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30 January 2007 @ 09:04 pm
VM 3.11 -- Good, I'm liking this arc better already  
This was another good one, I had a few problems, but nothing major.

- Is it me or was Kristen Bell REALLY over-the-top through much of episode? Almost every line was delivered as if she was on uppers, a reduced form of uppers, but none-the-less ...

- The look on Veronica's face when Max said that the look of Canada in MP room was kinda lame was PRICELESS! She genuinely looked offended/disappointed for a moment.

- The smile on Logan's face when Max/Chelsea reunited was so sweet and so happy for them. Love. It was so cute and it played into his earlier talk about romantic notions. He's such a romantic.

- I'm being shallow, I admit it, but Veronica's hair looked pretty bland through most of the episode and Amanda Noret (Madison) not looking good, that haircut? Ugh. That first outfit?

- So I guess that Dick is definitely Logan's roommate. Nice to clarify that ELEVEN episodes in.

- I actually really liked the MotW.

- The sex talk between Keith/Veronica in both scenes was just wrong. They're father/daughter. The first scene talking about the hookers was verging on ick, but the stripper pelvic thrust motion? Way uncomfortable and over the line.

- Keith and Lamb in the car was funny. I loved how Keith was all casual and calm and Lamb is doing double-takes. Hee.

- It was really interesting seeing Logan reacting to the ramifications of the case, he really seemed to care ... that is until he wanted to kick the guy out for sticking around so long. Hah!

- Lousy discussion for post-coital. I did like that we saw them cuddling, but why is it so impossible for this show to us their passion, as opposed to us just having to hope they have it. I mean, two small pecks in the whole episode?

ETA: Wait, the kiss in bed was good, would've been nice to see more, but that one was good. Nicely chemical.

- How can Veronica not know that Logan is that smitten with her ... that Logan loves her MORE than Max does Wendy? Seriously.

- Okay, he slept with Madison. Sucky, but they were broken up and he told her. Maybe he didn't say Madison's name, but he told her. He was totally talking about Madison. Surfer skank girl is just some faceless nonentity to him, as pathetic as that sounds. He obviously knew and disliked the person he slept with. Ergo, it was Madison. So, he didn't lie. He did exactly what she asked. She didn't ask for a name, so he did nothing wrong.

And if anyone (although I'm sure it will happen tons) rages that he cheated on her, I will scream. Veronica said it, I think Logan said it, Madison said it ... THEY WERE SPLIT UP! It is not even a question.

I don't know, this was good, I actually thought it was really good -- even the feminazi's were okay. And I know I say that I'm a happy camper if it makes sense and there is logic, and I bought all that happened, but still, why can't we just have them happy like they were here more than one episode? Furthermore, when they're together, why can't we see the passion?!? I think I'm just too emotional now, I think I'll have a better perspective later.
 
 
 
secrets_and_liesecrets_and_lie on January 31st, 2007 03:49 am (UTC)
I did like that we saw them cuddling, but why is it so impossible for this show to us their passion, as opposed to us just having to hope they have it. I mean, two small pecks in the whole episode?

Four words: John Kretchmer strikes again. Gah. I almost threw something at the screen. I now have an image of the guy as completely passionless. Probably terrible in bed. Just does NOT get sexual tension. Probably pecks his wife on the cheek.

Agreed on all fronts, BTW. I thought this episode was really good. Though, as you said, V was way too cheery. My husband commented on her over-perkitude, in fact.
Arabian: Doylearabian on January 31st, 2007 03:51 am (UTC)
I actually had a rant about John Kretchmer originally, (okay one line), but decided to save it for the analysis, where it will definitely be more than one line. Why oh why couldn't Nick Marck have directed THIS episode with Kretchmer directing the next one?!?!?
Annieannie_oakley on January 31st, 2007 04:12 am (UTC)
I groaned when I saw that he directed it, because I knew from the promos we got a scene of them in bed, and I knew the second I saw his name that it wouldn't get a chance to be hot.

But they spooned! Spooned like two little spoons. It was adorable.

White-hot passion however, (maybe with Veronica up against a wall or such and clothes being ripped off) would be better.
Arabian: TVarabian on January 31st, 2007 04:18 am (UTC)
Yeah, me too. Just, UGH!!! Why him!??! I swear to God if we get another bed scene before the end of the season, if it's Kretchmer directing again I will scream!!!!!!!!

