seem like Rose was choosing Ten II because he was still Ten.

I have a random passion for Eight/Rose, and I would happily read Rose/any!Doctor, because I always thought that she clearly loved him as Nine (otherwise PotW doesn't make as much sense), and because she still loved him as Ten, it meant she loved him as him, not just any specific incarnation of him. And the same thing for him! He loved her as Nine, and he loved her as Ten, and he loved her as Ten II--regeneration has not changed either of their feelings.

Part of your dream scenario makes me wibble because I don't want Ten II to die! XD But I always would have been happy with the Doctor and Rose walking off into the sunset and then next time we see him is after her death, sad but content at having lived a full and happy life with her. And also:

And from that point on, because of his relationship with Rose, he can be content without the romance, bringing the Doctor back to the "asexual" way of pre-new-"Who" to make the fanboys, as well as the psycho Doctor/Rose shippers like myself who don't want to see him romantically with anyone else again, happy.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels this way! XD I feel guilty because I love the Doctor and I don't want him to be miserable after Rose is gone, but it's like when River Song showed up, people were all, "I still love D/Rose but I want him to be happy after she's gone so I'm glad there's River Song in his future". And I felt sort of the same way, but not really. I mean, quite apart from it being River Song (whose characterization was all wrong for someone who could be making him happy), I do want him to be happy in the future, but I am so clingy to my OTPs: I want him to be happy, but without romance being a necessary part of it. I often feel the need to justify it, but I think that if he was happy, even without romance, that would be its own justification. Part of the reason I ship D/R is, after all, that he wasn't happy and then she made him happy. This way I can be clingy to my OTP and still want him happy. :p

Wow, that was a ramble. XD

Oh, also, other people have menioned, but you need to read Non-Linear Love Story (the Eight/Rose, Nine/Rose, Ten/Rose) story. It is so awesome. :D
orange_crushedorange_crushed on January 4th, 2009 11:25 pm (UTC)
Ha, I just mentioned that same fic in this same post ! Great minds. :)
orange_crushedorange_crushed on January 4th, 2009 11:26 pm (UTC)
Aaaand I just realized we pretty much all recommended that fic here.

I'm a space cadet, but the great minds thing still stands. Hee.
Diana: Oncoming Storm -- Eighth Doctorbutterfly on January 5th, 2009 03:45 pm (UTC)
Because it is such an awesome fic. I love that one.
Arabian: Dr Who (9) - Victorianarabian on January 9th, 2009 08:36 am (UTC)
Around the airing of TSE/JE and their Confidentials, I saw people claiming that Rose didn't want him to regenerate because she was in love with Ten and I was like GAH NO SHE'S IN LOVE WITH THE DOCTOR. I was so glad that JE featured Ten I and Ten II rather than Eleven and Ten II just so it wouldn't seem like Rose was choosing Ten II because he was still Ten.
YES!!! I wrote something similar below before seeing this.

I would have been infuriated had Ten regenerated into Eleven and then Rose skipped along with TenII without any big to-do at all because well, Ten looked like David Tennant and Eleven did not. To me, Rose loves THE DOCTOR, not David Tennant.
Part of your dream scenario makes me wibble because I don't want Ten II to die! XD But I always would have been happy with the Doctor and Rose walking off into the sunset and then next time we see him is after her death, sad but content at having lived a full and happy life with her.
The ONLY reason I came up with that scenario is because I CAN'T see how Rose could choose between TenII and any other incarnation of the Doctor because they're both the Doctor, so in order to give a full-cycle ending to the Doctor/Rose arc, TenII has to die. Sad, but there it is.
I do want him to be happy in the future, but I am so clingy to my OTPs: I want him to be happy, but without romance being a necessary part of it.
Right. Considering that the Doctor has mostly gotten by for almost a thousand years without romance, it's perfectly reasonable that once he's spent most of a human's life span with the love of his life, that would be enough for no romantic other love for the rest of his life. After all, he was perfectly happy with Donna and there was no romance there.
Wow, that was a ramble.
I'm a fan of the ramble myself. :)

Edited at 2009-01-09 08:37 am (UTC)
Marinajavabreeze on January 4th, 2009 09:53 pm (UTC)
I'm a Ten/Rose and Ten2/Rose girl. I'm not bothered by 9/Rose I just simply prefer David Tennant over Christopher Eccleston. The problem I have shipping Rose with other Doctors is that we never saw them on screen as Rose and the Doctor. For me that is huge. Doesn't matter if MS was already in a few things with BP. I haven't seen them together in Who. This is why I can't get into 8/Rose or even 11/Rose and why I probably never will.
Arabian: Dr Who (Rose/10/9)arabian on January 9th, 2009 08:40 am (UTC)
The problem I have shipping Rose with other Doctors is that we never saw them on screen as Rose and the Doctor.
See and that's why I always considered myself a fan of Nine/Rose, Ten/Rose, TenII/Rose, but I never even looked at other number/Rose because I hadn't seen them onscreen. But when I read that fic, I KNEW where it was going from the beginning and I expected to be awwing and squishing it, but I as I continued reading (Because it was so well-written and in character), I was just so bummed for the Doctor because ... Rose loves the Doctor. Not Ten. The Doctor. And Eleven is the Doctor just as much as TenII is.