And I'm sorry, maybe I could be okay with the lack of passion if we didn't see Logan hot and heavy with OTHER girls!!! From the preview, we're definitely getting that with Madison, and it's SO frustrating. It's like Rob and/or La Bell doesn't believe that Veronica should be shown passionately, and so Rob thinks that as long as he shows JD in passionate makeout scenes with other females, it will do the trick. Maybe for some people, but not most. It just makes it THAT much more obvious what we're NOT getting with Logan/Veronica.

The spooning was adorable, though, I do agree.
secrets_and_liesecrets_and_lie on January 31st, 2007 04:29 am (UTC)
Yeah, the spooning moment made me melt into a little puddle of sweetness. Especially Logan cuddling, with all it implies. Just... awww.

And that's actually kind of atypical for Kretchmer, he of the kiss-while-sitting-as-far-apart-on-the-bench-as-possible and the infamous postcoital-lie-beside-each-other-staring-at-the-ceiling blocking. They were actually CLOSE. And looked like they knew each other! *gasp*

I just hope when V & L reunite again (after the now-inevitable breakup), someone ELSE is directing that episode. Pretty please with sugar on top?
Arabian: Hot!Hot!Hot!arabian on January 31st, 2007 05:24 am (UTC)
God, I know, please, please, please let someone direct!!! I gotta say you're the first person who seems to share in my Kretchmer directing-LoVe hate. I ranted about him in NitW and in WW. (If you're interested just click on chemistry and read those two episode entries.)
(Anonymous) on January 31st, 2007 06:56 am (UTC)
I was so hoping Michael Fields would direct this episode (he directed 216 and 220 which were awesome). I don't like Kretchmer either. But I heard that the cast likes him. I hate him for messing up OMG!SWAY, don't even get me started on the sex scene in WW which could have been so much better. But I loved the cuddling scene, it was sweet and they actually touched and kissed.

I loved this episode. I was spoiled so I knew the whole Madison/Logan hook-up. I hate the arc but it is going better than I thought it would. And I hate the stupid promo monkeys. I'm guessing the "I'm pregnant" thing is related to the MOTW. How they think this will attract viewers is beyond me.

Anyway, sorry for rambling too much, I hope this doesn't sound stalker-y but I like reading you reviews.
secrets_and_liesecrets_and_lie on January 31st, 2007 01:29 pm (UTC)
I didn't notice Kretchmer's lack of passion until Not Pictured. Those damned hallway kisses, which were sweet but not intense. After they (and we!) had been waiting ALL SEASON to kiss, we get a shower of pecks? This is why so many fans thought this couldn't possibly be their actual reunion moment. And I lay the blame completely at Kretchmer's feet.

I had a discussion back around WW or maybe MBFGRW, I think with sowell, about the lack of touching between L & V now that they're together. I said to wait till a different director comes along. And as soon as one did, we got WL, which was SO much more satisfying on that level. Of course it had that great kiss at the end, but the beginning scene also had some real warmth and physicality.

So yeah, I'm definitely in the anti-Kretchmer camp. I think his directing is fine overall (well, with one or two other big caveats I won't get into right now), but he lacks this rather important element, for some strange reason.
tigereyes320tigereyes320 on January 31st, 2007 04:07 am (UTC)
I have to admit
I loved this episode, the one part that kind of was weird was when Veronica was givning Keith pelvic thrusting lessons.

I thought the look on Keith's face when Veronica said she was meeting 2 hookers over at Logans was priceless.

How funny was her "honey" when Logan said "since we're paying her anyways. . ."

I know what's going to happen but i have to say I kind of liked the way they had the true confession moment, I liked Veronica's reason for asking.

Arabian: We got promo baby!arabian on January 31st, 2007 04:19 am (UTC)
Re: I have to admit
The Veronica/Keith scene with the pelvic thrust was disturbing and really kinda sick. Yes, Keith's face was funny, but Veronica shouldn't have been talking about that with her FATHER!

How funny was her "honey" when Logan said "since we're paying her anyways. . ."

I know what's going to happen but i have to say I kind of liked the way they had the true confession moment, I liked Veronica's reason for asking.


Agreed with both.

Stephanie: VL dancestephanierb on January 31st, 2007 04:31 am (UTC)

Is it me or was Kristen Bell REALLY over-the-top through much of episode?

It isn't you.

The smile on Logan's face when Max/Chelsea reunited was so sweet and so happy for them.