So I was surprised, but there it is. Thus my post: I'm REALLY a Doctor/Rose girl, Not Nine+Ten+TenII/Rose, but DOCTOR/Rose. I can understand where you're coming from (well, about not seeing them onscreen, you know I'm all about the Eccleston and Nine/Rose, LOL!), because that's exactly where I thought *I* was coming from until I read this fic.

Edited at 2009-01-09 08:40 am (UTC)
madeellymadeelly on January 5th, 2009 12:13 am (UTC)
Doctor/Rose FTW. And I like your scenario. Here's to hoping. =P
Arabianarabian on January 9th, 2009 08:41 am (UTC)
I'm not even remotely getting my hopes up for this to happen. LOL! If it wasn't Moffat taking over, possibly, but if nothing else, Moffat's gonna be sexing the Doctor up. ::Shudders::
Diana: Bad Wolf -- Nine and Rosebutterfly on January 5th, 2009 06:51 am (UTC)
I enjoyed that story, though I wouldn't want it to be show canon. It seemed to fit with what Two said about his family -- that they 'sleep in his mind'.

I don't really want to read any serious Eleven/Rose fic until there's some sense of the guy's personality (oh, Moffat, *sigh*).
Arabian: Dr Who (Nine)arabian on January 9th, 2009 08:42 am (UTC)
Oh, tis so sad when our brains don't mesh re: Who, LOL!
But you can call me Bowie: dr who 8/roseisiscaughey on January 5th, 2009 03:42 pm (UTC)
There's some brilliant Eight/Rose out there... I have a secret weakness.
96 tears: DoctorWhoninety6tears on January 9th, 2009 06:48 am (UTC)
it ends with the two about to face some danger, the Doctor takes her hand, says "Run" and they run off into the distance.
that bit is lovely :)
Arabian: Dr Who (10) - One Heartarabian on January 9th, 2009 08:32 am (UTC)
Thank you. For me, I'd just love for them to end on 'Run.' (But if what we have of Rose/Doctor in JE is the end, than at least we did end on a hand-hold!)
Arabian: Dr Who (Rose/10/9)arabian on January 9th, 2009 08:43 am (UTC)
I've got Non-Linear Love Story open and will try and read it this weekend.
gowdie: Rose and Doctor in the Tardisgowdie on January 9th, 2009 07:30 am (UTC)
Ah, see, now I'm going to be contrary.

Rose did fall in love with Nine. And she was/is very much in love with Ten. But I do agree with those who thought that she didn't want Ten to regenerate because she came back for him. To be clear - if he did regenerate at that time, I think she would have dealt. But at that time, after fighting so hard and for so long to come back - with that him in mind - for him to change just as she reached him would have been a severe blow. Thus all the frantic sobbing and begging.

I agree with Billie Piper - she is very fond of this version of the Doctor, and very much in love with him. And the fact of the matter is, a regeneration can come along with dramatic personality changes. From Nine to Ten, it worked out wonderfully. But there are no guarantees, and I think that uncertainty for her might be terrifying. She'd deal - but terrifying.

And in the words of RTD, Rose is selfish about the Doctor. It's a wonderful selfishness, because it comes from love, but it's there nonetheless. And I think after a life with TenII - that includes an actual human intimate romantic relationship, and all that includes, from making love, to snuffly colds, to eating breakfast, to going to the bathroom in front of each other, that selfishness might be even stronger - in the sense of intimately loving what she is familiar with. Meeting Eleven after that would not be the same as being reunited with Ten. It would be a huge transition, one that would take time, and I suspect she would miss TenII terribly. Eleven would be the Doctor, and she would absolutely love him in that sense, but he would also be a stranger in a lot of ways.

As for the Doctor himself, I kind of hope Eleven moves on. I don't want him to grieve for Rose forever. It gets too sad to watch. Nine was born a soldier - who was bitter and angry, and he fell in love, and she healed him. Ten was born out of love for Rose, and in love with her. And I think that affected his personality. The transition from Ten to Eleven might be born with the feeling of wanting a fresh start, needing to move on.

I actually did a LONG comment on my own journal about my thoughts on Nine v. Ten. v. Eleven, and I could say it all again here, but for brevity, I'll direct you to it.

It's interesting. I understand your instinctual gut reaction and how strong it is. I think the way you react to Rose not loving to Eleven is the same way I react to TenII being bumped off so Rose can reunite with the Proper Doctor. The idea hurts me.
Arabian: Dr Who (Rose/10/9)arabian on January 9th, 2009 08:28 am (UTC)
Once I posted this on T&C, I probably should have added some sort of addendum to my post. I ADORE TenII and I would have absolutely been heartbroken and just as bothered if Rose had bumped off TenII to reunite with the Doctor. Because to me, they are BOTH the Doctor. Anyone who is familiar with my Doctor/Rose posts knows that my biggest pet peeve post-JE is from shippers who don't accept TenII as the Doctor. So that's where my frustration comes from.

Likewise, I would have been infuriated had Ten regenerated into Eleven and then Rose skipped along with TenII without any big to-do at all because well, Ten looked like David Tennant and Eleven did not. To me, Rose loves THE DOCTOR, not David Tennant. She doesn't love Ten more than Nine because he's Ten, but because she spent more time with him over the course of time. If Nine hadn't regenerated at the end of PotW, I fully believe that they would have been as in love and bouncy/happy throughout S2 and then devastated with "Doomsday." Because Rose loves the Doctor. Period.

As for the JE regeneration, I've always firmly believed that Rose didn't want him to regenerate because when he regenerates (which she knows from experience), he (a) goes through a crazy sickness and they needed the Doctor on full-on Doctor mode, but more importantly (b) he changes a little. She's gone through so much to be with him, it would have been devastating to have to "get to know him" again like she did with Ten ... after all that time they'd spent apart. But I just as firmly believe that had she stayed in this universe and they'd traveled again, she *would* have fallen in love with again (as Tennant said happened once Nine regenerated to Ten) because she loves the Doctor, as fond as she is of Ten's looks and quirky mannerisms, she loves the Doctor.

I don't think that the Doctor should grieve for Rose forever, but I don't want her to ever be a faded memory to him. That's my point. If Rose ever were to miraculously come back into his life, I want him to love and want her as much as he ever has.

OT; I don't know if you remember me, but we were in the Logan/Rogue fandom together. I'm pretty sure I posted under my real name in the war mailing list, JenniferH. and I also was a member of wrbeta.

Edited at 2009-01-09 08:45 am (UTC)
gowdie: Logan/Roguegowdie on January 9th, 2009 10:13 pm (UTC)
Anyone who is familiar with my Doctor/Rose posts knows that my biggest pet peeve post-JE is from shippers who don't accept TenII as the Doctor.

Agreed! I wrote a whole story to make this point - TenII is the Doctor. Period. Just with some human adjustments.

I would have been infuriated had Ten regenerated into Eleven and then Rose skipped along with TenII without any big to-do at all because well, Ten looked like David Tennant and Eleven did not.

You keep focusing on Ten being David Tennant. I wonder if that is part of your passion - the Doctor being the Doctor, not David Tennant. See, for me, it isn't about David Tennant (though I do love him so, hmmmm) it's about Ten being Ten. And who that specific incarnation of the Doctor is - how he behaves, what makes him tic. He is VERY different from Nine. So presumably Eleven again will be VERY different.

And for Rose, again, I come back to it being about loving the Doctor she knows - the one she is familiar with. The one who giggled and laughed with her, who petted and flirted with her, who hugged her at every opportunity. We don't know that that is how Eleven would behave - and more importantly, Rose doesn't know it.

The change from Nine to Ten, for Rose, was traumatic. Horribly traumatic. It worked out. It worked out very, very well. But look at New Earth - where she ADORES him already, but still cannot keep from commenting on how very different he is. There has to be some lingering doubt. Some insecurity, some fear of facing that dramatic change again, and having no idea of who he will be on the other side.

Especially if it happens when she isn't there.

But I just as firmly believe that had she stayed in this universe and they'd traveled again, she *would* have fallen in love with again.

Agreed. In that case I think she would have mourned for Ten terribly - but then learned to love him again. But I think it might have been hard. Especially under the given circumstances. The transition might be easier if they were reunited - traveled again, and then the changed took place after their relationship was re-established.

I guess our point of contention is the difference between Ten being gone forever, and her joining Eleven. Or a choice between TenII and Eleven. Because I do think she would choose TenII. It wouldn't be easy, skipping off. She would know Eleven was the Doctor and that would make it horribly bittersweet, but ultimately she would pick TenII. She's human - and that's the man she knows.

It would essentially be just as it was - the choice between the Doctor, and a human version who can tell her loves her, and all that extra humanity. Only this time it would be with the added push of being between the Doctor she feels comfortable with, and the one she would have to relearn. In that moment, considering everything that had happened, I think she would feel safer, more secure with TenII.
Arabian: Dr Who (Rose/10/9)arabian on January 9th, 2009 10:18 pm (UTC)
I know she would choose TenII over Eleven because she's living a full life with him, but I'm saying that I don't want to ever see that choice have to be made simply because it should be a hard choice, I think and as presented it wasn't even a choice in this fic. And that's what I struggled with the most, I was bothered that for Rose it wasn't a choice at all.

I feel that the connection between Rose and the Doctor transcends any regeneration. Yes, she'd stay with TenII, but I think that if through some crack way it had been the hand regenerating into NineII, she would have stayed with him over a further regeneration too simply because she had the full life with him. It was just hard for me to see her so not struggling between TenII and Eleven.

As for me saying David Tennant, that was simply to address the fact that there are enough Ten/Rose fans who are fans of Ten/Rose specifically BECAUSE Ten is played by David Tennant. Not all, of course, but I've seen it commented on enough to know that that's the case for enough. Thus the David Tennant naming.

As for their differences, I guess we have to disagree there too because I don't think that Nine and Ten are all that different. There are some surface differences, Ten is darker in some regards, but overall, I see the same character.

Edited at 2009-01-09 10:26 pm (UTC)
gowdie: Ten Writinggowdie on January 10th, 2009 03:58 am (UTC)
I know she would choose TenII over Eleven because she's living a full life with him, but I'm saying that I don't want to ever see that choice have to be made simply because it should be a hard choice, I think and as presented it wasn't even a choice in this fic. And that's what I struggled with the most, I was bothered that for Rose it wasn't a choice at all.