I loved that, too. It was such a sweet side of Logan, being happy for someone who isn't a part of his limited inner circle.

The sex talk between Keith/Veronica in both scenes was just wrong. They're father/daughter. The first scene talking about the hookers was verging on ick, but the stripper pelvic thrust motion? Way uncomfortable and over the line.

I actually thought the bit about the hookers was funny. She's totally pulling his leg and it didn't ick me at all.

The pelvic thrust bit, however, most certainly did ick me. That was wrong on so many levels.

Lousy discussion for post-coital. I did like that we saw them cuddling, but why is it so impossible for this show to us their passion, as opposed to us just having to hope they have it. I mean, two small pecks in the whole episode?

I would love to see more passion between these two, but I was very satisfied with this scene. I thought last week's reunion kiss was all kinds of hot, so this sweeter, more loving scene between them really worked for me. I particularly liked the kiss at the end because it was both passionate and loving.

I hear you on the lack of passion, though. I could go for another backseat makeout session, minus the flashback element of course. These two definitely have it, the writers and directors just to need show it.

How can Veronica not know that Logan is that smitten with her ... that Logan loves her MORE than Max does Wendy? Seriously.

I think I missed something. When did Veronica give the impression that she didn't know how much Logan cared for her? Was it because she bought lingerie?

He obviously knew and disliked the person he slept with. Ergo, it was Madison. So, he didn't lie. He did exactly what she asked. She didn't ask for a name, so he did nothing wrong.

While he was sufficiently vague, I think he was referring more to the surfer girl than Madison. He looked pretty disgusted and while he and Madison aren't BFF, I think he likes her enough to hang out with her. I think he most definitely regrets it, and probably does view Madison as just another hook-up, but I got the impression that he intentionally omitted their night together because of Veronica's reaction earlier. I thought his reaction to Veronica's declaration about Madison was perfect, actually. He had enough of an 'Oh, shit' look on his face to convince me he had no idea how much she hated Madison. If he had, he would've looked guilty.

I was spoiled for all of this and I have to say that so far I'm okay with how it's playing out. I'm not happy about it, exactly, but it's working for me.
Arabian: Look of LoVearabian on January 31st, 2007 05:29 am (UTC)
I particularly liked the kiss at the end because it was both passionate and loving.

My bad, I actually somehow forgot that kiss. I liked that one lots.

How can Veronica not know that Logan is that smitten with her ... that Logan loves her MORE than Max does Wendy? Seriously.

I think I missed something. When did Veronica give the impression that she didn't know how much Logan cared for her? Was it because she bought lingerie?


The comment she made to Wendy about how do you get a guy to be that smitten with you, it just really sounded to me like Veronica didn't get that Logan was even more hung up on her and I was like WHAT!?!?

He obviously knew and disliked the person he slept with. Ergo, it was Madison. So, he didn't lie. He did exactly what she asked. She didn't ask for a name, so he did nothing wrong.

---------------

While he was sufficiently vague, I think he was referring more to the surfer girl than Madison. He looked pretty disgusted and while he and Madison aren't BFF, I think he likes her enough to hang out with her. I think he most definitely regrets it, and probably does view Madison as just another hook-up, but I got the impression that he intentionally omitted their night together because of Veronica's reaction earlier.


I think he omitted her name, but I'm sure he was talking about Madison. Maybe I'll be proven wrong -- won't be the first time, but the fact that it certainly sounded like he knew the person made me think it was Madison. He didn't know surfer skank to think that little about her. It sounded totally like someone he knew.

I thought his reaction to Veronica's declaration about Madison was perfect, actually. He had enough of an 'Oh, shit' look on his face to convince me he had no idea how much she hated Madison. If he had, he would've looked guilty.

Right, I agree with that completely.

I was spoiled for all of this and I have to say that so far I'm okay with how it's playing out. I'm not happy about it, exactly, but it's working for me.

Me too. I don't like this arc, but they are doing it well so far. I just don't think it's fucking necessary. Maybe Rob will prove me wrong at the end of the season, he did actually reference payoff recently, but I'm not holding my breath.
too much going on omg: v/logan stadiumdiamondrocker on January 31st, 2007 05:12 am (UTC)
You and me are pretty much likethis about this ep. I thought it was pretty great, apart from the Madison part. Just, why?

Is it me or was Kristen Bell REALLY over-the-top through much of episode? Almost every line was delivered as if she was on uppers, a reduced form of uppers, but none-the-less ...