Ahhhhh, so what you're saying is you want there to be angst for Rose. For it not to be easy. Okay - on that we're totally agreed. I think running into the Doctor would be very hard, and riddled with angst.

Part of the reason I'm engaging you so hard on this is because I'm working on a story that deals with all these issues. Although - I wouldn't go so far as to say a choice has to be made, because she loves her life with TenII very much and could never leave him. There's no chance she'd leave with Eleven. But meeting Eleven brings up a lot of stuff, and a lot of complicated feelings and issues.

If you happen to read it, it may not be obvious at first - since I think her first reaction might be to cling to TenII like a clinging thing that clings, but later I will get around to how deeply she loves the Doctor, and how it is going to hurt to watch him leave all over again. Even though she is initially very uncomfortable with him being different.

I just want to believe that in the Doctor's heart, Rose will ALWAYS be there. As he said in "The Shakespeare Code" thinking he'd never see Rose again, "that's the name that keeps me fighting." Or in "The Satan Pit," ... after his speech about Gods and semi-gods, etc. he knows one thing, and it's about Rose: "I believe in her." I don't think that EVER has to go away, she can always be that one, that guiding light,

Nicely put. And I do think she will always be there. I know how some people hate for us to point out that Rose is somehow special, somehow different from most companions, but I do think she is. She saved him, in every sense of the word. And for that reason alone, I think she will always be in his heart. And I think part of his belief in her comes from her repeatedly defying his declarations of impossible. And she did it again - after he said that, by coming back. So that belief would be even stronger.

I guess I just wonder, since now he's given her up, he's the one who walked away, if he would want to need her less. Yes, he will still love her, believe in her, but he would want not to hurt so much. Ten ran down a street, at impossible speed and got himself shot, just to get to her arms faster. I wonder if Eleven's reaction to seeing her again might be different. Might be more subdued.

That's actually why I didn't comment on your journal when you first entered this fandom, because as much as we both loved W/R and D/R, we differ very, very, VERY much on Harry/Ginny and judging by your journal, that's your main (or at least in the top two) fandom right now.

Runs to your user info to find incriminating evidence. Hm. None there. BUT! I did find icons of Mulder and Scully! And even Doctor Hood and Rachel! (And can I just remark quickly how Doctor Hood/Rachel kinda sorta reminds me a bit of Doctor/Rose. A little. Ish.)

So since we have all those in common, surely we can overlook the Harry thing? And it was my main fandom/pairing a couple of years ago. But now it's over. And I don't think of them that much anymore. Don't even read their fic anymore. I keep the background for sentimental reasons - and because I made it all meself.
Arabian: Dr Whoarabian on January 10th, 2009 04:38 am (UTC)
1 of 2
Ahhhhh, so what you're saying is you want there to be angst for Rose. For it not to be easy. Okay - on that we're totally agreed. I think running into the Doctor would be very hard, and riddled with angst.
Yeah, I guess. I want it to be hard for Rose because she LOVES the Doctor.
Part of the reason I'm engaging you so hard on this is because I'm working on a story that deals with all these issues. Although - I wouldn't go so far as to say a choice has to be made, because she loves her life with TenII very much and could never leave him. There's no chance she'd leave with Eleven. But meeting Eleven brings up a lot of stuff, and a lot of complicated feelings and issues.
Well, if this is helping you work through aspects of your fic, I'm very happy because I know how that can be a huge help. So yay!
If you happen to read it, it may not be obvious at first - since I think her first reaction might be to cling to TenII like a clinging thing that clings, but later I will get around to how deeply she loves the Doctor, and how it is going to hurt to watch him leave all over again. Even though she is initially very uncomfortable with him being different.
Well, I've read every Rose/Eleven fic so far, LOL! I don't see why I wouldn't read yours.
I just want to believe that in the Doctor's heart, Rose will ALWAYS be there. As he said in "The Shakespeare Code" thinking he'd never see Rose again, "that's the name that keeps me fighting." Or in "The Satan Pit," ... after his speech about Gods and semi-gods, etc. he knows one thing, and it's about Rose: "I believe in her." I don't think that EVER has to go away, she can always be that one, that guiding light.
Nicely put. And I do think she will always be there.
Thank you. I was really trying to figure out how to phrase it in a way that made sense.
I know how some people hate for us to point out that Rose is somehow special, somehow different from most companions, but I do think she is. She saved him, in every sense of the word. And for that reason alone, I think she will always be in his heart.
One of the posts I've been meaning to write forever is one about why is it such a bad thing to say that Rose is the love of his life. Tennant's said it and he plays the Doctor, why can't we as viewers? You're absolutely right. Rose IS special; as I said elsewhere, I don't deny or try to take away that he's loved other people, he just loves Rose the most.

It's actually not one of my favorite songs by the Beatles, but I do think that "In My Life" sums up the Doctor's view of Rose compared to the others in his life: Though I know I'll never lose affection/For people and things that went before/I know I'll often stop and think about them/In my life I love you more. Rose was the love of his life.
I guess I just wonder, since now he's given her up, he's the one who walked away, if he would want to need her less.
Ah, we disagree here again because I would never consider it that he gave her up, walked away. He wasn't giving her up, but rather giving him the best part of himself that could fully and completely love her. Semantics maybe, but it's important to me. He wasn't walking away from her and leaving her, he was giving her everything they could be ... it just happened to be in another version of him that could give her a bit more than this version could.
Yes, he will still love her, believe in her, but he would want not to hurt so much. Ten ran down a street, at impossible speed and got himself shot, just to get to her arms faster. I wonder if Eleven's reaction to seeing her again might be different. Might be more subdued.
I think it would be, but it would be because he'd wonder what happened, what went wrong with TenII and so there would be a tentativeness there. I think he'd still be overjoyed, but he might hold back a bit at first.

Edited at 2009-01-10 04:42 am (UTC)
gowdie: Animated Kissgowdie on January 10th, 2009 09:33 am (UTC)
Re: 1 of 2
Am extremely impressed with the fancy formatting. May I ask what the html code is for the pretty quote boxes?

One of the posts I've been meaning to write forever is one about why is it such a bad thing to say that Rose is the love of his life. Tennant's said it and he plays the Doctor, why can't we as viewers? You're absolutely right. Rose IS special; as I said elsewhere, I don't deny or try to take away that he's loved other people, he just loves Rose the most.

Yeah, I don't get it. When you have the writers and ALL three actors involved saying the same thing, I don't get how people still insist on denying it's existence. Saying you don't like Doctor/Rose is one thing - but to try to claim it isn't there in the first place?

I guess I kind of understand those who feel traditionally that the Doctor shouldn't love one human more than others. Because, hilariously, I almost think that's one of HIS issues about the whole thing. Possibly one of the reasons he can't bring himself to say the actual words. But he's still feeling it - even it if is taboo.

He wasn't giving her up, but rather giving him the best part of himself that could fully and completely love her. Semantics maybe, but it's important to me. He wasn't walking away from her and leaving her, he was giving her everything they could be ... it just happened to be in another version of him that could give her a bit more than this version could.

If that's semantics - it's semantics that I love. I've never read it quite like that. I would have already agreed to the idea that he was sacrificing his own happiness to give her the best life with him that he could. But I quite like how you've put it. Very lovely.

Ah, Hood and Rachel actually remind me of Mulder/Scully...

Oh, they are sooooo Mulder/Scully, also. There is just something about his grief, and his geekiness, and occasional fumbling that seems very Doctorish to me.

Potter

I joined the fandom in the Spring before the sixth book came out. So we just missed each other. Well, that and I stayed well out of the mudslinging, and generally out of Harry/Hermione haunts altogether. As is my way - I tend to hang out in the specific communities, rather than the general ones.

I did write an essay titled "Why Harry Picked Ginny, Rather Than Hermione" which is in my memories, and was featured on Leaky. But I was told, by a few Harry/Hermione people, that they appreciated how I stuck to the text, and wasn't inflammatory.

I also grumble about the movies. Though, at this point, I might be past that. Now I just shake my head in sadness. OotP drove me crazy as I felt it was mostly told via montage. And since HBP is the same director, I expect more of the same. If I post anything about HBP that you wouldn't like, it will probably be about how Ginny gets the shaft. Again. Although - heh - you might like that!

I'd like to friend you, we were fandom-friends once upon a time, and actually in a fairly small circle of that fandom for a period.

Very, very small circle. Elite if you will. Elite, and kind of bitchy. Heh. That still gives me giggles.

So please, friend away. I solumely swear to stick to a Potter truce!

And can I just say, I am IN LOVE with your Eccleston icon. Hmmmmm - stares.
Arabian: Christopher Eccleston_01arabian on January 10th, 2009 11:08 am (UTC)
Re: 1 of 2
Am extremely impressed with the fancy formatting. May I ask what the html code is for the pretty quote boxes?
It doesn't work in all journal formats, but if it does, I like it much better than using the italic. Without the space < blockquote > and </ blockquote >.
When you have the writers and ALL three actors involved saying the same thing, I don't get how people still insist on denying it's existence.
Oh, boy there have been countless posts expounding on this very thing. It makes absolutely no sense to deny its existence. And it's even beyond CD BP, and DT. Julie Gardner's said it, RTD hasn't quite come out and said it but he's certainly made it quite clear where he stands on it; Murray Gold, by nature of the songs he's written, has said it. The Doctor/Rose story is a full-blown romantic love story. There's just no ambivalence there. This is not Mulder/Scully where up to a certain point, the opposing sides of the relationship had evidence to support a romantic or platonic love.
He wasn't giving her up, but rather giving him the best part of himself that could fully and completely love her. Semantics maybe, but it's important to me. He wasn't walking away from her and leaving her, he was giving her everything they could be ... it just happened to be in another version of him that could give her a bit more than this version could.
If that's semantics - it's semantics that I love. I've never read it quite like that. I would have already agreed to the idea that he was sacrificing his own happiness to give her the best life with him that he could. But I quite like how you've put it. Very lovely.
Thank you again. I don't know if you read my post about the Doctor's happy ending after JE, but you might like it. (Although I will add that in retrospect, I do think he's not QUITE as content as I hoped, but I think it's clear he's getting there.)
Ah, Hood and Rachel actually remind me of Mulder/Scully...
Oh, they are sooooo Mulder/Scully, also.
If you like them, you might be interested in my post about them too.
LOL!There is just something about his grief, and his geekiness, and occasional fumbling that seems very Doctorish to me.
I honestly never saw it before you mentioned it, but yeah, I can TOTALLY see that now.