YES! I really noticed it in the beginning and in that scene with Keith where he sings.. it felt forced a lot of the time. Like she was trying too hard to be funny or quirky or whatever.

And the pelvic thrust thing? I'm pretty damn easy going and open, but even that made me cringe a little. Just, no.

Logan smiling while watching the reunion was BEYOND adorable. How I love him.

And double takes will never not be funny.

I have to admit. I was waiting for the bomb to drop between V and Logan during the whole ep - waiting for that fight that they showed in the previews. But, it never came...? I was really nervous during that post-coital talk, but then Veronica smiled, and I was no longer afraid.... until the previews. Again. Oy.

Soap much?

But all in all, thumbs up for this one.
Arabian: Stairsarabian on January 31st, 2007 05:30 am (UTC)
Agreed all around! Amen!
Moi Mobiasmoimobias on January 31st, 2007 05:33 am (UTC)
I actually love this idea of Madison coming back not because I like the what Logan did (not hardly!) but it doesn't bother me AT ALL either... here is why...Madison has always ...I repeat ALWAYS reminded me of Lilly Kane.
Now (crackles knuckles) this could be awesome because Veronica hates one, and worships the other when essentially they seem to have a lot in common....rich, blond, bitches who sleep with everybody (older men too, Lamb for Madison and Aaron for Lilly) and yet Veronica doesn't see that connection.

So Logan sleeping with Madison (and yes I agree she was the nameless person he deeply regretted).... is a lot like him sleeping with Lilly. And I hope this the is point of the reveal...

I loved so much of the episode tonight though. V/L were watching "Sense and Sensibility"!!! Yeah for yet another Jane Austen reference. That so rocked.
Logan's "you can have my turn" was adorable.... cuddling was adorable (yet not the best part" and when Veronica actually returned Logan's "Do you still love me?" I was so proud of her!!! I mean I guess the bar is pretty low for her...but whatever I still happy she finally got there. (Kind of like how a mark of Dick's maturity is that when he said the Veronica Mars character brought Logan he didn't say...AGAIN... haha... )

Anyway... I thought it was all Grrrrrrrrrreat~!
Arabian: Logan Testingarabian on January 31st, 2007 05:39 am (UTC)
I think when I can just sit down and rewatch their scenes without wondering how it will play out, etc., you'll see A LOT of happiness and squeeing in my analysis + picspam!!

And that's a REALLY interesting take on Madison/Lilly, sadly I don't think RT will go there, but it's a great thought.
zellie: tv : vmars [reunited]leucocrystal on January 31st, 2007 06:05 am (UTC)
Just finished watching, and I was really surprised by how much I loved it.

I know you all seem to be agreeing that the bedroom scene was really flat, but for me it accomplished more than I was expecting after reading this entry.

We've seen plenty of passion between them in the past, and even at the end of last week.  In my opinion, (as I've seen a lot of people out there wondering if they should still be together) we sorely needed to see a much more loving, intimate side to their relationship.  The first arc showed how comfortable they can be together, with all the nice little moments we got to see between them.  We got to see passion and longing last week, and now we get to see something much stronger.  I personally loved the whole scene.  I'll get into this a lot more (I'm sure) in my own entry.

I loved the ep.  Wow.  I really wasn't expecting to.  Logan was being hot and adorable ALL over the place, and it was driving me crazy (in the very good way).  That always adds a lot to an episode for me, because I am goddamn shallow. ;)
Arabian: Reunitedarabian on January 31st, 2007 06:14 am (UTC)
Oh, no I loved the scene in the bedroom. I'm just frustrated that yet again we are being denied seeing the passionate side of their relationship. Trust me, come analysis time, I'll be raving about it. I didn't think it flat at all, I just wish that we could get some of the passion so it wasn't so conspicuously missing ... esp. when the preview showed Madison on top of Logan and them clearly in a passionate, sexual situation.

I loved what we got, but I'm just getting awfully tired of what we don't get and it's fairly obvious that things go downhill yet again so we will continue to not get it.
zellie: tv : vmars [spinning]leucocrystal on January 31st, 2007 06:26 am (UTC)
I guess I can see that.  Maybe I just don't mind as much because... we already know it's there.  I'd prefer actual, emotional, poignant scenes like the one we got, rather than re-hashing what we already know is there.