RE: Potter

I joined the fandom after OotP because prior to that it never crossed my mind that she'd ever do H/Hr, but I was so blown away by what I saw as the beginning of this beautiful love story in the 5th book, so that's when I went online. I honestly don't even remember which site I was at now, but my posts were mainly about H/Hr. Once the 6th book came out, I knew that all of my belief about where it was going was gone and so I left the fandom. I check out some of the H/Hr sites now and then, but I'm pretty much over it completely.
I'd like to friend you, we were fandom-friends once upon a time, and actually in a fairly small circle of that fandom for a period.
Very, very small circle. Elite if you will. Elite, and kind of bitchy. Heh. That still gives me giggles.
We were bitchy, but considering the HORRIFIC badfic that was not only not being considered badfic, but was being praised as being awesomefic!, we really had no choice. At least that's what I tell myself.
So please, friend away. I solumely swear to stick to a Potter truce!
I did, and do the same back. Oh, and since you're just discovering my journal now, you might find my rewatch-reviws of Who an interesting read. If you do check them out (12 are done so far of 39 planned), feel free to leave your thoughts.
And can I just say, I am IN LOVE with your Eccleston icon. Hmmmmm - stares.
Me too. I never use the first Eccleston icon I made now because I love this one so. Oh, heck, I'll use it now, I haven't in a while. Seriously, I do not get people not getting his dreaminess.

Edited at 2009-01-10 11:13 am (UTC)
gowdie: Beardy Goodnessgowdie on January 11th, 2009 09:03 am (UTC)
Re: 1 of 2
It doesn't work in all journal formats, but if it does, I like it much better than using the italic. Without the space < blockquote > and </ blockquote >.


Immediately tries blockquoting! Waits to see result when hits post comment.

RTD hasn't quite come out and said it but he's certainly made it quite clear where he stands on it...


Hasn't he? Really? I'll be scouring The Writer's Tale tomorrow to check. And what about the line in the Confidential about getting struck down by a Dalek? Will have to check that to.

Murray Gold, by nature of the songs he's written, has said it.


LOVE Song For Ten. Love it! Walk around the apartment singing it to myself occasionally. Seriously.

We were bitchy, but considering the HORRIFIC badfic that was not only not being considered badfic, but was being praised as being awesomefic!, we really had no choice. At least that's what I tell myself.


Oh no. You're right to tell yourself that. It was indeed HORRIFIC! I still get ticked off if I think about the idiot sex-crazed Logan and eeeeeeeeevil Jean characterizations. Because those things really ticked me off in the extreme. I felt like since our position in fandom was already tenuous, that just undermined us even more. Logan was NOT stupid. And Jean did NOT have to be evil to make Logan/Rogue work. That was childish. See - there I go again. Years later! Arg!!!!!

I just still giggle at belonging to the elite cool crowd. Hee! Tra la la.

I will check out all those posts! I look forward to the episode reviews!

I need some Eccleston icons. In the meantime, I offer you Beardy Goodness.



Arabian: David Tennant_01arabian on January 11th, 2009 05:02 pm (UTC)
Re: 1 of 2
Oh, if you don't want the extra block of spaces between the boxes, do this:

Text blah blah blah Doctor/Rose are pretty
< blockquote >Doctor/Rose are still pretty </ blockquote > And then put more text here right away without hitting ENTER -- Doctor/Rose continue to always be pretty

That way you only have one line of space between regular text and the quote boxes.
Hasn't he? Really?
He infers they're in love (like TSE line about the Dalek), but he's never come out and flat-out said that the Doctor and Rose are in love, it's a love story, etc. You know, because of those pesky fanboys. Well, as far as I know. I've never seen or heard it.

RE: Murray songs. I think I'm in the minority in that "Song for Ten" is my least favorite. In terms of sheer shippiness, "Love Don't Roam" is my favorite, and I just liked that one as a song overall better forever. But I just got "Stowaway" and I REALLY, REALLY like that one. And, of course, I get an internal squee whenever I hear it because of this realization, but overall, I REALLY just love the song.

The badfic! was really, really bad. STill, it was funny being part of the cool crowd, LOL!

Pretty icon! And in return, I give you puppy-dog eyes.
Arabian: David Tennant_01arabian on January 10th, 2009 11:09 am (UTC)
Sorry ...
for all the edits/deletes you probably got in your mailbox, but being as tired as I am, the pretty formatting was totally screwed up and was messing up the entire page and it took me several tries to figure out where I'd gone wrong. Sorry. :(
Arabian: Christopher Eccleston_02arabian on January 10th, 2009 04:43 am (UTC)
2 of 2
Runs to your user info to find incriminating evidence. Hm. None there.
The 6th book came out before I got into LJ, so all of my Harry/Hermione love and Harry/Ginny ranting were at HP sites. I've ranted here and there in a journal entry on my flist, but I've let go of my frustration with all of that. What's done is done, railing against it only upsets me now.
BUT! I did find icons of Mulder and Scully! And even Doctor Hood and Rachel! (And can I just remark quickly how Doctor Hood/Rachel kinda sorta reminds me a bit of Doctor/Rose. A little. Ish.)
Ah, Hood and Rachel actually remind me of Mulder/Scully, but I can see Doctor/Rose too now that you mention it.
So since we have all those in common, surely we can overlook the Harry thing? And it was my main fandom/pairing a couple of years ago. But now it's over. And I don't think of them that much anymore. Don't even read their fic anymore. I keep the background for sentimental reasons - and because I made it all meself.
Oh, I'm fine with it, but seeing as how it was your background, I didn't want to impose upon your fandom of them -- so big that it was your bg -- with my, erm, anti-fandom, despite our WR history and new current shared obsession. I don't tend to ever talk HP, so you generally wouldn't find any H/G bashing, or see any H/Hr icons, but I can't promise that if it comes up again with the movie coming out that I won't vent a bit. If you're cool with knowing I'm venting under a cut, you could feel free to skip it. I'd like to friend you, we were fandom-friends once upon a time, and actually in a fairly small circle of that fandom for a period.
gowdie: Logan/Roguegowdie on January 9th, 2009 10:14 pm (UTC)
Part Two - I tried, I really tried to par this down to make it fit, but I couldn't do it.

Anyhoo...

I don't think that the Doctor should grieve for Rose forever, but I don't want her to ever be a faded memory to him.

But if the memory doesn't fade - then the grief stays as strong. Have you ever seen Strange Days? There's a line in there I love: "Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason." Basically, if you hold onto the memory too strongly, you will never move on with your life. And we need to keep going. It's very, very sad. And very, very hard. And I think sometimes it even needs to be a choice, and it's a hard one, but eventually, if you want live, you have to choose to let go.

Again, Ten was born loving Rose. Under her influence. Hoping to please her. Being created out of a sacrificial act to save her. And I think his need for her is, as a result, very, very strong.

If Eleven is created when Rose isn't there. When he thinks she's gone forever. And he believes she is happy with his former self. He might choose to let her go. He might be created needing her less.

OT; I don't know if you remember me, but we were in the Logan/Rogue fandom together. I'm pretty sure I posted under my real name in the war mailing list, JenniferH. and I also was a member of wrbeta.

Well Hallo Thar!! No - I completely didn't make the connection. Wheee! And inside jokey snickers at the WAR and WRbeta names. Hee. Oh, good times. Someone else from Harry/Ginny fandom just commented to me about good writers being attracted to the good couples - and I completely agree!
Arabian: Billie Piper_02arabian on January 9th, 2009 10:22 pm (UTC)
I adore Strange Days, but they're not the same thing at all. Lenny is not a practically immortal Time Lord. I just want to believe that in the Doctor's heart, Rose will ALWAYS be there. As he said in "The Shakespeare Code" thinking he'd never see Rose again, "that's the name that keeps me fighting." Or in "The Satan Pit," ... after his speech about Gods and semi-gods, etc. he knows one thing, and it's about Rose: "I believe in her." I don't think that EVER has to go away, she can always be that one, that guiding light, without him grieving.

That's actually why I didn't comment on your journal when you first entered this fandom, because as much as we both loved W/R and D/R, we differ very, very, VERY much on Harry/Ginny and judging by your journal, that's your main (or at least in the top two) fandom right now.
Kali: a complicated event in time and space_thirty2flavors on January 9th, 2009 02:58 pm (UTC)
I was going to comment here but OBVIOUSLY THERE'S NO POINT because you just said it all for me. So, um, WORD.

Especially to this: I think the way you react to Rose not loving to Eleven is the same way I react to TenII being bumped off so Rose can reunite with the Proper Doctor. The idea hurts me.

I am very irrationally fond of TenII. I think I ship TenII/Rose harder than proper-Doctor/Rose (well, post-JE and once Ten II exists, of course), because, well, I dunno, if he doesn't get Rose he really doesn't get much of anything at all. For Ten/Eleven/Etc there's still lots of worlds to save and companions to meet et cetera et cetera.
the ev: stoner bunemergency_72 on January 9th, 2009 08:17 am (UTC)
i really only ship 10 or 10.5/rose. i wasn't a huge fan of 9, so while i accept 9/rose, i don't ship. i could never ship 11/rose because it doesn't make sense to me. she's stuck in another world with 10.5 and that's just how it's stuck in my head. 8/rose just confuses me no end because she didn't meet him till he was 9.

i guess i'm just content to accept and ship how it happened in the show.
Arabian: Doylearabian on January 9th, 2009 08:31 am (UTC)
Fair enough, I don't say that I don't love Rose/Ten or Rose/TenII, I do. I just love Rose/Nine that smidgeon more because I like Eccleston and the Eccleston/Piper chemistry more. But for me, Rose loves the Doctor, period, and Eight, as well as Eleven, as well as Nine and Ten are all the Doctor, therefore she loves them all.

For me, I can't just ship her only with Ten/TenII because I feel, personally, that presents Rose as shallow that she only loved the Doctor when he was the pretty boy as inhabited by David Tennant. For me, Rose loved WHO the Doctor was as an individual, not what he looked like and if she fell in love with Nine -- which I fully, 100% believe she did -- than as much as she loved Ten, she would love Eleven, Twelve, Thirteen, Eight, etc. because they are ALL the individual that is the Doctor.