I mean, hell, I'd never say no to a passionate scene between them (HELL no!), but what we got was worth way more to me, especially with the timing.
Arabian: Newton's 2nd Lawarabian on January 31st, 2007 12:18 pm (UTC)
I agree it is worth more. It's not really my problem that we don't get it with LV -- although, yes, I would love it! -- it's that we DO get it with Logan/other chicks, and what that does is make it look like the passion isn't there anymore now that they're together and that is what is disappointing.
WeHo M.: Lyrics - Breathe Meafrocurl on January 31st, 2007 06:39 am (UTC)
I'm currently rewatching that bedroom scene, and I'm not hating it. I don't know why, but it sort of works for me.

I mean, sure, it's an awkward moment to have that conversation, but Logan's already expressed how much he hated the idea of the conversation works.

I'm happy otherwise.
Arabian: Hot!Hot!Hot!arabian on January 31st, 2007 12:19 pm (UTC)
I loved the scene, I just want some passion. Honestly, a super-hot kiss instead of the barely touching each other's lips after Veronica put her arms around his neck would have been enough.
Holly: L/V NP hallway two of a kindholly96 on January 31st, 2007 07:17 am (UTC)
Is it me or was Kristen Bell REALLY over-the-top through much of episode? Almost every line was delivered as if she was on uppers, a reduced form of uppers, but none-the-less ...
I really only noticed it in the scenes with Keith, and there I totally agree. But I have to place at least as much blame, maybe more, on the writing. She could probably dial it down a little in those scenes, but with the material they're giving her, I'm not really sure I can blame her too much.

Veronica's hair looked pretty bland through most of the episode and Amanda Noret (Madison) not looking good, that haircut? Ugh. That first outfit?
I actually muched preferred Veronica's hair in this episode to the beauty pageant hair we had been getting. But yes, Madison's haircut is awful, which is sad, because Amanda is actually really beautiful, but that haircut is just not flattering on her, at all.

He was totally talking about Madison.
I agree. What seals it for me is that they had just seen Madison and he had just heard Veronica say how much she despises Madison. It makes sense that his hookup with Madison would be on his mind.
Arabian: Epicarabian on January 31st, 2007 12:21 pm (UTC)
I dunno, Holly, we're gonna have to agree to disagree because I was thinking that BEFORE the first Keith/Veronica scene took place. Was it especially noticeable there? Yes. But it was throughout the episode for me and apparently a few others.

Gonna have to disagree about the hair also. The bangs to the side like that, the lack of anything, just ugh.

He was totally talking about Madison.

-----------------

I agree. What seals it for me is that they had just seen Madison and he had just heard Veronica say how much she despises Madison. It makes sense that his hookup with Madison would be on his mind.


Yup, exactly. So he did NOT lie.
harper47harper47 on January 31st, 2007 01:39 pm (UTC)
I'm going to chime in on the Bell acting and sadly, I have to agree that she was over the top in places - notably the Keith scene - and it just took me out of the episode. I did like the fact that she continued to be likable and to me this shows that no matter what Rob said in that interview, he did hear all the commentary about how unlikable Veronica came off in the fall and he made changes.

That was, by far, one of the most encouraging things I've seen lately.

Still, acting wise - what were the writers thinking when they wrote the Keith/Veronica scenes. This show used to be known as the show who had the best portrayal of a father/daughter relationship out there. Remember all the comments from season one? My mind just boggles at what exactly they wree going for. A cheap laugh? Because while the amuse me line was amusing, it wasn't worth over the top jazz hands.

I liked the episode. It didn't own me as much as Show me the Monkey and I'm a bit tired of sex related storylines but Max was likable and endearing and as a BSG fan, I enjoyed the comments (although I think we've gone too far into BSG commentary land. Time to introduce other fandoms people. They do exist. To have every college geek by BSG fixated is a little too much for me.) Still it was terrific to get cuddling and intimacy and I for one am very, very happy about the reveal.

I was expecting to see Logan lie and Veronica ride off on a righteous high horse to Sir Piz the Honest while Logan is painted in bad boy glitter. But this - he was honest. He told her. He may not have said the name, but this seemed fairly obvious to me. I still expect Veronica to ride off - after all the promo monkeys have already shown us the scene - but I can live with this. Hey - I was on Ross' side during the whole "We were on a break" scenario so this is a no-brainer for me.
Arabian: PC_Totally My Heroarabian on January 31st, 2007 10:29 pm (UTC)
Yup.

(Sorry, I got bad news and just don't have more in me.)