Edited at 2009-01-09 08:46 am (UTC)
Camilla Sandman: Kissing you that isn't youmisscam on January 9th, 2009 01:16 pm (UTC)
I can't say I ship Eleven/Rose - how Eleven would be is too much of a blank yet. Could be fun to speculate, as was the case when Tennant was first announced, but I like to have some source material to base things on. That's just my personal preference.

I would say I ship Doctor/Rose, in that I liked both Nine and Ten with her and I'm pretty sure she'd adapt to Eleven and whatever would be there would something different, but interesting. (Just as Nine/Rose and Ten/Rose aren't exactly the same thing, and I can see why some might like one but not the other, even though I see both as somewhat intertwined.) It's really like an extreme version of most relationships that last over time. Two people who've been married for 60 years will not have stayed the same people throughout. Experience and age would change them, and possibly at different times in their lives they would have been more in love than at others. At some points they might even have fallen out of love but still love each other and stay committed. Other times, they might have had a falling in love all over again, as if it was for the first time. The Doctor just has a... well, fast forward to a different stage in his life, and instead of getting change gradually, it comes suddenly and takes a bit more adjusting. You can love someone through their life, but there still might be one time in relationship that was more intense or where you felt more in love. Rose might have that with the Doctor, and could prefer the way she had with one or more incarnations of him and that's not really a problem for me. Not sure I'm making any sense here. I ramble in my head.

Really, if Rose ever met the original!Doctor again, I think it would be better for her if it was Eleven or a later incarnation. If human!Ten had died from her or something like that, I could the memory of it would stand much more between her and Ten than her and Eleven. Ten would remind her of her loss, though she could of course get over it. Eleven might feel more like a new start since he would be different in one way or another.

All IMO, of course.
Arabian: Dr Who (Rose/10/9)arabian on January 9th, 2009 05:38 pm (UTC)
I can't say I ship Eleven/Rose

Oh, I don't *ship* Rose/Eleven, I couldn't do that unless I saw them together. BUT, I can see Rose loving him and wouldn't be able to just choose between Rose/TenII and Rose/Eleven, Rose/Twelve because they are all the Doctor to me because to me BOTH are the Doctor.
Shaela Scanlonmls03j on January 9th, 2009 02:59 pm (UTC)
I wanted Rose to want to be with Eleven as much as TenII. BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH THE DOCTOR, DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!

Agreed. And I’ll second what rynne said about the end of “The Stolen Earth.” Actually, rallalon (the author of the Eight/Rose fic everyone’s been reccing) said something about that a while back that I thought was interesting:

The end of TSE struck me as being weird. We go from awesome to tragic and then it’s amazingly clear that yes, this is the cliffie of all cliffies. Rose’s fear was definitely to motivate the audience into being afraid. But in terms of motivation for the character instead of motivation for the show, she thinks she’s about to lose the Doctor. Which is weird, because she learned with Ten that regeneration doesn’t mean losing the Doctor, just parts of the whole being changed. It’s replacing the blade of grandfather’s ax. So either we’ve got major issues between Rose and the Doctor’s very species, or it’s a major fear for Rose of what exactly will get chucked in the bin. Which I suppose raises an important question: how essential to him is she? When he dies after she saves his life, she’s very important and so she remains important. When he dies after they’ve been apart for years? Possibly not so much. And y’know the horrible part? That’s never actually confirmed. He doesn’t regenerate, so we don’t know if the love is still that crucial to who he is, not for certain. 10.5 comes from recent energy but from the hand that, when last connected to a conscious body, was less than 15 hours away from Rose saving his life. The issue is still up in the air and now, it can never be resolved. It doesn’t need to be resolved, now that it’s Rose and 10.5, but it’s still there.

I think my perfect Doctor/Rose ending would be the Doctor realizing that he needed the life he’d given to Ten II, and doing whatever he had to do to get back to Pete’s World. (Obviously, he’d need to arrive after Ten II was dead, but we already know that time flows at a different rate in Pete’s World than it does here.) Everything after the reunion could happen off-screen, as long as when he came back to our universe, he was traveling with one of his and Rose’s children (or grandchildren).

It’ll never happen, though. I think it was Billie who said, “At some point you have to accept that it’s over.” *sigh*
(Anonymous) on March 28th, 2011 03:16 pm (UTC)
NATO takes over command of military operations in Libya
[b]NATO is taking over command of military operations in Libya from coalition forces, world media reported Sunday.[/b]

The UN Security Council imposed the no-fly zone over Libya on March 17, along with ordering "all necessary measures" to protect civilians from Muammar Gaddafi's attacks on rebel-held towns.

The 28 NATO ambassadors met on Sunday to decide on further military plans in Libya.

The United States transfers command for a no-fly zone over Libya to NATO, while coalition forces will continue to protect civilian population from attacks by Gaddafi forces.

The military operation in Libya, codenamed Odyssey Dawn, has been conducted so far jointly by 13 states, including the United States, Britain and France.

NATO members decided on Thursday to assume responsibility for the enforcement of a no-fly zone in Libya, but could not agree on taking full command of all military operations in the country.

Meanwhile, leaders of the 27 European Union states on Thursday issued a statement saying the EU stood ready to assist in building a new Libya "in cooperation with the United Nations, the Arab League, the African Union and others."

MOSCOW, March 27 (RIA Novosti)

http://en.rian.ru/world/20110327/163235937.html